Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE is now out in stores and on the eShop in the West following a positive critical reception - we also gave it a strong recommendation in our review. It had an interesting development history, unveiled with few details as Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem before an extended silence led to fears and talk of problems in development. A Nintendo and Atlus venture, with the latter leading development, its final form ultimately seemed to be a diversion from what was initially expected.
Speaking to Siliconera, Shinjiro Takada (Producer at Atlus) and Hitoshi Yamagami (Producer at Nintendo) gave their perspectives on how the project evolved, in terms of its style and core gameplay.
Shinjiro Takada: At the initial stages of planning, we had trouble figuring out how to express the essence of both games. But then we set the policy of capitalizing on the strengths of Atlus, and decided on the basics of a modern-day RPG. We then picked the entertainment industry as something to differentiate it from previous RPGs. That set the general direction.
Hitoshi Yamagami: At the initial planning stage, we were trying to create an SLG (strategy simulation game). However, when we tried to create a strategy simulation game with characters from FE, it ended up looking just like the original FE, and it was hard to differentiate it. So six months into development, we changed direction, based on our suggestion to "think of an RPG that capitalizes on the strengths of Atlus". That is how the game system was achieved.
Takada-san also provided an interesting explanation for the alternative designs for Fire Emblem characters.
As a basic design concept, we differentiated them from the main characters depicted by toi8 by using the "other world" setting.
In this other world, the world of Fire Emblem, an ancient battle is still raging. That is the setting for this title.
So the design represents the result of an evolution over a long period of time, as they kept specializing in warfare, like machines.
They retain the elements of the original Chroms, but the design reflects expanded interpretation that goes beyond that.
The rest of the interview is worth a read for some other tidbits of information. It seems that the switches in direction and time taken on development were worthwhile in terms of game quality, albeit we're yet to see whether sales meet expectations.
Have you picked this one up, or are you planning to? Let us know in the comments.
With thanks to Benson for the tip.
It was obvious that it changed but we didn't know exactly when because we didn't see the game for at least 18 months after the initial trailer. And Fire Emblem very much took a back seat whereas it initially looked like it was going to be 50/50.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE How so?
That's very interesting I love it when games have a particularly fasinating development, I admire them for not giving up on the game and for releasing something so immensely Japanesey everywhere as well!
I hope very much that it exceeds their sales expectations because Nintendo and Atlus deserve to be rewarded for being brave.
The original teasers for the game used imagery of Flynn and Chrom, and seemed to be going with a medieval theme (like the beginning of SMT IV)
Needless to say, what ended up being shown was NOTHING like we were originally expecting.
@Squashy I don't think so!
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Yeah it seems unlikely for a game like this to sell well but I'll keep hoping!
SO pretty much it ended up being 10% Fire Emblem and the rest Persona/SMT with JPop stuff.
@Squashy he said beyond Nintendos expectations. That doesn't mean high sales. They might be stoked for 500k
Interesting story, parts of it were also mentioned in the artbook.
And overall it went as with Hyrule Warriors, with the initial project focusing on the Nintendo franchise up to the point to feel too much like a clone of it for then do a U-turn and bring a final result more in line with the serie "crossovering" with the Nintendo one.
In my opinion they did the right call, I'm really enjoying TMS#FE so far and it show that it had a long cared development, not a misleaded troubled one as the rumours were saying (and no, changing direction in six months doesn't count as a "problematic development", that's more like a "standard development" issue XD).
''At the initial stages of planning, we had trouble figuring out how to express the essence of both games. So we opted not to respect the essence of either of them for good size''
Bought this game yesterday, but have no idea when I'll be able to play it. Have a lot of games to play ahead of it, including a couple of RPGs. I just felt like it would be one of those games where the physical edition will disappear forever after three months and be on ebay for $80 plus.
@faint Don't see that happening. Remember all the chat around Star Fox Zero? That was a failure and has sold around 250,000. Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE is even more niche and caused its own controversies.
@faint Sorry who said beyond Nintendo's expectations? I was just saying I hope the game sells more than Nintendo expect however many that may be.
I think Nintendo made the uncharacteristic mistake of talking about this game too soon. They announced Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem before they or anyone at Atlus even know exactly what the game would even be.
They could have just announced a more vague collaboration with Atlus on an rpg and left it at that or waited until the game took shape and then announce it then. Because a lot of people had their own ideas of what Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem would be and when it turned out to be quite different from those expectations it created some disappointment for some people which didn't need to happen.
Never liked SMT games and I hate J-Pop so I guess this isn't for me. The title seems weird as well
Do you think this game is an okay first rpg? Never played any RPG, FE or SMT. Is it to hard? I think this game look really awesome!
Personally i would have preferred a proper crossover than what we got
@JetmanBlue I would have preferred if there was no J-Pop crap.
I was initially hoping that it would play like Fire Emblem since I hadn't played any Atlus games or many JRPG's for that matter. However I am personally happy with how this turned out and I think that the Fire Emblem part was implemented well. Session attacks are also really fun to use and I'm a fan of all the other FE elements in it.
@Alfonzo I think it's worth trying. It's not too hard but you can change the difficulty at any time. The only part that I find difficult is the "Session" system which allows you to have multiple attacks in one turn. However enemies can also do the same. This means if you're unlucky you could get a game over in one turn and have to continue from your last save. Healing items are cheap though so it balances out.
@Alfonzo -the game itself is bonkers but in a good way. RPG's aren't really hard as much as they require time, so if you want to put in the 50 hours then it is probably as good an rpg as any to "try" but there are a lot more standard rpg's that you could play depending on your systems. Personally I'm having fun with it but been playing rpg's for a long time
@SLIGEACH_EIRE and Bayonetta 2 broke a million.
@Kimyonaakuma @Gerbwmu Probobly gonna buy it then! Time isn't a problem, I have the entire summer for playing and drinking mountain dew!
@Squashy more than they expect would be beyond their expectations.
@Alfonzo That sounds like a good summer! Enjoy the game♪
@faint Bayonetta 2 was aimed at a Western audience and scraped to 1 million copies sold, it deserved better. TMS #FE was without question aimed directly at the Japanese market and failed miserably. Bayonetta 2 wasn't censored, wasn't overpriced, didn't deliberately withhold content to charge as DLC on the same day the game released and had real dedication and effort put into it right down to the costumes and various Easter eggs. It reviewed a good bit better too. Not a chance will TMS #FE reach 500,000, nevermind 1million. It'll be lucky to reach 250,000. It only sold 50,000 copies in Japan after all.
I'm happy they went this direction. Rather then just have a generic "Portal opens to another world that just so happens to lead to the other half of the crossover's world" they decided to try something new. It would have been a waste of time and talent just to make another war simulator, but instead they said now is a better time then never to step out of both of their comfort zones and reach out to something different. Is it perfect? No. But it's better then another Dissidia or Project Cross Zone.
It's not what I expected, but the game so far is pretty fun. I love the Fire Emblem references and the game plays like Persona which is awesome.
This game is excellent, and even though I'm one of the biggest FE fanboys there is, SMT and Persona are equally worthy. Having less of one and more of another is like having more gold and less platinum, or visa versa. Who cares- it's all fantastic!
Seriously great game though. Anyone shallow enough to dismiss the idol industry setting has obviously not played Persona 4, where Rise Kujukawa is an idol. P4 Dancing all night was centered around the industry. It's just a prop. There is gripping narrative and likable characters the story focuses on. In the case of #FE, the story just happens to involve an idol who disappears, whose sister joins the industry to help find clues to her whereabouts.
I'll be honest here- the game is truly amazing. It was nominate as best game of the year in Japan by at least one publication, and scored consistent 8-9/10 across the board in the west. On top of all that- I've played about 5 hours so far, and it is a really, really good game.
Is it good for a 1st RPG? Eh, I think if you want baby steps then the Mario & Luigi series- perhaps Paper Jam, would be best. But I say jump in head first and relish the complexity.
My first RPG's were Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy. Not exactly noob-friendly as far as RPG's go (although Awakening was a lot better than previous entries) yet I managed just fine.
There comes a time I think where you just gotta jump in. This game is as good as any... and better than most, in fact.
@Blastcorp64 Most Wii U games (same for Vita) don't seem to drop in value or go on sale, so that is most likely a solid stance to take at this point—with the 20% off that Amazon and BB offer being the cheapest you will be able to get in any decent time frame.
@faint Well yes quite I was just wondering who you were talking about with ''he said beyond Nintendos expectations.''
I'm glad the game turned out this way. We already have main line games in the Fire Emblem (Awakening and Fates) and Shin Megami Tensei (IV and IV: Apocalypse) series on the 3DS. This game is something new, fresh and exciting for the Wii U, even though it has the familiar SMT mechanics.
I picked up the SE yesterday and I'm not sure when I'll get to it but I wasn't going to pass, especially since it goes well with my Fates SE. I'm excited to dig into this and I like the fresh approach to both series.
@Oubie I like that its equally "wrong" to both franchises (obviously its very very atlus)
@abe_hikura Yeah that's what makes it somehow unique. I appreciate the game even more because the next exclusive retail Wii U game is in October haha!
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I get your complaints about the censorship (as minor as it actually is) and the DLC, but how is it overpriced or not have real effort put into it? It's a gorgeous, well-made, full-length JRPG; so it looks like they put quite a bit of effort and dedication into a game that easily deserves its full retail price tag of $60.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Content wasn't withheld for DLC. We know DLC came about after the fact due to its delayed release in Japan. We're just getting it Day One in the west because it's already done. We have to pay for it to maintain parity with Japan.
Also, it's hardly overpriced if the game is as good/long as the reviews say it is and there is clearly a lot of love put into it. You just have a vendetta against the game.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Same here, too much waifu
I think the change in direction was for the better. Despite loving SMT and FE, I have no interest in the crossover because those two games don't really mesh at all. The game it turned out to be is exactly what I enjoy however.
@Indielink So XCX should be €200 and SFZ should be €10?
The DLC released at the same time as the game in Japan. And what great effort did they have to do to release the DLC packs in the West? Besides removing 1 of them for fear it might scar our eyes. Atlus love DLC.
When I say the game is overpriced I'm talking about the Fortissimo Edition.
@Peach64 Demons in a medieval setting with ciberpunk elements is totally a good mesh. In fact, SMTIV's beginning is exactly that.
There was a lot of potential to be had in the actual combination of the two - main - franchises. Instead, we got Persona with a larger than usual number of idols. That is not to say the resulting game is bad because of it, but compared to what it could have been, my interest just doesn't hold up at all.
"Bayonetta 2 wasn't censored, wasn't overpriced, didn't deliberately withhold content to charge as DLC on the same day the game released and had real dedication and effort put into it right down to the costumes and various Easter eggs"
And Fire Emblem Fates had more content cut from localization and sold better than both games.
So let's stop pretending censorship aka 'changing a few outfits' is having any noticeable effect on sales.
And Tokyo Mirage Sessions has day one DLC, but it wasn't "deliberately withheld". That's just straight up factually incorrect. The content was DLC in Japan first, and was already developed. If you are in Japan, then complain, but we aren't, and the DLC- even being day one- clearly wasn't "withheld". Almost every game nowadays has day one DLC. You have to learn the difference between day one extras and actual cut, removed content. There is a difference.
And overpriced? Games cost $60. Last I checked this cost $59.99. That's called being accurately priced.
Please, people. Use your brains.
And the Fortissimo edition is only $20 more! Comes with all DLC, soundtrack and Artbook. And you say that's overpriced? Really?
That's the best bang for $20 you could ask for.
@JaxonH Use your brain please. There's a world outside America. Read what I wrote. Fortissimo Edition Fortissimo Edition Fortissimo Edition Fortissimo Edition Fortissimo Edition
Your post is so full of nonsense I'm fairly sure I'm wasting my time responding to you. It was deliberately withheld from being put on the disc so that they could charge for it separately. It's not like they released the game and then continued to work on the DLC.
All other Collector Editions in Europe for the Wii U cost no more than €65, most of them were €50. Then along comes TMS #FE Fortissimo Edition, nearly €85, so yes it is overpriced.
"So let's stop pretending censorship aka 'changing a few outfits' is having any noticeable effect on sales."
Never said it would. It'll be that and a whole load of other combined factors which I've stated some above and others in the forums.
"Almost every game nowadays has day one DLC."
It's a disgusting practise and is part of the reason why I'm reluctant to buy the game, more specifically the Fortissimo Edition. And I own most of the Wii U's Collectors Editions.
I'm going to stop now because like I said I'm probably wasting my time.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Bayonetta has barely hit 100,000 in Japan and xenoblade X has just hit 100,000 in Japan. Japan is not that big of a home console market for Nintendo any more. I never said it would hit 500,000. I just gave it as a reachable (imop) example. We will just have to wait and see.
Didn't think I wanted this but something tells me I might be missing out on another Wii U gem.. the temptation is growing I know I will eventually be diving head first into this and even though the poppiness would normally turn me off it just seems so well done and with flair. Hearing all this good about the battle system is convincing me too honestly.
You didn't specify until a later comment. Even so- read my above comment again, at the end where I specifically address the Fortissimo Edition.
$20 for all DLC, Artbook and soundtrack and you cite overpricing? Seriously? Let's check the price of most other LE that include $14 of DLC, Artbook and soundtrack and compare...
And you are wasting your time. I'm not very good at listening to nonsense like unwarranted criticisms and false correlations.
Tokyo Anime Sessions #BereleyFireEmblem
There's been a review? Must have missed that. For some catching up to do!
@JaxonH It's not $20. Here in Europe the extra content of the Fortissimo Edition costs nearly €40 more.
I bought the game not long after the Japanese launch and had a blast (actually still not finished). I'm glad that they went the route they did if only to keep the game fresh. If they had done a strategy rpg it likely would have turned into FE:Atlus Edition and quite frankly IS does fine on their own with that. There aren't a bevy of gods and demons in the FE pantheon so trying to leverage SMT would have likely been awkward. So that left persona from the SMT line to leverage. Given that persona focuses on individual changes/influences from summons it works well with the number and types (mostly non supernatural) of characters while the modern persona setting makes the FE characters feel supernatural by virtue of the difference in culture (modern vs medieval). It was a good design choice overall. And I've had the ost going on repeat for a while.
And no, day one DLC IS NOT a disgusting practice. It's a perfectly acceptable practice. Even to be desired.
CUT CONTENT is a disgusting practice.
The year is 2016. The time in between going gold and printing discs is long enough to develop quite a bit of EXTRA day one DLC. You have to learn to distinguish the difference.
@faint I don't think you get it. Yes, both XCX and Bayonetta 2 sold badly in Japan. But they weren't aiming primarily at that market. They were more Western orientated games.
TMS #FE was aimed primarily at Japan. It sold so badly that they half arsed the Western translation and hope it recovers some of the production costs.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Why not just get the standard edition then? I bought the standard edition Japanese version and didn't feel like I was missing much. Even with the NA Fortissimo Edition I bought I don't plan on using the dlc until I'm near the end of the regular game. You can still get a great game without the added expense.
@JaxonH Right, that's it! There's clearly no more point talking to you.
I don't have a signature but I may use part of your last quote to make one.
"day one DLC IS NOT a disgusting practice. It's a perfectly acceptable practice. Even to be desired."
"Costs nearly €40 more"
Ok. Maybe I'm wrong here, and I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm finding that a little hard to believe.
The extra cost in US was $20- a jump from $60 to $80. The extra cost in UK was £15. A jump £50 to £65
You mean to tell me the cost went from whatever the MSRP of games are in EU, let's say €60, to an increase of nearly €100?
If that's true then yes. I would agree. Can you link those prices so I can see?
@SLIGEACH_EIRE literly every atlus game has sold better in the us then Japan for the last six years except for persona. Pretty sure they aimed those at the Japanese market too
Again, OUT OF CONTEXT.
Day one DLC absolutely is perfectly acceptable! Make it your quote, you'd do well to remember it and maybe even educate others!
The only reason day one DLC was every criticized is because it's POSSIBLE it was cut from the game. But NOT NECESSARILY
Critical thinking. Use it. Don't be a sheep that just spouts ignorance. That's why I say use your brain. Why is day one DLC bad? Is it just bad because? No. It's been wrongly labeled as automatically bad but in reality all day one DLC is not bad. Some is, some isn't.
Has anyone actually bought the DLC and if so is it good? If it's not that amazing I'll just buy the ATLUS costumes.
I'd expect the DLC for this game to be like SMTIV's (Minus the Clipped Wings), where it just gives xp and money to those who want it.
Regular version of the game costs under £36. Fortissimo Edition costs £65. £29 difference. That in Euros is currently €36. Now bear in mind that difference was even greater and close to €40. But Sterling has taken a hammering because of the Referendum result yesterday. Also, those of us outside the UK have to pay for postage on top of that.
"Three pieces of Hot Springs DLC that was available for the Japanese version of the game are not listed to be released for the Western version of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE." - CUT
@Ryu_Niiyama I always try to buy the Collectors Edition and in some cases also a regular copy as well.
MSRP was £49.99 not "under £36"
And come on, did you really not understand we were talking about content being cut from the main game to be sold as DLC? Not extra content being "cut" due to localization and not sold at all. Just because they use the word "cut" doesn't mean it has anything to do with it
FFS! You're trolling! It's cut DLC.
Under £36. Who the F would pay Nintendo £50 when it's easily available much cheaper elsewhere?
Fortissimo Edition was only available on the Nintendo UK Store, Amazon and GAME a long time ago. All charging £65. You've no idea what goes on over here.
Hope you guys enjoy it.
I expected an actual cross over with two of my favorite franchises, this game looks no different than those weird Vita JRPGs that i wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, there's so many games to play... no need to force myself to play an idol game.
BTW this game was probably the biggest blunder of the gen in Japan, couldn't reach 25.000 copies on first week and never made it to the chart again, they'll never recover the money.
Right design choice. But maybe not the right business choice. I'm sure a worse game aligned with the entitled fans expectations would sell more
@Luceus pretty sure star fox tanked way harder in Japan
"Why is day one DLC bad? Is it just bad because? No. It's been wrongly labeled as automatically bad but in reality all day one DLC is not bad. Some is, some isn't."
I have to disagree with you. If the intent of DLC is to add additional content to the game to enhance the experience for a consumer, then it makes no sense why at launch it would be excluded for any other reason than to make more money off the game. It's content that could have very easily been left on the disc but is instead separated, forcing you to shell out more money to get the complete experience. In this case, the DLC had already been made and was available in Japan since launch, but they wanted to extricate more money from consumers and thus left it as premium content. This is why I am against the practice, it's the developer just inflating the price of the full game by taking content that could have been in the $60 retail release and charging extra for it. In some cases I could accept the argument that small developers need to make extra to cover their costs because of low projected sales, but Nintendo has ample funds to spare.
I'm not disagreeing they could have included it, but should they have? You're right, the purpose is to get more money. Which is precisely why it's not included.
It was develope in addition to the main game to gain additional income. Handing it out for free defeats the purpose.
But as long as it was developed in addition to, and not separated from, then there is no issue.
They "could" give all DLC for free. Doesn't mean they should. DLC has a sole purpose of additional revenue for those who so desire. Now, some developers abuse this and take part of the main game, remove it, package it up and sell. This is wrong. But when a game is complete, and they say ok, let's make some costumes and stuff and sell for a couple bucks on the side, there's nothing wrong with that. And it shouldn't be expected free regardless of when it's released or how long it's been out.
@JaxonH In Europe, Nintendo aren't allowed to fix prices. Most Wii U games launch under £30 despite Nintendo's RRP being £49.99. Tokyo Mirage Sessions has actually been one of the more expensive ones, with the lowest price of a pre-order being ShopTo with £34.
@Nintendude789 Already had this talk with you. And all you said was a bunch of stuff on how it's not fire Emblem while mention I'm doing this and that and ignoring the fact that it's a crossover
@Luceus just try it. I'm currently playing through it right now and I'm having lots of nostalgia from it despite the fact that it came out just yesterday. It feels like something that came out of 1990s Japan with its level of charm and attitude in the way it was made
Well, with that in mind, I would say just because someone is getting a good deal (lower than MSRP) for the regular game, that doesn't mean the MSRP for the SE is any worse of a deal. That's comparing apples to oranges.
Only way to compare is MSRP to MSRP. And if one is less by chance, that just means it's a good deal for the one, doesn't make it a bad deal for the other.
Not that you were arguing that point in the first place, but. Ya. Good to know.
@2xDair @SLIGEACH_EIRE Because in most cases Developers have to stop working on a game at a certain time, usually a month or two before release. In this time the game has to be tested for any last minute game breaking bugs or stop devs so they don't add or remove anything that can mess with the overall rating of the game. In the time before release and their next project, most designers or programmers are allowed to work on DLC stuff such as small area missions or clothing because this doesn't effect the base game and they can make some quick cash. Have companies abused this idea in the past? Yes, most definitely they have. But that doesn't mean it's inherently evil from conception. I think that's the point @JaxonH was trying to make
Yes, thank you for providing a little more clarity
I'm glad they went with something fresh I LOVE the game so far! The music, visuals and battle system are fantastic For me it has just enough Fire Emblem and enough Persona/SMT to be a fantastic cross-over instead of just a FE with different visuals.
Also: so many cute husbandos in the game.
@Squashy "I hope very much that it exceeds their sales expectations because Nintendo and Atlus deserve to be rewarded for being brave."
Yes, yes they do. Nintendo of America on the other hand deserves a stern lecture.
Too bad. If they had a clear idea what they were doing at the start the game would have probably done better.
It should have been marketed as a new IP from Atlus exclusive to Wii U...along with dropping anything FE related from the game.
@JaxonH Well said. I would say this is one of the best JRPG's this gen and a very much worthwhile game to keep me occupied while I wait for Persona 5.
@Luceus uh....it did pass 26,000 units in one week in Japan. And was modern sales if you even want to compare Star fox zero selling less then game or Megaman Legacy Collection selling 26,000 yet it was in 1st place of sales which fell ftom the list afterward. . Maybe because of the release date? Being sold on Xmas day? Where everyone already spent their cash on Splatoon and Mario Maker at the time? And there has been way less sold games in japan that barely even my 5,000 copies. Or even 500 copies so i wouldnt even call this game a bomb.
No, I don't buy this explanation from Takada and Yamagami. There must be something more to it. The Majin Tensei series back on the SNES was able to differentiate itself enough from Fire Emblem (while still looking somewhat similar at a glance) that it played differently. Also remember that there were deep seeded conflicts in the involved studio surrounding the ultimate direction of the SMTxFE project.
My guess is that the real reason they changed the direction was an order from the higher ups at Atlus to try to cater to the current big money sector in the SMT series right now, the Persona fans, and especially the Persona 4 fans. Sure, TMS has it's own story, but it was basically an attempt to establish a Persona like following on a Nintendo home console. If the sales numbers are any indication, that attempt crashed and burned hard, even in Japan.
It's ironic- If Nintendo and Atlus had worked together to try and create a supposedly less popular option in the revival of Majin Tensei, or something of the like, while adding a twist of Fire Emblem (or even the other way around)... Nintendo could have tried to appeal to their hard fought current crop of Fire Emblem fans, instead of tossing in something completely out of left field and hoping it would stick. Well, apparently it didn't stick, except with a few diehards; and it's Nintendo's loss, Atlus' loss, and the loss of the greater gaming public. (And also my loss.)
@JaxonH SMTIV had the post game content / bosses sliced out and sold as Day 1 DLC. I didn't buy into it myself, because I didn't and don't agree with such a practice. In fact, I've considered pirating the DLC. I bought the game when it came out at full price new for $60 (on a 3DS game), they don't need more money.
I agree with how CD Projekt Red does it- after a game or expansion pack is bought, any future DLC for it is provided free of charge in patches. That is part of being DRM-free, and not requiring authentication within a launcher (like Steam) or within a game itself, only at the storefront. Instead of punishing players for whatever the publisher executives feel is not forking over enough dough towards the publisher's treasury, CDPR rewards players for buying their games instead of pirating them.
If publishers bite the hand that feeds them, expect a little bite back.
@Uzuki That may be true to an extent if the content really was developed after the game was first released anywhere in the world, and it was a major addition. (For anything less than major additions, that would be violating the DRM-free principle of free minor DLC.) However, if it really is just cut out content that should have just been part of the game anyways, or patched in over time, then it's no more or less evil for them to sell it than it is for me to pirate that DLC so it would be in it's rightful place- at no extra charge on top of the full game I paid for.
@Peach64 Exactly. Thank you. @JaxonH hasn't got a clue what goes on over here. He's spouting SCutter crap from the other side of the Atlantic. No retailer ever sells games at the RRP of £50. Only Nintendo's Store and their rip-off eShop try to pull that $h1t.
And the Fortissimo Edition has been a nightmare in the UK and Ireland to buy. Hardly ever available and when it is its price has been about €85 delivered, slightly more in fact. Meanwhile on the continent they're selling it for €65, €70 and in some places €75. And yes that's €65, not the £65 Nintendo were asking for on their site. The trouble is a lot of those sites won't deliver to Ireland/UK or if they do any savings is wiped out by extortionate postal prices. I got quoted €36 for delivery on one site.
There's not a single shop in Ireland selling TMS #FE, nevermind the Fortissimo Edition.
@Hinaru77 TMS was a bomb by the more recent Persona's and the new Fire Emblem's standards. Just watch the sales of Persona 5 when it comes out.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Well, I learned a new word today...
Oh no you dont with that "thank you" as if a lower price of the normal game justifies your balogna logic
Lower price = good deal for normal game
Does not = bad deal for LE game
Jusy because some retailer somewhere in Europe land sells the normal game for less, doesn't mean the other is overpriced.
Get out of here with that garbage. "Jaxon hasnt got a clue". YOU don't have a clue. Paying less for A doesn't make B any worse of a deal. Just means you're getting a good deal for A.
@PlywoodStick Would that be "scutter"?
@JaxonH You're just cementing how clueless you are about Europe. It's not just "some retailer". They all sell way less than Nintendo's RRP.
With the Fortissimo Edition, in the UK it was only available exclusively through GAME or else through Nintendo's own store. You won't and never did find ordinary retailers selling it. Amazon's various European branches got their hands on small quantities of the stock and decided to cream the profit like Nintendo did. It turned up there once in a blue moon. 1 copy somehow turned up on the UK branch of Amazon and its price was £175. Even now on the European branches of Amazon if it does show up its asking price is €100+ now. This Fortissimo Edition is a scalpers wish come true.
Meanwhile over on mainland Europe, in Belgium, Netherlands, Germany and further east where it's more readily available, they're charging €65 -€75.
Stop talking now Jason, you don't live here, I do and I've been buying Nintendo games for decades. I own nearly all of the Wii U's Collectors Editions.
I don't need to live in Europe to tell you that game B doesn't not magically become overpriced simply because game A was sold for a better deal than MRSP.
You know it's true and so do I. And everyone on this entire site with any modicum of intelligence.
You're using hocus pocus logic to justify your ridiculous assertion that the Fortissimo was overpriced. When it wasn't.
It's simple as that.
Now, you wanna talk stock shortage? That's another topic. But as far as MSRP goes it was not overpriced. Even if the normal game was sold for $5 by mom and pop shop in Germany, it doesn't make the Fortissimo overpriced.
It makes the normal edition under priced
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Pardon my intrusion but your arguments on the pricing versus dlc content seem have conflated the issues you are trying to present. I think its because of the fact that with this being a UK based site you are unconsciously expecting everyone to understand how pricing works in Europe when it sounds to be quite different from the US for example. You are voicing a complaint against the pricing but that can't be held against Nintendo or Atlus since your laws don't allow MSRP enforcement. If the MSRP is 60/80 euro for the game (regular/ collector's edition) respectively but your local stores are using their prerogative to raise the price (or lower it) that doesn't negate or, if the price had been cheaper for you, raise the inherent value of the game or its extra content.
The equivalent in the US would be getting angry at Nintendo/Atlus for pricing on ebay since the seller can name their own price point. Does it suck? Totally, but it isn't a detractor from the game or the fact that it has day one DLC. At best it is an argument against stock shortage but even that doesn't automatically mean a cheaper price for you since your retailers have final say.
However you seem to be framing your argument as the game is over priced in general when the MSRP suggests its not. Shouldn't you be angry at your local stores instead? I'm not arguing against you either way but it is just how you are sounding to someone who deals with MSRP (and eventual markdown/sales) only. Which was why I originally suggested you just buy the standard edition...although you honestly sound like you don't even like the game due to the "jpop crap" anyway so I'm a little confused as to why you are upset in the first place.
Fair market value is already eatablised on a global scale. And it's in the same ballpark anywhere in the world.
When the regular edition is sold for less than market value, it's called being underpriced. Even if the game can be sold for less, the market value hasn't changed. The special edition has and always has been priced at fair market value worldwide.
You buy a $100 eShop card for $100. Fair price.
You then see someone selling $50 eShop cards for $40x
Does that mean the $100 eShop card was overpriced? Or does it mean the $50 card was underpriced?
I'll let you ponder that for a while....
@Dakt Your statement is wrong.
Zombi U had a development time of just over 6 months. As of the end of April this year, sales of the game were around 850,000 copies. At roughly £40 a copy, that equates to approx. £34,000,000.
Taking off publishing costs, and what they had to pay Nintendo, and Ubishafted still came out with a rather hefty profit. It was so large in fact, they even started making a sequel, but stopped after 2 months, due to low console sales.
@Ryu_Niiyama My complaint is with the Fortissimo Editions price and how Nintendo hasn't allowed fair competition. As I've previously mentioned all other Wii U Collectors Editions have been €50 with the very odd exception being €65(only Star Fox Zero Collectors Edition). Then along comes Fortissimo Edition and they want €85. I believe Nintendo are purposely restricting its availability so they can get as much money as possible. I think Nintendo are getting more and more greedy with their recent games. Does a game even come out now where there's no Collectors Edition or an amiibo collection.
Which would lead me onto another point. Nintendo are one of the stingiest companies when it comes to pricing of games. They charge crazy prices on their stores and eShop. They rarely have sales on their games and its years before they ever consider reducing a games price or introduce a Selects range.
Wouldn't surprise me if they eventually went digital only and then people will have no choice but to give them the full asking price.
Yes I hate JPop, Britain's Got Talent, The X Factor, Big Brother, Strictly Come Dancing, etc. They're all the biggest piles of $H1T€ going. The JPop in TMS #FE while not great is only its cosmetic setting. The JRPG goodness is what I'd be very interested in.
@akaDv8R Ubisoft said they weren't happy with ZombiU's sales but I don't see why because as you say it had a short development. I think the game performed well all things considered.
"have been €50 with the very odd exception being €65(only Star Fox Zero Collectors Edition). Then along comes Fortissimo Edition and they want €85"
Not all CE are created equal.
Xenoblade X CE was $90. FE Fates CE was $80. Fortissimo Edition is $80. Same price if not less.
Any "CE" selling for less than $80/€80/£65 probably only contained an amiibo.
You get what you pay for
@JaxonH "Any "CE" selling for less than $80/€80/£65 probably only contained an amiibo."
Star Fox Zero Collectors Edition = €65
Project Zero: Maiden of Black Water = €50
Xenoblade Chronicles X = €50
Not more fallacies.
Star Fox was a $50 game, for one, and the CE only included a $15 game. Hardly the same as a $60 game including $15 DLC, Artbook and soundtrack. And in fact that doesn't even qualify as a CE. That was just the standard release, supplemented by a $15 game so they could charge regular price.
Fatal Frame was also a $50 game and iirc the CE was priced at $70-80 retail. And Xenoblade X CE was $90. Proof positive that you were paying less than you should have, and thus the price cannot be used as the standard for judging other CE's.
You're probably the type that wins an iPod in a raffle contest, then complains the price isn't free on future models.
It feels a lot like the recent persona games, so I am having a blast!
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I have lost count over howmany times you have complained about the price, but why complain here? You might not like the price, but other people are willing to pay, Nintendo is a businiess so of course they are charging as much as they think they can and still get as many sales they think they can.
Don't like it? Don't buy it.
Hey I would sure love it if they massproduced collectors editionsand charged standard edition prices, and I do sometimes cackle like a wicked witch when I stores charge full retail price of Barbie games. But the only time I actually complain is if they charge full price on Nintendo selects titles.
@PlywoodStick Hell. It was A new Ip on a dying Console. (A console no doubt as it seems handheld are the thing in japan) And a terrible release date with barely any advertisement for that game. We are talking about Sequel to the well known Persona series. And on a PS4 for doubt which has plently if Install base. We know it going to sell more. Lol. Jeez. Why even compare the two? Did it not do amazing sales? No? Is it the worse selling wii u game? No. And we dont even know how well its selling here cause some games do better than others in different country. But i do know it selling pretty well. All i hope is that besides the sales for this game Atlus will still callabrate with Nintendo with more games.
TMS #FE Fortissimo Edition is €85. FACT! It was £65 on Nintendo's UK Store. Which currently is €80. Bear in mind, Sterling is ****ed since Friday. It was closer to €85 plus those of us outside of the UK have to also pay for delivery.
But I have been reminded now of Bayonetta 2 First Print Edition. I have it but cannot remember how much that cost. I think it was €80. That was a far better deal than the Fortissimo Edition. You got the 2 games, the Book of Angels and a mini artbook. The other double pack version, again I bought it, cost €55.
And don't mind the rubbish above. XCX Collectors Edition cost €50.
You have to wonder how much the retailers themselves are paying for the TMS #FE Fortissimo Edition. I have e-mails from retailers who've told me that the game is ~€58 and €70 inclusive of VAT. How can they afford to sell it so cheap and yet Nintendo who supply them with the Fortissimo Edition are charging €85?
So a little different than US, but generally speaking it's the same thing.
The issue truly is entitlement. I know a lot of people like to abuse that word and throw it around loosely, but this is a genuine case of paying less than MSRP enough times that one comes to expect and demand it. So that when a game actually costs what it should- what it costs everywhere else in the world, a person cries foul and plays the "overpricing" card.
I still feel betrayed. Even if the change in direction was for the better, and even if the game is that good, I am not willing to play the game... simply because this is not the Shin Megami Tensei × Fire Emblem game promised. While @Uzuki makes an excellent point on the generic 'portal war simulator' plot, I also do not want 'Persona Art Online'.
You are free to like or dislike, of course, but to say anything was promised? Nothing was promised.
They showed placeholder artwork of the 2 franchises and said there was a crossover. That's all. Anything we assumed based off that information cannot be taken as a promise.
I expected otherwise, but seeing as I love more than just Fire Emblem- seeing as I love JRPG's (especially SMT and Persona) I couldn't be happier.
And the game is fantastic, btw- unless you hate JRPG's of course. Just like how Fire Emblem games are fantastic, unless you hate strategy games.
@JaxonH I wholly agree with that. I really don't see how people were "promised" something that was clearly being shown to say they have something planned with these franchises. Now if it was something like the first 30 seconds of the Fe Fates trailer then I could totally understand, but all we got was generic stock image of various main protagonists.
@BensonUii I love proving you wrong.
Oh Noes it was €3.20 more than I said. EOTW!
"Fortissimo edition is 75€ MSRP on France Germany Italy Spain."
You mean Amazon? When it was there, and I stress when it was there because they must have sold a combined 50 copies between them. But when it was there it was €80. I know because I checked every day. And postage was roughly another €8.
@Dakt I would agree if vgchartz had been counting the stand alone sku but they haven't. They also don't count digital so I imagine their numbers are pretty close for these two reasons. They also undertracked France based on Nintendo of France's numbers. I doubt they are off more than 10k at this point.
Oddly, I actually like JRPGs and (to a negligibly smaller extent) strategy games.
...just not this one.
@Dakt and undertracked by 75k in France and they haven't tracked the stand alone sku at all and no digital numbers ect. They also adjusted the us numbers down around six months ago. Follow the comment section for the game.
I can't understand why people are complaining about the price of a game. If you can't afford it don't buy it but please don't try to bring everyone else down to your impoverished level.
@Martendo It's not about anybody being impoverished. Dreadful statement to make. It's about making a stand against a worrying trend of neverending boxsets and lack of competition on pricing. As well as asking for more on this Collectors Edition when it's been censored and they half arsed the translation. So they've done less work and want more money. That's not on in my books.
@MarkyVigoroth There was nothing promised other than a collaboration. And of course Persona is going to be somewhere in the mix since it is a part of shin Megami tensei. But Devil Survivor and Digital Devil Saga are also in the mix.
@PlywoodStick they presented it to Nintendo but they were rejected because Nintendo said that they would have made a fire emblem game themselves. The key word is Fire Emblem. The game with the weapon triangle another very specific yet iconic mechanics. Majin tensei was it's own thing and that's the catch. The same development team of TMS also work on devil Survivor. But those are some very specific games when compared to Fire Emblem who's core mechanic is rock paper scissors.
Also this is a crossover so you damn well know that Persona is going to be somewhere in the mix. However just because it's as colorful as Persona doesn't mean it actually is persona. The plot line is written much like the pacifist ending of devil Survivor involving an idol and music to save the world while the battle system is inspired by Digital Devil Saga.
Well, I'm glad the game is well received, it means that Nintendo and Atlus at least know what they were doing when making this game. I'm still interested in it, but I will forever dream of the darker sides of FE and SMT meeting one day in the future.
I'll get it eventually, but I'm playing through the Fire Emblem GBA and DS games I have in the VC first. Too much backlog!
The two games I've been playing most recently are this one and Persona Q, both cross-overs with SMT stuff, awesome designs, and superb turn-based battles. While I enjoy the original IP's they're based on for being pretty "hardcore", I find the cross-overs to be more fun because they're more lighthearted (still with the dark designs and themes).
@SamirMalik My point was that it's ironic... Nintendo/Atlus somehow thought the currently popular format of SMT, Persona (and especially Persona 4 style) was going to be the right way to go. Yet, if they made the crossover complete by making it more like a Majin Tensei than a Persona, and marketed it towards the huge recent uptick in Fire Emblem fans, instead of the almost nonexistent amount of Persona/DDS/DS fans who have a Wii U (probably instead either PS3/4 for Persona 5 and any possible future DDS type titles, and likely a 3DS for Persona Q/Devil Survivor/SMT4/Soul Hackers)...
I'm almost certain that the resulting product would have performed better, despite what the patented "Chart" says. Majin Tensei was similar enough in appearance to Fire Emblem, but different enough in execution, that it wouldn't have been a copy pasted Wii U Fire Emblem game to make a crossover in that vein. Why Nintendo understood that concept 20 years ago by letting Atlus create and publish not one, but two Fire Emblem looking games back then, yet not even one today, in the midst of a perfect storm opportunity, is baffling.
@PlywoodStick because it's called a collaboration. Sure Majin tensei may have something different from Fire Emblem but the problem is that the game was too close to Fire Emblem borderlining on a copy. That's the complaint and that's why they changed it.
Tap here to load 119 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...