I may spend my days writing about Nintendo and related topics, but I've had a fairly limited engagement with the global phenomenon of Pokémon GO, in comparison to its biggest enthusiasts in any case. I've probably expended more energy looking at download statistics and the ups and downs of Nintendo's share value in relation to the app than actually catching Pokémon. I've downloaded it, played it a bit, and spoken about it a lot.
Interestingly, when playing it and watching others play it I thought the gameplay loop was pretty simple. You go for walks, maybe travel a little, always keeping an eye on the app for Pokémon to catch or Pokéstops to visit. You level up, gradually fill out your Pokédex and curse at yet another duplicate popping up on the screen. If you're really keen you may meet with friends or join groups organised by Facebook; I've seen GO walks setup by friends on social media that have attracted more than 100 participants.
I admire that side of it, the social possibilities and the exploration it can encourage; though hopefully sensible exploration from the majority. That was the gameplay loop in my eyes - elements of chance that encourage more exercise and travel than normal.
Tellingly I, probably like many of the tens of millions that have downloaded the app, am not a big player of the franchise. I've made this confession in the past, and my name will never be on a main-series Pokémon review as a result, but in any case that makes my attachment to the IP's games likely similar to a majority - or large part, at least - of the GO audience. Perhaps that's where my interpretation of the gameplay loop comes from: I see an AR-driven game and consider it an addition to my routine, a continuous activity to dip into occasionally.
Yet for those that are big fans of the franchise I understand it's more than that - it's a real-world interpretation of adventures they've been enjoying for years. GO isn't a fun little game to mess about with while out and about, it's a full-on video game, with objectives, levelling and a win-state - filling the Pokédex. The fact that exercise and exploration are part of the process is welcome, but certainly plenty of players will be treating it as another full Pokémon experience, a game to be played properly.
That, it seems to me, is at the core of the current debate swirling around the app since a weekend update and separate shutdowns that were potentially initiated by Niantic and Nintendo (primarily the former, but Nintendo has also been cited). Pokévision was a 'mapping' site that used the app's API to mine its data and show what Pokémon could be found in a given area and for how long. It was effectively mining the app's internal data to share with the world, allowing players to easily look up which 'mon could be found at a location of their choosing. That service, and some others that were doing similar things such as showing details of Pokémon's strengths and so on, was been closed over the weekend; takedowns are the logical reason this has happened, and were strongly implied by Pokévision itself.
Even if formal legal means weren't used, it seems Niantic has also been cracking down on usage of the API and choking off access. In Niantic's defence, doing that may be a means of stopping unofficial apps from sucking the life out of servers by excessively grabbing data, contributing to the stresses of keeping the game running smoothly for millions of players.
Moving on, those closures have also aligned with the major official weekend update that disabled the battery saver mode on iOS (ouch) and also took off the 'footprints' feature that hadn't worked properly, an in-app tool supposed to make finding 'mon easier. Combine that update with the shutdowns, and you get threads like this on NeoGAF and elsewhere.
Whether the likes of Pokévision were formally shut down through legal means or merely threatened with consequences for staying online, sizeable and vocal online communities have expressed plenty of frustration. Apps like these, enabling players to target and track Pokémon they want to catch, had become an inherent part of the experience for some. As highlighted above, one interpretation of how GO is meant to be played made these tools a necessity.
Niantic, though, evidently doesn't agree - company CEO John Hanke said the following to Forbes not long before these unofficial apps and services went offline.
Yeah, I don't really like that. Not a fan.
We have priorities right now but they might find in the future that those things may not work. People are only hurting themselves because it takes some fun out of the game. People are hacking around trying to take data out of our system and that's against our terms of service.
There are two key points out of that. Hanke, on the one hand, interprets the 'fun' of the game rather like the gameplay loop I see when I play the app, as an occasional player who's not a big Pokémon gamer. He also references Terms of Service, which are undoubtedly broken by unofficial apps that use GO's data without permission.
On the latter point Niantic has the right to enforce its Terms of Service, and that appears to be what's happening. Yet as I've argued in past cases, such as with Nintendo's over-zealous policing of monetised YouTube content, what's legally justified isn't always 'right' in the broader sense. Because you can do something and the law backs you up isn't always the same as the correct business move.
In taking away tools like this - or being perceived to have done so - Niantic has angered what is, to be blunt, a vocal minority. But, that group is important, as they likely represent part of the most solid and reliable userbase the app can have for the long-term. Long after fly-by-night dabblers like me have deleted the app and moved on, dedicated fans and enthusiasts will still be coming back for more. A majority of 'casual' players are unlikely to know or care about unofficial Pokémon GO trackers and so on, but they're also less likely to still be playing in a year's time when there are 600 'mon to catch and the app has evolved further.
Keeping a core of players engaged is the long-term challenge for GO, and shutdowns of popular unofficial apps - combined with ongoing shortcomings in the game itself - will turn some off. A hugely popular Reddit post concisely lays out the depreciating interest apps like GO suffer if they lack key features or close down useful workarounds.
Pokemon Go went from a game that I go out to play, to a game I play when I'm out, to a game I never play.
Niantic, like Nintendo and some other companies and developers, seems to want consumers to play the game its way, and appears willing to rigorously enforce its Terms of Service to make that happen. Yet it should beware embracing the viral nature of GO's success in the one hand and pushing against it with the other. GO is so popular because tens of millions of gamers are enjoying it in different ways. By evidently alienating and frustrating a portion of players committed to completing their Pokédex and mastering the game, Niantic is - in part - going against the inclusive principles that allowed GO to take off in the first place.
Ultimately, Niantic has the legal right and ability to target and shutdown unofficial apps, and manage how we play Pokémon GO. Yet it should use that authority with a light touch - a mass audience embraced the app and made it one of the biggest (perhaps the biggest) mobile sensations of all time. That same audience can also walk away if told it's having fun or playing the game 'wrong'. After all, apps get deleted as quickly as they're installed in the throwaway economies of iOS and Android.
Comments 73
What's the point of hunting if you already know where it is? shrug
I still go out to play the game and hit Pokestops a few times a week, but I don't actually HUNT down any specific Pokemon. I just hope that if I see something interesting on the nearby radar that it just shows up. I liked to have Pokevision open in a tab while I play other games and just check it every once in a while to see if there was anything cool around my house, but I guess I can't do that now.
There wouldn't be so much grief and salt if the radar worked in the first place.
Because the main feature of the game - and the main source of the fun and reward from the game - was broken and later removed, people turned into 3rd party tracking sites.
Those who live in the cities have easier life as a pokemon will pop eventually. But imagine being in a rural area, where the nearest to you spawning spots are ~1,5 mile away radius. You would have to walk (or rather: run) 4,5 miles if the first spot didn't spawn a pokemon. I doubt you will make it to the second spot on time anyway so there is no reason to catch the pokemon at all. You may as well try camping at one spot, hoping for a good spawn (note: in rural areas there very few Pokestops to put Lures too!).
With pokevision you could learn the spawning spots quicker than by trial and error (people will learn those anyway), and judge the distance and see if you can make it. Without walking blindly and wishing for luck.
I can see how it could negative impact the game, but in my opinion, as long as the in-game radar is not fixed, they should leave the radar/tracking sites live.
Personally, I've tried to avoid using these tools as much as possible, only using them to scout an area out before I go there, so that I can at least have some idea of where to look.
I think what they should do is convert them into a more fitting footsteps substitute... if they can obtain the nearby Pokemon locations, then they can easily calculate the distance from the user's location, so why not drop the map and just give a list of distances... almost identical to how the footsteps were supposed to work. If anything, Niantic would probably appreciate that, as it would allow them to focus on getting other parts of the app working first.
I've done okay without the help of a tracking sites. So I'm not too torn up about it. However, I also acknowledge that Niantic has not been really clear on the science of how tracking works. So I can see why some would use the extra help.
Niantic- thinks the fun of playing Pokemon Go is walking in the wrong direction of an Electrode until it de-spawns
As a player from day 1, I had to turn to Pokevision since it was frustrating not having any tools in the game to track Pokemon down. It was great when it worked at the start. Now it's very frustrating seeing something that you want in the list and knowing that a few weeks ago, it was possible to get it by using the game's tools. Ok...off to the app store to give the app another 1 star rating.
Some thoughts:
1. Nintendo seems to get blamed, even though it is a minor partner in this (remember its announcement regarding the limited impact the game has in its financials and the ensuing drop in stock price). We have the Pokevision developer saying "Niantic and Nintendo" — it may have said "Niantic and partners" or listed all the companies.
2. Could it be the third-party data mining led to the radar glitch?
3. Could it be Niantic is going to sell its own version of Poke-radar? (This is what happened with third-party Pokedexes).
4. I never could get the Pokevision to work properly for me — so I am not even sure how reliable it was in all places.
Never used this service when I played PGo. Never wanted to. It does defeat the purpose of playing.
It was starting to ruin the game with so many gyms having multiple Snorlaxes. Hard to take out a gym and much harder to train. Those who didn't use and abuse Poke vision were suddenly finding it harder to get defender bonuses.
@Retron @meltendo try compass for pokemon. It's not blocked and only shows what's nearby in a way that still requires you to walk and hunt. It doesn't show you where all the rare pokemon are so many won't use it.
The recent update has brought a lot of negative changes to the game.
All forms of tracking being removed is stupid. The inability to track down the Pokemon you want in any form is clearly a move made by someone who doesn't like Pokemon themselves or doesn't understand why Pokemon fans like Pokemon, they are just random creatures to them (no attachment value being placed on Pokemon in Pokemon GO and them all being disposable was an ongoing issue with the game in the first place).
Other issues which have been reported, and I myself have experienced, is the catch rate being overall lower, the flee rate being overall higher, Pokemon being harder to catch in general. Despite increasing your trainer level at higher levels already needing millions of XP, Niantic seems to be deathly afraid of everyone capping out, the game no longer having progression, and everybody quitting the game. They should be more worried about adding features into the game that are entertaining, instead of making it even less fun to play because they are afraid people are progressing too fast.
@Dakt
If the removal of features really is an income issue for Niantic, and they are not making a profit, I've said it before but I don't understand why Niantic doesn't put (non intrusive) ads into the game. It would help the game pay for itself even if people are not making purchases. On top of the interviews and public statements Niantic has made about the game (in which they suggest they have no concrete direction for where they are going with the game, have no release dates for anything, and don't understand many aspects of it's popularity), it further bolsters my belief that Niantic is incompetent and/or terribly ill prepared to deal with or manage a game that is this popular.
@DarkKirby You really are overreacting and blowing it all out of proportion!
Pokevision was a cheat site! It was litterally killing the game if it were to continue.
People were progressing and catching Pokemon at an alarming rate!
More importantly, it's a F2P game, so Niantic has to make Money somehow through the cash shop to pay employees salaries and paying the hefty fees keeping all that infrastructure up and running! Amazon nor Niantic are a charity organisation! They are a business.
Pokevision was bypassing all game mechanics, data mining Niantic's servers, telling players exactly where which pokemon was spawning.
That is cheating the game! Pure and simple!
That the tracking feature is completely removed now, is the quickest response possible to shut down these sites.
Niantic has now to figure out how to make the tracking feature available within the App, without hackers being able to hack it and start abusing it again.
That will be tough for them, since Android is a insecure hackfest platform, especially when People root their Devices and do what they please. Same on iOS with jailbreak.
Niantic will have to figure out a way to detect this and being able to ban these Devices from the game.
@Jeronan So the alternative is no way to find them at all? They could have fixed the tracking system before disabling the API websites, they chose not to. Now the game has no gameplay function at all. You just wander around aimlessly? I don't think so, I've uninstalled the game and I'm going back to Alpha Sapphire while I wait for Sun and Moon.
@Alshain01 The tracking system was never working at all (foot steps).
And the app still shows which pokemon's are in the area! So NOTHING has changed with the last update in that regard.
Pokevision was litterally hacking into the Api and showing you all Pokemon spawns in the entire area and which ones, including rare pokemons!
Some People were hacking even further and managed to spawn Pokemon at home without setting a foot out of the door.
So this had to be stopped! I am more shocked it took them this long to finally shut it down. /shrug
So you going back to Alpha Sapphire. In that game you also know exactly where to find all pokemon? Without using any guide sites and online wikia's?
In all pokemon games you had to wander around aimlessly to find pokemon and you never know which one will jump at you.
That has always been the CORE gameplay of the Pokemon games.
So Yes! Pokemon GO exactly captures that same CORE gameplay. You have to walk around aimlessly and never know which pokemon will jump out. It still shows which Pokemon are in the area, just not how far away (as I said, it never worked anyway... so all they did was remove the broken feature of footsteps).
That is the whole fun of the game.
And if you are a bit lazy on one day, just pay a buck and buy some essences and let some Pokemon come at you.
That way, Niantic can pay people's salaries and upkeep for the servers at Amazon, as Amazon isn't a charity either.
I think when a developer says, "...it takes some fun out of the game", that's PR code for "it might hurt our revenue if Pokes are too easy to catch without our premium extras".
Interestingly, there's a correlation between how offended people are about the use of services that can be described as "cheats" and political persuasion. Those same services can also be described as "tools". It's all just in the interpretation.
Personally, I've never been that interested in Pokemon and I can't play Go anyway.
Well I tend to just use it when I'm out and about and going somewhere. Having a Dragonite pop-up walking through the park was quite exciting; can't say I'd feel the same if it was just there on a map for me to see and get if I so desired. This isn't a game you complete exactly and making sure there's always something for players to find is going to be key to sustaining interest. Otherwise they'd just have all Pokemon available from day one and you'd find one every few paces!
@DarkKirby They already do have non-intrusive ads in the form of sponsored pokestops, or if they aren't there yet they plan to add them.
@KTT Couldn't have said it better. Sites like PokeVision wouldn't exist if the in-game tracking actually worked (three step glitch anyone?).
i think maybe niantic doesn't quite get the mindset of dedicated gamers. it's like they wanted to tap into a casual market and assumed people would enjoy it so much they would stick around.
the gameplay as it stands isn't that much fun to keep people, and those who were willing to stay were those who didn't look at it as an amusing diversion in addition to their active lifestyles, but those who were committed to investing time and money to beat the thing. the only way to "win" is to catch them all. and for those gamers who already love the franchise, isn't that one of the end goals anyway, the very tagline we've heard for years? anyway, it's the same reason people want to find all the secrets in a game, beat every boss, talk to every npc, experience all the endings. and for really passionate fans, to speedrun, or to play with only one weak weapon or whatever.
in other words, many gamers like a sense of achievement. but if your achievement becomes less about skill and clever play and planning and strategy (like looking into the data and seeking everything out in this case), and more about impossible odds (roll snakeeyes 100 times in a row!, or just happen upon everything when you live miles from a stop or even spawns), that's just irritating.
i get why people are upset. and i don't really understand why niantic/pokeco/nintendo don't get it. rolling dice over and over gets old quickly.
as for me, i only still have it installed for my daughter to try when she's back from summer travel. the only thing to play against is gyms i'll never beat given trainers are double my level or more now, and given catching everything is off the table without devoting a insane amount of time, i would rather put my other (more interesting) games back on my phone. i had to delete so much stuff to make room for this thing.
I feel sorry for people that live in suburban and rural areas. Unless you live in a city (like I do), finding Pokemon becomes too much of a hassle. I've seen that some people can only find one Pokestop could be more than a mile away and that's just not worth the trip.
It's no surprise really and they have every right to have it shut down. The smart thing though would be to add the people that made Pokevision to the team and that way they can handle the tracking part of the game.
I honestly think though that the reason the removed the tracking portion was because to many people where tracking Pokémon and not watching where they were going.
I still confuse about this. What is Fan Made Pokemon GO tools ?
Is that hacked app like homebrew ?
Glad its down. I agree it takes the fun from the game. Play the game the way its intended. I'm doing fairly well, and I haven't used a tracker site. It exciting to have an unexpected Pokemon pop up out of nowhere. If this was a single player game, the "cheating" wouldn't affect anyone but yourself, great, go ahead. But this is worlwide multiplayer. It screws people playing it right.
@Shirma_Akayaku
Our closest Pokestop is about 12km from our house
And boohoo for you lazy people crying about Pokevision being shut down. It was just obvious cheat. And yes, it takes fun out of the game . But we want everything the easy way, don't we? Best would be that I could lay down on my sofa and catch them all without walking. Just like with my 3DS and other Pokemon games.
Of course you can say "no one forces you to use those".
When my cousin had me look up Pokemon Go on her phone (it's not there for some reason), I noticed all these apps. I knew it wouldn't be long until Nintendo would protest. Yeah, they're free but at the end of the day, if you're so keen on chasing Pokemon, just go outside. For me, the moment I caught my first Pokemon with the App, I felt like something was missing - actually training your little critter, which is my favorite part in any Pokemon game. I mean all I can pretty much do with them is look at them and feed them. It's really the social aspect of Go that gets so many people hooked, I think. At the end of the day, it got me back into AlphaSapphire so I guess that's worth something, right?
@Shirma_Akayaku I live in a small rural village, and I am level 16 and have over 60 Pokemon and I am maxed out on items and I haven't spent a penny.
I have zero issues with Pokevision being shut down and I can't understand all the whining and crying going on.
@Jeronan World and streets in games are smaller, and when you have seen a pokemon, you know exactly where to find it and usually you can get into that place in no time. What's more, those pokemon will never ever leave that spot (unless it's a roaming legendary or swarm/timed event or Feebas). Oh, and evolving is easier, most of the time, as well.
The closest to what GO can compare to Core series is Kanto's Safari Zone. Where there were few limited areas and you had only a vague clue what will appear (1% on Tauros), had a time limit, item limit, and where a chance of catching a pokemon was ridiculously small. Safari Zone was mainly RNG luck game, and so is GO now.
In beta the distance worked as meters (in the trailer you see similar way to measure the distance), they replaced it with footprints in full the release (which worked for about week), and then the 'bug' happened. And because they can't fix it easily now, they removed the feature entirely.
In other words, they wanted us to go outside and track pokemon in real life actively. Using the radar was the intended way to play the game, it was a feature. But since the tracking doesn't work, the app feels broken now. And people get refunds for that, because this is a valid point. They paid for something that turned out to not to be what was advertised.
I do not approve excesive hacking and spoofing GPS is shady. But without the tracking sites, the game cannot be played as it was intended to, right now. Tracking pokemon is fun, wild-goose chasing is not.
In 2016 people STILL oblivious to the fact you can't bandwagon some one else's property without permission. Sheesh. At least those responsible haven't thrown their toys out of the pram...even if a minority of fans have...
Truly "dedicated" players should want to play the game as it was intended to be played, not by activating cheat mode.
I think they should have at least fixed the three step system or preferably improved it before taking down Pokevision.
"People are only hurting themselves because it takes some fun out of the game."
I disagree somewhat with this. Players can decide for themselves what the most fun way to play it is. If players prefer to play it while knowing where everything is, then I don't see the problem with it.
However, if these tools are putting strain on the servers or causing issues for other players, then stopping them might be for the best.
I can fully understand Niantic's decision to shut down sites like Pokévision as it really does make the whole rarity of Pokémon and joy of finding something truly excellent a little redundant (but not entirely).
However given the fact that the in-game tracking system is currently disabled and has been for some time, these third party apps provided the tracking people needed in order to properly enjoy the game instead of just wandering around aimlessly hoping to bump into something rare they can see in their nearby list.
If the in-game tracker was working I'd be much more forgiving about this whole scenario, but given that there's no way to tell even roughly where a Pokémon is at the moment it feels very much like a rotten, selfish move.
@KTT Pretty accurate! Though if my house was the Safari Zone everyone would demand a refund unless they are nuts for Pidgey and Weedle.
I echo the same sentiment. If tracking didn't stop working, I don't think there would be near as many 3rd party tools to restore (perhaps too effectively) the core tenet of the game. Some programmer-types already illustrated that tracking can be enabled and done on the client (your phone) with only some minor modifications.
@Jeronan The tracking system worked for the first two weeks. And it was really fun, too.
"Pokemon GO exactly captures that same CORE gameplay"
No way man. In core Pokemon gameplay you KNOW you'll find a Pokemon inside a patch of grass if you walk around enough, and Pokemon actually correspond to the location you're at. In Pokemon GO they arbitrarily spawn corresponding to "historical cell phone usage" and whatever Niantic's climate systems are which they give you no details about. If there were marked areas on the map where Pokemon would ALWAYS spawn if you walked around enough, then yes, it would be like the core mechanic. But we don't have that, do we?
In the core games if I surf to the power pant I find electric Pokemon. In Pokemon GO, I only find electric Pokemon, if any Pokemon at all, if Niantic decided Pokemon should actually spawn there.
And in fact, ORAS has a working Pokemon radar with the DexNav.
If they come back with the beta version of tracking, with meters, then I'll get back into. But seriously, screw them for taking their ball and going home instead of just fixing their issues. I do admit though, that since pokevision was actually putting strain on their servers, then it was right of them to take it down. But I don't agree with the people looking down on pokevision users. The exercise portion was still there, and it also proved that the majority of the pokemon in my area are useless pidgeys or rattatas. So now I know even if I do aimlessly wander around, I'm not going to find anything good. It just showed how unfair alot of the pokemon distribution was.
And even the pokedex in the games tells you the general areas where to find pokemon. Maybe if they do something like that I'll get back into it as well.
But mostly I want actual distances, not this silly three paw away nonsense. Or at least a general direction to go with the three paws.
@Jeronan The tracking system worked for about a week. Probably before you started playing the game.
After it broke, Pokevision was the only way to really play the game. Now the tracker is both broken and pokevision is gone so there is no way to play the game.
In Alpha Sapphire you did not wander around the world aimlessly. You followed a rather strict path that you couldn't deviate from. This was true of ALL core games. Trackers were not necessary because there was always a Snorlax to block your path or an ocean and you without the Surf ability, and you always knew there would be a pokemon in the tall grass. They are two different game concepts, and Go MUST have a tracker or you can walk for hours and not find a damn thing. I did this right after the patch, 2 hours wandering around and I didn't even find a pidgey.
The game is now dead to me. It's clear Niantic doesn't have a clue what they are doing and even if they do fix the tracker, I don't want to get invested in a game they are sure to screw up again.
I'm sorry but I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is NO wrong in Nintendo, or any developer for that matter, in wanting to "control" their IPs and limit the creation of fan-made alternatives/companion software. Pokemon BELONGS to Nintendo and the Pokemon Company, not to the "fans".
Even as a youtuber, I don't care about not making money of any of the videos I post, I do it out of love to Nintendo, not to capitalize on their IPs.
@Alshain01 There is a thing called Pokemon Compass for Android. It works exactly how the radar worked and should work now. The only thing this software goes beyond GO's radar is showing the remaining time.
You may want to use it if you enjoyed the game, while waiting for a better official fix to come.
Then how come I played Pokemon GO just like always today without any problems?
Cought a bunch of pokemon on my way to work and back on my way home, without any issues.
The app still says which kind of Pokemon are in the area.
Pokevision was not a tracking site, it was an outright cheating site, hacking into the API and exactly telling you precisely where and which Pokemon to find and that over a huge area in your vicinity!
That site, along with other even more intrusive hacking sites/apps had to be stopped! It was killing the game. Period!
Niantic had no other choice then to remove tracking altogether for the time being, until they find a way to fix it and secure it, so it can no longer be hacked!
Which sadly is going to be problematic, dealing with a highly unsecure "open" platform like Andriod! /shrug
I never used any of these cheating apps or hack sites, so I do not notice any difference and continue playing the game like before!
The Pokevision actually made the game much more fun to play. The radar mechanic has been broken since it launched in the UK, and now with it's removal, the game is incredibly passive. You can't hunt Pokemon, but rather wander around and just see what randomly pops up. At least Pokevision introduced a bit of going specific places to catch what was nearby.
Whether or not you agree with it, this appears to have been a bad financial move. Lots of articles popping up on users getting refunds or how to get refunds.
@KTT It's more than likely that hack sites and hack apps like Pokevision helped overload the tracker feature and made it not work correctly in the App itself.
Niantic is now just scrambling to shut down these hacks and finding a way to both fix and secure the tracker, before bringing it back online in the app.
I fully understand the frustration for people living in rural low populated areas, but you have to understand Niantic as well, trying to protect this game and being in it for the long run.
Ingress was a low profile game that didn't got much exposure and as such hacking was less of an issue.
Pokemon GO got insane coverage, hyped beyond believe and blew all download records!
As such, this game is a high profile target for hackers!
Niantic has simply been completely caught of guard by the demand, popularity and the hacking into their Api!
Cut them some slack and give them some time to fix this.
I hated the Pokevision app starting at the pier in San Francisco, loads of pokemon I'd have to walk months to find.
Good riddance!
Pokevison or a working pokerader or something like that should be an in game feature. Where I live, the game is basically unplayable without it. The little box in the right hand corner is completely useless. I downloaded the compass for poke app. Something like that really should be an in game feature. It's not about cheating to find pokemon, it's about actually being able to enjoy and play the game. When you only have 5-6 Pokemon appearing within a square kilometre radius with no way of tracking them down, then what's the point?
I used PokeVision a few times. My wife and I are huge Pokemon fans and we're both looking forward to Pokemon Go. Then she got pregnant about four months before it came out. She's in her second trimester and, combine pregnancy and the fact that she has Lupus, she's got very little energy to do much, and definitely does not have the energy to go running around looking for a Pokemon that's probably not where we think it is. The best moments we've had with Pokemon Go since the 3-step Glitch started was using PokeVision to find her a Ponyta. Her favorite. We hopped in a car, took a five minute drive and a short hike in a nearby shopping center and found it, and she was so ecstatic. But now she doesn't play anymore and she's upset about it because Niantic removed all forms of tracking altogether.
I'm hoping they implement an easier to use tracking system soon. Or maybe for them to make the patches of moving leaves actually viable. I can't tell you how many times I went to an area that looked really active and found nothing, yet randomly came across Pokemon that weren't even on the Nearby list. Niantic is showing massive incompetence and I hope they use this massive amount of money they're making to hire some great programmers who can figure this out.
Otherwise this game will die before Gen 2 comes out, and that'll really bum me out.
Personally I love the apps like Pokevision that can motivate you to find certain Pokémon types you may never fins on your own. For example I saw a Rapidash on my street but half a block in the opposite direction than I typically go on my run. So as it would disappear after the 10 minute timer I quickly went to catch it, barely doing so after several unsuccessful tries. Near my office and home I only catch Pidgeys and Rattatas. It's nice to check before a run and know there is a chance, yes only a chance, of catching something unique if I divert slightly from my standard path. The rewards aren't garanteed, but they are motivating. On top of that there are many pokémon that pokevision wouldn't report on being out in the open but are still there. I think of it like a players guide in a way, you can go it on your own and complete part of the game or receive some basic guidance on an attack plan that rewards you with more experiences.
They're so stupid for this. Honestly, one of the most popular games of the last decade and they're going to ruin it for themselves just so they can feel better about how people play it.
You know what, if this game falls off the map because of what they've done, they've got no one to blame but themselves.
@bngrybt Try one of the real Pokemon games, without using any online guides and wikia's.
Then come back to me and we talk again.
I have sunk hundreds of hours in various Pokemon games and even With use of wikia's and online guides, I have been running around in Caves and tall grass areas searching for that specific pokemon I wanted for hours, days, weeks and gave up. Never found them. Simply because they are rare and you have to be extremely Lucky.
Hell, on one run through ( think it was Pokemon X ) it took me almost two days running like an idiot through high grass in same tiny area to get Pikachu, while my son got one within minutes.
Just to give you an example.
How you think People got around in the old games (before the time of online guides and wikia's) and find all the Pokemon they wanted huh?
Through community gatherings exchanging information and trading together.
That was the Whole purpose behind Pokemon and why it became so hugely popular back in the 90's!
It brought kids together, cooperate and help eachother.
/shrug
Pokemon GO isn't meant to be game where you catch all Pokemon within a week or even couple months.
It is supposed to take very long to try find and catch them all.
People are just hugely impatient these days and want everything handed to them on a silver platter with least amount of effort!
I remember (in my single days) playing games like WoW and run through the same Dungeon with friends and guildies for months to get that specific item I wanted.
Now today, everyone wants everything as quickly as possible and then start complaining after a month they have everything and there not being enough content in the game and quit out of boredom.
If Niantic left all these hacking apps and sites like Pokevision up and running, most People (especially those living in busy areas) would be done and bored with the game in a month, catching all the Pokemon they wanted and quit out of boredom.
Niantic can never win in this. /sigh
I agree that the footsteps tracking feature need to be fixed and put back in the game and I am pretty sure it will be. The removal of the Power saving feature is also highly questionable (but I guess that was tied to the tracking feature as well /shrug ).
But like I said before, Niantic just got caught of guard With how far these hackers went, mining into their Api to such an extend it was damaging the longterm survival of the game. More importantly, I wouldn't be suprised they overloaded the tracking feature and caused it to malfunction within the main app itself, seeing that it worked in the beginning before these hack sites and apps popped up.
So as quick stop gap messure they had to shut Down the tracking feature, until they find a way to fix and secure it.
So give them some time to fix it.
@Jeronan
One slight correction - PokeVision isn't even remotely close to a "hacking" application. It was just a site that visualized the response of the request sent to the Niantic server. Given you had a valid token for the Niantic API, and knew how the request was constructed, you could post it directly from your internet browser (with a proper client plugin), and receive a list of Pokemon, with their geographic location in response. I tried it once, but their servers were extremely unstable back then (4 identical requests resulted in two proper responses [200 OK], one 404 and one internal server error [500])
Plus the PokeVision JobID (a unique token, given for each visitor) only worked once per 30 seconds, so you couldn't just spam the refresh button and overload the PV/Niantic servers with needless queries.
These third party apps didn't add to the game whatsoever and only hurt it. I've been a pokemon player since Red & Blue launched and I still much prefer walking around trying to find pokemon, and it's not like duplicates are a problem anyway, you need to catch and evolve them to level up. If I want a specific Pokemon I either raise the respective egg and hope I get it or look around and hope I get it, as it should be. If I could look exactly where it was, go there and catch it, I could fill the Pokedex in less than a week, making the entire "hunt" worthless.
@Waninoko And how did he obtain that information? Asking nicely at Niantic?
And you only look at it from your own "single individual" perspective!
Millions of People around the globe were using Apps and sites like Pokevision, times that every 30 Seconds and you will get the picture.
That's millions and millions of extra requests send to these same servers on top of the tracking feature within the App itself, while the servers were already struggling to cope with the huge demand.
So no, I am not suprised in the slightest that it messed things up. Especially since Niantic was already struggling to stabilize the servers.
If you live in rural areas, you just have to accept the limitations of this type of games.
If you live, for example in Texas in the middle of the desert, with a single road, no Point of Interest, no forest and no water within miles in each direction.
Well good Luck, this game will not be fun to you and never will.
You can also forget them holding Pokemon GO events in a rural area.
Just like with Ingres, major events will be limited to a very few big major cities, like New York, London, Paris and Tokyo.
So unless you are extremely Lucky to be living in or near one of these major cities, you never going to get these Pokemon, unless they add a trading feature to this game at a later date (which I hope they will some day).
If you cannot accept these (technical) limitations, it's better you uninstall the app now, walk away and spare you the stress and frustration.
It's the whole reason I never played Ingres, as that game was even more Limited, especially since very few People were playing it (even in busy areas/cities here in Norway). It was just downright boring, unless you live in one of the most popular major cities in the world and preferably knew people who also play it.
@Jeronan
Well... actually, yes. You "ask nicely" by inputting it in the said request. It all boils down to saying "Hello! I am a [login] and my password is [password], can I get my token?" and the server responds "Sure [login]! Here's your [token]." And then you're free to do anything. Man, even the whole *.apk package isn't obfuscated in any way, so you can download it and revert it to the Android project and peek into the source code, to find some juicy things. Not the best approach to building applications, huh?
And my main point isn't about using PokeVision, it's up to you whether you want to use it or not - I'm just pointing out that you keep using the word "hacking app", which, in case of PV, clearly isn't.
@Waninoko LOL! I don't know what to say man.
He had to revert the Pokemon GO package and analyse the code.
That is reverse engineering !
He analyzed the code and inner workings of the game and managed to send manipulated requests to Niantic's servers to get the exact locations of each pokemon, which and where exactly it was spawning!
Information that was never ment to be available and visible to the end user! Only the app itself, behind the scenes need this information to tell you which pokemons are in the area and know when it spawn it on your screen when you are close enough!
So what he did was illegal. End of discussion! Hence, why Niantic shut them Down!
And this also clearly highlights the problems with Android. /shrug
It's going to be Challenge for Niantic to deal with this and find a solution to make the tracker work again within the App and keep these hackers at bay.
They probably will have to inevitably use some form of encryption and more complicated controls in requests to the server.
Time will tell if they have the expertise, resources and will to put that effort in it.
A Catch22 situation really, as it will also undoubtly effect performance on older and low end devices with older and low-clocked CPU's.
Even more so on battery drain, as the App is already draining battery like mad when in use. /shrug
@Jeronan
Yeah, so illegal even another mobile development company reverse-engineered it, mostly to point all the strange/juicy/pointless things in code. And even released it on their public blog!
https://applidium.com/en/news/unbundling_pokemon_go/
It was posted on 07.17, and still wasn't taken down. Hmm, so I believe they are filthy, filthy hackers as well?
@Jeronan
I've played every Pokemon game since red and rarely touch a guide. I played Zelda 1 back in the 80s making maps on graph paper. I get what you're saying, but this is a totally different situation. Pokemon go leaves you so blind that is is hardly worth playing if you live outside of a densely populated city. If you live in a rural or suburban area like I do, some sort of radar or map is necessary to make the game playable, unless I feel like traveling for an hour to get to the city. The Pokemon are just way too sparse.
@Waninoko Yes they are! They are filthy hackers and they have done a lot of damage to this game. They do expose the lack of proper Security within the app and that is on Niantic. But instead of exposing it and do even more damage, they could have contacted Niantic instead and keep it private.
That is why we cannot have nice things!
And you don't know if Niantic is already aware of this site and if they already send a request for removal to this site owner. These kind of requests can take time and cumbersome, since Niantic is in San Francisco, US and this site is hosted in France.
No matter how you try to spin it, reverse engineering a commercial application and exposing all the code is illegal! Period!
It also shows how scarily insecure Android is and how easy it is to do it and sadly also the inexperience apparently of Niantic, not anticipating this! /sigh
@bngrybt Like I said in a previous post.
This is sadly the (technical) limitations of these kind of games.
If you live in a rural area, with few roads, few Points of Interests and not much landscape differences. You never going to get much out of these type of games.
You cannot expect Niantic to spawn water type pokemon and grass type pokemon especially for you, just because you live in a desert environnment with no forests, lakes, ocean or any other water body nearby.
Big Pokemon GO events are going to be even more Limited to just few of the most popular cities in the world and where they get most Commercial value out of it. Like cities as New York, London, Paris and Tokyo for example.
If you are not Lucky enough to live anywhere near to these cities, you going to miss out on even more!
Tracking will come back within the app sooner or later, when Niantic has figured out how to fix it and keep the hackers at bay, that keep exposing information that should not be available to the end user.
@Jeronan it sounds to me like you are just being an apologist for Niantic with no room for open mindedness whatsoever. It's just just rural areas with few roads. There are toads where I live. There are parks. There are schools. There are trails to hike on, restaurants, landmarks, etc. I live in an area where Ingress was apparently not popular, and that is the only fault I have.
Anyway, there is nothing illegal about reverse engineering Pokemon Go. There's a difference between ToS and the law. Not my fault the original game is too sparse on features to be worth playing where I live. As of now, it doesn't deliver. End of story.
@bngrybt I am not an appologist at all.
This kind of detailed and exact information was never ment to be available to the end user! It was illegal and they got shut down! Period!
What they did now, was scrambling to get these sites and apps shut Down and the quickest way (for now) was to remove the tracking feature altogether, until they find a way to fix it and secure the Communications properly.
And yes, I can totally feel the frustration of people living in rural areas.
In the end it's just a game. Niantic is either able to fix this mess and we can happily continue playing for a long time to come.
Or, Niantic messes up even more, unable to fix it and Pokemon GO will crash and burn.
Hype over.... the end.
At least we got Pokemon Sun and Moon to look forward too ( and Yo-kai Watch 2.... whenever it comes to Europe that is ).
@KTT I don't think it's cheating, I just think there is two aspects to the gameplay, training and battling pokemon is one, and the other is finding and catching them. If the app tells you exactly where the Pokemon are, the finding and catching part is dead in the water. It's like if in the DS Pokemon RPGs, the Pokemon's sprites were visible in the long grass. You would just walk to the rare ones and walk around the rubbish ones, breaking the game.
I have had the game from day one and haven't used the footprint tracker at all (partly due to it not working of course) and I have over 100 Pokemon. If the tracker was working flawlessly and I used it every time I played, I would have caught them all in no time with virtually no effort. I think having to find them yourself adds a ton of playability, makes "the hunt" a fun part of the game, and makes a rare pokemon, (or any one you haven't caught) popping up a surprising moment, that feels just like in the old games when one would pop up in the grass, or even finding a rare trading card in a pack! It's a very exciting feeling that is intrinsic to Pokemon, and would be completely gone from the game if you knew where the Pokemon were, making it a generic collecting game.
It's also worth considering part of the reason they got rid of this feature may be trespassing. If you're stood by a wall, and it's telling you the Pokemon is on the other side, that could be construed as the game convincing you to jump over the wall. With people falling off cliffs and in front of trains while playing the game, Niantic will be trying to avoid any and all blame (rightly so). With the footprint tracker gone, it's your responsibility to look around with your own sense of logic, and if you trespass or jump in a lake, that's your own choice and not the games fault.
All of this is without even mentioning the server problems that come with the game having to check how many footprints away from the pokemon you are every time you move a few steps. Same with the third party apps, they are constantly checking the game servers for Pokemon movement and killing the servers for real human players.
I do appreciate some people prefer to be told exactly where to look, and I'm sympathetic that the game may be less fun for them now. But the footprint tracker, and even more so the third party apps, caused way too many problems to be considered feasible without a massive do over.
@bngrybt I hate it to break it you.
But if you tried Ingress before, which Pokemon GO is based on, made by the same Company.
Then you could have figured it out already that you (and other People living in rural areas) are not the intended audience.
With these type of games, big cities with lots of difference geography, tons of Points of Interests will always have a huge edge over People living in rural areas, With few geography differences, few Points of Interests, etc.
It's going to be even worse when they launch the big promotional community events, as they will be Limited to few of the biggest most popular cities in the world.
If you are not Lucky enough to live in or near any of those cities, you going to miss out on even more!
So if you cannot cope with these limitations, it's better to walk away now and spare you the stress and frustration, as it's not going to change!
Niantic is not going to compromise the game for millions of players living in big cities (their target audience and with lots of advertising and in-app Revenue), to appease the few that live in rural areas. You can forget that.
Its easy to see why this has been shut down! Not only does it use the Pokemon-name (IP infringement, you know how Nintendo operates. They don't have clean hands!), but it shows the locations. If someone decides to go through the entire country to catch them all, they imediately stop playing (I presume). And they want the people to keep playing, and doing lots and lots of micro-transactions of course.
I've played long enough to be bored. (Long story short, my gripe is that tying power ups/evolutions to a specific species candy instead of type candy means everybody has nearly identical teams of strong pokemon, and getting a rare pokemon is useless because you'll never have the candy to make it compete with your common pokemon.) Finding the pokemon I didn't have with Pokevision kept me playing. Now? Meh, I'm pretty done unless tracking gets significantly better. And if they're closing down Pokevision because they want to release a purchasable tracking device, I'm not interested.
The kind of people that uses walkthroughs on every game, they feel pleasure only to tell other people they beat a game instead of actually enjoying the game, with all that comes with it, getting stuck, exploring.. solving things.. For me this is a good thing.
@Jeronan So because of where I live, I'm not allowed to enjoy a popular game because a less popular game that was released 4 years ago wasn't popular here? That's just silliness. Niantic just needs to get their act together and make the game enjoyable for everybody regardless of where they live. They were ill prepared for the game's success and it lacks vital features, end of story. If a game is popular enough and lacks vital features, people will innovate.
@bngrybt Sadly yes! That is pretty much the reality of how this game works.
Have you any idea how huge the entire friggin world is?
The game is working with google maps data. Poke stops and Gyms are based on Points of Interest, designated by Google!
Pokemon spawns are based on geographical data type and for people´s safety limited to spawn in close proximity of (but not onto) designated roads and/or buildings by Google!
So if you live in a rural area with few geographical data types, few designated roads, few designated Points of Interests, few designated buildings(houses).... then yes, you will be out of luck and at a severe disadvantage to people living in a big city, that has all different geographical data types, tons of Points of Interests and tons of roads and buildings.
You really expect Niantic to build in all kinds of special exceptions for all the rural areas in the world, while even Google can´t map and designate every building, road and place on earth themselves? /facepalm
I sincerly hope you are kidding.
Let´s wait for the people living in the middle of the Sahara (example) to start complaining they cannot find any pokestop or gym and can not find any water type and grass type pokemons. /lol
PS. You could always go to Niantic´s office with a suitcase full of money and ask them to add a few extra lines of codes specially for your location to spawn a couple extra pokemon over there. Might work.
@Jeronan Do you even know the difference between rural areas and suburbs? You act as if I live on some dirt road in the middle of nowhere. The population here is about 45,000. Sure that isn't a city, but it is substantial enough that we have everything you have described. Obviously, Ingress wasn't very popular here. The problem is not population. If I can go for a walk and get 10 Street passes with no problem, I should also be able to take a walk and catch some Pokemon. The target audience is way more than just cities and people who played Ingress, or at least it should be. That line of thinking makes no sense. It is a failure of Niantic, and whether they like it or not people will innovate. You don't just tell potential customers to buzz off because they aren't the intended audience. You fix it. They could start accepting new applications for pokestops in areas where they are not located as densely, for example. Open things up. This type of thing should be fixable. You're just being stubborn for the sake of it when there are obviously problems that should and can be fixed.
@bngrybt Then you have to blame google for not having enough detailed info of your area. You can hardly blame Niantic for that.
I live in a big city with close to a million citizens and over half the buildings I would expect to be a Point of Interest aren´t even designated like that. That is on Google, not Niantic.
If I am out of Pokeballs and want them for free, I will have to take the metro to city center, where Google map data is most detailed, so there are lot more Points of Interest.
Like I said, they are limited to what Google provides and run their algoritms against that.
You really cannot expect Niantic to go to every single town in the world and check if enough pokemon spawn in each and every location.
You and me, we will be burried 10 feet under the ground by the time Niantic is finished and able to release the game like how you envision. It´s just not realistic.
All you can hope for, is for Google to keep updating and improving their map data and Niantic improving their algoritms in an attempt to make it better for people living in rural areas.
EDIT: And you seriously trying to compare collecting street pass coins on your 3DS to collecting pokemon in Pokemon GO? Tell me you are kidding and that was a typo? /facepalm
@KTT The vast majority of Poke stops and gyms were based on Google´s data.
If it was all on Niantic and all hand generated (which is impossible!), then why the outcry and protests with Poke stops and gyms on grave yards and other buildings in sensitive restricted areas?
Sorry, but Poke stops and Gyms are created through running an algoritm against Google data and Niantic later had to manually remove and fine tune the algoritm to exclude sertain (cultural) sensitive and restricted areas.
And yes, they opened up requests for new Poke stop and gym locations, but that is mainly targeted at businesses that are willing to pay for it as form of advertisement. Like McDonalds did in Tokyo for example.
The CEO of Niantic has recently talked about exactly that, as a means to generate extra revenue, so they can reduce their dependency on ingame App purchases by their end users.
@Jeronan pokestop and gym locations are entirely based on user submissions, not Google maps algorithms. Google maps has data for every church, park, mall, school, etc in my area, but there are very few pokestops and gyms because ingress was not popular. If I drive an hour to the city, every painted fire hydrant and electric box in sight is a pokestop or gym. This is entirely Niantic's fault for using user submitted data for a previous game, then denying user submissions for this one. It isn't directly based on population density, Google maps, or anything else. If it was, it would be distributed more evenly. This can easily be fixed.
@bngrybt Sure.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1434/view/news/read/40808/Pokemon-Go-New-Jersey-Homeowner-Files-Lawsuit-Against-Niantic.html
And all the sensitive building and buildings deep in restricted areas were also accepted user submissions. Etc. Etc.
I have relatives living in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere, but it has 4 poke stops and a gym there, because these buildings are designated and named in google maps as historical buildings/sites. I can guarantee you these are definitely not user submitted and hardly any pokemon are spawning there either, when I was there for two weeks. Didn´t see a single other sole playing Pokemon GO either, as most of them don´t even have internet or barely know how to use it. Mostly old(er) people living their now.
@Jeronan All that article means is that someone submitted his yard as an Ingress portal sometime within the last 4 years. It could have been a previous owner, or a kid walking by who thought the yard looked cool. It doesn't matter. Ingress had a much small community than Pokemon Go, so having a portal location in someone's back yard wasn't nearly as big a deal.
https://support.ingress.com/hc/en-us/articles/207343987-Candidate-Portal-criteria
These are the qualifications for have an Ingress portal location. They were user submitted. This has nothing to do with Google maps. Download Ingress and check it out. The portals match up 100% to Pokemon Go.
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