Random: Nintendo Lands Itself In Hot Water With Norway

Could someone from Europe please kindly explain what the heck that statue is about? `

As far as the article is concerned, it's not a bad idea to have a cancel order button.

No Way!

(Statue must be inspired by this:)

Digital products are exempt from the 14-day cooling off period you would normally get from online purchases of physical items however if the item has not been downloaded to your Switch or has not been released yet you should be able to cancel the order and get a refund. It's probably tricky to implement but heck, that's not really our issue.

@MoonKnight7 It's a giant, angry, naked baby, what's there to get?

@Spike6958

Seems like nit-picking to me. But I agree, an option to cancel a digital pre-order doesn't seem like it would be hard to implement.

Another disadvantage to buying digital games is you're exempt from "In the EU you have the right to return these purchases within 14 days for a full refund. You can do so for any reason – even if you simply changed your mind."

The 14-day "cooling off" period does not apply to all purchases. Some of the exemptions are:

...-online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it...

Not to mention you can't sell it or lend it to someone. Anyway, it's funny Norway quoting EU laws when they're not a member of the EU, theough thay are a member of the European Economic Area(EEA).

They will now start offering full refunds...payable in reindeer meat.

So you really need to censor Sinnataggen? It is up for anyone to view openly in the most famous park in Norway.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE It's 2018. I think you're beating a dead horse by this point.

@Hikingguy So, stop selling games in the entire European Union, you say. Good idea.

@motorhue I wonder if they would have done the same with Michelangelo’s statue of David.

Blargh. Stupid beurocrats. If I don’t like the terms I’ll simply not buy the game. The terms are stated beforehand. I am Nowegian and don’t need this stupid hand holding by the government. In fact it is making the population more and more into infants crying about everything that is not exactly as they want it all of the time.

@MoonKnight7 Yeah, so, this is a famous depiction of Norway's current king, dubbed "Royal Wiener on Display: the Early Years". As all Norwegians know, Asian tourists love to take pictures with His Royal Highness, because the Norwegian crown jewels bring eternal luck to all who photograph it.

Doesn't Sony have the same problems with their preorders? I dont recall seeing a cancel option and they even take your money as soon as you pre-order. (They do warn this beforehand)

These digital pre-order systems in general need to be far more consumer friendly.

TBH I don't get the point, at all, of "digital pre-orders" to begin with. The whole point of a pre-order was so that the manufactuerer had a good estimate as to how many units to produce and where to ship them to meet launch demand and keep some units on shelves, and for consumers to know they have a guaranteed reserved copy. It's a function of physical goods. Digital preorders don't reserve or set manufacturing expectations for anything. Pre-loading to skip download times is one thing, but then this complaint wouldn't apply since you're actually obtaining the product immediately. But digital pre-orders without being in a pre-load window makes little sense regardless of the ability to cancel.

I didn't even know you couldn't cancel eshop pre-orders. There's really no reason to pre-order more than a few hours in advance anyway.

@MoonKnight7 love how you Americans usually tend to lump us Europeans together, as if we were all an indistinguishable mass countries without their own history, languages, etc..
I mean, you should ask a Norwegian, right?
I don’t think anyone in Europe (excluding Norway) is more likely to know about it than an American is just because we’re closer to Norway. In fact @HerroThar, who replied to you, is in fact Norwegian.
It’s like asking a Dutch guy what the Pantheon in Rome is: he may know, but if he does it’s probably not because he’s European but due to his own knowledge.

Edit: also, thanks @HerroThar for explaining what the statue is. I didn’t know!

Edit of the edit: I feel so dumb lol
See comment #37 in relation to me taking obvious jokes seriously and getting laughed at by myself ahahahahahah

@Hikingguy Guess we know why you don't run a global company, then.

I am always in favor of a refund option. Not that I have ever used it but knowing it's available is always nice.

Of course you should be able to cancel a pre-order. Isn't that common sense?

@Hikingguy Why should Nintendo have different rules than every other company, both local and (those poor, poor) global companies? If Steam, Sony, Microsoft etc. can manage this (and the millions of other companies within the EU), why can’t Nintendo?

Not even Animal Crossing censors the nudes, and that's among the squeakiest clean franchises there is.

Art censorship? Really, Nintendo Life? That’s just wrong in my opinion, especially considering the rather bloody and uncensored Layers of Fear ad that was on this site before. Naked statues even appear uncensored in Animal Crossing (which was developed by Nintendo themselves and got a 3 and an Everyone age rating by PEGI and ESRB).

About the pre-order thing, I kind of understand why that is a problem since many current game platforms (including PlayStation 4, Xbox One and Steam) have that option.

@clvr Hehe, please don't take me too seriously! That could cost you your dignity and pride, I'm afraid.

@MoonKnight7 Doesn't need to mean anything, it's art

WELL! If you can't cancel it, it's effectively a pre-purchase.

The only time I have ever pre-ordered something digitally was when there was a discount. So in some ways, it makes no sense to do this.

Also, NIntendo could claim that in its system, you are not pre-buying but pre-loading since there is a download that occurs at the time of pre-purchase. That tells the system to automatically download the full game when it becomes available. So this situation is somewhat more complicated than what some make it out to be.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE "Anyway, it's funny Norway quoting EU laws when they're not a member of the EU, theough thay are a member of the European Economic Area(EEA)."

Not that funny - one of the requirements for EEA member states (to access to the free market) is that they fully comply with EU trade laws...so Norway trade practices = EU trade practices.

@HerroThar ahahahahahahah that’s fair man! So you were just kidding? ‘Cause I got the sense you might have been, but of course it’s hard to tell in written form

Edit: I only right now noticed you dubbed it “Royal Wiener On Display”; I feel soooooo dumb now 😂😂😂😂😂

I guess you being Norwegian automatically made you a reliable source and made me skim through what you said, taking for granted you’d have to be right ahahahahahah

You gave me a good laugh, have a nice day mate!

The complaint is fair, but at the same time people should have more self consciousness about the things they pre-order. If you pre-order something it should mean that you already know you really want it. If somebody pre-orders a game and then decides he does not want it anymore even before he has a chance to try it it's just his own fault. The e-shop don't have this function but if something like this happens it is not the e-shop but the customer the one to blame

@Sinton Sony has the same policies as Nintendo when it comes to digital products, both pre-orders and otherwise.

@clvr Haha, great! Thanks, you too!

@Fondue1 They're not disallowing refunds, they've always allowed refunds for preorders, I've had two myself. What Norway has issue with is them not offering you a refund right there on the eShop page. Currently you have to contact Nintendo support.

Makes perfect sense. Sounds like all they are doing is bringing digital pre orders in line with physical ones. If you can cancel a physical pre order you should be able to cancel a digital one.

@Hikingguy The amazing thing is there's not an actual difference at all between digital pre-order and buying when you go to download. I mean there's not even a convenience advantage. It's the exact same process, possibly with one ADDITIONAL button press. Spending the 20 seconds to checkout now, or next month when it releases doesn't matter at all (excluding, again, pre-load because internet speeds are an issue and you may want to get the game downloaded in advance....but then that's not a pre-order really if you're obtaining the product at time of purchase but can't use it yet.)

@chardir preloading is about the only advantage.. especially if your connection isn't great

the UK eshop has a link in the online eshop (at the co.uk site) with right to cancel that seems to lead to a wii-u page about the nintendo network that has rights to cancel within 14 days.

"RIGHT TO CANCEL (Digital content)

You have the right to cancel this contract within 14 days without giving any reason.
The cancellation period will expire after 14 days from the day of the conclusion of the contract."

you have to send in a form, and i have no idea what the pre-order limit is (i just went to a random game i didn't own and scrolled down to find it).

not sure if this is the same thing (i guess some preorders are longer than a 14 day period?)

@nuovian Not here in Europe they don’t.

I don't get it. If you want the option of canceling a pre-order.....just don't pre-order. I feel like each person who is buying digital games has two options when making a purchase. Pre-order and get the benefit of pre-downloading so that you can play almost instantly when it's released or wait until it's actually released so that you can read reviews or research into what the game is so that you can determine if it's worth buying or not.

In my opinion, having a "cancel pre-order" option sounds simple enough, and would be a good gesture from Nintendo; but it shouldn't be necessary. Plus, the second you pre-download, you own the game! It's just time locked! If you're pre-ordering and not pre-downloading then it destroys the point and you're dumb!

Love it if there was refunds here. Something like Steam or Xbox would be nice.

@PorllM Out of curiosity: Why did you cancel your pre-orders?

No cancel option? What the hell nintendo.

Who’s the naked kid? And why?

Digital pre-order is inherently stupid anyway.
The whole point about pre-order is to reserve a copy for yourself before the shop runs out of copies, which you don't need with digital content.

Buyers who use digital pre-order are stupid just as well. They trade their right to change their mind for the luxury of playing a game the second it gets officially released (as opposed to 5 hours later).

@Hikingguy I don’t need the government holding my hand either, and I am with you on the «why pre-order» - the only thing I ever pre-order is Nintendo’s core games (Zelda, Mario) and consoles, and only physical (out of fear of not getting them upon release). Why anyone would pre-order a digital game is beyond me (unless you need days to download the game and have to have it day one).

Having said that, once the rules are what they are, I as a consumer expect every company - especially the global corporations like Nintendo - to follow the rules. And these rules don’t apply only to video games, they apply to all goods ordered outside of physical stores.

@Hikingguy Cutting out all of Europe (as they are citing EU law) would cause something of a drop in revenue.

Pretty low move by Nintendo. I’m glad they were caught.

@Hikingguy

Stick to hiking. You have no idea how business works and what you’re complaining about is part & parcel of running a global company.

Limp Bizkit: "I'm 'a do things Norway! It's Norway! Norway, or the highway!" 🇳🇴😁

@Hikingguy When it comes to market share, Nintendo is not big in the UK (and this is a UK site). Otherwise, Nintendo does alright compared to Sony and Microsoft.

@clvr

I don't mean any disrespect, but you would know better than I would. Europe is close together, and even though there's different cultures, I just thought there might be a common knowledge as to what it is — since they're your neighbors. Much like NL posting the picture, obviously knows something about it that I don't. Don't take it the wrong way.

Obligatory
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2XtvKY0Wr6w

@noobish_hat even if Nintendo let you cancel the order and refund you, they won't give you back real money, they would just return your credit to your account, so it's not like you could use those money for something more important than other games anyway.
You also absolutely should not pre-order a game (expecially the digital version of a game that will always be available immediately when you want to purchase it) if you are not more than sure that you can afford to spend the money for it.

@Hikingguy I get that Nintendo is not being deceptive, but you can’t have one set of rules for the deceptive companies, and another one for the honest ones. Everyone is equal, and justice is blind.

@Hikingguy That's the part that never gets discussed....anywhere.... I was thinking about that the other day in the Labo thread with rjejr talking about the cost of toys today......the psychology angle. It's not just advertising anymore, there's an unholy union of advertising and armies of psychologists leveraging psychological warfare against the entire population. And it now is for everything from selling cardboard toys through selling laws and politicians....

@MoonKnight7 yeah sorry, I probably sounded more aggressive than I would’ve liked to. That said, I didn’t take any offence nor thought you meant to disrespect anybody, I just get a bit p****d off whenever I hear Americans talk about Europe as if it were all the same. I know it’s small compared to any other continent, but that’s exactly why it’s astonishing that it harbors so many different cultures. It’s probably hard for an American to understand it, as your country is made up of many different states that share the same language and culture, but people in Europe don’t really feel European, we mostly feel we belong to our country. That’s why, in my own personal experience, it’s mostly Americans who talk about Europe instead of the individual countries (“we’re going to Europe!” instead of “we’re going to Italy/France/Spain/etc.”).
So yeah, it’s kinda my thing, I apologize if I made you feel like you did something wrong.

Let's implement refunds into the eShop while we're at it! Please! Sick of this silly "all sales final" rule!

@Sinton Norway’s not a member of the EU. Continuing to say it is won’t make it true. And those other companies you mention have had plenty of problems with consumer rights and the laws of various countries over their respective existences, some of them extremely massive and much more damning than this is for Nintendo, so that’s a stupid fallacy for you to latch onto.

@clvr

No worries man, sorry to hit your annoyance button. I get it. I've visited Switzerland a few times on business, and I always found it amazing how it's such a crossroad for different countries and cultures. Probably cause it's small and in the middle of things. Just thought someone would know, but I still haven't gotten a real response lol. I guess I'll have to google it if I really want to know — not planning on visiting Norway anytime soon, as much as I'd like to go.

I liked the way sony did it before. You pre-order and could cancel any time until the games release without being charged. Why should we pay for something we haven't gotten yet. It's not like we're taking away someone else's chance to get the game. Greed.

Why would you pre order then cancel

@sandman89

I suppose it depends on when you preorder, and what kind of extra cash you have when that date gets closer. When I preorder, I stick with it, but things happen, so I can understand the complaint.

@MoonKnight7 As a Norwegian, I have no clue myself. i should look it up

What on Earth is there in Oslo that puts that sculpture in to some form of context??? Mind blown!

@Hikingguy Essentially we're at a permanent cold war with our "betters." And yet what you describe about the return braggarts and such is also true. Ultimately the problem is on both ends, and it's rooted in the fact that the systems and economic system itself were built during a time when basic morality was a standard part of most people's behavior as instilled by the society. Be it decried as "Christian ideals" or what not, the fact remains there was a basic code of conduct instilled in each individual (for the most part) from birth that was expected most would uniformly conform to when given the choice to do otherwise, and most did. Both in business, and as consumers. And the systems we have expect that to be the case. There is an honor system involved.

Since then we've descended very deep into the Eastern-style (specifically China and the 8th century Arab society) mercantilism system coupled with an erasure of that basic moral code of self restraint to be replaced with something more akin to the "Everything is permitted" part of the Assassin's Creed serie's code. It's now considered that "morality is just opinion" and from that position of moral relativity, any position or action can be justified so long as some loophole can make it legal, and worse, defended as the only ehtical/moral course of action to take because to not take it would be artificially limiting.

Of course that's a fun slippery slope. Once you get into everything being permissible so long as you can define it as you please, where does it end? A little twisting of perception here makes psy-ops against consumers ok, makes abusing return policies ok....but that's ok...it doesn't hurt anyone......but once the door is open perhaps hurting people can be ok too. After all, it nets the result you want, right? And since you have the power and position to act on it and they didn't, well it served them right, they should have tried harder to avoid their fate. It's their own fault, of course. Someone will surely see this is exaggeration but humans have a way of continuously escalating things to the ends of their limits.

Contrast to Japan....for all their flaws in their society and the problems and bad behavior it causes in cases, they still have an at times oppressive instilled moral code, and they follow it to a fault....and their society comes away far, far more rules based more times than not without the level of overt exploitation by all against all than western society. . Of course....that doesn't apply to how they treat westerners....we're fair game

I'm not one for doing preorders in general these days, digital preorders even less so. I think Norway's complaint is legit and can see where they're coming from.

@NEStalgia: I never really saw the point of preordering digitally, to be honest. The download time is still there, server lag (at the best) happens on when both preorders open and on the actual release date, and the game is still "locked" until the actual release date anyway.

I mean, geez, don't people have some patience? Call me crazy, but I typically don't have enough focus to play a new game right at midnight and can't enjoy it properly without a little sleep.

Pre-downloading makes sense for games with exclusive pre-release bonus content or when you get them in a sale for downloading them earlier.

@noobish_hat to tell the truth, in my opinion they shouldn't have given the option to pre-order a digital copy of a game in the first place. It feels like trying to take advantage of people who get caught by hype imho. And I agree that they have to follow the law of Europe when they sell things in Europe. But at the same time people should be responsible with their own money but often they are not.

This is why I don't buy games digitally, once you do you can't ask for a refund and they won't refund you for it cause it's tie to your console. Like I keep mentioning in the past, Nintendo really needs to implement an account system and had an option for you to ask for a refund if you're not totally satisfied with your purchase within a short time period.

@Hikingguy What Walton giveth, Bezos taketh away. With the rise of Amazon and now Walmart online, returns are now costly

The only place that I can see that kind of return making sense is Lowes/Home Depot....of course there even small hardware stores have always had generous return policies....you need all possible materials available for a project but may end up not needing them along the way. That's understandable for that kind of work and I've returned building supplies that I thought would be needed or needed to have on hand in case of disaster, but ended up not coming into play. That's a little different than consumer goods since you're dealing with more of the unknown.

Of course Walmart and Amazon and friends pay for that by effectively having taxpayer subsidized labor that couldn't even afford to eat on what they pay them.

@MoonKnight7 yeah, it’s actually kinda funny that no one has replied seriously yet ahahahah
On the subject of Switzerland, yeah, they’re weird ‘cause their such a busy crucible of differnt cultures. There are parts where people speak German, others French and others Italian. So yeah, it’s gotta be confusing for someone foreign to Europe ahahahah

@Hikingguy Yep, that’s totally right, although I’d argue that European countries have been at war with the whole world for a very long time; just look at all the expansionism towards Africa and America, and the fact that the population of the whole American continent (North + South) speak almost exclusively European languages.
To be fair nowadays we don’t have all the feuds and vendettas you may imagine: of course if you’ll ask anyone here in Italy how they feel about the French or the German, they’ll mumble something about the former being snobbish and not too fond of personal hygiene, and the latter being self-righteous krauts; but in the end, when you get to know them in real life you’re not going to really, actually hate them.
I went on Erasmus to Spain a couple of years ago and of course I met people from the world over, but I’ve never witnessed any example of real-life feud among theoretically-not-so-friendly-neighboring-countries. I have quite a few Spanish, French, German and Swiss friends actually.

So to answer your question I think most people actually don’t mind the EU because it’s simply not that intrusive: it’s not like over there, where your both a U.S.A and Michigan (or Minnesota, etc.) citizen that has to abide the laws of both entities; here you are citizen of Italy (or Spain or whatever) and have to abide only your individual state’s law. We’re not a federation or a confederation like you or Brazil or Russia, we’re more differnte individual countries that are regulated by an international board on some themes like economics, sustainability and the likes.
Makes sense? 😅

P.S.: by no means I am an expert in politics and such, so I’d be glad to be corrected by anyone savvier than me

What?!
You also can't return a regular eshop order (whereas Steam offers refunds for games you didn't like), so what's the difference?

They should change it completely so that you can return digital games (during a set amount of time and/or playtime) or just leave it as it is.

Because the reasons that apply to refunding a physical pre-order don't apply to digital pre-orders. There is no shortage of available units, so unlike a physical pre-order you'll never face the situation where your pre-order won't be shipped to you and you have to cancel it to get the game elsewhere.

Personally I'm all for adding this option. I remember back before steam added a refund policy there were certain games I would pass up, even on sale because I wasn't sure if id like them and I didn't want to be stuck with a game I didn't like with way of getting my money back. I think the consumer should be able to cancel his/her pre-order and it shouldn't be different simply because it's digital

Meanwhile..Xbox is getting a automatic refund system soon. Superior to Steam's system.
Means if you don't like the game, you get the money back instantly. No delays, or questions asked.

@clvr

I've never heard the term citizen of Michigan or another US state. One of the differences in the US most of the states have never been independent. They were colonies that formed the US when they gained their independence. The few that had indepedence havent had that in more than 150 years so any state nationalism has died. Americans view themselves as US citizens who reside in a state much like they reside in a city. So from that standpoint the US states are different in that they've never been viewed as seperate countries.

@BAN Living in Norway, I know that we’re not member of the European Union, thank you very much. I don’t know where I’ve stated that it is so (over and over) to make it seem like I want it to be true, but thanks anyway.

As I’m sure you’re aware, Norway (through the European Free Trade Association) is part of the European Economic Area (EEA), however. This means that people in Norway have the same consumer rights as members of the European Union and vice versa. That’s why, as stated in this very article, the Norwegian Consumer Council has asked Nintendo to explain the breach of a European Union Directive.

@Hikingguy yep, the sports comparison is appropriate! I’m a fan of Juventus, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be friends with people supporting Internazionale or Milan (the three most supported and winning football teams in Italy, of course they don’t get along well ahahahah); I guess something similar can be said about L.A. Lakers and Clippers: they’re rival team, but of course no one is so childish they can’t be friends with another person just because of the team they support.

About the states, well...I don’ know lol
Michigan just rolled of my tongue (thumbs?), while Minnesota probably occurred to me simply due to alliteration ahahahah

If you cannot cancel a pre-order, then it’s not a pre-order, but a pre-purchase and as such Nintendo is violating EU consumer laws!

Sony does allow you to cancel a pre-order, as long as you cancel it before the launchdate!
I have done this several times, where I canceled a PS4 pre-order on the last minute, when reviews started coming in and turned out to be very bad.

Now I don’t pre-order anymore, since a lot of the big publishers have instated review embargos where reviews are not allowed to go live until after the games offial release, just so people can’t cancel anymore when the game turns out to be garbage!

Steam allows you PLAY a game for up to two hours after purchase and still get a full refund if you do not like it. In my opinion, this should be standard practice across all platforms for digital purchases. Nintendo does so much right, but not allowing for refunds isn’t one of them. If all the home consoles adopted steam’s refund policy, I bet sales would go up with digital transactions instead of down because people would try out games they are on the fence about due to the fact that they can play it briefly, and then decide if they want to keep it. Kudos to Steam for having the balls to make digital purchasing consumer-friendly!

@cleveland124 thanks for pointing that out, as I feel I worded my comment a bit poorly.
But basically that is what I meant: from my understanding (which may of course be flawed), people libing in the U.S. recognize themselves as U.S. citizens rather than citizens of the individual countries, exactly for the reasons you explained.
Meanwhile, in Europe that wouldn’t be possible, as our countries have had such a long history before the EU was a thing that none of them could think of giving up on their individuality to become the European United Nations, while your colonies have existed more or less for as long as the greater federation has.
Again, feel free to correct me where I’m wrong

@XenoShaun @nuovian You can cancel your pre-orders on Xbox and PlayStation:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/4000642/microsoft-store-cancel-an-order
https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/playstation-store-information---pre-orders/how-do-i-cancel-a-pre-order-0/

@Agent721 low move? they are doing it the same as the other game companies and to undo it it is simple just call them within the 14 days.

"In Nintendo's defence, it has tried to be transparent by having a pop-up when you make a purchase telling you that you are, "accepting that the goods are being delivered past the legal retraction period.""

Terms and conditions don't supersede law.

@Hikingguy to be honest i think its just a goverment trying to enforce because they can but then again i wouldn't know also u forgot texas its a famous state as well.

I love Nintendo, but jeez, they're so anti-consumer! How hard is it to have a cancel option?

The ability to get a refund after somethung 60 minutes of gameplay should be implemented. Would slow all this shovelware getting released.

ONE reason I don't like to Pre order Digital games. I like option of being able to change my mind. Maybe a game gets announced I would rather have. I can cancel that Amazon order I made.

@Sinton lolol for real? Your first two comments are essentially just you saying that Norway is in the EU, all the other companies follow the rules in the EU, Nintendo doesn’t follow the rules in the EU. Funny that you’re denying that now that your assertions have been questioned, when what you said is still visible in this thread for everyone to read.

And Norway being a member of a trade compact with EU countries doesn’t entitle them to enforcing EU regulations for the entirety of the EU. Basically what they’re taking issue with is Nintendo allegedly violating bylaws, without providing any evidence that their supposed infringing practices have actually victimized anyone or were done maliciously/with knowledge of the violation. They’re saying “your site doesn’t have a refund option, and that could possibly hurt some consumers, so change it.” That’s not the same as saying “you’re actively screwing over consumers and need to be punished.” So, good luck on having this result in anything other than a slap on the wrist for Nintendo (in a country where they do next to nothing in sales and probably don’t ever think about), if anything.

@BAN You’re still not getting it. Simply put: What applies to the European Union, also applies to Norway, and vice versa.

@MoonKnight7 Okay, for anyone still interested, it's a sculpture in the Vigeland Park. It's a huge park in Oslo with LOTS of bizarre sculptures of naked men, women and children made by sculptor Gustav Vigeland around 1930s.

Gotta see it if you visit Oslo. It's amazing, funny, creepy and awesome at the same time.

@Hikingguy yeah of course they’re the most famous ones because of TV, movies and stuff, though the majority of the people I know has at least heard the name of a good amount of states, including lesser known ones like Idaho, Maine or Arkansas. Then again, we (the majority of the people I know) probably don’t have a clue of what you can find in those states or how the climates is in these lesser known states, but the names are pretty well known.

@Hikingguy "Not like the game won't be available for years and years after release." Ironic, isn't it?

People pay 55/60 euros for a AAA, pay more over-time for the DLC, probably end up paying 100 if not more, and others pay a 5er for it on a Steam sale a few years down the line, and yet if everyone were to wait for such sales, the industry would collapse and cease to exist.

Might be time for just that, I'd say.

@Hikingguy Well, at this rate we'll be seeing hybrids all over the place considering how the Switch is doing. I doubt Sony/MS won't react to it.

Home-console days are numbered so it seems. A shame really.

@Octane That's good to know. I haven't noticed anything (note not really looked) the few times I did pre-order. But it is great news you can.

@Mortenb it isn't that bad but Wario apparently needs his preorder money. I wish Phoenix wright would cover stuff besides murder; that's why I liked devil's attorney even if plot base was only story, but fun to defend bootlegging tapes. I do think a good sign of a company is the refund policy.

@BenAV It becomes a problem if something comes up that may change your mind, like it is revealed that the game will be running at 30FPS rather than 60 or does not have split screen and you had no idea before the preorder. One should always have the option to cancel/refund a preorder.

Or better yet, just don't preorder, ever.

Funny - why would anyone want to pre-order on those conditions?

I generally tend to buy physical-only games (if possible) and tend to pre-order. I dont have to pay money in advance to my online retailer and have cancelled preorders a couple of times already once the metacritic score was revealed (smash tennis for example). The fact that physical games are cheaper is mind-bogling on its own.

@Hikingguy Well, look around at sites like these, around the internet, hell even Nintendo's commercials and what they say, and what kind of image does that sketch for you? I'm very much in your boat in terms of Switch use, but it hasn't passed me by how people are all over it for portability's sake, or because of convenience, which is both modes, but the main reason is still portability, as since without that they wouldn't care overall.

@pinta_vodki

Well thank you for the reply, you're the first and only one to give me a real response, haha. Sounds like an bizarre yet interesting place for sure.

@Hikingguy ah I see, it’s a nice coincidence 😁
Woah, -17 C is bad, and I thought it was cold in here! 😅
Right now wher I live we’re floating between -3 during the night and +8 during the day, but next week the real cold is gonna kick in, throwing the temperature down to -10 or so. Yeah I guess I’ll spare some beer money and stay home playing Zelda at night ahahahahah

Thank god! Every company should refund your money. There is no harm in that. One time I bought on my PS3 a PSP game by accident. I should have been able to get a refund.

@Hikingguy
I don't think not selling games in the entire EU necessarily qualifies as a good idea.

Anyway, this should obviously be enforced. I don't understand why anyone would preorder on the eShop (it's essentially a triple-whammy of gaming sins: pre-ordering, doing it digitially, and on a shop that charges more than physical copies). That doesn't mean I don't think their consumer rights (which our European government thankfully tries to defend every once and a while) shouldn't be protected.

Those digital pre-orders don't make sense anyway, since the price is the same. Why not a discount, you greedy, greedy Nintendo?!

@NEStalgia I understand what you’re saying but from a company perspective, they get a lot of ‘impulse/hype’ related buys before the game is released, so makes perfect sense .... for the company =P but yes it’s not needed from a consumer perspective.

Sounds good to me.

@Sinton No, I’m definitely getting it. Clearly you’re the one who’s lost. You’re just making vague blanket statements that are only partly true at best, and your comparison of Nintendo’s “failure” in this area to other companies shows that you aren’t actually informed on the issue, since Norway have said that Sony and Microsoft’s stores are also lacking in their efforts to conform to this one specific consumer bylaw.

But who cares anyway? The point you’re missing is that whether or not Norway thinks they have the authority to enforce laws for the entirety of the EU, they’re not even accusing Nintendo of actually breaking any of those laws. They’re literally just asking them to explain why their digital store format, which is basically functionally identical in every single region, isn’t tailored to a particular consumer protection measure (which I doubt anyone has ever actually used or needed) in that country, and to correct the issue.

And they’re not just doing it to Nintendo, they’re doing it to all kinds of different companies, and the lack of citing specific consumer grievances caused by these infractions means they’re probably doing it preemptively, probably because they’re bored and have nothing else to do. Reindeer herding can only fill so much of your time, right? I kid, I kid.

@BAN Something tells me you haven’t read the press release of the Norwegian Consumer Council or read any of the interviews in Norwegian media about the case. By all means, keep it up. Lolz lolz for real and all that.

@Sinton @BAN just to end this for both of you, Nintendo isn't breaking any laws because they are not doing preorder's they are in fact doing preloads and since they immediately get the product started to download it means they already have the product and the 14 day preorder policy for preorder's do not apply.

@edgedino That’s what Nintendo is arguing, but the Norwegian Consumer Council already knew that before they started this process. We’ll see how it all turns out. I’m sure Nintendo will change its policy before any formal/official steps are taken, and I don’t really see whay Nintendo has to lose on doing so.

To be honest, I don’t really care one way or another, I just want the discussion to be based on facts, not assumptions.

@Hikingguy I ran across this article and immediately thought of the conversation we were having here:
https://om.co/2018/02/20/the-1-reason-facebook-wont-ever-change/

I've always know this sort of thing about Facebook so there's nothing surprising here, but it's a beautiful highlight of exactly how deeply into psychological warfare the public is against companies....is losing very, very badly in the war.....and is thus far unaware a war even exists.

@Sinton I did read it. Something tells me you are a lot of paint chips as a kid.

@Sinton well good luck cause it looks like you got stuck with BAN. I also don't think Nintendo has to really change anything either.

@BAN If you did read it, then why are you saying that the Norwegian Consumer Council is not accusing Nintendo of actually breaking any of those laws? Here’s a quote from the press release (which, as you then surely know, is titled «Nintendo breaking the law»): «Out of the seven platforms, Nintendo in particular violates consumer rights by not offering any way to cancel a pre-ordered game.»

You are right that Norway don’t enforce the law for the entire EU. But if the Norwegian Consumer Council decides to take this further, this is how it will probably go down: The Norwegian Consumer council asks the EFTA Court for an advisory opinion on the matter. The EFTA Court will then ask the Court of Justice of the European Union for their interpretation of the EU Consumer Rights Directive. If the Court of Justice of the European Union says that what Nintendo is doing is not in accordance with the directive, then it’s up to each and every nation within the European Economic Area to take action (if they want) against Nintendo. But if the Court of Justice of the European Union says that Nintendo is breaking the EU Consumer Rights Directive, Nintendo is clearly not going to wait for every single one of the 30 countries within the European Economic Area to take action - that’s just bad publicity, especially since Steam, Sony, Microsoft etc. - in regards to this particular question - is not breaking the Directive.

And by the way: When you’re trying to insult someone's intelligence (I assume you meant that I «ate» a lot of paint chips, not «are»), avoid typos.

Why is Norway complaining on behalf of EU? They aren't even members...

@ogo79 WTH?