Pokémon Sales Slump To All-Time Low In Japan, Despite Strong Worldwide Performance Of Let's Go

Gamefreaks SHOULD learn from Yokai Watch 4.
Yokai Watch 4 has something that looks better than Repetitive Turn Based Pokemon games.
Make it Open World with New Battle system and it will looks Fresh.

I wonder how much of this has to do with this particular entry as opposed to the general appeal of the franchise. It will be interesting to how Pokemon 2019 will perform in Japan.

Perhaps if they made a truly pokatable - handheld version of the Switch then some game would fair better in Japan?

That and it’s not a full fat, mainline stop off. And the Swich is no where close to the 3DS is terms of install base.

Switch doing gray though - lots of faith in it’s its long term potential. Will outsel Wii eventuallly. . !

Defo upset - off to bed!

@personauser0893 I was 6 yrs old when Pokemon Blue/Red came out I feel like I was like a prime target. I would wait til the proper gen 8 it'll be the biggest series shakeup since X and Y. Let's go is fun but very nostalgia fueled so it probably wouldn't be as endearing for you

Did you guys know that Pokemon Go is still very popular in Japan? Why would anyone buy this game when they have free Pokemon game that they enjoyed?

Oh boy, I miss the twists Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and Black/White did to the franchise. Those games took risks and moved forward in several design points. It seems they’ve got way too comfortable with the franchise, too safe. Let’s Go isn’t bad by any means but it fails to be a landmark in industry as previous games used to.

This is purely anecdotal (if anyone has some concrete figures, please share them), but from what I see, the 3DS still has a lot of sway with younger kids in Japan. I still see loads of boys and girls carrying their Ultra Sun/Moon loaded 3DSs around, while the Switch is sort of seen as a bit more of a ‘grown-up’ console.

The paradox of Let’s Go P/E is that it’s a deliberately ‘kid friendly’ (or at least ‘beginner friendly’) game released on the console owned by proportionally fewer kids. Practically every potential Pokemon-prone child in Japan already has a 3DS with the last generation of games, and many are still playing them. While the Let’s Go! games have been great and attracting in the older gamers nostalgic for simpler times, I think to a large extent they haven’t capitalised on the huge child market that exists in Japan.

It’s hard to overstate how big the Pokemon games still are among Japanese kids, but ultimately they’re the age demographic most likely to still be playing their 3DSs, and LGP/E - not being mainline games (and not attracting the resulting marketing push) - haven’t had the power to push the biggest audience (of smallest people) onto the latest hardware.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens when the mainline games come out, especially if there’s a price drop or a cheaper version of the console released.

EDIT: See #22 below, but Let’s Go! actually did better that would have been expected given that only 24% of total Switches globally were sold in Japan to compared to 34% of 3DSes. It naturally follows that the Switch Pokemon games would see a drop on percentage of global sales compared to the 3DS ones, but the drop hasn’t been as severe as the global hardware shares would imply.

@personauser0893 The Pokémon are far more interesting than the people in the series, which is one problem. Another is the lazy (by today's standards) battle system that's highly susceptible to a meta and far too much minmaxing. Then there's the business practices (see: no Pokémon Z because it was so predictable), newer and lacking designs, and the constant gimmicks that don't stick causing fatigue on the franchise's image. But it's a solid core concept.

Maybe the masses are catching on to the lie... you see, you CAN'T catch 'em all, because they continue to multiply. You will never catch. them. all.

@KingBowser86 As long as a system has any sort of challenge, there is always going to be a meta that develops around it. The only way to prevent such a meta, is to create a game that no one likes. Because all a "meta" is, is how players choose to play something.

I wouldn't worry unless we see similar numbers (though those aren't bad by any means) with the Gen 8 games. I still think the Let's Go games were meant to test the waters with the Switch and to rope in the Pokemon Go crowd.

Perhaps we're just sick to death of Kanto being rammed down our throats for the last 20 years. Game Freak didn't even bother to update the region to contemporary/console standards. All they did was produce 3D versions of the maps/layouts from 1996, limitations and all (the stiff grid-based movements during cutscenes were just embarrassing to sit through). The catching mechanics and being able to see and encounter Pokémon via the overworld has made this one of the most fun Pokémon games in years, which, ironically, is the key difference which has divided the audience (though it seems that most people that have actually played the game are in favour of this much-needed change). However, I will say that the game could certainly use more trainer encounters (and particularly those that can be battled repeatedly).

Failing to include baby Pokémon and evolutions of Gen I Pokémon was also a really poor move on their part, and would only serve to confuse newer fans who perhaps fail to disassociate one generation from another.

I have a shiny Zubat, Onix, and Magnemite, but I see no point in training them if I cannot evolve them into Crobat, Steelix, and Magnezone respectively. Sure, Onix could still, theoretically, evolve if transferred to another game in future, but if Golbat and Magneton are trained up to Level 100, then they are stuck that way for good (and there is no item that allows Level 100 Pokémon, who ordinarily evolve via Level Up, to evolve once they reach their maximum level).

@Silly_G The thing is, it’s not a question of why ‘we’ didn't like it. This article isn’t so much about total sales so much as why Japan specifically had a lower share of global sales for this title. Basically, why wasn’t it as popular is Japan (compared to the rest of the world)?

Your points are all valid, but why is it that specifically the Japanese audience that seems to have been affected?

Again, my theory is that most of the previous games’ enormous Japanese sales game from the huge under-15 market in the region, but this demographic is the least likely to have graduated to Switch as the 3DS still has remarkably long legs among Japanese children.

@Regpuppy Granted it's difficult (and unrealistic) to balance 700+ critters. But there are still clear Tiers and team setups and -that- should be avoidable.

For a pair of cash grabs I think it sold incredibly well or at least more than I expected especially when this are the worst Pokémon games ever, good thing this were not the real thing

C'mon guys original Pokemon yellow was available in 3ds just 2 years ago. Buying the second remake of the same game with a spin off casual approach isn't for everyone. And yeah Switch mini will help sales. I really want to see how a real Pokemon game will sell...

I feel like it’s somewhat unfair to compare the lifetime sales of previous games with a game(s) that had been out for less than 2 months when these numbers were recorded. For example X and Y sold over 11 million units in the first (about) 3 months and has sold an additional 5 million units since then.

@Mrtoad yeah I would love to see sale numbers for all those games capped at the first 4 months.

Okay, so I’ve been poking about and one other piece of data stands out which is pretty crucial to understanding the above sales figures; namely the sales figures on the consoles on which they were released.

In short, ~34% of global 3DS sales are Japanese while just ~24% of global Switch sales are.

Just looking at this alone, it should be pretty simple to understand why the 3DS Pokemon games had a higher percentage of global sales than the Switch Pokemon games.

Despite the consoles’ global proportion on the market dropping from 34% to 24% (a scale factor of 0.706), the Pokemon games released on those respective consoles only dropped from 24.2% to 18.5% (a scale factor of 0.764).

You could (and probably should) argue that the Let’s Go games have actually pulled more than their weight in terms of global sales, given the consoles they released on had much wildly different global market shares. Let’s Go! Eevee/Pikachu have actually done considerably better in the region than you might expect given than the previous games were released on dedicated handhelds while the later released on something marketing itself as a “home console”.

So yeah, far from the franchise dying in Japan the latest release actually did better globally than you would expect given of the console it released on.

Maybe “Pokemon Let’s Go! Does Remarkably Well in Japan For a Non-Dediated-Handheld Title” would be a more accurate (if less snappy) title.

Pokémon Let’s Go hasn’t been out that long... However I find it more telling that a general trend down in sales means they should revamp the series.

Time for a change

@KingBowser86 I think you have an unrealistic view of what a game's meta should be. What you're asking for is virtually impossible, given the scale and how the meta evolves depending on what people use game mechanics.

There is always going to be some imbalance in an asymmetric game. Which means tiers, optimal set-ups, and "useless" pieces will exist. The best they can attempt is for their to be as many viable combinations as possible. The only way to have a perfectly balanced game is to give everything the same stats. Which literally kills the whole point of games like this.

Why is nobody mentioning it's probably a lot of the fact it costs about 50% more than the price of the 3DS games.

Add that onto the fact of the smaller install base and it's just a short time period (not even two months). Also just in general the percentage of people who have a Switch in Japan compared to the world is lower than the percentage of people in Japan that had a 3DS compared to worldwide sales.

It's not "lol Japan hated this dumb game"

It's not a mainline game, so this isn't all that surprising. I enjoyed the game enough but I'm more looking forward to the next main game in 2019 like every other Pokemon fan.

Told you all im not alone in this. The new bloods in Gamefreak has that incompetent vibe. I have become wary since Lets Go is released. Pkmn 2019...will it innovate the series or will it be a reskin/ reuse of assets like fallout 76.

@Tharsman
Units sold of the 3DS titles within approx. 2-4 months of release
X and Y: 11.61 million
Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire: 9.35 million
Sun and Moon: 14.69 million
Ultra Sun and Moon: 7.17 million
Average amount of units sold per month (in the first approx. 2-4 months)
X and Y: 3.87 million
Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire: 4.675 million
Sun and Moon: 7.345 million
Ultra Sun and Moon: 3.585 million
Let’s GO: 5 million

Pokemon Gp Away And Never Come Back!

Well they were also not $60.

Agree with @Anti-Matter comment. Look at Yokai Watch 4 - that is how the transition to Switch should look like.

1) Let's Go is the second Kanto remake, not a new game like this year's entry, Sun/Moon, X/Y, Black/White, etc.
2) Gen 1 nostalgia isn't particularly strong in Japan, while it is incredibly strong in the west.
3) Switch isn't nearly as successful as the 3DS in Japan, while it is far more successful than the 3DS in the west. (Japan accounts for 34% of total 3DS sales vs 24% of total Switch sales).
4) The Switch reached ~6 million units sold in Japan by the time Let's Go launched, while the 3DS reached ~13 million units soold in Japan by the time X/Y launched
4) Japan is a portable-oriented price centric market, and Pokemon Let's Go is the first entry in the series that is fully priced and not available on a cheap dedicated portable

All of this contributes to Let's Go's underwhelming Japanese sales figures.

Ultimately, Let's Go is a filler title made to take advantage of Pokemon Go's success and Gen 1 nostalgia in order to sell Switch hardware during the holidays, which it did.

The real test will be this year's Pokemon entry. It will be a new game with better production values (I hope), won't rely solely on Gen 1 nostalgia, will be available on a larger install base, and may be released alongside a cheaper portable-focused Switch revision.

If it sells notably less than Pokemon Sun/Moon, then it's a sign that Pokemon may be in terminal decline in Japan.

@Anti-Matter Just for clarity, Yokai Watch 4 isn't open world. It's just reusing the Ni no Kuni engine.

Does look better though.

@Regpuppy Defend "your toy" all you want, that doesn't change the fact that it's busted when it doesn't have to be. Nerfing the Ubers and creating an Action RPG- or even stamina- (or both?) -based combat system would go a long way to fixing a lot of hang-ups.

The Let’s Go games were enjoyable as a nostalgia trip and the presentation was excellent, but the stripped down battle mechanics and horrifically dull Go-based catching and lack of wild battles made the game an overall snore. I beat the elite four and have zero desire to ever revisit it. By contrast, I happily put more than 900 hours into both Y and Moon on 3DS.

While I know people were moaning about the catching mechanic, I think gamers were also aware this is really just to tie us over till Gen 8. Not to mention the Switch userbase probably not being as big.

Another issue is probably making these games too "annual"-y. I think a series like this needs a year gap more often or you bore gamers with the same-y experience. I know I felt super burnt out on Gen 7 with USUM and now just wanna get on with Gen 8. Let's Go was a little more laid back though which was nice at least.

I just hope Gen 8 is the evolution the series is needing. It really needs an "outside the box" approach like BOTW Vs other 3D Zeldas otherwise I think these game sales are just going to stay low...

@Mrtoad so, if I read that right; per month is actually performing better than most other than sun and moon, and didn’t that one release at the peak hype point of Pokémon Go?

It all went downhill with Sun and Moon Imo. When I saw it was doing so well I was very dissapoined. To me it was a huge step down from OR/AS, X/Y. It was like it didnt belong to the series. Everything dumbed down, and easy. They removed so mamy mechanics and nobody seemed to mind. I hope they take a different direction with the next one..

we need a new core game already. but try not to F it up like sun and moon. x and y were mediocre too, but MAN sun and moon were stinkers! i miss the way pokemon felt on gameboy...

We bought it and it is gentle entertainment. A relaxing diversion, bereft of challenges. Even my eight year old son commented on how easy it is. It was like they were afraid of asking any sort of effort from the player

@Tharsman 4 months after the peak hype point (according to Google Trends), but Pokémon Go seems to have had a huge effect on sales of the Pokémon series in general during 2016:
X and Y sales from Jan. 1st to Dec. 31st 2015: .76 million

X and Y sales from Jan. 1st to Dec. 31st 2016: 1.36 million

@Anti-Matter
Turn based is the whole point.
What you’re suggesting is a spin off. 😉

As far as 'core' games goes it was cute but lacking real meat to it. I'm sure the generation 8 games will do much better and no the don't need to become open world games.

There hasn't been a real game since Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. Let's Go was just a spin off. I am not concerned.

If Gen 8 fails, then people can actually criticize.

@KingBowser86 I'm not even sure what your point is anymore. You went from talking about balance, to talking about making it entirely different genres. Which is what we just call a spin-off.

All I said was that regardless of how hard they try, people are going to create their own tiers and team set-ups. Because the meta of a game is purely based on how players use game mechanics. Could the series use some changes or balance adjustments? Sure, but show me a competitive game that never needs this.

Even games as simple as Pokemon Go have metas, with tiers and optimal teams. It's just a natural side-effect of having competitive games with overlapping mechanics in play. The only way to get around it is to create a game with no choices.

Nice, I hope they now quit to dumb down Pokemon games so much. Since gen 5 it really got worse with every entry.

@BezBot
People will gladly pay more for a game if it's an actual improvement, not a lazy remake. Japan isn't exactly Zelda country but look at how that game performs. But I doubt Gamefreak has any idea how to improve Pokemon at this point.

Keep in mind those 10m are most likely shipped units and not sold. Last i checked sales were at 7-8m globally. This game was a little trip down nostalgia lane but nothing more. Oversimplified for no real reason, garbage capture mechanics and nonexistent postgame. Moved on right after the elite 4, after about 30 hours and there's no reason to return. Least played pokemon game by a large margin for me and i have played almost every pokemon version and remake.

It’s a spinoff.... and it sold in less than 2 months what I thought will be it’s life time sales
It isn’t bad at all

LG is enjoyable, but a bit lazy. Here's hoping gen 8 will truly innovate the series. The last games I've played (Black&White, X&Y), felt extremely dull, at least to me. The formula has gotten a bit stale. LG shaked it up somehow, but not enough.

I wouldn't say it's panic button time yet as their not "proper" Pokemon games. Should gen 8's sales be as low? Then you've got a problem

Despite not being "bad" per se, the promotion LGPE got was disastrous enough for these games to be the first time I have skipped buying a Pokémon game since Red and Blue (I wasn't even 10 back then, and I had to overcome a Game Boy stigma back in the day; Pokémon Gold was my first handheld game as a result), which - despite me not worshipping the franchise as I used to do anymore - is kind of telling: I've done a basic playthrough in every region and most of the sidequests in the games that reall, er, caught me. (Sorry.)

I have the game, though. That saint of a friend I have felt like making LGPE my Christmas present, both for me and for my girlfriend. So I have it, and can make an objective statement about it. The verdict is... that it's cute. Which is as basic as praise about a Pokémon can get: cute, just not charming enough for it to become what feels lke an actual Pokémon game.

However, I took for granted that Japan - what with it being home to wait, maybe not "home to" as much as merely a strong example of, what I call the "gachapon mentality" ("Oh, look, I lost a life on this hard Mario Maker level. Let's laugh it off. Oh, look, that shiny legendary I fought a hard raid for just escaped. Whatever, better luck next time!") - still loved the game out of the worship the franchise demands from its fanbase. I was wrong. If even Japan isn't buying LGPE anymore, it's quite the wake-up call. One that the Pokémon Company as a whole needed. Whatever Gen 8 is, it has a lot to prove. It needs to be a compelling heavy hitter, especially now that Kingdom Hearts III is already looking like a contender for the Game Awards in the RPG category, if not straight for the GOTY award itself.

I wasn't going to get Let's Go, and only did because I wanted a Switch and thought I might as well. The game is pretty much exactly what I expected it to be, which is fine but definitly not a must buy.

Speaking to others, it definitely seems like I'm not the only one. Kanto is great and all, but Kanto fatigue is real.

There's a disingenuous narrative being brought here. You're comparing Let's Go to the starts of generations which always perform much stronger than remakes and much stronger than enhanced versions.

This is a remake of an enhanced version

Not to mention the fact it's comparing 1 and a half months of sales of Let's Go with over 2 years of sales for SM, 5 for XY, 8 for Black & White and 12 for Diamond & Pearl.
And it's ignoring the fact that the Japanese dedicated gaming market has heavily contracted in the last 8 years and Pokémon has weathered that relatively unscathed.

I really wouldn't worry. Once the mainline series hits switch the numbers will be off the charts

Let’s Go is a spin-off and shouldn’t be compared to mainline games, either critically or commercially.

@Peach64 Let's Go is not a spin-off. It is officially listed as a main series game and the developers say it is not a spin-off

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyQ7K4oWoAAvMqL.jpg

Good, but that's still too much.

Many people I know will not buy it because of the catch em controls. And the lack of pro controller support.

Pokemon Lets Go is the first time I have ever played or even considered playing a Pokemon game. I'm still not far into it but it seems like simple fun so far.

Has Nintendo created this game mainly to bring new people and adults like me into the franchise in preparation for the main game that will release later this year which will appeal to everyone?

@steve_1978 That's pretty much the entire goal of Let's Go, yeah haha

Welcome!

I think that they didn't sell as much as mainline pokemon games because they are not mainline pokemon games. They are just spinoffs from game freak. Don't get me wrong, they are fun and all but they are not mainline and the fact that the competitive scene is still officially focused on usum proves it.

I think there will be the perfect storm next year. I mean, Switch user base will have expanded another 10(ish) million going into the holiday season. Together with a Switch mini, limited edition Pokémon console and Gen 8, I think the Pokémon company will have enough reach to appeal to the more handheld traditional player and the growing Switch userbase to look at chasing the extra 4 million or so sales it's lagging behind.
Of course, the quality of the game matters. Switch was probably a kink in their road map, but after Let's Go, I'm confident they will produce something just as lovely, if not more so.

Let's remember that Pokémon GO is a summer sensation for younger players, and that the whole existence of these GenOne reimaginings tie in directly with the popularity of that game. Let's Go are likely to continue selling over the spring, and even increase in sales for the summer.

However, not many expected the Pokémon old-timers to bite this hook. They won't be back until the next proper generation, and Nintendo knows this. For those fearing all future Pokémon games will be similar to Let's Go, these numbers should serve to reassure them that Nintendo are very aware they can't do that.

@Serebii
Joe, I'm a Pokémon fan too, but even taking Game Freak's tendency to use their first Pokémon game on new hardware just to test it into account, there's no denying that LGPE could have been, and done, a lot more.

Given how legendaries and Snorlax have perfectly functional wild encounters, there's no way a toggle between "classic" and "let's go-only" modes at the start of a save file was that hard to implement.

@AlexSora89
You're talking about the company that used Challenge mode once (even unlocking it was a pain) and never again. Masuda doesn't care about you veteran players.

Well for a game that is quite a backwards step for the series in many ways I'd say it has fared pretty well. Lets be honest this was catered more for mobile gamers than fans of the core series and I'd expect that new game to perform even better.

Overall nearly 1 in 3 adoption rate is pretty fantastic

Called saturation.

@Sandro89
I don't demand challenge in the single-player portion of a Pokémon game. I just want the Pokémon game to feel like one.

I mean it's a reimagining if yellow with a spin-off format for battles. I would think they should have tempered they're expectations. I'm glad it's hot even 10 million+ copies sold.

Purely speculation, but it might also have something to do with the cost and having multiple save files.

Imagine "Breath of The 'Mon"........

A dream come true.

I am still playing Ultra Sun hour per day. I love it.

They way I see it is Lets GO is bait for a certain kind of fish.

LG is meant to convert GO players (the ones who have either never played or haven't played an 'proper' mon for a long time) into Core players

seeing as Japan is the literal home of the core series players It's "bait" for a rather uncommon fish. Whereas in the west there plenty of that kinda of fish.

Also, I do not like the changes made Let's Go. I don't really like the look and I do not like the wild characters showing and it was way too watered down in the new presentation. Among other things, overall it did not feel the same and became annoying to look at and especially listen to.

@Anti-Matter i fully i agree.

And the competitive players can stay with the older games otherwise except the change. Turn based should be ditched

@Regpuppy So you can't connect the dots between a different combat system that intuitively matches the franchise's mantras and somehow that's my failure?
Pokémon, in general, has gotten too far off-kilter. The only reason most people think of it fondly is because of the simple and fantastic creature designs in the first few generations (because believe me it wasn't the compelling stories or worthwhile music).
And just because the combat changes some doesn't mean that the core moves and everything can't stay. It's not a "whole different" thing just because combat changes from turn-based (see: "your toy"). With a system that takes live 3D movement into consideration, small and swift Pokémon have a better chance of being useful while the Ubers (usually very large) are still frightfully strong but have some limitations. Yes, it would still be susceptible to Tiers (see: Smash), but that can be playtested down to something fairly even across the board (see: Smash Ultimate). Stamina attached to moves would end spamming and setup-metagamimg.
"But you're not giving them options!"
No, they're getting -far more- options because their favorites are now viable instead of YOU MUST USE FLYING LANDORUS / MEGA RAYQUAZA / MERCHANDISE MONSTER OR YOU WILL NEVER WIN A SINGLE BATTLE like Pokémon has been doing.

It's probably just this particular entry. I've bought every new gen and remake upon release, however I wasn't feeling this one at all.

@Serebii And it’s the only game on that list not released in a dedicated handheld, in the land where the handheld is truly king. It’d be a bit iffy to say you’re comparing handheld sales vs. home console sales, because even if Nintendo insists the Switch is the latter it’s clearly a bit of a grey area.

But clearly being the first non-dedicated-handheld main series game was going to have some effect in the region. Also, even if it’s a ‘main’ series title, it’s still not a ‘core’ series title. ...Okay, I’m facetiously making up terms now, but it’s clearly and deliberately not like supposed to be like the other games in the series, and the yet games like that will continue to be made in parallel, so I feel some sort of distinction is worth making even if Nintendo lumps the whole set together as ‘main series’.

Shouldn't this be compared to other remakes instead of new entries?

It's pretty much on par with those.

@Silly_G Option are good. Keep the motion control capture mechanic for those who want it, but an option to turn off motion controls and catch them the old way would be appreciated. Of course, the option to fight them is always appreciated as well (just like it always was).

I'd even take it one step further. Make it so throwing Poke Balls on the overworld is possible in that case. Something like this: https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda14/Walkthrough/04/0410.jpg However, walking into a Pokemon triggers a regular battle (with the option to catch him as well).

If they keep the Pokemon roaming around on the overworld, I do like to see differences in behaviour. In LGPE they look the same static models roaming around by Brownian motion. Sun and Moon had a few overworld encounters, and some like Wimpod actually displayed a sort of behaviour. Some Pokemon will flee as you approach them. Something angry like Tauros will probably charge you head-on, etc.

I'd also like to see the return of function grass. ORAS had a great feature where the tail of some Pokemon stuck out of the grass: http://i.imgur.com/qxVk6TP.png Little things like this can keep the surprise element, whilst avoiding ''true'' random encounters. Something like Oddish would be virtually hidden in tall grass for example. Fishing and surfing would be similar to Animal Crossing, with Pokemon swimming underwater, but with their silhouette visible, etc.

@Maxz I agree, this is just shoddy incendiary journalism. Contradicts itself as well on numerous occasions. Pointless.

@Sanangelo89 Turn-based is the reason why there's such a huge competitive scene. Saying Pokemon should ditch turn-based battles in favour of real time is like saying Smash should be 3D instead of 2D, because 2D is old-fashioned and somehow worse. Variety is good, and we're certainly not in dire need of real time action RPGs at the moment. So I don't see the harm.

Well, it's certainly nice to see one way in which it wasn't as successful. Also this is Japan, so they might have to take a look a this. Hopefully.

Good, serves them right. Maybe now they'll start putting some actual care and quality into their games. You know, like nearly every other developer on the Switch is doing.

@Bolt_Strike The issue is that this isn't even bad for Switch Standards and by now the games have probably broke 2m (since this was based on December reports).
Which is up there with other games like Smash and the like

I think this is a little iffy since it's comparing titles that were on decade old handhelds opposed to the Switch and a rather new title.
Remakes never make as much bank as a new gen too .
I think all those really means is that those rumors about a cheaper Switch variant are likely to be true to make it easier for parents to buy the console for their children.

Good. The Let's Go games are incredibly lazy, and deserve to sell poorly. Hopefully Game Freak will put some effort into the next ones.

Sorry for the "hardcore" fans, but the battle system need to change. Right now is garbage, the competitive scenario is boring, repetitive and sad. Total revamp right now!

I’m playing Pokemon pikachu now and enjoying the fresh approach my only gripe was no pro controller support but now I’ve spent a fair amount of time with it I feel like it’s a non issue

While well polished, Let’s Go felt like the laziest titles in the series yet. I really hope the new generation does something because Pokémon has been on a downward trend quality wise.

I dunno, perhaps they need to learn they need to put in some effort into making these games every now and then.

@Frank90 I need to agree. Not having held items and abilities make the LG battles look rubbish.

@Timppis LG feels like a different kind of game IMO. Remakes usually brought in everything new that was introduced since they were released (FRLG brought in everything up to gen 3, HGSS with Gen 4 and ORAS with Gen 6). LG seems more like a regression to even be compared to previous remakes.

@Serebii Nintendo also said that MP4 development was going great before announcing they were scrapping it, but hey, you can keep on bitting the hook with their PR talk.

@KingBowser86 Again, when you talk about changing the combat that much. You're talking about making a fundamentally different game. To the point where it's just a different genre. Which, honestly, is fine. But doing so, without continuing a series with traditional mechanics, is just asking for a lot of their core fans to give up on the series. This makes sense for a series that's flat out dead, but that's not the case with Pokemon, which still pulls in millions in sales. Despite releasing so often, that it's honestly giving the fanbase game fatigue.

As for balance, you still don't seem to get it. I'm not against them trying to make as many viable pokemon and team set-ups as possible. But, as I keep saying, it's impossible to have a perfectly balanced game across the board. With 800 Pokemon, of various types and gimmicks, some are just going to be weaker. There is no reasonable amount of testing that can playtest that perfectly. Especially since it's almost impossible to predict how the player meta will shift. This won't change with a 3D combat. In fact, it will make it even harder and more expensive to balance things out.

You bring up Smash, and how it's balanced. Give it a month, and despite their balance patches you're going to see obvious trends as the player meta adapts. Some characters are still going to be seen as broken, or OP, and some will be considered useless. Throw some more balance patches in, and the process is repeated. Tiers will keep developing, and some characters will go on being underused.

I think the problem isn't with pokemon itself and more of the fanbase. A lot of people(not all of them, let me make that very clear) think they know what's best for pokemon and expect game freak to do what they think is best, and when game freak doesnt, people get angry. Also i think lgpe was doomed to fail because it was gen 1, and when gen 1 is even refrenced in a game its labelled as nostalgia pandering and is shat upon(let me make this clear, im only refrencing a PORTION of the community). I also think its unfair to claim that game freak put no effort into making lgpe since it was most likely a very trying process since game freak has never used the switch technology before and they've been using the same tech since 2013. If you think about it, lgpe was a safe option for game freak instead of just jumping head first into gen 8 or the sinnoh remakes.

Why is the comparison with new generation games? Surely as Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee are Yellow remakes, the comparison should be with FRLG, HGSS and ORAS instead.

Something worth mention is a lot of people bought multiple copies of the other handheld games too.

With let's go, there's hardly any reason at all to have more then one as there's little to actually do other then the solo experience, and the version exclusives iirc just boil down to the starters and a few pokemon rather then story elements (don't quote me on that, never was interested to actually play and find out myself).

With the handhelds, a lot of people would buy another cartridge or two due to;

Modding, trading with yourself, Storage, Nuzlocke without ruining the old save file, corrupted data, and losing them (lets face it, this was a time when cartridges tended to be ruined or lost somehow due to mishandling experience but nowadays we're more used to it, and there's less problems with modding and data corrupting compared to using random action replay codes that could be anything.), and competitive reasons (It was more of a big deal for games like ORAS because competitive players had to grind for the inaccessible pokemon, but with lets go there's no incentive to due to lack of proper online or competitive experience.)

Pokémon Let's Go got a stronger global debut than Pokémon ORAS on 3DS despite a lower Switch install base, and the game was on average 50% more expensive, it means it's the most profitable Pokémon game since Red/Blue.

Nintendo and TPC are very happy with that performance, that's the strongest attach rate since the GBC days.

Pokedoomed! in Japan lol (kidding if you are wondering)

@Regpuppy The franchise could have tuckered out at Gen 4. It only stuck because of how gigantic Gen 1 and 2 were. At some point, it's going to have to evolve. That's not "fundamentally different," it's still Pokémon. Except now you get to do clever things instead of just fuming about not being able to do so (regardless of whether you saw it in the anime).
I already said that balancing all 800 was unfeasable and unrealistic. Of course an Arceus can stomp a Caterpie. We'd be concerned if that wasn't the case.
I'm not wasting any more time typing this out.

Shrugs. Pokemon games are evergreens. The game will sell so long as Switch is sold. The numbers will climb.

@KingBowser86 How is changing the combat from one type, to an entirely different type, not a fundamental shift? It's a core part of the main games, and changing it to action/3D combat is enough to shift it into another genre.

Sure, it would still be Pokemon, in the same way that Super Mario Odyssey and New Super Mario Bros are both still Mario games. But even Mario still releases games with the classic formula, for those that still like 2D sidescrollers, and they keep a clear separation between them.

I mean, if you're asking for a spin-off with new mechanics, I am not against this. I'd likely play a 3D action Pokemon game. But that doesn't mean they should ditch the core series entirely. That would be silly, because there are still people who consistently buy and play those games.

"The fact these newest releases are not being classed as the next mainline entries in the series - even though The Pokémon Company says otherwise"

Then it's a mainline game. Why the denial, Liam?

@Silly_G "Perhaps we're just sick to death of Kanto being rammed down our throats for the last 20 years."

It's been nearly 15 years since the last Gen 1 remake and 9 years since the last game with Kanto. Where is the "ramm[ing] down our throats" in that?

@AndreaF96 Since when was the competitive scene more of an authority than Game Freak on determining what is a main Pokémon game and what is a spinoff?

You best stop lying to yourself about this.

@rushiosan You don't think removing random battles and changing the catching mechanics are risky? If anything, Gen 4 and 5 were among the safest generations.

@Majora101 Why change when the game just sold 10 million?

@Heavyarms55 Lying to yourself doesn't change the facts.

@Lord And plenty more bought it, ensuring that you guys are but a minority.

@GKO900 Seems like you're in self-deception there. It isn't good to lie.

@BenAV Weeb

@Anti-Matter You're headed for disappointment.

@Dog Do explain how I am lying to myself.

@Dog
Disappoinment what ?
Pokemon mainline games should be at least like Yokai Watch 4 did.

@Dog since it's been decided by the pokemon company which games are used for the competitive world tournament. I did like lgpe even though they are not as good as usum(the very best pokemon games so far), still they are not mainline. The fact that game freak mentioned keeping the letsgo series in parallel to the core series is another proof.

@Dog That’s not being risky, that’s removing a feature from the game to benefit casual playstyle and match Go’s catch mechanic. It’s actually the opposite of moving forward. Rotation battles were risky. Horde battles were risky. This one is just for making the game more accessible for kids who don’t want to learn a deeper system.

@Dog Why change the award-winning Zelda formula? Why earn $10 million when you can earn $20 million? Why deliver unlikely long-time fan favorite characters into Smash Bros. Ultimate? Why innovate?

There is hunger in Nintendo product owners for a dynamic, adaptable Nintendo, and every time they deliver something new rather than rehash the same old, they break barriers and reach levels of financial and critical success they never could have enjoyed had they stuck to producing more of the same. It is clear that the grid-based 2.5D RPG gameplay formula with ~100 new creatures and an accessory toy peripheral cannot push the series forward any further.

The mainline Pokemon RPG series as an example of revenue has encountered steady year-over-year stagnation in sales despite saturated public exposure and high engagement, and this is not due to any hardware issue or release timeline, as the Nintendo 3DS, the home of the series for the better part of a decade, has enjoyed a sizeable install base for many years — sales of main Pokemon RPGs should be increasing YOY as the user base grows, not shrinking. This stagnation is due to saturation and recycled content. Players who purchased X and Y do not feel there is enough of a new experience in newer titles to warrant new purchases.

Arguably, the most exciting and promising success the Pokemon series has enjoyed since Pokemon X/Y, (which itself was a major change from past entries and benefitted majorly from it) is Pokemon GO, a complete deviation in both gameplay and reception from the norm for this maturing IP, being a mobile title that has become a mainstream social phenomenon while titles like Pokemon Omega Ruby and Ultra Moon stagnate by these same measures. People who hadn't played a Pokemon title since Red and Blue were making Pokemon a part of their lives again twenty years later, and this is not because GO's gameplay is casual, but because it is different and new and provided players with an experience they had wanted since they first picked up a Game Boy: the experience of catching Pokemon in the real world.

As there was when Pokemon GO was released, there is demand today for a less restricted, free-form style Pokemon game, just as there was for the Zelda and Mario series before they too delivered a different experience from their past games. These evergreen titles now account for huge margins of total software sales on the Nintendo Switch. Simply put, it would be a wasted opportunity to fail to capitalize and not make the product people want to play.

Becsuse people know Let's Go is just another cash grab of the original with low production values.

@Spudtendo I like your avatar pic!

While the Pokemons evolve, the characters never seem to evolve more then a few years. They stay kids forever. Ash should have a fist-of-the-north-star muscled body by now and throw the pokeballs at Mach 5 speed crushing pokemons without even taking them out.
Foeksia should have a Boa Hancock body by now...do I need to say more...
With these tiny little changes the series will have the attention it deserves.

I thought this wasn't a mainline pokemon game? The people that disliked the GO! part of it simply didn't buy it. Sadly there was quite a few of those I think

Despite the low Japanese sales, Let's Go is the fastest-selling Pokemon remake, exceeding the launch sales of FR/LG, HG/SS, and OR/AS.

In fact, if you ignore Japan and focus on other markets, Let's Go is the 2nd fastest-selling game in the series, behind Sun/Moon.

Gamefreak needs to figure out how to make the franchise grow again with Japanese players.

I'd be okay with Pokemon taking a year or two off if they came back with a stronger pair of games.

@Maxz And thus why the cut down handheld only Switch Mini/Lite has been inevitable from the moment TPC announced Pokemon will be on Switch, and why it's crazy that not everybody here actually believed that.

I loved these games. Made it so much easier to find shiny versions of Pokemon I wanted. But not too easy, still provides a great challenge and of course the post-game content is very challenging. I loved the new art style, this is basically Kanto how my imagination saw it way back in the 90s playing Pokemon Red and Yellow versions on my Game Boy Color. People who are complaining that it's not a mainline Pokemon game....well, stop living under a rock because The Pokemon Company have said time and time again that yeah, it's not a new generation of Pokemon game. It's a re-imagining of Pokemon Yellow. So calm your bits, your next-gen Pokemon game is coming this year & it'll likely have some kind of debut at E3 or equivalent gaming event/Nintendo Direct soon!

@Bolt_Strike Dude, that isn't so bad. And Let's Go did pretty well.

@SCAssassin Ni No Kuni had a huge open world tho and even if it's reusing the 3DS YKW maps, those maps are still very big, very open and free to let the players explore. Pokemon has always been known for being a pretty linear experience but you really can't say that at all about YKW or NNK.

@Heavyarms55 Calling Let's Go a spin-off when it actually isn't. Nintendo and Game Freak have proven otherwise; so those who still insist that Let's Go is a spin-off is lying to himself at this point.

@Dog I am well aware of their official stance. But I can also read between the lines. They know that if they said otherwise, it would hurt sales. Fact is they went out of their way to confirm a true main line entry was in the works after Let's Go was announced to quite a lot of backlash, and Sword and Shield look to be that entry and will be returning the series back to its proper form.

But Let's Go ties to the 1 billion Pokemon Go downloads, so it's supposed to sell like 100 million copies. Hmmm...