Feature: Meet Axe, The Smash Bros. Underdog Who Changed The Competitive Scene Overnight

Good for him, now do it with Smash Ultimate. Melee isn't as fun to watch.

insert complaint against competitive Smash here

The whole- low tier/top tier thing in Melee is stupid. You’re stuck playing with 3-4 characters that are the only competitive ones. No thanks. Ultimate for the win.

He did the same combo with his pikachu over and over again. So unpleasant to look at.

Good for him! This was a very well done interview, and the little aside about “Zig-Zag” was very entertaining. It really helped to humanize both the interviewer and the interviewee.

@Tendogamerxxx Thanks for taking the time out to read. Now that we’ve got this sentiment out of the way early, feel free to discuss Melee, everyone.

@theabstractart All features are written ahead of time and scheduled out in advance. Just something to keep in mind, thanks for reading.

I don't really care about tier lists. Because that's just labeling a character as either the strongest or weakest, it's the Player that determines that not the lists, I mean some of the greats like Armada or ZeRo they make the plays that make the characters epic.

Hi Axe... I am Byron

Zero put it decently recently when he described Smash characters like a tool kit: some tools will let you build different things more easily, but what matters is the carpenter being comfortable with the tool kit. Look at MKLeo. He takes characters with solid fundamentals like Ike and Lucina and now Joker and makes some of the best players in Ultimate look like kids at locals. Nobody else is getting the same kinds of results with Joker, that's not just the character. But he does consistently gravitate to characters with solid fundamentals, not characters with one or two gimmicks.

Neat interview. I've watched a bit of Axe, and he's an exciting player to watch. He's good at mindgame stuff: him versus Hungrybox is a lot of fun. I'd be down for more NintendoLife Esports coverage in general.

@theabstractart But they did...

@ComposedJam https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x4jNwOFQsJU

Though I never said I liked ultimate better because of speed. The game looks better, more diverse and balanced roster and its still pretty speedy.

@Kalmaro oops lol

@Pandaman oops haha sorry

Just my opinion but competitive gaming is just mehhh to me. I play games to play them not to be the best or to compete. Yes I play games like smash, paladins, street fighter, sports etc but I play to win for myself and have just always cared less about competing in any real tourneys as that would be the point to me where gaming would not be fun anymore and I would start to hate even playing. Most people I know are the same way.
So as far as tourneys go anyways there is always someone better as most people actually don't even bother to join in them as they either have life or care less about even doing it and then there are the ones that cannot join for other reason ( costs, parents, transportation etc.) many people are just to poor to even afford it period. This alone makes them pretty worthless to me but hey I give props to those that do play. For what I don't know but hey more power to you.

@Kalmaro So when you watch a soccer match, do you sit there thinking "great, now go and do it in baseball"

There is a competitive scene for many different games. Watch the ones you enjoy?

@Flowerlark I think Axe is the first player in a long time to do this well with Pikachu, judging by the commentary.

@BMOC not a very good example. It would be more like watching someone play soccer with older equipment with older rules and such instead of using more up to date stuff.

Impressive? Sure, but would be nice to see something more current.

This is cool and all for people who are big into SSB.

Can we get some articles like this for major Pokemon tournaments? VGC and TCG?

Maybe Splatoon 2 events too?

These leagues are stupid and this is why. There are many many players who could compete in video game competitions successfully but very few who have the time or inclination to do so. Holding these players on a pedestal and saying they are the best is ridiculous. Your friend down the street who kills at (pick the game) is every bit as qualified. The seriousness the announcers inflect is also very cringe worthy to me.
That point aside, I wont watch other people play videogames. Its always driven me crazy and goes back to my friend never giving up the controller. Id go home. Im not sitting there when I could be playing instead of watching.

Next point
These seem to just be comercials for the publisher.
Where is the Bomberman competition?
Being good at just one game isnt convincing to me, multiple game competitions would be the most impressive but again these are probably just commercials so there wouldnt be any interest unless they also publish all the games. Annd then you can see thats the case.

@Heavyarms55 Are there any of those out there?

If there's a big competitive scene for outdated games like Melee, I wanna see an Urban Champ or Super Spike V-Ball tournament covered on here.

@Priceless_Spork As much as I'd like to see a Bomberman tournament I can't see it happening. Usually in these tournaments they want no items/powerups & on neutral stages. Bomberman is at its best with as many people running around with things going nuts.

@Riderkicker
Yes but Im the best

@Riderkicker
Well those competitions would probably have only a limited appeal to just people who love retro games. So probably a success. But it wont sell Overwatch.

@Riderkicker Pokemon has a huge competitive scene for both the video games and card games with official tournaments attracting hundreds of players, more at the major international level. It goes all the way up to a world tournament held every year. It's quite the event with different levels for kids, teens and adults. Fans also host their own tournaments online rather often via discord and forums. I know in the US there was, at one point, and entirely fan run league of college "teams" playing and even and east and west conference. That was a few years ago, I don't know if that one is still active or not.

I don't know for sure about in the west, but here in Japan I have seen several major Splatoon 2 events as well, but I don't know that competitive scene as well to say any details.

@Heavyarms55 I may have misread but this is for melee. It's in the first line.

@Kalmaro You did misread my comment, as I pointed out how this was cool for Smash fans. And then I proceeded to ask for similar articles for other games like Pokemon and Splatoon. Which never get the love they deserve because everyone gushes over Smash like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Smash is cool and a fun game, but there are plenty of other competitive games that deserve coverage like this and rarely, if ever get it.

Yet here is Melee, a Gamecube title, still getting covered like it's just that special.

@Heavyarms55 I see what I did. I misread SSB as SSBB. I must be tired.

@Kalmaro Ah, I can totally understand that.

I wouldn't use the word "overnight", he's been a prominent competitor in all big tournaments for like 10+ years and everyone knew he could do it, was just a matter of time (Armada quitting and dodging HBox in the bracket also helped). But stupid nitpicking aside, this was a great interview, especially the Zig-Zag part lol

@Kalmaro "It would be nice to see something more current"

You can. There are ultimate tournaments all the time.

Baseball and softball. Rugby Union and rugby league. World's Strongest Man and Highland games. Professional Boxing and Toughman competitions.

There are heaps of different sports and games, many of which are traditional versions of other more updated versions, coexisting, appealing to different people. The existence of one doesn't take away from the existence of the other. You don't like it? Don't watch it, and go watch ultimate instead. These players prefer Melee, so why would they play ultimate? And why should they? It makes no sense.

@BMOC I know there's ultimate tournaments, hence why I'd like to see how he does there. Rather than sticking with older stuff. There a reason melee isn't in EVO anymore. People are tired of watching it.

Ultimate is objectively better.

@Heavyarms55 - I'd love to talk to Pokemon and Splatoon competitors. I don't know any! Feel free to refer any of them to me on twitter.

@Pandaman I'd do that if I used Twitter.

@Kalmaro "People are tired of watching it"

That's an objectively false statement, for an obvious example you can scroll to the top of the page and look at the photo that goes with this article. You might be tired of it, so might others, yet there are still melee tournaments, and still crowds going to watch melee tournaments, and still many people who play melee.

People play things because they like them, not to please you.

How can Ultimate be "objectively better"? It's different. Given that these people play, or watch, based on what they enjoy, "better" is entirely subjective.

But hey, maybe you're right, go to one of these tournaments and get on the mic address the crowd and say "guys, people are tired of watching this, ultimate is objectively better". I'm sure they'll all drop melee immediately.

@BMOC Actually, support for smash melee tournaments have been dwindling for a while now. That's a fact. Some people like it but it's a dwindling base and has been.

And Ultimate is better. There's nothing wrong with that either, melee is just outdated. I say that as a huge melee fan.

@Vectorman
It was sarcasm.

Delete all the comments here lol, kids are too young to appreciate Melee. Ironic that these players have been on the grind for almost two decades, yet they are lightweights because modern crowds are unable to appreciate anything past 5 years ago. Cherish your heritage and support the people who still engage with the fabric of what has made games what they are. Progress is not linear many older games exceeded their counterparts; it's foolish to eschew something solely because it's unfamiliar.

@OptometristLime Talking down on people who don't agree with you doesn't make your position any better. Melee was my life when it came out during middle school for me. I would play it for hours every day and it has a lot of happy memories for me.

Now that I'm older and have ultimate I can say that the game is better. It's taken what Melee had and improved on it. What's really sad is that people can't accept that games can be improved on. Melee was not perfect in any way. It was an unbalanced mess. Fox on final destination basically became a meme before memes were cool.

@Kalmaro guess what these players are older too, there is nothing intrinsic about your perspective that would supersede the way they view the game. Your argument condenses to: the previous game is obsolete because certain points have been improved upon (read: changed) in the sequel, the original now lacks merit or is undesirable in the modern day. There are plenty of original games which are stymied with quirks which would likely defeat the modern player yet their communities are active in pushing what is possible.

Oh, I see you're the one who made the initial comment on this page. Never mind then, tremendously selfish perspective to ask an athlete to change their venue — almost their sport — so it's more convenient for you personally to watch them.

@OptometristLime Not entirely self centered, I'd like to see them play a better version of Smash. Especially since it would only help them if they are hoping to make a name for themselves. People are shifting to ultimate and the Melee base is shrinking and not getting as much publicity as they used to. Not being at Evo and their other venues seeing smaller audiences watching melee is not helping.

As for "𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘨𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘺𝘮𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘳𝘬𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘦𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘯 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘦𝘳"

I'm not seeing any of those in melee. That is what we're talking about here right?

I don't understand why some people don't understand that Melee and Ultimate can coexist. They have different mechanics! Heck, Melee's wavedash is such a great movement option we got one of the greatest mods (Project-M) ever and several great indie platform fighters: Rivals of Aether, Slap City, Icons Combat Arena (sadly, Icons is literally dead).

@Vectorman I think you're confused about what objective and subjective mean. Imagine saying Return of the Jedi is objectively better than A New Hope. You can list off that the budget is better, the special effects are superior, the actors and writers had more experience, etc etc. It doesn't make it "better". It's an entertainment product, it's purpose is to entertain, and what entertains one person is not the same as another. You think it's better, other people think Melee is better. That's why they still play it. It's an entirely subjective opinion.

"people should not prefer clearly inferior versions of anything" LOL. People should not like what they like? You should probably worry less about the fact that people like different things to you, that's life. And people that can't accept that are extremely annoying to be around.

@Kalmaro No one is denying that less people play Melee now than in the past. But people still play it, and others still watch it. You think Ultimate is better. They think Melee is better. It's an entertainment product and a piece of art, it's ridiculous to try and suggest one game, movie, painting, book, etc. is "objectively" better than another. If someone enjoys one more than the other, then they think it is better, in the ways that matter to them, it's a subjective judgement. You could perhaps make an argument for aspects of it being better, it runs at a better resolution, has a higher poly count, etc. But as an overall experience? That's a subjective judgement. Is every mario sequel objectively better than it's prequel? What about every Zelda game?

Anyway, keep telling people who are playing the game that they enjoy most, that they should play a game they enjoy less. Because that makes heaps of sense.

@Luffymcduck I don't understand it either, I suspect because they are young children, and that's how young children think. "I like this better so you should like this better too"

@BMOC Pretty sure some of the people not agreeing with you are older than you think, but that's off topic. Throwing age around doesn't really help the discussion anyway.

The guy should move onto Ultimate if he wants to really get his name out there. Melee isn't dead but it doesn't have the exposure it used to have. Judging from the interview it looks like he'd like to get more attention. He's not going to do that in melee.

Melee and Ultimate can coexist sortof, but Ultimate is making that difficult and pushing melee out. The only reason I even said ultimate was better was because someone brought up Melee's speed as a plus. Then things kinda spiraled from there.

Imagine someone working for a Nintendo based publication interviewing someone who plays Nintendo games at a high tournament level who's recently won a tournament being considered opportune time to make arguments half the internet has already made that are largely unrelated to the sentiment of the article because you think its useful to throw shade at people who enjoy a game played in a way that you personally don't.

Just don't play the game. Let people enjoy things. Why is this so hard

@Kalmaro Pretty sure he can and should do what he wants.

There are still smash 64 tournaments. There are still SF2 tournaments. There will always be something that is most popular, so what? That's not coexisting sort of, that's coexisting. Coexisting doesn't mean in equal size, proportion, or popularity, it just means they both exist. Melee is more popular than 64, brawl, and sm4sh. So obviously there is something people really like about it. Who's to say which game will last the longest. Will people still be playing ultimate in 10 years? Or Melee? Or the next one? Will the next one be a big disappointment like Brawl was? Was Brawl objectively better than Melee?

You want to play ultimate, play ultimate. You think high level melee players aren't aware that ultimate exists or the size of the scene? You think this guy is dumb or something?

I know people that just love melee and play it all the time. They've played ultimate, but they don't like it as much, so they don't play it.

Unless someone's actions are unethical, there is no reason to tell them they "should" do anything unless they are asking for your advice or help. I think he's a big boy and can decide for himself what he wants to play. Imagine telling someone else they "should" entertain themselves in a different way. Try to imagine that. You don't have to, because you're doing it.

@BMOC I think I'm going to end it here, we seem to be talking past each other. I said he should move to ultimate because he seems to want to make it big and hell be able to make it bigger on ultimate.it's as simple as that.

Je also clearly enjoys playing pikachu and there's some fun tech in ultimate he'd probably like but whatever. Obviously he can do whatever he wants.

@Vectorman I'm not a Melee player, I play ultimate.

The irony of accusing others of being elitist while you sit there and claim to know the thoughts and feelings of others.

You're also claiming that sales figures is proof that one game/movie/etc. is objectively better than another. Seriously... All the highest grossing box office films are objectively the best films? This is a laughable proposition. As is the idea that because Sakurai "worked hard" this means, no, "proves" that each sequel is objectively better than the last.

All the games play differently, and people play what they enjoy. I play ultimate because it's more popular and it has online, so it's easy for me to find people to play with. But I still enjoy Melee more, and would play it if I had people to play it with.

Time to shush child.

@Kalmaro End it whenever you like. I think you've said rather a lot more than that, but it makes sense that you would try to distance yourself from many of your earlier comments.

@Vectorman Then you need to make a case why in "this case" it serves as evidence. Especially given that the gamecube had a much smaller install base than the Wii.

"I never claimed to know the thoughts & feelings of others"

Oh really?

"they're stuck in their ways like a stubborn mule and can't accept any good changes"

"how dare you disrespect The Great Mr. Masahiro Sakurai"

Lol, what the hell is wrong with you?

" "Easy to find people to play with online"? Is that cause nobody wants to play with you in person? Huh?"

I said that I play ultimate instead of melee because it has online, among other factors, whereas melee does not have an online mode. So your comment makes no sense. And as you stated yourself, more people play ultimate. So obviously it's easier to find people to play it with. None of my co-workers play melee, many of them play ultimate.

I hit 30 some time ago. Kid.

@Vectorman You want to use game sales as an argument, and you don't think it's relevant how many people actually own the console the game is made for? Hahaha, wow.

""Among other factors", as in it's better and has more"

This would be another example of you assuming another's thoughts.

"I"m older & more mature than you. You're nowhere near 30, you didn't hit it long ago, and if you did, Grow the heck up & act your age & don't be so immature! Be mature, like me. Or at least try to be nice & set a good example, like me. Thank you."

Adults simply don't speak like this, sorry.

@Vectorman "I've already proven I'm way more adult than you"

Hahahahahaha

Perhaps you should publish a research paper on that.

@Vectorman You have a childish conception of what constitutes "proof".

@Vectorman when someone presumes to have a more relevant opinion on competitive Smash than Axe himself, as the other was proclaiming, I describe that presumptuous opinion as only possible in a child. In other words a person who is yet unable to realize the size of the world and how irrelevant their own thoughts and actions are besides a wider context.

The opinion you quoted of mine was that many games which are sequels in fact do not live up to their source material and are disappointing in some way. If you take Melee and compare that to Brawl then you see a divergence in the way fans perceive the series' evolution. And for me it solidified the things in Melee which simply could not be topped in terms of speed of play, combos, and the overall game feel.

I almost forgot...

Thank you for this great article. I hope to see more esport related articles in the future.

@Vectorman Your reasons are not proof. Go and google the word, you clearly have no understanding of its meaning. You're simply giving your opinion. You think that the title proves that it's the best? Because they called it "ultimate"? You are making a total fool of yourself.

Logic dictates that how good a game is is not determined by the title, or how good the creator says it is. The creator is selling a product. Why even bother with game reviews if that's the case? Just read the title of the game and ask the developers if they think it is the best.

According to your logic, it is basically impossible for a sequel to be inferior to a prequel. So game reviews are a completely redundant and unnecessary endeavour. All the articles on this website that rank games in a series are a waste of time (and wrong), they should just put them in the chronological order in which they were developed and claim the latest one is the best.

As for: "plays too fast/can't tell what's happening", that's probably the result of the same defect that leads to these ridiculous opinions, which OptomertristLime correctly stated, could only be held by a child, or at least, a child's mind.

@Vectorman You think that if the makers of a game say it's the best, then that is proof that it's the best. This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

How many game developers release a game and say "it's worse than the prequel, and worse than other games".

Your entire premise implies that game reviews serve no purpose. Apparently, according to you, game reviews only get it right when they agree with the claims of the developer. Again, one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

That is the why and how. You think that simply saying something is so, is evidence, in fact "proof" that it is so. This is not how reality works. I have said that you are dumb, does this "prove" you are dumb? Do words have no meaning? If I said it, it must be true right?

It's not about whether reviews should be trusted or not, it's about the fact that whether one game is better than another is an entirely subjective judgement. It depends on what the person making the judgement likes. And it certainly doesn't depend on whether the developer says it's the best, which is what they ALWAYS say, because they are SELLING A PRODUCT.

As for insults, you've made plenty yourself, accusing people who prefer melee of being stubborn, stuck in their ways, unable to change, elitist, etc. You are also arrogant, referring to yourself as being smart and logical and rational. You should be mocked, because you're arrogant and you insult other people and you make poor childish arguments.

@Vectorman Actually, you did say it was the best because the creators say it's the best. I quote:

"You think they would call it "Ultimate" if it wasn't? Yeah, right"

"The Nintendo company and the title are gonna lie about their product. ( Sarcasm/rolls eyes ). It's got Ultimate in the title, it's admitting it's the best"

"IF words have no meaning, what's the point?"

So the creator's word's cannot be wrong, but a reviewers words can be wrong? How does that make sense? You need to stop worshipping Nintendo and Sakurai. It's not about whether words have meaning, it's about whether someone's opinion is fact, when the entire thing is subjective.

Actually judgement is spelled with an e between the g and the m. I would have thought someone as smart as you would have looked that up in the dictionary before posting that. This is another way you are making a fool of yourself.

I already did say why or how you were rude to others.

I'm starting to suspect you are actually a troll, no one could be this ridiculous. A+ very convincing.

@Vectorman Why do you say the same things over and over? It's really weird.

Omg, you fool, if you go to the dictionary, you will find that it is one of those words that is spelled both ways. Obviously if you just literally "google" the word you will get results for either spelling. Do I need to do all your thinking for you?

@Vectorman Is there such a thing as Karma? I guess like the question of which smash bros game is best, you think that if you simply say it is so, then it is so. And if there is Karma, then perhaps you best worry for yourself, because I think Karma would look poorly upon those that declare the preferences of others to be the result of being stubborn, stuck in their ways, elitist, etc. and declaring yourself to be the cleverest, nicest, smartest, etc.

Anyhow, go have your shower, and revel in your new experience of the ignore button. Big day for you! Best you have an early night!

@Vectorman It's not objectively the best because "Multiple other people & sources say so", the exact same reason you think "proves" Ultimate is the best. That's why it's a subjective judgement