Yesterday, U.S. president Donald Trump held a meeting with video game executives regarding the issue of violence in video games, an event which was triggered by a recent series of high school shootings in the country. Trump himself has stated the opinion that the shooting in Parkland, Florida could have potentially been motivated by video games - despite numerous historical studies which have found such games do not result in violence.
During the meeting - which included Robert Altman, CEO of Bethesda’s parent company ZeniMax, Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick, and Michael Gallagher, chief of the ESA - the White House showed a compilation of footage taken from popular franchises such as Call of Duty, Sniper Elite and Fallout. The footage was taken directly from YouTube, with many of the clips still bearing the watermarks of the channels that originally hosted them.
You can watch the video below. Be warned that it does contain some scenes of violence, and paradoxically, the White House has chosen not to restrict access with an age gate, or make any attempt to warn viewers of the content contained within (something the video game industry does do). Taken entirely out of the context, the footage is shocking - but it should be noted that all of the games shown in it are subject to self-imposed age ratings already.
"This is violent, isn’t it?" president Trump is reported to have said to the video game execs present.
Media Research Center President Brent Bozell said:
The president encouraged [game developers] to explore things they can do on their own to make things healthier in society, and that’s where it was left.
According to The Verge:
Attendees said there was little serious talk of government restrictions on content (which would present significant legal challenges), and the conversation focused on more robust age restrictions or voluntary measures that could be undertaken by the industry itself.
The ESA has issued a statement which says:
We discussed the numerous scientific studies establishing that there is no connection between video games and violence, First Amendment protection of video games, and how our industry’s rating system effectively helps parents make informed entertainment choices.
Not to be outdone, the White House released its own statement shortly afterwards:
The President acknowledged some studies have indicated there is a correlation between video game violence and real violence. The conversation centered on whether violent video games, including games that graphically simulate killing, desensitize our community to violence.
Bozell was interviewed by The Verge afterwards, and said:
I don’t think there should be any government control over it. But there is some programming that contains just absolute mind-boggling violence. We’ve all seen it. Is it appropriate in a civilized world to have that? Or could the industry listen to the better angels of their nature and say, we just don’t want to do it, on a voluntary basis?
This isn't a debate directly linked to Nintendo, and the vast majority of violent games appear on PS4, Xbox One and PC. However, Call of Duty titles have been available on past Nintendo consoles, and the Switch has its own selection of violent games - such as L.A. Noire, DOOM and Bayonetta 2. Therefore, these discussions could potentially have an impact on Nintendo as well as Sony, Microsoft and the many other publishers and developers operating within the games industry.
[source vg247.com]
Comments 357
Ugh. Video games are not the problem. Not in the slightest.
Been disproven a long time ago, just why.
Shouldn’t they do the same for movies? Or books? Heck what about music? If it’s too violent for you don’t play it.
@Winklebottom I'm also mixed but I doubt that Florida gunman was entirely influenced by video games.
I don't think new laws about games or guns is the answer. The ratings system that is already in place, when properly enforced, is sufficient to prevent minors from access to extreme violence without a parent/guardian's permission.
I agree those games are violent. And they have age ratings that are indicative of this. The truth is parents and retailers should be more vigilant that young kids don’t get these games. That also goes for film, tv, music and books.
But then you can argue that if a deranged person (who may or may have not been affected by violent entertainment) can’t get hold of guns and swords and explosives and body armour, it makes it a lot harder to go on a GTA style killing spree in the first place.
There's no correlation between video games and violence. It's just that some of these disturbed people happen to play video games and people have a tendency to want to blame or scapegoat something. And video games make an easy target because a lot of people don't get this hobby.
If there had really been such a meeting, I would consider it unnecessary, ridiculous, and possibly part of a ploy to distract other persons from problems related to the "president" mentioned in the article.
Is it the 90s again?
I don’t agree with this, but it may have been wise to just disable the comments for anything politically related. This could go down hill real fast
@Kalmaro Time to trot Tipper Gore out in front of Congress for round 2!
@Captain_Toad - Basic political grandstanding is why. Gotta keep whatever favor he has to maintain votes and approval ratings.
Nothing is going to come from it, just like the gun talks for the last 8-10 years.
You can't deny that what you are around affects you. As a whole, we are more violent than we were even 30 years ago. I remember when Mortal kombat first came out I saw some effects on kids.
It's not only games, look at TV, movies and music- so much hate and violence. No regard for the sanctity of life.
I'm not blaming the entertainment industry as a whole, but it doesn't help that so many kids are desensitized from violence and you can't blame the gun industry, it's a tool, it doesn't think for itself. There's a lot of blame to go around but different industries and schools of thought with the Outlook of life and respect.
In my own experience, video games provide an outlet for aggression rather than inspiring it, the sole thing connecting video games and shootings is that often the shooter played violent games before the incident, but in a country filled to the brim with violent movies, TV-shows and guns being a deeply-ingrained part of the culture, i doubt the one thing pushing somebody from "Nerd rage" to "Imma shoot some people!" would be a video game...
Forget the fact that people are getting shot in real life, let's talk about video games!
...ugh it's scary that these people have so much power
I'll admit that the age ratings system is kind of broken but do we really need it? It's up to the parents! As long as we don't get an equivalent to the Cinderella Law in the UK (or anywhere else) then I'll be fine.
One of, if not THE most corrupting environment on planet Earth gathers to discuss the corrupting potential of Fiction. Seems as legit as all such cases in the past.
I Really Really Really DAMN HATE Sadistic Shooting Games !
That's why i ALWAYS Condemn those games.
The root of ALL Evilness.
A kid has one heck of a time going into a store and buying cigarettes/alcohol. You need ID proving you are 18/21 plus. If we put that much emphasis on enforcing the ratings of games to make sure kids don’t play violent games, then that would solve this silly finger pointing at the video game industry.
And also, parents should be held accountable if their kids are in possession of mature games. If we are REALLY going to get serious about this mess, treat the ratings like cigarettes and alcohol.
@Captain_Toad
Only because he wants to "appear" to be doing something about it so his approval ratings don't drop below septic tank levels. It's all an act, and he won't do anything that would actually provide meaningful change.
What i see is disturbed individuals with access to weapons they should not have being able to carry out mass AND REPEATED executions that trained officers would have a hard time doing. Because they likely have done it before. Every night. In their gaming caves.
But it is a mistake to think removing those games eliminates the threat. Australia (and most of the first world) knows how to end this violence.
Mr. blame it all needs a crutch so that he feels like he’s doing something. I can’t belive everything that’s happening in my country. Disgusting doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Blind leading the bind...
@bluedogrulez
I really wish America would follow Australia's example, but unfortunately too many people are stuck in their ways here.
I've been stood in Game in the UK whilst some Mum looks down at her 10 year old kid with an 18 rated game in his hand and asks, are you sure this is the one you want? We shouldn't need government to tell us how to be better parents.
@Anti-Matter actually human stupidity is the root of all evil not shooters.
If a human is violent because of video game or movie than there is something wrong with him.
Games are not the problem. Bad parenting is the problem
It has been funny watching game journos who have spent the last five years or so constantly trashing games, gamers, and gaming culture suddenly run to its defense now that the Great Orange Pissant is suddenly acting like them.
This is, of course, a side-show to distract attention from the anger being directed at gun culture and his NRA Republican buddies right now. Nothing will come of it, and once moral panic over the latest mass shooting dies down, things will return to the status quo.
All too reminiscent to Mortal Kombat in the 90's... Meanwhile, Hollyweird pumps out violent action and horror films mostly on a monthly bases. But ooooh those video games are so much worse (sarcasm)...
The best statement was the ESA. Parents need to be better parents over their kids, especially if their child is easily influenced to actually want to do what they see. My parents knew I can discern reality and fantasy, so they never tried to take games away from me. 38 and still play games for the sake of challenge, never to actually be what I see...
@NewAdvent Yes because a blanket statement that people like myself are inherent monsters is a solution
Living in the UK, it confuses me how video games are apparently to blame rather than the fact you can pop into Wal-Mart for your weekly shop and buy bread, milk and a shotgun. The gun culture of the USA propagated by its government who need the NRA money is to blame, not video games.
so but video games are a global industry / hobby.... i wonder why mass shootings seem to be more of an epidemic in the united states than anywhere else ? ?
seems interesting.
Video games don't make me want to kill people in real life. Real life makes me want to kill people in video games.
Pretty sure this isn't what gamers wanted with the return of 90s nostalgia.
...why are they worried about virtual guns and not actual guns? Ok let me go get my "American citizen" paper bag and put it on my head like I'm a Jets fan.
@Ralizah
That really is the best part of this whole thing. Hypocrisy at its finest. Still, it annoys the hell out of me that in 2018 the easy thing for politicians to do when a scapegoat is needed is go right back to video game violence.
@Mainer82: "You can't deny that what you are around affects you. ... No regard for the sanctity of life."
@Everyone_Else: The fact is that, whether a person admit it, or not, whether a person acknowledges it, or not, all media we intake has some effect on us. It may be a slight effect, or more prominent.
And it's not just games. It's anything media we consume. That includes what we read, what we listen to, what we choose to fill our minds with, and dwell on it... So on, & so forth.
Also, many users just said it before I could, the other thing is bad parenting.
Great. Nintendo Life now has to report about this. I can tell there's going to be comments ranging from "Trump is dumb! Video Games don't cause violence!" to "Video Games desensitize kids!". Seriously....... While it's true that M games should not be played by children and can cause behavioral changes, video games are not the cause of shootings. And neither are guns. It's mental health that's truly the problem. People with a history of mental health should NOT be able to get a gun whatsoever. Also if you think a video game is making your child act out, take it away. I know everyone loves to blame the President or guns or NRA, but let me ask you this: do you blame cars for car crashes, terrorist attacks, or drunk drivers? Do you blame knives when someone gets stabbed?
@Gamer83 Said it before, I'll say it again: the late 2010's are the bizarro 90's. I guess that includes obnoxious scapegoating of the gaming community whenever someone decides to shoot up a school as well. Heck, we even almost had another Clinton presidency!
@Zuljaras
Human stupudity + R18 shooting games = Trigger of Real shooting.
If we completely ANNIHILATE All those damn games, i believe it will NOT Trigger what it called Sadistic attitudes.
I blamed Both gamers and developers who got involved in this situation.
Gamers SHOULDN'T Play that games, just stop it !
Stop liking sadistic shooting games !!
Developers also need to STOP indulgence those market by keep making that damn games, just Enough already !!
It's the virtual guns that need more regulation, not the real guns. Solid logic there.
@Senpai_Bruh
"While it's true that M games should not be played by children and can cause behavioral changes..."
This is not necessarily true in regards to such games.
@Mario500 So you've never seen a kid get upset losing in a video game or start acting meaner? I've seen it with friends and friends' kids. I'm not implying it's making them into killers, but I do think it can cause changes in behavior. Not always but sometimes. And why should a kid as young as ten be playing Mortal Kombat or COD?
@Anti-Matter this is idiotic and not funny at all.
There's something else. Game creators, here in the U.S.A, have their freedom of speech to make almost whatever game they want. So, do we take away their rights? No, we couldn't. However, whatever game they make has to be profitable, unless it is a personally financed project, and they don't care if it fails. Therefore, as many have said, they are meeting demand for such content. This is where the purchaser of said content comes into play. Don't want to support it? Don't buy it.
I will say though. I've seen and played M games that I think a young kid could play, but I would NEVER let a young kid play a game like the newest Mortal Kombat or COD or DOOM or Wolfenstein. Kids don't need such violence when they're young.
As an American I am completely embarrassed. We care more about media than we do actual corporate lobbyists swaying legislation.
@Anti-Matter No.
@Zuljaras
I'm sorry but i still concerned about nowadays situation.
So, i still defend the Right things to protect our young generations and other peoples.
By Banning & Eliminating those games, at least it will Save younger generations to NOT liking and get involved in that situation.
Call me whatever but i have to protect my students and other peoples to Not be the next victims.
@NewAdvent The US does have really bad mental health care, but our laws are definitely lax in many regards as there isn’t really much regulation a Federal level so people just cross state lines to get certain weapons and ammunition. For example my state sells armor piercing buckets while New York doesn’t.
@Senpai_Bruh
Yes, i agree.
That's very concerning situation in our life.
Just how horrific to see that situation with your naked eyes, those kids, playing, liking, that Damn games.
They Shouldn't like those games.
They should need help by Theraphy and Brainwash to be good people again.
@Anti-Matter Other countries have these games and don’t have these problems. The US literally has some states and municipalities where I can carry a rifle around and it’s totally a-ok. Structure is key.
@Ralizah We basically do have Clinton now with the adultery. Lol
@Senpai_Bruh
"So you've never seen a kid get upset losing in a video game or start acting meaner? I've seen it with friends and friends' kids. I'm not implying it's making them into killers, but I do think it can cause changes in behavior. Not always but sometimes."
I had seen persons (including whom you might call "kids") appearing upset after losing such games, but they really appeared to have had changes in their moods.
@nessisonett It’s embarrassing honestly. People talk down to these shooting survivors like they are idiots. I am disappointed in my country in terms of how we handle such tragedies.
@tamantayoshi The Florida shooter played DDR. Are we going to shut down DDR cabinets now?
National Redneck Association are a bunch of ideological terrorists that take money from Colt and other manufacturers.
Also... Let's not glance at the nerve ego Trump has and his laundry list of disrespect towards women. And since when did virtual guns become more of a threat than actual guns? Keep making America great by demonstrating to be a great disrespect towards everyone who doesn't agree with you. Anyone with knowledge can see what a Confederate Trump is about (illegal).
"Tiny children are not horses"
@Mario500 People I know act differently because the games they play. They'll get so upset about losing a game that they actually get depressed. I've even witness one of my friends throwing his controller against a wall. Now, it doesn't mean they're permanently mad, but that isn't the way you should react in a video game.
I live in the Uk & I can’t remember the last mass shooting.
We get the same games as the US.
I feel like video game violence isn’t the problem here... .
Jack Thompson, Anita Sarkeesian and now Donald Trump. It never ends, but it seems to go higher and higher up.
But no one actually addresses the issues of mental health and easy access to guns for self-destructive people. It's always Doom/Quake/Counter-Strike/whatever game is popular at the time.
@Senpai_Bruh Sounds like a general temper issue. Though video games can easily amplify frustration.
@Senpai_Bruh People react the same way during football games, and no one is blaming sports for youth violence.
@NIN10DOXD So the people who are law-abiding citizens and part of the NRA are to blame? And you're calling them terrorists? I guess the liquor companies and alcohol drinkers are terrorists too cause of drunk drivers, car crashes, or when a terrorist plows a crowd of people with a truck.
@Senpai_Bruh Breweries follow federal laws and warn against drunk driving. The NRA pays politicians to not even keep a proper digital database of registered firearms that is ridiculous.
@Anti-Matter Average gamers are now in their 30s according to some studies. Adults can consume adult media without problem as their personalities have already been molded by then. It's true kids shouldn't have access to GTA, although I did play the original when I was 10 or so.
Believe it or not most people have no problem telling fiction from real world.
Mental health is a non-specific blanket excuse. I know plenty of people, who have issues, who would never go kill crazy. Back in 2011, I remember an article about how psychologists were asking comic makers to stop using the excuse of mental illness as the reason behind many comic book villains' grotesque murderous natures. Mental health issues do not mean someone is incapable of proper firearm ownership, &/or use.
The main issue, is that, anyone with a strong enough desire to do something, will do that something.
For example: If someone wants to kill you, by walking up to you, on the street, quickly pinching your nose, and shoving a gigantic stick of butter down your throat to choke you, they could do that. Do we stop selling butter? Of course not.
The issue is evil in a person's heart. We are a society that does not teach that life is precious.
@WiiHawk I'm not blaming games at all. I will say someone did kill his friends because the Patriots lost. Now like I said, video games and sports are not the problem. People who are already violent are the ones that cause problems.
Despite having played Mario so many times, I've still never been conditioned to constantly eat magic mushrooms.
@NIN10DOXD It's true that they should, you're right, but just because there's laws, that doesn't stop drunk drivers or underage drinking or abusive people. And I don't think the NRA promotes killing.
@NIN10DOXD I have to agree about registering guns and gun owners; USA already does it with cars and cars aren't specifically build to kill people, but can easily kill a lot of them in a short time, as a few individuals have shown in Germany. If US registers cars, and drivers why not guns and gun owners?
Bear in mind that I am not American and I do not know specifics of gun laws in the US.
The problem is that the gun lobby seems to have more power than The White House itself.
That, and America seemed to vote in a ginger wiggy fart cloud for a president.
SJW's were already ruining video games, now the governments kick it up another notch. Nobody dare talk about the rampant mental health in society issues though...
@Senpai_Bruh I know that, but atleast we have fairly uniform guidelines in place for cars which are transportation. Guns are weapons first and have less regulation especially on a federal level than vehicles which is pretty backward regardless of political affiliation.
@Vriess That's what I think. Mental health is the problem, not guns, cars, movies, or video games.
@Iggy-Koopa That last part is becoming more and more debatable.
@SmaggTheSmug
I have some good students (both in behaviour and academic) that they had ever accidentally played those rated 18+ games. Well, i'm glad they don't play those games anymore after their parents banned those games and i also explained them to stay away from those games. Fortunately, they followed my advices and now they play games that appropriate for their age.
@SmaggTheSmug We keep all registration on paper due to a law supported by the NRA. Files get lost all the time.
@Vriess They just use it as an excuse though. They’ll will never fix mental health or healthcare in general.
@Kalmaro Poor Night Trap...
@WiiHawk
True... After Philadelphia Eagles won the Super Bowl the fans in Philly was rioting and flipping cars over; and nobody got arrested....
@NIN10DOXD Guns should definitely be regulated and I would even want the legal age to own one be raised to maybe 25. However, just because there's laws in place, it sadly doesn't mean it will stop all future shootings. The next thing they could do is illegalize guns, which I am STRONGLY against. Also mental health is not an excuse. It's what cause shootings like this. It's what causes someone want to harm or kill somebody. It also seems hypocritical to blame the NRA and guns but not video games.
People are called criminals because they don't follow laws. Gun laws won't stop criminals, but it can stop, or at least seriously hinder, or even underpower, the law-abiding.
Reasonable measures need to be taken, but not those that impact the law-abiding in any way that prevents ownership of any gun, or ammo clip/magazine size, etc.
@Capt_N I agree. Why punish law-abiding citizens? It should be criminals or anyone with a mental health problem.
@Senpai_Bruh
I think Movies with Heavy violence and guns are also the Blame for that circumstances.
People got motivated, inspired from those scenes, their brain arroused by something negative like that.
When something bad happen, they will react as Negative as they had ever seen or experienced, even in Brutal way.
Why did they do like that ? Because they had watched from Movies or something that motivated them to do just like they had experienced.
The problem is not Video games. The problem is the NRA who pay politicians to defend them and whose sole person is for people to buy guns. This equates to the easy and accessibility of guns in the United States. There are over 300,000,000 million guns.
"The AR-15 used to be illegal. President Bill Clinton’s assault weapons ban, which was in effect from 1994 to 2004, banned the AR-15 and other guns that were too similar to military-style weapons. However, this law did not prohibit Americans from owning semi-automatic weapons;1 it capped how many military features an individual gun could have. During the ban, a semi-automatic rifle like the AR-15 could legally have any one of the following features, as long as it didn’t have two or more of them: a folding stock (making the gun slightly easier to conceal), a pistol grip (making the weapon easier to hold and use), a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor (making it harder to see where shots are coming from), or a grenade launcher"(ESPN, 2016).
There is a correlation with the spike in mass shootings in the US and this ban.
The Mayo Clinic cannot even do research on the health effects of guns in the US. That is how bad this lobbying group has gotten.
As a teacher and a Florida resident, I am disgusted with arming teachers a guideline which was proposed by the NRA so people can buy more guns.
Video games are just a red herring in this debate. There are issues like mental health that should be a factor as well.
@River3636 I agree with you. I think there needs to be new regulation. Mental health, however, is more to blame than the NRA or video games. I don't know about the teachers having guns though. I would rather there be armed security with metal detectors to be honest.
The only issue with mature games is that parents buy them for their kids because it’s the cool thing to play. And those parents are really the ones to blame.
My 16 year old, when he was 8-13 or so, I would not let him play most PS3 games even though most of his friends not only played them, but had the system in their bedrooms. In my house, video games are a family thing. We mainly play in the living room or in the car. As my other 2 boys get older, the rules have not changed.
They only consoles any of my kids have in their room is when they bring their switches or 3ds’ with them.
Parents who use tv/games as a baby sitter, are the ones who have kids that learn life lessons form Grand theft auto. Parents have to take responsibility for how their kids are raised.
This a stupid scapegoat and an attempted quick fix to avoid the actual problem. Hopefully, as I like in UK, this won't affect me.
Shifting the blame much? The NRA has the entire Republican Party in its pocket, so they’re going to try to blame everything but the actual gun laws.
@SimplyCinnamon53 oh wow, now we're going in deep.
@Senpai_Bruh I agree mental health is an issue. Health coverage in the US is bad enough, but mental health is even worse. I know from personal experience. I’m just saying that politicians mention it, but don’t actually try to do anything. I also don’t want ban guns ESPECIALLY handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles. I however have no use for an assault rife and do not agree with the NRAs treaty of the Parkland survivors.
@Anti-Matter I feel like overly cutesy video games should be banned, because they may turn the human population into a bunch of wussies.
See how this can work both ways?
Any 1st year media studies student who knows about leap in media audience theories from the Frankfurt school of thought in the broadcast era, compared to now with the audience becoming creators and authors as well as consumers, would be able to destroy Trump’s views that video game violence has lasting negative effects resulting in mass shootings!
@Yorumi NRA spend in some of the highest volumes, especially in Senate and Presidential races.
@Fight_Teza_Fight
Excuse me ?!
This discussion might be what the "president" mentioned in the article wanted; a distraction from his own problems (along with the possibility of his being impeached; something I would strongly suggest).
@Anti-Matter Orher countries have violent media and don’t have mass shootings though.
@Senpai_Bruh: There are many influencing issues, but it boils down to whether a person wants to kill, or not.
@Everyone_Else: Another thing to point out: When liquor was prohibited here in America, more liquor was illegally produced, & more easily accessible, than prior to prohibition. I assure you, in a scenario where gun ownership is revoked, America would, make no mistake, end up in a civil war, & guns would be even more mass-produced, & available, all illegally.
Again reasonable measures need to be taken for all contributing factors, but most of the issues are not with guns. The issues are with people who decide to take life.
@Mario500
Right!.. Ever since he got elected he's been trying to keep his name clean. But his own mouth reveals how dirty he really is. Trump was quoted by saying, "I can do whatever I want.."
@Capt_N Australia didn’t have a civil war. I would argue consumables and weapons wouldn’t quite have the same issue with illegal manufacturing. Black market weapons are a thing, but they are usually produced legally and are extremely expensive in countries where they are rare or uncommon.
@Kwehst that’s because it’s illegal to do those things underage. Video game media is protected under freedom of speech, so it’s not illegal for a kid to watch a violent movie or play a violent video game. The media self regulates itself with ESR or movie ratings that way the government doesn’t try to step in and regulate for them.
Parents just need to be better educated about video game content, but since the ESRB is overseen by a bunch of video game companies I can’t see them double downing on restrictions as that would cut into their sales.
Of course none of that is associated with a terroritst going on a mass shooting.
This meeting was just political BS. Problem is video game companies must not be lobbying enough.
@Yorumi Amending other Amendments isn’t new and that figure of 20 million is definitely misleading. Many Republicans have lifetime donations upwards of 3 million in the senate.
@Senpai_Bruh I'm not sure what you are saying.
"The conversation centered on whether violent video games, including games that graphically simulate killing, desensitize our community to violence."
The answer, as proven time and again by research, is no. You know what actually desensitizes our communities to violence? Watching people being gunned down in real life time and time and again and knowing that not a damn thing will ever get done about it.
@Yorumi Also mass stabbing are definitely not as common as mass shootings in the US, but of course it’s all “the lying media.” Don’t go Alex Jones on me here.
@Fight_Teza_Fight Having lived in both countries, it's definitely not the games
@Senpai_Bruh The level of mentally unstable individuals in the US are on par with every modern western developed country. This data is common knowledge.
@Yorumi http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/11/counting-up-how-much-nra-spends/
@Anti-Matter There you go.
There’s nothing wrong with cutesy video games, just like there’s nothing wrong with M rated games.
This is very much an American problem. The rest of us are perfectly capable of not going on murderous rampages.
@Donutman eh. When I was Almost 16 I went out and bought Reisent Evil 4 with my mom’s permission. It was my first M game. Most teenagers are mature enough to handle violence. Can’t shelter them forever. At 16 adulthood is just around the corner.
@Yorumi: "free people who can defend themselves"
@NIN10DOXD: There are a lot of people here in the United States, sch as myself, who would (literally) fight to the death, for their firearms, and the ability to defend themselves. Not everybody feels that way, surely, but a lot do. I appreciate your insight, & civility with me, though. Thanks!
@Yorumi data please for. "No they actually don't. Political contributions are public record you can look this stuff up. It's a lie the media tells constantly and it's stuck. In the last election they spent around $20mil, compared to the unions that spend in the hundreds of millions. I thin one union spent around a quarter billion dollars in the election",
Yeah, of course mass shootings in schools are due to those diabolical ultra-violent video games, and not to the fact pretty much anyone in the U.S. can buy a firearm...duh 🤦🏼♂️
@Capt_N I literally defended certain guns such as pistols and hunting rifles or shotguns.
@Fight_Teza_Fight yeah you guys just get terrorist attacks and cars driven into crowds all the time.
@River3636 He’s definitely not seeing the bigger picture. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/11/counting-up-how-much-nra-spends/
@Yorumi blaming unions. really
There is so many other problems with the world today and this is what they want to dive into? Violence in video games that have been long existed in the 90s mixed in with gory movies till now? Y'know if the Florida shooting didn't happened on Valentine's Day and a few days later, they'll just go with their first guess and blame it on video games without any hesitation. Guns? Nah, Video Games!
One aspect that is rarely taken into account is the actual age range of the players.
I do not believe that violent or mature video games in themselves are a catalyst for a violent behaviour; rather, the impact is from how mature the individual is.
I'm a primary school teacher and I can tell you now that the overwhelming majority of boys that I work with (aged 7-11) play 18-rated video games. It is all they talk about when the opportunity arises, and they simulate the actions from the games in class and find violent behaviour funny.
The impact that these games have on children is quite devastating and has to be seen to be believed - but it is the parent's responsibility. If they can't be bothered to protect their child and instead let them get their own way, then why are the creators at fault?
The reason these games have PEGI ratings is because mature adults can distinguish fantasy from reality. Children are naive and are still developing their emotional awareness and sensitivity. Likewise, an individual (adult or not) with mental health problems would actively seek this type of video game, which is another form of pleasure.
I would also argue against the "violent games have always existed" notion, as tone and explicity change a great deal.
@River3636 IKR. I live in North Carolina where we aren’t allowed to have unions. I actually wish we did. Lol
@Anti-Matter
It is a fact that to become a murderer one either has to have that ability to passed on through genes or something so drastic in ones life, like sexual abuse. These incidents have nothing to do with video games. A gamer doesn't play some shooter and thinks "hang on, what would happen if I really did this in real life" and then does it.
It is also a fact that video games have age ratings. Violent games are not designed for children. If a child plays a violent game then the content isn't at fault, just bad parenting. Linking your students to 18+ games is nonsensical since they shouldn't be playing them in the first place.
It is also a fact that video games are just a modern means for entertainment, like music, TV, films, theatre, plays that have preceded them and have been around for centuries. Even Shakespeare, one of the greats, has violent mature themes in his plays. Should we ban Shakespeare because of this? There are different themes for different people for all ages in all of these.
Your constant rhetoric is really becoming tiresome now. And comparing violent games as toxic like cancer, as you've done in the past, is actually rude, insulting and very ignorant.
Hmm, a quick search shows that if you eliminate the bigger cities ( top 3 or even 4) out of the gun crime numbers in the usa, you'll get a very low gun crime usa all of a sudden. Also, those cities tend to be left wing run. Sorry.
Seems an urban problem more than a gun problem, from my outsiders seat at least.
Also, everything influences you. Games are insanely insignificant, as we all know, yet if you're 99.9 percent of the way to insanity any trigger will do.
The clever thing about this session trump did: it makes video game companies a social pillar in society, instead of fringe hobby facilitators, it takes the focus to rating systems and retail facility, it generates a social valid platform for consumers instead of gaming being a hobby for outcast type people.
Clever play, this.
@Yorumi Super PACs are corporate donations typically. The NRA is considered a non-profit even though they have business ventures. Also why do Unions spending money take away the fact that the NRA makes the tracking of registered weapons more difficult.
@erv Urban areas don’t have more crime because of political party. They have more crime due to denser population. Sorry to burst your partisan bubble.
@erv What about suicides and spousal abuse?
@NIN10DOXD good point.
@Emperor-Palpsy There is a lot of truth in that.
@River3636 I was agreeing with you. I still think that mental health is the main problem.
I'm confused did the Mafia of the 30's and 40's grow up playing video games?
I think the ESRB should do better at strictly following their own rules for rating games.
@erv Also, I see your profile says Netherlands. Have you been to the US and how much do you know of our political system and our party platforms? 🤔
@JaxxDuffer
I'm sorry, but i still have Rights to protect my nearby peoples, especially my students.
I still consider all those bad entertainments as something that Not supposed to be exist.
That's my Norm.
@JHDK Let's be honest those ratings might as well be removed with the amount of parents that buy their kids these games.
@Emperor-Palpsy this. Completely agree.
It's pretty obvious what's going on here in America. It's a simple case of the government folks looking for anything other than guns that they can blame for school shootings. Video games, mental health, etc.
@subpopz
But for me, even as a 33 years old Adult man, i REFUSE to get involved into those damn R18+ things.
There is NO Benefit at all.
Why should i feed my brain with such of those damned things ?
@Yorumi someone gets it!
@Senpai_Bruh "Mass shootings by people with serious mental illness represent less
than 1% of all yearly gun-related homicides. In contrast, deaths by
suicide using firearms account for the majority of yearly gun-related
deaths.
"The overall contribution of people with serious mental illness to violent
crimes is only about 3%. When these crimes are examined in detail,
an even smaller percentage of them are found to involve firearms"( American Psychiatric Association, 2016).
@Yorumi I never said these weren’t problems, but Politi-fact isn’t not Fox News in terms of lies. They have people from both sides who FACT CHECK.
Trump is stupid. Who knew.
@Senpai_Bruh He’s a truther. I wouldn’t say he gets the full picture.
@River3636 What's the rest of the percentage , then? I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious.
@Yorumi You talk a good talk, but you are not on the front line like I am, and you have no research based data to support your claim.
@NIN10DOXD Yeah, but he did make good points.
@coolaggro
Trump was also suggested to allow all teachers have guns to protect themself.
How stupid !
@River3636 I’m curious by front line. Do you work in Psychology or Law Enforcement?
I wish I had time to read all the comments, probably going to just repeat something that's probably already posted above BUT there are no credible studies linking violence and computer games. Just reports made by campaigners with no sound professional backing.
I was going to avoid this article altogether but I'll just throw this out there. It takes only few morons to ruin it for everyone else. This is true about everything.
@Yorumi No, of course not. The REAL problem is Trump, right? Shouldn't we blame everything on him even if it doesn't make sense to?
@NIN10DOXD it's not a partisan thing. It's just that gun and violence statistics get messed up.
Oh yes been to the states multiple times, worked in American companies too. Lots of direct American co-workers... Lots of American stuff in my life. Got family in the states.
Btw, just a question: why'd you think my remark was partisan in intent? Because it's supposed to show the contrast: the correlation between violence in games and real life is almost non existent, as is the one based on policy flavors influencing violence or even gun culture and violent crime.
I think this is one of the many clever things trump did. Many people seem to just hate on the guy though.
@NIN10DOXD Wait what? I know that mandatory dues were banned and NC has one of the lowest if not the lowest union membership but did HB 819 pass? (I stopped following NC politics after I moved)
@NIN10DOXD I'm an EBD teacher. I taught emotionally disturbed students. I also work an hour away from the shootings and this topic hits very home for me because my brother knew a teacher who died in Parkland, FL
@Yorumi I never said they were the only problem and CNN is actually the most reliable of the 3 Big Cable News Networks. Nobody’s moving goal posts here. Your just moving focus. Also part of these failures relate back to NRA backed legislation.
@erv But are we sure he’s being smart here. The guy can’t hardly speak full coherent sentences.
It's really quite tiring and pathetic that this topic is even given the attention and article space it is when the whole farce is sketching around the fact that the arms industry and NRA are responsible for making guns available to pretty much anyone in America. Australia has shown quite clearly that gun crime and school shootings can be eradicated pretty much over night through a gun ban. This is about money, corruption and back handers, pure and simple. The only way I can see this going away is if the entertainment industry was to get together and offer the powers that be more money and support than the arms industry does. Problem solved, not going to happen though is it. What would be refreshing would be for the U.S government to turn round and say "Look, we're really sorry, but we make far too much money from this industry. Unfortunately that means that some of you and your kids are going to have to die because of it." Followed by a classy Trump shrug.
@erv Talking about violence after a tragedy is apparently a bad thing nowadays. They hate Trump for the dumbest reasons. Any time I ask someone why do you hate him, they just spew out what the media says. No one I've talked to ever gave me constructive criticism.
@Anti-Matter Your whole argumentation would mean that People have been living much more peacefully in the past, since there was no such violence in media. This is evidently not true, people have been killing each other for as long as humanity exists. Looking back at what we know about our history, we are actually still living very peaceful in comparison.
Besides that, if people really were that easily influenced by media to that direction we would have way more problems, than we currently have. There are millions of people playing those games on a regular basis after all.
Also, I know several peaceful people, who play those kind of games. I dare say that I am as non violent of a person as you can get, I never in my life even just punched someone, not even for self defense when I had a reason for it. I chose to retreat instead.
And I am in fact someone who hast been playing all kinds of games since I was a child.
By the way, do you know something I actually feel offended by? People who talk down on others hobbies, claiming all kinds of stuff without any data to back it up, just because they personally "believe" in something. Even worse, if that person barely even tried the thing out, that he is criticising.
With this, they are not only talking down on the hobby itself, but also on the people who practice them, since that is a horrible thing to do, right?
@Ryu_Niiyama We are still right to work and teachers are underrepresented as I far as I have seen.
@River3636 that's a good question, male suicide rates in particular seem really high. It's a more intimate issue than violent crime stats though, so it would take more digging to make a sensible statement about it.
@River3636 I understand. I think you would know more than we do.
@NIN10DOXD Yeah I know but right to work doesn't mean that unions are banned. Just not mandatory. There are a few still there.
@Senpai_Bruh That doesn’t mean that there aren’t legitimate reasons to hate Trump. He is a proven liar even by politician standards and has no empathy for others. I don’t hate him for his politics. I hated him before he ever switched parties. He is one the most classless figures in the American public.
@LUIGITORNADO I like your definition of ‘all the time’. What does that make US mass shootings comparatively- a daily occurrence?
Not to get into religion/politics too much, but maybe it’s time to stop clinging to a rule written hundreds of years ago.
We always lived by adapt or perish. Arming the public in 2018 against the government does more harm then good, when all it takes is one push of a button to diffuse the situation in the governments favour... .
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I’m not American, so I don’t understand why the right to bear arms is so important.
@Ryu_Niiyama I think they are pretty much effectively banned in almost all cases.
@Senpai_Bruh yeah it makes sense and I think it's clever for the reasons I listed. Beats me, I guess.
Btw, quickest reply inbox lit up ever lol
@erv elaborate. please
This a ridiculous arguement. There has always been violence in the world before video games existed. There is still violence now for the same reasons. Of course the games, films and music have nothing to do with it. It’s sad that some people think otherwise. The real reasons / problems are being ignored.
@NIN10DOXD I never had anyone tell me legitimate reasons though. It's only ever "racist", "sexist", "xenophobic", or "homophobic".
@River3636 on which one? The reasons I thought it's clever? Or the male suicide rates which I just said seem high but tough to say anything sensible about?
@erv I wish people would look past these things and just try to have a real discussion.
@Senpai_Bruh Well he does have a documented history with women and minorities. His treatment of his ex-wives is well publicized and there was the issue with the Central Park 5 or the case in the 70s with black tenants in his apartments.
Suicide, what was your question?
@NIN10DOXD Hillary is a proven liar. I don't think Trump is the only one with a proven track record. I will say though, whether or not you agree with him, it is great that North Korea is in talks to de-nuclearize. And the economy has been doing great. That's pretty amazing.
As opposed to PG13 movies which are violent but acceptable?
If the emperor wants to bolster his army, having desensitized, trigger happy kids would be a good thing right?
WHERE’s THE NRA TO BACK THESE GUYS UP? They’re using firearms based on real life ones. I hate how Drumpf double speaks. They can take away our virtual guns, but the people who have real firearms are allowed to keep their tactical military style guns? Ridiculous!
@erv Suicides, When Americans think about deaths from guns, we tend to focus on homicides. But the problem of gun suicide is inescapable: More than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns die by suicide.
@River3636 well you've said what about spousal abuse and suicide rates. There's been a surge in suicide rates according to the numbers - my only remark about that is that it's tough to make a sensible statement about that without digging deep, as there must be lots of underlying issues and differences.
At least violent crime is violent by its nature as analysed after the fact, so to speak. Still, whether or not video games come into play affecting the suicide numbers? I doubt it, I'd assume it's much like the studies on violence itself.
@Senpai_Bruh This isn’t the first time with North Korea and it always falls through. Also the first year was under Obama’s financial rules not to mention that income disparity is at an all time high anyway. This is Trumps first fiscal year and with his tariffs and tax cuts with not enough budget cuts to compensate many experts are worried. I’m not saying he can’t do good, but it’s not necessarily Roosevelt levels of prosperity going on here. Also Trump had even more recorded lies on record than Clinton during the campaign.
@erv There is a stigma that runs deep in society with people who commit suicide. It is less talked about. The video games and violence issue is just a red herring like I said.
@River3636 ah, that's something. Compared to our rate there seems to be no difference ( here it's 0,8 person per 100k higher even) and we have no gun culture anywhere. Seems if you take away the tool you don't take away the problem I guess.
It's a worrying thing for a society for sure, of course. Again, I too doubt whether gaming has anything you do with that, the same as it does in violent crime. The higher stigma risks putting people that are in trouble in the dark.
@erv Exactly
@NIN10DOXD You do know that with Roosevelt is that people love him to death, but he knew of the Holocaust and did NOTHING. Just because someone does good, doesn't always mean they're always good, just like you said.
@erv I will say that part of the issue with suicide is the lack of options for people who need help. Even with good insurance that actually covers mental illness, We have a low number of facilities.
...Right, so I came into this article hoping that a civil discussion was going on, and that I could insert my two cents. Silly me.
@Senpai_Bruh He and Truman did help get Israel created due to the Holocaust which I don’t think fixes the issue (it was also poorly executed). Also Trump said he likes people eating yamakas to count his money so... Either way, I was referring to Roosevelt solely in terms of economics. Yes he failed to address racism despite being a friend of several Civil Rights leaders, but big picture he is still considered a top tier leader by historians on both ends of the political spectrum.
@Tyranexx It’s actually fairly civil for the internet. There’s disagreements, but not too many insults (at least that I saw).
@NIN10DOXD Thing is, the New Deal wasn't as good as most people think. Really, the war was what keep the economy good in WWII. The New Deal was not really what kept America going during that time.
@Yorumi I said they lie less than Fix News and MNBC. And yes the NRA does impact legislation, primarily on background checks and registration. SMH
@NIN10DOXD What does Fox or MSNBC lie about?
@Senpai_Bruh The New Deal has kept us out of soup lines though and was super effective up until the 1980s when some Roosevelt,Truman, and Eisenhower policies were gutted by Reagan:
@Yorumi @Senpai_Bruh http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/
In this comment section:
People who know nothing of guns except that "they look scary", nor understand that preventing legal ownership of them doesn't prevent obtaining one nor any violent crime at all (eg, Australia's homicide rate never decreased as a result of their buyback).
Most gun crime in the US is due to illegally obtained weapons, and there have been exponentially more lives saved by legal gun owners than lives taken: http://americangunfacts.com
As far as I know, there is no evidence that playing violent video games causes violent actions (it's probably more likely the other way around, if at all). But to say that video games should never be banned and that guns (which are also inanimate objects) should be is incredibly inconsistent and inane.
@Yorumi Can I vomit now or later. Why are you even defending them? The second amendment is here to stay in the US get a grip. This should not be a partisan issue. Are you a member of the NRA? There has not been a sensible legislation on gun safety in the US since 2004 and low and behold that is when Mass shootings skyrocketed.
@Yorumi @Senpai_Bruh http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/pants-fire/
@Yorumi https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_ECYMvjU52E
Everyone on this board knows what a head shot is. Ask yourself why you know that.
@Senpai_Bruh @Yorumi http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jan/29/punditfact-checks-cable-news-channels/
@NIN10DOXD: Fair enough. If this were IGN, for example, the comments would have devolved in seconds.
@Gauchorino The site uses stats from the Daily Mail and NRA. Are you kidding me? 😂
@NIN10DOXD It might benefit you to learn what "ad hominem", "appeal to authority", and "poisoning the well" mean.
@bluedogrulez I thought was all in the name.🤷🏻♂️
@Anti-Matter I just KNEW that you would be here championing this pathetic attempt to put blame on the games industry. Go back to bed, kid.
@Gauchorino I know what they mean because Info Wars fans love to use those terms.
@NIN10DOXD Listen, I didn't say the New Deal was a scam, but the war and funding for the war is mostly helped the economy. Also that website is totally cherry picking random statements. It's one thing to have someone say something that's wrong, but every quote that's false were at different times. You would have to watch daily Fox, CNN, or MSNBC, and do so much studying to figure if it's true or not. I also think a lot of polls are dumb. If someone hates a certain group or person, of course their polls are going to say "everyone hates them!". And I'm not going to listen to John Oliver, a late-night comedian.
@Senpai_Bruh That is a group of statements in their worst category. They have different tiers and it’s checked by groups on both sides of th aisle. It’s still more evidence than @Yorumi has for acting like a single news network is the anti-Christ.
@NIN10DOXD I concur.
@Fight_Teza_Fight It's a culture thing brought by revolution and romanticizing crime.
I believe in the 2nd Amendment, but I do think their needs to be tougher laws, or better enforcement of the ones we have. I also don't believe any citizen needs an arsenal of guns and military grade weapons at their disposal. I know a few gun nuts, and it kind of sickens me when they get into their gun-porn. You carry for your protection and that should be it.
I also think there needs to be better public awareness of people reporting on suspected future mass-murder shooters. Shortly after the recent Florida terrorist mass shooting a grandmother found a diary of her grandson with his plans to shoot up a school. She reported him, and the attack was adverted.
In the Florida case it does sound as though people reported the terrorist, but law enforcement dropped the ball in taking it seriously. That's unacceptable and their seems to be very little happening to those people who DID NOTHING.
I'm getting tired of our conservative politicians pointing their fingers at everything and everything except guns, making the same damn speeches every time one of these attacks are carried out. It's also ludicrous how much video games take the blame for it all over other media.
There needs to be action.
As for my comment about UK terrorist attack...I was only pointing out that the UK isn't sunshine and rainbows because it has tougher gun control laws. Your country has its problems too.
@Gauchorino Also I can tell you firsthand that the US is far less safe than the UK. I’ve spent time in both and even my hometown in North Carolina is far more dangerous than London from my experience. Also nobody ever said to outright ban guns.
@NIN10DOXD Alright. That makes sense.
As far as I can see, it's okay to get upset about something that the government has issues with something related to what people liked.
Some of the commentors here make good points about violent video games have nothing to do with school shootings or other serious tragedies. It has to do with mental health and how we think should fix the problem with it which the government is foolishly thinking the opposite. It's only human natural to think like that.
I don't want to be bashed for this, but I am in the side of those who think Trump is not thinking about the problem correctly along with other government higher ups. I don't wish to start an argument about politics because I don't pay attention to that stuff.
Haha. Hahahaha. That's rich. America, do something about your unhealthy fetish with guns, if you want to reduce violence in your society.
The whole world is laughing at you.
@EVIL-C Yeah. Laws regardless I do think we fetishize guns and it gets really creepy.
@EVIL-C you are right and it is sad.
@Gauchorino
That link is basically gun lobby propaganda. The data they’ve presented is all completely misinterpreted, intentionally misrepresented, outdated, and in many cases just factual incorrect. Just the first statistic alone claims guns are used 80x more to defend against crime than to commit them, which is completely false, the real number (by their own admission in their citations at the bottom) is between 3.4 and 5.7x, and even those figures are likely inflated.
The truth is guns ARE part of the issue, there is no reason a civilian needs military grade assault weapons. They have no use other than killing people, they are ineffective, impractical, and unsafe for self/home defense, and they are what has allowed these mass shooters to kill as many people as they have. To deny that easy access to military grade assault weapons are part of the issue is just insane.
Wow. This comment section never disappoints especially when @Anti-matter is involved.
The government should take all our freedom away. There were not video games in 1900 but there were wars and murders. We need to blame something. Let’s blame video games.
I’ve played a lot of mario games but I don’t go jumping on goombas or koopas. I’ve never eaten any magic mushrooms or fire flowers. I do try and collect coins tho
@Maxtremors I definitely don't think people should have millitary grade guns, but we can't just outright ban guns. I think we need to ban guns capable of mass killings. However, there's people who have guns to hunt and defend. What do you say those people?
@G_M
Excuse me ?!
Pathetic what ??
@Mainer82
Actually violent crimes and the murder rate are down drastically compared to 30 years ago. We’re seeing a higher incidence of mass shootings because of the availability of military grade assault weapons. Mass shootings have always existed in the US, but the number of victims used to be far less because the types of guns available weren’t designed to kill as many humans as quickly as possible.
@Yorumi Exactly. And mental health as well. Why doesn't ANYONE talk about those things? If the people at the school knew he was trouble, why didn't the police or FBI do ANYTHING? I guess the FBI is more concerned about the "Russian" collusion than protecting students.
Behind the scenes
“Fellas, I have to pretend that video games are THE problem and if I were a Democrat I would have to pretend that guns are THE problem.”
@Anti-Matter if you say video games are to blame then I would say stop playing the games you play. You keep going on about sexy hd six pack bodies or kids with manly bodies and how you adore them. Your also a primary school teacher. I’m worried
When you see sexy male with six pack bodies, what do you do outside of video games.
@Yorumi I completely agree with you.
@Yorumi The funny thing is no one is saying that. It just sounds like a crude talking point to blame first responders who are outgunned. The FBI is a bureaucratic establishment who employ over 30,000 people. There are no laws that would have stopped this gunman even if all the protocols were followed. Did the NRA kill those people? NO. Did the politicians that they grade and pay to implement gun policy and safety enable the killer? HELL yes, they did.
@Maxtremors Citing BBC News, Newsweek, and the Wall Street Journal is "gun lobby propaganda"?
You're omitting the fact that three different contrasting estimates were given for the first asterisk in that link. 1. The "80x more lives saved than taken" stat says for you to refer to the Kleck and Gertz stat referred to underneath the second asterisk. 2. The 1994 Clinton White House stat gave a more conservative "47x more lives saved than taken" number. 3. The Bureau of Justice statistic, applied with either the above Kleck or Clinton stat, gives the "5.7x or 3.4x" number for 2008.
Meaning, even if you only accept the most conservative estimate from above, it is an objective fact that legal gun owners save exponentially more lives than the crimes legal or illegal gun owners cause.
You are merely fear-mongering.
@Anti-Matter Many things in nature are violent and cruel, you can ban every game, every movie and every manga you want but you will never be able to fix nature because nature is much more powerful than you are, so banning violent games and movies will never solve this problem.
I also believe honestly that this kind of contents harm a lot more sensitive people that feel bad when they see it than people who get triggered to act violent. People who act violent have far deeper reasons to be like that than simple videogames or movie. You only need to make sure that those games and those movies don't end up in the wrong hands (and in my country you can see scenes like those in huge screens inside stores like Game Stop where many children usually go)... Anyway violent movies and violent games don't trigger anything, and there is so much violence in nature anyway that banning violent games would be completely useless
@Yorumi There is definitely more difference than just the color of the gun. And aim aside, you have more shots with a semi-automatic even your aim sucks. Also a musket is not as capable of mass killing as an AR-15. Stop kidding yourself.
@Gauchorino elaborate
@Gauchorino I definitely think other countries that don’t have the same exact issue we do are “fear mongering.”
@River3636 On what?
There is nothing wrong with debate, as long as the people debating do not sling mud at each other. We can all agree to disagree, as well as debate here without insulting others.
For those who don't know, I'm not a mod/admin. I'm just saying that civil discussions, and civil debates are a thing. We don't want the actual mods locking this subject matter, for getting too heated.
@Capt_N True. Where are the mods anyway?
I hope they make games more violent , and maybe parent can start being parents and monitoring what they buy there kids and let them have access to. Oh yea , trump is your presisdent ! #metoo
The condition of a people will not change until they change what is in their own selves.
@Mainer82 It's the parents job to tell those kids what they see ont he video game is not right, if you fail to do that, then you've failed your job as a parent.
@Yorumi Where? Also where do you get your news? Fox? Info Wars? Breitbart? Daily Caller?
@Gauchorino oh ,I got to go to my second job, on the stats.
just ban all the stupid roguelikes and ill be happy
@Yorumi Yes IN THEORY any gun can be used but in practice how likely is it that you could recreate Parkland with an 18th century musket? It’s simply common sense. Not all guns were created equal.
@River3636 I elaborated on some of them above. Which others did you need elaborated?
@Yorumi You brought up CNN first and stopped citing sources after I poked a hole in your donations argument.You have a victim complex and are flaming mad when everybody here is being calm and civilized. Your the one whose made assumptions on where I get news first. You are literally an angry person who likes to straw man people who aren’t carbon copies of themselves.
@Yorumi I never attacked you. This isn’t even the first article you’ve done this under. Everything vaguely political send you into a mode of “the mean old left are attacking me” even if the person is a moderate or on the right as well.
@Yorumi Literally in every news article. I didn’t say you did watch Fox News. I just You used them as an example when defending PolitiFact. You actually assumed I watched CNN and called them fake afterwards. I cite sources and you tell me they’re fake, but don’t ever cite yours and I’m sorry that you sound like a “truther” which isn’t solely a 9/11 thing btw. It’s that in a previous thread you bemoaned “liberals and SJWs” months ago and now here you are getting mad because I don’t support the NRA and assume I’m for banning guns. Every time you literally try to provoke me by doing this same tactic even if we don’t necessarily disagree.
@Yorumi You have a greater victim complex than Pure Flix.
Parenting's the issue, not video games. Hope we take the time to look at the mental health side of things in the US. If you have the urge to kill someone after playing a game with a gun, the game isn't the issue.
Was anyone else laughing during that whole violence clip? I would not have kept a straight face watching that in the White House lmao
Also something you all need to understand.... video game violence DOES effect a very small group of minds that are easily taken in, mixed with a negative environment or situation it absolutely can trigger killings to a degree....but in saying that then everything can have that effect from movies to books. The truth is anything can produce negative emotions so to scapegoat games means they need to look closer at the society they have created.
@Yorumi I didnt attack you and I did counter you argument. I’ve tried being nice but you are literally trying to provoke me. You are the one who lied. You literally implied I’m an idiot. You assume I don’t pay attention. I AGREED on law enforcement and YOU assumed I GOT MY NEWS somewhere FIRST literally. I’ve been on the site for a very long time and have gotten along pretty well so maybe you should stop slinging mud. You are using a defense mechanism called Projection right now and it is not healthy.
I'll regret this I'm sure, but I may as well jump in and get attacked as well. I served 8 years on active duty in the US Army. I spent a little over a year and a half in Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom during two separate combat deployments. I own several guns, including an AR-15 I built, and I have a concealed carry permit.
Now let's kill off some of the "lulz omg u are teh republican fox-loving warmonger" attacks before they happen: I got out of the Army because I would now consider myself a conscientious objector. I am no longer a registered republican (Libertarian, as if that somehow matters). I think we (USA) take far too many innocent lives, dating back to our country's inception, in the name of "patriotism". I think all news agencies are pretty much equally dirty - they all lie. I'm not an NRA member and will never support them, despite owning firearms and carrying daily.
So with all that said - It blows my mind that the people making gun control laws (Or talking about it, but never actually doing it) seem to understand so little about guns. While I do support stricter background checks, honestly, what is that going to do? It's not like guns are very difficult to come by. If someone is willing to shoot up a school filled with innocent children, do you really think obtaining a fire-arm illegally is going to be some sort of moral dilemma they are just unwilling to cross? Stealing a gun from a family member, buying one in a private trade, etc... Funny thing about people will to commit mass murder, is they typically don't mind break other trivial laws. Then again, marijuana is illegal, and that's nearly impossible to come by, so maybe tighter control would work.
On the topic of video games and violence, there have been more violent games & movies over the last 20 years, yet overall fatalities from gun related violence are down from then. It has gradually risen over the past few years, but it is still much lower than 20-40 years ago, and of course much much lower than mid 1900's. There are also more guns in America than ever before, but I'll save that argument for another day. My point is, it is quite clear that there is not a direct correlation between violent media and violent crime.
While I've not seen any studies on the topic, I would be interested in seeing if the mass shooting rate has risen. My gut feeling is that is has, but I do not attribute that to guns or violent media - I think it is entirely due to social media (And to a lesser extent, all media) and celebrity culture. Everyone knows about every major crime instantaneously, and it not only gets major news coverage for a week or two after it happens, it now gets regurgitated endlessly on social media and discussed to death (As I am doing now) in various other forms of online media. With our culture's current trajectory, I honestly believe violent crime will continue to drop gradually, while mass shootings continue to rise - even with stricter gun control laws. I think they only real long-term solution to this will be more mental health studies and programs. Gun control laws banning a specific type of firearm (Like an AR15) will be next to worthless whenever there are plenty of other semi-automatic weapons readily available. Even if you ban all semi-automatic weapons, which would never happen, pump action rifles and shotguns are still capable of firing very rapidly.
This is way too long already, so I'll end it now: Blaming a specific organization (The NRA) isn't the solution, despite me not supporting them. Banning / implementing tighter controls on a specific firearm isn't a great solution either. I support more thorough checks and screening on individuals before allowing them to own firearms, but let's not pretend that will fix the issue either. I think much more mental health research/studies are needed.
@roadrunner343 You shouldn’t regret posting. I think it’s well written and pretty fair. Thanks for being nice and calm about it.
The recent shootings involved the use of dangerous and powerful weapons such as AR-15s, which should not have been sold to such disturbed people in the first place, with many guns like this one able to be freely carried in public. But it's obviously the video games causing all this trouble, right?
Haha, those silly Americans doing silly American things. 😅 Hides Americaness
@1UP_MARIO
The things that i blame from video games & movies are rated 18+ Only.
I still Allowed Tame contents, maximum until rated Teen or PG for movies.
I set a parameter that i still allowed, that means even there are some violences, the intensity of them i evaluated first before i decide to allow or reject.
I'm not Blind to ban every single things.
I evaluate everything first.
About six pack guys, you said kids with six pack ??
Gosh.... have you ever knew about Chibi or Super Deformed style ?
My avatar are Chibi Boxers, my boxer creations that basically Grown Up males with six pack bodies and Chibi form. I drawn them so cute because Mjuscle Chibi are Very Rare to draw, not many peoples think about.
Outside videogames, my reaction when i see six pack guys (Real peoples and or drawn) was ...... you know.....crush feeling
Like i wish i can have body like that...
Because in reality, i was skinny.
180 cm high with 65 kg.
@NIN10DOXD Thanks! Re-reading it, it was a bit rambly =) But hey, I was typing off the top of my head, so I guess that's what I get. If I could add one more thing to my post, it would be to make it clear that this is not, should not, and cannot be an issue split by party lines. That's just so incredibly stupid. People on both sides like to demonize the other, and act as if there is no middle ground. I gave such a lengthy background on myself and my stance on gun laws mainly to show that - it's not just republicans/NRA supporters that own guns. And it's not just Democrats that want to keep them out of the wrong hands. We shouldn't have to pick a party to be able to discuss gun control. Okay, now I'm done. For real (doubtful) =)
@Deathwalka
I was! I was! Blood and gore in games are always so full of cheese it's hilarious.
Man, i've never wanted to press ignore on someone before in my life, But Anti- Matter really is painful to listen to, with his rants on what you should do and not do, without any evidence or looking at both sides, and hearing him forcing others to do what he thinks is right is rather sad.
@Yorumi Thanks, I appreciate it. I don't like to talk about it much, because as I mentioned - I would consider myself a conscientious objector now, bordering on pacifist (A near pacifist that often carries a concealed firearm? Blasphemy!). So while I, like you, have a tremendous amount of respect and support the individuals in the military that believe they are doing a great thing, I can no long support the offensive military as a whole that our government employs. I just felt the need to point out that I think it is still possible to support/respect the individual, but not the institution - which is something that is lost on some of my friends and family, as they get upset that I am not overly proud of my time in the military and do not view it as a good thing. I was raised in a very "patriotic" (In the American sense of we kill you and take your land, type of patriotic) republican home, so I guess it is hard for them to understand.
@NF6429
Well, don't get bored from people like me.
Not many people has very different ideas and point of view.
I'm kinda sassy yet care about something that has to be protected.
@roadrunner343
I'm glad you still have your Pacifist side.
I was sorry to hear your past as part of military.
Wait, you still carry firearm ?
@roadrunner343
On one hand, I do agree with you on the fact that getting a gun if you wanted one is probably stupendously easy (no matter which part of the world you live in), and that maybe stricter gun control in the US isn't going to change a whole lot about it. I also agree that, at this point in time, restricting certain types of firearms probably won't have a huge impact.
On the other hand, I just don't see a whole lot of reasons to defend the ability to own a firearm as a civilian in the first place. Whether this has any bearing on the amount of mass shootings does not even matter all that much to me. A firearm is a tool meant to threaten, harm or kill, and I don't think anyone who is not part of some form of law-enforcement should every carry or touch one.
I moved to a new place a couple of months ago, but before that I used to live in the middle of the orthodox jewish community in Antwerp. After the 2016 Brussels bombing attack they had soldiers patrol the streets day and night (and to this very day, they still do). It's all very silly, as there is no use in having those men standing there all day, but I think it was primarily meant to appease the local jews, who were already frightened by another incident in Brussels in 2014 when a jewish man was shot in a Museum during daylight. Either way, after a couple of weeks I started to feel very angry, because I had to watch very heavily armed soldiers walking down my street every day. The fact that I constantly had to see people carrying heavy firearms was something that made me quite emotional, as I strongly dislike the sight of them. I have absolutely no use to ever use, touch or see a firearm for myself. I can appreciate the engineering that goes into the design and manufacturing of a firearm, but I have a hard time whenever I see people use it.
I should also point out that I have NEVER in my entire life seen a civilian carry a firearm in my country, and I do intend to keep it that way. The only exception was when I was about 15 years old, I got the opportunity to spend about a 1,5 week in Houston when my dad was up there for about a year for his work. That was the first time I've actually seen a life firearm, and I remember seeing them available in stores. Thinking about it now, I can still feel myself getting a little emotional. I realise this may sound silly, but it's the honest truth.
When you have a view on firearms like that (and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people over here share the same view, though I can't confirm this), it's kind of hard to understand why owning a firearm is actually quite common in some states of the US. For example, you say you own a firearm and frequently carry one. I personally have a very hard time understanding why anyone would ever choose to do that. I'm not saying you're not allowed to, as the law clearly states you can and you have a license, I just mean to say that it's one of those topics where I have an immense amount of difficulty understanding the people on the other side of the argument.
By which I mean to say, it's always going to be a very hard discussion and people are going to have a hard time understanding each other because of the very NATURE of firearms. And I'm personally very happy that this is a discussion we don't really need to have over where I live. That's a least SOMETHING we don't need to talk about over here
@Anti-Matter you should run for government.
@TheGameSquid They are tools to kill, as you said. What reason is there for military or law enforcement to have firearms either, then? Especially if we could just ban them all and not have to worry about it? The reason they are still needed, is that to defend against someone with a firearm, you must have one yourself. I know I'm in the minority, where my past military experience has given me extensive firearm training and experience, but I trust myself, my judgment, and my skills over law enforcement any day. As for why I carry, I hope I am never put in a position where I need to draw my weapon. However, if was ever in a position to stop a horrible tragedy, and I chose not to or was not carrying that day, I'm not sure I would forgive myself. I don't want everyone to carry. I don't want to force our teachers to carry. However, for law abiding citizens, especially those with proper training, military, or law enforcement background, that want to carry, I absolutely believe we can and should carry. Thanks for the reasonable discussion!
@NIN10DOXD: They usually let the users comment, until things start to get out of hand, & they are made aware of the situation. Then usually, one shows up in the comments to remind everyone to keep it civil, or the discussion gets closed. In the past, comments got so heated on some topics, that NL decided to make certain future article on said topics only readable, w/out the ability to comment.
@1UP_MARIO
At the same time in Indonesia, there were some cases about Teacher got attacked by a high school student due to reminded by their teacher. (The student attacked the teacher because the teacher had warned those students to follow the rules during in the school)
One teacher died after got attacked on his head, not straightly died. He died after his brain was dead after Internal bleeding inside his brain.
This popcorn is so good. So much irony here with all the character attacks and emotional appeals against guns in the comment section of an article decrying character attacks and emotional appeals against video games.
@Anti-Matter I fear you've completely missed the point of my post.
@Anti-Matter jesus christ man, the person just said you should run for government and you bring up a teacher dying from internal bleeding from students attacking them. Calm Boi, Calm
@NF6429
That was a News in my country lately.
Actually two cases.
One case, the teacher died after being attacked by his student due the student not to listen the teacher's warning.
Another case, the teacher got injured after being attacked by his student due his student were keep playing his smartphone during lesson.
Kids nowadays in my country......
@roadrunner343: Don't regret it, I enjoyed reading your thoughts. By the way, thanks for serving! I salute you, sir!
@Gauchorino
So why run with the 80x in the graphic? It’s a clear, deliberate misrepresentation of the data. And I’m the one doing the fear mongering!
@roadrunner343
I don't I'll ever be able to understand that (which is perfectly fine btw), but I suppose I CAN respect that. By which I mean, I can respect your intentions.
@Anti-Matter: "Kids nowadays in my country...... "
@Anti-Matter did he attack his teacher because of games
@Senpai_Bruh
I have no problem with people owning hand guns, shotguns, and hunting rifles, assuming they own them legally. I would like to see more stringent background checks, to fix the NICS system, and I don’t know if I agree with the legality of concealing firearms (I think people should be able to carry them, just not concealed). I do think that that assault rifles, bump stocks, and any firearm or accessory that is capable of killing mass amounts of people in a short amount of time should be banned outright. I’d also like to see ammunition (including supplies to make your own ammunition)!require the same background checks as the guns themselves. Military grade weapons have no practical civilian application, they’re impractical and unsafe for home protection, they’re not good for hunting, they only thing they’re good for, and were designed for, is to kill humans quickly and efficiently.
@TheGameSquid Likewise - it's fine we don't agree, but I think it's important to at least try to understand the opposing position. Otherwise, we'll never get anywhere in the debate on gun control.
From my position, I grew up hunting, I have extensive firearm training from my military service, and two combat tours - why would I not want to utilize my skills to protect innocent lives if needed? The government, military, and law enforcement officers are just ordinary people too. As long as the same (or similar) checks are in place, I have no issues with civilians owning firearms. Again, I trust myself - both my skills and my mental state - over that of the military and LEO, so as long as it remains legal, I will continue to carry.
I believe @Yorumi also provided a very good explanation of the "protection from the government" argument. I purposefully stayed away from that topic, because I didn't think I could explain it very well. Also, with my recent changes in beliefs/morals, I would simply give up my firearms if forced by the government anyway. Or flee the country. There isn't really anything in life worth killing over in my belief, unless it is to save innocent lives - be that my own, my family, or total strangers when I am out and about.
@Yorumi
Yes, I’ve seen the effects of gun violence up close and personal. The difference between a handgun, shotgun, or rifle and an assault rifle is the an assault rifle is capable of discharging more rounds more quickly. In the case of this most recent shooting, Las Vegas, and Pulse, there wouldn’t have been such high body counts if they hadn’t used assault rifles.
yeah, im so sure the orange one has anything valuable to add to ANY conversation. hes better off in jail
Politicians have been blaming pop-culture for societal ills for centuries. Novels were considered morally corrosive in the 18th century.
@Maxtremors I agree.
I'm surprised they didn't show Mario, I mean he stomps on his enemies heads to kill them!
The most violent game for me is The Godfather on the Wii. Punching and strangling was so visceral feeling in that game. I would guess a violent VR game would be the next step up and blur the lines even more.
These violent gun games, much like violent movies can desensitize people to violence but there has to be actually something very wrong with the individual to go out and do it for real.
Yeah we have violent movies and games and TV shows and people kill each other with guns but you know what? Four hundred years ago people burned other people at the stake as witches so maybe humans are just d**ks.
That said it seems to be a US problem and not a global problem so we in the US need to get our collective s**t together.
@Anti-Matter I wish you would learn that you don't need to go on a crusade about every little thing you hate and that the language and rhetoric you use against M-rated games makes you look just as bad as the games themselves. There is nothing inherently wrong with Bayonetta or DOOM or even GTA. They are just games that appeal to some people, so those people play them. They don't appeal to you, so ignore them. What if I said I hated Portal Knights, DDR, and Sims, and everyone who played them was a crazed maniac, and those games should be banned? That would be ridiculous. There's no proof in my statement. I would sound like the crazed maniac. That's what you sound like when you go on bashing M rated games. Like a crazed maniac on a crusade with no proof and nothing to stand on.
@MoonKnight7
it's a huge "look over there" so gun control gets lost in the redirection.
also old people. it was movies, then comics, then music, then dungeons and dragons, now video games. no republican in this country (US) wants to go near our horrible healthcare system, our inability to help the poor (slash all safety nets), and the elephant in the room......... too easy access to guns. sure you can blow up an event but that's much much harder than just bringing a semi-auto rifle with extra mags with you and just gunning down everyone.
Smash Bros for Switch officially canceled.
Lel, this old argument. It's the 90s ask over again.
You know when was the last school shooting in my country? 1918. Yes, 1918. Yet violent video games are very popular here. On the other hand, we don't have such extremely lax gun laws as the USA. I wonder if there's any correlation.
@Anti-Matter I'm curious, what's your opinion on Breath of the Wild? Because I find myself being the cruelest in this game, much more than any bloody violent game.
Cya
Raziel-chan
@roadrunner343 I just wanted to say, I really appreciated your posts and have a tremendous amount of respect for you. It's so sad to me that the issues of U.S. foreign policy and the completely out of control military industrial complex are ignored by the vast majority of people. I don't see any anti war movement represented in popular or mainstream culture.
Governments always have been and always will be responsible for far more violence and death than individuals or groups acting on their own. The numbers aren't even close. War is a racket.
@Maxtremors How is factually responding to a fear-mongering claim also fear-mongering?
Again, you're misreading the statistical reference. The Kleck and Gretz estimate was the highest of those three, giving the "80x" number. Even if you choose not to accept that one due to ideological reasons or for any other reason, the lesser estimates they gave also give an exponentially high number of lives saved by guns vs. crime caused by them. This proves that you're fear-mongering, since your emotionally hysterical claims against gun ownership are contradicted by the facts.
Videogames are played globally. The only place who has highschool shootings are the USA (I'm afraid to say so). They should look to another place. Like how easy is to get a gun (legally) on the US. But is always better to deviate the public opinion eye on the most popular media form... Let's call it Games! It happened to comics and movies back in the days. The result was censorship and the result was a massive loss of a more rich enviroment where creativity could blossom. After those witchhunts the comics or movies created ran on a ten year period when all the production was unrelevant and stall, lame, not relevant to the test of time (except some smart minds that sneaked great artistic works). History tends to repeat or rhyme. That sounds like a dark ages off-beat rhyme. US cetizens, you should get that psycho clown out of that office!
my 2 cents: the big problem is horrible parenting. You take a bunch of kids from toxic home environments, put them together in toxic school environments, where they have no meaningful motivation or meaningful responsibilities, some of them are bound to snap...
@Maxtremors Also, there is no clear definition for the terms "assault rifle" or "mass shooting". Those are buzzwords, used to propel a narrative of fear into the uninformed.
By "assault rifle", you may be trying to say "semi-automatic weapon", which fires at the same rate as a handgun (ie, one bullet fired for each time the trigger is pulled; as opposed to an automatic weapon, which fires bullets for as long as you hold the trigger down). Automatic weapons were not used in any of these "mass shootings" you're referring to. Semi-automatics were, meaning the gunmen pulled the trigger each time a bullet came out of the gun.
"Mass shooting" is often a disingenuous term that has been used to make gun homicides sound far more numerous than they are. The term has very broadly been used to describe "any time a gun has been fired in a public area, even accidentally or for sport", such as the claim that "there have been over 18 mass shootings since the beginning of 2018", a claim of obfuscation in order to advance a particular goal, not to accurately report reality.
@Curlynob I've witnessed a store clerk explain to a mother that the game she was about to purchase for her 8-9 year old son included gruesome, explicit violence, including murdering prostitutes, and her response was, "oh well, whatever." as she paid for it and handed it to her kid.
I think the issues is a combination of a lot of whats already being said here. Video Game violence can, in my opinion, cause someone who already has mental issues, to act out and possible mimic what they have played. Do we remove, cut down on, all the violent video games and movies? No. However, to come at this with a 100% angle that video games does not cause violence is not being honest. In the same way you don't blame Video Games because a mentally disturbed person went on a violent shooting spree, you don't blame law abiding citizens who own firearms. Can we do more to make sure firearms don't end up in the wrong hands? Sure we can, but lets have the discussion rather than make a blanket statement about the NRA and gun owners. Leave room for a discussion and possible solutions. My opinion on the problem? It starts in the home. Fact check me if you'd like, but 26 of the 27 deadliest mass shootings in the US were done by someone who was fatherless. Why do we not talk about this? That number is staggering yet i really don't see any mention of it as it doesn't fit into the narrative that the NRA and guns are to blame. There will never be a solution if we can't discuss and come to a solution, rather than blame everyone but the shooter.
@tedko
"I've witnessed a store clerk explain to a mother that the game she was about to purchase for her 8-9 year old son included gruesome, explicit violence, including murdering prostitutes, and her response was, "oh well, whatever." as she paid for it and handed it to her kid."
Oh, gosh.... !!
What a [removed] !!
How could she did like that ?!
Mind your language - Octane
@Razzy
I think the Violence level was still Tolerable for Teenagers.
@1UP_MARIO
For one different case , Yes !
The student attacked the teacher because the teacher warned him to stop playing his handphone (was playing video game on his handphone) in the class, but the student ignored. Then the teacher tried to grab the handphone, but it made the student pissed off then the student attacked the teacher by throwed him with a Plastic Chair. Not just only that, in rage , he also throw his handphone toward his teacher's face, hitted the teacher's jaw. The teacher has been evacuated and got treatments at hospital (He still alive) and the student probably had to Drop Out from his school due to his behaviour. (He was a Junior High School student).
@TheLobster
" There is nothing inherently wrong with Bayonetta or DOOM or even GTA. "
I'm Against rated 18+ games as always because they are EVIL.
Pure Evil !
Just only listen their game SFX for several seconds, it drives me Extremely Mad.
I HATE Sounds of guns, people screaming by torturing, etc. Extremely Unacceptable.
Just Cursed to All peoples who made that damned games !
Why should i tolerate such a things like that ?!
How on Earth they create an Evilness like that ??
Why should they create a Toxin like that ??
For What ??
Something that i HATE to see for peoples enjoy rated 18+ games, why do peoples like to see EVILNESS, Act of Satan ?!
That's made me Really Angry.
@Mainer82
"it's a tool, it doesn't think for itself"
yeah and neither do bombs. but we regulate those and they aren't sold at your local mom & pop store. i wonder why?
I say stupid politicians are the cause of violence.
There was a mass shooting many years ago in Scotland, after that gun sales were banned. There’s been no more mass shooting since.
@Anti-Matter yea it’s nintendos fault. I heard that news. The boy was playing animal crossing pocket camp. I blame Nintendo
@1UP_MARIO
There was no proof he was playing that game (Animal.Crossing).
No trolling, please !
@Anti-Matter It's obvious you did not read my post to you. Sigh. Fine then.
"I'm Against rated 18+ games as always because they are EVIL.
Pure Evil !"
Well I'm against Portal Knight, DDR, and Sims because they are WUSSINESS! Pure Wussiness!
Do you see how you sound?
@TheLobster
Should rather blame the nonexistant social infrastructure in the US that would proactively seek out and help mentally ill people before they shoot [removed] up.
Mind your language - Octane
@Gauchorino
"Meaning, even if you only accept the most conservative estimate from above, it is an objective fact that legal gun owners save exponentially more lives than the crimes legal or illegal gun owners cause."
From what? Other people with guns?
@flizmo: "My opinion on the problem? It starts in the home."
@Anti-Matter why are you so angry. Anger is EVIL. I blame the video games you play. They must make you angry
@GraveLordXD Preach it
All these comments sort of make me want to un-ignore Anti-Matter again.
@Anti-Matter Ah, okay then.
goes back to hitting a bokoblin with a shock spear, electrocuting it, waiting for it to recover, to desperately try and fight back, only to be shocked again and again and again until it dies in horrible agony while screaming its lungs out
Yeah, seems fine to me.
Though, admittedly, feeding people legs first into a meat grinder in Manhunt 2 is almost as amusing.
Cya
Raziel-chan
@GraveLordXD
"CDC statistic show that 500,000-3 million people saved is staggering in comparison to the 14,000-33,000 killed by firearms, take away suicides and the number of deaths decrease from 33,000 to around 14,000.
And that is an unbiased source"
Again, saved from what? This could easily be cherry picked statistics that don't factor in the need for the 'saving' if widespread access to firearms wasn't a factor. Not to mention what they consider a life saved is when it hasn't been taken in the first place. Plus the fact that authorities would still have access to guns in serious circumstances like in other countries.
I wish we all lived in a utopian paradise where no one hurt each other. But in reality, I just wish it was harder for crazy/awful people to get guns. I don't have one....I work out for an hour each day, have locks on my doors and I have a cellphone for 911. If someone breaks into my house and shoves a gun in my face I'm SOL, regardless of whether there was a gun in my house. I'll be content to own all the digital guns I want on Halo or Enter the Gungeon. They're more fun and cheaper to boot.
@Captain_Toad They’re looking for a scape goat to avoid the main issue (aka gun control)
@Razzy
The difference is the Violence level.
Breath of the Wild still have Tolerable violence level.
That's why it rated CERO B / E10+ (Supposed to be Teen) / PEGI 12
Even when i played Portal Knights with job Ranger, i shooted all foes with Triple Arrow shots with my Titanium Bow until they down and disappeared into loots. I still allowed that "killing" because the violence level in Portal Knights & Breath of the Wild was still Acceptable for me and younger audiences.
@1UP_MARIO
Oh, gosh...
Sorry if was upset.
@TheLobster
" It's obvious you did not read my post to you. Sigh. Fine then.
"I'm Against rated 18+ games as always because they are EVIL.
Pure Evil !"
Well I'm against Portal Knight, DDR, and Sims because they are WUSSINESS! Pure Wussiness!
Do you see how you sound?"
Um... may i apologize ?
I felt bad after i replied you with Rage emoji.
@Yorumi "You make excuses for the FBI, why? Why is that an excuse? How about we fix that problem? No no one seems to care about that, as long as a fake russian investigation keeps going who cares how many people die. What about the ATF? They're failing too."
There are thousands upon thousands of people working at the FBI - anyone who thinks the (very real) Russian investigation is what prevented them from acting on the tips isn't actually thinking at all.
@GraveLordXD If gun-free zones are so dangerous, how do you explaint the fact that the violent crime and gun violence rates in the US are far, far higher than most of the rest of the developed world?
You act like only already violent third world nations are the only places where guns are strictly regulated - but, in reality, the US is actually quite unique in the developed world for how unregulated firearms are. Guns are pretty ubiquitous here, yet we're considerably less safe than countries where they're far more strictly regulated.
"CDC statistic show that 500,000-3 million people saved is staggering in comparison to the 14,000-33,000 killed by firearms, take away suicides and the number of deaths decrease from 33,000 to around 14,000."
Wowzers - this reflects really terribly on American culture. This should make anyone who's thinking of coming to the US run as fast as they can in the opposite direction.
So... You actually believe that there would be 500,000-3 million more people killed every year in the US if it weren't for guns? That'd be a breathtakingly high rate of violent crime that would eclipse that of every other nation on Earth, including wartorn third world countries.
You'd think that all the countries without easy access to guns for civilians would be a bloodbath, what with all those Americans having to defend themselves with guns - yet, somehow, they're actually far safer than we are.
The posts by gun fondlers in this thread are just embarrassing for their poor argumentation and even poorer understanding of statistics.
On a side note: I can only laugh at those who think their personal arsenal is going to protect them if the government goes rogue and decides to turn its missiles, fighter jets, drones, and tanks against the populace.
@Sondheimist
Um...
Something wrong about modern American culture and mindset.
The simple fact that all the gun defenders have to ignore is that all these other "issues" - violent media, mental illness, etc. - exist throughout the world. The one thing that makes the US unique amongst developed nations is its lax gun policies. Even places like Switzerland, where there are quite a lot of guns, have far stricter regulations regarding where and how guns can be carried.
There are also, not coincidentally, far fewer people being murdered in those countries - by guns or any other weapon.
So no, as hard as it may be for you to imagine living in a place where you can't carry your own personal arsenal with you everywhere you go, the fact of the matter is that you wouldn't be any less safe as a result. In fact, in almost any other developed nation, you'd be far less likely to become a victim of violent crime. It's always been astonishing to me how terrified some Americans are of the very thought of not being able to carry a deadly weapon with them everywhere - that doesn't reflect well on American culture at all.
Here's the thing: I don't support anything resembling a total gun ban. That genie is out of the bottle here in the US. Yet anyone who thinks that there isn't a problem with guns in this country is in denial.
Of course, I suppose I'm expecting too much by wanting something more incisive here than regurgitated, long-debunked NRA talking points.
And oh heavens... I just wasted thirty minutes on a Friday night responding to comments about guns on a video game website.
Le sigh.
[Hangs head and walks away from computer.]
@Anti-Matter HOW THE [removed] ARE YOU NOT BANNED YET?!
Not only that, but multiple studies have shown that violent video games do not cause violence in people. But you'd probably say that those studies are lying and the people who conducted them were under the influence of violent video games. I believe Columbine was the result of child abuse. But then you'd probably say that was a one-time thing.
You are literally impossible to argue with and get a good answer out of it.
Also, about what you replied to @Razzy. Even if there was no blood, what would you see if there WAS blood when you killed an enemy in Zelda? What would you see if there was no blood when you kill a Demon in Doom? Blood or not, violence in one game is more or less the same as the violence in another.
Mind your language - Octane
@Sgt-Jack-V
Eh... i'm not American.
I'm Indonesian.
I have No idea about American country.
Blame the parents that bought their kids M rated games, not the games themselves.
@Anti-Matter Amazing. That has nothing to do with what I just said.
Or maybe you said that because I predicted what you might reply?
@Sgt-Jack-V
Well, because you talked about one of American country.
@Anti-Matter Yes. And I'm sorry if my post came across to you as too harsh or trolling. I genuinely like you and your posts and like that you stand up for what you believe in - I just don't like that you try to force it on others.
Considering the NRA and the GOP have come out swinging with some rather ridiculous and disgusting rhetoric involving the Parkland shooting and the young people calling for discussion on gun control, it would be completely naive of anyone to suggest they aren't a part of the problem. They are. And this idea that because there's no easy solution, so we should just not even try is just asinine.
But I want to touch on something @Sondheimist said and that is our continuing denial that there is an actual problem. And that sounds rather silly considering all that's been said in the past few weeks (and after other previous tragedies). Make no mistake, the discussion on gaming and its causes on these things in.this context is nothing more than a distraction by that gasbag in the WH and his creature filled swamp of a staff. But in the context of our societal obsession with guns, video games and the media do play a part in it. Whether we all want to admit it or not, we have a very dangerous and disturbing fascination with firearms and firearm violence. In the television and movies we watch. In the books we read. In the video games we play. Whole toy and department store aisles dedicated to toy guns of all varieties.
I grew up in a neighborhood where gun violence was and still is prevalent. So it's shaped my view on guns. I personally don't want and will never have one in my home. WIth that being said, I also admit to being complicit in this problem. I'm guilty of consuming problematic movies, television and games that don't help in the matter
Long story short, It isn't just the lack of action on gun control or reform. It isn't just whatever part mental illness may play in it. A bigger discussion that needs to be had is why we, collectively, are so obsessed with guns
Here's the thing. If you are going to act like further enforcing a rating system is the answer then you are agreeing that violent video games influence kids to do violent things. You are supporting their foot in the door and they won't stay in the doorway.
@Ralizah
#42 Yup, we narrowly dodged a bullet. Clinton would have put the nails in America's coffin, which Obama built.
Boy, I sure am glad nobody here has any political power...
...I really need to find a replacement source to get Nintendo news...
@GraveLordXD
Bingo. Now that's thinking.
Shame nobody else here seems to agree...
I wonder what's going on at NL today!
sees political article
Don't wanna get too deep into politics but "Blame everything but guns"
Srsly. This is just the Reps desperately trying to find a way to escape the gun control laws most people (i.e all sensible Americans) want implemented in the country. Why? Two words, The NRA
It's quite obvious that Video games aren't at fault. Heck, if they are, go ban books, movies and anything civilisation uses.
Why I'm not surprised at this is surprising itself.
@JTMnM On point
@Old-Red Exactly. If you trust facts over feelings, this should give you peace rather than rage.
Inanimate objects (such as trucks, video games, and guns) don't have power in themselves. Actions do. Murder and crime is already subject to the law in any civilised state. In America, criminals and those medically judged to be mentally ill already cannot legally (note that word) obtain or use a firearm. This means that believing controlling non-criminals' access to guns to protect themselves and others is either an infantile (ie, extremely uninformed) or sadistic notion. And surely you don't believe that handing over guns to a "racist" police force is going to solve the issue of gun crime, right?
Are you implying that possessing a gun makes you violent (thereby making guns inherently violent) in an article about how violent video games don't make you violent? Think carefully about how ridiculously irrational that sounds.
@Gauchorino
Your conveniently ignoring the fact that a teenager can't walk into a school with a video game, point it a large number of people and instantly end their lives. It's not about who or what is responsible, it's about giving mentally unstable people the access to a tool that can easily kill large numbers of people in a short space of time.
Such BS since NRA paid Trump to support them and yet again the easiest target is video games
Hahahaha "lets see how stupid and uninformed we can look today"
Seriously look at historical evidence to see this is a worthless endeavour. Like others have said this is nothing more than a showmen placating to his stupid audience. Well done America good choice.
@sword_9mm
Ohhh I couldn't agree with you more. I generally avoid these political things on sites like this, but things have gotten so bad, I couldn't help myself on commenting. I'm with you 110% friend. We went through this in the 90s too when things like Doom and Mortal Kombat came out. It's just a blame game rather than actually going about real reform and change. Trump isn't going to do anything about it with the NRA in his back pocket. I'd even be willing to bet that the little meeting the NRA had with him said, "you should blame it on video games" and here we are. He just wants to play to his base and say, look I did something.
Even the Governor of Florida just signed a new law, some of it is good, like raising the age of people who can access guns, but some of it is stupid like arming teachers, which I think is just asking for trouble. Anyway, he's getting sued by the NRA as we speak. That right there is the real problem we face.
Those young kids in Florida speaking out, give me hope for the future, and with all due respect, when the older generations that are stuck in their ways pass away, we may finally be able to get some meaningful change. Until then, it will be like pushing a thousand pounds of idiot up a mountain.
@Anti-Matter I think your forgetting these games are rated for mature audiences so they are protecting the kids from these games. It's the parents who need to take some ownership now not the games makers. I am an adult I want to consume adult material. Simple as.
@Old-Red Your continued emotional hysteria still isn't an argument against the facts: that guns prevent more crime and save more lives than they take. Were American schools not "gun-free zones", teenagers with guns (or knives, or trucks, or fists, or bombs) would be far less likely to do harm to anyone, especially when the governmental law enforcement willfully choose to watch people die instead of saving them, such as in the recent Parkland Florida shooting (when they knew beforehand that the gunman was planning on doing this).
Blaming your personal favourite inanimate object of contempt will never stifle murder or crime, nor has it ever done so. On the contrary, it tends to feed them.
@GraveLordXD Ah here we go again. Didn't want a deep talk of politics in a Nintendo site but I started it. People don't need hunting guns to protect themselves. A pistol or something similar is enough of a weapon to protect yourself and your loved ones from.
Second. I'm not saying no to guns. I'm saying yes to Gun control. Big difference. For example if you're a sane person above the age of 21 and want a gun. Do a test, and if you pass you'll have it. Nothing more. Nothing less. If in case you have mental problems like the mass shooter and are below the age of 21 like the mass shooter, you don't get the gun. No more. No less.
Next, it's the fault of the shooter, the government, the gun provider and the sheriffs who were supposed to rush in and stop the killer. Now I already explained in the above paragraph why the law abiding citizens should not be affected by the laws and how. I'll explain breifly again, law abiding citizens above the age of 21 and with no mental problems can keep their guns, (preferably not Hunting weapons bc that's totally not what's needed but that's a different debate).
Now for the NRA. Why am I and the media blaming them? It's related to the government. Since the NRA funds the Reps, they're pressured to give in to what the NRA wants (as goes with every political sponsor), now the problem here is that the NRA doesn't want any gun control laws since it'll hurt gun sales (heck, they even started getting stuff done in Georgia and have started taking action because the government and the people are finally taking a sensible stance against gun violence). That's why the NRA is blamed. They don't want gun control laws since it'll hurt gun sales and the only way to prevent that is to sponsor and bend the Reps to their will.
I repeat. I'm not saying no to guns. I'm saying yes to gun control. More over, I think even you will agree that video games are not to be blamed for the government's shortcomings. You agree to that don't you?
@GraveLordXD
Where did I say they are forcing teachers to have guns?? I said two words “arming teachers.” I can take any two words of yours and twist them into anything I want too. Would you prefer me to say “allowing the arming of teachers if they so choose,” good lord this site sometimes, taking everything so literally all the time.
You can have your opinions, but I think it’s stupid and won’t do jack to solve the problem, no matter how law abiding they are, but I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with this.
@Gauchorino
You don't seem to understand the points I'm making. I can see that you're passionate about this subject though and we're clearly not going to solve this issue on a Nintendo website. I could try to explain my thinking in more detail, but I think it's better for us to agree to disagree. Thanks for offering your point of view.
@Old-Red The point you're trying to make is using paper-thin reasoning lifted up by fear-mongering. You're projecting your passion against guns onto me refuting your false claims with the facts.
Nevertheless, I dearly appreciate your civility in the manner you ended this discussion. Take care.
Trump is literally and unironically the best president of the United States since George Washington.
He's not saying that violent videogames are going to become illegal to own - he's merely pointing out the irrefutable truth that many "mature" games are ultra-violent and disturbing. You can't tell me that little kids aren't playing these games, either - many "parents" simply turn a blind eye.
And videogames do certainly affect mindset. When I was a little kid, my friends and I were obsessed with Final Fantasy 2 (US) and for a long while afterwards, we all wanted to craft swords from sticks, learn black and white magic, and do all sorts of goofy (albeit imaginative) things like that. I specifically went out of my way to "become a Paladin", to the extent that I went out of my way to not swear, step on any, or anything else that would "jeopardize my chances". Although this game arguably inspired me to do good things, it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the opposite could occur.
They're having a debate about video game violence but are happy to have guns everywhere and a nuclear arsenal trained on the rest of the world. Smoke and mirrors.
I can only speak for me and fam.. Duck Hunt, never gave us the sensation to shoot a duck, or anything for that matter and we only had it and Super Mario Bros. for the longest time.
I was very impressionable.I believe Castlevania was really neat growing up loved the Hallloween/classic monsters🎃. Nintendo is 👍
@Anti-Matter That's why there is a rating systems. If a 8 year old kid plays a mature rated game, the problem is NOT the game, the problem are the parents who allow this kid to play the game.
By your way of thinking, you should ban movies, TV shows, music, books, magazines, news programs, newspapers, just about every single form of media consumption.
It is completely unrealistic and a way of ignoring the real problem, which is, basically, BAD PARENTING.
@GraveLordXD Well for the first point, I'll give an example, when you cut vegetables, you use a knife, not a samurai sword. Why? Because the knife itself can do the job well. Plain and simple. Now to relate with guns, you don't need a rifle to protect yourself because a pistol can do the job well too. Not a matter of deaths, but a matter of "doing the job well". Why do people need a rifle instead of a pistol is something I'll never understand. But anyway, let people cut vegetables with a samurai sword, it's a free world anyway right?
Now for your second point. It's commendable to know that the NRA had a bright past. But their aim has changed drastically. It's gone from "disarm the population" to "arm the population with whichever gun needed". Quite the shift, and quite surprising honestly.
Thing is, I still stand by my point, "I'm not saying no to guns, I'm saying yes to gun control". I believe that people have the right to protect themselves, just that the government should apply laws to prevent minors and people with a history of mental problems getting their hands on them. Why? It sullies the reputation of other gun owners as you said. If you disagree with this, you're contradicting yourself. Don't you think gun control should be implemented? To protect the people? To protect the 2nd amendment as well? (Explanation of second question in case a misunderstand happens: The aforementioned parties wouldn't get their hands on a gun and gun violence would be drastically reduced, thus resulting in the people accepting guns in society because these shootings affect everyone). I don't know why you omitted looking at these other points I put up before, and therefore I will remind you of what my original message was.
@GraveLordXD Well you yourself said that a gun won't do anything but sit in it's place while people will do propaganda. Maybe that's why the govt wants to control people and not guns, once again, you're implying that I don't want guns allowed and I don't want the proper gun users to keep their guns. Gun control is important. If it's not implemented then careless people will start picking guns and kill innocent people, therefore badly affecting the proper gun users because the government will use their usual "all for one one for all" law and strike everyone.
I'm on your side surprisingly. I want guns allowed, but the difference between your and my side is that you don't want gun control while I do. The funny part about that? Both ways protect existing responsible gun owners. I'm not a fan of the government, but if done right, I'm sure gun control will not only prevent future shootings (irresponsible minors don't get guns), but it'll not further destroy the hard earned reputation of responsible gun owners (since the aforementioned parties won't get the gun and so such horrific incidents won't happen which ultimately means people won't immediately point fingers at the proper gun owners).
I want guns allowed. But I want gun control implemented (properly). Why should responsible gun owners be held responsible for what an irresponsible minor does with a hunting gun? Why not make gun laws that prevent such minors from getting their hands on a firearm without affecting the gun ownership of existing owners? People make it hard but it's not hard to solve at all. "Are you 21+ and don't have a history of mental problems?, Good! Here's your gun!". That's how it should be but this government loves making things impossible and a pain to solve. "So much winning" Mr President said. So much winning indeed.
@GraveLordXD True. Children should be taught that the government isn't everything. If there's one thing I liked about the survivors of the shooting, it is that they're trying to make themselves heard. That's something I liked. It gave me hope for the future generations. That they know that the government isn't perfect and that they will eventually have to take matters into their own hands.
For now, I'm trying to stay sane for the next 2 or 6 years (God knows how long he'll stay) by watching Colbert and Oliver and so far it's going good. Really hope we don't get another "storm" brewing...
Comics, Heavy Metal, DnD, Tv shows, Movies, rock n Roll, Disco, video games. What do they all have in common?
They are all scapegoats.
@GraveLordXD Well it's a start I guess. Can't expect people to immediately be positive at hearing the voice of survivors especial children. We're still a long way off the right track.
I agree. It's been wonderful engaging in a conversation with you. Very rarely does an internet debate or discussion end in peace instead of f bombs XD.
To those two points you laid out in the end. I whole heartedly agree. All we can do is hope that the government doesn't screw this up (Spoiler alert: They will screw this up) and hope that such horrific incidents never happen again.
Everything about this makes me ashamed to be American. America is not the shining city on the hill, the only thing we excel at is war and military spending. Oh, and obesity.
Age restrictions and ratings mean nothing these days, just look at all the playthroughs of 18 rated games none of which use the age verification system. also over christmas my 12 year old cousin was watching the yogscast live streams on twitch which quite regularly showed very shocking warhammer advertisements, again rated 18
Lets talk videogame violence when goverment is an absolute mess. "We cant work together, so we might as well shake up videogames."
seems like the (US) military was a big inspiration to the composer of this video. I wonder if the USA is still involved in those kind of things..
"..there is some programming that contains just absolute mind-boggling violence. We’ve all seen it. "
Garbage in, garbage out. Like I explained to my six year old who tapped on a YouTube video that he thought was SpongeBob and it turned out to be some kind of 'evil SpongeBob' the things we watch with our eyes and hear with our ears go into our body just like food does. If you eat rotten food it makes you feel awful and if you watch rotten shows it makes you feel awful.
Nothing is ever just a simple, one sentence problem or solution. The fact that there are people (mostly men) who make this kind of garbage is one part of it, the fact that the u.s. has turned into a massive social engineering experiment that separates children from their families at ever younger ages for longer and longer periods of time is another part of it. It is complex. To just dismiss out of hand the existence of and the effects of intensely graphic violent anything- music, movies, video games is pathologically shortsighted.
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