For some Pokémon players, the art of shiny hunting is a special, sacred activity that can be just as enjoyable – if not more so – than playing the base game itself. Some players spend hundreds of hours hatching eggs, soft-resetting their game when encountering special Pokémon, and more, all in the hopes of tracking down a rare, differently-coloured variant of a particular Pokémon for their digital collection.
It's perhaps understandable, then, that an external device that can completely speed up this process is proving to be quite the talking point. The Switch Up from Collective Minds is a third-party Switch accessory that lets you use your Switch and play some of its biggest games in unusual ways. You can use it to hook up a PlayStation or Xbox controller, for example, or activate a variety of cheats to use in games like Fortnite.
It comes with a variety of 'Modes', each specific to a certain game; Mario, Zelda, and Animal Crossing are all included, as well as Pokémon Sword and Shield. In the latter's case, loading up this 'mode' lets you activate specific mods and make use of a number of automated shortcuts including shiny egg chaining and shiny soft reset chaining.
"SHINY EGG CHAINING: This mod will endlessly chain for eggs from the "Bridge Field" Pokémon Nursery in the Wild Area."
The interesting thing here is that the device is essentially putting in the hard work for you, making the hunt for a special shiny Pokémon significantly easier, but doesn't simply generate a hacked Pokémon that can't be used in official competitions. Instead, no one would ever know that you 'cheated' to get your new shiny Snorlax – the Switch Up just played the game for you while you were off doing better things with your time.
The whole thing has been causing quite the debate over on Reddit, where some players are arguing that saving time and getting shiny Pokémon quickly in their game isn't hurting anyone, while others are suggesting that it cheapens the experience and takes something away from those doing it 'legitimately'.
We can see both points of view, so we'll leave it to you to (calmly) discuss in the comments.
[source reddit.com, via comicbook.com]
Comments 75
lol the narrator keeps saying po-key-mon
Oh so like Lewis Galoob’s Game Genie? Wait for the lawsuit.
This is just like the debates over the Game Genie. If you care about what people do with their games (and no, a palette swap does not affect others in competitive play), YOU are the problem.
So what exactly is this supposed be? A spiritual successor to Game Genie and Action Replay?
Virtually no one in the reddit thread is complaining about it though. As long as they don't flood the GTS/WonderTrade with them I don't think anyone really cares.
I am sure Nintendo already is working on a way to block this through an update or something.
Hot take: it's not worth getting upset about either way.
@CharlieGirl It also isn't hard to identify people who didn't actually read the article.
"The interesting thing here is that the device is essentially putting in the hard work for you, making the hunt for a special shiny Pokémon significantly easier, but doesn't simply generate a hacked Pokémon that can't be used in official competitions. Instead, no one would ever know that you 'cheated' to get your new shiny Snorlax – the Switch Up just played the game for you while you were off doing better things with your time."
What’s the use of a shiny if you didn’t get it through yourself?
It’s literally a bragging right and IMO there’s nothing to brag about if it’s hacked or done through a bot. And people saying it doesn’t affect others, yes it does, shinies for legitimate hunters loose all value when people get it this way.
There’s a reason some shiny breeders and hunters get thousands of viewers in streams.
On another note, I’m 5 shinies removed from a box full of shinies obtained in SWSH, 8 if you don’t count event giveaways.
It's more an issue if these devices are being used for online games, like Splatoon, Smash and Mario Kart.
Is there a mod that expands the storage boxes in-game. I'm sick to my teeth paying a fee to access my collection on pokemon home.
Seems odd, surely makes them less special.
@darkswabber I have a full shiny dex on Sword which I did through a mixture of hunting, trades and bot giveaways. I don't brag and did it because it was fun and I like the way some shinny's look compared to standard.
There was something quite enjoyable when trying to enter the trade code/Dens with online streamers/bots at same time as hundreds of others. Felt like a little competition and the chats were fun for trading too.
Also, I got that Egg to duplicate pokemon/items which I used to help friends or people who wanted something specific. I know its frowned upon but not everyone wants to spend 1000s of hours grinding eggs.
@Zebetite While you're not wrong about Shinies simply being pallette swaps and having no effect on the competitive scene, they still have a perceived value among the trading and collecting camp.
If that wasnt the case, there wouldnt be a mod that tries to remove the grind to obtain one. Conversely, obtaining what's just a "pallette swap" would've just been an in-game option, had the devs wanted it to be so easy.
At the end of the day, sure, do what you want... but own the fact that one's cutting corners, rather than hitting at the folks who disagree with the method.
No part of this can be considered a mod. The device in question is not modifying the system or even reading data.
This is merely an automation tool that's pre-configured to perform a sequence of inputs with breakpoints for user input.
There's nothing dodgy going on here, it's just a device that goes through the motions for you.
There's no complexity to it either, it does not appear to be doing any sort of RNG manipulation, but only seems to be brute-forcing shiny chances the old fashion way.
"Soft reset chaining" is also not a valid term in any sense, any form of resetting will break chaining sequences in any game because you are re-initialising seeds and data.
I'm pretty sure they are just using familiar terms like mods and chaining, albeit incorrectly, because they're familiar.
This has been on the market for quite a while now and I don't see any issue with it. It's not like riding your bicycle in circles for multiple hours is something that requires skill to begin with.
@DTFaux The only value shinies have is what people assign to them. While it's true cosmetics do affect gameplay by increasing player enjoyment, this is cosmetic at the most basic, minimum level. Personally, I can't fathom spending potentially hundreds of hours trying to get a pokemon that has a coloration a few shades off from the norm, as is the case with many pokemon. That is a lot of effort the devs expect from players for a very minor payoff.
A game cheat device is proving to be controversial?! 😳
And the fandom has something to say against "sellout spinoffs" when their answer to a Pokemon MOBA is a Pokemon AFK?😅
@RupeeClock So in the manual for the game it suggests you get something else to input all the controls for you instead of pressing the controls yourself. This thing may not change the game code but then neither did RNG abuse, did you feel that was dodgy? Or would you consider that if I get someone really good at playing online competitive games to play my profile then I could get famous.
As much as I do feel that people can do as they wish, I would be much happier if there was no effect on anybody else.
@CharlieGirl But that's the thing, they are not hacked. They are generated, normally by the game, the device just does all the grinding for you.
There is however a clear difference between this and Fortnite mode which is clearly a cheatmode that gives unfair advantage.
The cheats for Fortnite sound much sketchier to me... playing online against cheaters is so frustrating.
@dew12333
I'll admit this sort of automation is relatively unheard of in console games. I guess the equivalent would be bots in PC games that are designed to idle and farm resources, this has the same end goal.
I don't think calling it a cheat device is fair, as it isn't tampering with the game in any way and is only automating things that a human player is capable of doing.
But it might constitute a lack of or violation fair play, because you are accruing resources without putting your own time into it.
Given that it feeds inputs to a USB port though like a wired USB controller, I don't think Nintendo can quash this unless they can maybe concretely identify the USB device in question and blacklist it, without affecting other devices.
My other thought is that when you get to this point, you need to take a step back and evaluate what you are doing.
Pokémon has become a game of accruing resources of very specific properties, be them specific combinations of IVs, inherited moves, abilities, or the rare chance to have an alternate coloration, and people are willing to invest dozens or hundreds of hours of time trying to get that exact outcome.
That all factors into the competitive aspect of the game, working your hardest to get that competitive advantage, or rather, reach the peak form, the plateau that a Pokémon may achieve.
What was originally conceived as a progression mechanic for a single player adventure has turned into a grind so that you can play competitively, where executing a planned team takes an unreasonable amount of time. This is why services like Pokémon Showdown that bypass this and get straight into battle theory are so popular.
If gameplay is entertaining enough, everybody will happily go through it. When everything is in the reward and not the actual experience, the whole thing becomes "work".
What's the point, then ?
There shouldn't be a debate. You buy a game, you get to experience it however you want. Nobody should gatekeep what counts as a "valid" experience.
I don't really care about cheating like this, where you can't even really tell if someone was cheating, it's not like getting sturdy shedinja or stuff like this.
@Zebetite Sure, it's a lot to expect on the devs' part, but this then turns the debate into a matter of "artistic intent" and whether or not one agrees with that.
Really, the only hill I'm choosing to die on is that I'd rather folks own the action without feeling the need to justify themselves by saying others who care are in the wrong, or trying to devalue the ends to justify the means even though they clearly see value in the ends themselves.
"I want this, and I dont care if you look down on me for how I get it," may be 'politically incorrect', but it's way more honest, IMO.
Wow. This is a CHEAT device, it allows people to cheat in multiplayer fortnite.
Cheating single player offline, is fine.
Cheating multiplayer online is bad bad bad.
I'm not quite sure I get the point of this. Is it so that you can make other players believe you have put in more hours than you have actually done?
@darkswabber bragging about how many shinies you have is pretty pathetic anyway.
If you wanna do the grind you should do it for yourself, not for some fame on the internet.
Basically all this does is add macros to the Switch. While these are complicated macros, that's still all they are, automated inputs. As long as it's not used in an online competitive game (say instant building walls in Fortnite or something), I don't see the harm.
The odds of certain things in video games are absolutely baffling. If the odds are so bad that people are resorting to full-blown automation, then the people making the games need to re-adjust that.
I personally don't care if people use this. It's their prerogative to decide if they care how they got their shinies. I don't have any interest in using it myself because for me, the satisfaction of shiny hunting comes from the work I put in to get the Shiny, not the actual Shiny itself. And that's why I don't care even if people cheat to get shinies. They don't devalue my own because I know I worked for them, and that's satisfaction enough.
But yes, this is totally cheating.
I'll say the same thing that I always say when these discussions happen.
There is no problem with someone cheating, modifying, hacking, or any other kind of manipulation with a single player game. It only becomes a problem when you're playing a multiplayer game and your modification affects another player's experience, without their permission.
@Zebetite
Time over death strategies are more prominent in this game than ever before, so yes the shiny animation does give you an advantage.
I'm just glad I broke free of Pokemon. I love the heart of the series, but reading through this thread really helps me feel like I made the right choice 🤦🏻♂️
the haters are way more of a problem than the people using the Switch up or even PKHex. both r just a means to an end, and in that end, u will not be able to tell where/how someone got a pokemon. yes there r certain things that heavily point to something not being legit, but as long as they are legal.. thats all they do, nothing is 100% proof unless its an illegal pokemon
@Tasuki they'll only go after the ones who are stupid enough to use the save that their doing this online.
either that, or the switch is going to get an update detects and bricks switch's that have one of those plugged into it.
ultimately though, they can't do anything about the shiny pokemon that where made from this thing and traded off for the very same reason why they can't do anything about clones or generated mons. so long as the pokemon is legal or legit, its safe from being detected and purged.
in any case, i'm not getting one. instead its back to wondering from den to den to try and find a shiny vaniluxe while hunting a shiny trubish in pokemon x...
As long as you keep the cheating offline, don't like it don't use it!
From what I'm seeing, this looks less like a cheat device and more of an "Auto-player". It's not changing the ROM or RAM like a Game Genie nor Action Replay, but just sending inputs into the Switch. So while Nintendo can't sue them for copyright infringement like what they did with the former, they COULD sue on the grounds of violating the TOS with the "Unfair Advantage". Ironically, I actually see Epic as the one taking them down because of how it works in Fortnite. Cheesing a Single Player game is one thing, using this in a multiplayer game WITH CROSSPLAY is cheating.
Single player game, do whatever you want.
Online multiplayer, play by the rules.
I'd agree that it cheapens the experience, but I would never call it cheating. I think if you get to the point that you want to do use something like this nonstop then you've probably long since lost sight in regards to what makes these experiences fun to begin with.
No games are 100% equal are fair, it's impossible. Better connection speed, for instance, can give someone a huge advantage, or manipulation of connection speed could make you unable to be hit in destiny for instance, so ppl used it in trials. People are always going to find ways to get an advantage. The problem i have is when the developers lock gear behind high level pvp content, because it entices cheaters & screws fair players. Knowing this,, developers do it anyways, so whatever. Unless it's a sanctioned, in person tournament where everyone can be on an equal playing field, it's going to happen. My solution was to quit playing pvp games, lol, so it doesn't bother me.
@darkswabber that's the developers problem, they should know better & design around it 🤷🏻♂️. Nothing is ever a level playing field.
@NatiaAdamo PC has an unfair advantage, so someone should sue to remove them from the cross play if they really cared about fairness.
@stache13 and then it comes down to the developers' foresight, or lack thereof, & being able to incorporate game design to get around this being a problem.
Do you think using macros are cheating? It is no different then a complicated turbo button, so in some games it is (splatoon while using squeezer and substrateing) while in others it's not (rock hitting in animal crossing)
This is a pretty old device by this point and has been around for a while.
Shiny hunting has always been awful in the core series. Pokémon Go players seem to have an easier time finding them. Getting the shiny charm from completing the Pokédex is stupid, it should be available sooner. Game Freak should add additional side quests in the core series to assist whatever professor with re-search, to get it. Trying to motivate me with shiny hunting, after I did everything else, is like saying you don’t believe any of the game’s other features have replay value.
The core ideology of the way it has been implemented has to have a hand in limiting the Devs approach to bettering the other aspects of their games.
I have one of these things. They're pretty cool. They work with a ton of different games. All it is to the switch is a controller because that really is all it does is use button macros. I like that you can use it as a Bluetooth dongle to use any controller you want on the switch too. It's a useful device and if anyone is threatened by having more competition then are you really competitive? It's not cheated It's just the person spent 20 dollars to not have to sit in front of the TV for hundreds of hours doing boring grinding for competitive ready Pokémon. And if people are to say that is a part of it then how small of a role does the actual battles play in competitive pokemon?
@RupeeClock
Thank you!
Besides, the misleading header doesn't help. Also, the device is as old as Sword and Shield.
@DTFaux I'm not sure what the issue here is then. People who use such a device aren't going to care what anyone else thinks, I know I wouldn't. My only issue with the "holier than thou" types that ALWAYS pop up whenever anything like this is posted who feel the need to give people guff about what they do with the product they bought. "I want this, and I don't care if you look down on me for how I get it" is kind of ridiculous for anyone to be bothered about when it does not affect them.
@Mijzelffan I'm curious how you say it. That's the only way I've ever heard it.
Hello everyone. Please remember, this device, does not, generate Pokémon, all it does, is do automatic inputs, so it does the movements, instead of yourself, so you can hatch eggs and, await a shiny. It does not modify or generate anything! This is non news!
@yuwarite So Pokémon isn't an online game? This is news to me.
Given the amount of clearly hacked Pokemon in Gen 8, I’d hardly consider this a problem. Almost every max raid I go into has a Pokemon with a genning site as it’s name.
This device has also been out a long, long time and they added the Pokemon updates just after Sword and Shield came out and Nintendo have done nothing to try and stop it.
I get people wanting to use this. I love some shiny hunting methods, but in gen 8, the only real way to hunt a specific Pokémon is Masuda Method breeding. I’ve done MM twice, with the shiny charm and my shinies took me 2050 and 2516 eggs respectively. Over a hundred hours of mindlessly riding a bike in circles.
If your game has a grind, it's a poorly balanced game.
I never understand how people can get upset over what a person chooses to do in a single player game. I mean who cares?
Don't like cheating in your game? Then don't do it and move on. People use cheat codes all the time, doesn't stop me from enjoying a game.
@sanderev It's an issue to all online games, but to clarify, I mean it's more of an issue to competitive online games.
Personally not keen on these Action Replay style devices which take half the challenge of a game away. What’s the point?
But even more so, the fact it mods online play? I’m not even a Fortnite fan, but I hope for the sake of the community Epic/Nintendo find a way of patching online use out or can work out users to block etc. It’s completely unfair for online competition. Do what you want I guess with your own games, but don’t ruin it for other people.
@yuwarite Which is exactly what Pokémon is. This could give you a competive edge over other players in tournaments and such.
@sanderev It is, but Pokémon, at least to my knowledge, is to a lesser extent played competitively than Smash, Mario Kart, Splatoon, etc. But it's an issue to ALL online games, regardless. No need to have a semantics debate over it.
Holy cr*p, I had no idea my cheap gaming keyboard and logitech mouse are modding devices and that I cheat every time I use a macro! Why did nobody tell me?!
/s, if anyone doubts it.
Seriously, shortening tedious and senseless grind in badly-designed games is cheating now? Especially if it's to obtain what's basically a skin? The hell?
I'd understand if it was an aimbot or something, basically anything that gives you an unfair advantage against other players, but all it does is allow you to read a book or something instead of holding a controller like a zombie for hours at a time.
I guess leaving the console running with SR3 or 4 and then drawing on the accrued hourly cash is cheating too.
Cya
Raziel-chan
@Raw_Dawg watch the anime, any official tournament or any trailer for any pokemon game if you want to hear it pronounced correctly. Under what rock have you been living if you've only ever heard people say it incorrectly?
I've never watched the series and I don't live in Japan. I guess most of the people I have talked to only play the games. Just found a Netflix episode also seems to pronounce it that way.
@PN93 or if they do, maybe only on special days so kids could get them sometimes. I got a bunch as a kid and it didnt click they were hacked until at least 10
Exposes the garbage game design all FPS have since Half-Life jumping in circles endlessly with no limits.
Article skips over the Macro mode which makes free to play grind games meaningless piles of bot sewagery
Single player games? That's why it's pointless to talk to anyone online about any game you like. Just assume they are bot running scumbags.
@ModdedInkling so important detail that isn't fully explained in the article imo, this DOESN'T alter the code, it's not a cheat device it's an automation device. it only sends controller inputs and the only input it can receive is rumble. it's basically a more complex version of turbo buttons or using a rubber band to hold the analog stick in a direction
@Bentendo1609 this isn't like an action replay though, it just executes controller macros to grind afk. it can't to anything a human couldn't or even do it faster than a human. it just does it without you having to be there.
@x2brute
Keep in mind, I said spiritual successor, meaning it wasn't directly a successor to either Game Genie or Action Replay.
@x2brute auto-aim in Fortnite isn't a fair mod, the video shows the character automatically lining up with an opposing player's head without having to do a thing while they're walking past.
if it can do that then yeah that's unfair, personally I only use it in Pokemon and haven't read what it can do in other games. I'm curious how it can manage that though
@Bentendo1609 so I looked it up, apparently all it does is abuse the mechanics of the in game auto aim, it's not an aim bot and could be done by a human... but is at a minimum cheap and unsportsmanlike and likely counts as cheating (though it would be cheating without the switch up as well)
I just believed I was going to see Nintendo mods for Sword and Shield.
I don't know what to say about this though. Maybe the shiny hunting players know more will talk about it personally, that said I know there were some cheating devices that directly added Shiny Pokémon, but maybe not to this extent were they aid with a legit mechanic.
Not sure how or why this is a story. Modded switches have had cheats since a year or so after launch. There is also game modding and save game editing, which is far worse then a simple cheat.
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