Australian studio Tantalus Media has been around since 1994 and found early fame by porting Sega titles like Manx TT and House of the Dead to the Saturn, but more recently the company has gained recognition for its Wii U work, specifically the ports of Mass Effect 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD. It's also the firm responsible for converting RiME to the Switch.
Tantalus CEO Tom Crago has been speaking the latest latest episode of Fragments of Silicon about working on Twilight Princess HD, the challenge of convincing Nintendo it was up to the task and many other aspects of development.
Crago revealed that the company's long-standing relationship with Nintendo helped it get its foot in the door:
I mean we had a game that was published by Nintendo in the past. That game was called Top Gear Rally on the Game Boy Advance which we developed originally for a very small Japanese publisher called Kemco. And Nintendo liked it, so they decided to publish it as a second-party title, and in the course of building that relationship, I was able to go to Kyoto a couple of times – and obviously when you get the opportunity to go to Nintendo headquarters and meet people there, these are relationships that you want to nurture when you're making video games, so that's what I did. I kind of kept those lines of communications open.
But I think the big thing actually for Nintendo was when we did Mass Effect 3 on Wii U… the two big ones that we did on Wii U were Mass Effect 3 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and Nintendo were pretty impressed by those games technically, I think. They liked how we'd taken the original games from PC and console and brought them onto Wii U. So when they were thinking about a Zelda title and looking around for external developers, then it's kind of a pretty short list of studios who had kicked some goals on the Wii U at this point. So they approached us, which is a pretty nice fun call to receive when you're asked if you'd have any interest in working with The Legend of Zelda. We jumped up and down in excitement, and then commenced the fairly long process of convincing them that we could do that job.
Even so, it wasn't simply a matter of asking and getting permission - Tantalus spent "several months" convincing Nintendo it could handle a project of this size and stature:
[It took] several months. I mean they are obviously an incredibly meticulous company, and we're talking about a beloved property – one of the most beloved properties in the whole house of Nintendo, so we approached it very diligently and carefully, and we went to Kyoto a couple of times to meet with Aonuma-san and his team, and to talk to them about the work that we'd done and what we proposed to do on Twilight Princess, and then there are a series of experiments and tests and trials and so on before you have the opportunity to actually go into full development, and we are fortunate that we got that opportunity.
Crago explains that Nintendo was intimately involved with every element of production:
Aonuma-san himself, obviously, he signs off on everything – it's his game. At all levels he was omnipresent. And then a team of people there in Kyoto dedicated to the game, so daily conversations, very regular calls, a bit of back and forth between us here in Melbourne and Nintendo in Kyoto, and regular builds and reporting, and all those things. So yeah, absolutely, they were extremely hands on.
It must have been 18 months plus, and the team… up to maybe like 40 people at various points. I mean, a big game even in its adaptation in terms of time frame and team size.
Despite being a port, Crago explains that he and his team wanted to do so much more with Twilight Princess, aside from the amiibo content that was introduced:
As a developer you always want to do more, more, more, make it bigger, bigger, bigger, add more features and so on, so there is a list of extra features sitting on a server here somewhere with probably 20 or 30 ideas of things that we could have done. Ultimately the decision not to add those features was the right one from Nintendo, but as creators and as people who are inspired by doing cool s***, you always want the opportunity to be able to implement those ideas, so absolutely no regrets and we're proud of what we achieved. I'm very proud of everybody here that worked on that game. There are always things you look back on and think it would have been nice to add that feature or have the chance to play around with that.
Do you feel that Tantalus repaid Nintendo's confidence with Twilight Princess HD? Let us know with a comment.
[source twitch.tv, via nintendoeverything.com]
Comments (74)
Why Nintendo hasn't purchased Tantalus as a subsidiary by now is beyond me...
By the time they manage to convince them for a Switch port, Switch 2 will be coming out
God, I freaking hate censorship in interviews from the bottom of my heart...
The episode was interesting, though. It was a big step for Nintendo to let a foreign company remaster one of their classics, and now they've even let a foreigner program Breath of the Wild too. Nintendo really have changed since the 90's.
@G-Boy Who cares? I prefer mass media over media 100% targeted at one person.
@MadAdam81 "Mass media"? More like "media targeted at American soccer moms".
No wonder it takes so long for these frikin' things to come out when it takes 18 months just to get frikin' approval to work on them. How ridiculous; talk about a slow and long-winded process.
@AlphaJaguar Because that would require Nintendo spending money.
I also think it would be cool for Nintendo to make these guys second party and get them working full time on the Switch. They could [theoretically, I've no idea how big/small they are] split half their team to work on ports (Captain Toad), and the other half could get working on a new game.
Or just carry on using them as freelance work, I guess! Whatever works for them.
In regards to their work on TP:HD, I've not actually played it. I've still never even played the original though. I will play it the moment it comes to Switch! I do have their Mass Effect 3 port though, thought that was well done.
It would be cool if Tantalus made an HD port of Super Mario Sunshine
Completely worth it, TPHD is beautifully done. I hope this means Tantalus won't have to work so hard just to get Nintendo's attention in the future...we need Switch games and Tantalus port jobs are really good.
Less ports on Switch please.
@AlphaJaguar
Maybe they don't want to be purchased? Not all third party companies aspire to be acquisition targets. I'm sure that some would prefer to release their own software, but it's a lucrative niche. Perhaps the owners of Tantalus want to produce their own games, eventually, and being a subsidiary severely restricts that creative flexibility.
Too bad the game doesn't look like the Tech Demo!
@Gold_Ranger I agree!
I would have loved it if it looked like that.
@crouteru How about a proper Zelda Collection? The closest to that we've ever had was the GameCube promotional disc that didn't even see a proper release. I think I got mine from a Nintendo Power magazine, but I might be wrong. That aside, the Switch and the attention it's getting is a perfect opportunity for Nintendo to create such a title.
They did a great job with it. I'm sure it will lead to more work coming their way.
@AirElephant But judging from what Tantalus does, all they've been doing lately is Wii U ports. It's a mutual benefit for an acquisition to occur, Tantalus has easier access to Nintendo intellectual properties and their capital, whilst Nintendo has an in-house team to port their games.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE at least in a world where everyone can play their Wii U on the train like that one Japanese guy managed to. X^)
I still don't get what's the big deal with older ports. GB, Game Gear, GBA, DS, 3DS, PSP, Vita - every portable platform has seen a bunch of older ports in their library, and for a good reason. Even smartphones have attempted old console game ports. Not to mention that for many region-exclusive games, every port is another chance at a localisation.
Pretty sweet deal, getting to work on Zelda through this kind of arrangement. Certainly helps put a studio on the map.
@AlphaJaguar If all they've been doing is porting games to the Wii U, then what does Nintendo gain by purchasing them?
Manx TT was a great Saturn game. Very colorful and polished.
They did a pretty great job with this game, and their enthusiasm for new features makes it sound like these people are fans of the series. I wonder if these features will ever be made?
I haven't had the opportunity to play it but from a fellow Aussie, well done Tantalus and keep up the good work!
I have to assume Tantalus is already working on something for Switch. Probably be an E3 surprise. They did a great job with ME3 and LoZTP for Wii U, and I'd assume someone has them working on a port. I'm sure Nintendo would love to farm out remasters and remakes to them to keep their own dev teams free to do new things.
Deus Ex on Wii U is a hidden gem.
Really impressed with what they did.
ME 3 was really good too but Deus Ex beats it.
It really should be in your Wii U collection if you love the Wii U.
It's a must buy.
They did a brilliant job.
Hope Nintendo give them more work, Geist remake would be good, especially multiplayer.
@Gerbwmu RiME and I /think/ Sonic Mania?
Tantalus are the 2nd best porting company, next to Bluepoint Games.
@Frosty_09 Agreed. But then this is Nintendo!
The work the Tantalus did on porting ME 3 in tact in such a short time frame was incredible - even more incredible when you consider that the Wii U had poor dev kits, poor documentation and no support from Nintendo!
@G-Boy It's called a standard journalism practice. Look at a news paper or any notable media site and you'll see profanity be censored out like that.
Of course, in the era of Jim Sterling, Doug Walker, and other vitriolic loud-and-proud "critics" journalism practice goes mostly out the window.
I never purchased Twilight Princess HD because of the lack of Wii controls, which is a shame really.
It's good we got it, but I would rather Skyward Sword HD, hpe we get for Switch.
Switch port pretty please
@AlphaJaguar The potential problem is that if they buy them, Nintendo would have to continually give them projects. It is smarter to work with them on a few projects before developing a strong partnership or even buying them.
Other than Tantalus making ports of wii/GameCube/wiiu games, Nintendo could use them to port big 3rd party games to lower the hurdle for getting 3rd party games on their system.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Why would you care? Aren't you anti-Switch or something?
@AlphaJaguar why Nintendo hasn't done a lot of things that seem like no brainers and common sense by now is beyond all of us.
OT: pretty interesting that TPHD actually performs better and is technically superior than WWHD in every way, despite WWHD being developed entirely in house by Nintendo.
@crouteru Better yet - A new Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition!
They're a decent remastering crew but like 90% lack attention to detail when it comes to smaller things that affect a game's level of enjoyment.
This should be the greater focus of a remaster; leave the good bits alone, shine 'em up as much as you please, but when you've the chance to fix up something like having to maintain Wolf Link's speed by pushing a button every five seconds instead of providing a more sensible "hold to boost" option, take it and make the most of it.
Tantalus did a really good job with Twilight Princess HD. The finished product looked so much better than the screenshots suggested. I'd actually love to play it on Switch.
I feel like the ones who made the Wind Waker HD remaster could have done a much better job than what Tantalus did with TP HD.
I'd say they earned the right to not have Nintendo's hand up their @$$ for their next port job. Twilight Princess HD ran well and looked good on WiiU. I would like to see those "extra features" they cut out....
@Solid_Stannis they already said they tried to make changes but had to run everything through Nintendo. I'd be willing to bet they had a bunch of things that would've made the game better that Nintendo squashed.
'Tantalus Spent "Several Months" Convincing Nintendo It Could Handle Zelda: Twilight Princess HD'
So, they just lied I guess. Because that port has some ugly textures that lose the character of the original, not to mention that it added stability issues in a remaster. As well as randomly worsening parts of the game, like the ugly gate they put into Ordon Village, closing off the fishing spot in the cove for no reason.
@MarcelRguez A means of transferring assets from one system to another, porting third party games to Nintendo systems, another developer team etc. There's a lot of potential this team can achieve if they become a part of Nintendo.
@AlphaJaguar For sure, having more available manpower available is never a bad thing, unless they're sitting twiddling their thumbs. The thing is, if they can already be hired to do all that you listed without acquiring them, then there's no real reason to do so. @roboshort got that right, and there might be lots of other reasons why Nintendo wouldn't be interested in acquiring them, if the people at Tantalus are even interested in that to begin with.
@AlphaJaguar That's the kind of thinking that lead to EA buying pretty much every studio they'd done business with a decade or so ago. What they learned is that when you buy them an inevitably homogenize them with the in-house corporate culture that was already its own worst enemy, you don't pick up anything new, you just great a larger base for the same problem. Most of their acquisitions ended up being shuttered and stripped of any IPs they held as their teams (that made them worth buying) fled as fast as they could to get away from the incoming bureaucracy.
Nintendo buying Tantalus would ultimately result in Nintendo owning/leasing real estate in Australia with a sign on the front that says Tantalus. And a new building down the street that has half the employees that used to work at Tantalus, while the other half scatter to a dozen other companies/form indies. It wouldn't really amount to much more.
Such things look great to bean counters, not so great in practice.
@Haru17 I really don't think it's possible for the textures to get uglier than the original. OG TP was many things. Pretty was not one of them. And I'm not sure what stability issues you mean, I can't recall a single crash or freeze when playing this game.
I haven't played TP HD yet, so I can't really compare it with the Wii version that I have played. I am thankful that the game was rereleased on the Wii U, and I still love my Wolf Link amiibo.
@NEStalgia The textures looked waxy and did not suit the updated resolution at all. The original game had everything consistent. Just looking at the texture on Link's hair or stonework gave a sense of depth that the 'HD' version did not possess.
It was a beautiful game if you weren't obsessed with bright primary colors and garish schemes.
And, if you did not know, there were problems with the 'HD' port especially in off TV mode: https://mynintendonews.com/2016/03/03/digital-foundry-twilight-princess-frame-rate-isnt-as-stable-on-wii-u-as-gamecube-or-wii/
@CrazedCavalier I never said it wasn't a standard business practice, I just said that I hated it.
Twilight Princess was visually stunning, it was a very solid WiiU port. I also played Mass Effect and a bit of Deus Ex too, and had no issues with either, so I'd be more than glad to see Tantalus work with Nintendo again.
And if they need any inspiration I'd love to see what Ocarina of Time would look like on Switch
@Haru17 I'll give you the off-tv one, as I have not played it off-tv, so I don't know what issues it might have had in that mode.
But the textures...yeah the original game had everything consistent. A consistently smeared blurry mess with a horrible, bloom/blur filter that made surfaces all look unrecognizable, and created a blur that managed to be the first and only video game ever to give me a headache
TP remained the only Zelda game other than II I did not play to completion (until the HD version) due to the waggle controls and blurred visuals of the Wii making it an unpleasant experience. I did not play the GCN version which at least made the controls bearable originally, but I don't know about the visuals.
If you are playing the original right now on the same screen as the HD version and compare them, then what you see is certainly not what I see. I can hardly look at the Wii version. If you're remembering through the rose tinted glasses of viewing the original on a CRT screen effectively providing different filtering you'd be surprised what it looks like on an HD modern screen.
I gave up on it on the Wii the first time on a 1080P LCD, and I gave up trying my Wii disc on the WiiU Wii mode a second time. Hated TP. Then played the HD version and learned to love TP as one of my favorites.
@NEStalgia But EA is not Nintendo so that's not the wisest comparison to make. It's easy to say that, but look at the outcome of Retro Studios and especially Monolith Soft.
Before Retro Studios, Rare was handling the Donkey Kong franchise whilst Metroid was developed internally as a handheld series. Rare was bought by Microsoft whilst Metroid was not n the highest development priority list for Nintendo. Once they gained Retro Studios as a subsidiary, both Metroid and Donkey Kong continued to be relevant to consumers through Retro.
Now where do I begin with Monolith Soft? The company was started by Tetsuya Takahashi, with funding by Namco as a response to Square treating Xenogears as a second fiddle project. Once the Xenosaga series no longer became profitable for Bandai Namco, they decided to give the majority shares to Nintendo because Bandai Namco no longer seen value in the company. Nintendo expanded Monolith Soft though Xenoblade Chronicles, and Nintendo seen enough value in Monolith Soft to open a second studio (the Kyoto studio) to expand their brand awareness. Monolith Soft wouldn't be as valued as it is now if it wasn't for Nintendo subsidising the company into the brand.
@AlphaJaguar Not just EA. MS as well.
Retro was a great happenstance from an interesting time. Though arguably, a lot of talent there has already left and formed Armature, and I imagine the same pattern that happened to Rare is taking shape. Not that they're not a great studio, but they're certainly changing directions. That's a hard success to duplicate though. Monolith was unique in that they were a studio comprised mostly of the foremost experts in crafting one of the genres Nintendo had an almost complete absence of experience in: RPGs, in a local location near HQ, and the ability to crank out content Nintendo needed to fill a hole, and a tried and true production system to do it, and brought with the a generalized IP umbrella in terms of the Xeno "brand"
Tantalus has no expertise or specialty in terms of creating very large game constructs in genres Nintendo is deficient in, and no major background in running a full project start to finish on their own, and no IP construct. They're a fine studio, but there's nothing Nintendo needs to own them for that they can't hire them for. Their main specialty appears to be contract work, which is a great specialty, business-wise, but not something Nintendo needs ownership of.
You can't own the synergy of a studio. The talent leaves the new ownership, every time. Rare emptied out before Nintendo sold it to MS (and finished emptying once MS got it), Retro is partly emptied into Amrature, the same would happen here. Monolith is a special case, they were used to the corporate ownership from the start from a worse owner, and most of them were former Square guys, so it was all an improvement.
@G-Boy Didn't they let Rare do Donkey Kong Country in the 90s?
@impurekind I re read the paragraph, since I didn't remember reading that it took 18 months to sign anything. From what I got from the paragraph is that it took 18 months to complete the game, from start to finish. And the word sign off being used, not in a literal term where they have to write a written note and have people sign it, but more in a respect to Aonuma-san, due to his position and the game being his.
It's as if Kobe Bryant randomly decided that he's going to drop by the Lakers practice even though he doesn't play for the team any longer. Of course the people who work there are going to let him through, he "signs off everything."
Cool. Even if the framerate problems are annoying for such an old game, they did a good job.
Nintendo should bring them on board permanently as their official remaster developer. Get started on Sunshine, Mario Galaxy and Xenoblade next.
@HenFjo I would prefer a HD version of Super Mario 64!
@impurekind And here's someone who either didn't read or didn't understand the interview, and doesn't understand game development. He didn't say it took them 18 months just to get approval, he said the entire process of adapting the game to HD/porting it to Wii U took 18 months. He said the approval process took "several months". That could mean anything from like three months on.
More importantly, he wasn't saying it took several months to just "get approval", as in they asked for approval and then just sat there waiting several months, doing nothing. He was saying that, from the time they were approached by Nintendo and given the project and then began the process of technical experimenting and prototyping and refining their prototype further and further (which is a ton of work, which he said Nintendo themselves were involved in), all of that took several months until they got their technique to the point where they were given the final go-ahead to start work on the official build proper. They already knew they had approval to work on the game because, like the interview specifically says, they were approached by Nintendo and offered the project.
So yeah. Not a very good comment from you, but that seems to be your thing.
The problem I had with TP HD was its price. Why is a HD remaster of a 10 yr old game $50 when Bayonetta gets released on PC @ 60 fps and 4k support and only costs $20. TP is a good game but I don't think most people expect to be paying full price for something that is a decade old.
@impurekind
Listen here, you frickin' frick!
@j-life Yes, but Rare was very special.
@BAN What, so it maybe took around five, six, seven months then; that's how I would interpret his "several months" comment, otherwise I'd expect he'd just say "a few months" if it were any less than five months. Same f'n point! It's absurd how long it takes to get the ball rolling with stuff like this, and it still goes to my point about why we never see stuff until it's almost so far down the line as to be a little bit pointless by that point. Like, how f'n long does it take to give us an English translation of Mother 3 for example? The point I was making was ultimately about how long-winded everything seems to be at Nintendo; and that point still stands as far as I'm concerned.
@impurekind Who knows what he meant? "Several" could mean anything to this guy. It's not really important though. What's important is that he said it took 18 months to finish the game from the time Nintendo approached them with it, and that's an acceptable turnaround. And it's not "just getting the ball rolling" as you put it. It's designing the ball, finding the best materials to build it with, manufacturing a prototype ball, filling it with air, and testing it extensively before the ball can actually start rolling.
You're taking issue with Nintendo taking their time to do their dilligence so the products they make come out of the gate in a state of high quality and functionality. The alternative is rushing products out just to meet an arbitrarily tight schedule or satiate fans, and the results of that strategy are usually broken messes, which gamers would absolutely hate even more. Nintendo have been slow and meticulous pretty much the entire time they've been making video games, so you should be used to it by now.
@BAN "Nintendo have been slow and meticulous pretty much the entire time they've been making video games, so you should be used to it by now."
Not when it takes several months just to get things rolling.
@impurekind Am I talking to a robot or something? Are you having an error of syntax or logic here? Or is it just that you've only been programmed to say the same thing over and over regardless of input? Because I've definitely explained this in a way that makes it abundantly clear that the thing you keep saying is not an accurate representation of the reality of the situation as described in the interview referenced in this article. So I don't understand why you keep repeating the "it took them forever to get the ball rolling" line. It's making my head sweat.
@BAN You don't get it because you don't think that taking several months for an already proven and port-experienced developer to get approval to work on an HD port of an already fully complete game is forever and I do; it's that simple.
@G-Boy Because everyone who has a different taste to you must be a "soccer mom"...
It's called mainstream for a reason.
@MadAdam81 Stuff like this is censored because the writers don't want to be sued by American soccer moms, not because they're afraid that people have a different taste. For example, Viz Media censored Dragon Ball because a mother told them to.
@impurekind The only thing that's simple here is you, if you think it's as easy as that. You just don't know what you're talking about. Ask any developer- hell, ask even the most casual of game development enthusiasts- and they will tell you as much.
@BAN I never claimed it was simple to get whatever thing done; I claimed it was that simple how we see things differently.
@G-Boy If you have material aimed at 16 year old and turn it into a product for 10 year olds, some changes need to be made.
@MadAdam81 What are you talking about?
@G-Boy Most popular US versions of anime aim it at 10 year olds so obviously changes are needed for this new vision.
@MadAdam81 But the original isn't aimed at 10 year olds, and that is clearly the issue with this article. Not even the game is aimed at 10 year olds.
@crouteru That would absolutley suck. I already have both games on the wii u, and if they published it now, it would be a waste of my money. Maybe they can give a huge discount to people who bought it already?
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