Following the official reveal of Banjo-Kazooie as a DLC fighter for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Head of Xbox Phil Spencer caught up with Kotaku to discuss how exactly the Microsoft and Rare-owned character was able to make an appearance in the popular Nintendo fighter.
According to Spencer, the story isn't as interesting as some people might think. Microsoft already maintained positive relationships with Nintendo's third-party team, as it is one of the biggest third-party publishers on the Switch.
“Obviously we’re one of the biggest third-party publishers on Switch, so we have great relationships with their third-party team. And you’ve seen the ambition they’ve had with every character that’s ever been in Smash and even more. So it was just kind of part of the partnership relationship we have with them.”
It was so easy, in fact, Spencer explains how a lot of conversations you might expect to hear associated with a deal like this weren't required.
“There wasn’t anything kind of CEO-to-CEO that had to happen"
He said he had personally always been open to the idea of Banjo one day appearing in Nintendo's all-star fighting game:
“People have asked me on social [media]—I’m sure you’ve seen that—over many years: ‘Would I welcome having Banjo in Smash?’ and I’ve always been open to that.”
Spencer further explained how many fans seemed to forget Microsoft had been working with Nintendo for a long time now – helping to bring Rare's Donkey Kong Country series to the company's past digital services and devices as well as releasing certain games on its portable line of hardware.
That's why, from his perspective at least, there's not really an interesting story behind Banjo's appearance in Smash:
“The reason it’s not some interesting, deep conversation is because with us owning Rare and the history between those two things, there are a lot of conversations over the years about, ‘Hey, we want to do “X” is that ok?’”
What do you think about Phil's comments? Does this give you hope for the future? Tell us down in the comments.
[source kotaku.com.au]
Comments 78
Why on earth wouldn't they? It was a fantastic idea and they didn't have a strong reason not to.
Here's hoping we see more of the duo on Switch.
While this is really cool, I still feel more excited for Hero, personally.
Well they aren't doing anything new with him might as well give him back.
Can we get Kazooie and Tootie on Switch too please?
And Perfect Day and Conkers Bad fur and Killer Instinct. Ok ok I'm asking for too much
@liljmoore I really do think it's a very strong possibility now.
Of course he didn't. Microsoft has been trying to get him in since the last game.
@Kalmaro - There is only good for Microsoft to let this happen. Since they themselves cannot Rareware properly.
Most PR thing to say that it wasn't hard. Management is changing and Microsoft is more open to becoming a service provider for games. That is why it Xbox services are multi platform.
"Obviously, we're one of the biggest third-party publishers on Switch"
Erm, excuse me? Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate Microsoft's willingness to collaborate with Nintendo, but when New Super Lucky's Tale comes out that will only be like their third game on the platform, right? It's almost like a soft way of undermining their competition. Whatever, though, so long as they're getting along and collaborating.
Too dumb to make your own game and use your IP's? Have somebody else do it for you and get the profit. Seriously, it's time to bring rare back to a company that understands how to appeal to fans. Adopt them back.
If Nintendo ever did a Nintendo 64 mini, I bet a few Rare games would make the cut seeing Nintendo and Microsoft relationship going well.
Rare Replay on Switch when?
As much it bothers me that Microsoft hasn't done much with some of their older IPs (Banjo, Conkor, Fable), I do like their attitude toward the game industry. It's getting Microsoft's name out there more and making fans happy. Seriously, a few years ago I didn't have any access to Microsoft titles after trading in my XBOX One. Now I'm able to play all their new titles on my PC and even some on the Switch. Hope to see more from them!
I'm making a statement that a couple months from now I want you all to look back on. Banjo in Smash isn't the only collaboration between Microsoft and Nintendo that's going on right now. Let's just say Microsoft and Nintendo are partnering up on a few fun projects, one of these might see our favorite Bear and Bird back in action
I'd be down with Rare Replay on Switch.
Just throwing that out there.
I would love it if they released Rare Replay + DKC trilogy and DK64 on Switch. It sounds like it would be a win win for both Microsoft and Nintendo.
@Not_Soos I think what he's saying is more in the vain of "our company is bigger both in size and money than the other third parties" as opposed to "our company is releasing more games than the others". What he said could be interpreted either way.
Why would he had any problem? It wasn't his character and he knows Banjo still had fans within the Nintendo fanbase of the Switch. Having Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros. Ultimate was the best thing for everyone. Now all we need is Crash Bandicoot and we could finally duke it all them platform mascots Nintendo (Mario) vs. Capcom (Mega Man) vs. Sega (Sonic) vs. Konami (Simon Belmont) vs. Namco (Pac-Man) vs. Microsoft (Banjo-Kazooie) vs. Square (Cloud Strife) vs. Sony (Crash Bandicoot).
I have a feeling Xcloud might make an appearance on Switch one way or another. That will be a win for both Microsoft and Nintendo for offering 3rd party AAA games and even Microsoft own game for portable play. Nintendo doesn't have the capability to run streaming server like this, so if they had to offer game streaming, it'll be either Stadia or Xcloud. I'm sure Microsoft won't let Google to take that cake...
Nintendo can get profit by limiting these services behind their online subscription. Although game port might be less compelling for 3rd party if this happens.
For a long time, us Nintendo fans had been looking and asking MS to return the Banjo franchise to us for just not using them right... But we would never have expected back then that MS would approach us with Minecraft at first and then slowly build up a relationship with us like this. Not only we got Banjo back in the deal, but, basically speaking, MS is offering themselves along with Banjo and Rare. Also, with MS wanting to become a brand than a serious console competitor, we are in a prime position. With an opportunity like this, I am very happy that we can welcome MS in bringing in their games to us and we can help them establish a good presence in Nintendo and Japan down the road. It would be wise to ask for their input and assistance in online infrastructure and in making our next gen system so we can make sure everything works for all of us involved.
Come on, "Steve" Mii Swordfighter!
crossing fingers for doomslayer and rex/mythra for the final 2 spots.
Why would Microsoft have a problem with Nintendo advertising their (Microsoft) IP in Nintendo's game.
But the reason it happened at all is because right now Nintendo and Microsoft are working together to combat the current undisputed console war lead, Sony.
@PBandSmelly There isn't much interrest in a new Banjo game, and is why they won't make one as it won't sell much on Xbox.
I have never owned an XBox because the exclusives have never interested me in the same way Nintendo and PlayStation exclusives have. I've always seen XBox as a FPS shooter playground instead of offering unique and interesting gaming experiences. Moves like this make me reconsider my thoughts even if I'm not jumping on the XBox wagon any time soon.
@Nego I'm in the same boat. But if they manage to get Japan on board due too sonys current censorship craze, I will gladly switch from ps to Xbox next generation.
Time to get jiggy with it!
Don't be a pain in the backside now and just bring Rare replay (everything on the card) and a new Banjo to Switch, please!! Whatever the case, we didn't get the Banjo games on either the Wii or Wii u, and the demand was sky high (maybe less on Wii u since that console bombed). If Microsoft is so loose with their franchises (as I often hear) they could easily bring the stuff to Switch.
Maybe they should just turn Rareware in a multiplatform-company. I mean: What did the Microsoft exclusivity bring Microsoft? Nothing, it all flopped (as far as I know). Imagine a good new Banjo on Switch and/or Replay: Sales would totally go through the roof!!
Just give us the Banjo Games or Rare Replay on switch, COME ON!!!
Look how popular the Crash re-make was, Banjo will be the same
Rare replay and banjo threeie please
Now it is time to bring Donkey Kong Country SNES trilogy to Switch, please
To bad Microsoft bought Rare. PLEASE Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Microsoft not know what to do with Rare and ruined them? If that's the case then shame on whomever, (Nintendo?) for selling them off...but I don't really know the full story. Maybe someone could clarify it. I mean the biggest reaction at the Nintendo Store E3 Reaction was the addition of Banjo to Smash. The place went nuts.
Rare Replay please
@JR150
I'm on the same page, simply because i know Banjo only since Rare-Replay for XboxOne was released, before that i heard of him but i didn't know him, meanwhile Dragon Quest 8 was one of my most important entries besides Persona 3/4 which opened a new world to me, because with these Games i learned to enjoy Roundbased JRPGs... before that except Pokemon and Heroes of Might & Magic 3, i really disliked anything Roundbased and found it boring... and thanks to that i discovered great (classics) Games like Final Fantasy 7. Also another huge Part of it, due i grew up with Dragonball (Z) and also Dr Slump was part of my younger days i'm a huge fan of the Akira Toriyama Artstyle.
@Joe-b
To be honest, that's one thing which still confuse me up to this date, and even more after i could play some of the Gems in Rare Replay which i missed out, but for me it often sounds like an Nintendo-Bias for salty Fans who already need to trashtalk Rare did since Microsoft owned simple for the fact that Microsoft owned it. If you aren't an diehard nintendo x rare fan, i would say, while there might some missteps, they overall delievered still great games even with the flag of Microsoft. Viva Pinata, Kameo and heck, even Sea of Thieves are onpar with me with great classics like Conker or Banjo (where i also have to add, it feel even more biased if i see banjo fans trashtalk yokaa laylee, which also for me was kinda onpar with banjo[keep in mind that Yooka is an indie game)... so for me it tends more of the typical nostalgic childhood memories which this games push so up that high... rather more an openminded approach... however that's something which i tend often to see with other games anway as example cRPG where everything is worse then Baldurs Gate and for me it feels like... that it's an overstatement based on their own bias instead of fair judging).
@Dev893:
I hope so. Sea of Thieves is an great Game, i enjoy how it catch like other Rare Games the simplicity but still addicting Gameplay and the Rare-Charme..., but Microsoft / Xbox would need more of such Games like Banjo (proper JumpNRun/Adventures). I feel kinda bad if i look back that Xbox, while the plattform itself flopped so hard, had still a variety of great Games if i look at as example Blinx and such...
/edit: I also have to add, if someone owns an X1 and still didn't bought it, i can everyone recommend the Rare-Replay Collection. One of the best Collections which i've ever had besides the Master-Chief-Collections, and that's not only because of their games but also the way how such an Collection is delievered in general. The Interface, the extras, the Content(you have like 30[?] Games) etc...
Big fan of how Microsoft has gone about their business with the XBox brand lately. Backwards comparability, Game Pass (and the affordability of Game Pass Ultimate), how they're working with other companies, putting their games on Steam, how their XCloud service allows you to still physically own the games you also stream if you want. They've been a delight since Phil Spencer came around, he seems to genuinely care and like he gets it. It's nice.
Wouldn't you gave preferred the Battletoads over Banjo to represent Rare in Smash? That's a franchise that goes way back to Nes and seem like a better fit for a fighting game. Or maybe I'm just old-school.
Diddy Kong racing would be an ideal way to bring Nintendo and Microsoft on to the switch. Best kart racing game ever and both companies owning characters from the game. What better way to also take some shine away from crash nitro aswell. It would sell absolutely bucket loads.
So much could be done with this Nintendosoft partnership its ridiculous.
@Shunk1 Battletoads does make a nice choice for a next Rare rep for Smash.
@jtmnm
Surely it'll come eventually. They have to see the success of legacy/retro games on Nintendo platforms, especially Switch. There is a big segment of gamers who are longtime Nintendo fans and do not have an Xbox to play Rare Replay but would jump at the chance to play these games again that the majority of them were on past Nintendo consoles. When the rumors first started of Microsoft working with Nintendo to get games on Switch Replay was the first game most thought of, but Cuphead was also a nice surprise and treat.
@rdrunner1178 and why wouldnt Cuphead come to Switch? MDHR Studios is that one studio besides Rare that deserves more money than just on XBox or PC for all their dedicated work in just one game when given the chance. They earned the right to be on Switch.
@JR150 said nobody ever
Will Nintendo games come to Xbox with improved performance? That would be neat. Switch becomes an Xbox handheld and xb1x becones a Nintendo console.
@retroxdp It only works because XBox and Switch aren't direct threats to each other. If MS was selling a handheld, this wouldn't be happening. Or if Nintendo had a powerhouse machine. For now maintaining the status quo helps both of them. And MS less and less cares about the box and wants to sell services/brands, so they're keeping their positioning open.
@Not_Soos By volume of games MS doesn't compare to, say, Square, but Minecraft alone represents a silly amount of sales on Switch. I wouldn't be surpised if in sales MS was one of the biggest.
@Kriven Yes. MS is focusing mostly on online games, and but they still make some single player games. They had a bunch this gen, but most probably didn't sell well.
Rare is adding so much content to Sea of Thieves that they don't have time to make anything else soon.
But as we know, Banjo would probably sell like only 1000 copies on Xbox, so there is no point.
@Wanjia Yes, but they make it 2D this time as 3D one didn't deliver.
Yooka Laylee went quickly down in price, so i don't think it sold that well as reviews overall weren't that good, and same from gamers. It have also been in charity bundles etc.
If sales were good for Yooka, then they would make a 3D sequel instead.
@HammerKirby
lol I just did
I'm happy to see the bird and bear in Smash, but I'd be much happier just to get Rare Replay on Switch (I have it on Xbox One, but I'd rather have these on a Nintendo console where they truly belong).
The best thing ever would be a Diddy Kong Racing remake or remaster on Switch.
Xbox Cloud "whatever" on the Switch very soon.
@Spoony_Tech They actually haven't been trying to get Banjo in the game since last game they just said during the last games life cycle that he would be perfectly okay with Banjo in Smash, he was just saying that he would be okay with it and not I really want Sakurai to put it in the game.
@Kalmaro why they wouldn't? Because Nintendo would never allow anything on the Xbox. Never ever ever
I hope the relationship strengthens more, and see more from both sides.
Nintendo lending out an IP and Microsoft vice versa, I would love to see Killer instinct and banjo (or conker) appear on a Nintendo console.
Also their relationship convinces me even more to buy the new Xbox Scarlet! Next to my Nintendo Console. I'm done with Sony.
I used to like Phil Spencer on the TV show location, location location. He's come a long way since!
@Joe-b Basically Nintendo didn't care about Rare because it is a Western studio and sold their share (49%) to Microsoft at a time when Rare was expecting Nintendo to acquire the studio because they basically saved SNES with Donkey Kong Country and made the best N64 games. Microsoft bought the shares instead. Some members left the company and created new companies but other people stayed and were happy, including Banjo-Kazooie's designer Gregg Mayles and Killer Instinct and Conker's Bad Fur Day composer Robin Beanland. After this some talents joined the company.
Rare started releasing games for Nintendo's handhelds (so this business is not new) and created the Xbox and 360 games, some of them are masterpieces like Viva Piñata. Then they were asked to create the Xbox avatars, Kinect games and assist other developers. Some time later, they co-developed Killer Instinct, created the compilation, the new avatars and developed Sea of Thieves, which is one of the most beautiful games I've ever played and I mean the visuals and not the online experience which is a mixed bag like in every other online game. Next thing that they'll do, we'll see and I hope that we'll see Banjo-Kazooie!
@BlueOcean wow! Thanks for the explanation. Nintendo prob should have kept them.
@Joe-b No problem.
@TheLightningYu I agree.
@Kidfunkadelic83 Diddy Kong Racing would be absolutely great as a remake. It's the best mascots racer and it has a strong story mode, multiplayer and epic boss races. It was beautiful back in the day and it was the first to have cars, planes and hovercrafts. Imagine how a remake in 60 fps would look and play!
Now it's the time for Microsoft and Nintendo to make a remake possible on both platforms.
@The-Chosen-one Scarlett and Switch sound like the perfect combo to me.
@BlueOcean it would certainly knock the stale formula of Mario kart from the top of the podium for sure. The adventure mode was amazing.
@N1ntendodo You speak like you own Nintendo; instead you just own a Nintendo. 😂😂
@HumanDog Depends on the game. I remember when Octopath Traveler seemed like a Switch exclusive. Now it's on PC!
But I bet Nintendo would never let a main IP cross sides.
@Lordd_G As a 28 year old gamer who majored in accounting in college, I picked up some sense of skill and insight to what’s going on. It just feels good to me to listen and pay attention to certain things. After all this time, I do feel like a professional in reading gaming news and seeing considerable possibilities instead of being a near sighted uncultured junkie who looks only after himself.
well no sh**, if they did have a problem with it, it never would have happened, its their ip.
"Would it be a problem if this underused IP got in the spotlight of this immensely popular one?"
"How about we bring this "Rare Replay" game you have back to the roots of Rare, opening up the entire Japanese market and the worldwide Nintendo market to it?"
Both seem like no-brainers.
Microsoft and Nintendo are both by far my favorite gaming companies at the moment, and what do you know they happen to be very friendly in general and towards each other. Not to rip on the Sony crowd but they seem to be a lot more closed off and I am generally not that big on their games.
@BlueOcean Yeah with Microsoft and Nintendo being on good terms and Microsoft being nice about the use of their Rare IP I am hoping that we can finally get a proper remake of Diddy Kong Racing! As a longtime fan of racing games I always loved that one, it is a special experience that I would love to play again.
@JayJ Diddy Kong Racing is the best mascots racing game ever, we need a 60 fps remake.
@Shambo What exactly do you mean by "bring it to the roots"?
@BlueOcean small correction: Nintendo sold their 49% stake after Microsoft purchased the 51% stake from the Stampers.
@RevampedSpider - I don't know where that came from, cause didn't say anything of the sort.
More information about Rare's history here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_(company)
@Arkay Corrected.
@RevampedSpider True, it's more like Nintendo didn't want to fund games when development costs increased and also Nintendo didn't want to acquire the company. Nintendo didn't appreciate Rare enough in spite of all the amazing games that they made for SNES and N64. Rare even created the new Donkey Kong model.
@BlueOcean - There is a bit more to that as one of Rare's team even confirmed. With Rare constantly delaying games later in their relationship with Nintendo, coupled with failures of GBA titles and late N64 titles (Blast Corps being pretty predominant), Nintendo wasn't on board with buying the company. Especially since, in recent years, had a record of costing them more than they were making. Rare was in a deep end.
So one of the Stamper Brothers started to get a bidding war started, hoping that Nintendo would just buy into them and seal their fortune. Nintendo didn't take the bait as they were already knee-deep with searching for western markets elsewhere (one of them being Retro). MS won out the bid and legal talks with Nintendo began shortly after. Nintendo let go of all Rare property rights and sent them on their way.
@Paraka Nintendo is a bit ungrateful if you ask me.
@BlueOcean - Business is business, without buying Rare Nintendo was able to shift investment to Retro and we got Metroid Prime and DKCR. And with the prolonged eternity we waited for Star Fox Adventures and Kameo delayed into oblivion, coupled with the 4 years wait MS fans had to wait for Rare's first game turning out to be Grabbed by the Ghoulies, I'd say they made a smart move.
Rare wasn't enough of Rare we knew by that time.
@Paraka Rare is different now but still a very good developer. Retro is not Retro anymore either and the American Nintendo development team wasn't allowed to make more Wave Race games. Nintendo is not as intelligent as I would like them to be and they keep messing around with Western studios.
I liked Grabbed by the Ghoulies but it's true that later games were better. Viva Piñata is a masterpiece and Sea of Thieves is awesome.
@BlueOcean - I wouldn't argue Rare isn't a good developer anymore, I mean... Microsoft still has them around, that's saying something. What's also saying something is Rare isn't even on their own creations much anymore. Battletoads, Killer Instinct, hell even Conker was used in another company's project. Rare we knew and Rare now are different Rare.
And at the time Rare needed to shine is when Nintendo went with Retro. Sure, Retro isn't itself much anymore as they were then, but they were what Retro needed to be at the time Rare wasn't.
And at this same time, Retro has a history that is insane as to why Nintendo gobbled them up so quickly. Like the founder shuttering Acclaim by talent poaching and RUNNING A SOFTCORE PORN SITE WITH NINTENDO'S BUDGETS TO THE COMPANY! All this happening in succession to what Rare was attempting to do as well.
So yeah, likely Nintendo saw a profit > risk with Retro investment by removing the head there and taking over as opposed to a consistently floundering company at the time.
Sure, Rare would be in a different place if Nintendo took that leap. The company may have experienced a downsizing and solid focus, but Banjo may have been in Smash since Brawl and received Banjo-Foursies by now. But on the other hand, Prime wouldn't have been a thing, so the Metroid franchise may been in limbo. You know, like F-Zero.
I still think Banjo and Kazooie's final smash should be Banjo-Pilot related LOL
On-topic: I'm pretty sure I do recall seeing a comment from him that he'd be open to having Banjo in smash or something like that anyways. I mean it just makes sense and feels right. Why not? lol
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