If your mum asked you if you wanted to watch a romantic period drama with her for Mother's Day, you'd know what to expect. Two hours of unrelenting pining between two extremely good-looking people in silly outfits, kept apart by some ridiculous social convention, at least one ludicrously sexy scene where one of the good-looking people falls in a lake, or gets shot and has to take their top off, and then they get married at the end.
If your dad requested a movie night with a bunch of '80s action movies, again, you'd already know quite a few of the tropes. Bruce Willis, Tom Cruise, and Sylvester Stallone try to break into an underground wrestling crime ring run by the German Mafia to rescue their daughter, wife, and best friend from a plane crash before the President finds out. And then, at the end, they all turn out to be androids!
However, if your little brother asked you to play a first-person shooter with him, all you'd know about the game would be the fact that it has guns, and those guns are pointed at something that should probably become dead. Also, your face is the camera.
Granted, that's a bit of an unfair oversimplification. Genres, both in games and in films, serve to inform the audience what to expect from something. Without having too many elements of the plot spoiled, a genre can tell you what the focus is, whether it's finding love, killing bad guys, or being chased around a house by ghosts.
Movie genres tell you how you will feel, like "horror" or "thriller", the general setting, like "western" and "historical", or they tell you what the main character will be doing, like "action" or "romance". Video game genres, by virtue of their interactivity, are largely classified by what you do in them, like "platformer", "role-playing", and "shooter". Of course they differ from how books, film, and TV are described, because the main difference is that you are the one doing the action in a game, so the mechanics are used as the main descriptor.
But, in the few decades that the video game industry has existed, those labels have proved to be less than adequate. New labels have emerged, and some of them are exceedingly silly, like "metroidvania" and "roguelike". The former refers to a game with a large map that you can access from the beginning, with new areas that you can unlock as you progress, and it comes from "Metroid" and "Castlevania", two games that had systems like that. To clarify: Metroid and Castlevania are both action-adventure games, but their way of doing things was so unique that it became popular enough to warrant a whole new label.
The latter, "roguelike", is similar: games that usually involve dungeon crawls through procedurally generated levels, making progress each time, but starting again once you die. It's a label based on the game "Rogue", a game from 1980 that pioneered the mechanic. We know what roguelikes (and their bastard child, roguelites) are, because we had to learn what they are in order to figure out if we enjoyed them. The label, just like "metroidvania", tells us nothing in and of itself, and expects prior knowledge of the industry and its history.
I'm a games journalist, and I have to know all these silly portmanteaus in order to do my job properly. But when I talk about my favourite games, I have absolutely no idea how to describe them, because the games genre lexicon is stunted. For example: I like games like Slay The Spire, with cards that have attacks on them... but I don't like Hearthstone. So, single-player deckbuilders? But Slay The Spire is a roguelike, or maybe a roguelite, as well — so maybe it's just those that I like, although I didn't really get on with Rogue Legacy, Spelunky, or Dead Cells. So, maybe it's the strategic elements of Slay The Spire that I enjoy... except games like Crusader Kings and Civilization bring me out in stress-hives.
Oh, don't worry. I realise how much of a first-world problem it is that I can't quite categorise the games I like. Waaa. But, be honest: has your brain ever slightly melted at the phrase, "massively-multiplayer online role-playing game"? Have you ever wrinkled your nose at people using "indie" to mean "cute game made by small team", even when that team has a publisher? And, be honest now, do you sort of hate the word "wholesome" to describe literally any game with dogs in it?
That's precisely my point, you see. Genres are supposed to be useful tools, both to sort games into boxes for easier decision-making, and to talk about games with other people. They're a linguistic shortcut, just like "car" means "metal box with wheels for go fast" and "shoes" means "fabric box on foot for go slow". Both cars and shoes come in lots of different shapes, colours, and sizes, but we know what they are; if we need further distinction, we can get into appearance, purpose, and even brand: a red satin ballet shoe, or a blue Toyota Corolla.
When genres are as messy as they are in games, especially when they rely on naming other games, it becomes a tangled web of references that don't tell us much about the game itself. Imagine trying to tell your friend that your shoes were "Converse-likes" or that your car was a "PeugeotFiat", and how little that would help to actually describe those things.
Newer genre names like "indie" and "wholesome" exist to convey something that a portion of the market has decided that they like: small, personal games, for example, that are relaxing, tender, and gentle, or that have greater diversity than you would get in a mainstream game.
But there was a backlash about "wholesome" as a label after the Wholesome Games Direct was announced this week, because not everyone wants their work to be subsumed into a label that implies only goodness and softness. Many creators, especially those under the LGBTQ+ umbrella, felt that the label was infantilising, moralising, or that it automatically assumed that any work that included themes of marginalisation and representation were "wholesome", no matter what their content. Other creators were happy to be considered "wholesome", due in part to the fact that it helped their games get noticed under a genre label that was getting attention.
The "wholesome" debate is just one example of how genres are failing both players and developers. Right now, video game genres are a bit of a free market, and no one knows exactly how to navigate it.
The reason we have these labels, and why I'm constantly using the godawful phrase "Harvest Moon-likes", is because no one governing body exists to make new ones properly. Like all of language, these genre names just sort of bloop out of some journalist or marketing specialist's brain, and we use them gratefully because we're really tired of having to describe games with fifteen words.
Oh, Ace Attorney? That's a, um, murder-mystery detective supernatural fantasy legal drama adventure visual novel. Professor Layton, on the other hand, is a logic puzzle narrative adventure science-fiction animated visual novel. Very different. Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright? That's, well, it's complicated. Stop asking questions.
Imagine trying to build a bridge as you cross it, placing planks down, stepping on to them, and hoping it holds. That's game genres. We're all just trying to make things work as we build them, trying desperately to coin useful, descriptive ways to describe games, and because a lot of the people trying to do that are journalists and critics like me, we end up saying "it's a lot like this other game", because our body of knowledge is other games. It's beyond fixing, now. We've come too far, and now we have all these horrible mutant genre names that we have to use, or genre names that creators outright resent or reject.
There's no easy solution here, because what's done is done. We could establish some regulatory body to crack down on new genres, but what fun would that be? People will continue to make their own proprietary blends of tags, descriptions, and compound words to try to categorise the games they love, because humans really, really love putting things in boxes. Perhaps this is just a teething problem, and it'll straighten itself out eventually. But can I make one request? Stop making me refer to games as "metroidvanias", please. I feel like a wally.
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Your not wrong, some terms get used too much or aren't very well defined.
In gaming, I personally subscribe to simple, less-granularly defined genres of "Sounds like my type of Fun" or "Nah, probably not for me but Enjoy!".
Odd, I don't remember that film, @KateGray.... While, on the whole, I think game genres do give most of us at least some idea about the game & naturally you'd look for more details on any you're interested in
Metroidvania is my pet hate, the term was originally coined to refer to Castlevania games that played like Metroid such as Symphony of the Night. Today it makes no sense in its use as people are only referring to the Metroid part and basically nothing from Castlevania, many of which never even played in that style
@Slowdive it absolutely winds me up does that one 😂
I actually was discussing this on PushSquare just a few hours ago, with the roguelike vs roguelite affair. It’s just semantics. Although this is funny coming from the site that bills literally every single indie game as ‘Breath of The Wild with guns’ or ‘Animal Crossing with Metroidvania elements’. Games are allowed to exist without such boxed-in genre typings.
I often think that terms are used 'backward'. A language is meant to describe reality and now we try do force stuff into the box words we have because we lack more precise words at one point. It applies to almost everything, and that's why we can find people arguing, using a same word, while in fact talking about entirely different things.
That's why tags are great: you have a collection of words to describe your stuff instead of having to choose one (how revolutionary ...).
And i think that cinema is in the same boat. How would you define Inception in one word ?
I will always try to say STG over Shmup.
@Cyz I can describe Inception in one word. Sh*te. 😉
I feel the comparison to films is quite unfair, the problem you desribe with game genre can be seen in other medium as well, LOGAN was a super hero action thriller western, Raimi's Spider-Man were like action romantic super hero drama, there's sci fi horror, sci fi action, sci fi action horror thrillers etc etc... It's just very very broad terms and I'm not a big fan of the concept but it's still useful. I feel like it's the same thing with video games, FPS is a vague term but at least you know it plays in the first person and if it is something you have trouble with, now you know. If you're absolutely not into the way FromSoftware does their action RPG well a game being branded ''Soulslike'' will probably not be your cup of tea.
Rogue legacy, dead cells, gifts that keeps on giving...
RPGs have gotten hit by this genre-melding action the worst. Nearly anything can be considered an RPG in an age where even first-person shooters have stats, leveling systems, etc., which has rendered the term somewhat meaningless. If you describe something as an "RPG," I still have no idea what to expect from it anymore.
Then you get sub-categories like JRPGs, the meaning of which will quickly provoke heated arguments between people who think it's a genre that must conform to certain (usually hazily articulated) standards and can be developed in any region, regardless of the name, and people who think it should be applied to literally any RPG from Japan.
i‘d watch that movie with Bruce, Tom and Sly
@Ralizah I’m in the Jrpg is in the name camp; and use a granular description for the title. J/W/C Rpg is a bucket for region of origin, as those regions have distinct dev/design styles but you can still break up what type of rpg a game is beneath that.
For instance FE is a JRPG that is in the SRPG (strategy/ tactics) genre.
Maybe that’s the reason Nintendo didn‘t give us folders. I am struggling to sort my my games on PS and 3DS since a couple of years now and find myself rearranging them ever so often
Clearly I live in a weird bubble where I’d never even heard of “wholesome” as a genre. Surely that’s an adjective?
Isn't this a bit like the music journalism metaphor, “Writing about music is like dancing about architecture”? The problem seems similar where you're trying to write about something that is directly experienced and subjective. It's not so much a 'first world problem', more a journalistic problem with the need to have a short hand to summarise a full 2000 word review.
Maybe we will end up with tag clouds as an alternative to putting games into individual genre boxes. Having a filter system would make more sense to me than a folder system for organising games on the Switch.
I can see how this would be frustrating as a game journalist or as someone with a deep interest in the industry in general.
Personally, I still find ill-defined genres handy. I get a sense of what to expect when a game is labelled a "metroidvania." It's overuse stems from the genre's current popularity and it seems to have grown beyond a stricter definition of the portmanteau.
That's fine with me.
I like RPGs and I like Zelda games. I think there is a connection between the two that appeals to me. If they started tagging Zelda as an RPG, people would lose their minds, but it would make sense to me in a way I can't quite describe.
"..."car" means "metal box with wheels for go fast" and "shoes" means "fabric box on foot for go slow"..."
That one caught me off guard and gave me a genuine out loud laugh!
As a fan of the 'Metroidvania' genre, it's an awkward term to explain. It feels like there should be a solution here of string terms together to describe the game, much like "big, blue, electric family car" gives a good indicator of what it is.
I feel like Nintendo tried to push a proper and far more logical title when Metroid Prime came out and they didn't want it to be considered an FPS, as that came with certain expectations. Instead they called it a 'First-person Exploration' game. Because that's what the focus is really on in Metroidvanias: exploring. Though Metroid Prime does also use shooting as a big mechanic, so it does feel wrong to leave that out.
So I vote we call them 'Exploration' games now. Metroid Prime is a 'First-Person Exploration Shooter'. Hollow Knight is a '2D Exploration Melee Platformer'.
...Ok these are getting a bit wordy maybe. But it probably makes more sense to those who've not played Metroid or Castlevania...right?
@Ogbert And then you get the problem that BOTW is a game with exploration as its center as well but doesn't play at all like a Metroidvania ! While Fallen Order does !
I read the tag line and immediately thought "Destiny 2" .
@Katsuhono Hhmmm, I wouldn't say exploration was the focus of BotW though. It was certainly encouraged but it wasn't something you needed to do to 'win'. You could just run straight to the castle and fight Ganon, or you could go off and create your own adventure. So I think 'Third Person Action Adventure' still covers it for the most part.
I don't know Fallen Order though. If it's all about finding ways to unlock new areas to explore, it sounds like it might fall into Metroidvania/ Exploration game. If exploring is just a thing you can do as an optional, I don't think it would be an 'Exploration' game. It's all about the core principals of the game design and the things the player must do rather than can do.
This has made me question Mario Odyssey's genre though. I mean I thought it was just a 3D platformer, but you do need to explore each area to find moons to unlock new areas. Exploration is key. But there is no map or back-tracking as one would need for it to be a Metroidvania so...is Mario Odyssey a Metroidvania-lite?
They classified this article as part of the soapbox genre, but it's actually a dungeon-crawler, since it takes so many different routes but ultimately makes you feel like you're running in circles.
“Imagine trying to build a bridge as you cross it, placing planks down, stepping on to them, and hoping it holds. That's game genres.“
I really like this metaphor, except it goes for all of language, not just video game genres.
@Slowdive
"Metroidvania" was a term born on forums when Konami was making handheld Castlevania games that featured the exploration of Metroid games. People were joking that the games were Metroidvania rather than Castlevania. Then an idiot on Youtube started calling all exploratory platformers by that word, and now it's trendy to say it. I have more respect for people like James Rolfe who refuse to say that pointless word.
"Shoot-em-up" is the perfect term for games like Gradius. If someone tells you that it's a bad word, then ask them what genre they would put Double Dragon in. Then ask them why the term "beat-em-up" is okey but "shoot-em-up" isn't. Also, you need the term "shoot-em-up" in order to be able to classify games in the subgenre "cute-em-up" - I'm referring to games like Twinbee and Fantasy Zone.
Unpopular opinion: “Metroidvania” is a great word and we should absolutely follow its example rather than lazily sticking “-like” on the name of one other game.
Couldn’t agree more, Kate. Many genres are entirely too messy, and often misused. Souls-like combat is another thing marketing companies like to throw around. Ugh. Anyway, blame bad marketing, it’s generally on them.
NINJA APPROVED
@riki_sidekicks Metroidvania should only be applicable to games that utilize space and or spooky castle exploration. Otherwise, most of those games share little in common with Castlevania or Metroid. Action adventure is what they were initially called, we should have stuck to those but marketing companies like trends
Genres labels are great for efficiently communicating generalities, but typically breakdown quickly when we look closer and really start analyzing. The biggest problem with genres is that people don't even agree on definitions, and effective communication is over before it begins.
Edit: I feel like I want to respond to almost every comment so far, and on second thought, I'm just going to let it go and stop myself here
😅😂😭🥲😎
@Slowdive Before visiting this website, I'd never come across the term 'shmup' before, and I don't think I've encountered it elsewhere since either. It sounds ridiculous to me. I'll be sticking with 'shoot-'em-up' or 'shooter'.
Y'all need to deal with the fact that Metroidvania isn't going away. It's not. Accept it now. I've seen people try to rename the genre, and no one cares. It's called Metroidvania, it will continue to be called that for the foreseeable future.
There are some issues with describing games, but its not as bad as when every 1/5 game was hit with the vague "action adventure" genre (if the rise of open world games have done any good, its overshadowing that trash description that never made sense outside of Zelda and games like Zelda).
All I know is that RPG has lost all meaning and most soulslikes aren't like souls at all. Before we try to compare things and sort them into boxes, maybe the gaming community should work on figuring out how to describe anything in the first place. Not that there haven't been attempts, such as MDA design philosophy, but that's largely a framework meant for game designers not for public discourse. Video games largely have the same problem as books and movies. The easiest billing is "like that other thing you've heard of." That's why all fantasy books used to be billed as the next Lord of the Rings, and more recently as the next Game of Thrones, even when they share almost nothing in common.
I feel like this is mostly an issue with AAA. Sure, smaller budget and indies may blend a few genres together but I feel like every single western developed AAA game is designed off market trends and tend to just approach game development with a kitchen sink philosophy. This is why I care more for japanese games and western indies.
Let's be honest, it's the market that is doing this to western AAA games. If I have to hear one more bad take about why Capcom games like monhun or RE should go open world and add more rpg character progression systems because "reasons " I'll scream.
The game industry became more creative with mixing up genre's to create a new gameplay which can be nice if done properly like how the new final fantasy games became action rpg's but to solve the confusion with the audience, give them game demos to try the game before purchase. Personally, Ps plus introduced me to new games/genre's which I loved and would not thaught of buying before.
Genre tags are kind of pointless, I agree.
I think there should be main labels and then sub labels. To me, all these labels are like disorganized files that need to be put into labeled folders. For example, RPG would be the main label and then subs will be after, like RPG-J, Role Playing Game -Japanese, RPG-J/F, Role Playing Game - Japanese/Fantasy, RPG-J/SF, Role Playing Game - Japanese/Sci-Fi, RPG-W/F, Role Playing Game - Western/Fantasy and maybe RPG-RL, Role Playing Game - Rogue Like.
The main category should be the main focus of the game and the sub part should help to tell you what type of game it is. Maybe Zelda Breath of the Wild could be RPG-E/P, Role Playing Game - Exploration/Puzzles while Fallout 3 would be RPG-E/SF/Ap, Role Playing Game - Exploration/Sci-Fi/Apocalyptic and Skyrim would be RPG-E/F, Role Playing Game - Exploration/Fantasy.
I dunno. Just an idea I have.
I think I didn't even bother with these genre titles. I read it and my brain skims over it completely, I look for those more old-fashioned 'what-you-do' monikers, like platform, rpg, etc, as was mentioned. So often I read the description of the game and it tells me almost nothing at all so I find the gratuitous screenshots so I can go "oh it's one of those games". I'm glad someone finally said it and in a way @KateGray it was obviously going to be you. Like the other problems with your expertise just waiting for someone to, respectfully and eloquently, point it out.
Saying that, music genres is the one that gets me all the time, death metal, black metal, heavy metal, it's all an alloy of some kind. My friends became quite successful with a band that was labeled 'prog rock' but then received backlash because they didnt sound anything like Tool or other bands of that genre. I dunno. It's all just a way we try to categorize and document our social habits isn't it?
Another point, why do people get so hung up on terms like metroidvania or roguelike? You don't need to know the etymology of a word to use it, that's not how language works. If you sit a person down and have them play a handful of metroidvanias and explain to them that they are called "metroidvanias" they'll immediately understand the genre. When people describe boring individuals as "milquetoast" or talk about movie studio "tentpole releases" do people actually know the origin of these terms? Probably not, it probably doesn't even register in their brain, but they do understand its meaning and that's all that matters.
@Chowdaire IT'S CHOWDER! I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL ALL OF YOU
The number of games has exploded in the last decade and a half.
Developers are pushing out the corners of the genre boxes to distinguish themselves and generate interest.
Movies had a long period of setting expectations with similar successful stories and tropes. This gave a great foundation for awhile.
I think one of the big issues is that entertainment fields of all kinds have discovered that their products can succeed with smaller and smaller audiences that have more niche tastes and particular interests. Maybe this happened faster in gaming, so games don't have as solid a set of genre foundations.
(As an aside, I have not decided whether the giant array of options is a good or bad thing. When I was a kid, it seemed like everyone watched the same shows and ads and wanted similar toys — it was a common touchpoint for similar age groups.
In the broad genre of sci-fi, there were not 20 sci-fi TV shows and movies spread across animation, live-action, satire, apocalypse, etc. There were one or two movies a year and maybe one or two TV shows that tried to tackle the budget-issues. Every sci-fi fan knew about every single one of them.)
Genres are definitely useful, however. In movies, people are guided by their expectations in genre. Yes, you want to surprise people, but there are some tropes audiences rely on, and they will turn on the movie if you don't settle into their overall expectations of story.
The same is true with fans of some types of games, as well, but right now there is a great deal of experimentation in genres and appreciation for novelty comes in waves. Developers still need to play into the expectations of genres to some degree if they want to attract fans and keep them satisfied... it's complicated, which makes it hard to talk about.
@LavaTwilight oh my God!... Someone took a bite out of the rice-crispy square!
@iuli That's still four words merged in to one. That's cheating
@nessisonett Damn you're so smart
Some agreement on genre like @Xylnox above is suggesting can help, for sure.
I love Metroid, but never liked that Metroidvania term when it started appearing.
Also the distinction between Action Adventures and Metroid is often lost on people. What IS the difference between Metroid and Zelda?
I always made the distinction that Metroid relied on "keys" that were active and had an action that was also for fighting and overcoming other challenges, not just for advancing to new areas by opening a door.
Zelda does this, too, though. Many times the abilities are strictly for advancing through puzzles only, though.
Those are some subtle distinctions, however, so starting with Action Adventure is a good place.
@kategray There's a great video by Extra Credits on this topic. Really worth a watch if you haven't seen it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepAJ-rqJKA
Meh, just like music genres - although they're sometimes helpful labels, oftentimes they are inaccurate and nebulous.
I remember back in the late eighties and early nineties the RPG games were for like nerds or something, but now isn’t everything an RPG x x x
I dislike the term 'Metroidvania.' I tend to use the old school 'arcade adventure' umberella. To be honest, if you are in to a genre, then an umbrella is fine. Same with shoot em ups. It's nice to know which direction it scrolls, but I love shmups in any orientation (if it's different then it's all good in my book) and fine with an umbrella term for them. I fear folk over think what is essentially something you enjoy playing...not write a bloody thesis on them lol
Think having a picture of Steam tags in the article perfectly sums up the issue. But then, I'd also argue that general game & theme genres (such as "platformer", or "horror") can be used interchangeably with more specific labels like "Metroidvania" or "4x", depending largely on the audience you're talking to. For example, I would tell my brother, who also plays games, that Shantae is a Metroidvania, but I'd tell my mother it's an action platformer.
Sounds like we ran out of things to complain about. If games stuck rigidly to a genre, people would complain about that as well.
I have friends who only understand the name ‘space invaders’ when it comes to the arcade shooter genre. Space invader-style is how I describe certain games I play to them
@Slowdive you and me both.
People have this obsession with cramming things into boxed labels. And it's hardly limited to games. Subgenres of music are even more ridiculous.
Instead of trying to slap some one word label on it to sum it up, actually describe it a bit.
Umbrella terminology is fine like 'fighter' or 'platformer' for the basic gameplay, but games have a lot that separates them within those umbrellas. I don't even pay attention to subgenres beyond that.
"We know what roguelikes (and their ***** child, roguelites) are"
Except you (other editors included) don't. Hades and Tumbleseed, for instance, are called Roguelikes here when they clearly aren't. Having either procedurally generated levels or permadeath doesn't automatically make a game a roguelike, just like being able to throw fireballs doesn't make Mario Galaxy a 3rd person shooter, and yet if they have either of those features, it's labelled a roguelike in reviews around here.
Metroidvania gets to be it's own sub-genre, but "open-world" doesn't? This is one step away from being as bad as the game console generation classification, because that is a mess all by itself.
AAA is probably the most useless term in the business. It really just means expensive. And that doesn’t automatically make it good. Many AAA games are trend chasers or creatively barren. Nothing wrong with it, as if “it ain’t broke” and all that, but that label tells the consumer nothing and imo just feeds the gatekeepers.
Totally off-topic: why the hate with Inception? For me it's a nice movie ahahahahha
The title of the article should have been:
Why is it called "Super SMASH Bros Ultimate" when 25% of them are sword fighters?
😎
https://screenrant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-sword-fighter-dlc-sora/#:~:text=Of%20the%2080%20total%20characters,nearly%20identical%20to%20the%20others.
@aaronsullivan ya, I agree. There needs to be some kind of organization. Like those games that get labeled as Dark Souls Like. I'd rather those games be labeled Tough or something because Dark Souls isn't the first hard game ever.
@Ryu_Niiyama yea it means expensive but there’s also a certain specificity to it though. Like it’s used foe things that are big flashy crowd pleasers. It’s more of a flavor of game than genre though you can’t just be like yeah this is a AAA game you do need to say AAA FPS to describe Call of Duty for example.
Grand Theft Auto is a Wholesomelite Simcityvania ARPG Drug Trafficking Simulator.
It’s wholesome because dog, but arguably very light on wholesome elements because you can run over the dog in a tank. It combines the ‘city’ elements of Sim City with the exploration elements of a metroidvania game. And it’s an ARPG/American Role Playing Game because you play the role of an American; one whose drug trafficking antics you spend much of the game simulating.
I don’t know why no one else uses this term.
@Ryu_Niiyama : AAA is to gaming what "blockbuster" is to film.
Unlike AAA games though, I don't care for the overwhelming majority of blockbuster films. And to echo the sentiments of @Chowdaire I generally stick with independent and foreign films as they typically haven't been neutered of creativity via endless focus group consultations and market research.
@rjejr : The "brothers" part never made sense either. Catchy name though.
A AAA F2P VR PvE FPS MMORPG sounds AWFUL 😂
Music is currently laughing at this article.
@Brydontk You really think Destiny VR wouldn’t work?
Metroidvania - the term helps me distinguish between linear platformers like Kaze and the Wild Masks and platformers like Ori and the Blind Forest that involve more exploration, powerups and backtracking. The first type of game I enjoy a lot more than the other.
The term Metroidvania is useful but not perfect in that it carries too much atmospheric connotations to games like Metroid and Castlevania.
Man that Picture of Doom on switch is tragic.
Oh yes, that "metroidvania" monicker is plain stupid.
And I honestly never heard of the wholesome one until now! That's much dumber!
@nessisonett ... Touché Ness
Music has this problem too. Remember in 2019 when Lil Nas X's Old Town Road was removed from the Country Music Charts by Billboard because it "wasn't country"? That sparked a huge debate about what songs should and shouldn't be considered "country music" and the importance of genre categorization as a whole.
I see genre as a quick way of giving you an idea of a game, nothing more. Metroidvania, for example, is quite a clumsy word, but you immediately know what kind of game it refers to, so there's no need to change it. Plus, games are frequently blending so many different genre ideas that just calling a game like Hades a 'roguelite' game is selling it short.
I guess my point is simply that all genre names are entirely arbitrary things. As Shakespeare said, "That which we call a rose / By any other name would smell as sweet." Genres are just collections of graphemes, nothing more.
@kickerofelves Back when Extra Credits had actual credibility and didn't try finding political incorrectness when there wasn't any
I really did think the article was a fun read, though it did feel like you tried to make it seem more preposterous than it really is. Terms like AAA, indie, wholesome, VR, PVE, F2P and many others aren't game genres. They are descriptive terms that help identify elements about the game, but not the gameplay genre. The same is true of things like supernatural or fantasy or sci-fi or drama. These are thematic genre descriptors which are more in line with classic film genres which also aren't the same as gameplay genres.
It's also worth noting that if we wanted to describe films in more complicated ways, we easily can and do, there just aren't as many useful shorthand terms like gaming has, anyway.
Realistically, though, you pick any of the games you mentioned and it's fairly simple to identify their genre and possibly why you like them and not others in a similar genre. Spelunky is a 2D platformer/roguelite. Slay the Spire is a deck building/roguelite. Dead Cells and Rogue Legacy are both Metroidvania/roguelites. Hearing those is more than enough to give as a strong picture of what the games are to know whether or not it's a genre you're interested in, potentially.
And while it's popular right now to hate on terms like roguelite/like or Metroidvania, you can't argue with the fact that you know exactly what that means, why it exists and that it does indeed do its job. It's not any more preposterous than calling cinematic experiences... movies. We call them movies because they're pictures that move. It's a terrible descriptor that sounds like a sleepy toddler came up with it (we may as well call a knife a cutty or a spoon a scoopy or a car a drivey), but now it's ubiquitous and everyone understands quite clearly what it refers to. It's the nature of language in general. I gave up years ago attempting to fight the tide of language because it's a losing battle and it's pointless.
Beyond that, games are just more complex now, yes. Most seem to have RPG elements in them of some variety. Or they're multifaceted experiences with many different modes of play. Regardless, we can still do pretty well to describe games by the classic genre definitions and then help clarify a few extra things along the way, like it it's an MMO, if it has roguelike elements or what the thematic setting.
The definition of the genres in games, as mentioned, and obviously, to define the type of game it is, from racing, fighting, life simulator, puzzles, etc, etc .; from there can come the so-called sub-genres (which can be the same "main" genres) and now, the new words to give "new" sub-genres in specific or rather, "as people know it"
The idea is clear, simply to search for a game and know if that game is what you are really looking for.
Here, my example, I like the racing genre, so obviously the games with "that" label "are the ones that I will mainly look for"; now, however, we have thousands of games of that and despite my favorite genre, "no" all They are to my liking, so I use what I mention "sub-genre", in this case, I would mention: arcade; with this I discard several (such as Gran Turismo and Forza, which are good games, but not my priorities), without However, in the arcade list, many are still not to my liking, so I return to more "sub-genres" or "" filters "", in that case, "car-racing", and from there, "illegal racing", "pursuits", "racing with civil traffic." Therefore, the game (or games) in question would be Need For Speed, Test Drive, Burnout, Asphalt; these games have everything I am looking for in this genre, and despite others Games like Ridge Racer or Horizon chase fulfill part of what I am looking for, they are not the games that I have in mind; and well, as you can see, a game that I am looking for would be of several labels and well there is no shorter tag name for this, such as "metroidvania", which, despite being a modern "tag" and does not match the standard tag (and from the looks of it, it is not the taste of many people ), at least, for many people it covers many points and they already have games that definitely fit those ideas, in other words, if they say that this game has that label, it is already very assured that for many people, that game is what they are looking for without having to see more details
...
In summary, if I am looking for a game like Need For Speed, what tags / genres should I see and use to find it?, but do not tell me that games like Ridge racer, Gran Turismo or Horizon chase are the ones I am looking for because they are NOT, even though they all belong to the same main gender (Racing)
@Slowdive The problem is that there hasn't been a successful replacement term. I remember when FPS were called "Dooms". What would you call a metroidvania, exploration 2D platformer maybe?
Other Genre systems aren't exactly perfect either. You can say, "I like comedy movies" but if you hear that a new comedy movie is coming out, you have no indication of whether or not you'll like it. You may be a Monty Python and the Holy Grail fan, but that doesn't mean you'll love Along Came Polly.
For that matter, we could go with those same tags to describe our games. Metroid is a Sci-Fi game. Phoenix Wright is a Mystery game. But then not every game has a story, especially the classics. Pac-Man is a ??? game? Horror? Cooking?
So I think we got here because video games were born from a place where story was an afterthought, if it was a thought at all. So, as stated here, it was more useful to describe what you'll do instead of how you'll feel. But while we have a relatively compact vocabulary to describe our feelings, there are literal millions of verbs. So trying to categorize video games based on what you do becomes a fool's errand.
But, yes, when we come to a site like this and we just want some sort of inkling of whether we'll like it, we need a quick label that we can search for. Tell me it's a First Person Shooter, and I'll see you later. Tell me it's a point-and-click and you have my attention. Tell me it's a platformer and I'm still gonna need a lot of information. If it's something we've never done before (And the Indie boom of the last decade or so has created a LOT of those) then I pity the poor reviewer that has to make it into an elevator pitch. "It's like Kirby, but you also have courtroom scenes like Phoenix Wright, and have to solve Picross Puzzles." If enough of those games come out, you have to come up with SOMETHING. I don't know if I could do any better than, "Uhh. It's a Kirbross Wright game."
One thing that irks me is people using the term JRPG to distinguish certain RPGs from others. Just. Say. R.P.G. RPG. That's the only term you need. No need to argue over if something is Japanese influenced or more of a "western style" just call it an RPG. Simple.
The names people give to certain genres are not exactly the problem. What annoys me are the people who try to force you to use the Highlander term (there can be only one) for whatever game they think the term applies to and therefore should be the only one used. And that's basically a big percentage of the internet today: a bunch of people telling you how to think or what to say
The ever-present need for definitive labels to stamp on random nouns.
I would be far more interested in honest viewpoints than the need for pigeon holed descriptors.
Back in the day, your JRPGs all played like Dragon Warrior, and your RPGs in the states all played like Ultima or Wizardry. It was a useful distinction, because most people loved one and hated the other. But now not all Japanese RPGs are JRPGs, and America loves to make JRPGs themselves, so the distinction is still useful, but the words are nonsense.
@Silly_G "The "brothers" part never made sense"
I've always thought of it as a reference to a band of brothers, made famous by Shakespeare.
http://www.indepthinfo.com/band-of-brothers/
But it probably just means Mario and Luigi. 😂
@Baker1000 I would go the other way, “RPG” has become so expansive that calling a game an “RPG” conveys no meaningful information. “JRPG” is much more specific and evocative, though even “JRPG” includes a lot of variety.
@Xylnox I thought Soulslike referred to games that take the specific mechanics that distinguish Dark Souls: enemies reset at bonfires (or meditation circles or park benches or whatever), experience points/money that’s dropped at the spot where you died, and dodge and parry melee combat based on precise timing in response to enemy animations.
Celeste is difficult, but it’s not a Soulslike. Respawning is quick and painless, you don’t drop resources at your death point because there are no persistent resources, and “combat”, to the extent it exists, consists of the same sort of platforming challenges as the rest of the game.
@riki_sidekicks oh, I thought it was the difficulty aspect. I apologize, you are correct.
Like some have mentioned, I find them useful to determine and envisage the game to know if I would like it and so purchase it with my finite games budget. However, yeah, there is so much overlap and mixing of genres now. It's actually interesting and confusing at the same time. It sometimes works well, it sometimes doesn't.
I've gotten used to the "metroidvania" term after intially not liking it. I remember criticising someone on twitter politely about his use of the term for a PS game (name I forget) whilst simultaneously slagging off Metroid and Castlevania. He blocked me. Lol
The movie genre comparison is hinting at a dangerous development games should not copy: making content to fit a mold. If one looks past US studio releases, movies don't fit into boxes anymore, they have coined the terms foreign for those, wich obviously makes no sense at all for non Americans. There are treasures to discover if one is willing to deal with subtitles.
Game genres named after landmark games are a two edged sword. If wielded by a respectable journalist, they can be descriptive and informative, if one understands the connotation. Publishers use such terms to piggy back on another games success, if they live up to it, good for them, if not, they might make a player not pick up the namesake. Have I disliked souls games I might never touch Dark Souls. The same is probably true for brand name games, had Breath of the Wild been my first Zelda, I might never have played all the others, especially not the original, since they are so often compared.
Indie is about as much a genera (genus?) as Hispanic is a race lol!
I find this a fairly arbitrary thing to complain about. Genres help us get a sense of what to expect, but of course there are going to be games which draw influence from multiple genres.
It sounds more like you want to know exactly what you are going to play before you even play it. Like watching all the trailers for a new movie and reading key plot points before watching it.
And you didn't even touch "Immersive sims".
@riki_sidekicks I'm gonna disagree there. You say RPG to me and I know exactly what type of game you're talking about. I actually have no idea what defines a JRPG other than being developed in Japan, but I understand even then it could be in a style not typical of a Japanese developed RPG. Just say RPG, it's far less confusing.
I'm going to play a shooter.
After looking at all the many shooters I have and that are available: I'm going to play Picross.
@Slowdive So, you do not like the term Metroidvania, eh? You are prudent, and save often.
Thats why I always use sub-genres.
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