In January 2017, at the Nintendo Switch reveal event, Producer Yoshiaki Koizumi touted that the upcoming Super Mario Odyssey would follow in the footsteps of Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine. For long-time fans, this announcement of Mario’s return to an open-world sandbox adventure was a long time coming. As such, the excitement surrounding this entry has been full of optimism and intrigue. On the heels of a strong initial lineup for Switch, with acclaimed titles such as The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Splatoon 2, Odyssey has some very large shoes to fill compared to its Switch counterparts and its GameCube and N64 predecessors.
While attending Fan Expo Canada 2017 in Toronto, Ontario, we were able to go hands-on with this upcoming Mario adventure. The demo, as at previous events, consisted of two separate demos, one for each of the playable game kingdoms. For clarity’s sake, Super Mario Sunshine is one of this writer's favourite games of all time, and served as a benchmark for comparison throughout the demo. Thankfully, I am happy to report Super Mario Odyssey lives up to expectations thus far, with excellent controls, secrets to discover, and a game world that is visually and audibly stunning.
One of the reasons that Sunshine is one of our favourite Mario titles is the amount of control players have. The controls are perfectly tailored to Mario’s movement and level design, even more so when paired with the companion FLUDD. As such, we are happy to report that Mario Odyssey’s controls fit perfectly alongside Sunshine and Mario 64. During this demo, we played using the Joy-Con, with one in each hand. Upon loading up into the Metro Kingdom, our first instinct was to get a hang of the controls and explore Mario’s moveset. All the staples are here: the long jump, the side flip, and the triple jump all return and control very similar to Mario 64. A new addition, the somersault roll, works well for world traversal and is easily achieved using an ZL + Y input.
That’s not to say the controls are perfect. Using the Joy-Con motion controls for Mario's caps definitely doesn't feel like the preferable way to play, at least from our perspective. Compared to the amount of control found when using the analogs and buttons, having to perform a set gestures to throw the cap upwards or spin it doesn’t mesh well. We have to say the definitive way to play for veterans will be using a Joy-Con grip or Pro Controller.
At Nintendo’s E3 presentation, one of the highlights for many was the title song shown during the Super Mario Odyssey segment. While exploring the Metro Kingdom and unlocking the various musicians for Pauline’s concert, the jazzy undertone that has been heard in the promotional media is a joy to listen to and perfectly accompanies the city setting. Visually, both worlds presented a game with crisp and sharp visuals, with deep colours and impressive draw distance, showcasing the vastness of the kingdoms. When landing at the Sand Kingdom, seeing the flipped pyramid in the distance provokes an adventurous spirit for the task at hand.
The level structure of both the Metro and Sand Kingdom - the only two playable kingdoms - presented two unique styles of play. The Metro Kingdom focused more on platforming and exploration, with the skyscrapers to scale and the surrounding scaffolding to conquer. During this session, we spent much of the time exploring the building areas, trying to collect as many moons and purple coins as possible - not to mention experimenting with Cappy’s ability to possess characters and objects. Taking over a traffic cone to fling Mario across the level is one of the many new ways this mechanic can be used. We get this impression that this mechanic will be similar to Link’s wall merging ability from A Link Between Worlds. A mechanic that on paper, may seem gimmicky, but presents clever puzzle solving options and unique means of world exploration.
Comparatively, the Sand Kingdom takes a different approach with a larger world focusing more on combat. After passing through the small village, enemies such as Bullet Bill accompany the small platforming challenges and provide a different experience than that of New Donk City in the Metro Kingdom. One of the most unique experiences was the 2D segments on the ruin walls. After passing through a traditional pipe, Mario transitions to a more traditional NES-style section. The switch between play styles is seamless and is a unique and fun addition, while also serving as a callback to Mario's 8-bit heritage.
The vastness of the Sand Kingdom in particular evoked a feeling very much akin to Breath of the Wild, with a large open world and things to do in every visible direction. You can proceed towards the main objective, or explore the nooks and crannies of the towns and ruins and discover new purple coins for outfits. The openness kindles the sense of exploration both Sunshine and Mario 64 accomplished excellently.
Throughout our play session, we were able to collect a variety of different moons - some from completing sidequests, others from world traversal and using Mario’s new abilities. This transition from the traditional one star or shine per level is different, as it seemed as if moons are overabundant in the playable levels. But it seems likely than many will require a mix of skill and exploration and cater to both new and veteran players.
Super Mario Odyssey is an interesting game to say the least. Compared to Mario's adventures of old, this game is noticeably different in terms of style. Yet the fundamentals of what made those older titles great - controls, world exploration and charm - are all here, and will please any Mario fan, new or old.
Are you looking forward to Super Mario Odyssey based on what you’ve seen? Or are you cautiously optimistic? Let us know in the comments.
Super Mario Odyssey looks great. I think it's the last of the really big hitters though. What's after that? Metroid Prime 4 is years away and despite being a great franchise has never lit up the charts or sales. Pokemon is some time away as well. Nintendo need a Direct announcing more games on the way. The Kirby and Yoshi games again while they look nice and are out next year, none of the games have the impact of what Zelda, Splatoon 2 and MK8D did, or what Mario will do. Maybe I'm missing something. There's DQ but that's big mostly in Japan and it's late to the party. I bet Smash Bros. Wii U gets ported with a few extra characters. That'll give the Switch a hefty boost.
Bit risky likening the open world to BotW's around here - "Its too big! OH NOOooos!"
One of my most wanted games for 2017, if not THE most wanted. I've been waiting 4 years for another sandbox Mario and this one looks like a winner. Can't wait.
My son will be waking up to this on Christmas morning... I cannot wait. He's gonna go ballistic, his own Switch?! I think he will cry lol
Trying to keep my expectations low here.
@MartyFlanMJFan : Okay this is a pretty cool gift. Can't wait to see more units on shelves so we can hear more stories like that.
2017 year of big hits but what's left for 2018 and beyond ? I feel like After that .... no more games
@neufel I was very lucky to get one of the Splatoon 2 limited edition hardware Bundles, he adores Splatoon on Wii U & I will get Super Mario Odyssey for him, all for Christmas morning.
Yeah I just listened again to the E3 trailer theme tune after reading this.
@sailornic Fire Emblem Switch, Kirby, Yoshi and beyond 2018 Metroid Prime 4, Pokémon Switch.
And don't forget that Nintendo is pretty good at unveiling games one semester or less before release. There could be another or two Wii U ports too.
Pretty sure this should be treated equally as mandatory as BotW.
Nice to see a Canadian contributor. I feel bad for Fire Emblem Warriors. I'm gonna play it solid for a week and then play Mario for months lol.
Pre ordered and the reason I bought the switch
Quickly scrolled through so i didn't see anything
Can't wait for this game!
To say I'm excited for this game is an understatement. If I'm honest this was the main reason I bought my Switch
Its been far too long coming, still can't believe we didn't get a proper 3D Mario game on the Wii U (3D world doesn't count as it was more of a 2.5D game)
Can't believe it's been almost 10 years since the first galaxy game
@Marios-love-child 3d world was good multiplayer game tho. 3d land was better
@iamthesunset Dunno about that one. I honestly can't see the hype to be frank.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE It seems possible that Retro has a game far into development that will be revealed and released in fairly quick succession.
It was a brilliant game in its own right, I just think the 3D world and land games are kind of in a category of their own and shouldn't really be compared as they are totally different.
Glad the article spent time on the controls, I'm really hoping Nintendo gets this working properly with the Pro controller b/c I'm not a fan of the joy cons and motion. We're still getting it day 1 anyway but I'll wait for a Pro patch if they say one is coming. I recall a Wii U game or 2 getting controllers patched in after release. SMBU maybe?
The game looks very promising. I just hope there are puzzles and challenges that go a bit deeper than what we've seen so far. Most of what they've shown is on the shallow and easy side. With an open structure, they have the opportunity to put harder and more complicated stuff even in earlier kingdoms, instead of saving it for a final, secret world or something like that. I hope that's the case.
@MartyFlanMJFan Splatoon 2,ARMS Mario Odyssey and a new console. That's the kind of Xmas you remember for years/decades to come. I still remember waking up to my Spectrum and Master System.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Pokémon will most likely be Q4 2018, so you're right about that one. As for what we'll have in the year between those titles:
-Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (no mass appeal though)
-Payday 2 (a port...)
-Rocket League (a port...)
-Kentucky Route Zero (again, no mass appeal)
-Fire Emblem (more and more popular these days)
-Kirby, like you mentioned
-Yoshi, like you mentioned
Honestly, I'm going to have to agree with you. True heavy hitters still need announcing. There's a ridiculous amount of awesome indies coming to the Switch, but almost no 'console selling' titles after Super Mario Odyssey...
@OorWullie man I hope so, I am so excited for him. He's aware how difficult it is to get a Switch, I think he will really appreciate it. My cousin bought ARMS recently he thinks it's great, he can't wait till my son has it too lol.
What are the chances of a Direct between now and Xmas that details a few unannounced games for next year? Pretty slim me thinks. But surely that would tip more people over the edge and invest in a Switch this Xmas.
@Akropolon don't forget Pikmin 4 is sat there waiting for the green light as well. Plus Retro's beast whatever that is.
@Akropolon But the 'system selling' games are already out there and won't stop selling systems.
Expect new Switch owners to pick up Mario Kart 8, Splatoon 2 and BoTW throughout the lifetime of the console.
Other games will push the visibility of the console and promote it as a vital and ongoing system but they don't necessarily have to be as big to lure in new owners who benefit from the pick of a much bigger back catalogue.
@beazlen1 Pikmin 4 most likely started life as a Wii U title, so should be fairly easy to port for Nintendo. Still, given the little attention Nintendo's spent on it in the press, I'm guessing it's not a priority.
And yeah, I keep forgetting about Retro. They're not developing MP4, so could be anything, really. I'm personally not bothered by the lack of "big" titles right now though: busy playing Mario + Rabbids, will spend dozens and dozens of hours on Super Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and will most likely get Skyrim as well at one point. I'm good.
@StuTwo Fair enough, but you still need new big titles as well. People won't pick up a PS4 for Uncharted 4 a year from now, just like they aren't picking one up for The Last of Us as we speak.
It's not a one-on-one comparison, seeing how Nintendo titles have ridiculously long legs (GTA V is one of the few comparable titles), but Nintendo will still need new, fresh heavy hitters for commercials, shelf space and press conferences to keep the Switch train going (which I'm convinced of they will).
@SLIGEACH_EIRE animal crossing is a huge one.
In less than a year, Mario will have gotten Mario Maker, Mario + Rabbids, and Odyssey. These three titles would each be generation defining masterpieces. And they were all released in a very short time period. It really is the greatest time to be a Mario fan.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I understand you find new Xenoblade uninteresting? With it and Skyrim introducing RPGs to Switch, hopefully they will announce some more. Next year we are gonna see one more big RPG (if Pokemon is not moved further, then that's it). Probably some 2d platformers (maybe a donkey kong by retro). I would think that they should have a slot for a fighting game (smash would be awesome, but unlikely, they might do a full-on addon for ARMS). And so on. With 20 mils sold at this point (once again, hopefully) and healthy indie support, that seems like a quite a console. It surely beats the launch of PS4 (it had almost zero great exclusives at the beginning), so one would hope that at this point 3rd party will be eager to move on this platform (especially Japaneese).
@faint But that hasn't been announced even though it's 99% definitely in the works.
No, I love Xenoblade. It's not a system seller though as much as I think it deserves to be.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Xenoblade IS a system seller because it has a cult following. It won't sell as many systems as Mario but it will sell systems, which is worth a lot to Nintendo.
All I have to say is I've been gaming for years, I've only owned an nes and a 3ds as far as Nintendo products go until the switch. Now that I was lucky enough to grab one I haven't touched my Xbox one or pc for months, I am in love with this thing! The older I get, the more and more I realize I can't stand the all serious fps online communities anymore and that I'm right at home With the colorful, quirky world that Nintendo offers. It's got me interested in genres I would've never taken a look at before and that makes me happy. I'm hype for this Mario and plenty in between and can't wait to see what's coming in the future! Keep it coming Nintendo - good work!
Lol I will be getting this game day 1 if I have to go to 10 different stores to find it! Looks fun, sounds fun. If there is one thing you can rely on with Nintendo, it's the love and attention they give their mascot.
All that said, I am dreaming of a Mario Galaxy HD or Galaxy 3 on Switch too someday.
Also one of the reasons I want Gamecube Virtual console support too is because I missed out of Mario Sunshine. I went straight from 64 to Galaxy for some reason. I had and still have a Gamecube, but never got around to playing it for some reason.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Aren't you depressed about somebody posting before you?
We will have a direct by Xmas announcing the Spring line up where Smash DX will be a highlight along with Yoshi... Wonder what is coming May 2018 onwards?
For the general public, Super Mario Odyssey is the first exclusive AAA Switch game, with Splatoon 2 and Arms more like AA games and Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8 two multiplatform releases. The second big game could be Metroid Prime 4 or Pikmin 4, but I don't know when those are going to be released.
I'm not a fan of Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World but as a fan of Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine I am curious about what Super Mario Odyssey will finally be.
Looks like it'll get loads of 10.
@Bread-Not-Toast But would it if it wasn't called Mario?
@SLIGEACH_EIRE - Will the VC be something that will make some noise over the 1st part of 2018 until we get to Pokemon and Fire Emblem? I'm waiting for some sort of Direct soon to explain the after holiday items they have, but in December/January I expect the usual blow out direct with a reveal of GameCube VC.
For me, I'm pretty confident it'll be my GOTY. And I absolutely adored BOTW.
@Akropolon At a guess there are plenty of people who are still picking up a PS4 for Uncharted 4 & The Last of Us. They're just probably not the type of people who post on internet message boards.
Likewise their reasons for picking up a PS4 are probably not tied to a single game but more like "there's been a few games over the past couple of years on that console that I quite wanted to play but not enough to tip over the money for the console itself at the time". Some will be XBox 360/PS3 holdouts who finally have to upgrade because their machine breaks.
Switch will (hopefully) experience the same.
I agree though that they'll need things to anchor exhibitions e.g. E3 and to lead with in advertisements but this shouldn't be a problem for them. They have enough big sellers lined up that are coming but that haven't been officially announced.
On a slightly different but similar topic - XC2 is releasing this year. Remember at the start of the year when it was announced and everyone's first reaction was "no chance of a 2017 release"? The common consensus is that Pokemon and Metroid aren't coming in 2018 but it could well be that we see either or even both.
@Gerbwmu The New 3DS XL SNES Edition and the SNES Classic Edition are both celebrating the SNES and Nintendo has teased SNES games on Switch. If I were Nintendo I would do it as soon as possible but it seems that they are making them part of that Nintendo Online subscription.
@StuTwo I think that most people buy a PS4 or Xbox One for the multiplatform games, though. If you see the charts, most top-selling games are multiplatform with only a few weeks per year with an exclusive game like Uncharted or Halo. They see the value in the combination of third-party support plus some exclusive games.
@Muddy_4_Ever But Super Mario Maker came out in September 2015 - a full two years before Odyssey's release. Unless you're talking about the 3DS version, which was fine, but I think you'd be pushed to call it a "generation defining masterpiece", due to the highly limited online functionality. It was a creation game that made it extremely difficult to share your creations with anyone you weren't standing directly next to.
Mario + Rabbids is a fantastic turn-based tactical RPG, but there's that term again, "generation defining masterpiece"... I'd go for "incredibly well realised and beautifully animated SRPG with a lot of charm and a couple of flaws (mainly outside the actual battles)". It's a great game, and a credit to the system, but those words are not to be used lightly.
And then there's Odyssey, which looks brilliant, but ultimately it's a game none of us have fully played yet (and most of us not at all). So... we can't make any fully formed judgements about its quality. Very much looking forward to it though!
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I'm sure Nintendo has plenty of secrets. They've been announcing a lot of stuff close to release lately.
Different doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though.
I just see it as being closer to the 2D games rather than 3D.
Eg. Having to run to a flag pole at the end within a set time limit rather than solving puzzles and looking for a star or a shine, there was very little exploration and the levels were pretty much mapped out for you.
As I said in another post it's still a brilliant game in its own right, just different enough to be in a category of its own.
If I did have one criticism of it that would be having to hold the run button, it's fine on a 2D side scroller but just didn't feel right in land and world (for me anyway)
@AlternateButtons Yes, Splatoon 2 is selling well in Japan. What I mean is that it has similar visuals and gameplay to the Wii U game which wasn't a AA game either in terms of production.
@Marios-love-child "If I did have one criticism of it that would be having to hold the run button, it's fine on a 2D side scroller but just didn't feel right in land and world (for me anyway)"
To hold a run button doesn't make any sense in a 3D environment with analogue sticks available.
@AlternateButtons I know what he means. Was Super Mario 64 your first 3D Mario game? That was a real 3D platformer and so was Super Mario Sunshine. Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World are not 2D nor 3D but a weird mix that I'm not very fond of. One of my complaints about them is that some levels require you to do 2D stuff with a 2D camera in a 3D setting with loose 3D controls.
@BlueOcean Splatoon 2 looks appreciably better than its predecessor (it's come a fair way since the Test Fire). It's also received some notable gameplay expansions in the form of Salmon Run and a beefier, more fully fledged single-player mode. In the addition, the core mechanics have been notably tweaked and fine tuned, with alterations to map design, weapons, modes and overhauled specials creating a much tighter experience. The general idea is still the same, but if it weren't, it arguably wouldn't be a sequel.
I don't know the formal definition of a 'AAA game', so I don't feel qualified to say whether it falls in that category, but it's definitely now one of Nintendo's biggest and most influential IPs - especially in Japan where it's already sold almost twice as many copies as Zelda despite being out for a fraction of the time.
@Maxz Fair point, it's better than the Wii U version, if it wasn't I would be worried. I just said it has similar visuals and gameplay. I don't know why it's more successful in Japan, in between.
A AAA game is usually a game with the highest development budgets and levels of promotion. I'm not sure about the first part in the case of Splatoon 2.
Being new to the Nintendo party, obviously I haven't played many Mario games. What I'm going to say will be blasphemy to most, but I meber really saw the appeal
Of the plumber. Yes I know, my first wxperience was Mario 3, as a 4 year old, I loved playing it with my cousins. I was in love with the outfits(Tanooki for the win).
Nothjng after that appealed to me, and so I never played another Mario. I tried the Mario in my iPhone and it did nothjng but reaffirm my disdain. So why am I so excited for Odyssey? I think it looks gorgeous and the ability to explore just has me captivated. I am going to skip FE Warriors because I know i will be pure Mario.
This isn't the sort of game that will move consoles in my opinion. I just hope they allow me to try Sunshine in my Switch. As much as it's been mentioned in this article, perhaps I missed a gem in that game.
@Rumncoke25 Super Mario 64 is available on Wii and Wii U so more people had the chance to play it. Super Mario Sunshine has never been re-released. Those two are my favourite 3D Mario games this far. If you already have a Switch Super Mario Odyssey is a no-brainer, I think. Hopefully you will have the chance to play Super Mario Sunshine too. You should play Super Mario World as well and probably before any other Mario game. I didn't like Super Mario Run either.
@Maxz Sorry about getting my dates mixed up on Mario Maker! The 3DS release of a really bad port of the game through me off .
I still contend that it was a seminal game. The ability to design courses to that degree was something pretty profound for a popular series. I don't think there's any precedent for Nintendo giving so many tools for user created content in a game. As far as Mario + Rabbids goes, it probably doesn't do anything that we haven't seen in other turn-based games. What makes it unique is how approachable it makes what was previously a pretty dense genre. And you are certainly correct to note that Odyssey speculation is just that- speculation. But from what we've seen, I fully expect something on the order of a BotW evolution of the series.
While whether or not this is "Mario's Greatest Era" is too subjective to declare one way or another, I think we can certainly say that it's a very good time for the little (former) plumber.
One of my most anticipated games of 2017.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Oh, I'm sure they have a lot of big things in the works for 2018 and beyond. There is plenty more they could do with Switch and just because there are few announcements yet it would be foolish to assume they are using up all they have for 2017.
It's not "possessing". It's "capturing". Nintendo can't make a demonic Mario game lol
This game is going to be fantastic. I'm trying to clean up my switch backlog a bit before it comes out though.
@Muddy_4_Ever Oh man, I'd totally agree with you that SMM was a phenomenal video game! It was just the "in less than a year" part that I wasn't so sure about.
Along with the original Splatoon, it was one of the few games on the Wii U that I felt was really pushing Nintendo games forward in a bold new way. There were some great titles on the system, but many of them were familiar enough that you didn't need to own a Wii U to understand what made them work. You could get a good taste of Smash4, SM3DW, NSMBU and MK8 by playing through Smash4, SM3DL, NSMB2 and MK7 on the 3DS respectively. Tropical Freeze was a sequel to a reboot of an old school 2D platformer, and Kirby and Yoshi were both pleasant, attractive and inoffensive iterations in their respective series. But it was Mario Maker and Splatoon that really broke new ground, either by inventing a concept from scratch, or giving you the tools to reinvent a well trodden series in your own image.
Perhaps it's strange to describe as a 'masterpiece' something that's more akin to a canvas and paints, but I won't argue for a second that it was anything other than a fantastic, Wii U-defining game. Just... not a recent one.
It's also fair to credit M+R for being nothing like any game I've ever played on a Nintendo console before. It's all the more impressive for it being a cross-over title, which often go down a pretty bland and uninspired development route so as not to alienate fans of either series.
This game is going to be great. I can't wait to play. This, Mario+Rabbids, Spla2n, and Xenoblade are going to keep me busy. SMT on Switch is coming next year too but it's also going to be on PS4 so I don't know which one I'll get.
I'm waiting for NLife's review on Mario Odyssey as well just to see them give it the first 12/10 review score.
@AlternateButtons I explained it above. LOL
@SLIGEACH_EIRE i mean we just got comfirmed of la noire remastered and resident evil revalations 1 and 2, and we have xenoblade, which usually sells well, however Next year will be great too
Xenoblade sells alright, not great, hopefully XC2 can do better. The other 2 games you mentioned are ports that have been out for quite a while, especially in L.A. Noire's case, 6 years.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Could be right,but there's also Kirby,Yoshi,Fire Emblem mainline game all for next year plus whatever else hasn't been mentioned yet.This year still FE Warriors,XC2,along with FIFA,Skyrim,Revelations 1&2,Rocket League and just announced LA Noire. I wonder if more third party announcements may be on the way for early next year. I think Nintendo maybe brought the Odyssey release date forward so as not to clash with the third parties games towards the end of the year.Had they gone for a November/December release those third party games wouldn't stand a chance of selling well against Odyssey imo
@AlternateButtons No need to get authoritarian. If you think that way then it's fine but it doesn't mean that I'm wrong.
I still have to go back, & watch the 3-day Treehouse livestreams of this game. Fortunately, I have the benefit of going directly to those specific Youtube videos, as opposed to sitting through the other games. That's only fun with live comments.
Odyssey comes with the portly plumber? Check. Beautiful world to explore? Check. Interesting new mechanics? Check. Intriguing controls? Check. Bowser kidnapped Peach for the five millionth time? Check check check.
The verdict: This game is joining my Switch collection the day I buy one.
Mega hype for this one. Dang, what a first year for the Switch, and this won't even be the last with Xenoblade 2 coming out in Nov./Dec.
Hope there'll be a new Donkey Kong's Bananadrama game for Switch. The development team for the most excellent Tropical Freeze (which I still have to finish, so hard) probably has one or more tricks up their sleeve surely?
At first I didn't like it. But now I might want it
Year of hits?
Haven't been this hyped for a Mario platformer since Mario Galaxy. Galaxy 2, 3D Land, and 3D World were great games, but it's been 10 years since Nintendo did something truly unique with a Mario platformer.
I like how the Mario games that people spend the most time arguing 'aren't really 3D' are the same ones that Nintendo explicitly put the word '3D' in the title of for the avoidance of doubt.
For what is worth, I'm pretty sure Super Mario 3D Land/World are almost universally accepted as '3D games' of some description. They're not an exploration-heavy, open-ended adventure-platformer in the mould of Sunshine and 64, but they are 3D. The former title is even stereoscopically 3D. We really shouldn't be using '3D' as a shorthand for 'explorative' or 'open-ended', when the word is already doing double duty in trying to describe both the graphics and degrees of freedom of movement of a video game. Sometimes a game will be fully rendered with polygonal 3D graphics, but only allow movement within a 2D plane. These are the titles where the term 2.5D is most commonly used - even more so if some sort of 'jumping between layers' is employed. Using the term 2.5D to describe games that have fully 3D visuals and unrestricted movement in 3D space only muddies the waters.
For reference, Nintendo refers to the two game styles as 'Course Clear Style 3D', and 'Miniature Garden Exploration 3D' games. But they're both clearly identified as being fully 3D games. Using this terminology seems more sensible than trying to splinter dimensions to make a point about the exploration (or lack of it) in a given title.
I'm reading through all these comments and I'm seeing everyone mention all these different games, but I'm wondering why isn't anyone others like WWE 2K18? Sure Fate/Extella is a lesser known game, but it looks like fun.
@Maxz Good point. LOL
EDIT: About your lengthy edit, the lack of exploration and most of all the mix of 2D and 3D gameplay with a fixed camera that makes some jumps unnecessarily clunky makes it feel not true 3D. Of course, the graphics are 3D and even double-3D on 3DS like you cleverly teased, but you know what I mean, is not the open-world game that Super Mario 64 and Sunshine are. Not even Galaxy is open either, since the planets are really tiny and the progression is totally scripted.
@BlueOcean Yeah, this is why Nintendo lumps the Galaxy games together with the 3D World games, as you can see in the image above. Not everyone agrees - some people prefer to group them with 64 and Sunshine - but I think it makes sense.
I get what you're talking about absolutely. My main point is simply that we should be discussing these differences in terms of 'open-endedness' and 'explorativity' of the game design - which are open for debate - rather than in terms of 'dimensions' - which are pretty rigorously defined already, and not open to much interpretation.
It's purely a matter of semantics. I have no doubt that the differences you're referring to exist and are meaningful enough to be worth discussing. In fact, they're fundamental to what makes those games feel different. I just disagree about what we should call them when holding that discussion.
Oh, I hadn't see that image. Interesting, so Nintendo agrees with me and even use my favourite games to hype Odyssey. They define them thoroughly, though. EDIT: Can you read Japanese?
My comment agrees with you that is a matter of semantics. For me it's a way of saying, hey this is not a true 3D Mario game because has nothing to do with 64 or Sunshine, but also because they remind me more of linear (2D-scripted) games.
@BlueOcean Well a truly 'linear' game would be '1D', rather than '2D', as a line is a one-dimensional object. Two dimensions generally describe surfaces such as planes, which allow some degree of freedom when moving from one point to another, whereas a line locks you down to a single path. But I get your point.
It's why I think 'linearly structured, course clear style 3D platformer', and 'open-ended, explorative style 3D platformer' (or similar terms) are good. Some people just call them 'linear games' and 'explorative games', which is easier. But really I think it's a spectrum, with the '3D' titled games at the most linear end of the scale, followed by Galaxy 2, then Galaxy, and then 64 and Sunshine. Odyssey looks to be even less linear still (almost muscling into Banko-Kazooie territory), so it'll probably go at the far right end of the spectrum.
And I'm somewhat proficient in Japanese (I think I can say that now), but not fluent. The above translations are fine though. Technically 'box garden' would be a more direct translation than 'miniature garden', but the latter sounds more natural to my ears.
@Maxz Banjo-Kazooie is one of my favourite games ever.
No doubt in my mind Nintendo will win almost all publications ' GOTY this year between this and BOTW. I'm wondering which one I'll like better, I can't wait!!!!
@BlueOcean I'm a big fan too. It's partly why I'm looking forward to Odyssey. It's been a while since we got a meaty, open ended platformer-cum-explorathon on a Nintendo console.
Wait, are there actually people who misuse the 2.5D terminology? How dumb is that?!
To me, 2.5D is simply a game with 3D visuals but 2D movement, that's it. New Super Mario Bros. DS/Wii/2/U is fully 2D with polygonal character models, while, say, Metroid Samus Returns is 2.5D.
Or maybe it was me being wrong the whole time about how this works?
I'll be skipping this for Nights of Azure 2. Might pick it up in the future though. Now if only they'd make a game where Mario and Luigi have to do some actual plumbing work!
I'm cautiously ecstatic! I cannot wait for this game!!
@GravyThief it's a great tune. So catchy!
@GameOtaku that's where it's at! Super Plumber Bros. GX! E3 2018.
@sailornic Don't worry, that's why Nintendo always has nintendo directs, to announce alot of new games for that year! because they normally don't announce games too early, only a few just to tease a little.
It's Mario. It's Open World. It's Platforming.
Nintendo has been on a absolute tear this year with the Nintendo Switch, great games for its first year! I am so looking forward to this new Mario game
Zelda or the new Mario will be game of the year for me i think
A new zelda, mario, and xenoblade all in the same year.
Yeah this will be amazing no doubt.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE they don't need a big hit with Christmas coming...every system will be sold...
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