It's hard to believe, but the rather lengthily named Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE is only a little over a month away from releasing in the West. The Atlus-helmed Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem crossover has drawn lots of interest over the last few months, simply due to the mystery surrounding the game. While it may certainly appear to be something that will only appeal to a certain demographic, it's still nice to see new, big budget game coming to the ailing Wii U.
Of course, like most games nowadays, the Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE will also have DLC, and the presence of some day one DLC may not sit well with everybody. Here's what will be available for purchase when the game launches on 24th June, and the last three 'Hunter' DLC will also be available to purchase for a slightly reduced price as a bundle:
- Costume Set: Get new costumes for Itsuki, Tsubasa, Touma and Kiria.
- Tokyo Millennium Collection: Participate in a fashion show and get extra outfits for Tsubasa, Kiria and Eleonora.
- EXPeditious Hunter: Battle through a dungeon filled with enemies that yield experience.
- Masterful Hunter: Gain materials used to level up weapons by fighting enemies in this dungeon.
- Savage Hunter: Defeat difficult enemies in this dungeon to earn rare items.
All of the DLC that was released in Japan will also be releasing in the West, except for the 'Hot Springs' DLC. This content was centered around several additional swimsuit options for characters, and evidently was deemed too inappropriate for localisation.
What do you think? Are you looking forward to Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE? Will oyu be picking up any of this DLC? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
but i want the hot springs dlc
If this was launched the same time as the Japanese version the I would agree. Since the game is launching much later it is fine, but in order to keep parity with the Japanese version, the DLC has to be released separately.
Since it's a localisation, it's fine. It wasn't day 1 for the Japanese release. I mean what are they supposed to do, hold back on the DLC just to say it's not Day 1 in the west? That's ridiculous.
Nintendo censoring all the games i want...... so sad
I still really wanted to support this game, but the Western versions are now a lost cause, as hinted in my profile picture. The localised change of Tsubasa's outfit in the 2nd dungeon was the final straw for me. I have already purchased the Japanese version.
@IceClimbers I agree, this is a rare case where the day one DLC actually makes sense. I mean, in a sense, it's not technically 'day one'.
Buying Day 1 most likely, but no DLC for me...
I'm honestly gonna call and complain to Nintendo, enough its enough regarding this problem, I can tolerate outfits altered but not content removed.
This has been bugging me. Is the game called Tokyo Mirage Sessions Hashtag FE or Sharp FE? Cause if it's the latter it should be called "Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE." Not "Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE."
It's worrying how many Nintendo games have DLC that allows extra/easier grinding. Free to play mechanics in a full price game!
@Peach64 Welcome to the generation of short attention span people that won't play a game more than 30min and then get bored. Or quit a game if they die too much or find it too difficult.
For me I first wanted that game but after seeing what the game turned out to be and it seems there's barely 5% of Fire Emblem content in it on top of the censorship just mad me skip it.
At least the week after it's release I will get Zero Time Dilemma and Star Ocean 5.
This game looks really weird, but I'm interested in it. It won't be a day one purchase for me, but I'll likely get it down the road.
So day 1 DLC, and we're missing out out on content that Japan gets? I wasn't particularly keen on this game when it was first announced, but I'm getting even less interested in it every time I hear about it.
@mmarkster it's sharp
i have no problem with the DLC but i dont think i wil buy it.it looks like a game i might enjoy because of the classic atlus gameplay but i dont think i will be a big enough fan to have the feeling i need it all.
Nanny state Nintendo, at it again!
It's not like they can stop people from watching it, just find it on Youtube!
I probally won't buy any of the DLC and would not have bought the hot spring either, so the fact its not there is not troubling me.
I usually only buy DLC that gives me more characters.
@Lizuka But try to think of the children !
Except that summer is around the corner, so lock your kids up inside ! Wouldn't want them to go to the beach or lake and see others in swimwear !
Ha ha at all the whiners. If you really want to play the hot springs DLC so bad go buy a Japanese Wii U.
I'll buy the game used. And no DLC. Day-one DLC is not excusable.
@ROBLOGNICK It's really entertaining watching you folks creating this narrative about "whiny pervs" ^^
I'm glad it is in no way signal boosting how morally "clean" you guys are
I'm glad that we are a community so accepting of other peoples opinions and that being against any form of censorship is a valid point still.
It's funny that it's still perfectly fine to be against it when violence and gore is cut. Quite telling don't you think ?
@Kosmo It's not Day One DLC, it's localized DLC already available in Japan!
Definitely annoying that this DLC list is confirmed to be "uncomplete", that PEGI 12 was really important I guess for such a niche game that will get no big advertisement and only fans will buy -w-;;;
Anyway I'll surely get the game soon or later and if I'll manage to buy the fortissimo edition day one than I'll automatically also get the DLC (else I'm not sure, they sound as DLC should sound, nice/useful, but not a must buy).
@Einherjar What else would be the desire to play this particular DLC be? What benefit other than watching questionably aged fictional characters in swimwear does the DLC provide?
@ROBLOGNICK Maybe its not about the DLC in question but about the fact that, again, stuff was removed / altered for the west ?
Maybe people are weary of this snowballing even more from dialogue to quest choices to costumes to even more drastic alterations ?
I dont know, just a maybe you people don't even consider, since your little rant against "these pervs" seems so much easier and morally sound.
If you don't have issues with altered content, more power to you.
But attacking others for their opinion on the matter ?
Yeah, certainly the mature thing to do.
Its FE Fates all over again. People mention the overall quality of the writing and you buffoons try your hardest to twist and turn the narrative so you can dismiss critical voices as "perves".
You don't hear me call you a conformist sheep do you ?
Are we going to do the whole "you pervs" talk again? Really? What more can be said that already hasn't been?
Cultural differences, the West is prudish, Europeans whine because they have other standards and are kinky and stuff, blah blah blah. Everyone's right and wrong at the same time. The end.
It sucks. It really does. It's not like any of the censored stuff is porn or something. And as people say "localization", many of us define it as "censorship". That said... does it really matter? I mean, sure, it does, in the end this mean Japan gets more content as usual. But... compared to the rest of the game, to what makes it an actual game, what's the point of complaining in the first place? The core game is still coming, and considering it's a crossover in which one of the halves involved is what never left Japanese shores before Marth and Roy revealed to the rest of the world there was one Nintendo franchise we never knew about... considering Marth and Roy could have even been left out of Western Melee copies (!!)... suddenly the very fact the game is being localized at all is a miracle. Sure, Bill Trinen worded the sentence as "Thank you for your patience", with "patience" implying localization was always on the cards, but that came after a year or so of radio silence. So yeah, we're getting the game and - as much as it hurts to admit it - we should be grateful, especially given the game drought on our beloved, if financially failing, console. When it boils down to the pro-censorship comments, "if you want that content so bad, buy a Japanese Wii U" actually kind of nails it. Is a Japanese region-locked console worth a missing 10% of a game we're getting anyway? If you say "yes", you surely have more money than anyone who considers a game console an investment, because that's what it is - an investment.
That said, stop lecturing the "pervs" who want the whole package. They also have the right to voice their disappointment. Complaints are criticism, and criticism is feedback. Which game companies need.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand ya guys got me, I wanted to keep it short and yet I wrote a lot of stuff again. Hopefully no comment-purge will wipe my tirade clean.
I had to laugh when I read the line "and evidently was deemed too inappropriate for localisation". So are they saying the japanese are a bunch of pervs or are we in the west too conservative.
I'm still mad there is no swimsuit stuff for the guys ; ;
Bring back swim shorts!
Not at all happy with nearly everything about how this game has been handled. Lazy port, censorship and day 1 DLC. And show me 1 place where I can buy the Fortissimo Edition in Europe? When I last seen it available, it was €85 delivered which is nuts. Do they not want the game to sell? It's a month away from release, it should be freely available for anybody who wants to buy the Fortissimo bundle. Not some helter-skelter limited availability pre order nonsense for an hour then nothing for weeks on end.
If you go down to the beach today,
You're sure of a big surprise.
If you go down to the beach today,
You'd better go in disguise.
For every woman that ever there was
Will gather there for certain because
Today's the day the women wear their bikinis.
By the way, that's a sign from the 1940's that stated that the wearing of a 2 piece or bikini was banned on beaches. Is this where we're still at with Nintendo? You go to the beach today and you see every age, every colour and every size of woman wearing bikinis. Should the real world be made cover up too? Outside of Japan of course. Keep reinforcing your public perception stereotype Nintendo. It'll do wonders for the NX.
I didn't call anyone a perv.
I haven't ranted but your long winded responses to me certainly are.
You can play the content that's been removed if you so desire, by importing, nothing is stopping you from doing that other than your apparent belief that Nintendo are obligated to give you something you want that isn't yours to begin with.
This is Nintendo's product and they can do with it how they see fit. It is not YOUR product. If you are unhappy with how they've altered it to what they, the creators, deem appropriate, then do as I have said above and import it, or don't buy it.
@DuckDodgers1989 Censorship is disappointing but to not buy a game simply because costumes have been changed is something I just don't understand. I could understand if entire sections of a story is cut but just changing a bikini bottom into a pair of shorts is hardly something to get upset over.
@Peach64 this is something Atlus started doing, that I know of, since SMT IV. I believe it's just another revenue stream for Atlus that the hardcore gamers don't need or are expected to buy, but opens up the game to even people that are not good at RPGs at all. I think it's fine as an optional add-on.
Huh, Etrian Odyssey Untold 2 had hot spring DLC no problem, which with Chloe's design would seem more inappropriate. So, is it because EO is more niche, or because of Nintendo's involvement?
Weird localization aside, I'd love to try this game. But I don't own a home console. If I there's an Atlus game for which I were to buy one, that would be Persona 5... Damn exclusivity.
@ROBLOGNICK I don't buy it, it's as simple as that really.
@Marshi It's a matter of principle, plain and simple.
As a consumer, you can only vote with your wallet. And it's not the first title that was altered that way.
So in order to maybe change that, people don_t buy these games.
Again, i find it shocking that people always try to make it about the specific content at hand and not about the fact that it was changed in general.
Many people don't like this appeasement policy BS, thus don't buy the product no matter how mundane the actual changes are.
Speaking of which, if these changes are so arbitrary and mundane, why make them in the first place ? Or are westerners really that insecure to warrant that ?
@Piersen Most certainly Nintendo's involvement. I mean, name a major Nintendo published title that hasn't been censored to be more "appropriate" over the last year.
It depends on which company we talk about. Jump Ultimate Stars and its predecessor were "a nightmare" to license in the West, but lo and behold, their PS4 spiritual successor came out in the West just fine, which raises more than a few questions. The word "gratitude" towards companies generally implies a consumistically doormat-ish attitude on gamers' part, which is also detrimental to the game industry as a whole - we could, theoretically, not voice our opinion and accept things as they are, but then wallets would be our only way to talk, and companies' approach would eventually become a matter of trial and error, meaning high risks with even higher, albeit merely potential, gain.
So yeah, actually, opinion is vital to the industry - in fact, we're even asked to voice ours! Why would you think Nintendo included a survey for every single game we registered on Club Nintendo, otherwise? And opinions have two sides: negative ones, such as the ones expressed here, and positive ones, which, even when jokingly stated ("Shut up and take my money"), sometimes border on worship, which by itself is something most of us Nintendo fans are (or have been at least once) guilty; regardless, it's all feedback. And yeah, while I admit I didn't know about Fire Emblem's western sales, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE's chances of localization (for the same reasons as Pokémon Conquest and Hyrule Warriors, all mash-ups) were definitely not to be taken for granted, hence my wording which included the (relatively tongue-in-cheek, and somehow metaphorical) concept of gratitude. No game has 100% certainty of localization, let alone a crossover (although I prefer the word mash-up in this case as the resulting game's continuity is pretty much its own thing) involving two series that feature Japan-only entries, so this is where the metaphorical use of the word "grateful" comes in.
@ROBLOGNICK It's been done to offer/include that kind of DLC to Europe and the US to "apologize" for the wait of localization. Especially cosmetic DLC. Given that the game won't even be translated into European languages, I consider it a minimum.
@AlexSora89 Which is why i find it even more baffling that they, again, fell into that trap of altering content for the west, something that got them quite a lot of bad press for several previous releases.
The title itself is already risky. The setting is questionable, the "mash-up" is vague at best and does cater more towards SMT fans than FE fans and we have censorship news again.
The latter could have been avoided by just embracing its over-the-top "japaneseness" to its fullest. You cant defuse its risque "pop idol" theme even if you cut out swimsuits and low-cut shirts...
"I'm glad it is in no way signal boosting how morally "clean" you guys are"
"I'm glad that we are a community so accepting of other peoples opinions and that being against any form of censorship is a valid point still. "
Please tell me you realize the irony in these statements?
@AlexSora89 They are right. I get sick of hearing how stuff has been changed when this practice is not new at all and has been going on for decades. If you want the most authentic experience then do not even bother playing it in English. Go buy the Japanese version and play it in Japanese.
@Wexter I'm not against modifying games in localization (for example changing names or ages of characters, cultural translation of jokes and references, nice looking "censored" versions of stupid looking "sexy" costumes), but something being done in a certain way in the past doesn't mean it couldn't be improved now. Wanting to have all the content Japan has, just localized is not much to ask.
Your argument remind me of this
@Piersen What I'm saying is this is not new at all yet all of a sudden this has been treated like some conspiracy. It's not new if you have a problem with it email Nintendo/Atlus contact them via Twitter. Like complaining in some forum will not produce change at all and this method I mentioned is more effective than boycotting which for a niche game like this will send a different message.
Yeah, that does it. Canceling my pre-order. Why should I pay $80 for a butchery when I can play an actually well-localized RPG in my backlog like Persona or Nep Nep?
Well too bad Nintendo. I totally looked forward to this game but you censored too much. Raising the character ages to 18 is localization, removing swimsuits it nothing more than censorship. I'll just stick the the superior uncut persona 5. Oh and I'll still play Nintendo games but when I get the nx I'll only buy Mario, Zelda, pikmin and metroid games, then at least I'll know what to expect.
@naut I hope your not talking about Neptunia? If so.. I have a few articles for you that will make TMS seem like the greatest localization ever performed.
@Jasonmd I put up with it in fatal frame and xenoblade chronicles x but not anymore. They lost a sale from me. Looks like only paper Mario color splash for me unless something else is announced at e3.
@Wexter I agree, whining, conspiracies and boycotts won't solve anything. But I also think the truth is somewhere in the middle, as I don't think that having to import games and learn foreign language, without voicing your opinion in a constructive manner will help anything either, as that is something only a small margin of people are willing to actually do. To me, supporting localized games with content which publishers consider inappropriate for the west seems to me like the best "vote with your money" way to go about it for now.
@Wexter voting with our money is the only thing they will understand. We would rather have a complete uncut game, its that it nothing.
@Piersen My play the Japanese version comment was just coming from a place of frustration. I have had so many arguments with people who do not even speak Japanese yet think they have the right to tell me (someone who can speak Japanese) how good or not good a localization is. Sorry if my comment came off as rude this is just coming from a more personally annoyed area than normal.
Uncharted 4 had day one DLC. Are people making the same fuss over that?
Not to mention this game has been out in Japan for some time- perhaps they should make everyone wait 6 months to access this DLC even though it's already developed and ready?
^^^ Food for thought buddy
@DiscoGentleman you are the one being protected here. We adults like to make our own choices as to what is appropriate for ourselves. I wonder how you'll take it when you finally see cleavage or swimsuits in real life, you'll probably cry and hide in your mother's bed.
@GN004Nadleeh No, you are going to tell them that you do not want niche Japanese role playing games. That is what you will be telling them. If they do not know why you boycotting something you are just wasting your time that could be enjoyed playing the damn game. If you contact them directly that is more effective. You are talking to somebody and if you complain to them long enough and hard enough they are forced to change something.
@Wexter Nah, it didn't come off as rude. Even if, I have no interest in being annoyed by people's comments on the internet. I just found it a little strange opinion to have, so I decided to react for some reason Not to argue, but to discuss.
@Piersen I personally think that these people should put their money where their mouth is. They go to NoA, to Treehouse Staff, even to Nintendo of Japan and complain and they complain hard things will change. DA:I was not a better game than Dragon Age 2 because we did not buy Dragon Age 2. We complained hard that what we got was an unfinished, unpolished game. EA and Bioware had no choice but to listen. If you want Nintendo to listen you call them, you email them, you tweet them. Just not buying a game without doing those steps does nothing if anything it does the opposite. It tells Nintendo "we do not want niche Japanese games" that is the message they will get without a strong Twitter campaign. You might even get your swimsuit DLC. But if you want change you have to do something about it beyond just complaining in a forum where no NoA or NoJ staff will care enough to look.
Clicked the article to see if the discussion had already devolved into the "it's really all about ethics in localization" stupidity, was not disappointed.
@Wexter Hear hear
@Wexter Nintendo already laid out its argument for its version of 'localization'. Pretty much they have made up their mind already and Nintendo is defiantly not a company that listens to its fans. Just like how they said the petition to bring the original xenoblade and the other two RPGs to the Wii had nothing to do with their decision. I really wanted to play the game but I'm not a child who needs protecting from swim suits. I'm more annoyed than anything, I may still pick up the game during a dry spell or sale but I will always remember all the cut content. If it wasn't meant to have swimsuits then atlus would never have had them in the first place.
Nintendo's localization changes have rather cooled my excitement for this game. I want the game with English subs, instead we're getting the game with English subs and lots of pointless, prudish changes made.
@JaxonH "perhaps they should make everyone wait 6 months to access this DLC even though it's already developed and ready?"
Or, perhaps since it is already developed and ready they should include it in the main game while they are doing the localisation and not make people have to pay extra for it Day 1? Call it "International Edition" (I borrowed that from SO:TLH*) You know, as a way to thank people for waiting, and for dealing with all the censorship. I figured you'd have something to say about the censorship, you don't seem a big fan.
Are you the first post here?
"^^^ Food for thought buddy"
Right back at ya
*Star Ocean: The Last Hope International, the game contains both Japanese and English voices as well as new content that is exclusive to the international version of the game
@GN004Nadleeh I honestly do not care what you have to say. I will be gladly enjoying this game as soon as it comes out. What I'm telling you is Nintendo does listen you have to actually be productive. You have to go to them and complain through every avenue. You tweet all the higher ups. If you don't then the next time a game gets an okay localization from Nintendo... well that is what I'm implying.
@Einherjar Well no one forces you to buy or not buy anything. That right is, and always should be, yours. But to be honest it always shocks me that people DONT focus on what has actually being changed rather than making it out like some massive conspiracy. Again, if actual story content is cut from a game it would be a big deal to me. But frankly it wouldnt bother me if Nintendo decided to change the outfit for every character in every western release in every game that they do from now on. Because what difference does that truly make? Like you say, vote with your wallet. I am absolutely all for that because it truly is the only way these companies understand. I will be voting with my wallet when this game releases by buying it day one. It looks like a fantastic JRPG in the veign of Persona 3 and 4 (4 being widely regarded as one of the beat JRPG's ever made) and not being able to see as much chest or thigh as our Japanese cousins will not spoil my enjoyment in the least. If it spoils yours, or if the entire principle of cutting content no matter how big or small it is means a no buy, then at least your wallet will look healthier than mine come June.
If people thought we could get offended by miniskirts employing the famous "zettai ryouiki" ("absolute territory", that is, the amount of thighs exposed between the miniskirt's end and the beginning of the high socks) model, joke's on them - we've enjoyed Sailor Moon just fine, without minding the fact those girls are fourteen years old. I will gladly post the obligatory Nostalgia Critic video here. Hoping nobody will get offended.
@Wexter @DiscoGentleman @naut
It's amusing how different your opinions are, and yet, how you're all in the right to some extent. Wexter, naut, of course it's not the same thing as the original release. We're charged for the full price while also getting less content than the original release, and there's no way the more prudish users can prove this sentence wrong. Besides, screenshots such as this -
On the other hand, DiscoGentleman is also right. While it'd be WAY more appreciated if we got the full package, the removal of some of its bits isn't that much of a big deal if said parts aren't vital. And all things considered, we're getting a game I never thought would see the light of day outside of Japan, not after all the radio silence following its initial announcement.
From my perspective, I came to the realization this is the age of compromises: ever since the dawn of the internet, fans discovered how much good stuff we've been missing in the earlier years of gaming, and the amount of "too Japanese" games we've gotten since then is slowly raising (surely, without the internet nobody would have localized Katamari Damacy, because "those western whiners will never find out anyway"), albeit with compromises. It's a baby-steps kind of approach, with said steps being the aforementioned compromises. Sure, there's a risk our acceptance of those compromises is a sign of us gamers being seen as human doormats, but hopefully we'll give the opposite sign instead: that we're becoming more and more accepting toward other cultures different from our own, meaning we'll also start putting on our money on the more unusual stuff. If TMS#FE bombs in the West, nobody will even bother localizing any possible sequel. And unless said second game sells a spectacular amount of copies in Japan, nobody will even bother making a third game. In a sense, it's the same lose/lose scenario I described in the Federation Force article (if we buy it, Nintendo will see Metroid fans as desperate and willing to buy anything; if we don't, Nintendo will see the Metroid franchise as yet another dead horse), which kinda sucks. But, who knows? Things are evolving, and our culture does so as we speak.
Oh, and one more thing. The fact that, in media, gallons of blood are more acceptable and seen as less "harmful to minors" than a female nipple is just stupid. Just thought this was worth mentioning.
@Wexter I never gave a crap about what you have to say either. You are telling people to get on their knees and beg. I'm not as weak as you. My dollars will do the talking, if it means we won't get more games like it than so be it, nothing is preferred when content is lost. Have fun on your knees, it won't get you anywhere.
Plannning on getting the game at launch in EU. DLC does not seem like a big deal really, and does not impact my buying choices. It's a way to squeeze more money from players but the descriptions make it look like the content is not substantial.
@GN004Nadleeh No I'm not. I'm telling you not to beg, but rather go to the people making the decisions and tell them you are not happy. That is not "begging" that is doing something productive. That is what adults do.
@Wexter you're still here trying to tell an adult what to do. That's one of the first rules if being an adult, I'll choose for myself.
@GN004Nadleeh Fine. No one is forcing you do anything. I know I sent an email saying I was not happy about the changes. Cause I do not know I put my money where my mouth was.
I thought it was strange, back when people started accepting the concept of paying extra for content or features that were once just another part of the game, and it's full asking price. (Companies like CD Projekt Red still offer DLC for free, though, in titles like The Witcher 1, 2, and 3.) But now, there are people who cheer for the removal of content, or even make the excuse that companies can do whatever they want, just because it's their product. No, the power is not with the publisher, it is with the consumer. The consumer needs to realize their power, and use it instead of giving in to paying more for less.
@Wexter So what does the consumer do when the company refuses to listen anyways? Especially for a niche title that won't ever reach a critical mass of feedback. Dragon Age is a series that reached a critical mass due to the Bioware legacy behind it, this title won't have that benefit.
@Warruz What irony ? I don't find it all that ironic that people get a free pass sh*ting on others as long as it is the current "popular opinion".
And it IS signal boosting, in its truest form. Just read through these posts. Most comments made "pro" these changes is almost always against the users themselves in a derogatory way, while users against these changes usually just voice their opinion on the topic at hand.
I have no issue with accepting other peoples opinions, not at all.
What i don't have to accept is this ridiculous vitriol. That has nothing to do with "accepting their opinion".
@Marshi Again, what is conspiratorial about it ?
I think it is pretty clear what and why gets cut and changed on a regular basis and that it's actually getting more with each release (comparison: FE Awakening - Fates / Bravely Default - Second etc)
That's not a conspiracy, that's simply a fact. And although i repeat myself here again: It is not about what exactly gets changed but that stuff gets changed.
"So changing dialogue is accepted ? Maybe we can do more next time. Oh, costumes are ok too ? Well, how about we mess with quest decisions next. How about releasing a game (DOAX3) or DLC ?"
Its the snowball effect i was talking about. If your're ok with it now, you're probably ok with it later on and that's what people don't want to have.
That this isn't escalating even more. It might be mundane now, but who knows what messages this sends for the future ? We already established that we can only vote with our wallets. And that's exactly what i'm going to do and i know plenty others who will do the same.
Nonsensical altered content ? No purchase.
Don't get me wrong, i could care less about outfit changes too and this DLC ? I could care even less. What i do care about is the future of localization.
People are fans of japanese games for a specific reason, and that is not that they are localized to be "as western as possible".
So i'd personally love it if this discussion would finally shift away from discussion about digital skin and more towards that these devs think that the western audience is completely insecure in regards to the human anatomy and must be sheltered from it like children.
@AlexSora89 Yup, its baffling that no one realizes how sudden this "outrage" about female 0s and 1s is...
We had this type of media for ages and never has it been any problem whatsoever.
And the Sailor Moon example is even more fitting.
Video Games now get censored because they misrepresent females in general and cater towards the "male gaze".
Funnily enough, shows like Sailor Moon aquired the stigma of being a "girls show". Hows that ? I thought it was specifically made for "the male gaze" ? Same goes for pretty much every other "magical girl" series out there to be honest.
And the irony seems to be completely lost to these people.
So what is it ? Did it take several generations of people to realize how problematic these themes are, is it that this gen simply thrives off of constructed outrage PR or is it that people are regressing into such weak and feeble minded creatures that words and images now penetrate like bullets ?
Another irony: Protests are in. Everyone encourages you to protest against everything these days. Sites like Change.org thrive and get stormed everyday to collect signatures against the most mundane things...but only if you are against things the collective deems problematic. If you are against anything else, you are deemed problematic yourself. Proof found right here in this comment section.
@PlywoodStick Interesting development, isn't it ?
I wonder what the people of "Project Rainfall" would say in a situation like that. Where the consumer just has to accept the decision made by the dev / publisher (e.a. not release the game in question)
I'm not interested in getting TMS, but not because of the DLC shenanigans... But rather, because it's the result of blind opportunism. If SMTxFE had been a hearkening back to the Majin Tensei spinoff series, and advertised "Hey everyone, here's a title in the spirit of Fire Emblem on a home console, with all the bells and whistles you've come to expect!", I bet it would have actually done better than it is now. Instead, we got a weird Persona spinoff, to try and capitalize on the (mostly Sony based) Persona fan base, while mostly ignoring the Fire Emblem fan base, and it backfired big time. TMS barely sold even in the heart of Japan, the bullseye of the target audience. Imagine how well it will do in the West, where barely any understanding of the Japanese pop idol culture exists...
@PlywoodStick Stop buying from them outright. NISA pulls the exact same crap after doing it three times and flopping miserably for all of them. It comes as no surprise that one of the guys from there now works at Treehouse. Another guy also supports the person that made all of the "gay conversion" rumors about Fire Emblem Fates on Patreon.
@BRAINFOX I am in the US, Atlus publishes their own content here. I will continue to support Atlus where it's due, such as SMT4: Apocalypse. But not for this drivel.
"What irony ? I don't find it all that ironic that people get a free pass sh*ting on others as long as it is the current "popular opinion".
And it IS signal boosting, in its truest form. Just read through these posts. Most comments made "pro" these changes is almost always against the users themselves in a derogatory way, while users against these changes usually just voice their opinion on the topic at hand.
I have no issue with accepting other peoples opinions, not at all.
What i don't have to accept is this ridiculous vitriol. That has nothing to do with "accepting their opinion"."
The fact that you are mocking them for taking a moral high ground stance, yet you yourself are coming from that same stance just on the other side of the coin. Again:
"I'm glad it is in no way signal boosting how morally "clean" you guys are. I'm glad that we are a community so accepting of other peoples opinions and that being against any form of censorship is a valid point still. "
I am all for not slinging of poopies, but lets be real here, your coming from the same stance, perhaps a bit nicer, but the moral superiority tones are still there.
@Warruz: Please watch your language - Octane
@PlywoodStick I meant Nintendo of America considering Atlus appears to be going along with the changes due to them not publishing it themselves.
I despise their censorship. It pisses me off.
But to complain about DLC when the game has been out in Japan for many months is not right. It's extra content, developed as DLC and should be sold as DLC. All Japanese games take time to localize. Star Ocean is taking time to localize too.
I'm not happy about the censorship, at ALL, but the DLC is a non-issue. If you're gonna make a complaint, at least make it a legitimate one
I want the swim suit dlc because I am a pervert
@Einherjar Dude, Im with you. Censorship sucks, period. What I was trying to say is that on this occasion its not worth getting in such a huff over some "digital skin" as you put it. If (or arguably when) content becomes cut to the point of the game not playing the same in the west, then I will be happy that at least I will be saving myself some money. The last decade has slowly seen more and more games being released in a year. Where I would have in the past bought perhaps 3 or 4 games per year, I am now finding myself buying 30 or 40 games, all AAA quality and all "essential" as I see it. So forgive me if I don't lose sleep over a game that is censored left right and centre because it just means I can focus my time and effort into a better game.
I think at this point we are arguing semantics friend. You clearly see any sort of censorship as a crossed line and will not buy a game that has any evidence of the sort. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with your attitude on this. However my tolerance over such things are a little more lenient than yours.
So in short. I will buy TMS and im fairly certain the censored scenes will be invisible to me unless I see a comparison to the Japanese version. I am looking forward to this game.
I would have preferred it all too be on the disc or free DLC but I'll check it out tho.
@JaxonH "at least make it a legitimate one"
I'm going to have to go w/ "legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder" on this one, b/c really, I don't care all that much about the censorship. I just think of it as translation. If I cared that much, I'd learn Japanese and import the game. Things always change in translation, always. Beer becomes pop all the time.
But if they had time to get the DLC ready day 1 in the west, then they had time to put it in the game.
I do think we meet on the left out DLC. To me that's not a translation issue, thats - "Hey, why does Japan get 6 DLC but we only get 5?" That's not translating wine to water or 13 to 18, that's changing the amount of content. If they are going to make it and charge extra for it Day 1, at least give people in the west the chance to buy it. Getting back to our "online" discussion, people in the west don't have the opportunity to play the entire game. Jeans or bikini, beer or pop, I don't care, but don't hold back part of the game. That's just asking to start a riot.
@BRAINFOX Gotcha. I don't know what is going on with NOA these days... They were doing fine for a while after Minoru Arakawa, the previous NOA President, stepped down for Reggie. But now, they've regressed to almost '90s era levels of censorship, with the added baggage of employees who let their emotions take hold over their professionalism. I've certainly held off on products they censor, but they're not getting the message. We'll see how the situation turns out when 9th gen begins next year with NX... 8th gen has just been a bust outside of the 3DS and PC for me.
"They had time to put it in the game"
Of course they had time. But time isn't the issue. It's additional content, developed to bring in additional revenue. There is no point in them spending time developing additional content if they're just going to hand it out for free.
I am fine with this "day1" dlc because it wasn't really day 1 in Japan. The censorship thing bothers me though, even if I wouldn't buy a costume DLC (meaning something purely cosmetic) anyway I still think they shouldn't choose for their customers what is "appropriate" for them. Plus, I don't see children playing this niche jpg game or anyone get traumatised by a swimsuit...
I thought the battle system looked intriguing in this game, and I was accepting or better of its various design influences, but I'm damned tired of having to set my morals and feelings over supporting censorship aside to buy practically anything from Nintendo these days.
I won't be buying this game, due to the changes made.
And I don't think it's "we know you hate it but we're forcing it down your throat anyways" with Metroid. It's "we know you hate it but the game is almost finished, it is what it is". Surely they can't just cancel every game people complain about. Some people will like it at least.
As for the censorship, now THAT they most definitely are shoving down our throats whether we like it or not. I actually think their goal is to censor enough to make people complain and get articles written showcasing the censorship, then they can rest easy the SJW crowd won't make a fuss. It's a "see, look at us, we're doing no wrong" approach. It's appeasing a crowd who doesn't care about their games, never even knew this game even existed probably, and all at the expense of pissing off their customers.
I went to Twitter and found any tweet I could to call them out. Tweet about Pokemon? Well now it's a thread about this overzealous censorship
@Warruz Again, what moral high ground ? I haven't mocked people based on the fact that they don't share my opinion, i haven't mocked people for sharing theirs and i haven't mocked people based on "guilt by association" by "being on the wrong side of the discussion"
So yes, i don't think that mentioning the fact that this nonsense happens everytime such a controversial topic shows up is "preaching from a moral high horse" but stating simple facts.
This did happen, this does happen, time and time again.
And i am sick and tired of having to defend my opinion time and time again against those trying to paint everyone not abiding to their perceived norm with the wide brush of "perv, sexist" or whatever else is currently in.
Am i angry ? Yes, absolutely.
@Marshi Again (second try): I dont give a flying flunk about what is cut or altered. Proper sales numbers now sends the message that this was perfectly fine. Next time, it might be something less mundane.
That is what im saying, nothing more, nothing less.
If censorship sucks, period, it shouldn't matter what was altered but that it was done. And again, im voting with my wallet. Altered ? No purchase. I don't care what was altered and i don't care what im "missing out" on.
But i wont support this trend. People mocked the time when Nintendos "Seal of Quality" was a sign for altered content back then. Now its back and they are praised for doing so.
I don't want to see it becoming any worse so im not investing money in it, again, no matter what was altered, no matter how mundane.
And as i said before, everyone is perfectly free to purchase and enjoy it. More power to you people. Who am i to judge other peoples decision ?
So i hope its a OK game and that you guys will enjoy it.
Just the fact that having a different opinion on the matter pretty much gets you a "yellow badge" and its open season to mock and namecall you as seen in other comments.
It's making me angry, really angry, because i'm so sick and tired of these nonsense discussions and this namecalling over the most idiotic things.
@Yorumi Have you tried Twitter?
NoA even has a PM Message option.
Try tweeting Bill Trinen
There are ways of reaching them you just have to look for them.
@Einherjar I detest it too pal. ANY sort of aggressive behaviour simply because of differing opinions is something I actively try to avoid.
Me and you disagree on this, but why should that mean I should fling dirt in your direction? I (as I have been trying all afternoon to get accross) actually admire your resolve and determination to stop censorship.
Like I say mate, we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I will buy this game for reasons already stated. But I understand your stance as to why you wont.
@Yorumi I think Metroid is probably something they want to have for NX at this point. No reason for them to show off Wii U titles that will just get moved at this point. That and if rumors are true a number of Wii U projects have indeed moved to NX. I say just be patient on the Metroid issue they will probably have something during the NX reveal event (whenever that will be).
I also do not think they have a lack of caring it is just a rock and hard place for them. If they keep some of the content in there then SJW and other articles will paint them as sexist, they remove it they are self-censoring. It is a lose lose. Best thing you can do as a fan is express this dissatisfaction to them via official means like Twitter or even contact them on Miiverse.
@Marshi And this is pretty much all i wanted to see here: A civil, calm and rational debate. Thanks a bunch, a little faith restored
@Einherjar Any time matey. Lifes too short 😄😉
@Wexter I had heard that Nep Nep Rebirth 1 had a pretty rough English translation. But I didn't hear anything about censorship or cut content on it.
Also, when it comes to voicing our complaints to Nintendo, who are the people you recommend e-mailing/tweeting?
With all the prudishness going on these days, it's actually possible a new anime like Sailor Moon would be greeted by angry parents holding signs and whatnot.
Also I get a feeling Operation Rainfall is going to become my go-to answer for people saying we don't have the right to express our complaints.
@AlexSora89 Well, it does usually end in a block
But yeah, consumer feedback lead to Project Rainfall, reprints of Radiant Historia and many many other achievements.
What do people think about publishers taking to sites like kickstarter to gauge "interest", if people shouldn't vote with their wallets ?
Why did Nintendo hold their Smash ballot if it was their game and we simply had to except what they are going to do with it ?
And for the same reason im not buying these games. To set a statement just like people did on these occasions.
And ya, that was me. When I heard the news I was irate. Surprised you found my little rant
I want my banana hammock dlc! Nintendo! Make it happen!
Also, make NX region free!! Do it!
@Einherjar those people need protection! we don't need them breeding anyways! they're already afraid of swim suits.....
@AlexSora89 except nintendo themselves said operation rainfall had zero effect on their decision to bring the games over....
Guess we need to censor Smash Bros as well, especially Shulk in his speedos! Why the double standard Nintendo?!?
@GN004Nadleeh Nintendo regularly dements the most obvious stuff. Plenty of "No, does not happen" happened in the past.
And dementing that this had influence over their publishing plans saves them from "Why don't you do it now, you did it back then" accusations.
Typical business babble. Pretty much like the "contains traces of peanuts" on a pack of peanuts.
Day 1 DLC: uncensored version?
Of course they said that. They couldn't admit they were bowing down to overwhelming fan requests.
It appears to be evident that Pac-Man complied to a charmingly worded request.
@PlywoodStick I'm with ya there. If NX isn't region free, I'm waiting for the inevitable exploit to make it so. Monster Hunter alone won't be able to change my mind like with the Wii U if this is the path they're going down.
@JaxonH At this point, I guarantee the changes are being down because of the people working there genuinely wanting those changes while the higher ups go along with it because of the "wider audience" excuse. It wouldn't shock me since their HQ is in Seattle last I remember and that place is crawling with SJW types.
Absolutely crawling. My cousins live in Port Townsend, across the Puget Sound from Seattle. Been up there twice to visit, and YA... it's about as liberal a city as I've ever seen aside from maybe Madison, WI.
These people are so detached from the real world. Like, if you asked a normal person what they thought of some video character showing cleavage they'd shrug, and say "uh, repeat the question?" But these social justice soldiers rant and protest and make bold accusations... it's all they do. And it would be one thing if they were actually calling out legitimate real world issues. But this? Might as well start riots because McDonalds gives plastic toys in their Happy Meals. After all, it's killing the environment- the world is near its end and we have to protest this outrage!
@Warruz moral high ground? So you do think they are better because they are afraid of fictional sexualization....
@AlexSora89 or they simply won't accept any idea that isn't their own, they will even go as far as doing the opposite just to prove the point that they control all.
That makes a frightening amount of sense.
Censorship in order to appease the ESRB is complete B.S. Senran Kagura Burst got away with a hell of lot of kinky content, and The Sims series has pretty much pushed the limits of what kind of sexual content can be accommodated at the T rating.
The following link contains an image from The Sims 2: University, the first expansion pack of The Sims 2, which was rated T, just like every other expansion pack in the series. This particular expansion contains outfits for men and women which are comprised only of leaves to conceal their privates. Furthermore, they can also make out like bunnies and dive under the sheets in this state of undress. And incidentally, The Sims games are made by WESTERN developers.
The outfits that Nintendo typically censor are stupidly tame in comparison.
@sillygostly And in comparison, Sims are made to resemble actual, mundane humans. There is no fantasy world where different social structures might exist. This is our world.
Take your Sim and let them WooHoo with every.single.person in your neighborhood, make hundrets of babies and place them all in the middle of the street to roast in the sun....
And tell me, that this is "less harmful" than a fictional character in a fictional word wearing swimwear.
Stuff like this is the ironic indicator for how fabricated this outrage BS actually is.
I still hope to get my hands on a Fortissimo edition, but this and the SE of FE: Fates equates to an expensive month!
@sillygostly It's because of Nintendo's family friendly image in America. Which is STILL something they have to freaking get rid of if they want to succeed with the NX.
There are adult Nintendo fans too, it's not all just kids who need parents to buy games for them!
@Einherjar is spot on about this. Why has this suddenly happened?
It seems to me that feminists/SJWs are trying to gain full control over any imagery of women, and limit the enjoyment males can get from seeing those images. Whether it's a real woman who has given full consent, or a completely fictitious arrangement of lines and polygons, they complain. That's what I object to - the control they think they are entitled to over me. It's not about trying to get an erotic thrill from a video game.
This issue is by no means limited to Nintendo or even video games, but Nintendo is particularly bad in that it gives too much credence to these people. Things have become so bad, it's no exaggeration to say that even something like Metroid or Zelda could be affected in future. What if a designer wants to put a particular outfit on a Great Fairy? Or Samus in her Zero Suit? Even a bikini? It's increasingly hard to imagine those things. By bowing down to the SJWs, Nintendo is limiting the rich tapestry its games can occupy.
The cynical greedy yet prudish Nintendo!
The game is not even out yet and they already announced stuffs that are not going to be in the game like seriously you can't include these on the disc before the game's release?
@MetalKingShield Dont you know ? Samus is trans, deal with it
@Einherjar : Furthermore, The Sims is the only video game franchise that I know of that portrays teenage sexuality in overt detail. Funnily enough, teen Sims cannot make out in bed, but it's perfectly fine for them to jump each other on the sofa and make out in hot tubs in nothing but their undies. I'd argue that this sort of content could potentially be more damaging to public morality than a few scantily clad characters that are otherwise devoid of sexual context.
And hypocritically, nobody bats an eye when it comes to almost-naked depictions of men (as we've seen in the swimsuit screenshots for TMS#FE). I think it's virtually unheard of for an age rating to have been increased over the state of undress of a man unless it involves full frontal nudity.
@Einherjar - Hey, fine by me.
@sillygostly - That's because there truly does seem to be an agenda against male sexuality, rather than just sexuality in general.
@sillygostly The Sims has the added "bonus" of "simulating ordinary life".
Meaning, that you are not controlling Elf Girl #2564 in Mysteria Land but potentially Jack and Jill from next door.
Plus, you have total freedom in whatever you want to do. The game doesn't punish you for whoring, its doesn't punish you for mistreating your child, pet, spouse, neighbor etc.
In fact, some "life choices" even encourage you to piss off and insult people to achieve these little quests.
All while being hailed as a "fun for everyone" experience.
And yes, it is a blatant double standard no matter how you look at it. If you measure everything by the same standards, The Sims is potentially the most dangerous "role model giver" out there, since its also the closest to "mundane, everyday life", its emulatable.
And i don't know, i much rather have my kids learn to go to the pool with their friends instead of placing their kids in a microwave, drown their neighbors in the pool and not giving a sh*t about education since you can learn everything by watching TV or on the internet...
If you dissect games with these "progressive lenses" on, you'd be amazed how many dangerous and problematic games are out there that actually could inject the wrong ideas about life that are usually hailed to no end. Why ? I don't know.
My tinfoil hat says its because many woman actually like them.
@Einherjar : Another thing that I had noticed about The Sims: Unleashed and The Sims: Makin' Magic (expansions for the very first Sims game), is that they allow for incest to occur. In fact, parents can have relations and even children with their own children, grandchildren etc. It's all quite sick how nobody picked up on this and how there was never any controversy surrounding this element of the game (which is arguably worse than the Hot Coffee fiasco that plagued GTA: San Andreas).
Considering how the Australian ratings board loves to nitpick at the most trivial things in order to justify banning games, I'm really, really surprised that they did not pick up on this (they banned GTA3 because you can have sex with a prostitute, kill her, and take back your money, which in their view, constituted "sexual violence", even though the ability to kill in the GTA games is essentially indiscriminate, as was the possibility of incest in The Sims, as genetics/family trees were not coded into the game).
Incidentally, games that included "sexual activity related to incentives and rewards" would get an automatic ban (now, it will get an R18+ classification), however, The Sims 2 and 3 would occasionally present aspirations for Sims such as "Have WooHoo with [Sim]", "Have WooHoo in Hot Tub", "Have WooHoo with 20 Sims" etc., and when these aspirations are fulfilled, players/sims are rewarded with aspiration points, that can be exchanged for special reward items. These games were all passed with a M rating in Australia without any issues whatsoever (the Australian M rating is comparable to PEGI 12 and ESRB T), despite the clause that explicitly prohibits this sort of content from being available in games that do not carry an adult rating.
Yet, when Sexy Poker sprung into the scene (the game was originally supposed to contain breast nudity, and was initially passed uncut with a 15 rating in the U.K. and an M rating by the ESRB), the game was banned in Australia due to "nudity related to incentives and rewards", which I thought was ridiculous considering the Australian ratings board's otherwise relaxed attitude to nudity as bare breasts were permitted with only a PG rating in film and TV shows. The stupidest thing of all is that Sexy Poker would not have been banned if the girls were naked from the start, but having them undress as an incentive is considered too racy by our classification board.
@sillygostly Cue in the outrage over God of War and its silly little button mash minigame where you have sex off camera and get some Orbs (exp) for it.
Completely optional, completely irrelevant while in the examples above, having sex with, well, basically strangers is a major gameplay element. It's a core component and one of the goals of the game. And it's the only game that outright encourage you to have sex with characters which also happens on-screen.
@Einherjar So there was a reason why Samus had both male and female qualities in the 80s/90s (I've had that strategy guide since it first came out), instead of being overtly feminine, and The Sims is finally revealed to be Will Wright's sickening assault on the stereotypized female tendency towards gossip and sex adventurism, hence the game selling so well with girls and women (LOL). Well, my mind has been expanded today. I liked the Super Metroid manga Samus design best, and this puts an interesting spin on that.
And yeah, God of War is proof of how far one can go with an M rating, incidentally showing how far Nintendo has regressed into censorship land. It takes a lot more than just wearing bikinis to = M rating.
@Yorumi I cringe and giggle at the same time when i look at it. It's art
@PlywoodStick They regressed back into censorship land. They've been there already back in the 80's/90's.
Maybe that is what they meant with "going back to basics".
I am late to this topic, but seriously, I am getting tired of Nintendo censoring everything they get their hands on. I am not interested in any of the DLC, but from the point of principle this is very annoying. If we let go of some censorship, they might increase it for their later games. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile -_-
Not getting the game day one probably till I find that they did not change some story component as well.
Well, I loved the concept, promoted the game with my friends, but this stupid censorship has to end. Not buying the game or the DLC. Nintendo will not see a dime from me, and if they blame the costumers for bad sales so be it. I prefer not to see butchered versions of the games here in america, I had enough with 4 Kids in my childhood.
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