The announcement of Metroid Prime 4 was one of the most surprising reveals at E3, and though the game is nothing more than a logo at the moment, it’s still exciting that Nintendo is choosing to continue one of its most critically acclaimed series. The Metroid Prime trilogy was a major moment in Nintendo history, as a relatively mature series being developed by an outside studio.
Jack Mathews is a developer who worked at Retro as the Technical Lead Engineer for all three of the games, and Shinesparkers recently got ahold of him for an interview about the development of the trilogy. Interestingly enough, he mentioned how Metroid Prime 2: Echoes was originally supposed to be a multiplayer title, with a single player focus being decided on relatively late in production. Here’s what was said:
Well, I just feel that the game should have been either one or the other. Metroid Prime Hunters did this really well – it knew it was a multiplayer game and spent all its marbles there. When we started development on Prime 2, multiplayer was actually going to be the focus (I think we internally thought of the project as Metroid Prime 1.5). We were even going to have the ability to play as a Space Pirate and have things like wall grabs and such.
As we moved back towards a primarily single-player focus, we should have ditched multiplayer altogether. There was a ton of effort put forth to make multiplayer happen: we had to actually author third person Samus animations, we had to have support for multiple “players” in a game world, we needed to author all new lower quality effects, add game modes, et cetera et cetera. It’s all work that took quality and mindshare away from the single player.
Plus, as a Metroid fan, I just feel like single-player is how the IP should stay – seeing multiple people run around as Samus never felt right.
Metroid Prime 2 was also supposed to have more visually distinct light and dark worlds, but the time and budget ended up hamstringing development. Here’s what he said:
As for improvements? It’s hard because development is so iterative – many good things are built on the backs of failures. And many failures are the result of unmovable limitations. Like, for instance, I would have loved more differentiation between the light and dark worlds of Prime 2, but there was not time or money for it. We wanted to go the route of reusing environments between light and dark, because we could make a schedule work that way – we thought it would be great! More bang for the buck!
But of course, we could never find a technical solution to make the dark world variants different enough to be interesting, and it turns out that completely dark worlds are just not fun – the first concepts had Samus pretty much walking around with a spotlight emitting from her, and it was just impossible to play.
So, the artists had to do a ton of work to make the dark world variants work and, well, it was a ton more work than anyone had budgeted for and was completely unplanned. In fact, the Sanctuary Fortress was the only area built with this plan in mind, which is why both light and dark actually look visually distinct and amazing. But there was no time (immovable limitation) to really rebuild the rest of the game, but at least we got the Sanctuary Fortress. So what’s the solution? Plan better? Have less content? Be smarter? It’s hard to know, with the info we would have had then, what we reasonably could have done differently.
Another fascinating tidbit was that Metroid Prime 3: Corruption was supposed to be oriented around Samus actually being a bounty hunter, with the player picking up jobs and flying all over the galaxy. Nintendo ended up shooting down the idea because they had a different definition of what a bounty hunter does. Here’s what he said:
I don’t recall any code being written to support the concept, but I remember it being documented and thought through extensively. The inventory system as it was would not have needed significant changes to support the design, and while my recollection is hazy, I believe that the whole misunderstanding of the “bounty” in “bounty hunter” was discovered and talked through pretty quickly after we presented the game concept to Japan. I don’t know how much of the story was fleshed out at this point, Dark Samus or otherwise. I just remember that the original core concept revolved around Samus and her ship doing jobs around the galaxy to both get stronger.
What do you think? Which game from the original trilogy was your favorite? What do you hope Metroid Prime 4 will be like? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
[source shinesparkers.net]
Comments (85)
Always sad when stuff gets cut. The things the mentioned sounded pretty interesting.
I really appreciated these inside insights, especially since i replayed the Prime trilogy just a couple months ago in preparation for Samus Returns. Retro really did a beautiful job with those three games.
I trust Nintendo knows what they’re doing and will leave Prime 4 in capable hands, but the idea of a 3D Metroid being done by someone other than Retro gives me an uneasy feeling...
So what does Nintendo think a bounty hunter is?
Oh Retro, what are you doing! Please Nintendo, release us from our pain!
@Radbot42 Maybe they view bounty hunting as a form of contracting?
She's essentially a government contractor but goes off to do her own thing occasionally. If had to guess she's also less restricted by the law so maybe a futuristic corsair of some sort.
@thesilverbrick That feeling is exactly how some felt in 2001 when Nintendo announced that the next Metroid game was going to be an FPS developed by a rookie studio in Texas.
I'm not saying the feeling is unwarranted, but the last time this happened, it played out well.
I love Metroid prime 2.
A multiplayer only game in 2004 with no online? Good thing they went ahead with a full sequel instead. I enjoyed the multiplayer mode however.
I wish those ideas made it...they sound pretty awesome, actually.
The more I think about it, Samus does come off as more of a mercenary at times. I wonder if that's the where the confusion was.
I like the whole trilogy. Although I wouldn't miss Echoes multiplayer, especially if it meant more polish.
very insightful and amusing. it does not surprise me that Nintendo were caught up in how bounty-hunter sounds as opposed to what it is
@Knuckles
The last time this happened, it played out terribly.
@Knuckles
It worked with Prime, it worked pretty well with SR.
Not at all for Other M and Fed Force, though.
We're at about 50/50, then.
The biggest feature cut was the game being played in 3rd person. Retro Studios couldn't handle it back then and it seems the team making MP4 can't handle it either or it possibly wasn't considered. Something is lost by playing the game in first person the majority of the time, morph ball doesn't count. Imagine if we had to play Zelda or Mario in first person. My ideal Metroid game would be played in a mix from 1st and 3rd person perspective. Samus isn't classic Samus otherwise, could be why I prefer the 2D games.
Bought the trilogy on Wii U and only played the first one. The Prime series just didn't grab me as the classics did. Not a fan of FPS Samus. Still...excited to see what MP4 looks like.
I hope with Prime 4 Metroid becomes less of an odd fit for Nintendo as it has seemed in recent years. Hopefully one day it’s as natural a franchise as Zelda is to them.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE no
Metroid Prime will always be my favorite Metroid game, but I wish Metroid 2 was a little less stingy with its save rooms, didn't lock the player in rooms with Shadow Pirates.
Prime 1 is better than Prime 2 which is better than Prime 3. Prime 3 is an abomination of Metroid and gives the impression it was made by Halo fans rather than Metroid fans. Let's hope Prime 4 doesn't continue the pattern.
@Radbot42 https://kerrycooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Bounty-chocolateBar-coconut.jpg some who hunts for wild bounty.
"Multiple Samuses (Samii?) not feeling right"
There are quite a lot multiilayer ganes where there is one "hero" and a horde of "monsters", complete with systems to balance any number of players and give everybody a chance to be the hero. Would make a nice and hectic MP experience.
On the idea of seeing more than one person running around as Samus not feeling right, for a multiplay mode the could simply introduce other bounty hunters or characters with similar characteristics to Samus. I am not the most familiar with Metroid lore, but I mean, Samus cannot be the only one with a suit like that. Even if she was the only one, they could simply say these other characters were deliberately trying to copy her.
So, in the next game we'll be hinting coconut flavoured chocolate bars? Right, Nintendo? 😉
@okeribok ok, we had the same thought... 😀
Anyways... In the end they made Federation Force as a multiplayer "Metroid" game. No multiple Samus running around. Let's hope we'll get a true single player experience. Maybe with some online arenas...
It's always interesting to me when a game comes out great and you hear about problems during development that you would never assume happened based on the final product. I never would've predicted any of this. Some games you can tell had ton of problems working on it, this isn't really one, even with how multiplayer turned out.
The first in the trilogy is an outstanding piece of game design from start to finish but you really have to play the Gamecube version, the Wii controls spoil the experience. The other 2 games are both very good if not a match for the original but it sounds like both needed more time and perhaps less interference. It's a shame Retro aren't involved in 4 as they have such a great track record.
Hopefully they're busy finishing Raven Blade 😉
The Prime games are sooo good, especially the first one.
Giving me goosebumps just thinking about it.
I would love to see these on Switch.
I love the thought that Nintendo has no idea what a bounty hunter is and idk why. And as mentioned, this greatly clears up Captain Falcon for me, I always found that confusing!
@Heavyarms55
Samus CAN be the only one with a suit like that, actually.
That said, what you described is very similar to Prime Hunters on the DS.
Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are both great games in my opinion, I really dunno why 2 usually gets so much hate.
3 though, I didn't like. I think it was more of shooter and less of a Metroid with how there is far less exploration and more shooting, and random NPCs everywhere really took away from the feeling of being alone in a foreign place.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I completely disagree. The immersion first felt went playing in first person with the in-helmet heads up display and condensation from Samus’ breath was pretty special back in the cube days. Changing to third person for morph ball was a nice change of pace that was IMO perfectly changed up and balanced the gameplay also adding to the real sense of exploration.
@Radbot42 a hunter for bounty
I loved the first person perspective of Prime, the immersion in the world and the atmosphere - and also the way it built the tension and wonder of being in those spaces. It made the shooting aspect feel great and really dynamic.
That said, I do think a mix of 1st and 3rd would be best - there are times when you do want to pull back and see more of what's immediately around you. It would also make the platforming elements way more fun.
And I love the idea of exploring the galaxy as a bounty hunter - piloting her ship and moving between worlds sounds awesome!
Regarding Retro not making Prime 4 - Am I wrong in thinking that Nintendo's statement just said it was 'a new team' working on it? If that's true then it doesn't mean it's not Retro.
So that´s why I didn´t quite enjoy Metroid Prime 2...
Both Echoes and Corruption are highly recommend games, but it is only Prime which is a truly essential and a masterpiece.
I hope MP4 is 2D, but chances are it will be FPS. I think I tried Prime for like 5 minutes and dropped it. 3D was ugly AF back then, and I felt it killed the atmosphere that the 2D games were known for.
I have prime 2 and hunters yet I’ve never tried the multiplayer. Just doesn’t interest me that’s not metroid
@Prizm 😳ugly!? Go try again!
Stuff getting cut is an unavoidable fact of game development.
It is so much easier to get an idea and partially develop it than it is to program it properly, implement it with everything else, and then test and balance it.
Cut content isn't just a sign of mismanagement, narrow budgets or tight deadlines either. It is part of healthy development where only the best and most important and functional ideas make in in to the final product. Editing is a big part of any medium.
@Pod Totally agree with your comments about editing. However, overreach is a genuine issue - and that's a lot down to testing, management and experience.
I know from painful experience how easy it is to get half way into big project and realise you've stretched too far and won't be able to finish it to the standard you want. At that point you can work as hard as your mind and body will allow but you know it won't be enough.
All power to the people making these games - making stuff from scratch involves some pretty painful learning curves and you usually don't realise you're on one until it's too late.
That said, these mistakes are often the pre-cursor to your most focused work - just look at the Wii U + Switch.
I'm super intrigued about the new Prime - as I said, new team doesn't mean not Retro - so many questions - can't wait to find out about it.
The dark world felt very threatening, unpleasant. It's beautiful atmosphere, but it eventually put me of constantly running through those black and grey world, getting lost because everything looks the same.
And like someone said: a dave system would've been nice. Running around for half an hour just to save set me back way to many times. You had to plan about the hours to play without anyone bothering you, just to make progress!
@garfreek and still, I really love the game to bits!
I would very much love to play a Elite meets Metroid kinda game as discussed for the initial Metroid Prime 3: Corruption design. Would love to use that gunship cockpit controls to fly around the galaxy freely, bounty hunting the scum of the universe. Maybe one day someone will do it.
@Ricube great minds! now lets hope M4 also has some great minds working on it, so maybe they can surprise the likes of us!
@Radbot42 Basically they think it's a military contractor or a mercenary, someone who performs missions for a client. I really don't see how that idea couldn't be reworked, the only difference is that Samus would be doing missions that don't necessarily involve killing or capturing a target. Could make for a nice sidequest system. Not sure what the reward could be to incentivize those sidequests though, they might need a new mechanic or a currency system to make use of that.
Also, I'd totally love to play as a Space Pirate someday. They have such cool abilities that are very different from Samus' such as Energy Scythes, EMP Grenades, and best of all, jetpacks! Would make for an interesting secondary character. Although given the single player focus, that would either have to be a spinoff or a separate storyline.
I still think that a great multiplayer mode on Switch would be cool, Prime Hunters multiplayer was gorgeous
@Shiryu Yes, that. I was always a bit disappointed MP3 didn't follow that template. Breath of the Wild was a radical re-interpretation of Zelda - wouldn't it be wonderful if the Metroid Prime universe was given a similarly huge overhaul?
@TJM
Very true about being over-ambititous instead of focusing on a manageable core idea. But as you say, sometimes this is where the big dreams are generated and the vision become clear to others (or yourself) even if it isn't met.
I'm very excited to see what they're doing with Prime 4 as well. And I'm to some extent happy that it's a new team. With Prime 3, the formula that Retro worked with had been stretched to its limits, I feel.
@Blister But will Nintendo ever have the guts to do it?
@Pod Yeah, looking beyond the original series is critical I think. Things have moved on a hell of a lot since then. A new team will bring a totally fresh perspective - and so will the time gap to a large degree. It's interesting that they chose to carry on the Prime series rather than start a new one.
@Blister I think if Nintendo have the guts to gut Zelda I think we should trust them with Metroid. They've been pulling some pretty great surprises out of the bag for the last year.
We know they're capable of big surprises and awesome re-inventions. If I let myself get carried away I can really start hoping we see the best, brightest, most exciting Metroid Nintendo can muster.
I'm not usually that prone to hype, but my love of Metroid Prime, the Nintendo potential and the lack of information is really really intriguing.
@BLD I disagree about Federation Force. It was still a good game, just not one that people wanted at the time, and one that was held back by the 3DS' hardware from it's true potential.
@TJM
I can dig them carrying on with the Prime name, but I might expect the number "4" to disappear from the eventual title on a full unveiling.
A new subtitle could imply a new narrative that doesn't roll with the original trilogy's phazon/duality-heavy plot.
@Knuckles You have a great point there. I remember my heart sinking when i found out Metroid was going first-person and was going to be developed by an American studio with zero published games to its name. And then we got Metroid Prime as we know it. Talk about defying expectations.
An open world (space) bounty hunter game with an main Metroid driven story could be amazing. Like mass effect 1 meets breath of the wild or something.
@Retron Not true, Falcon actually chases down a bounty in the comic book that comes enclosed in the F-Zero manual. Kills the guy, if I remember correctly. And part of the reason he's in the F-Zero race is to chase down Samurai Goroh, another bounty.
But yeah, I never understood why they called Samus a bounty hunter. She's more like a galactic Batman, solving problems the regular authorities can't or won't.
Was Samus ever referred to as a bounty hunter in any of the Nintendo-made games? IIRC she was a "Space Hunter" in the manual for the original '86 release, and sure most of us back then took it to mean "(science-fictioney) bounty hunter" but I think the only job description given then was that the Space Hunters combated space piracy.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Hey, that sounds familiar. Oh wait! Other M!
Just saying, be careful for what you wish for.
In my humble opinion, metroid prime is the best game of all time. Yes, I put it of Ocarina of Time. The immersion of being in the helmet of Samus was an amazing experience. I do really love the 2D metroid games too. I just don't want another experience like Other M (and for reasons not similar to the internet "masses").
@thesilverbrick the thing is, Retro isn't even that Retro anymore. It's like the new Rare, just a name. The key players from the GCN/Wii era are gone.
Aside from that, I just feel like MP4 is going to be a huge let down, because.... well, Nintendo fans.
Who knows, maybe it'll end up being the Metroid version of Breath of the Wild and we'll all be happy.
Interesting indeed. I'm a relatively new Prime fan and played the entire Trilogy over the last year or so via my Wii U. I feel like Prime 1 and 3 are almost on equal footing, while Prime 2 is just slightly behind them. They're all amazing games well worth playing, IMO. I can't wait for Prime 4 and hope it's handled well.
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes is my favorite Metroid game ever.
Despite the aspects that could theoretically have been better, I think it's a brilliant game. The level layouts, puzzles, bosses, pacing, architecture, etc are all amazing, IMO.
@gatorboi352 I think that all depends on when most of the original Retro team left. Was it essentially all new people who did Tropical Freeze? If so, I’m not too worried about it. That was an excellent game.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Thank god it was first person, it is much more immersive that way.
@Bakajin I'm assuming that the term "Space Hunter" was a translation of the original Japanese term...perhaps we should find out what the Japanese designers first conceived her role was?
@gatorboi352 the game will be a disappointment because of Nintendo fans? Wut?
Prime 2's multiplayer was weird, but it was still fun, so I'm glad they made it. I disagree with him on seeing multiple Sami run around. I hope Nintendo doesn't abandon multiplayer Metroid. Hunters was also really fun.
@BLD @10-zx I was referring more to the fact we don't know who is developing it, whereas we knew who Team Ninja, Next Level Games, and MercurySteam are.
I like the first prime. The isolation just sets the mood with the great soundtrack. I think prime 4 will have some open world to it since BotW made it work.
I plan on very soon playing all 3 on the Cube, & Wii U(Wii mode), in prep for MP4. For gamers, a game needs to be enjoyable, rather than perfect. For co.s, a game needs to be profitable, instead of perfect.
I don't own a NS yet, but I will probably get one. I enjoyed the 3 Primes. I think not setting unrealistic expectations for any game will help make the game more enjoyable. Fun is the key, word.
@Knuckles
Oh.
@gortsi because of the unrealistic hype Nintendo fans are putting around the game. Expectations will be too high to satisfy.
@gatorboi352 anything above a million would be great, everybody knows Metroid has never sold enormous amounts.
Nintendo continuing one of its critically acclaimed franchises is hardly surprising, though great nonetheless.
@Heavyarms55 That's exactly what Metroid Prime Hunters on DS did. 😋
The concept of playing as Samus hunting actual bounties always intrigued me (I mean hunting down space pirates etc, not the coconut filled chocolate bar)
It always seemed like the term Bounty Hunter was never realised within the games. She seemed to be just exploring or taking on 'seek and destroy' missions. I would love to play a game like he describes above where Samus is given the names and locations of criminals and she has to hunt them down in their seedy dens across the galaxy. It would be amazing. They could take a few ideas from the structure of Assassins Creed missions (a far inferior series, in my opinion, but has some great ideas)
@Shiryu @TMJ Here's hoping that LoZ:BotW has boosted Nintendo's confidence in taking risks with it's best loved series. It's been a long time since MP3:Corruption and styles of gaming have changed in so many ways.
I might get cheered or jeered for this statement but, I'm currently playing DOOM on Switch, and it's a pretty good game in my opinion-- Kudos to Id Software. So a thought occurred to me: I wonder if Id Software could be developing the new MP4? I think they could do some justice, but that's just speculation on my part.
@gortsi Oh I wasn't necessarily talking sales figures, more so the reception it receives.
well we don't even know the studio developing the game, so let's see. It could go either way
@SLIGEACH_EIRE while I can see where you are coming from, it is from a very niave and narrow viewpoint from someone who may not be particularly knowledgeable of Metroid so I have to totally disagree.
Pretty much all Nintendo games are 3rd person, Metroid Prime in 3rd person would've been meh, so what? Another Nintendo adventure game?
Being inside Samus suit brought Metroid Experience to life in mesmerising fashion. I cannot imagine Prime series in anything but 1st person, it is so immersive.
3rd person would've been a massive disservice.
@Retron Samus seems like some kind of legal mercenary, someone who gets paid to do special ops work for the government without any official ties to them, rather than taking independent jobs to do stuff like catch a single fugitive. I suppose that would make the Star Fox team "bounty hunters" as well.
@ArmoredGoomba There still would've been a single player mode, just as a seconday focus. Yeah, it still sounds pretty risky by modern standards, but the first two Super Smash Bros. games pulled the concept off well.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE You basically described the gameplay of "Other M" there. Like or hate the story, the black sheep of the series still has excellent gameplay, and I personally wish Nintendo would revisit that style rather than sticking with pure 2D or first person 3D entries in the series.
@BulbasaurusRex whispers I really quite liked Other M. The gameplay was pretty good and I thought the cinematics were polished. It's a shame it will never get a follow up in that style.
runs for cover
Thank goodness Prime 2 became a single-player game. And even if the dark world of Prime 2 looked samey, it was a great game. I loved the higher difficulty.
Tap here to load 85 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...