Federal Government Is Officially Investigating Nintendo For Possible Patent Infringement

I'm still not worried. Surely Nintendo investigated everything when they were developing the Switch. It sucks that companies like this just want to cash in on someone else.

Haven't other companies tried to sue Nintendo for pretty much every device they've released? Nothing to worry about.

LOL.

That's so dumb. That's like arguing that french fries and potato salads are the same because they're made with potatoes

Patent sharks gonna be patent sharks.
Still, guess that's why Nintendo files a lot of patents now.

This can also be seen as a controller with a screen.
Does this mean they stole the concept of every hanheld that has ever existed?

Sigh. Here we go again. Rather than try to make a solid product patent trolls get mad when companies actually put in the work and are successful so they try to hinder that.

Hopefully this bankrupts them and they’re forced to die (: (: (:

Nintendo will grind Gamevice into soft powder...

@gatorboi352 It's the news you've been waiting for. Get your popcorn because you're train is about to enter the station!

Didn’t something similar like this happen to the Wii and DS? Or, maybe it was the 3DS.

This is as stupid and uniformed as voting say a celebrity like Trump President... that would never happen....

No one is that stupid...

It’s like Sony saying it’s like the vita coz it has a screen in middle and takes small cartridges and has a battery

Easiest defence ever, their patent is for attachable controllers to mobile phones, Nintendo's are detachable controllers from their own console.

Now I sincerely hope Gamevice go bankrupt for wanting a free ride on other people's success. What do they make a controller? One that is made up by copying a combination of Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo pads, so how have they got the bloody cheek

Not to mention that I've been gaming since the early 80's and have lost count of how many attachable controllers I've used for my gaming consoles, I'm certain these clowns haven't invented anything.

What about the circle pad PRO for portable gaming or One of the various accessories for the Game Boy. It's not even the only attachable controller for a phone, if I were the judge I fine them heavily for wasting everyone's time

"In the meantime, there is nothing stopping Nintendo from continuing to sell Switches. Additionally, based on the tremendous success of the Switch, it’s unlikely that Gamevice would pursue anything beyond court-ordered royalty payments – considering it’s driving quite a steady stream of revenue at the moment."

Then why this subheadline?:

"Switch sales may be put on hold"

Haha! Good luck Gamevice! Firstly, even though the Switch and their patent/concept share similarities, they're nothing the same. Plus, did Gamevice actually check Nintendo's win/loss ratio in court battles before pursuing this?! I'm thinking not lol!

We need yoshi in our life

@Beatley82 Clickbait

@Stocksy To be fair the other "choice" wasn't any better in Hillary...

The patent is too broad to be valid in the first place.

The emptiest vessel makes the loudest noise.

A little history to put a little more perspective on things.

Gamevice used to be called Wikipad. They had an actual device for sale called the Wikipad. It's in the same patent, it looked like this.

Here's a review of the device on IGN when it came out.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/04/wikipad-gaming-tablet-review

For all of you calling them "patent trolls", you are using it wrong. This was a real company with a real device for sale. The term "patent trolls" are used for companies who patent things with no intention of ever making a device, they just patent ideas in the hopes of suing other companies that make them.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/patent-troll?s=t

Wikipad/Gamevice has made and still makes their own products, therefore they are not patent trolls. They are a company with 20 patents trying to protect those patents for the devices they sell.

Wikipad changed it's name to Gamevice, probably b/c the Wikipad device failed and it was a stupid name to begin with.

Wikipad has about 20 actual patents dating back to 2012, before NX was announced.

https://patents.justia.com/assignee/wikipad-inc

The patent in question contains schematics for both the aftermarket Gamevice accessory and the Wikipad which was sold as a package tablet and controller.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/9126119.pdf

I'm not a lawyer, don't know the merits of the case, don't' know if they'll win. I doubt they'll win b/c Nitneod has more money to spend on lawyers, but in today's America when a US company sues a Japanese company in a US court, well I'm not saying judges are all corrupt, but I'm not betting against a US company in a US court against a Japanese company in America in 2018.

Just giving some details to the story, that's all.

Well unlike other cases this one actually has a point/ a chance to succeed.
Despite the fact that the Wikipad and the Joycons/Switch are very different in the way they function, they do have that one thing in common.

Didn't they file a previous lawsuit against Nintendo for the exact same thing? Whatever happened to that?

@SleeplessKnight Indeed.

Yea Nintendo is gonna win because they have so much money. We love Nintendo. Yea yea yea. Nintendo gonna win.
Yea

This is how the comments section reads

Switch is a hybrid console, not a phone.
nothing to worry about. I hope Nintendo attacks back. Just put reggie in the ring he can take it. Lol

Gamevice needs to die, right now.

@rjejr What Gamevice is doing is still a load of crap, and it's only going to make things worse.

@SleeplessKnight To be more accurate, there were about a dozen or so other republican candidates to choose from. The "no other choice" BS doesn't and never flew. But that's the last I'll comment or indulge in any kind of political debates on here

"Do you think Nintendo intentionally used Gamevice’s ideas and violated its patent – or is this simply par for the course with large companies like Nintendo? "
neither.
nintendo didn't copy anything.
gamevice's concept has 2 interconnected controller pieces.
nintendo switch uses 2 separate unconnected controllers(no bridge) each communicating with the switch independently(no direct communication between the controllers)

@MarioThePainter Make things worse for whom?

More of a load of crap than Apple suing and winning $1B from Samsung b/c the Samsung smartphones had rounded corners?

their patent also says devices that are connected in some way and communicate with each other while the switch controller's become separate controller's.

I don't understand... does this mean that Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo could sue Gamevice for having a controller with twin analogue sticks, and d pad, four face buttons and 2 shoulder buttons?

@Yorumi "I still maintain they're patent trolls"

Well you can maintain that, does'nt mean it's true. Doesn't mean it's the established use of the term "patent troll" by anybody who uses the term "patent troll".

Here's some definitions from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll

1. Purchases a patent, often from a bankrupt firm, and then sues another company by claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent;[6]
2. Enforces patents against purported infringers without itself intending to manufacture the patented product or supply the patented service;[12][13]
3. Enforces patents but has no manufacturing or research base;[14]
4. Focuses its efforts solely on enforcing patent rights;[15] or
5. Asserts patent infringement claims against non-copiers or against a large industry that is composed of non-copiers.[16]

What those explanations have in common is a patent troll is a company that either buys other peoples patents or gets pantents for patents sake only planning on suing others, not making a device. Wikipad/Gamevice made the patents themselves, didn't buy them form anyone, and made and sold and continue to sell the products.

So not only do they nto meet 1 of the criteria for "patent troll" - purchase patents, make no prodocts - they dont' meet either. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Invent something. Patent it. Make the product. Protect your patent via litigation. They are the poster child for how NOT to be a patent troll. You can't get any less patent troll than that.

Now if you don't like the litigious US system, well I'll agree there it's a mess. And if you don't liek the patnet system, well eyah that's a mess too. But within the current system, the only one currently in the US, they are not patnet trolls, they are the oppsoite of pantent trolls.

If every time a small company makes a products, patents it and sells it, and then a big company comes along and makes a similar product, then everybody yells "patent troll" at the smaller company when they try to defend themselves, well then we're all doomed. We're all just brain washed into believing might over right. We should all give up now, b/c anything we have, they'll just take it from us, and the rest of us will be cheering them on against us.

It's like the eminent domain of creativity. The people with the most money win.

@rjejr The only reason they're going after Nintendo is because their product flopped and Nintendo's is thriving and only looks vaguely similar, and the detachable controllers made by Nintendo are proprietary design. These guys are just doing this because they saw their original lawsuit wasn't going to go anywhere so they're crying to the government to basically steal a piece of Nintendo's pie.

There's no debate to be had here, it's the plain truth.

@rjejr Are you mad? Logic has no place in these comments sections, it's all taken by praises for the ground our Holy Father, Son and Spirit Nintendo walks on.

cya
Raziel-chan

@rjejr For Nintendo of course.

We need to boycott Gamevice over this, because what they're doing is straight up criminal.

@rjejr You know it's funny the wikipad looks like a rip off of the wii u gamepad lol.

@rjejr For what it's worth, I appreciate the explanation. I guess I won't consider Gamevice "patent trolls", just people wasting everyone's time. The patent if for a control system that is bought separately from a tablet, while the Switch comes with the devices. The former is an add-on, and the latter is a requirement.

TBH, I think I'd have a bit more sympathy if their second attempt didn't try to block Switch's from coming into the US. It just feels spiteful, like a way to threaten Nintendo into settling.

But they aren’t the same thing. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t patent trolls. They are trying to get a settlement and that’s all. This isn’t even a legitimate claim. And the Wikipad isn’t even similar to the Switch either.

@Andrew5678 I have no sympathy for them whatsoever, and you should join me in boycotting Gamevice for their unethical practices against Nintendo.

Putting aside the law stuff... looking at that image really makes me think that Nintendo could do a Switch Phone. You could do all your regular mobile stuff on it. But put a cartridge slot in the top and suddenly you're playing BotW while waiting in line at the DMV. To me, that would be the best new Switch iteration they could do.

Their gamepad uses a d-pad and X,Y,A,B buttons. The bloody nerve of the people!

They will likely lose the lawsuit and then be forced to pay Nintendo's costs. Hopefully it will bankrupt them.

It's free advertising for Gamevice (did you Google then and check their website and products because of this?)

@Andrew5678 "It just feels spiteful, like a way to threaten Nintendo into settling."

Yeah, unfortunately I'm pretty sure that's the way this stuff always works. It's a huge back and forth with lots of threatening and lawyers and other nonsense. You ask to block things and have them taken off of the shelves, settle for a royalty payment of 1 cent per unit shipped, so if Switch sold 100 million they'd get $1m. Probably doesn't cost them that much in lawyer fees so worth the time and effort.

@dougphisig "wikipad looks like a rip off of the wii u gamepad"

Funny you said that, it's in the review on IGN I posted the link to. First link in #26, it's right near the top. I thought it was funny too.

@MarioThePainter "We need to boycott Gamevice over this, because what they're doing is straight up criminal."

Unless a judge rules in their favor and it turns out what Nintneod is doing is straight up criminal. Now that would be funny, dontcha ya think?

@Razzy "Are you mad?"

Yeah, I got sucked up way too far into this thread and I can't get out.

@MegaVel91 Agreeing on the facts on the matter and agreeing on calling them patent trolls is too different things. I agree w/ everything you said in post #43, I'm only pointing out that the use of the term "patent troll" has a history and it doesn't fit this scenario. They have a product that they sell, still, and as you yourself said "looks vaguely similar". In the US., that "looks vaguely similar" is all you need to take a case to court. Ask Apple, they sued Smasung for $1B b/c Samsung smartphones had the same rounded corners as Apple phones and Apple won. But you never hear people calling Apple patent trolls. Well unless you do, I never have though. Hear people call Apple a lot of good things, and a lot of bad things, but never patent troll.

Anyone interested in what real patent trolls look like Google Lodsys and Intellectual Ventures. Two companies, or more likely just one, who's sole existence was based on suing companies.

@rjejr I feel like this case will be swayed heavily depending on whether or not they took action against motorola's product as well. That seems to be the exact same product, as you place the controller on an already purchased device. Rather than in the Switch's case, it's something that comes as a default controller set.

As far as the wikipad goes you appear to be placing the tablet into a grip fitted with a controller, while with the switch you just place controllers onto the tablet itself.

Meh either way I don't feel like they could get away with the whole "we already have a product out there, and Nintendo's crushing are dreams" argument. Their site seemingly hasn't been updated since launch atleast 4/5 years. They don't appear to be putting any real money towards advertisements, as their previous lawsuit was the first time I've ever heard of this device. And as I said above if they didn't move in on Motorola, it may really show they are not concerned with trying to stir up some sales.

@UmbreonsPapa Don't mistake the illusion of "choice" with actual choice

@Rob3008 yeah, somebody won against Nintendo regarding the 3D technology on the 3DS and won. He now gets a percentage of every 3DS sold.

What a god

I had a quick glance over their Instagram posts, they go back to the start of 2015, 'technically' this company came up with it 2 full years before Nintendo announced and released the Switch.

BUT, couldn't come at a better time for Nintendo, I'm sure with the switch being completely hackable now, Nintendo are on their way to speed out a revised version of the switch. Might as well change the joycons while at it.

@rjejr Thank you for finally pointing out how gamevice are not patent trolls!

@subpopz This looks rather neat by the way)

The patent system is broken - issuing overly broad patents seemingly on a whim.

In this particular instance the Gamevice patent is for controllers that attach to a device. Nintendo’s Switch is a device from which controllers detach. It’s like they’re opposites.

Remember kids, if you can’t innovate; litigate!

That moment when they call the switch a tablet. 😑

I swear if Gamevice somehow wins, what little hope I have left in my government will officially be gone.

Now you’re playing with power. Lawsuit power.

@rjejr Are you seriously rooting for the patent trolls to beat Nintendo?

@Rob3008 The Wii suit, though?

When you look at a Wii U gamepad it's easy to see how the Switch is the next step. Gamevice infringed on the Wii U patent in my opinion.

@Rob3008 You're right, there is nothing to worry about because as consumers, we don't have a dog in this fight.

Oh, you meant that Nintendo can't possible lose because they have been sued and won before? LOL

If Nintendo was told by the US they couldn't sell their console in America, Nintendo would sue THEIR ass.

I don't know how to feel about this.
On one hand, despite actually having valid patents (in regards to the terrible patent system at least), this is clearly a cash grab by Gamevice. And legal or no, cash grabs are scummy and feel gross.

On the other hand, I bought a Gamevice for my phone a couple months ago, and it's actually pretty nice. Decent face buttons and d-pad, actually holds my phone securely, connects via USB rather than Bluetooth, has a full functioning USB and headphone jack passthrough-- it's LEAGUES ahead of almost all other smartphone gaming accessories. Like most Android controllers truly suck; they're flimsy, have terrible buttons, and use pretty unreliable Bluetooth.

So I'm really torn. Gamevice is being really scummy, but their current product is very good and I would like it to succeed. It's a shame they're doing this and tarnishing any good will they might have built up. I also like my Switch, and wish that both products could co-exist in peace.

TL;DR this is why we can't have nice things.

I can't see Switch sales being stopped by some silly mobile device accesory maker. The Joy-Cons do so much more than the clunky Gamevice controllers do, so the ITC would have to be insane to block Switch imports.

@Yrreiht what a beautiful analogy! I’m serious!

Is that a D pad on their controller? Doesn't Nintendo have the patent on that?

There is a lawsuit like this for nearly every Nintendo system, and Nintendo almost always wins.

I remember seeing a photo of a Wii U mock up at Nintendo where a wii remote controller was fastened to either side of a screen.

So this idea of a controller attached to either side of a screen is not new, and is public knowledge from many years ago.

The only real concern Nintendo has, is that other companies may copy the same idea if it proves not to be a patentable invention.

https://www.geek.com/games/no-surprise-wii-u-gamepad-prototype-was-two-wiimotes-taped-to-a-monitor-1531506/

No need to worry this isn't going to get GameVice anywhere fortunately. They are just trying to trick the ITC that Nintendo is ruining their vision of mobile gaming and GameVice thinks they can kill the Switch into it's grave with Wii U

Because there isn't far more important stuff for our wonderful U.S. government to be worried about...

Someone wants to go out with a BANG-kruptcy... Well, at least now I've heard of their name before they went belly up.

Hopefully this goes by quickly and Nintendo comes out the better. If they do, Nintendo needs to hit them back hard after this.

You know your business model is busted when you decide the best course of action is to sue Nintendo. I don't know how many Gamevices they sold, but they certainly won't be selling any more in the future.

Don't be ridiculous. The Gamevice attached to the side of a phone or tablet by clamping and being inserted into the USB or lightning ports. The Switch controllers cannot be attached to any other device than the Switch tablet and it does so with it's own proprietary connection method. Other than they look similar there really is nothing else about them that matches.

To be patent eligible subject matter, an invention must meet two criteria. First, it must fall within one of the four statutory categories of acceptable subject matter: process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter. Second, it must not be directed to subject matter encompassing a judicially recognized exception: laws of nature, physical phenomena, and abstract ideas.

The idea of attachable controllers are abstract idea. The fact that they are attacheable controllers should be irrelevant, only the technology used to make it work is relevant. It's only the actual implementation that is patentable. So if Nintendo implemented this with the same technology as this company, they have a case, otherwise they should not.

Of course, many judges are not philosophical at all, and are easily swayed by any ridiculous argument, or even by personal feelings on the matter.

I think if you sue someone for patent infringement and loose, the defendant should be awarded all rights to use that patent for the future. Just to make a disincentive to sue unless you are very sure you are in the right.

I swear... it seems like whenever Nintendo has a hit on their hands, the vultures come ah flying! The Switch is a cell phone and it also has a pro controller and the 2 joy cons can slide on a device and become a separate controller. Not that much alike!

@ROBLOGNICK While the connection methods are different, I'm not sure if that matters in the eyes of the patent laws. From reading the USITC press release it just says "parts that attach to two sides of an electronic device" so without any specific details on what that connection method must be, it could be Gamevice can sue for pretty much any type of connection be it latches, magnets or even suction cups! (I'm not saying that's right, but it might be how it would be interpreted by lawyers).

I think it's more interesting that the patent is for "a smartphone or tablet", given that the Switch doesn't have an easily accessible browser or any applications for streaming media or making phone calls I wonder if it can fall outside the definition of a tablet or smart phone?

@BulkSlash Does not also mention a "supporting bridge". The Gamecube has something that sits behind the phone or tablet. The joy-cons do not.

It's like when Apple tried to sue Samsung for using a rectangle touch capacitive screen as a mobile...

@Mortenb BINGO! Thank you for a well stated explanation! As for judges in the US....I think Ace Attorney pretty much nails their general level of intellect and character. It varies by state. In some states, mine included, a judge doesn't even need to be a lawyer or have any specific legal knowledge, they're just a body that won the job, usually through knowing the right people. OTOH that also makes it relatively fair as a well reasoned argument from either side can sway them equally. It also makes it bad, because it's not based on case law and evidence but by persuasion of the side with most guile.

@subpopz It does seem like Nintendo is the sole target which actually surprises me. Usually patent trolls sue EVERYONE even remotely peripherally related, they include the retailers that sell all the related products, the marketing firms that advertised for them, EVERYONE, because they'll get payoffs from at least half of them since it's cheaper than litigating. Going after one target makes me think these poor sobs have actually been convinced they have a chance.

@Yorumi It's made twice as fun when a half dozen copies from the exact same molds as Switch exist in China and nobody can do a thing about them flooding fleabay. But this gets investigated.... (albeit, we're pre-evidentiary hearing, so this is kind of clickbait on NLs part....and it's working.)

@Ryu_Niiyama Trouble is we're no longer a society where "hard work and determination" are likely to pay off. The big payoffs and real income either come from having enough money to invest big in the right places (with a little inside info on the side), or by ambulance chasing, suing someone with more to get a slice of it. It's a cornerstone industry all on its own now, with a secondary industry of reactive behavior to try to fend off openings for them preventative.

@rjejr The sole detail that distinguishes Wikipad from the PSP, Vita, GBA, etc. is the fact that the tablet can be detached from the controller. Problem is, lots of OTHER controllers that can be removed from a tablet existed long before. The trouble is what they're suing over is generic tech at this point. They aren't suing over controller design, they're different. They're not suing over console design...even if they tried, they're both quasi reference nVidia products anyway, they're suing over being able to detach a controller from the tablet. However they're not the first to do that either (they themselves could probably be sued for that if they manage to buy a win, amusingly), however Nintendo's controllers have a hard-mount connection, while Wikipad's was BT. Meaning one is an accessory component, one is an integral component that's detachable.

The suit aims to establish not direct infringement but derivation infringement.....problem is how do you "derive" from their patent that was never in production, and patented things that had all been done before (I.E. I doubt their own patent would stand up if challenged....detatchable BT controllers to a screen have been around since the iPhone 3 days at least.)

This is going nowhere, isn't yet close to going anywhere, and NL is milking it for all it's worth.

I hope everyone at gamevice goes bankrupt and if the US acts on this nonsense any remaining respect for my trashheap of a homeland will be dead and gone.

@rjejr Kind of a bummer it has to work out that way, but at least these cases don't usually win. Probably one of the rare times I'm happy bigger companies have tons of cash and lawyers-if the guys suing them don't have a good case, there's no way it'll go through (yeah, I know the opposite is true for genuine cases, but outside of the recent refund policy case, I'm pretty sure they don't usually happen for anyone with game consoles out)

@NEStalgia Man you made me read through a lot of replies to get to mine. I'm going to go find that mortenb guy you seemed impressed with and see what he had to see. I didn't recognize the name and I'm always looking for a good read.

But not right now, stuff to do still, and this thread exhausted me yesterday. I feel like if Gamevice wins they owe me a cut.

@rjejr Well, I messed up the tagging the first time, so if you read it in the email, that had to hurt! Oops!

Well, you could sue Gamevice for duress and undue loss of time as a result of their frivolous tort. You have at least as much grounds as their Switch suit!

This should be an easy case for Nintendo.

Hello Americans, you are not the center of the world. Please understand. Big headlines stating 'Federal government doing X' mean absolutely nothing outside of the US. Is it really so incomprehensibly hard to just write 'US government' instead?

@Yorumi Where would you draw the line of specificities?

I think in general, the line is draw more specifically than it should be, and often benefits patent thieves over patenters. You need a tremendous amount of capital to enforce your patent, let alone exploit your patent. Meanwhile, patent thieves can use throw around their economic weight. And the Patent licensing racket extort licenses to pay off debts, taking in all the actual benefits of defending patents.

All the while, small and mid-level innovation firms actually tell their employees not to read patented specs for legal protection (to prevent them from accidentally reusing an idea they read), which in turn stymies innovation and prevents thinkers and inventors from building upon the shoulders of giants to achieve even greater heights.

Now, I still hope Nintendo easily clears this case. This looks to me to be quite different from what Nintendo offers, and may well be a case of patent trolling. But patent trolling is a minor problem, if that – and companies as huge as Nintendo have the weight to swat a few flies.

Hm. An awful lot of frantic water-carrying for Nintendo in these comments. absent any patent information itself. I don't know the sequence of filing or the validity of the case more than anyone else here, but it certainly isn't unprecedented for a large company to pirate ideas from smaller ones, then crush them with their sheer weight. Just because you love them, doesn't make them innocent.

That said, I doubt more will come of this than a settlement to make it all go away.

Pokémon is satanic

@Mortenb
Most patents tend to be rather abstract though.

@Yorumi
Keep in mind that the "loser pays" basically entails that certain entities are unable to assert their own rights because they are unable to accept the insane financial risk of a serious lawsuit. I'd personally say, as someone who knows nothing about the law in his own country or anywhere else, that, as an outside observer, the high financial requirements of engaging in a lawsuit presents a danger to the ability of people and companies to defend their own rights, because it imposes a high barrier of entry that is simply insurmountable for many.

But, like I said, I know nothing about this stuff (like 99% of all the other people commenting here)

FAKE NEWS

I think Game Vice is being stupid and going after a console company, when their market targets mobile phones. This whole thing is absurd...

Y'know, other countries have federal governments too. Headline writing: It's a thing.

I think this is an attempt to get the Switch off the market so the Gamevice can replace it on the shelves. I hate Gamevice for this, and I want them to go after something else instead of Nintendo! They will have no chance against Nintendo. And, why are they suing for the same thing? Doesn't the US law state that if you dismiss or lose a case, you can't sue for that same reason again? This lawsuit makes no flippin sense.

Reasons why the Switch is different from the Gamevice:
1. Get it right: The Joy-con looks nothing like the Gamevice's detachable controllers!

2. The Switch has done better on the market than the Gamevice (I'm pretty sure you all know this).

3. It may look like a tablet, but no! The Switch is a HOME and HANDHELD console, not an accessory.

To conclude, Gamevice will just lose this case and they'll get nowhere trying to troll Nintendo. Amen to that. #Hopetofutureswitchowners #Gostrongnintendoswitch #Stopitgamevice

Stop Gamevice! Let's just watch Gamevice blow up while we watch them blow up with popcorn

And Gamevice is trying to push the Switch off the shelves and steal the Switch's position