
Nintendo has reportedly filed a lawsuit at the federal court in the US state of Arizona earlier this week, with the publisher calling out two ROM and emulator websites - allegedly owned by the same Arizona-based company - for unfair competition as well as copyright and trademark infringement. Nintendo is requesting statutory damages of $150,000 per infringement, and up to $2,000,000 for each trademark infringement. According to the source, this could theoretically equate to $100 million in damages.
Both websites are believed to offer readily available ROMS and emulators to the general public. Nintendo went on record saying these specific sites were the most notorious online hubs for pirated video games and said the sites were known for distributing and displaying a large volume of the publisher's works without its permission. The websites are known for distributing proprietary BIOS software and using trademarked logos and characters as well. Nintendo believes both sites are professional operations turning a profit.
In addition to compensation for damages, Nintendo wants the company to shutdown both sites, hand over the domain names and reveal the sources of the ROMS.
[source torrentfreak.com]
Comments 200
Nintendo's gonna win!! They're rough enough for that.
Piracy of retro games is piracy all the same. I can understand it if the original cart is prohibitively expensive and the game isn’t available on a modern download service. But aside from that, shut it down.
If they pulled a SEGA Forever move and started publishing NES games on mobile for free, this wouldn't be an issue. But that'll never happen
I hope that, if true, Nintendo wins big time. I can't believe anybody would be stupid enough to base themselves in the US and pirate ROMS. Funny how they are based in Arizona...
Wait so, all these years that emulators and ROMs have existed, and they decide to take legal action now?
I'm curious what websites they are
That's why you need to make sure that they can't trace these websites back to you. They got caught because they were stupid.
@NGamerCole
Check the source. Honestly, I've never heard of them.
@ASHINJU yeah exactly. So many morale Marthas in here.
They’ll close these two and 10,000 others exist.
They left a folder in the nes mini for “roms” and a little note - knowing people would add roms.
People will still find the roms if they want.
@Medic_alert @Banjos_Backpack Ah yes, the "If you let us buy it we'd pay for it"
Forgetting the past 6 years have been people complaining about having to do that very thing on 3DS and Wii U.
Plus, the comments on that site are absolute comedy gold.
Eh, I've got them all on my PC anyway, and a billion other sites offer plenty of ROMs.
Nintendo being naive enough to think this will stop emulation of their old games.
Those two websites are done? Ok well there is still 100 more. There is a reason why other companies rarely bother.
@Spectra People will just pirate anyway. That's the ultimate problem. Sure, I COULD go buy a game, but if its free...Same with any technology. I could but if there is the same for cheaper, why wouldn't I?
@Medic_alert Then look at that statement. Yes, the Arcade Releases sell extremely well. But thats a spot on a chart thats not given to a third party release. Add in Mario World, ALTTP, and you have the same problem the 3DS had. The eShop becomes "LOOK HOW WELL THIS OLD GAME IS SELLING" and publishers walk away.
Never heard of those sites, to be honest. And I've grabbed my fair share of ROMs.
This is ridiculous.
Nintendo could literally give the right to play those 30 years old games for free on their own systems. They made so much money on them since the original release to the last NES mini console.
I also have to say I like the mentally of "Let people do what they want" in the comments.
But that doesn't include allowing Nintendo to do what they want?
So even moderators are now condoning the downloading of ROMs from these kinds of site on here?
Wow.
@EightBitMan If a game, an individual title, would become public domain, but the IP was still in use, would that allow people to share the game, and only that specific piece of software and included assets, or the IP as a whole?
Because if Super Mario Bros. becomes public domain, wouldn't that then mean anyone can do what they want with that game, including make more of them?
Also, I hope you realise the "dont care about carefully preserving their own damn builds" was common company policy for a lot of business a long time ago. It's why early Doctor Who is so rare and some stories are incomplete - they never kept the tapes.
You only have so much storage space after all and its not like in the 80s you could dump it all on a hard drive.
Don't worry - 70 years after Shigeru Miyamoto dies, all his games will enter the public domain, right? Just hold on, players, just hold on.
Although I don't know what sites they are, I am pleased to see these actions happening.
Wait, did i miss something ?
There you go.
(Continue watching debates here)
Oh, it still fresh from oven.
The irony is that piracy helps more than damages, the software preservation is possible and accessible because people dump their cartridges into ROM form and make them public. If weren’t for that, we certainly wouldn’t be able to play most of the Famicom Disk System catalog since a lot of older floppy disks are forever gone. The same can be said about disc media and cartridges, they won’t last forever, neither the devices that are able to read them.
Good. Maybe they would have continued the virtual console or made it better if they didn’t have to compete with piracy sites or waste money on security features.
I don't think there are ways of ending this kind of practice but sure there are ways of reducing it considerably. Nintendo could offer just one service out of a dozen feasible options and people would subscribe to it, or even buy more classic games if 1) they were available or 2) Nintendo charged a nice price for 30 years old games. But they just don't.
For example, I got so happy when they announced Donkey Kong Country and Super Metroid for the 3DS virtual console, but they said: "no, no you idiot. You have a 3DS, an "old" system. If you wanna play the 20 year old games we're selling for 8 dollars each, buy a new system, the New 3DS. It will run THE SAME new games you buy for your 3DS and also the 20 year old games you want to play!" To me this was ridiculous!!! And the point is that I have the Donkey Kong trilogy and Super Metroid in official cartridges for the SNES, but I'd like to play them handheld and not have to rely on a TV anymore.
So, this is the kind of thing that Nintendo doesn't care about. They could help solve part of the problem but they don't want to.
As for the lawsuit, they're right. They have to defend what's theirs.
As for gamers who want to play retro games, Nintendo doesn't really care.
Nintendo isn't making any money off of the resale of physical cartridges or the resale of old consoles. They also aren't offering most of these ROMS on the VC or the Mini consoles.
The switch is one of my favourite consoles ever Nintendo need to make their back catalogue available to everyone instead of a planned drip feed they mentioned with the online service just make them a decent price and I’m guessing most people would love to buy them they are sitting on a gold mine and people still wanna play these games especially on a lovely system like the switch hamster must have made a fortune off the Neo Geo games on the eshop sort it out Nintendo there is a massive market for this and it would go some way to stopping this kind of practice
@Euler Is it still good if they don't bring the VC back?
Meanwhile emuparadise.com has put all the Nintendo games back up.
Well we all knew it was gonna happen one day. The fact that it's happening right now specifically though can't be a coincidence, there's gotta be a reason. Perhaps Nintendo is planning something big with their retro games?
I don't like it when you have to click on the source link in an NL article to read the full story, the article could have said what the names of the websites were.
There’s always the deep web
@Knuckles-Fajita Forgetting the past 6 years have been people complaining about having to do that very thing on 3DS and Wii U.
People are not complaining about not getting the ROMS free from Nintendo, they are complaining about the price and Nintendo double dipping on the same ROMS for different systems. Sony doesn't do that with their PS1 Classics.
I can name alot of room sites not just with Nintendo games and I'm 50/50 on the issue myself as if they were to release a VC with cross buy for Nintendo consoles like Sony did on some games they would be making a killing
@IkeBoi Perhaps Nintendo is planning something big with their retro games?
No, they are planning another drip feed with their online service.
I got some good atari roms from loveroms
@GammaPhonic Just looking at the front page of that site I see Pokemon games that are not sold by Nintendo any longer, either as a ROM or as a physical copy.
Hypocrisy at its finest, I like how people forgot that when the wii shop launched nintendo was found to have been SELLING a pirated rom for super mario bros and was forces to then give that away for free. If the site has new games that are still being sold fine but if its for old unavailable software let them be.
@G-Boy It was for your own good that you check out the site for yourself. That way you can grab any ROMS you want before they are taken down.
@Cobalt No, ridiculous is suggesting that Nintendo has made enough money on these games and that they should allow anyone else to profit off of them.
@PanurgeJr I can agree that these sites shouldn't be profiting from them but free sharing should be allowed. Atleast for games that Nintendo isn't actively selling themselves.
Even though emulators by themselves are not illegal under US copyright law, yes, ROM files themselves are, well, illegal.
@mikegamer ROM files themselves are, well, illegal.
How many criminals were made when Nintendo started the VC in 2006?
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-18-did-nintendo-download-a-mario-rom-and-sell-it-back-to-us
But it is totally ok when Nintendo does it
@Crono1973
I don't really get this statement, people bought Nintendo games from Nintendo on the VC.
@PanurgeJr
5€ the NES rom today ?
8€ the SNES rom today ?
Please... enough is enough...
@Spudworthy People bought ROMS from Nintendo and apparently Nintendo even took their SMB ROM off the internet. ROMS are only illegal when YOU do it I suppose.
I really wish Nintendo would get their act together with their back catalogue, I the only game I've ever emulated was Mother 3 because there's no way for me to buy an official English version. I will GLADLY purchase the game if they ever release it in the West. I get that they're defending their property, and I agree with what they're doing, but people will pay for these games and it can't be that much work on their end.
That being said, there must be a reason for them ditching Virtual Console. Hopefully one day we'll get an explanation.
@Spudworthy They ditched it because they want to restart the drip feed with their online service. The didn't want the VC branding because people would want backward compatibility with the ROMS they already bought.
@Crono1973
Well yeah, Nintendo has every right to resell their products, even in ROM form. I get people wanting to play really old games for free, but I see dudes bragging about emulating more recent games like Breath of the Wild and Smash. I don't really see how people who supposedly love Nintendo games can defend not having to support these products.
I just wonder how a site like emuparadise has stayed up so long. I've never heard of these two.
@Crono1973
I don't get it then, if you already bought the roms, what's the problem? I don't think any of us are entitled to getting our VC library carried over to Switch. I have a lot of VC games on Wii, Wii U and 3DS that I can still readily play. I'm not saying I don't question their choices, but people seem to mostly care that they can't play their games on Switch, which was something VC never guaranteed in the first place.
Yep away with it. Take them head on Nintendo.
I used ROMs to put old SNES games I own on my SNES classic plus Chrono Trigger. Ended up loving Chrono and got it on DS.
If the future is all digital, we will rely on these sites to preserve game history.
I see nothing wrong with emulators and ROMs of old consoles.
All this will do is move them all to torrents.
Let us not forget when Nintendo released the classic SNES they took some roms off the internet.
Good.
@John_Deacon that happens because only the News 3ds is capable of emulating a SNES. SNES is hard to emulate.
Granted the GBA is basically a SNES, but the chips run differently from what I understand. Plus hardware vs emulation.
Here are my personal thoughts regarding ROMs and emulation:
1) Older games (even up to the previous console generation) are no longer directly sold or supported by their original publishers. The only options for purchasing them are from the secondary market (like eBay), meaning said publishers (many of whom are now defunct) would never see a penny of that money anyway. This is why, though technically illegal, ROM downloads aren't exactly vigorously pursued and prosecuted by the authorities.
In related news, kiddos, this is precisely why console makers and publishers have pushed online and digital, and why streaming is "the wave of the future". It's not about convenience or the consumer experience; it's all about the business model and controlling/gating that experience (and their precious IP) after the original point of sale (and let's not forget about finding every conceivable means to gouge consumers for more money, such as Season passes, Loot crates, etc., etc....).
2) As many here have already posted, most gamers would readily legally purchase classic games if they were only made available, whether on the eShop, other console stores, Steam, or whatever platform. But because they aren't (and many cannot be brought back for myriad reasons including licensing issues), they are limited to two other choices: make a legal but absurdly expensive purchase on eBay, Amazon Marketplace, etc., or download a ROM for free.
It's a shame that this is an issue at all. Emulation of older games is pretty much the only thing keeping most of them alive by this point, let alone allowing younger gamers the opportunity to experience them. There's quite frankly nothing tangible to be lost from companies like Nintendo turning a blind eye to it (or at least the IPs that aren't major first party games readily found on the eShop now, which is certainly more understandable).
It would be a hugely positive thing for the hobby if, after a set amount of time, games became public domain just like books and other creative works. And it would definitely help to preserve its rich history.
I downloaded a bunch of PS1 roms from coolroms.
bwahahahaha
@Trajan
I agree with you and I'm 50/50 on older game ROMs. I can understand people wanting to download an old SNES game instead of having to buy an actual system and carts because that can get really expensive, hell I can only imagine what a physical copy of Chrono Trigger can run you. However I also understand Nintendo wanting to protect their properties. If they resell their old games like with the NES/SNES mini, I'm all for it. Just give us more of the classics we know. They should have put Chrono Trigger on the SNES mini instead of Star Fox 2. I get that it was a good incentive for collectors, but the game sucked. Luckily I got a copy of Chrono Trigger on DS for $10 during a sale on the Sqenix website.
@Spudworthy O yeah, i remember that sale long ago, got some good DS games from it.
cut off one site, two more shall take it's place.
@DarkLloyd Just more money for Nintendo. Sue one, sue two.
@Spudworthy I am talking about NES, SNES, GB Family & DS games.
@Spudworthy Yeah before I started playing games again last year I wasn't an RPG person, but Xenoblade 2 got me into them. I knew Chrono should have been on it from all thr hype around it so I out it on and played it for 6 hours before realizing that I'd rather play it portably. Ended up making me get a 2ds XL since my phat DS trigger buttons stopped working. Bonus was I could also play the first Xenoblade so it was worth it. I got it new for $40 from Wal-Mart.
It looks like on eBay they are between 50 and 120. Problem is theres a ton of fakes, so you never know.
And the Switch ruined my ability to just play games on tv only.
Tldr: a rom got me to buy a 2ds xl and more stuff from Nintendo.
Instead of NG+ I'll probably play it again on SNES next time though.
@Aozz101x Can you link me to the Dragon Warrior 1, 2 and 3 sale pages?
@Spudworthy A guarantee from Nintendo has nothing to do with peoples expectations from them. Also, Nintendo DID wait as long as they could to tell us that there would be no VC.
@Crono1973 I'm aware of that, I'm just saying people vilify people for using emulators by themselves, when they aren't illegal; hardware cannot be copyrighted.
@Aozz101x Sure, if you like shoddy emulation with the screens being blurry and dark lol
@Crono1973
And people's expectations of them are just that. Expectations.
No one, not a person or a company, is obligated to meet expectations.
@Knuckles-Fajita and the whole commonplace fan rhetoric about porting old games. XD
@Trajan
I'm always glad to hear stories like yours. If people talked about how ROMs motivated them to go out and spend money to support the product, I wouldn't have any problem with the community whatsoever. All too often, I see people reveling in the fact that they can download games for free so that they never have to spend a penny. It's shameful, and I don't see why it's something to brag about.
I only play ROMs of games I own for my broken SNES.
Easier than going out and getting it fixed.
@nab1 I think it depends where the owner lives and where the website is hosted. It seems to be hard to take legal actions depending where they are located.
Curiously most of the long standing websites with this type of content are from Russia, China and Hong Kong.
The question on my mind is:
Why now? Roms have been around for a long time.
these two sites dont actually looki like they contain roms more data phisihng or con sites
This shall happen!
@Cobalt "5€ the NES rom today ?
8€ the SNES rom today ?
Please... enough is enough.." you do realize people sell the carts to these games for a heck alot more on Ebay and such? like for 1000s or even more then that (even for games that are awful )
I can see there's alot of cheapskates here wanting Nintendo's classic games for free.
All Nintendo needs to do here is put the VC games (hopefully more then just NES and SNES stuff) on the Switch, and try to have a way so you can get VC games you brought on the Wii U or 3DS, or at least a discount system like the Wii U had.
Quick everyone get your Roms before they disappear 😝
"According to the source, this could theoretically equate to $100 million in damages."
Wow.
@AtlanteanMan Good overview of the issues involved here. I agree completely.
@shaneoh same, never heard of them either, thought it was gonna be one of the ACTUAL big ones that people go to all the time. Emupar..... Is on that springs to mind.
@Moonlessky @DiscoDriver43 I remember that story and was going to mention it also.
Lucky I have it all on a usb stick
Why are people so salty about ROMs that no companies release on systems anymore? For decades!
Gaming is now THE biggest money maker in the entertainment business. Bigger than movies.
I mean, I use ROMs, don't give a [removed] what people think, but when they were on the Wii/WiiU I bought a them as well.
But my god, there is MILLIONS of games going back decades that will NEVER see the light of day, unless, you're willing to pay some no-body €1000 just for one physical game (more power to you). But I'll stick with buying games for my PS4, Switch, and XBO.
Retropie forever though!
@AlternateButtons I buy many games, but I occasionally download some roms of older games. There are many which can no longer be bought except by paying ridiculous prices second hand. And the original publisher does not make any money from that anyway.
@subpopz lol very true. Ironically, If Nintendo had gone after the rom sites, 20 years ago they never would have become acceptable. It happened because they weren't enforcing it.
@Spudworthy All too often, I see people reveling in the fact that they can download games for free so that they never have to spend a penny.
Really, I rarely see that. What I see much more of is people asking Nintendo to bring games to the VC.
@subpopz Well see, making a copy of a ROM isn't the same as stealing a motorcycle.
That's pretty thuggish when quite a lot of those games aren't available on current consoles.
@Crono1973
See, this is the problem I have. People can set their own benchmarks and draw their own lines on what is ethical and what isn't. It's that kind of fragile morality that allows people to draw the line further, depending on what suits their own needs.
@Spudworthy Nintendo is drawing lines too. They won't sell these games/ROMS to you but they also don't want you to get them online. If Nintendo could stop the used trades online, I have no doubt that they would.
@Crono1973
I'm one of those people, but objectively I can't fault Nintendo. I'm not owed anything . Companies provide the products they want to sell, and you can either purchase said product or choose not to. I'm not going to go into a Wal-Mart and steal one of their cash registers just because it isn't for sale.
If you guys want to play roms of old games on your PC, go for it. I just don't understand why you're beating your chests and blaming Nintendo for doing so. It's almost as if you feel guilty about it or something.
@Crono1973
They don't want you to play copies of games for free that you'd otherwise have to pay for. These are their products. Products that they created to make money off of. Publishers and developers don't create games out of the goodness of their heart, so people can play them and they get nothing in return. That's not how a business works.
@Aozz101x
That kind of thing is okay with me. If you purchased a game and want to download the rom for it, I don't see anything ethically wrong with that.
Nintendo don't play...
Look, all I'm saying is that if I created something, if i worked my ass off for a year or a few years, to create a product that I wanted people to pay for and enjoy, I'd be a bit disheartened that people cared about my product, but didn't want to pay and support me. That's all I'm trying to get at. Ethically, this whole thing is all over the place. If you do it, fine, but you shouldn't need to defend yourself and make the other party look like the bad guy.
As someone who's hoping to get in the business after my degree, I completely support Nintendo here. I'm an absolute hypocrite though as I have used these websites in the past. I hope Nintendo do release their retro games in an easier format so I can support them properly. I think they should take a lighter approach to ROM hackers though. Sega have used the sheer talent of the Sonic modding community to create Mania so I think Nintendo could learn a thing from them.
“Quick, there’s a hole in the dam, stick your finger in it”
“But there’s 5 other holes....and another 2 just appeared”
I'm sorry, as much as I like Nintendo, they're the only video game company out here still trying to sue for 30+ year old ROMs. It's about as useless as trying to catch air with your hands.
@Crono1973 Exactly. One purchase across PS3/Vita/PSP and its yours.
Is there a generation that regard older games as public domain or something? Huh.
@Matthew010 Who knows?
I feel divided on this one. When a company like Capcom, Konami, Nintendo and others are still using their back catalogue I feel that it is right for them to defend themselves.
When a game’s rights are murky with who owns what (Guardian Legend) or ignored (Nearly all of Sega’s 8-Bit catalogue) then I feel it is okay to download.
@Stocksy (answer to post #12 and other similar posts, somewhere up there)
So what? Does this mean that they don't have to pursue their rights? If you made something and therefore you owned it, I bet you would be really mad if I came and made copies of your creation and started selling them for a profit too without letting you know and share with you the money.
Fair enough. It's fully within their rights to stop this. But I sure don't feel bad for Nintendo, and I understand why people pirate games. If Nintendo made it easy for consumers to purchase their old games (as they should), then by all means, stop the pirating. But their apathy and lack of business sense helped create this mess, so they can take a long walk off a short pier.
@Matthew010 that's a BS response, people pirate stuff no matter the price and availability. And even if the game is not available, it's still illegal to pirate. I fully support Nintendo in this. Technically they could also take legal action against anyone downloading ROMs
@Aozz101x So even you admit that Nintendo's own emulators aren't that great. Unofficial ones are always superior.
@TJSpyke Lol good luck enforcing that
@Robo64 it's illegal, so Nintendo has the right to stop them. Also, Nintendo is one of the only companies that has decades old games that still sell. Look at the list of top selling eShop games last week, most of them are NES and SNES games. No one is clamoring to buy Alex Kidd games...
@mikegamer some emulators are better, many are worse. And Nintendo could successfully sue the people who download them, they just usually don't because it's a bad PR move (like when the RIAA went after people downloading MP3s, eventually they realized it looked better to just go after the sites offering them)
@Spudworthy: "I just don't understand why you're beating your chests and blaming Nintendo for doing so. It's almost as if you feel guilty about it or something."
Sometimes, people only defend their stance, when they feel even slightly guilty, whether they actually are, or not. I'm not referencing any specific user here; I'm talking about anyone.
@Everybody_Else: I understand the emotional side of saying that, X co. doesn't make money off of, or sell X game/console/accessory anymore. That argument, however, does not really hold water, because it is still technically, the intellectual property, belonging to whoever currently owns it. It is totally up to the current owner(s), whether, or not they make their works available, or even if they are making money off it. The only time that argument is valid, is concerning games/consoles/accessories that have no current owners.
@mikegamer in a "weird way" yes. although, i'll admit i've used a bunch of emulators for pc ever since i've started of backing up my games that i've bought.
@Cosats they can do what they like. They won’t get blood out of a stone and it won’t stop people using roms. 90% aren’t available anywhere and most involved in development of retro games approve of the use so games that are no longer available live on.
If Nintendo allowed us to buy them all we would
So now we hate emulation and ROMS. Make up your mind Nintendo Life. First you glorify hackers and modders with your articled now you want them shutdown? I don't understand this site anymore.
‘Batman’ for NES by Sunsoft will probably never enter the market again, a shame.
And what's the name of these terrible sites?
And here was me thinking I had an amazing experience with this the other day:
https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/67668/eternal-darkness-played-on-an-oculus-rift#latest
But I guess ROMs must be evil to allow such an experience that is [certainly currently] entirely impossible any official way (especially the [entirely not part of the original] stereoscopic 3D part of this particular game).
@BensonUii Let’s talk about Scott Pilgrim.
@Spudworthy I'm not going to go into a Wal-Mart and steal one of their cash registers just because it isn't for sale.
This is only comparable if you could download a COPY of a cash register on the internet without taking Wal Mart's cash register away from them.
Also, cash registers are for sale, just not at Wal Mart. Many of these games are no longer on sale anywhere except the second hand market which Nintendo makes no money from anyway. Nintendo is losing no money on games that they don't have on offer to sell.
@EightBitMan "A game / build (and if possible it's source code) should become public domain after xx amount of years, period."
in my opinion, software should become public domain as soon as its owner stop making it available to their customers. If they don't want and/or cannot sell something anymore they are not going to earn anything from it anymore anyway, and having those software as public domain would prevent them from disappearing.
Sounds like they tracked down whoever sold me a modded snes classic on eBay with 151 nes and 151 snes games loaded on it...
as everyone says, Nintendo needs to allow people a way to get to their back catalogue. Maybe they will come out with a Netflix style virtual console some day.
emulatorparadise.com?
New games fair enough but old roms? Why bother its not exactly making a difference to Nintendo and the reality is that a large portion of these games will never be available for sale again due to licensing issues. Nintendo could put all of tgese on Switch yet have no interest so why shouldn't people play them on other devices, particularly when most have bought these games at one point or another
Seeing as the info wasn’t in the article explicitly, the two sites are LoveROMs and LoveRETRO. If you go to their website now, you’ll see the following message:
“Loveroms has effectively been shut down until further notice. Legal action is being taken against us by Nintendo and until we figure it out, the site will remain down.
Thanks for your patronage to date and we hope to get this figured out.”
For those who kept mentioning Emuparadise don't be surprise if that one is gone tomorrow too.
According to emu paradise, the top 10 most downloaded SNES ROMs are Super Mario World, Super Mario All Stars, Zelda: A Link to the Past, Chrono Trigger, DK Country, Super Mario Kart, Megaman X, Earthbound, Yoshi’s Island, and Super Mario RPG. All but one of those games are available on the SNES Classic Edition, and most are available on at least one Virtual Console. So spare me the “but they’re just obscure games that are never getting released again” BS. It’s a matter of people thinking they’re entitled to play games without paying for them.
Nintendo care about some things with the Switch(likethe games) but don't care about others(like putting Gamecube games on the switch or giving us local save backup).
@Euler Most of top N64 Games on there are already was/is remade, released on VC.
Super Mario 64 (VC Wii/Wii U, Remade on DS)
Ocarina of Time (VC Wii/Wii U, Remade on 3DS)
Super Smash Bros (VC, Wii) - glad i got it before nintendo, ended on buying Wii Shop Channel
Pokemon Stadium 2 (Not Released on VC/or been Remade)
Mario Kart 64 (VC, Wii/Wii U)
GoldenEye (Not Released on VC, has been remade for Wii/XB360/PS3)
The Legends of Zelda - Majora's Mask (VC, Wii/Wii U, Remade for 3DS)
Donkey Kong 64 (VC, Wii/Wii U)
Paper Mario (VC, Wii/Wii U)
Wow, already 150 posts. 😀

(Keep eating popcorn and watching the debates).
I still find it hilarious that people are so against WiiU/PS360/PS4/XB1 ports on Switch but will gladly take NES-GCN ports.
Anyway, some folks here seem to forget that Nintendo still sells a ton of classic games on 3DS and Wii U. Just because there isn't any classic games on Switch(well, aside from Hamster's and the Arcade Archives) doesn't make this case irrelevant or anything.
@Syrek24 I already had all the roms of all the games released on Virtual Console that I wanted before Virtual Console existed, but as soon as those games were released on Virtual Console I bought all of them. I even bought them twice when they were released on the 3DS too (some of them because not all of them have been released on 3DS). Not everybody who play with roms is a thief who just want to play games for free. There are people who just care about the games and are ready to pay for them as soon as it is possible, as soon as the owners distribute them again.
And retrogaming and piracy are two completely different things. I never played a pirated "modern" game because I care about them and I want both to support them and show to the developers what kind of games I like by buying them (and not buying the ones that I don't like).
I agree that we don't have the right to play a commercial game for free, but at the same time I don't think that owners of the IPs have the right to let their own games get lost and disappear but that's exactly what they do often. I don't want that to happen. I'm against piracy but I'm not against roms of older games, at least the ones that owners don't care anymore to distribute or simply cannot distribute anymore because they became licensing mess.
If there was a law to regulate this and somebody officially tasked to preserve the games that original owners don't care about anymore by making them public domain and keep them in an archive, then rom sites could be made completely illegal and shut down immediately and I would be fine with that. Honestly I think it would be the best thing, but nobody has done something like that yet. I hope that someday it will happen.
So we are falling on the side of buying used physical copies to downloading ROMS?
Hmm... maybe this means Nintendo's online service may feature all their console catalog of games after all. Eliminate top pirates that have all of Nintendo's catalog to maximize Nintendo Switch Online profits. The timing to go so hard after this is intriguing if you read between the lines.
[removed]
Also, Nintendo downloads ROMS themselves. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-18-did-nintendo-download-a-mario-rom-and-sell-it-back-to-us
Nintendo themselves used dumped NES ROMs taken from the net when they made the Wii Virtual Console. The ROMs Nintendo used had an iNES header which was one of the very first emulators.
@Medic_alert You're somehow assuming that the vast majority of the people that download ROMS and use emulators are looking to PAY for those games.... when everyone knows that they're only into getting old school/retro games for free.
@readyletsgo
Yes when I saw an article on another site I was thinking that paradise where the Emus live would have been one of the targets.
The legality of ROM sites has been one of the most pointless debates of modern media. It is illegal, end. The other side is the customer experience. If you create your own ROM from your own media you purchased, legal. That is effort tho and 99.9% of people aren't dumping their own ROMs. Essentially you are making a backup of your media which is covered under the DMCA (or whatevers in your country). Especially since old media is so volatile.
The real problem is publishers and game franchises on Nintendo's side can't seem to grasp the concept that cross-franchise ANYTHING is pretty impossible. That is why the "minis" always have a lacking selection and are missing best titles. Why in the hell are companies still trying to do this? Nintendo is basically flipping us off. They don't care we care about their games.
That is why franchises need to be releasing compendiums of their work (if they exist at all) that they own most of the licenses to. That way there is more control and compendiums on Nintendo hardware are actually released. Then we don't depend on Nintendo slamming their oaf head against a wall.
Even still I feel like using licensing issues as a reason to not give a good quality compendium of old games is a cop out. This discussion has been going on almost 20 years, if not longer. Has nobody figured out how to get along across licensing barriers after this long?
It is almost like people are afraid of doing real work anymore. Like, oh dear... we have to communicate... and set terms... and get along. Yikes.
Edit:
This reminds me of the Beavis and Butthead re-release. They took out ALL the music videos for licensing issues. The music video banter made the show what it was...... yet the MTV corporation (founded on the fact music videos are so awesome) wont' even do the work to figure out the licensing issues. Yet all the copies online w/ the music videos are illegal because they were recorded off TV and distributed without permission.
Corporations do not care about the culture they create... at all.
@3bodyproblem A friendly reminder that 'DMCA' exists only in the United States. It's completely irrelevant to the rest of the world.
@c2017nlifemedia Lol, as if other countries don't have similar laws. Most countries outline how you are legally allowed to backup media and distribute it. Also, the context of this article is ROM sites hosted in the USA. Which is why I mentioned the DMCA.
Nice job missing the point of my post tho. Tangents are better suited for trig.
Just put it all on a Netflix style service with the online subscription Nintendo and maybe I will care about you’re excessive whining.
@TJSpyke Even though under US law, the software itself is not illegal. There are plenty of sources out there, including this, https://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/Sony_v_Bleem.htm
"Piracy doesn't hurt companies people who pirate weren't going to buy games anyways" That doesn't give you the right to someone elses work you dumb a-holes.
@mikegamer ROMs aren't even illegal if you make your own dumping/backup hardware... which isn't too crazy to do. Lots of how-to's online. I wish people thought more like that instead of trying to fight the system. The solution already exists.
Sans the guy or gal who absolutely has to play something expensive. Most carts are not that expensive so I do not know why people gripe about it.
If you are still worried about the cost... simply buy a japanese cart. Dump it legally yourself... and download a legal language patch. Japanese version of Chrono trigger is like 10 dollars. Do some effort, learn to solder, put some boards together... and empower yourself. Rather than fight Congress or something over it. Once we can all backup any media on our own we do not rely on these VC or random crap.
Plus the ROM is the most versatile piece of game media. Proprietary cartridges, discs etc. are a pain. Eventually you can put emulators on any device. ROMs > *
Also the Retrode exists if you are lazy. It works really well. I have all the adapters so I can play Atari, SMS, N64 w/ on my computer w/ the original cart and controller. ANY REGION.
The idea that if a company doesn't sell you a product in a format you want and at the price point you want then you're justified in illegally obtaining a free copy of that product is absurd.
The point of this whole news blurb seems to be lost on most readers. Nintendo didn't go after some middle aged gamer playing Mother 3 on their iPad. They went after a group of people turning a profit from a large, well known website that exists primarily to illegally distribute software. This wasn't some altruistic endeavor of people fishing long lost prototypes out of the company garbage can. It really isn't that much different in essence than a sweatshop pumping out bootleg HK silvers, the main difference being instead of raking in the sheckles from physical sales it's from ad revenue and "donations" for premium access.
Defend the concept of dumping ROMs and game preservation all you want, I can get behind that. Turning that around and using that argument to defend these leeches actions?
That's like defending a drug cartel because you support medicinal marijuana.
@Azathoth I've been mad about this for decades but I fixed my problem years ago. I agree it is dumb to rationalize downloading ROMs off a website (especially in USA it is illegal).
Been buying cheap as hell japanese carts, dumping them myself and getting the legal language patches. There is really no reason to complain. Personally I get more mad at the VC prices of games than the actual state of emulator/ROM community
In fact if more people handled their own crap Nintendo might get scared about losing money and bow to consumer demand. But we are all kinda playing into their hand now.
MTX on VC = milking us for money. Not preserving culture or enabling customers to have a better user experience. All this proprietary crap is dumb. Companies just need to flat out sell you a ROM; not a proprietary format that has no distinct benefit in the long run. Other than becoming unsupported and ignored. Would be different if all consoles were backwards compatible more.
This is why I don't use Steam anymore and switched to GoG since you get the actual files. Eventually these VC will go away and your entire virtual library will be down the drain. At least with GoG you have the installation files still if the CMS dies.
@Trajan are you serious a SNES is hard to emulate even for today's more powerful processors? Well, to be honest I don't understand how the consoles work inside, so I may have said bs really. But if you can give some general explanation on why it's hard to emulate SNES games, I'd appreciate it, man
You guys are all idiots... people are now stealing 'roms' directly from Nintendo server. There's no need for middleman pirates to distribute roms on websites.
Those old retro roms are worthless, it's the Wii U, 3DS and Switch roms that people are actively stealing from Nintendo's server and there's nothing Nintendo can do about it due to the way their system were setup.
This is just Nintendo venting their frustration.
@Nincompoop
First thing to be fixed is NOT the server.
But OUR DESIRE to take something DON'T Belong to us.
Fix that desire, we can control ourself to NOT get into Piracy.
@Syrek24
Yo, i LOVE your statement against the piracy !
@0muros
"Nintendo's gonna win!! They're rough enough for that."
Amen !
Not that it matters to me, I have most old-school game libraries stored away on external backups, though once something is on the internet it is on there forever so this is just posturing.
If Nintendo can get $10m - $100m out of this, this is a great source of revenue.
More than they will ever get out of those ROMs directly.
Win-win.
I've heard many stories about companies like SEGA, Nintendo, & Sony losing copyright battles to things like Game Genie that make me suspect there will be some kind of legal loopholes that make them lose this too. ROM hacks, for example, are transformative & probsbly fall under fair use. Then there's probably some statue of limitations on suing over franchises the company didn't bother renewing. If anything, the lawsuit would be on a game-by-game basis & going after host sites is pointless when it doesn't punish the ones actually making the emulators or the ports.
I'd be more sympathetic if it only applied to current gen games, but I'm on the side of preserving lost media of the far past, invlufing unfinished leaks of unreleased games. ::Jab at Konami::
@TJSpyke Maybe if you'd actually read my full response, you would've seen I said "But that'll never happen". So the only BS response around here is yours.
Copyright law is [removed] anyhow. Thanks Disney.
That being said, my personal view on it would still say that Nintendo is in the right. Their videogames have been around since the 80's and that is still not a super long time, pretty much everyone involved in the games made are still alive too. the OG Zelda is old, but Miyamoto is still kicking around and making use of the Zelda brand to our delight.
This case is just massively overblown though. Everyone knows that rom sites don't actually make money. 100 million dollars? Give me a break. I would say they will get a small fine maybe, or an injunction to cease providing the software on their sites.
I await final result either way. Nintendo Ninjas are ruthless and unfeeling psychopaths, so I doubt this will end in any way other than those sites are toast.
@Lone_Beagle what makes Arizona any different?
@Nincompoop well, if people are getting the newer RoMs from Nintendo's server & the old ROMs are useless, why would that site exist? I see you're saying it's a frivolous lawsuit, but lets wait & see what the business gets fined. I know they won't get what Nintendo asked unless they opt for a jury trial & some crazy judgement is levied, but if what you're saying is true, there shouldn't be much of a fine, right?
Sad that Nintendo Life promotes emulators That is supporting copyright infringement
@Anti-Matter Thanks man!
@Matthew010 everything don't need to be for free lol
I'm glad Nintendo is doing this.stop the theifts
@nab1 Because they're doing it with new games that are actually being sold if you read the original article you would figure that out.
They're not after the old roms they are only after the sites that sell roms of new games still being sold from the factory! I wish people would realize that because it does state that in the original article and they're not after the hobbyist like us who just wanna play the classics on pc.
@Slim1999 I gave a simple example. I didn't say it had to be free.
I liked LoveROMS…
Playing Devil's Advocate: People will pirate regardless. And I dont care about piracy of old games, especially if a company is no longer around to bring their games to the modern era. You can't really profit when your giving them away anywho.
Of course Nintendo is only doing what is legally right, so its not like I don't understand that.
This is in response to the success of the NES and SNES classics. Raise your hand if you hacked them to play additional games. (raises hand high i the sky)
Nintendo needs to get its act together when it comes to selling retro games. I should NOT have to purchase a SNES game for example, multiple times, across several Nintendo platforms. Nintendo should take a look at how Microsoft treats its consumer base, not Sony.
@Garretts_Studio Ok, thanks for the unnecessarily condescending response!
Nintendo can profit off of selling retro roms; I know that this has been said many times before but the market is truly there! If they team up with the likes of Gamestop who is having a bad business life, they could have Gamestop sell the Roms and both compnies could benefit from this union! Should we make excuses for stealing? NO! but, if Nintendo don't do the right thing people will do these things.. I know part of it is marketing to get people to buy their new stuff, but a lot of us are stuck in the past and will buy the new stuff like the switch, but still would like to play the older things. Residual income is what they are losing out on and I say give people a legal way to play these games on emulators or what ever systems! I don't know if Nintendo will ever listen to the voice of the people, because most companies don't, but if people start not buying any Nintendo product maybe our voices will be heard! Lift up your voices by closing your wallet as not only the people who are pirating these roms are crooks, so are companies like nintendo!
Yeah, don't list the names of the sites or anything, I'm sure no one reading this was interested in knowing them... @_@ And of course there have been developments to this story too now, but hey, Sunday is the day of rest after all, so, far be it from me to criticize your lack of updating/revising of this article...but perhaps...you may do so tomorrow?
@3bodyproblem I can't stand original hardware on modern TVs, and I can't be bothered to buy a CRT, too cumbersome and expensive. So I play with original carts on an Analogue Super NT, all the hardware of an Snes on an FPGA and with full 1080p visuals, so...yeah, no RGB modding an Snes for me. I refuse. A retrode USB is nice for backing up games, yes.
@EightBitMan amen brother.
@islaguam96915
It shouldn't be Nintendo's job to pacify pirates. People asking for a netflix style VC or their older software to be made available for free if Nintendo are attempting to stamp out piracy. Remember you've taken from them not the other way round.
@mikegamer yeah me either... idk what you are even talking about. lol i figured by the context of my posts, only talking about ROMs, that I would be emulating them on PC. who the fk RGB mods anything anymore when you can use HDMI and graphics processing for better visuals.
you can even buy a board to solder into an original NES that upgrades to USB compatibility so you aren't weighted down by ancient tech. and can actually play your original NES through your PC graphics processing (with emulator to look way way way better)
retrode is good for playing. i made a smart TV and it will load as a removable media and have the ROM available on it. so i can actually use the retrode like a console independent from a standalone PC if I needed to bring it to a friend's place. my "smart tv" is a mini-pc btw that just plugs in w/ hdmi & usb =)
kiinda like the Analogue Super NT thingy you got, looks neat
@Medic_alert lol people have into the classic nes/snes mini all the time to get all the games. But they'll fight that 15 years later 😂
Loads of pompous self righteous buffoons on here that have little or no knowledge on the subject and I suspect many of those just spouting the age old “you wouldn’t steal a game from a shop and this is the same” are teenagers....
Nintendo themselves don’t believe that.
If only the World was as black and white.
Things like ROMs and MAME fall into a very grey area and that’s why Sites like this aren’t Automatically shut down when they are so brazen about their content.
There is a fair chance Nintendo lose this but the site is ordered to remove some of the content.
Either way ROMs and emulators will live forever and games that would be lost forever will be kept alive.
I guarantee many programmers, staff and senior management at Nintendo use emulators and roms on a regular basis and laugh when they read the nonsense that’s in this thread.
@Painkiller_Mike they say the games are affordable and cheaper, so they do that.
all i hear is, Nintendo succeeds off micro-transactions and not allowing cross-platform support gets them more transactions.
@Dr_Lugae I'm not talking about pacifying pirates, I'm speaking of putting them out of business! If there was a viable and legal way of getting these roms nobody would look to the pirates as most people would opt for the legal way! With a fair price and good costumer most people would do the honest thing. Nintendo and others makes it easy for these crooks to do business on the internet, but it is not only Nintendo and the other companies losing out when someone downloads these roms they also use things like malware to steal your personal info and sell it to the underworld too!
Maybe they were paying NIN for all those times but finally stop and got the notice from NIN for cease and decease if your not paying your not producing it. For anyone out there IP and Copyright are the Bread/Butter of the company survival otherwise why would they exists-for legit companies not shadow company. So before blasting NIN think of what you be doing if NIN didn't exists. You'll never experience NIN unless you went only to Japan.
@Banjos_Backpack They could've made kiosks possible, by letting people hook up their Classic Editions to browse games from their back catalogues like the missing Mega Man Titles, Final Fantasy II/IV, and more. and pay for each individual title. But the problem with that is scalpers making people envious. That would've been the LEGAL way to add more games rather than wait for new Themed Classic Editions with different game selections in there.
@NGamerCole LoveROMS and LoveRETRO are the 2 sites.
We need Nintendo's full back catalogue available before I think they have the right to crush all ROM sites. At the moment their seminal releases and select third party content get an airing, anything a little obscure though and you can forget it.
@EightBitMan There's a big difference between legally archiving old games and illegally selling electronic copies of those archived games. Plenty of people are doing a good job of preserving retro games without breaking the law, and if it ever came to the point that a company wanted to re-release a retro game of which they no longer had a copy, it wouldn't be very difficult to come to a legal agreement with someone who has preserved a copy.
Alright, a major developer is finally going directly after the ROM distributors! Shutting them down will at least make a little harder to find ROMs of certain rarer titles, and it'll serve as progress as well as a threat as they continue to track down and take action against the others. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, after all.
@Kirby-in-Kirkby It is available as much as is feasibly possible. Everything they could release up to the N64 was released between the Wii, Wii U, and 3DS Virtual Consoles, and of those all of the first and second party titles are still available on the Wii U and/or 3DS. It's not their fault that you can't get a certain third party title or something that has complicated licensing and/or rights issues such as certain Rare titles on the N64.
@islaguam96915 Well, you've must've been on a deserted island for at least the last 12 years. There's this thing Nintendo came up with back in 2006 where they legally sell you ROMs of their back catalog. It's called the Virtual Console.
@Stocksy Um, no, distributing ROMs without permission of the copywrite holders has always been blatantly illegal. Of course, Nintendo exes use emulators and ROMs. That's how the Virtual Console exists! They're allowed to sell ROMs of their own property and the property of third parties with whom they have licensing deals. These ROM sites certainly do not have licensing deals of their own.
@BulbasaurusRex I don’t think you got what I meant.
They play roms of other games. MAME - Sega. Whatever.... I 100% guarantee loads of them do.
They are massive with those that make and create games....
It’s only stropy moralistic nerdy teenagers that make a big deal about it.
Of course companies will look to protect their back catalogue.
Nobody has issue with that.
That is such a small part of the rom, MAME and emulator community.
@Stocksy I bet they don't (unless legally purchased from a legitimate service), but we don't have any evidence either way.
It's all morally upright people who have a problem with piracy, which should be most of civilized society. It's only the sketchy delinquents and thieves who don't have a problem with it.
If nobody has an issue with Nintendo protecting their back catalog, then everyone should be in favor of shutting down these ROM distributors.
Sure, there are legal uses for emulators (which is by far the small part of the community), but that's clearly not what these web sites are for. Nintendo is shutting them down for illegally distributing their games (among others), not for offering emulators and indie freeware ROMs.
@BulbasaurusRex you haven’t a clue and clearly haven’t followed the gaming industry since the 80s.
Those of us that have know there is more to it than the simplistic view you and other teenagers take.
Having spent 10s of thousands on games and game related content - I have supported the gaming industry and continue too in multiple ways.
I play roms of games and arcade machines that other wise would be impossible to play.
Some of these roms have been obtained directly from guys that were involved in the creation of the games and they more than support the use of the roms so that people are still enjoying the otherwise gone forever games.
@Sgt-Jack-V @readyletsgo Mind your language!
@twztid13 Just search for NES or SNES roms, you will find hundreds of websites hosting them. They have been there since the late 90s, archived like a library. They were not as sought after as they used to be.
Nintendo sue these sites once in a while, but the roms will always be freely available on the internet. Nintendo knew that, but it's a routine they did for many years. They sued the one in US because the law allows them to... those in Russia, China or South America are immune.
Nintendo Life forgot to update this article from yesterday:
"Update July 22: LoveRETRO has been pulled offline.
“Loveretro has effectively been shut down until further notice. Thanks for your patronage to date and we hope to get this figured out.”
LoveROMS, meanwhile, has removed all Nintendo titles."
LoveROMS is still in operation, they just removed links to Nintendo ROMs and emulators to avoid further scrutiny. This is a key point: "Both sites are believed to be operated by Jacob Mathias and his Arizona company Mathias Designs LLC." If they weren't profiting off of the site used to run the ROMs, Nintendo would have a much harder time targeting them. Most ROM sites operate without any profit.
Also, as much as some may hate to admit it, we have to remember this:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-18-did-nintendo-download-a-mario-rom-and-sell-it-back-to-us
https://kotaku.com/virtual-console-is-not-coming-to-switch-nintendo-says-1825848253
https://www.geek.com/games/nintendo-switch-now-has-a-virtual-console-sort-of-1691743/
Due to this, a post on LoveROMS' Facebook page has a point:
"Davin Fraser Ockerby
Virtual Console wouldn't have been possible without preserving ROMs on the internet, so Nintendo should be thankful for the ROM sites hosting ROMs, because preserving video games is important for historical purposes and for availability. Even though it is within a copyright holder's legal right to take court action, copyright holders should never really bully or request removal of games that have been available for more than 3 years, otherwise some games may end up being lost in history and never seen again.
The Wii Virtual Console will be no more after January 2019. Many of the titles available for download have made their way to the Wii U VC, yet there are many more which did not. (And the Wii U VC will eventually be no more, either.)
For example, Monster World 4 got a special localization for the VC for it's first time release outside Japan. The only way that new players will ever be able to play that localized version of the game, without having purchased it before the service is ended, will be to download it's ROM files off the internet.
Without a legal avenue of access by Nintendo, there will be no other choice. In cases such as this, it is justified to have them be available online for the sake of historical preservation. Otherwise, the localized version of Monster World 4 would eventually be lost forever to the sands of time.
Meanwhile, Nintendo STILL has given no solid indication whatsoever that they will reintroduce the VC as we know it to the Switch. Take heed- there's only a little more than 5 months left. Then the largest official digital repository of Nintendo's (and possibly also for NEC's TG-16/PC-Engine) home console backlog will no longer be widely available to the general public...
According to Wikipedia:
As of January 26, 2017, there are 398 titles for NA Wii VC, and only 267 titles for NA Wii U VC. As of December 8, 2016, there are 385 titles in EU and 384 titles in Australia and New Zealand for the Wii, and only 258 titles for the EU/AU/NZ Wii U VC. Meanwhile, there are currently 659 titles for Japanese Wii VC, and only 466 titles available for the JP Wii U VC.
@vice350z If they DO come back, then they better get a SEGA Makeover.
@PlywoodStick LoveRoms now shut down.
@vice350z Thanks for the update! It's even been prevented from access through screenshots of past records of the site using archive.org. Unless the site somehow returns in some other form, or the robot associated with archive.org is removed, LoveROMs is now absolutely inaccessible.
@Matthew010 For Free? You mean full of ads and possibly malware? No thanks.
@Heavyarms55 Not necessarily free.
For games that aren't being sold anymore, I don't see the problem. I mean, most of the companies that released them don't even exist anymore
@BulbasaurusRex
The free sharing of previously published information is still the most legitimate, ethically defensible, just, fair, and socially productive means of distributing or obtaining popular content.
This is true regardless of those who spuriously label it "piracy" (though it has nothing to do with robbery on the high seas) and try and pretend this damageless, victimless act is somehow unethical.
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...