
Super Mario Run launches on iOS this week, an event which not so long ago would have been totally inconceivable to the average Nintendo fan. Nintendo's slow but steady embrace of mobile has certainly generated column inches in the gaming world, and to push the release the legendary Shigeru Miyamoto has been doing plenty of publicity - including a new interview with Glixel in which he covers a wide range of topics.
Naturally, working with Apple is one of the big subjects covered. Many see Apple as the company which has gatecrashed Nintendo's portable party; prior to the success of the iPhone and iPad, gaming on the go was almost exclusively done on handhelds like the Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS, and Nintendo has seen its share of the portable gaming market diminish alarmingly over the past few years.
However, rather than feeling bitter about the whole thing, Miyamoto seems incredibly excited about getting the chance to work with the famous firm, and feels that Nintendo and Apple share a common philosophy:
Glixel: What's it been like working with Apple? How did the partnership for Super Mario Run come about? They're supporting it a lot more than they usually do with individual games.
Miyamoto: The timing was really fortunate for both of us. On the Nintendo side we'd been talking a lot about going into the mobile space but we hadn't decided that we were going to make a Mario game for smartphones. As we were talking about what we were going to create we started asking ourselves about what a Mario game would need to be. So we were experimenting with some things and we came up with the base idea, and that's what we eventually showed to Apple.
Part of the reason we took it to Apple was that in order for us to have the performance we wanted we needed some development support to ensure that the game would run the way we expected.
Because Nintendo is always trying to do something unique we also wanted to try and do something different on the business side too. We really didn't want to do something in the free to play space, but in order to make sure we had the opportunity to do what we wanted [offer a taste of the game for free, and charge $9.99 to unlock the whole thing], we had to talk to the people who are actually running the shop. Naturally the people on the App Store initially told us that the free-to-play approach is a good one, but I've always had this image that Apple and Nintendo have very similar philosophies. As we started working together, I found that to be true and they became very welcoming of trying something new.
It's always seemed like Nintendo and Apple have some similarities in terms of the way they look at product and audiences. What do you see as that common ground?
Probably the that easiest thing to point to is the fact that Apple, like Nintendo, is a company that thinks about how people will use their products. We design things to be usable by a very broad range of people. They put a lot of effort into the interface and making the product simple to use, and that's very consistent with Nintendo. I think Apple also likes to do things differently and take a different approach. In the early days when computers were very complicated things, computer companies were purposely presenting them in ways that made them seem very complicated. Then you had Apple who came along with their very simple and colorful logo and it all had more of a fun feel to it.
Actually, this reminds me that with the Super NES controller we put the multicolored buttons on the face of the controller, and then the US office decided not to keep that. I told that story to Apple, and how I liked the use of color in their old logo. That was like a bridge that had been built between us.
Their focus is always on simplicity. Their focus is always on really taking the user into account, making it easy to use and then having an environment that's safe and secure that people can work and play in. They're the areas where Nintendo and Apple really see eye to eye.
For Nintendo, we have a lot of kids that play our products. It was important for us to be able to offer Super Mario Run in a way that parents would feel assured that they could buy the game and give it to their kids without having to worry about future transactions. From early on, I thought that Apple would be a good partner so we could work on this new approach.
Given that Mario is his most famous creation, it's fair to ask if Miyamoto is tired of the character yet. However, that doesn't seem to be the case:
I kinda of look at it as if I'm running a talent agency, and I have all these different people that when there's new technology and we're doing something new with it, I always choose Mario to be the one to represent it. Then, if we have something else that's maybe not quite the right fit then we choose one of the other characters. That's usually how I approach things with him. Also, we've always evolved Mario's look – so we try and keep him fresh.
Finally, there's that thorny topic of retirement. Despite muddled reports a while back, Miyamoto insists that he has no intention of hanging up his boots just yet:
There was a misunderstanding around my supposed retirement. Really at the time what we were talking about was giving more opportunity and more leadership opportunity to younger people in the company. So rather than me leading everything we were really expanding that role out to others that had come up within the company. Somehow that got misinterpreted as the fact that I was retiring.
We have these younger people in the company who are taking the lead on Switch development and it's really been them that have put this forward and designed this system. They're the ones that have really shepherded it through the process. Because of that, what it's allowed me to do is focus on other projects like Super Mario Run or the Universal theme park. I'm going to keep looking for these kinds of opportunities where I can do something new and fun.
The full interview is well worth a read. Let us know what you think about Miyamoto's comments by posting one of your own below.
[source glixel.com]
Comments 48
Is it a good or bad thing that he's not considering retiring soon? Yes he's responsible for some of Nintendo's biggest franchises. But lately? I do not want to see games like Star Fox Zero again that's for sure. And he's been farting around with horrible projects for years, like Project Giant Robot. Just let it die already.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I'd say a good thing. Star Fox Zero had to be done how it was. To really try and make the most out of the dual screen setup. To push it really far. Otherwise Nintendo may have looked back at Star Fox as a missed opportunity. The control setup has been seen as under-utilised as it is. They needed to make the most of it where they could. The controls on SF Zero do take some getting used to but I think it was a solid effort.
@MikeW https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/12/random_store_employees_buy_wii_u_for_teen_who_visited_every_day_to_play_smash_bros
"It's always seemed like Nintendo and Apple have some similarities in terms of the way they look at product and audiences. What do you see as that common ground?"
Well, on an iPhone you can't install stuff on your phone without going to the AppStore, and you can't put an mp3 file on it without checking iTunes... write your own punchline here.
What did the girl on the left say??
Always use multicolored buttons, Nintendo. Always.
@dew12333 That hussy needs to get her hands off our Shigs!
I really liked what he said about similarities between Apple and Nintendo. Concentrating on fun experiences is the thing that makes me love Nintendo. And the fact that they don't want a Free to Play is really a good idea for parents. I cannot believe how many parents there are that cannot control how their children make transactions in games. So, I do like the idea behind SMR and hope it will come to android soon.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE It's a good thing.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE star fox zero was just another star fox game. Old school and linear. We all wanted something more, and what we got was it's controls, which I personally loved. I will always go back to replaying that game just like why I have star fox 64 on my 3ds. It's a fun game to just sit down and beat once in a while.
Also, Nintendo, don't forget that parents of those kids play games too...
Yes, Nintendo and Apple are very similar. Making things easy and simple but fun is their niche. Some will say they are the same because they like to overprice their product... I say they don't really care what other thinks, they do things their own way.
"For Nintendo, we have a lot of kids that play our products. It was important for us to be able to offer Super Mario Run in a way that parents would feel assured that they could buy the game and give it to their kids without having to worry about future transactions."
So they made it online only, b/c parents just love when their kids have to be connected to the internet all the time to play a game.
@rjejr When it arrived at the Google store, this game will be free, offline playable and fully unlocked at all the apk sites. This is why Nintendo was reluctant to put their games on Android.
Animal Crossing next!
This game will be worse than free to play, I bet it will be paid to unlock the basic game and pay for the new worlds dlcs .... this game has the potential to be mario's most expensive game ...
Apple seems to be moving away from simplicity. I hope this is a huge success for Nintendo. I don't think it'll effect their Switch efforts at all.
@rjejr No doubt the internet connected thing is going to cause issues with kids here and there. I know my son will be annoyed. He's used to setting up a tether to play Pokemon GO with us, though. Cellular data is not as bad as it used to be (at least for us on our plan).
For the pricing plan, overall, I'd love to see it open up a place for developers who want deeper experiences on mobile devices to price their game without all the f2p trappings and race-to-the-bottom pricing. That market is quite the behemoth to change, though, so it's dubious.
I was kind of heartbroken when my own game that I was developing before the App Store launched eventually had no place to fit on the store. I had to keep reengineering it and I never released it. That's why they call it the bleeding edge I guess. (Man was that fun though.)
(Did you ever see my game? It's not for sale and never got released so this is not an ad or anything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c7xDyTJK7Q )
This partnership is sort of a dream come true for me - for the past 5 to 8 years I've followed blogs for exactly 2 companies: Nintendo and Apple. For better or worse, they're 2 tech companies with the most devoted fan bases, and these fans speak of a sort of "magic" the companies possess.
@NintyFan I thought the same thing. Nintendo is wisely handing some control over to younger people who have probably played many more of the popular "core gamer" audience games and have important sensibilities that some of the trailblazers at the company don't have. Super important to stay relatable and at the same time gain so much from Nintendo's approach as well. It bodes well for what I want from Nintendo going forward I think.
I want Miyamoto-heika to pass on as much of his knowledge as he can. I know you can't pass on talent but his experiences and guidance will be invaluable in molding the new guard. I'm gonna be a wreck when he retires though.
@jbunker7 Yeah, I follow these companies closely as well. Apple since the Apple ][e and Nintendo since the NES. Shigeru Miyamoto is spot on in not only what makes the companies similar but what has made them special in the past. In both cases, other companies have followed their lead and now consumer tech offerings are impressive from many of their competitors. Companies like Google, Microsoft, and individual game studios compete quite well in many areas and both Nintendo and Apple have had growing pains with the success and the growing of their companies. Tragically, they both had visionary leaders pass away early and unexpectedly.
Even with all their similarity it's interesting to note that Apple has a history ranging anywhere from apathy to disdain toward video gaming.
I eat inv the Apple store today to play super Mario run.. I have to say, it was polished, fantastic, fun. And addictive. Easily worth the asking price. Easily.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE
I think Miyamoto had some impossible tasks that he may have even imposed on himself with the Wii U. Star Fox Zero is undeniably flawed as a product (and disappointing some very deeply) but it was inventive and for some quite strangely wonderful. That's what happens with risk takers and experimenters and we need them. His tasks were divided as he took on a more managerial role and then tremendously so, I think, when Iwata passed and he was looked to for some leadership.
The part that I think some overlook is how invaluable a high level experienced creator like this is. Don't forget to add up all the stories from Western collaborators where he challenged them in fundamental ways that dramatically improved games. He seems to be continuing this with the internal teams, challenging them to takes risks. They don't always pay off and fans get miffed, but those are the ones we tend to remember. In a time of frustrating Wii U performance those stories are bound to be in the spotlight.
It's worth balancing the view of Miyamoto, in my opinion.
So, Nintendo reached Apple with the question "what technology should we use to get performance on mobile?" and Apple replied "Unity 3D". That's the story. Great marketing for Unity!
Sounds like they are rolling in the bed already, wich is bad. Also: Miyamoto's high days are behind him, and Starfox Zero is a disaster!
@aaronsullivan I liked your game, pity it never released. Reminded me of the Skylanders mini-games and puzzle solving.
I do think SMR at $9.99 could mark a sea change in app game pricing. But it isn't going to happen overnight. But as console games get cheaper and cheaper, a bunch of free games on Sony and Nintendo consoles, it only makes sense that mobile games would start to go up in price from the 99 cent days. But w/ the thousands of clone games on mobile - endless runners, jumpers, match 3 - it will take something like Mario to make a game stand out.
I do think a convergence is coming. 15 years from now every smartphone will be a Switch but stream wirelessly to TVs. All you'll need at home is the bluetooth controller. And I also see a place for VR instead of tvs. A world where everyone is Geordi LaForge. Have you been keeping up w/ the Intel VR headsets? Built in external cameras so we can see objects in front of us if we get too close. Future scares me.
I wouldn't be tired of Mario either. He's literally what has made Nintendo Nintendo. He's absolutely iconic. And I don't just mean in the gaming community. Easily top 5 one of the most globally recognized characters across any genre.
@Clownshoes
I asked for a fun punchline, though! Rework it into a joke befitting your username!
@Squalid the game is already expensive enough, Nintendo actually wants people to buy it you know
He ain't retiring because Nintendo will go under when he goes.
Anyone notice Xavier Woods in the background from #WWE #UpUpDownDown ?
I feel like Nintendo should take a gamble and see if they can license Castlevania and give us a Castlevania on the Nintendo Switch.
Nintendo shouldn't learn from Apple, even if I have an iPhone (that I have not used in 2+ years to take a break from social networks).
@Xaessya I don't think they would as long as he's trainning future talents. Don't wanna end up like Studio Ghibli(sp?). Idk where they are at this point, but I remember reading all the rumors that it was closing down after Miyazaki retired.
Gotta swoop in with my obligatory "Thanks for ruining Paper Mario Miyamoto, stay as long as you like" comment.
That is all.
@spawn1210 Yea, I caught that. I had to do a double take lol. Xavier rocks.
We have these younger people in the company who are taking the lead on Switch development and it's really been them that have put this forward and designed this system
Well that explains it. I think we can all agree Switch looks uncharacteristically sexy and sleek, and gives off a totally different vibe than Wii/Wii U/DS/3DS ever did.
As for Miamoto... look. I know I've been hard on the guy, usually when I get worked up over a bad decision. But overall, I'd hate to see him go. Pikmin 3 was a masterpiece, and I know Pikmin 4 will be too. But I trust he's passing on his wisdom and knowledge to younger folks who can carry Nintendo into the future.
Heck, just look at Splatoon and now Switch. I think we're covered.
If the Switch is any indication I am glad Nintendo is letting the younger crowd take over more of the reins when it comes to designing games and the new console because although the old guard have done well in the past I feel like the younger team has a better idea of what people want in this day and age. Shigeru will always have a place at Nintendo but that seems to be more of an advisory role nowadays, and I'd say it's paying off.
@3MonthBeef That's an oversimplified view of the situation. Xerox PARC was all R&D and had great ideas but couldn't funnel them into anything very useful. When you compare what they had and even what they developed into a product to what Apple did with the Mac it's quite obvious how much the Apple team contributed. It shaped what GUI interfaces became just as much as PARC (and they even paid for the use of the concepts.)
10 years later after Microsoft had seen the same thing (they also visited PARC) all their attempts were clumsy until they basically aped Mac OS with Windows 95. (I'm not discounting the tremendously better things Microsoft accomplished internally in the OS while Mac OS began to lag). Part of that is due to Microsoft hoping to shift development over to Mac (believe it or not. I think Bill Gates is still ticked off that Apple sold the Mac for more than double what he was hoping/expecting) My point is only that Apple should get plenty of credit for ushering in the GUI.
Besides, if you want to see where it started it's sort of astonishing what Doug Engelbart was thinking back in 1962 and demonstrating in 1968. http://arstechnica.com/features/2005/05/gui/2/
@samuelvictor Yeah, it is sad. I hope to get back to it one day. Back then there was no game engine for iOS because it was new to everyone. Had to be all native and using Objective-C and OpenGL ES. It was a steep learning curve but I enjoyed the entire process immensely and leaned a great deal so it wasn't a total loss. Still, it is sad that no one can even just play it. Thanks for the kind words, though!
@samuelvictor I consider it just about every month. I'd love to share it.
@3MonthBeef Haha. Yeah, I went overboard on the reply. Nothing against you, I just like to fill in the nuance and hopefully it's interesting to some. Too many blanket statements about things make me edgy.
@rjejr In 15 years, I hope that augmented reality through lightweight glasses and fast, fast communications wirelessly allow for us to have these things without being sucked in and isolated. Rather, we can share large interactive or recorded experiences w/out a TV because it will be visible in front of everyone who has these glasses. Again, importantly, it will be easily sharable so it is "existing" for everyone who participates in the same area.
Seems attainable in 15 years and we'll see plenty of things approaching it in 5-10 I'm guessing.
The biggest trick is getting the necessary data back and forth from the glasses as a speed fast enough. Then, you can carry the system that powers it in many different ways.
@aaronsullivan "it will be easily sharable so it is "existing" for everyone who participates in the same area."
"The biggest trick is..."
The biggest trick is getting an area people want to share. My overly screen dependent family can have all 4 of us sitting in the living room 2 on the couch 2 on the loveseat and all of us looking at screens and we're each in our own little world. My wife has Facebook and match-3 games, I'm on Nintendo Life obvisouly, my oldest son likes looking up Dr Who memes or playing Pokemon, my youngets like violent glitchy side scrolling games or Pokemon. Occassionally somebody may ask about dinner o rhomework or laundry, butthere's no real interation.
So what bothers me is once we each are doing that in VR w/ headsets and headphones we won't even be able to see each other, we'll all be in our own little world, for real.
Now I realize the rest of the world probably isn't as screen addicted as we are, and a lot of people sit around like that watching TV, I miss family hour w/ the Cosby's and the Keatons, RIP Alan Thicke, bu tI'm afraid good VR will lead mor epeopel there.
Have you seen all of the tv ads for VR headsets? They're on almost constantly - I don't watch a lot of tv shows, but I watch a lot of football this time of year. Seems like almost every commercial break, spanish kids and old men on the street or a white family celebrating Christmas - I notice ethnicities, sorry - are using VR. But here's the thing I really notice in ALL of those commericals. Every single one. And you're smarter than me so if you've seen them you've probably noticed too - there is always 1 and only 1 headset, no matter how many people there are. And the conspiracy theorist in me thinks it's b/c these companies selling them know if they show a living room full of people or a street corner full of kids and they are ALL wearing headsets and ignoring each other, thats going to freak people out like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
I think Reggie actually for once in his life had something right when he said Nitneod wasn't focused on VR, they were focused on family living room gaming. (He didn't exactly say that, I'm giving him a lot of leeway.)
So yes, VR is coming, and I've used it and it truly is a wow experience, and I look forward to us getting one some day. But I also look forward to robot maids and butlers, until Skynet has them rise up and kill us all. (I really wanted that to be Planet of the Apes, but I've never wanted a full grown 800 pound gorilla walking around my house taking knives to get them sharpened. Who didn't see that ending poorly?)
@gb_nes_gamer Ah, a positive review. Let me soak this energy now before it's all gone.
@rjejr I hear you on VR. I'm much more bullish on AR because it can be a directly shared experience and it will differentiate that way, I'm guessing. Still, getting multiple sets will be cost prohibitive for a long time even if the technology gets in a good place soon.
You are totally right about the VR ads. As soon as you show a family using those it immediately looks like a sci-fi movie about a dystopian future.
Our family has that issue occasionally but I can see it getting worse. I see why you might like board games, too. I bet that is one of the better ways to get your family to interact, right? Is for ours. That's how I imagine AR working (Hololens but improved over iterations).
@rjejr
Oh, and I should have added to the above post: Nintendo better be partnering with someone or doing their own expensive cutting edge research into Hololens-style AR because they are the perfect company to pull that off content-wise. It could be Wii all over again, but entering the market at the right time will be very hard to do... and we know Nintendo isn't too great at timing.
@aaronsullivan I saw that family VR ad on TV again and I have to apologize to the developers as they did a better job at ethnic diversity than I had originally given them credit. The one outside w/ the Spanish kids and the old guy still seems like a bodega scene from "Do the Right Thing" but the family morning Christmas covered the spectrum, made me happy.
Oculus and PSVR may be expensive, and I don't know about the HTC Vive commercials or whatever I've been watching, but $20 VR headsets for smartphones are all the rage everywhere this holiday. Google cardboard got the ball rolling. I was going to pick up a $5 one at 5 Below today for my youngest but I couldn't find it in store, just bought some gift bags, my kids are wrapping now.
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