The proportion of female employees in hardware and software development departments at Nintendo was one of the many topics raised during the company’s recent Q&A session, which has now been translated. According to Nintendo Director and Senior Managing Executive Officer Shinya Takahashi, the company has created a comfortable environment for the many females in the software development departments:
“There are many female developers in the software development departments. Especially, there are many design works involved in developing software, and very high number of females among our designers. Many of them have children, and we have created an environment to work with comfort even for those who have children. I think that it is a very good workplace where women can participate actively and find satisfaction in their work.”
Shigeru Miyamoto further elaborated on Takahashi’s response, pointing out how the Animal Crossing series has a female director and noting how development companies in Europe and the US were predominantly comprised of males:
“There are also many females actively involved in development. The director of the Animal Crossing series is a woman, and there are many female designers working actively. When I had chances to look at other development companies in Europe and the US, they give the impression that they’re overwhelmingly male-dominated. Compared to companies like that, Nintendo has a lot of female developers energetically working.”
Nintendo Director and Senior Executive Officer Ko Shiota finished up by saying how Japan did not have a high volume of female employees in certain engineering professions:
"This is a common issue in Japan that there is not a high percentage of female workers in engineering professions like hardware development and systems development. And it’s true in our company that compared to software development, the percentage of female workers in hardware development is low. However, Nintendo’s work includes approach to unique technologies, so I believe the proportion of female employees could potentially change in the future.”
Something else Nintendo likes is hiring people that like stuff beyond just gaming so they're well-rounded for inspiration and the like. Yeah, it's sometimes good to look at other games and incorporate a lot of their gameplay mechanics, but at the same time getting a different perspective on things can give some really cool ideas. For example, Shigesato Itoi is not primarily a game designer, he's a writer first and foremost. But his unique skills gave Mother 1-3 a very unique charm that nothing else can replicate.
So having people from all walks of life, male or female or whatever leads to quite a lot of creative stuff, not just from Nintendo but from everything else.
Slow news day 🤪
I'll be interested to see how this comment section turns out. Let's see if it becomes as political as the topic has become on other sites, or maybe people will realize that this simply a matter of business more than any political agenda. Allowing more diverse groups of people to work in the field of game development can only be a good thing for the variety, quality, professional opportunities, and reputation of an industry that has made a name for itself for toxicity and awful working conditions. Good on Nintendo for all they've done in that regard.
@EvilLucario Really cool way of putting it
Best approach to any profession ib my opinion, let trends appear as they may and the distribution will shift to what it will be. My work is female dominated yet the chair of the department is a man because he earned it. The opposite can be said with thenother department that is filled with men yet the chair is a woman.
I am part of the 2 males out of 15 total workers in our department yet we don't see much of a problem with it.
Let the pieces fall to where it may. The only quota that companies should have should be employee slots based on someone's skill and performance prior to employment and not on something that we have no control over.
And.... That's why Girlie / Kawaii games are still important for Nintendo. 😉
@TossedLlama Maybe if trends change and more female developers work on hardware and more male developers work on software, we'll see the release of Father 3 on the Nintendo Game Girl.
Really? You want to get PC? Then how many black people work at Nintendo then?
That doesn’t work though. We have a native community here that have been horribly abused for a long time and there are quotas that workplaces must have to help those people who have been disadvantaged through no fault of there own. You can’t showcase your skills if you can’t even get a foot in the door or the culture of bullying is so bad you have to leave. I could go on, but there’s one example.
@Retupmocnin Are you sure openly dismissing an article talking about females in a Japanese workplace is a hill you want to die on?
I hope this comment section doesn't turn into a mess of political arguments.There's nothing really wrong with what they said anyways...gender shouldn't matter, It should be about there skills and if they're qualified for the job.
@ilikeike @Yoshinator I don't see what political agenda there is to push, really. I suppose it isn't highlighted often, but women have certainly made an impact on the game industry and their competency in the field can't be denied. Just one example is the musical talent of Yoko Shimomura, one of the greatest video game composers ever in my opinion, who has produced some very iconic and deeply moving music. I hope that more females will continue to brave the industry in the future. Coming from someone whose views are sometimes "conservative," I would think it would be common sense to anybody that women are as capable as men and their inclusion in male-dominated professions should be seen as a positive. Maybe I'm just naive and overestimate 21st century minds. Or maybe I'm missing your point entirely and that isn't the social issue in question.
@Not_Soos When I saw a similar topic reported on another website, I saw one comment that went along the lines of "Only the left cares about gender statistics" before ranting about how it's excessive political correctness to try and include more women in business projects, etc.
I tend to see that argument pop up on gaming websites whenever gender is discussed. I'm rather conservative as well, but I simply can't follow that. Talent is talent, regardless of your gender, ethnicity, whatever.
That's it, appoint someone to a position if they're the best suited, not to meet a quota.
"Talent is talent, regardless of your gender, ethnicity, whatever."
My sentiments exactly. I can't say I support the practice of deliberately hiring minorities for the sole purpose of having diversity and therefore better PR if the position isn't deserved, but I don't think that's an issue at all in the article. It's just acknowledging the talented women they have on staff, so hopefully no one would get political over that.
I think a big thing to remember is gaming has been generally more male focused for a long time. I'm not so much talking the games themselves as I am the general perception of who gamers are. Young gamers are more likely to grow up to be game developers than those who weren't gamers when they were kids. With the gaming population from the 80's and 90's leaning more towards the male side it just makes sense that there'd be more guys interested in making games than girls. These days there are all sorts of educational programs aimed at getting girls interested in programing, but those programs aren't going to magically get results over night. Companies need to hire the right people for the job, not the right person to fill a quota. Now that gaming has become a more general thing I'm sure we'll see things naturally balance out, but I feel that trying to force balance is wrong. Ko Shiota's point at the end there sums it up perfectly. There aren't nearly as many women interested in working on hardware as there are in software, but hopefully interest in the hardware side of things will increase with interest in Nintendo's unique technologies. It needs to happen naturally, and it seems like Nintendo understands that.
In an ideal world of course, the issue is we don't live in an ideal world. There are biases, some more blatantly obvious than others. Quotas are an attempt to address these biases. I mean you only need to look at the quality of some of the people in senior positions to know that it's not purely about merit.
Of course there are other factors at play. For example a large part of the reason why there aren't many women in development roles is because of the culture around science and tech in general. I can tell you now when I went through school and UNI the number of girls sitting in my class shrank year by year. In early High School in the top stream Maths & Science classes it was about 50:50. By year 11 & 12 in Calc & Physics it was closer to 30:70. When I was doing Computer Science it was more like 5:95.
And I can tell you now, the people who fell off that track didn't lack merit. There were other factors at play. Namely the general culture around Science and Tech being "for boys". And a LARGE part of that is driven by what kinds of games are being made.
So yeah, in short? Quotas are not anti-merit, it's the culture in general that is anti women which in turn is anti-merit. Change the culture? You'll not turn away the women of merit. And you change the culture by getting women in positions where they start to shape our cultures. How do you do this? .... quotas, probably
Nintendo’s comments make me happy, I’m glad that I company I generally respect is progressive and fair.
The fact that “we treat people equally” is still treated as actual news saddens me. This shouldn’t be a unique stance, this should be the norm and the implication that it isn’t is a damning indictment of modern society as a whole.
However it does seem the only positive way to change societal norms is to challenge and lead by example, so as much as the existence of the article saddens me by implication, it also actively does good by highlighting injustice.
'females' always sounds a little weird. Could be a translation artefact in the article, less so in the comments.
Nintendo saw the crazy feminists coming and shut them up.
Feminists 0 - 1 Nintendo
But really, who cares? Just keep making great games and hire whoever is right for the job, don’t hire women and put them in roles they’re not suited for in the name of political correctness.
Hopefully they employ the best person for the Job and not the best person to fill a quota. Then we need to consider age, let's hope old people are not forgotten, or disabled programmers.
But the best for the job should always win out as I want the best games.
@oatmaster I said "females," should I be offended? I feel like using a generic male/female noun makes perfect sense if you're giving statistics or talking generally, but maybe not so much if you're referring to a specific set of people. "You seem like a fun group of females!" would certainly be a weird thing to say, for example.
Quotas are an attempt to declare that "biases" and "culture" are the reason that men and women enjoy doing different things.
If those are the real reasons, then quotas might be fine. If those aren't the real reasons, then you're basically advocating for introducing discrimation for no good reason at all, which would be an act of evil.
Given that there's mountains of evidence that men and women are psychologically different, it seems like people should be a bit cautious about concluding that differences are caused by bias.
Especially when certain differences are pretty much the same in every free and wealthy country looked at.
And especially when we know these differences occur at a much earlier age than people have encountered bias or toxic culture. My computing class was 90% male at age 14. We didn't know anything about the culture of anywhere. We just liked computing.
@Retupmocnin seeing that Japan is an almost 100% homogenous society and the extreme majority of Nintendo employees are based in Japan, not very many. That said, NoA and Treehouse seem pretty diverse.
On one hand, "best person for the job" is great, but sometimes a "diversity hire" can have value simply based on that fact alone, so situations like this can be avoided: https://youtu.be/8Eo9Xdrvf-E
Cool article. Always hire the best for the job. Problems can crop up, when people are hired for the wrong reasons.
@Not_Soos I can let you off for simply mirroring the language of the article. It's one of those weird quirks, like 'gay people' sounds alright but 'gays' sounds less alright. I can't particularly explain why other than English is weird.
@Dezzy my son and my daughter were being treated differently by the people around them from birth, cultural biases and expectations crop up instantly.
@oatmaster Is it only the feminine form that bothers you? Because "males" was also used in the comments (albeit not by myself) so it's kind of a double standard, I would say. Not really a slur if it goes both ways.
Of course there are biases and differences in treatment.
But the extent to which those determine behaviour is a different question entirely.
You could try and say (and some incredibly radical feminists HAVE said this) that the only reason men are more physically strong and fast than women is because they're encouraged to engage in more physical activity, which they probably are.
But that's obviously not what's accounting for the large difference in physical performance. That's just genetics and its exactly the same in chimpanzees.
@Not_Soos funnily enough, yes. I wouldn't say it's a double standard particularly through as 'males' aren't subject to the same level of discriminatory pressures, if any.
A lot of Women like games. But a lot of them just play on the tablet nowadays my mum is a tablet addict. And back in the day she finished Sonic 1,2 and Aliens 3. But there should also be a lot of Woman who play normal video games now too. And there thoughts are very valid.
@Dezzy the arguments regarding physical potential (I say that rather than strength and speed because I am weaker and slower than a hell of a lot of women) are obviously ludicrous because of the drastically different biochemical environments that men and women live in post-puberty. On balance I think, particularly in young children, environment and social biases affect behaviour far more than biology but that's based more on my own experiences and observations rather than any serious research into the topic.
As a teenage girl who plays games and plans on being a programmer, this is really nice to know. The gaming industry often seems like such an awful place for women to work and I'm glad that it's not a totally universal thing.
@oatmaster I respect your opinion, but I can't say I agree with that. That's like saying we shouldn't use the words "women" or "girls" because they've been oppressed as a class. Wouldn't censoring the word "female" just further restrict their voice, when it could instead be embraced? It just seems a bit trivial to me; I don't see what special (or un-special) connotation "females" has above "women."
So why doesn't the massive difference in brain hormones that men and women have count as different "biochemical environments" as well?
It's weird not to see Charlie in this article of all places.
I just have to say that this is undoubtedly a good thing. This means that Nintendo gamers get different styles of games from what their used to, meaning the creation of great new series that wouldn't have been made if men were in control. Gamers will get a balance between more action-oriented games and slower paced ones
@skywake that's your problem, in our part of the world, it really isn't ours. Things will fall to where they are sooner or later without forcing things or forcing change or lowering standards in training or in careers. The doors are always open for others to enter and try. We have one of the closest gender pay gaps, close to zero, number 1 in Asia and it happened not overnight or under a decade but as a slow trickle for everyone to get used to. In High School, we weren't given a choice in what we had to take as a preparation for college and we had to take all subjects from Science to Art to get a glimpse of a career choice that is for life. We were given a choice, however, in our courses rather than forcing us out of our grades or looking at our advantages. There's a saying here, "If you want it, take it. And do your damnedest in making it because you need to love what you do."
The view of a "boy's world" existed before even in our place. But what that got out of us is merely viewing that stereotype as more of a perception rather than rule of thumb.
To us, hostility is a perception rather than a "structure". Thus it is your "choice" to do or not. To be intimidated means to lack grit and confidence in your abilities. You are who you choose to be.
It's not quotas you need to fill but rather, a presentation to attract or make it appealing to whatever you want to put people in. You are given the opportunity as much as the next person beside you, but the outcome solely rests on your shoulders.
A decade ago, it was rare seeing a male nurse here, but after a while, things started to balance fairly with a huge population of that profession still filled with women. Stereotypes exist, but people are facing the problem wrongly if they think skin color or gender has anything to do with ability or competence. The Marine corps and I think the Scout Rangers training (viewed as one od the most hellish training applications for soldiers in the world) here accepts females but standards are not lowered and everyone is given a fair shot. Nobody here cries sexism over these professions as you are pointed to an objective rather than your peers. Everyone around you isn't out to get you and you are given a clear view, your enemy isn't the people around you, it's yourself and the goal you have to accomplish. If anything, the ones that need to have a changing outlook is not the microcosms of occupational cultures, but people outside of it because they are skewed to view things that they percieve as hostile towards them but actually different once you do get into it.
I will say this, a true conducive and diverse workplace needs only 2 things that will make people stay, conduct of profession and a worthwhile salary.
Your perfect world exists, but perfection is a matter of perspective in this context rather than true norm.
@purplesodium Good for you planning on a career in programming. I wish you well in your future!
@Retupmocnin in Japan? There’s something like 1.05 million people considered not Japanese out of 130 million Japanese people.
@link422007 who told you we lower standards? Now I wonder why you assume that?
@faint merely an assumption, but there are news reports I've been hearing coming out that men have to put on a much more scrutinized filter to become firemen and the physical exam treshold (for lack of a better term) is lowered on a woman. I would argue that such an endeavor is counter-productive but I digress. But on point, what most other countries need is a change in familial structures as it is, foremost, the basic unit of a community and society as a whole.
In fact, the best way to approach it is to be externally patriarchal on familial structures but internally, matriarchal. Meaning, the father manages things outside, but the mother is always the center of the home, she sets the rules inside, but dad sets the rules outside, he manages things when going to vacations or simply going out, sets the rules for curfew, for friends, etc. And the mother manages the budget, she says what goes and what doesn't in the house and expects her children to do the same. The boys protect and keep the place orderly along with the girls. Remind yourself that empowerment always starts at home. Mistakes are hard to be repaired but change is always going to be for the better not sincerely for your own but for your children or those whose going to suceed you.
I think the point raised about mothers working at Nintendo is an important one, because from what I know of Japan, rasing children is mostly left to women. Which has effects on how well you can keep up working hard at a global company.
@dugan Thank you!
Not sure if it's because I just woke up, but I had to do a double take on the title. I thought it read "Proportions of Female Employees". That has a slightly different connotation to it.
I will never understand why people care about something so trivial.
"This is a common issue in Japan that there is not a high percentage of female workers in engineering professions"
...Or any professions, here in the country ranked #114 in the world for gender equality.
 Oh lord... I probably shouldn't have gone back and read the other comments. Now I feel slightly worse for women everywhere.
.... all Nintendo was saying is they foster an environment that men and women want to work. Which sadly in Japan includes not looking down on a mother that works.
Nobody is gonna last in game development if they lack the skill; so everyone in that industry deserves a modicum of respect regardless of thier identity.
^ this. I really don't understand how their statements warrant a political debate, and I REALLY don't understand why Retupmocnin is comparing women having equal rights and opportunities to animals and mythological creatures.
Over half of Nintendo gamers are female, so it only makes sense.
I'm not gonna get into the argument over some comments. I will say its great to see more women and POC getting involved in the behind the scenes of gaming. At the same time, its naive for some to think (as things stand now) its solely based on merits and talent. Its not. If that were the case, this wouldn't be an ongoing issue or discussion. Its ignorant and quite frankly disingenuous to make the argument that other factors of diversity aren't and shouldn't be a part of the discussion when they are in fact part of the discussion
As a software developer myself, this pleases me. The tech industry (and not just gaming) can produce some pretty toxic work environments. I'm glad that some like Nintendo are actively trying to address issues for their employees and make their workplace more comfortable.
One day Nintendo, one day....
@purplesodium: My love of games is what also led me into programming. I initially wanted to do game development (and still might) but learned that I liked working on business apps as well. I currently work on the desktop side of a service management and route tracking program.
Programming can be both fun and frustrating at times, yet that feeling when you figure something out is a good one. From a fellow lady, good luck!
@Blitzenexx Thank you! I'm studying computing science at high school level right now and I really enjoy it. I can't wait to take it further.
@Mayor_Haggar you are right. The answers were good but they didn't really answer the question. What is the proportion in %?
Considering the world pop is above 50% woman have a diversity Gamer scene helps boost sales.
nice to some quota BS on here. our society should be based on merit, if you're the best for the job and it suits the employer financialy as well you'll get the job. you don't hear about quotas on construction sites and coal mines for some reason. furthermore, diversity just mean "not a white male" let's be honest.
@AlternateButtons except those times never existed.
I wish some day we won't even have to discuss matters like this. No one will be counting or comparing because no one will hire or not hire with gender as a factor.
Why is this even a thing? It's obvious there are female employees at Nintendo. Why even ask? Why even make it relevant? People's priorities need to change, seriously...
Edit: Also, who cares what proportion of developers at Nintendo are woman? If they do their job well, then that's all that matters. Nobody should hire people based on gender, and they shouldn't be obligated to have a specific proportion. It's a stupid idea.
@Not_Soos Yeah, there’s nothing political about it, but every time women in tech are mentioned, it attracts the worst kind of attention even when it shouldn’t.
@AlternateButtons Except companies NEVER hired people based on merit until women and minorities started making enough noise about it.
@AlternateButtons Are you seriously trying to claim that there has never been any kind of discrimination based on gender and race in the world?
@AlternateButtons Waiting on an answer, bro. Let me repeat the question: do you assert that discrimination against women and minorities in the workplace has never happened, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary?
@link422007 I genuinely wish I could upvote this 1000x over. Like I get the sentiment of diverse hiring (I'm a black man myself) but even then I tend to default to hiring the people who are best suited to the job and not to hiring simply for fulfilling a quota.
@Mayor_Haggar I know what he was saying. I can quote it if you want. "Remember when companies used to hire based on talent and experience rather than your gender or race? Good times. Gooooood tiiiiiimes."
The explicit (not inferred) statement there is that companies used to hire based on merit ("talent and experience") and not gender or race. In other words, that there was no such thing as systemic sexism or racism. But there was, and we have vast amounts of proof of it. There are entire libraries all over the world documenting systemic discrimination across entire nations for their entire recorded history.
This is a known, undisputable historical fact. Women and minorities could not, and did not, get a fair chance until they started movements that eventually encompassed millions of people fighting for equal rights and opportunities.
If you want to argue about whether or not this struggle still happens, that's a whole different subject which I WILL NOT get into with you guys. But the statement made was, and I'll quote it again to be safe, "companies used to hire based on talent and experience rather than your gender or race." So, exactly when was this magical time?
@SonOfVon "diversity just mean "not a white male" let's be honest."
Someone living in a fantasy world would never know. You might want to go and visit your minority neighbors and walk in their shoe for let's say 100 years and then come back and talk about diversity.
@JasmineDragon Spot on when you wrankle their misogynistic world they get mad and fight back but at the same time fail to see Diversity and Inclusion is what makes level playing field. I've read and seen those stories when woman breaks into a all male field and can work the work the worse comes out of the male gender that is a FACT undisputed.
@Not_Soos I think it's just a weird semantic thing, like 'black people' compared to 'blacks' or 'jewish people' compared to 'jews'. I am tediously politically-correct so I may well be out of step with majority views.
@Dezzy I think that was sort of the point I was making but it doesn't account for the amount of conditioning that happens before the aforementioned diverse biochemical environments emerge.
@JasmineDragon lol, that last paragraph of his post did make me think it was an acutely-observed parody.
... usually when diversity is brought up; it’s less about quotas and more about examining where we get our candidate pool.
We whiteboard everyone anyhow; but what often is found needful are more innocuous things like mostly hiring from your network.
This is at least my experience as a male at three companies in tech.
Diversity doesn’t just mean gender or race; it can be as simple as having a good mix of Sonic and Mario fans.
And it should be a consideration, since we want a decent pool of experiences and outlooks so our culture doesn’t stagnate.
@bloodycelt o/ from Wales, arguably the original home of the bloodycelts
I think there's certainly something to be said for the value of the experience of people from diverse backgrounds. People from many backgrounds will have had more trouble achieving the same level of qualifications and skills as others and that is a consideration. I'd be more inclined to employ an oxbridge graduate from a minority group than the alternatives because their achievements demonstrate a lot more resilience and dedication.
Though the minority argument does somewhat break down when you're talking about women but if you have a man and a woman with identical skills and experience, the woman has worked harder to get there.
I’ve never seen two candidates with similar enough skill. It’s again more often a factor of not even interviewing women and minority’s in the first place.
(Clarification: Not always due to discrimination outright; again, focusing on your networks for example... often will exclude people you otherwise would have wanted to interview)
I think that's why the 'fair and open competition' approach of the welsh government is good - the people doing the pre-interview sift and scoring don't see name, age or any other biographical info. It's not perfect as certain things can still be implied but it's a step in the right direction.
"I think there's certainly something to be said for the value of the experience of people from diverse backgrounds."
Wrong everything is about diverse backgrounds OPENS the closed Mindset
"People from many backgrounds will have had more trouble achieving the same level of qualifications and skills as others and that is a consideration."
This comes from those living privileges would say as a excuse. If you give everyone same Education and opportunities then one can say that but Real-Life experience is anything but that.
"I'd be more inclined to employ an oxbridge graduate from a minority group than the alternatives because their achievements demonstrate a lot more resilience and dedication."
Let's example a Rich India family sends their son to OxBridge their even with their wealth they are still seen as Minority but with privileges their brethren at home doesn't have. So wealth doesn't equate to Diversity. As anything those in Wealth will always look down on their brethren back home-so there is no diversity at work here.
"Though the minority argument does somewhat break down when you're talking about women but if you have a man and a woman with identical skills and experience, the woman has worked harder to get there."
This is the line misogynistic men would use to booster their diversity claims. Woman were forced to worked 2x harder then men to meet the same goals. This was set by MEN not woman. Let's get that FACT straight.
"I think that's why the 'fair and open competition' approach of the welsh government is good - the people doing the pre-interview sift and scoring don't see name, age or any other biographical info. It's not perfect as certain things can still be implied but it's a step in the right direction."
This would be in the right direction but you missed a starting point this was done by majority MEN not woman. This already lack diversity in itself already.
@SwitchForce I'm afraid I don't understand what you're getting at despite the EMPHASIS on certain words.
"Nintendo saw the crazy feminists coming and shut them up.
Feminists 0 - 1 Nintendo"
I think you misunderstand and/or underestimate the people you are calling "crazy feminists."
Just to play devils advocate here, I'm sure there are people out there who would have a problem with the jilted language of this translation, and who would also claim that the company is actively demonstrating their biased beliefs about the roles of men and women in the workplace when they say things like "the fact that our technology is unique makes room for women in the hardware department." So... What, like, there isn't room for women to comfortably contribute to the development of straightforward but powerful hardware? Because an angry feminist will certainly tell you that there is: that women don't need to be more creative or fanciful than men to be successful, and that this statement from Nintendo is founded on the prejudiced expectation that a woman's role in the workplace is to be an abstract creative thinker (designer) rather than an analytical problem solver (engineer).
I'm not taking sides here, all I wanted to do is point out the counterargument. I don't agree or disagree with the "crazy feminist" perspective, nor do I really have much of an opinion on whether this is a "win" for Nintendo. Frankly I think it's all down to interpretation.
But it is worth saying, I think, because whether you agree or disagree with the feminist perspective, feminist discourse and objectives have been sorely misunderstood for years, and especially in gaming.
Hardware is going to become so complex that it's going to be designed by Artificial Intelligence quantum computers.
But people will always want software that contains creative elements made by people. A bit like books aren't made by hand but people still want human authors of books.
@oatmaster typical male response when dealt a losing hand they go into State of Denial. I rather live in Working climate where all are equal and no other gender or minority has to work 2x as hard as the Privileged male(of which most of here knows we speak of). And if you forgot a Woman whom takes over a man in Leadership role - guess what they first ask of her "how do you take care of your kids". But I guess that was too elementary for you.
@oatmaster Even if the man came from Skid Row without a father and the woman's dad was a billionaire? All this sexism doesn't seem to stop women from earning most of the university degrees. It isn't 1910 anymore.
@SwitchForce ok I'll bite. I like how you picked out that last thing I said and ignored the rest. Also, you're a prejudiced bigot because you assumed I'm a "privileged white male". How dare you? Lol. You know nothing about me, where I come from, live and how I grew up. So don't talk privilege to anyone without context.
You're confusing time periods and misrepresenting what people are saying. Obviously there used to be extreme discrimination in most western countries (and there still is in most non-western countries).
But that officially ended decades ago (of course you can still find unofficial examples, but that is a different issue). So by the 2000s, it was fairly reasonable to say that western countries were for the most part meritocracies (obviously you can find exceptions, but we're talking about the average norms, the laws, and the official company policies).
That's what people are referring to when they say "we used to hire based on merit". They're talking about like 1990-2010. They're not talking about 1950, which was obviously heavily discriminatory.
People such as yourself are arguing that current policy should be based on what happened in 1950, which almost no-one alive today actually experienced. Whereas other people are simply saying "No, we've already fixed that problem. You're asking for special treatment rather than equal treatment."
Oh good lord I'm out.
@Dezzy On the contrary, in the past ten years, the US Department of Labor and the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission have both published multiple reports containing facts and figures proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that discriminatory hiring practices and payroll policies, as well as sexual harrassment and other kinds of harrassment and discrimination, were still very much the norm in the American workplace as of the early half of the last decade.
In 2000, the 35th anniversary of the EEOC, they said "The Commission continues to receive charges of discrimination in record numbers. Charges of race discrimination have increased in every single decade since Title VII was passed. Sexual harrassment charges almost tripled in the 1990s compared with the previous decade."(https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/history/35th/2000s/index.html)
In the Fortune 500 for the year 2000, 0.4% of the F500 CEOs were women. In 2017 that percentage was a record-breaking 6.4% (but don't worry, the number dropped back foen to 4.8% in 2018). (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/chart/women-ceos-in-fortune-500-companies-1995-2014/)
According to Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers, as of 2000 women working for hourly wages were twice as likely as men in the same positions to be at or below federal minimum wage. (https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/mobile/ted_20140403.htm)
All of these official reports and public records pretty much confirm it, the bias and discrimination were not only still happening in 2000, but are still happening today - a report from last year suggests that the gender wage gap not only still exists, but is actually worse than most people believed. Not going to link that one since it is still debatable. What's not debatable is that the wage gap does exist.
So tell me again, when did you fix all those problems? Because it definitely wasn't in the 1990s-2000s.
And just so everyone knows, I'm out. Not going to waste an entire weekend on this. There's housework to do and games to play.
The second half of that had nothing to do with discrimination. Number of female CEOs and hourly wages is almost entirely down to women working different jobs and significantly fewer hours than men do. If you look at the labor data on who works 70 hours a week or more, that group is almost entirely male. Those are the people who become CEOs. That's not discrimination. It's a tiny number of men simply working harder than any women are willing to.
The first half is at least relevant. But those cases of discrimination are illegal. Of course you can't stop it happening entirely but the fact is that if it can be proved, those companies can be sued into oblivion.
But you also need to take into account the hundreds of policies that companies and public institutions have that push in the exact opposite way. Affirmative Action on US colleges for example, is a massive amount of discrimination in favor of black people. You need to include that side of the equation or you're just not seeing the whole picture.
@Dezzy You can't argue with those people
For them equality is to be MORE equal than others.
This is the sad truth of todays world. I see it in my company as well. They hire certain people just for the sake of the agenda and it clearly can be seen that they do NOT perform equally or better.
@ReaderRagfihs That's EEO as in Evil Employment Opportunity lol
@JasmineDragon yay housework, haven't seen applause for that in a long time, because that is the devil of feminism 😂. Meh, close that popular gap with overtime and a divorce.
I don't understand why the sexual and ethnic "diversity" of corporations needs to matter. Only two things matter. Are their employees treated fairly? Do they make a good product? I could list plenty of "diverse" companies that don't meet either of those criteria.
I don't care if a Japanese engineering department is comprised entirely of Japanese men.
@MrVariant Yeah, I do most of the housework and childrearing since my wife works an average 15-20 hours a week more than I do. 😎
"We're a great place to work where we have great numbers of diverse employees, as long as they're all ethnically Japanese."
Though at least Japan does tech better than the West, where the day you hit 45, your career is over, like pro sports. There's going to be a LOT of angry unemployable tech workers in the coming decade....
I agree that the proportions of female employees are important (lol)!
Am I one of the few that could care less about the number of females working at a company? What matters more to me, is that they hire the most talented people to work on their games. Gender, Eye/Hair/Skin color or Sexual Preference don't matter when it comes to making great games.
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