Sega Lowers Full Year Forecast Amid Pachinko Performance Problems

Mania was the best thing they've done for Sonic in a long time.

I think 2017 has been a successful year for Sega regarding gaming. Persona 5, Yakuza 0 and Sonic Mania seemed to really bolster profits.

Next year definitely seems to be more Nintendo centric with Shin Megami Tensei V.

Cue Sega should make Dreamcast 2 comments

Geez... Pachinko machines must be a really notable investment for Japanese game developers, aren't they? Either way, aside from the fact that Sonic Mania and Total War: Warhammer 2 are performing well for Sega, what other game has Sega released this year, and how did they do? Also, about Sonic Forces, if reviews and most of the reception isn't doing favors for the game, how did it do in sales? And could someone tell me something about the "struggles in the pachinko industry"? Regardless, it sounds like a mixed bag for the company when taking everything into consideration. Hopefully, this is just a minor nuisance for them and not a full-blown dilemma.

Sega (specifically Sonic Team) should stop making Sonic games and instead make reboots of their old IPs. Let's have a new Jet Set Radio, Super Monkey Ball, Crazy Taxi, etc. Its been proven that Sonic Team doesn't make good Sonic games anymore.

@ShockFire10 Basically, Sega Sammy (the parent company of Sega) have three business divisions. Pachinko (Sammy), Entertainment content (Sega, TMS Entertainment) and Resort.

In laymans terms, their entertainment division is looking promising, but their other two divisions... not so much. A factor of their improved gaming performance is the revenue from Atlus games.

Oh, gosh...
Pachinko...

So, they expected Sonic Forces to do poorly for itself but also didn't expect that pachinko owners were like: yeah, we're good with what we have.

I don't wanna hear anthing about Sega's struggles when they are sitting on a ton of unused IP's that are a literal gold mine. They're so clueless.

@Anti-Matter Sega's pachinko and gaming companies (Sammy and Sega respectively) are unafilliated with each-other's businesses. I struggle to see why you're so worried.

Here I am waiting for a new Nights and Phantasy Star

@Biff_ARMStrong Except that Sega's not struggling, their blockbuster video game titles have been profitable: Sonic Mania, Persona 5 and Total War. It's Sammy Corporation that's financially struggling.

And by the way, Sega are going to revive dormant IP's. It's part of their Road to 2020 plans they elaborated to investors.

@AlphaJaguar
Konami is also follow the Pachinko way.

@MrGamerClock64 If they are lousy as Sonic games what makes you think they're any less lousy at any other type of game?

@Anti-Matter But Konami isn't Sega though, they have a different corporate structure. The Sega brand is unafilliated with Pachinko.

@GC-161
They have actually made great non Sonic games, like Nights Into Dreams, Billy Hatcher, and especially the Puyo Puyo series.

@AlphaJaguar I was referring to their Pachinko struggles.

@Biff_ARMStrong That's handled entirely by Sammy Corporation though, Sega has no influence in that.

Basically, Sega Sammy Holdings is the parent company for Sega. It's also the parent company for Sammy Corporation. Sega is the entertainment division and Sammy Corporation is the pachinko division. Both divisions are unafilliated with each-other, their only link is their parent company.

@AlphaJaguar
For MaiMai SEGA , handheld by which division ?

@MrGamerClock64 You mentioned some games that date back a decade or two.

I'm talking about the current team that lost their way.

And that obviously are without a talented game creator leading the way.

@AlphaJaguar ..you know way too much about Sega. lol. All I know is that I want another Streets of Rage game. lol

@MrGamerClock64 So, how did NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, Jet Set Radio Future, and Billy Hatcher do in terms of sales, to begin with?

@GC-161 Honestly, I think it all boils down to management and focus when it comes to making the game. Aside from some story kerfuffles, which I don't know what happened there, I've heard that the people in charge of level design were just three people, one of which only had an experience in Sonic Lost World, while the other two are completely new to this, hence some of the gameplay problems, especially with most stages being too quick or some stages being too linear.

@AlphaJaguar Okay, then. So, what kind of struggle does the pachinko industry have now, anyway? And I assume that all three divisions have equal amounts of focus or not?

@GC-161
They haven't made a non Sonic game recently (with the exception of Puyo Puyo) but I'm pretty they'll be able to do a decent job pulling it off.

@ShockFire10
A game shouldn't be judged by the sales, but the games were released on consoles that weren't doing good, even the GameCube didn't do so hot.

An odd year only in the obtuse mind of Sega, everybody else obviously already knew that Sonic Mania was going to be far better than Sonic Forces.
Sega wanted to make it just an appetiser, I hope they learned the lesson and next time they will properly value the right game

Time to put Taxman and Stealth into the trenches designing pachinko machines for the next 30 years.

Why Sega relies heavily on unpolished Sonic games like Sonic Forces? Are there any numbers for Sonic Forces sales?

So many other things that they could be doing...

What is it with panchinko machines? Are they even good investments? Cause it sure doesn’t look like it.

@BensonUii That's what makes it even worse, they have to get outside help just to make their own mascot have a decent game.

@ShockFire10 And that's what I'm talking about. I don't doubt that the team is talented. They just lack a Kojima, Mikami or Miyamoto that will keep them on track.

Whenever a team lacks that kind of leadership, you will see mediocre results.

@MrGamerClock64 You say that based on what exactly? Hope?

Sonic's creators don't work at Sega anymore, Sega should hire them again, as freelancers or whatever. Something's not right at Sonic Team.

That's actually shocking that dead-Sega with the bad Sonic games is now the success of the company while the cash cow pachinko if flailing.

@Senpai_Bruh When are gambling machines NOT a good investment? Not many folks ever got poor running a casino...

Thing in Japan is gambling is illegal so this whole thing is "This isn't legit for gambling, honest! Scouts honor! Prize redemption of $100,000 yen per plastic token is three doors down across the street, talk to the guy in the pink tie."

But where I think the predictions are falling short is gambling legalization was on the table in Japan for the past few years, so I think the gambling machine companies were estimating high sales upon legalization....but that legislation stalled out and a greater focus has been put on "defense" in light of North Korea's activity....so with legalized gambling tabled, pachinko isn't exploding like the companies were planning/hoping/putting their carts before horses.

@BlueOcean As long as the Sonic games generate good enough profits, I doubt Sega care about the quality of the titles.

@FragRed It's weird how they only seem to care about Sonic and still can't get it right. I wonder if Sonic Forces is selling well or not.

@GC-161
Hope is the only thing we can do. It's really all up to Sega.

@MrGamerClock64 Its up to them to hire a competent producer.

Their team had talent. They just need someone with enough vision to make a game people will want to play. And not just throw stuff into the mix and hope things work out ny themselves

Well duh it's pachinko. What else do you expect? You can't win every time, either you're a business or a rich guy

I think sega should go back to their roots the classic arcade games is what sega is all about. Give us a new

Golden axe
Streets of rage
Alex kidd
Sonic mania 2

Making newer versions of the best classic megadrive games makes so much sense it will be cheaper costs to make for me personally i love the older games as they are more fun and simple to play. Sonic mania nes and snes mini consoles has proved classic gaming isnt dead and its what gamers want.

Also for Sonic Forces I presume?

I mean they sold it at 39.99 instead of the usual 60 and it got blasted by critics...

Or were they smart enough to assume Sonic Forces would be decent at best in their forecast?

...and the kick-to-the-crotch Sonic Forces didn't help either.

@GC-161 Have you played the recent entry’s in total war or football manager? They are really good. The problem is the sonic team.

@faint That's the team I'm talking about.

They need a good producer to guide their efforts. So far they seem aimless.

Here’s a idea!! For the 100th time Sega, how bout posting your back classic catalogue to the current gen consoles??? I betcha the result would be a nice influx of additional revenue?!? Cmon!

@BlueOcean I've not seen Sonic Forces troubling any sales charts and it bombed in Japan selling barely 10,000 copies in its first week across all platforms whilst Mario did over 70,000 in its 3rd week. Sega have destroyed Sonic so much over the years that he can't even begin to compete anymore, at this point they need to get rid of all these characters nobody cares about and start again

Sega needs to sell itself to Nintendo.

@ShockFire10 Yeah, they all have equal focus from a corporate standpoint.

In regards to the loss in Pachinko, changes in the Japanese laws of gambling are affecting the Pachinko industry alongside a general trend in people being less interested in Pachinko. Sammy Corporation originally had a strong market share with Pachinko, but times are just changing.

Their resort business was a recent endeavour but it's arguable thier biggest loss out of all three of their business. Funny how their gaming division used to be a mess in the late 2000's, but now, it's the division that's printing money.

@JJ286 No, just no. Sega and Atlus have a bunch of games contractually exclusive to Sony and they have subsidiaries exclusive for PC gaming. Plus, that'll just make Nintendo more monopolous than they need to be.

It's the Monkey Ball curse I'm afraid. It will only be lifted when Monkey Ball (and all classic Sega IP cough cough) come to the Switch.

@carlos82 Even though Mario usually stars in the better games, I think that the Sonic character is better and I also love Tails and Knuckles. Sonic deserves much better than what the current members of Sonic Team can achieve, they need to hire Sonic's creators.

@BlueOcean if definitely keep those 2 as well but anybody after that can just go away 😃 oh and stop Tails from talking because he's just annoying now. I used to love Sonic games and Mania is probably my second favourite game on Switch at the moment behind Odyssey. I would dearly love for them to finally get a 3D Sonic game right or at least let the Mania team make some more old school Sonic games

@GrailUK I used to love Monkey Ball until they butchered it and started making terrible ones from the Wii onwards. Actually I'm seeing a pattern here with Sega 🤔

@AlphaJaguar Sega helped with Persona 5?

@Snivy102 I think you need to have a quick refresher.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/sega_sammy_acquires_atlus_parent_company_index_for_14_billion_yen

I can't believe Sonic Mania still doesn't have a physical release. We knew before that one released that it would be a hit.

Seems like those Pachinko machines are a big money sink. Didn't work too well for Konami and obviously Sega's non video game division is hurting.

On the bright side, at least Atlus seems to be doing well with strong IPs such as SMT, Persona and EO.

I love how these guys lower they're outlook based on Pachinko whilst being sat on Golden Axe, Outrun, Afterburner, Shinobi, Phantasy Star, Streets of Rage, Hang-On, E-Swat, Altered Beast, Crazy taxi, Daytona, Virtua racing, Dragon Force, House of the dead, Jet-set radio, Panzer dragoon etc etc etc. The world cries out for these games.

@Pigeon Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 we’re actually decent.

@carlos82 Oh yeah, the script in modern Sonic games is just awful and the franchise doesn't need all those silly characters. I like Sonic Mania a lot, but I think that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is much better, that's why I'd like Sega to hire old good Sonic creators.

I wonder what Sega thinks about Sonic Forces now, they promised that it would be a high-quality Sonic game but it has met lukewarm reviews and you say that sales aren't great either. Something is not working at Sonic Team, Sega!

@ShockFire10 Sega released Puyo Puyo Tetris outside of Japan this year.

@MrGamerClock64 I would lose my marbles over a new Jet Set Radio, Super Monkey Ball, or Nights!

@carlos82 People still care about Sonic, the success of Sonic Mania proves that. What people are getting sick of are bad to mediocre games in the franchise.

I used to be a huge Sonic fan, but the string of bad to mediocre titles soured me on the franchise, and I only came back for Sonic Mania.

Sonic Mania is awesome, and proof that in the right hands a good Sonic game can still be made. Sega should have used Mania as a way to reboot the franchise, with Sonic Mania 2 coming in a few years, then Sonic Adventure 3, and then try to make a deal with Nintendo to make a Sonic/Mario teamup game that everyone wants to see.

But rather then feed off the goodwill of Mania, Sega limped Sonic Forces out and lost all of that positive feedback quickly. Now, Mania is seen as a great game, but a fluke with no change for the Sonic franchise.

Personally, I have no interest in Sonic Forces. Everything about it reminds me of the crappy Sonic games that soured me on the franchise in the first place.

Sonic can still be good in the right hands. Sonic Mana proved that. But Sonic Team could not make a good Sonic game now if their lives depended on it. Sega needs to take the franchise away from them and find someone else to do the job.

Make a Sonic Mania 2. But call it something cooler like Sonic Discovery.

I search through all comment so far and only one, ONE person mentioned Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku series. You Nintendo gamers probably not familiar with it, which is understandable, but that series is actually huge in Japan. In the west they're some kind of niche and only gaining popularity recently but in Japan they're like Call Of Duty or Assassin's Creed here with yearly release and big hype surrounding the releases.
It's SEGA's cash cow right now, and they'll keep pushing it because the series is a brainchild of the company current leader Toshihiro Nagoshi.

So while they don't do much with their old IPs, they do have some (relatively) new hotness like Yakuza/RGG, Project Diva, or Total War series.

@raisenv
The first Yakuza was released in 2005.
Shogun: Total War was released in 2000.

Hardly new hotness. 10 years is like a lifetime in this industry

What is nice to see is that Sega does remain somewhat commited to being a quality PC publisher, and for a Japanese company they've been doing pretty well, even publishing Relic and Creative Assembly's PC-exclusive games, and delivering high-quality ports of Bayonetta and Vanquish for example.

@Pigeon Sonic Adventure was well received on the Dreamcast, and actually is a decent game (in my opinion, yours differs)
Sonic Adventure 2 was made by Sonic Team USA if that’s what you mean? Some of the Japanese staff moved to the USA from Sonic Team Japan.

@AlphaJaguar meh I still think Nintendo should buy them; in fact Nintendo should also acquire Capcom.

I wonder how Konami is doing then

@raisenv PS4 is getting 3 Yakuza games in the span of 2 years right now. People talk about it constantly online. Its just not relevant to Nintendo audiences

@JJ286 I'm not going to argue against somebody who support monopolies.

@Pigeon I beg to differ on Sonic Adventure 2, it was absolutely Sonic Team USA not the Sega Technical Institute whom developed it, in fact, Sonic Spinball was the only STI delveloped 90’s Sonic game.
STI was headed by Mark Cerny and I’m pretty sure their last game under that name was Comix Zone in 1995 unless some obscure Pico game was developed by them.

Either way, it’s horses for courses, there were essentially 2 Sonic Teams, run separately no doubt like everything in Sega back then.