Nintendo Files Patent To Combat Online Cheating And Software Modification

Well… RIP to people that modded their systems to play with skins online.

Well, it's Nintendo statement "DON'T YOU DARE MODDING OUR GAMES AS YOUR DESIRE!"

heck yea this is gonna be good

Lets see how people blow Nintendo protecting thier own IP out of proportion...

Their online track record is abysmal. Maybe they'll put forth more effort into this but I'd be shocked if it proved to be anything more than just a small bump in the road for those who are determined to hack / mod their games.

If they're not used to gain an advantage, I see no reason for Nintendo to try to stop modders...

Every top 16 competitor in the trainers cup IV was caught cheating. It’s about ruddy well time.

As long as you aren't modding for financial gain i don't get what the problem is. Same with roms. If it's for your own personal use and not trying to sell the modded games or systems it's not really hurting anyone. Besides the mod cops aren't going to go door to door asking if you've been modding or using rooms. They've got way bigger fish to fry.

Seems fine on paper but I'm worried if people that have modded Switches will be affected.

See, this is why I don't mod my Nintendo systems at least until after they stop receiving updates....

@Truegamer79

It's exactly because of the financial gain.

@Truegamer79
The problem is that for every innocent user who is using mods to play harmless homebrew games there are thousands who are using a modded switch to play free Switch games that are leaked to the Internet early.

stopping online cheating: 😀
stopping software modding: 😡

Stop piracy. Yes, they should.

Splatoon 1 and 2 along with Mario kart 8 on both systems had modders that would ruin matches... I see no issue with this with that context

I hate defending the actions of a soulless corporation, especially when it could affect the home brew/modding scene, but Treasure Islands not only ruined the Animal Crossing economy, but also the game for me. I would never use a Treasure Island and yet any time that I try to grind for bells I feel stupid and like I’m wasting my time because all it would take for me to have max bells is a five minute trip to a hacked island. I literally haven’t touched the game in months, didn’t even finish the DLC.

This is fine for me if this ever goes through. Sucks for "innocent" modders but modding from a security perspective could still potentially lead to exploitable vulnerabilities either in the system or in-game. Which in turn could expose exploits that can lead to cheating. It's an endless cycle. Like I said a bazillion times, there are more modders with the goal of cheating and pirating than modders that actually just want to enjoy homebrew and Nintendo are weighing their options from that.

hm not sure how this ended up as a patent. It is fairly common practice, especially for android APKs. Maybe the technique is slightly different than usual.

@Zyph "there are more modders with the goal of cheating and pirating than modders that actually just want to enjoy homebrew"

@steventonysmith "for every innocent user who is using mods to play harmless homebrew games there are thousands who are using a modded switch to play free Switch games"

Do you guys have a source for this information?

I hope it goes through.

This articles comment section shows how little people know about the homebrew and modding scene for the NS

@Richnj
Just the thousands of people on twitch who magically stream a game days if not weeks before it comes out and they are not a reviewer

@HisashiASM
Go homebrew the Wii U and leave the Switch alone until it's off the market. I would love to believe all modders have a good innocent intentions but many do not

@steventonysmith Again, citation needed, unless you are referring to the influencers who get sent early copies because it helps promote and advertise the game.

@Richnj
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/02/nintendo-hacker-gary-bowser-sentenced-to-three-years-in-jail

Also Nintendo needs zero help from Streamers to promote their games. I know that's what people on Twitch chant up themselves but Nintendo's IPs need zero promotion, especially this generation, to sell like gangbusters.

Haha a company that can't implement a simple message friends feature in 2022 is going to try and OUTSMART hackers? Hahaha oh boy..

It's a massive shame they don't implement something that causes your system to implode if you ever hack into it.

@steventonysmith You're claim was that the bad modders heavily outnumber the good ones. You provided an article showing one guy. You have zero evidence, so just say "No".

"Nintendo's IPs need zero promotion"

You are clearly delusional. Nintendo has ads, on TV, and youtube, and social media. They spent over $700m in advertising in 2021.

Just take a good look at Splatoon 1...oh boy, I sure never want to touch that game again...

This is just an ordinary anti-cheat system that every game has. Moving on.

I just want to play Smash Bros. with custom skins and music. It's Nintendo's fault for not giving Luigi a Mr. L skin or having Port Town Aero Dive's music available to use in the stage.

Cheating ruins games. Splatoon was ruined because of it.

@Richnj
https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchPirates/

Given there's 100,000 members of the Switch Piracy reddit, I think it's fair to say that's the majority use case.

@Richnj
Coca Cola and Pepsi spend big money advertising too, why? Nobody knows

Not sure why everyone is all on the "Oh crap Nintendo going after the modding and homebrew scene." Nope, they're not but if Nintendo is going to embrace online multiplayer focus games like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Splatoon 3, Mario Striker: Battle League, and Nintendo Switch Sports then of course they'll had to create an anti-cheat solution for those otherwise any online multiplay fun from these games could likely be ruin by online cheaters and hackers. This patent is just that.

@steventonysmith Probably because Coca Cola and Pepsi both spend big money on advertising. If one stopped, the other would eventually start to become the defacto "coke" brand, and it would affect sales. You think the marketing team is there like "we need to spend $4bn in advertising, but we don't know why"?.

@JaxonH Well that assumes that I think pirating is inherently bad. There's 117k in the Switch Hacks Reddit, that's more than 99.9k pirates. So I think assuming that pirating is the majority case use would be incorrect.

But again, out of those how do you tell how many are ruining online experiences, and how many are just having fun with the device and software that they legally own?

@steventonysmith the reason we mod the system is not to ammuse piracy, Note that Atmosphere has yet to make anything to assist the reading of XCI files. Not sure if you care to research, but maybe you should before picking on a real group of people with good intentions.

@Richnj
Your presupposition is faulty, assuming the two are mutually exclusive. Nearly every pirate will also follow hacks which come along with it. The overlap will be severe. And that's also not aggounting for the fact joining a subreddit for a known criminal activity isn't something everyone will do, so that number likely underrepresented the pirates as well.

Idk how many are ruining experiences, but I know it's enough that experiences do get ruined.

@Yorumi
That seems a little premature to declare. We don't yet know how well this works because we don't know much about it. Clearly they believe it has potential or they wouldn't be patenting it.

As for dedicated servers, I'm not sure. I understand how a client side server allows them access to say, "I have infinite defense" or whatever, but that's on the PC side. On consoles things work a bit differently, since files are hacked first and then they join online. No hacking is occurring during play, so servers shouldn't make a difference one way or the other. I also suspect it's cost-prohibitive given how few games do it, and AFAIK those games still have issues with cheaters.

But it's something to look into

HomeBrew here they come - I figure they would come around to this.

@HisashiASM
No I haven't researched how to mod my Switch. I instead am an adult, with a full time job who can afford my hobby and so far to date have bought 317 digital games for my Switch. I honestly sincerely hope Nintendo maintains, or increase the pressure on not only the Switch modding community but the entire ROM community. Grow up and if you can't afford the hobby of video gaming, go buy a dollar store box of crayons and take up a more affordable hobby

I just love how people are going "Nintendo is after mods and homebrews" instead of, y'know, using their head a little bit, read the article and realize this is just a counter measure for online cheating.

@Yorumi you mention that you don’t like Nintendo wasting money with things like this, personally I blame people who give them reason to have to do it. That’s seems like bad logic to blame Nintendo when they wouldn’t do it if they didn’t have too. Plus you mention things like this are universally hated when I think it’s great and i don’t believe I am the only one.
I do feel it is a shame that there are similarities in what is done to ‘mod’ systems and to ‘hack’ them, consequentially the get grouped together by people with opinions like me.

I never understood trying to mod in online to get benefits. All I knew is that people like putting Shrek into Mario Kart 🤷

@Yorumi
It's an interesting suggestion, but ultimately I think you may be overstating the effectiveness and simplicity of such a solution, while it's drawbacks also need to be discussed.

Per Bohemia Interactive on this very topic:

He says he and Bohemia Interactive operate under two rules in regards to cheating, that "anything on the client can be and will be hacked" and that "server side code is only as secure as the server."

"The best solution would be to run everything server side, which we cannot do for the most part," he says

Having all the files for a game on the developer's server would prevent most cheats, although Harton cautions that this method still leaves open the "possibility of packet injection and manipulation." If there's nothing to detect the manipulation of the encrypted packet data moving between server and client in place, cheaters could trick the server into thinking the character on the client has more health than it actually does. Moving everything server-side also brings us into the thorny bounds of heavy Digital Rights Management, of course, but Harton seems to believe that players have a while before they have to worry about that, owing to the current limitations of internet latency and speed.

So they acknowledge the benefits it could bring, but also point out its simply not a viable option. Furthermore, the player forfeits more control (and thus ownership) of the software. Doesn't seem like a very good tradeoff. If it was the magic bullet you suggest, and was easy and cheap without any downsides, everyone would be doing it. Yet hardly anyone does. Nintendo is not an outlier here.

Shrug.

Fair enough.

@steventonysmith
Not sure if you know this, but most people who make a living also have the luxary of doing things with their leasure. My time outside of my job (mil) is spent modifying the game Super Smash Bros. My mods I use and create are ONLY used inside my friend and peer groups with the most I do online being in arenas. Just because you purchase games doesn't mean you walk on water either. So instead get your self proclaimed adult self out of an argument you are too "adult and rich" to research and go do your job, as you say you do.
TLDR:

• the switch modding community != the download of illegal roms
• the switch modding community's subredits biggest rule is to NOT mention anything about piracy, else you will be banned from that community
• modding != cheating, if modding didn't happen, games like League of Legends, CS:Go and many more would not exist, as those were started with mods of other titles.
  Grow up and stop flexing material things to win arguments.

✅️GOOD!

The main reason I stopped playing GTA5: Online (after many years) on PS3 was because by mid-2017, it had gotten ridiculous by how many were invincible/invisible so there was no point.

In the earlier days, there were a few here and there but at my end, the servers were saturated with 🔔🔚s.

'Battlefield 1943' NEVER suffered with cheaters but by the above time mentioned, the regular level 50 players knew all my hiding spots.

I sold my 160GB PS3: Slim in August 2017 and still miss it to this day...

@Richnj Unfortunately I can't cite you any sources aside from just giving out a generalized opinion. I'm sure it's the same on the other side of the argument. Though as a former software dev and currently a cybersecurity specialist I think I can give a valid opinion on the matter to an extent. I dabbled extensively with homebrew back in the 3DS and Wii days and tried to code apps myself although just personal, run of the mill projects.
What we could find on the internet are articles related to rampant piracy on Nintendo systems especially the use of flash carts and softmods. One of the ways they they could exploit the systems is by using tools and exploits created by the homebrew community (shocking!). I should know because I did it too. Thousands (or maybe millions I don't know) of illegal rom downloads versus the number of people in the homebrew community. I am inclined to lean towards the former in terms of number. I'll leave it at that.

Good. Play the game a it’s intended or don’t play the game online

@HisashiASM
Again you modding Smash does nothing to advance the gaming scene. It reeks of not being able to let go and try a wide range of games. Also you don't have the right to Mod any game unless the developers officially release modding tools for it. So again I hope Nintendo cracks down hard on modders and pirates because as far as I'm concerned you are all the same

@steventonysmith
You are the same type of person to not support the right to repair because "apple devs intended for you to purchase another model". I spent MY money on the title, I have the right to do with it as I please. ME modding Smash is MY choice, just as it is for YOU to undertalk me for making that choice. You are disgusting, good bye.

@HisashiASM
You can repair whatever you want as long as when you ever sell your old equipment you let the buyer know an amateur repaired it. As far as software you are not entitled to mod it

@Yorumi
No it's not perfectly legal. But young children and child like adults believe this

@Richnj Dude, stop defending hackers. I think Nintendo should allow modding but most of those who "homebrew" their switch is pretty clear what they do it for. You owning the game doesn't give you permission to modify another illegal version that you do not own. That's like saying I have a job so I can accept drug money.

@Zyph I agree. I modded my 3DS in 2018 and there was like 3 programs that were legit "Homebrew" whilst there were hundreds that allowed you to download "free" ROMs and others that modified games like Pokemon games to make them shiny or whatever stats you wanted or whatever. Where's the Homebrew community these people claim and all the amazing legit mods?
Their defense is always the same. I own the game so I'm going to modify an illegal version because of XYZ companies restrictions.

@Yorumi So your defense is because a criminal is not caught that its legal?

LOL.

@IBananaI
I am not gate keeping anything, I am just cheering on Nintendo and every other game developers efforts to put pressure on people hacking, and modding the stuff they worked hard on. Every story I see of another idiotic "fan" game getting shutdown because they are blatantly using Nintendo IPs or a website with illegal ROMs I get very happy is all. Also welcome to Nintendo Life

@Yorumi @HisashiASM Do you people hear what you're saying?

I'll return your argument with this. Why don't you hire 50 people for 5 years to make a multi-million dollar game and I'll buy one copy on sale for $10 then mod 10 others versions to give to friends. Literally, I code so all I have to do is change a few lines and its "modded". But hey, don't sue me. ITS LEGAL. LOL.

At best your arguments applies to the COPY you purchased...you are entitled to buy ingredients to make your own dish but what right are you entitled to download another illegal copy using third party tools you did not built for modding? Why not actually change the code of the original copy yourself just as you would USE the ingredient you bought for lunch to make food?

Last I check you don't get unlimited loaf of bread for free just because you purchased one copy.

@SNES64DD
I love this! Plus my favorite thing is people think that they can download ROMs at will because Nintendo won't rerelease a game they like. That is such flawed logic

@steventonysmith Yes. Like you own one unmodified copy does not entitled you another. I don't think these people understand that buying anything is based off a license. When you buy a loaf of bread, the licence gives you right to consume or modify said bread, it DOES NOT give you right to reverse engineer it or access to the factory to produce more...unless that WAS what was promised in the licence like Charlie the Chocolate factory.

EDIT: The whole point of IP protection is that everything one person makes IS owned by said person and one can sell it in whole or part. Nintendo sold us a licence to PLAY the game on said platform. Just as the bread company sold us a loaf of bead to eat or make into something else.

@steventonysmith Or they say because Nintendo isn't re-releasing it, that they are entitled to download an illegal copy to play because "you literally can't access it elsewhere" or "you literally can't buy it anywhere". WTF?
I wonder, do they demand KFC for their secret spices and ingredients every time they go to KFC?
Do they ask to visit the factories in China every time they buy a phone or whatever that is made there?
Do they demand to speak with the fashion designer who made their favourite clothes that they purchased from a retail outlet. Better still do they expect that dresses personally designed for celebrities should be made available to the public?
Afterall, "you literally can't buy it anywhere", right?

I mean, what they are saying literally DOES NOT make sense anywhere else.

@SNES64DD
I think they ultimately want the World governments involved to regulate the games industry. They aren't satisfied with the way the companies are self policing so....

@steventonysmith Well I'm a socialist and I think markets should be policed but there is a difference between literal IP theft and sharing (common) knowledge so we all get smarter.

Like if we all know how to make a loaf of bread, that's great but saying that because I can make bread and so can you means I'm entitled to your secret recipe is two different things.

You can learn programming. You can make your own games. If given the right, we can mod other people's games and maybe design our own spinoffs using it...but everything is rent/sold in part or whole as a licence.

I actually believe in blockchains and I hope Nintendo games in the future will allow us to buy and sell our own mini-creations...could be pretty cool in Animal Crossing and I think the concept was even talked about by Reggie recently when promoting his new book.

That's the irony of this. He was the head of Nintendo of America. So what does it say about Nintendo's direction with gaming? I could go deeper and in fact I think the world has been lied to by certain forces but I don't really want to drag politics into this.

All I'll say is this, countries like China get bashed all the time for making cheap crap and stealing IP....ironic when you look at their history and pretty much every major thing was invented/developed or conceptualized there. I'm not saying these things don't happen. I'm also not saying other people can't design/invented/developed/conceptualized things.

Yet the difference is you don't see certain people claiming other groups only ever "stole" ideas from them when sometimes it literally came from them. They don't go around claiming other groups to be some "great threat" to their world of existence and if they did, they defended themselves not invaded their enemies.

I remember everyone making and having comments about my background when I was kid/teen. Whether it was because I'm from HK and "whitewashed/not Chinese" or the best example I could give was how one kid said "Oh you Chinese people invented gunpower by accident but we whites took in a step further and develop guns".

Sigh.

And then the other kids would conceptualize and debate how white people were monsters for doing this.

If only they knew the first firearms came from China.

Simply put, our development of humanity was taken over and over taken by the Western World in the late Ming Dynasty to today.

The point is that we focus on the wrong *****. Sony and Microsoft is not necessarily the villain.

Yet, I actually always look at the history of Nintendo as a great reflection of what happened in Asia. PlayStation and Xbox came in and overtook the industry and kids grew up thinking this was the "normal way" of gaming and Nintendo were the quirky ones who did things weirdly because they are "Japanese"...

If you look hard enough though and think about it, Nintendo is actually the defacto standard who is trying to do the "right thing" for the whole industry. They try to make games that don't need 1 hour installations and updates and run smoothly/immediately without too much loading time without trying to sell you the latest SSD technology. NSO is no GamePass but its not here to devalue full retail games into nothing (like I don't even buy AAA anymore when you can get it for $15 a month) and instead offer a slice of the pie if you have the full game. All of these things are quite fair from an industry perspective and make sense in the environment that we are in.

That's why sometimes they seem slow or unmoving. Other times innovative. And mostly just...weird.

Oh and they get bashed lots.

@steventonysmith Ahaha. Sorry for the essay btw. I guess sometimes I wonder why everyone is all sunshine and rainbows with PS and Xbox and just criticise everything Nintendo does. Its so weird.

@SNES64DD
Yet another who doesn't do ANY research whatsoever.
Do YOU actually think I store a Modified version of smash on ANY webserver? No, I use a client that MODIFIES the code upon runtime, I AM NOT PROVIDING ANY OF NINTENDO'S CODE WHATSOEVER, I AM ON GAME START OVERRIDDING LINES WITH MY CODE. PM or Project Melee was closed down due to them providing modified Nintendo code [and even still, that is not enough to make the game bootable, YOU WOULD STILL NEED A LEGAL COPY OF BRAWL]. For my mods, I utilize Skyline and Arcopolis [these find the file or method in code that needs to be overwritten, then it overrides and replaces the output, and if not just that, then we will outright make the return value our own.] Fun fact, this NEEDS a copy of smash TO BE PROVIDED. THE GAME CANNOT BE BUILT FROM MY MODIFICATIONS AND NO TITLE CAN BE LAUNCHED WHATSOEVER. Minecraft is a game that requires you to purchase it to use mods for the game. A decompiled version of the game is created when creating mods [which us in the Smash Modding Community do not have the leisure of having] , and upon build makes a plugin which is started on game boot to allow modification of the game. Learn a little before arguing such... this is why I cannot stand people like you. You do NO research, then proceed to act like some super-authority and all-righteous person.

@Yorumi @HisashiASM LOL! How about you provide proof and do some research yourself?

Music and digital arts are literally stolen by millions of people many are not prosecuted either? Your point?

It never happened before so its legit is your argument?

Where in Nintendo's game licences that you purchased to play the game does it say you can modify said parts or whole of the game?

I'll wait.

You're just beating around the bush saying you're doing all these things then need a "copy of Smash" to be provided to play?

Whether Project Melee needs a copy of the game or not is irrelevant. Buying drugs needs real money? SO WHAT?

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THAT SOME DRUGS LIKE COCAINE ARE ILLEGAL. Whilst others like Panadol are legal.

So what's your point? Since both still require using money to get.

EXACTLY AS YOU SAID: Project Melee was closed down due to them providing modified Nintendo code.

Stop twisting my words and READ the whole picture of what I am saying.

I repeat. NINTENDO DID NOT PROVIDE YOU A LICENCE THAT SAYS YOU CAN MOD THEIR GAME IN ANYWAY.

Not hard to understand.

MineCraft is not Smash.
Just as McDonalds is not Burger King.
Burger King provides free drink refills, McDonalds does not?

So if you took a second drink from McDonalds. ITS ILLEGAL.

Not hard to understand.

@Truegamer79 if u are cheating in online games, it makes it less fun to the vast majority of the gamers who play fairly... Nintendo should absolutely do something to stop people from having advantages in online multiplayer games.

@SNES64DD if u are a socialist, who do u think the victim of "IP theft" is? Socialists believe in community property, or government control, so are u saying someone else is owning these IP's in a socialist world? How's that work? Genuinely curious.

@Blizzia your behaviour really comes off and snobbish smdh

@huyi I don't care.

@twztid13 I've actually given an example already:
"Like if we all know how to make a loaf of bread, that's great but saying that because I can make bread and so can you means I'm entitled to your secret recipe is two different things."

The idea here is that not all knowledge is uncommon and common knowledge is respectfully shared/taught, etc instead of being in the hands of a few. Think how Encyclopedias used to work where knowledge came from expert interpretation to now Wikis where community contribute. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The problem with Wikis is that if the majority were ignorant racists (you'll be surprised), it would be normal to write and give advice that was bias. The other way round is that knowledge is gatekept with experts who know it all and could provide misinformation.

"Socialists believe in community property, or government control, so are u saying someone else is owning these IP's in a socialist world?"
You have to remember that socialism and capitalism is not black at white. Otherwise we would still be slaves...socialism is partly about a class struggle.
In capitalism, your contributions are signed away to be a part of a team. So if you're working for a country or a company, those rights belong to said company or country. You're general compensated money for your work although whether it is fair is up for debate. Only a minority reap the benefits/consequences, that's why everyone remembers Bill Gates or how Steve Jobs got fired from the company he started.
In socialism, your rights remain with your contribution small or big. At least in theory. So if this was a game and you contributed 3 lines of code that no one else can contribute, for example, you're rights are protected and you aren't just simply waived away as a corporate entity that they can fire and give packages to, to silence you.

Those 3 lines of code could save you in a socialist society or get you in a lot of trouble. Whilst in capitalism, the company takes the risks hiring you but it also means they can fire you and take credit for your work under the corporate banner.

Huawei employees for examples are the shareholders of their own company. They are not only paid a salary/wages but also compensated based on contribution. It means you're more responsible for what you output and produce but also reap more benefits.

Its interesting how it work, right? I guess that's probably the difference.

@Yorumi Its funny how you constantly change the argument and move the goalpost and am now pretending that because some law in a country agree/disagree with you that it reflects your argument as a whole. That's like saying some country somewhere still discriminate against LGBT people so its right for us to do so.

What I'm saying is common sense/knowledge and applies to all parties. If you were a digital artist and a company displayed your work WITHOUT your explicit permission, that's theft. Even if they are helping you find clients or promoting your work or even if the law does not necessarily protect you as an individual from this. Its theft.

This rule works the other way round too, a licence is given to you that you agree to when you purchase a product. Its not always fair but if you don't agree with it, you can simply not accept the conditions and ask for a refund.

Again, not hard to understand how it works.

@SNES64DD without getting into an argument, or a deeper discussion, if the CCP, not the Huawei CEO, decides to take the 3 lines of code you mentioned (that a Huawei worker uniquely supplied, & doesn't want used for a particular thing), is there any court or method in China that would prevent this & side with the citizen?

@twztid13 Er...Yes? I never understood the whole idea that China never had courts or rights, etc. Literally, everything from paper money to a court system was either invented or existed in Ancient China. Something the West in the Dark Ages didn't have. This is a famous example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bao_Zheng
The difference is that usually Chinese people believe in dealing with things via solutions instead of arguing and settling in court. If a company were drilling late at night and making a lot of noise, even if they are have a licence to do work during that time, you could write to the company about it and it'll actually get answered by them especially if you are polite and have a solution. Underground YouTubers have made videos stuff like these where they demonstrate in one case, they were given free accommodation at a hotel nearby so his wife can sleep at night. So there wasn't even a need to escalate it to the law.

The fact that every major and minority ethnic group is represented in CPC parliament along with plenty of women should say more then it needs. Also the CPC is larger then the population of Germany if I remember correctly.

Edit: I live in Australia and I don't even know of one aboriginal politician or someone who was black being represented for example.