Update: Dangen Entertainment's Head of Operations Dan Stern has contacted us directly presenting the publisher's side of the story in response to our original article (below) concerning the ongoing situation between the company and Protoculture Games. Below is the main body of his correspondence detailing the situation from Dangen's perspective and including an image of the most recent email sent to Protoculture:
Having read your article from 7/21/2020 I want to provide additional context which the article doesn't touch upon. This is because Dangen is making every effort to return Devil Engine to the developers and has done so for six months as the emails we shared show. All that's needed is a little communication to find cancellation conditions the developer will agree to.
First, a couple corrections:
· Dangen paid Protoculture on July 23, 2019. The composer acknowledged receipt here https://twitter.com/Qwesta6/status/1272540691864915968?s=20 · Dangen is not withholding payment as the article suggests. We always send sales reports on time and ask the developer to invoice. We would never withhold payment because that's immoral and illegal. Also, no amount of money is worth the negative PR this brings.
To answer the points Tristan raised in his TwitLonger:
We are not threatening anyone legally or otherwise. He has mentioned lawyers before and talking to a certified lawyer in emails sounds like a good idea. It would likely complete the negotiations quickly. In my most recent email exchange with him he said his lawyer would reach out to me. I have not been contacted yet, but I hope to hear from a professional soon.
Invoice: We don't understand why he cannot invoice. All of our other developer partners invoice without difficulty and some are also based in the same country as Tristan. In the six months where I sent those 11 emails, I never heard they cannot invoice. Until May I heard nothing while they said online that they did invoice but we were ghosting them. We will gladly pay Tristan his royalties, but the bank requires an invoice to do this because Dangen is a tax-paying entity and has to show a paper trail for sending money out of the country.
On the contract:
Why a contract? - It is a legal liability for us to transfer the game without proof of cancellation. So is Protoculture, for that mattter, if they wanted to use the music. We would never DMCA the game anyway, but a cancellation contract makes usage of the assets clear.
Why are there costs? (What are these "costs") - These were the approved costs for music and localization that the developer initially asked for. We will not sell Ignition so we want to recover these costs from cancellation because we will give the rights for all the music and localziation we made to the developer. But it's not a present and we don't want to give it away for free. We have offered two options: don't use the music and Dangen can pay the cost or pay for the music as listed in the contract under approved costs and then use the music in future games.
Superfluous costs - We have the communication receipts where all of these costs were approved and we would be happy to show this to a journalist who wants to vet it. Any item where we couldn't find the approvals was deleted before we even shared the cancellation contract with Protoculture. We were never asked to either remove or provide approval receipts for these, but we would have done so at any time. This is why we needed replies between January and May.
Striking out unapproved costs - We offered to strike out costs if we were mistaken and they had already been paid for by the dev (Feb 18). We offered to address any disagreements with the terms (May 18). And we even offered to let Tristan choose any or all costs to strike out completely under the condition that the music and translation we paid for would not be used in the release (July 21). This is not about money for us. It is purely about communicating enough to know what Tristan needs to finish this relationship and receive the game.
So what's in the contract?
· Payment of remaining royalties to dev. · Dev can use the assets for which Dangen recouped costs. · Transfer of Steam page within 10 days. · Removal of Dangen branding within 10 days. · Return of Dangen's devkit within 10 days. · That's all. It's two pages long and followed by a list of receipts and an attachment of the contract it cancels.
Here is my most recent email to Tristan:
His reply was that I will be contacted by his lawyer and that I won't hear from Tristan again. I have not yet been contacted by the lawyer but I hope to hear from them as soon as possible. I think it's in the best interests of both companies and of fans, for a professional to handle a clean transfer of the game back to Protoculture.
I understand people have doubts based on previous management. I've genuinely done all can to fix those issues. We're working happily with all our other developer partners. The proof provided should show that I have made multiple efforts to solve the Devil Engine issue but without one party at the table, there is little that can be done. I sincerely hope Tristan spends the few hours it takes to invoice us, sign the 2 page cancellation contract, or to consult a proper lawyer so that both parties can move on.
Original Story (Tue 21st Jul, 2020 13:30 BST): Shooter fans will no doubt remember the superb Devil Engine, and with good reason – it's one of the best blasters on Switch. However, the studio behind the game, Protoculture Games, insists that it hasn't seen a penny from sales of the title on either Switch or Steam and that embattled publisher Dangen Entertainment is refusing to sign the IP back over.
Dangen, you may recall, ran into trouble late last year when its CEO stepped down following allegations of inappropriate behaviour, harassment and bad business practices. At the time, Protoculture revealed that it no longer had access to Devil Engine on Switch or Steam, and this resulted in the delay of the game's 'Ignition' expansion.
Fast forward to the present, and it seems that nothing has been sorted out in over six months. Protoculture's Sinoc, who is one of Devil Engine's lead developers, has claimed that Dangen is still withholding payment for sales of the game and the long-awaited Ignition expansion is still very much in limbo. In addition to this, he states that Dangen is still refusing to relinquish control of the game to Protoculture.
I have sent 11 emails to the developers and Jeannie Park, their representative. I received one reply on December 18th, which called my proposals "favorable". After that, I received nothing until May, even after I sent a pre-signed cancellation contract in January in which Dangen gets no revenue after termination. During this time, Dangen sent all sales reports on time, but received no invoices (which are required by law in order for us to pay them). We also saw claims that Dangen threatened heavy legal action (which I never did) and that I refused to give the titles back to the developers (which my emails show to be false).
Sinoc has since responded to this statement, saying:
The negotiations were primarily being handled by Jeannie (who wanted to remain anonymous through this, so good job outing her) as she did all the buisnessey stuff, I wanted to be left out of the CC so I could focus on my next project (It's truckin along).
The threats against us obviously weren't in the emails, but in person at TGS and hearsay from secondary sources. I know they'll say 'X employee doesn't represent us' but we couldn't exactly take any chances.
We can't send an invoice (which they constantly reference) because that's the legal equivalent of saying 'yea this is totally legit', but since they forged numbers the first time there's no way in hell we're gonna trust them again on that.
The cancellation contract they reference would have us pay a bunch of superfluous costs we never agreed to and some we can't even source, in addition to other very restricting clauses. Since they don't respect the original contract, we weren't going to enter into another.
We've been speaking with our lawyer over the past couple months on how to proceed further. Nothing has changed until we announce it has.
Sadly, it would seem this whole sorry business is no closer to being solved, and that means Devil Engine fans will have to continue to wait in order to get their hands on the Ignition expansion.
We gave Devil Engine 8/10 when we reviewed it, saying:
It seems almost customary to include the phrase 'Not for everyone' in any review of a niche genre game, and while that certainly applies to Devil Engine, it has at least been designed in a way that encourages even the weakest players to keep trying and learn from their mistakes... if you're a fan of this style of game – and you're crying out for a title in the Thunder Force vein – then Devil Engine is well worth a look.
Damien has been writing professionally about tech and video games since 2007 and oversees all of Hookshot Media's sites from an editorial perspective. He's also the editor of Time Extension, the network's newest site, which – paradoxically – is all about gaming's past glories.
Seems to me like there may have been some miscommunication on both ends but Dangen seems to be purposely muddying the waters, this is why you self publish people, stop using ***** publishers.
Is there anything we can do to help? - sign online petitions etc... ?
Obviously I don't really understand who is the villain here and whether there is fault on both sides or not - but I do understand that for devs not to be paid for months/years of work is very, very wrong. And for an IP to be potentially 'stolen' through cutthroat business practices.
I grabbed this game on Steam a while ago and immediately refunded it after reading up on all of this. I hope they sort it out soon. I was looking forward to playing it but if the actual devs aren't getting my money, then... Nah.
@Jokerwolf It isn't so simple. Picture this... You are totally unknown, you know how to code and/or design and/or have a bro that can help you with the other. You decide to make a game, no reason to think it will succed, but still you try. Bills don't go anywhere so you might need sponsorship (maybe a spouse or your parents) or you may do it on your free time and risk a burnout with NO GUARANTEE of profit. And do all that while sometimes enduring people telling you it isn't worth it, or why don't you get a real job. And then comes a random dude that tells you he believes in you and offer you like 30k + a big part if not the bigger of the profit. And that 30k is not a loan, it is a payment, if the game doesn't sell, well, bad luck, but you don't owe anyone anything. The guy will also handle selling and marketing so you don't even have to understand that, and the dude has already many succesful projects under his belt. You know that without him your 100% profit might be way smaller than his % offer. There are many reasons even big companies go to publishers, but one way or another not all publishers are evil. And even the same publisher might have an different contract with different devs. Some might even let you have all rights of franchise.
I wonder if Limited Run Games could step in to mediate this issue? LRG are doing a physical publication for Bug Fables soon, which is a game also published by Dangen. That was published much more recently though.
I actually bought this game a while ago without prior knowledge of the situation. I feel bad the dev didn't get my money. Too bad Nintendo doesn't offer refunds... :/
@FantasiaWHT It feels like they're battling Dangen more out of principle at this point for taking advantage of them. I get it. They poured their blood sweat and tears into Devil Engine. For someone to them take advantage of them has to be infuriating. At the same time, you have to learn your lesson, take the losses and move on. Lastly, I really can't stand that a company like Dangen who clearly has terrible business practices keeps getting new games/work. Really happy I don't have to work in an industry as seemingly toxic as the game industry is.
@DeathUriel I bet you they learned their lesson, may as well just get a loan to cover publishing fees at that point. I grantee you I know enough about the internet I can make any decent game appealing through social media and the right people. I agree with you it may have a bit to do with naivety for sure.
@Jokerwolf Funny enough, big companies that have plenty of money still do it. Maybe just maybe it is because it is worth it, considering their specific situations that might or not apply to some random indie dev. Also, getting a loan still means you have to pay back, if it flops you flop.
DANGEN are utter C####. This game is fantastic, and i long to play the extra content the developers worked so hard to bring us. i can't believe that they haven't got paid for this, and i would assume that it sold pretty well.
By all means, the publisher could be gaslighting everybody; but with all we’re working with (statements, emails), not sure how anyone could jump to the conclusion that the developer isn’t being their own problem in this situation.
Basically, “e-mail/call/contact my buddy with business stuff because I don’t want to be bothered with it.” (fair enough, that’s how most creative types handle their business). Buddy proceeds to drop the ball, dev skips straight to lobbing accusations at the publisher.
Publisher provides receipts to the public. Dev is cornered, throwing bs at the wall to see what sticks instead of admitting they might be wrong: “yeah, well maybe threats were second hand... uh, the numbers, uh, the numbers are forged...like a GEDORE ratchet...or something...and uh...look look, they just doxed my friend.”
I mean, whatever, I accept that they’re a solo developer (ie probably not all there...or at least half somewhere else). The situation is whatever. But for random people on the internet to see this and not only take sides...but side with the dev...only based on what they see? That’s silly.
To me it sounds so weird anyone in this situation would have to invoice to get paid. Why not send payment alongside the sales report? I’m sure there was already a share agreement.
Aside from the paper trail aspect, basically sending an invoice after receiving the sales report is confirming “Hey, these sales figures look good. Also the recoup costs you’re deducting look correct. Please pay me the amount based on the report.” which is important from a legal perspective.
If the figures or recoup costs don’t look right, you sort those discrepancies out before sending an invoice.
@ANewOnez still sounds weird to me. Book authors, actors, directors, all deal with the same and they just have means to audit discrepancies later, still get paid as agreed in the meantime.
To me, it sounds like the publisher in this case would be able to use the invoice as a legal shield where the work author never gets paid until they either run a full audit or forgo the right to do one at a later point.
Yeah the audit thing is also definitely true. Good point.
It could also be a banking issue as mentioned in the response. From my experience living in Japan, whenever you need to send money outside of the country, you have to indicate what that transfer is for as well as provide some sort of documentation. I guess that would be the invoice in this case.
The companies I’ve had experience with in Japan have always requested an invoice before disbursing a payment. Granted there could be exceptions?
@ANewOnez This is not true. Invoicing is not some legally binding agreement that you think they've done their accounting properly. It is JUST to get paid.
You can invoice until the cows come home and still request an audit of their books at any time. There is 0 reason to not invoice for money owed. It does not legitimize or deligitmize their bookkeeping.
@ANewOnez@gojiguy I guess it depends on the country, every country can get different, but living in the US, i can easily see lawyers leveraging an invoice to claim "that's what they asked for, that's what they got paid for." Even in the states, success of such a claim would fluctuate from state to state.
@SSJW If Nintendo is making it hard then don't release on Switch, pretty simple I would say. I am fairly certain anyone can make a publishing company, I can go down to my government services building today and register one for like 150 bucks.
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Seems to me like there may have been some miscommunication on both ends but Dangen seems to be purposely muddying the waters, this is why you self publish people, stop using ***** publishers.
Is there anything we can do to help? - sign online petitions etc... ?
Obviously I don't really understand who is the villain here and whether there is fault on both sides or not - but I do understand that for devs not to be paid for months/years of work is very, very wrong. And for an IP to be potentially 'stolen' through cutthroat business practices.
I actually forgot I owned this game. Now I feel bad that the devs never got my money.
I grabbed this game on Steam a while ago and immediately refunded it after reading up on all of this. I hope they sort it out soon. I was looking forward to playing it but if the actual devs aren't getting my money, then... Nah.
@Jokerwolf It isn't so simple.
Picture this... You are totally unknown, you know how to code and/or design and/or have a bro that can help you with the other.
You decide to make a game, no reason to think it will succed, but still you try. Bills don't go anywhere so you might need sponsorship (maybe a spouse or your parents) or you may do it on your free time and risk a burnout with NO GUARANTEE of profit.
And do all that while sometimes enduring people telling you it isn't worth it, or why don't you get a real job.
And then comes a random dude that tells you he believes in you and offer you like 30k + a big part if not the bigger of the profit. And that 30k is not a loan, it is a payment, if the game doesn't sell, well, bad luck, but you don't owe anyone anything.
The guy will also handle selling and marketing so you don't even have to understand that, and the dude has already many succesful projects under his belt. You know that without him your 100% profit might be way smaller than his % offer.
There are many reasons even big companies go to publishers, but one way or another not all publishers are evil. And even the same publisher might have an different contract with different devs. Some might even let you have all rights of franchise.
Just to be clear, I am not defending Dangen. I am 100% in the side of the dev on this. But this doesn't mean publishers are always wrong.
I wonder if Limited Run Games could step in to mediate this issue?
LRG are doing a physical publication for Bug Fables soon, which is a game also published by Dangen. That was published much more recently though.
Uuuuuuggghhhhh. I just want to play the game but I refuse to buy it until things are sorted out. Frustrating for the developers and us consumers.
I've been holding off buying Devil Engine and all other Dangen connected games until this gets resolved.
I actually bought this game a while ago without prior knowledge of the situation. I feel bad the dev didn't get my money. Too bad Nintendo doesn't offer refunds... :/
Not that I think Dangen is necessarily correct, but it sounds like the dev might be sloppy in their business dealings and not up to speed.
@FantasiaWHT It feels like they're battling Dangen more out of principle at this point for taking advantage of them. I get it. They poured their blood sweat and tears into Devil Engine. For someone to them take advantage of them has to be infuriating. At the same time, you have to learn your lesson, take the losses and move on. Lastly, I really can't stand that a company like Dangen who clearly has terrible business practices keeps getting new games/work. Really happy I don't have to work in an industry as seemingly toxic as the game industry is.
@DeathUriel I bet you they learned their lesson, may as well just get a loan to cover publishing fees at that point. I grantee you I know enough about the internet I can make any decent game appealing through social media and the right people. I agree with you it may have a bit to do with naivety for sure.
@Jokerwolf Funny enough, big companies that have plenty of money still do it. Maybe just maybe it is because it is worth it, considering their specific situations that might or not apply to some random indie dev. Also, getting a loan still means you have to pay back, if it flops you flop.
Also, I never said anything about being naive.
Hope the Devs receive fair payment and their IP back soon. Devil Engine is exceptional.
DANGEN are utter C####. This game is fantastic, and i long to play the extra content the developers worked so hard to bring us. i can't believe that they haven't got paid for this, and i would assume that it sold pretty well.
@DeathUriel No I am saying new devs are generally naive when it comes to publishing, it can be and usually is a huge trap.
Is this something like poncho where the devs will get paid when the publisher makes back the invested money?
By all means, the publisher could be gaslighting everybody; but with all we’re working with (statements, emails), not sure how anyone could jump to the conclusion that the developer isn’t being their own problem in this situation.
Basically, “e-mail/call/contact my buddy with business stuff because I don’t want to be bothered with it.” (fair enough, that’s how most creative types handle their business). Buddy proceeds to drop the ball, dev skips straight to lobbing accusations at the publisher.
Publisher provides receipts to the public. Dev is cornered, throwing bs at the wall to see what sticks instead of admitting they might be wrong: “yeah, well maybe threats were second hand... uh, the numbers, uh, the numbers are forged...like a GEDORE ratchet...or something...and uh...look look, they just doxed my friend.”
I mean, whatever, I accept that they’re a solo developer (ie probably not all there...or at least half somewhere else). The situation is whatever. But for random people on the internet to see this and not only take sides...but side with the dev...only based on what they see? That’s silly.
Yeah this is awful and I think it's safe to say that Dangen probably won't get anymore Developers or trust.
Shame I was hoping this game would get a physical release.
Did they come up with dev name Protoculture before or after they made a ship look like a tiny Zentraedi cruiser?
Get the pitchforks!
To me it sounds so weird anyone in this situation would have to invoice to get paid. Why not send payment alongside the sales report? I’m sure there was already a share agreement.
There are always two sides to every story and Dangen’s actions seemed reasonable after the update to this article. 🤷🏻♂️
Pretty cool that they responded to you guys though. Kudos for giving a *****.
This situation is getting worse and worse.
11 emails over 6 months and no response from the devs? That's not the pubs fault.
Respond. Reply. Invoice.
This is basic *****. It could all end tomorrow if they'd just file the paperwork.
Regardless of what I think of Dangen, no other Dangen dev has had these issues.
@gojiguy Very much agreed.
@Tharsman
Good question!
Aside from the paper trail aspect, basically sending an invoice after receiving the sales report is confirming “Hey, these sales figures look good. Also the recoup costs you’re deducting look correct. Please pay me the amount based on the report.” which is important from a legal perspective.
If the figures or recoup costs don’t look right, you sort those discrepancies out before sending an invoice.
Edit: Clarity
@ANewOnez still sounds weird to me. Book authors, actors, directors, all deal with the same and they just have means to audit discrepancies later, still get paid as agreed in the meantime.
To me, it sounds like the publisher in this case would be able to use the invoice as a legal shield where the work author never gets paid until they either run a full audit or forgo the right to do one at a later point.
@Tharsman
Yeah the audit thing is also definitely true. Good point.
It could also be a banking issue as mentioned in the response. From my experience living in Japan, whenever you need to send money outside of the country, you have to indicate what that transfer is for as well as provide some sort of documentation. I guess that would be the invoice in this case.
The companies I’ve had experience with in Japan have always requested an invoice before disbursing a payment. Granted there could be exceptions?
@ANewOnez
This is not true. Invoicing is not some legally binding agreement that you think they've done their accounting properly. It is JUST to get paid.
You can invoice until the cows come home and still request an audit of their books at any time. There is 0 reason to not invoice for money owed. It does not legitimize or deligitmize their bookkeeping.
@ANewOnez @gojiguy I guess it depends on the country, every country can get different, but living in the US, i can easily see lawyers leveraging an invoice to claim "that's what they asked for, that's what they got paid for." Even in the states, success of such a claim would fluctuate from state to state.
@SSJW
Really?
@SSJW Then Nintendo can publish you as well or you register as a publisher yourself.
@SSJW If Nintendo is making it hard then don't release on Switch, pretty simple I would say. I am fairly certain anyone can make a publishing company, I can go down to my government services building today and register one for like 150 bucks.
@Tharsman @SSJW
Not even remotely true. Self publishing is still fine.
And in no country I have done business in (including US) does invoice have any relation to auditing.
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