Through a mix of determined strategy and the benefit of plenty of open-minded competitors, Nintendo has seen Super Smash Bros. for Wii U establish itself in the competitive scene. Though the franchise as a whole is still lagging behind some huge franchises in eSports, it has a loyal base of players and can attract significant audiences for the year's biggest events, with the Wii U entry and old favourite Melee commanding the most attention.
Though structured teams and sponsors are a major part of eSports, including the elite level in competitive Smash Bros., it's often an individual's endeavour. One on one battles are the lifeblood of the competitive environment for Smash Bros., with major rivalries and intense matches establishing the narrative for multiple events throughout each year. It's gladiatorial in a sense, though other prominent eSports have a team focus, such as League of Legends and Counter Strike. These squads of players function much like conventional sporting equivalents - they train together, form strategies and play with a plan.
Now there's a move to bring that team dynamic to Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. At the heart of it is Isaiah "TriForce" Johnson, well known to many for often being the first to buy major Nintendo systems (posing with his power glove and Reggie Fils-Aime, more often than not), but is more notable for his role as CEO and Founder of Empire Arcadia. At different times the organisation has enjoyed spectacular success in eSports, including Smash Bros., amassing a record number of tournament wins (earning acknowledgement from the Guinness Book of World Records). Now Johnson is keen to do two things. The facilitate a strengthening of the North East scene in the US, and to shake up how competitive Smash Bros. works; he's doing this with a New York based charity - S.O.S. Gamers - with the aim of raising the profile of the competitive scene and the charity itself.
The Gauntlet
The Gauntlet is the team-based event that Johnson and S.O.S. Gamers are looking to push into the competitive arena. It'll be unique to the Wii U iteration as it uses the 8-Player Smash format, with two teams of four battling it out to accumulate the best kills to deaths ratio as a group. With the sizeable stages and complexities of techniques at a professional level, it's easy to see how well-formed teams could combine to deadly effect in such a face-off.
Johnson first encountered the format when at an S.O.S. Gamers event, visiting his colleague Antoine "Wes" Lewis-Hall, who is Vice President and Chief Operations Officer of S.O.S Gamers and the General Manager of Empire Arcadia's Smash Division, Deadly Alliance.
"TriForce" Johnson: I first saw this style of the Gauntlet in action when I decided to visit Wes and Kubuu earlier this year, when I was in New York at one of their local events with the kids. They used the 4v4 play option of the game to help teach "team work" among the youth. Now, we all know that the 4v4 option has been in the game since its launch and that's a solid two years, but I've haven't seen anyone put to use the 4v4 style. I spoke to Wes about it and said, why doesn't anyone use this format? Wes told me that he had plans to use the format in a charity league with the kids but needed a launch platform to bring it to the competitive scene. It was then we started to talk about the North East Fighting Game Community redevelopment plan, that and that is what you are seeing unfold now.
The idea is simple, ultimately, yet the challenge is in promoting it as a concept to the broader competitive community. There's a plan in place to host an Invitational on 27th May - from 6pm to 11pm Eastern US time - to be streamed live online at www.twitch.tv/8wayrun. Focusing initially on the New York and broader Tri-State area, Johnson and his colleagues through S.O.S. Gamers have bold plans. Though there are multiple potential tournament formats, Johnson and Jason "Jaxel" Axelrod - who will be managing the live stream - have a clear structure in mind for this event.
"TriForce" Johnson: Well, there are three different formats and it's all based on the function of eSports. For this particular topic we'll simply focus on the charity Invitational. In this format, 4 teams of 4 will be invited from the Tri-State region. These are recognizable staple teams in the community that everyone in knows from the Tri-State area. It will be a double elimination competition, 2 out of 3 rounds for all matches and 3 out of 5 rounds for Grand Finals. It is not based on the stock but more on time. The time will be set to 5 minutes and this will force everyone to be engaged into the competition and also work as a team. Camping will only hurt your team. The team with the best K/D ratio will obviously be selected as the winner. Pretty simple.
As an introduction we agreed that a charity Invitational would be ideal to show off the format and also create a platform to talk about the charity part of S.O.S. Gamers, and where its gathered support will go. S.O.S. Gamers is in talks with teams such as House of 3000, (LoF) Leap of Faith, IQHQ and more about their availability for the invitational. Obviously Deadly Alliance will be in it representing for EMP (also known as Empire Arcadia). They're reaching out to several teams and the teams with the availability will be selected.
Axelrod: Since this is the first of its kind as a 4v4 in fighting games, the Gauntlet will be completely different from the structure of doubles (2v2) and singles (1v1). All players will constantly be a part of the action to help push their "team" forward to win the game. Something not found in fighting games until now.
The event and live stream themselves are, despite the 4v4 Gauntlet format, aiming to deliver what Smash Bros. fans expect when watching tournaments online. While Axelrod is keen to get the technicalities right, for S.O.S. Gamers' Lewis-Hall the focus is also on encouraging the right atmosphere and spirit.
"Wes" Lewis-Hall: The key approach is to make sure everyone is having fun and the production quality of the stream is exceptional and tasteful for the viewers at home and for the players. The standard tournaments take hours and hours that drain the viewers, tournament hosts, players, and casters. We want to be able to manage the time and be able to keep it simple and fun.
Axelrod: I was told that we will have some commentators rotating in and out as virtual host for our viewers. These are seasoned players who have played through the Super Smash Bros. series in its entirety. They'll be able to give you play by play action and strategic insight on the matches as happens. It will be interesting to see, however, how this Gauntlet style is commentated.
It could be a fun event, yet all three organisers are firm in their belief that this team approach could become a game changer for the Smash Bros. competitive scene.
A New Approach to Smash Bros. as an eSport
While more details on the 27th May event will emerge in the next few weeks, a key goal for those involved is to breath fresh life into the competitive Smash Bros. scene. Though audiences are significant for the biggest events, the goal is for this team-based format is to boost and diversify the scene. There's little doubt that, with pro players on the pads, some intriguing strategies and action could unfold in 4v4 showdowns.
S.O.S. Gamers and Johnson plan to both promote the charity's goals, which we'll return to in more detail, while also establishing a league structure to spread awareness and uptake of the Gauntlet as a format. The aspiration is to see the prioritisation of teams encourage a level of unity and togetherness, while no doubt rivalries could also emerge to spice things up for spectators. For Johnson and Wes the plan is for the charity Invitational to be the start of greater things.
"Wes" Lewis-Hall: Originally the Gauntlet was the premiere New York based Smash Bros. tournament back in the early 2000's. Today it's been redesigned to work as a 4v4 team structure for competitive gaming in Smash Bros. We plan to launch an actual season later this year which will involve teams from the Tri-State area. We're looking to start with 8 to 16 teams for season 1. Each team will have to register and need at least 6 people in their roster to qualify. This league will be unique and like no other Smash Bros. competition in the world. We plan to expand it all around the United States eventually through the season and also at standalone majors, that's the goal. We at S.O.S Gamers feel that Gauntlet is a revolutionary format for the future of the competitive Smash scene. It may just make a bigger splash than singles. It also brings people together, people love being part of something. The majority of people would rather be in a group than alone, especially if it's a group of people that's doing something fun and positive.
"TriForce" Johnson: As I stated before, there are three formats and outside of the charity element the other two are focused solely on eSports initiative. Shortly after the charity invitational, S.O.S. Gamers will be launching that season and then there will be carded events for major eSports tournaments. All of this will kick off by the summer of 2016. The idea is to first introduce the entire Gauntlet format, which is an evolution of the old style Gauntlet tournaments hosted in the community back in the early 2000's. From there, S.O.S. Gamers can announce in detail the 2016 Gauntlet season and then any major eSports tournaments that S.O.S. Gamers make arrangements with. As I said this is a part of the broader North East Fighting Game Community Redevelopment Plan, so you might see the first major as early as Summer Jam X.
It's certainly ambitious to propose a new style of competition, with the Smash Bros. community typically - from the outside perspective, perhaps - rather set in its ways in terms of structure. It's with the intense rivalries between individuals that the 1v1 format has been dominant, with even casual observers of only the biggest events being aware of the tension as the top players seek to be number one. The prestige can perhaps far exceed the monetary rewards, too, yet the passion and enthusiasm in the 'scene' is undeniable.
Yet the point is readily made that other games have established themselves as huge eSport industries with team-driven structures. There are still individual stars, of course, but there can be as much excitement in seeing groups battle it out as normally found in 1v1. For Johnson, Wes and Axelrod, there's no hesitation to draw comparisons to other games and suggest that, with 8-Player Smash, there's an opportunity for Nintendo's fighting game to find the same edge.
"TriForce" Johnson: This approach will certainly change the game but more so it will add to the game a completely new dynamic. Although singles is the traditional way to play, I believe the Gauntlet style will complement the Super Smash Bros. competition by adding yet another dimension of play. Team play is a major factor in any competition or sport as it adds a diverse element in the competition that singles doesn't. I'm confident this format will bring Smash to the level of League of Legends and Counter Strike. Yeah…I said that, quote me.
Axelrod: I'm confident that a team approach like this can break through into the competitive Smash Bros. scene. When you look at today's major eSports titles they're all team based games. League of Legends, Dota2, Counter Strike, Call of Duty and more. Smash Bros. entering this Gauntlet format of a 4v4, adds a whole new system of play that truly focuses on team work. Team chemistry will be the major factor of a system such as the Gauntlet and that alone will draw a whole new generation of players to support the Gauntlet format to the Super Smash Bros. series.
"Wes" Lewis-Hall: I am very optimistic about teams being the big thing in not just the Smash Bros. community, but in the eSports scene as well. We need to showcase the excitement that is found in high level teamwork. If you look at all the most popular sporting events like Soccer, Basketball, Football, Baseball, heck even Hockey, you'll find that they all support team play. The same is said for eSports today. Look at the other genres; Halo, League of Legends, Counter Strike they support teams as well. So it's evident that teams is the way to go, it's just most Smashers that run these big events are not confident to be the one to launch it in fear that it might not be accepted and they would then be ridiculed for it. We're from New York, we welcome criticism when we try to bring about change for the better.
"TriForce" Johnson: What excites me the most about the new and improved Gauntlet is its potential to create a platform for new teams to be introduced to the Super Smash Bros. competitive community. Fighting games are for the most part a 1v1 style of competition, however I believe that we're not even scratching the surface of what it's true potential of the FGC (Fighting Game Community) is. As a part of our redevelopment plan for the North East we're look to introduce a "Gauntlet" style system to a few of the other fighting games to help foster new teams in this industrial eSports revolutionary age. There is so much in the works that we can discuss but now is not the time to reveal these things, as we need to take carefully planned and calculated steps to ensure that we launch this properly for the entire scene to enjoy.
As all of those involved are keen to point out, efforts to transform and broaden the competitive Smash Bros. scene to include a team dynamic are not designed to be combative to the current status quo. It's ultimately about diversity and expansion, giving players of all types a new way to band together as eSports competitors, both at professional and enthusiast level. After all, S.O.S. Gamers is a charity that tries to support young people in New York, and like all sports - or eSports - levels are dynamic; there are top-level competitive players but also plenty that simply like to play the game. The team format is for anyone and everyone.
For Johnson, he's keen to emphasize that Smash Bros., and Nintendo games in particular, are integral to the history of eSports; by extension they should be a big part of its future.
"TriForce" Johnson: Super Smash Bros. plays a very important role in any eSports league, circuit, community, city... you name it. It is integral to the entire Fighting Game Community (FGC). A lot of people will not admit it but Super Smash Bros. has done just as much for the FGC worldwide as its peers in competitive fighting games. These so-called "kid's" games have a 15 year old running version of it still bringing in thousands of players to the EVO World Fighting Game Championships. Name another game that does that in any eSports genre on the planet? There is only one other competitive game older than Melee and that is Donkey Kong, and that game is 35 years old. A world championship is held each year for it called the Kong Off, which is an invitational of the world's best Donkey Kong players. They've even made a movie based on the game called the King of Kong: A Fist Full of Quarters. Fittingly, only Nintendo games have this longevity and influence in gaming culture.
eSports as a Force for Good
This feature has largely focused on the Gauntlet format and the shared goals of TriForce Johnson and colleagues with S.O.S. Gamers to promote its team-based approach within the competitive Smash Bros. scene. We do want to also shine a spotlight on S.O.S. Gamers itself, however, in turn highlighting how important organisations of its type - around the world - can be.
Social projects and charities are well known for utilising sports as vital activities; in urban areas, for example, youth clubs will often use the likes of boxing, basketball, football, soccer and more to bring young people together. It can be key in keeping vulnerable kids 'off the streets', and in the UK (as one example) the BBC distributes a major award every year through its Sports Personality event to someone who's excelled in using sport to help the vulnerable in society.
So, as the conversation around eSports evolves, in establishing the industry as principally similar to traditional sport, organisations can pursue similar goals. In New York and surrounding areas that's the goal S.O.S. Gamers has - with their long shared history in eSports and the Smash Bros. scenes, Johnson and Lewis-Hall both feel they have a lot to offer in this area:
"TriForce" Johnson: Actually, it is because of my eSports work that I got involved with S.O.S. Gamers. Like our cousin industry "sports", there is an obligation that both competitors and athletes alike have in terms of giving back to society. Whether you play video games competitively in eSports or you're an athlete in traditional sports, the fact that a person is able to participate in those activities is a "privilege" in my opinion. There are a lot of less fortunate people in the world that don't have those privileges and we owe it to ourselves to use the benefits of those privilege to help others who are in need.
When I found out that one of the members of Deadly Alliance wanted to create a charity organization based on gamers giving back, I immediately requested to be a part of their official charity initiative. S.O.S. Gamers then made me a Charity Ambassador for their events. We did a bunch of charities together, our most recent was our gaming event in Jamaica with the Sickle Cell Unit game day. Our most notable event was the food drive that I did with S.O.S. Gamers during the launch of Super Mario 3D Land in Time Square New York. We really had a great time raising food for Charity while being the first in line to not only to purchase the game but to try out the mini theme park Nintendo built in the middle of Time Square based on the first level of the game.
"Wes" Lewis-Hall: The key activities we run with the young gamers is using Smash Bros. to teach them life lessons and social skills. What we do before we play the game is have topics that we have a big group discussion on. In conjunction to the discussion groups we hand out tests that spark up critical thinking. When we introduce Smash Bros. gameplay into the lesson of the day we set up scenarios in the game to reflect the lesson we talked about. So, for example, if we talk about communication we set up a 4v4 match and encourage players to communicate with each other as much as possible during a match. After the matches we have a discussion about them to make sure they understand why communication is important.
It's not just about being competitive in Smash Bros., either - S.O.S. Gamers has used titles like Wii Sports Resort and Dance Central is some centres and nursing homes, all to use games in a positive way.
The upcoming Smash Bros. event, then, has the aim of boosting awareness around the organisation and what it's doing, potentially also highlighting the work other charities also do for those that become curious and look into events in their own area. Johnson cites raising awareness as a "key goal" for the whole initiative.
Beyond simply giving youngsters somewhere to play games, the idea is to use technology and games like Smash Bros. to teach valuable lessons and provide vital structure - to achieve this the organisation runs its own eSports league in New York.
"Wes" Lewis-Hall: Technology brings not only the youth together in my opinion but it brings everyone together when used in a positive manner. The key to our success in our initiatives as we introduce a blend of technological communication between peers along with, I guess people would call it verbal communication between peers. The reason we do this is to make sure the kids have a healthy balance between the two within our program. Which is why we use Smash Bros as the technological platform for our group discussions. This is the verbal bridge to get our message across to our youth.
A key part of our organization is being able to integrate our charitable services into the eSports scene. The role our league plays for the youth is providing them with a positive activity to keep them off of the streets and around positive like-minded individuals. This plays as a conduit for them get into Smash Bros. and that helps our scene grow and helps the community, essentially killing two birds with one stone. It also gives those who lack social skills a comfortable environment to interact with others so they can develop their social skills at their own pace. You'll find many kids are socially inept and are socially awkward but in the Smash community they all can relate to one thing, and that gives them the confidence to build better communication and social skills.
The future goals for S.O.S Gamers are to continue to harvest our youth league around the Tri-State area and in conjunction run a successful 1st season of the Gauntlet League, and obtain a community center before the end of the year. We want to make sure we continue to grow all the interlocking communities that are involved in the Smash Bros. scene as a whole.
A Team-Based Smash Bros. Format for All Players
Like any part of popular culture that draws a large group of diverse individuals, the Smash Bros. competitive scene has had it controversies and issues. Yet ultimately the joy of playing and competing wins out, even as challenges are met and confronted.
It's clear that Johnson and Lewis-Hall want to foster a positive and alternative style for competitive Smash Bros., to expand upon the existing formats and potentially attract new audiences. In proposing an alternative to complex 1v1 showdowns in exchange for a team-based approach with eight players battling at once, there's a hope to see Smash Bros. match and perhaps - in the future - surpass existing team eSports. With the Wii U bringing 4v4 to the table in Smash Bros., it may foster a new approach in the competitive environment.
This early Invitational event in New York is ultimately only a beginning, though there's little doubt that the ambition is there to slowly expand and increase the Gauntlet's reach. The key message with that ambition, ultimately, is one of positivity. As far as Lewis-Hall is concerned its biggest hope is to bring gamers together, regardless of their circumstances or old rivalries.
"Wes" Lewis-Hall: eSports will eventually be the largest and most valuable outlet for young people looking to do constructive and productive things. The reason this is the case is not every kid can relate to traditional sports, as they may not have the physical fortitude to break into the sport. eSports to me is like any other sport, a group of people who have the same interest in something that's fun to do and is competitive. The difference between eSports and traditional sports is that you can learn and practice at your own pace anywhere and anytime in eSports, whereas in sports that is not the case. I've gotten this from my experience doing events and the youth league helps get kids off the streets. I feel the more positive outlets the kids have at their disposal the brighter their future will be.
The message is "Teamwork". The North East Fighting Game scene needs to work together as a team. That is the only we can grow and expand into new competitive elements of the game. The Gauntlet is not "exclusive", it's inclusive and we first plan to use it to reestablish the North East FGC but then we want to expand it throughout the entire FGC from the United States throughout the world. We want to work with everyone. This is not just a charity invitation, it's an invitation to the community of eSports that host Majors like NEC to Leagues like ESL that continue to push the envelope when it comes to expansion of the eSports scene. S.O.S Gamers looks to embrace any and every one that supports this project that we are introducing. We believe it will be something amazing.
We'd like to thank Isaiah "TriForce" Johnson, "Wes" Lewis-Hall and Jason "Jaxel" Axelrod for their time. Keep an eye on Nintendo Life for more news and coverage around the planned Gauntlet Smash Bros. event on 27th May.
In the meantime let us know what you think of the Gauntlet format, and perhaps share your own experiences of eSports or thoughts on organisations such as S.O.S. Gamers.
Comments 46
It could be interesting, and I'm not opposed to it. However, I doubt it'll be quick to trend in the community, as most would prefer to stay in the range of 1v1s and 2v2s.
This article was very well-written, though!
I think it's a great idea, but I doubt the competitive community will embrace it.
lol Empire Arcadia lol
I would like to try it before I have a say on it as it may be too chaotic at first for players or even viewers to enjoy it, but like I said I haven't even seen it put to use.
I don't know why this wasn't done sooner. I've been advocating this since 8-player mode was announced. Not only is it much more interesting to watch and play because of the teamwork, but it does away with the stale, tier-reliant rosters seen at Smash tournaments. Instead of seeing 16 people use five characters, a 4v4 format makes the lower tier characters viable options to fill certain roles. Charizard is often ranked dead last in the competitive tiers, but as part of a team, he has several moves that work well for set ups and his strongest attacks become much easier to connect when opponents have their hands full elsewhere.
It's kind of sad there has to be this much effort just to introduce a new game mode to a video game competition.
I'm amazed more people haven't embraced this type of thing yet. While smash works as a 1v1 I think it at it's best when more players and stages, etc. are involved. Sakurai would agree with me. If you want a competitive 1v1 fighter, why aren't you playing street fighter, which makes way more sense in that context.
I've been waiting for something like this to happen. I'm hoping it'll build into something significant. Maybe this will make it clear to people that Competitive Smash (and competitive versions of many games) are not just the best players playing the game, but people who are very good at the game within a specific set of rules (which are designed to minimize the effect of random chance and without playing a large number of rounds). Maybe someone will make a format which includes items and put the argument to rest.
it could be successful, but in my EXPerience, 8-player Wii U Smash is just AWFUL!
Yes because 8 player smash is totally so much fun for the players. If they want to make a large brawl, assign a team leader to a team of 4 to make it more strategic somewhat. Competitive smash scenes won't accept random free for all brawls as they shouldn't.
I doubt this could ever take off with current Smash Bros fans, least of all because Mr Triforce Johnson is known within the community for a great deal more than being the first in line to buy consoles. NintendoLife probably shouldn't be covering his new venture, imo.
Sounds neat, but the competitive community still hasn't even embraced the idea of custom moves being legal yet either, when the vast majority of them are very balanced, but never seen, due to customs tournaments being so rare...
I find it hilarious that Donkey Kong is the only one being hit in both of those screenshots.
@HeroponRiki Basically this. 1v1 is the lifeblood of Smash, and I don't see the scene readily abandoning it for this.
Although I appreciate the good intentions behind it, competitively speaking it sounds like crap through and through. Matches will be chaotic with little rhyme or reason even amongst the best at the game, and the fact it's time-based will make people aim almost exclusively for heavy-damage/knockback, up-close types of characters, which will limit what we see considerably. Expect lots of quadruple Clouds or two Clouds and two Bayonettas.
So yeah, I doubt the competitive scene will genuinely embrace this travesty. I can see many top players signing up to give it a chance but hardly any sticking with it in the mid or long term.
Some games are just not cut out for 4 vs 4 competitive matches. If that makes them less popular to mainstream audiences that's too bad and all, but it is what it is.
@LinkSword limited character selection already happens as far as I know, so it's not really any different than 1v1.
Hopefully team attack is enabled for this. 4v4 without team attack ends up with incredibly spammy teams.
The 4v4 format has been done casually before and it is definitely too chaotic and unfocused to be taken seriously. It's also much less interesting to watch than it sounds. 2v2 is already overshadowed in popularity by 1v1 fights, adding more players at a time won't change that. If you want to put together large teams for competitive smash then you do crew battles.
@MetaRyan People in the smash community nowadays don't like the littlest change, even if it is beneficial in the long run.
I'd like to see how the format pans out; to me it looks to combine smash bros with the team deathmatch format of a lot of FPSes, which could be a nice change of pace depending on what stages were used.
Also, I'd really like to see esports being used in a way that benefits the community so I definitely hope that gets off the ground. I'd love to speak with these guys to see if I can get something similar started in my area. Video games have been a great way for me to get to know kids of all ages and I'd like to give back.
Awesome idea! Luckily for him the Smash community has proven to be very versatile and is always open for change... .... ....
@mozzy1 Because people prefer playing Smash over Street Fighter? Who cares about what Sakurai wants. Should we all watch the Star Wars special editions because Lucas wants people to see them?
Also lol every time there's an article about competitive Smash the comments are always filled with people who have no clue about the scene posting nonsense about the players.
@bro2dragons I never thought about it that way, but you're right.
In a 4V4 format, they could even employ methods such as a team of 4 that play only as Ness or Lucas, with one player in the team at a time hanging back while the others battle it out, and when one needs healing, they can run to the team mate that's been hanging back and use their Psy Shield to absorb some PK Fires. Or the one who's hanging back can use some well-timed PK Thunders to heal them at a distance.
Little strategies like that could be a big boon to growing the popularity of this idea, and I'm absolutely in love of any idea that does away with the conventions of the tier lists in a fair and exciting way like this one does.
@Rocdema
I respectfully disagree with that.
When well-coordinated teams get together, a 4-vs-4 match can be just as exciting as any 1-vs-1.
@smashbrolink
It's already rare enough to find a team coordinated enough to play doubles. That's why far less people play doubles than 1v1. There are plenty of videos of pros playing 4v4s. Have fun finding a match that looks like anything but a mass of chaos.
Exciting, sure. Competitive, nope.
This sounds terrible. I like the idea as an exhibition match after the actual tournament featuring the top 8 finishers. Or maybe in some local tournaments where you basically just show up with your friends to screw around. I can say, though, that 8 player-smash is HECTIC. It's honestly hard to tell who you are if someone uses the same character as you, and almost none of the 8-player smash stages are competitive-legal. The mode would just be awful in every sense. There's a reason the game has stayed at singles, doubles, and crews and never played as Free for All. It would just be awful, especially at an eSports event. Seeing two people performing at their very best against each other in neutral conditions is exciting and makes people see Smash more seriously. Seeing a bunch of people basically messiong around with no rhyme or reason would solidify Smash in many people's minds as "just a party game". What a joke of a format.
Interesting idea, but I really think 8 player smash is too chaotic (team mode is better as there are less targets, but still not a lot of space to move around in, and hard to keep track of your character).
3v3 could be workable, and different enough to be interesting. Team attack on, if competitive, to reduce spam
@EmmatheBest I'm pretty sure there was talk about the competitive scene and the use of custom moves, and even some tourneys that used them. I think the biggest problem is that there is no reliable way to unlock custom moves for the characters, and these tournaments are often running multiple Wii U's with multiple copies of the game. It would be an absolute nightmare to have all the custom moves unlocked just for the sake of a tourney, so it's just infinitely easier to ignore them.
As for the balance of the custom moves themselves... I've found that many are either stupid good, or practically useless.
@Geno-Breaker I'm not going to get in an argument, because waste of time. But in order to play smash 1v1 you basically have to strip the game of stages, items, custom moves, and everything else you don't like. Why do that? Why not play it as meant to be played? I don't really care that the competitive scene exists, for some that's valid. I just think it's silly. We don't play Mario kart one after another, only on certain stages, only on time trial mode, keeping track of times, do we? Of course not.
Considering Smash players dislike change, this is never gonna stick in the future. Just look at Melee players with Smash 4 lol.
@mozzy1
Movement is more free in Smash and it makes it an unique 1vs1 fighter. Not only that but you can play 2vs2 matches too competetively.
I really want to see 8-player Smash in competetive scene. I´ve played it quite a lot in events like anime conventions and even if it's very chaotic it could work in these kind of competitions too.
Triforce is a nut job.
If only everyone knew...
@MrMario02 It will be different having great players compete against each other than playing with the friends in your area though.
@Marthian Not to the same extent whatsoever. 1v1 limits the use of low-tier characters, as is the case with pretty much any fighting game, but there's still a wide range of characters that when used right are competitively viable. The possibilities are even bigger in 2v2, because a temmate's character may make up for the other's weaknesses and capitalize on their strengths.
The key point in either of those is that they're stock-based, which means the bottom line is who can hang on to their lives and take the rival's best - not who can take an indefinite number of stocks faster. Even some of the best characters in the game, like Sheik, are known to take a while to kill, so a time-based format pretty much kills all of those characters competitively.
Actually. If this works, a tier list for the Gauntlet might have to be made and character's like Jiggly, Ganon, Dedede, etc might have more use.
In other words, more random Teams of character's and combinations meaning a growing competitive mode.
Alright! I've been wanting to see it implemented in the smash scene. Although, I think 3v3 might be better but hey it's a start.
Sure this mode may be chaotic with 8 low level players, but could be really good in a pro level fight. I wonder how the rules will work when it comes to selecting levels and characters. Can you have 4 sheiks v 4 sheiks? I believe this style of play would certainly breath new life in lower tier character.
I'm looking forward to see this! ^__^
@KO-Cub very true. Crew battles started in Melee and now has the opportunity to flourish with SSB4. As for change, many of the Smash players are for it. I think we just need bigger screens
Nah, 4v4 doesn't work well for Smash. 2v2, yes, but legal tournament Smash stages are too small and uninteresting to give them the same impact as the best Counter Strike and Halo 1/2 maps. (And of course, illegal ones rely too much on stage luck.) Nintendo would have to create exponentially larger maps with more maze-like features specifically for this purpose... Fat chance. It's laughable at best and disingenuous at worst to compare the likes of Final Destination, Big Battlefield, or even Hyrule Temple to Halo 2's Lockout, Halo 1's Blood Gulch and Battle Canyon, or Counter Strike's Dust 2 and Inferno.
I still think Project M is more balanced, and would have been a better representative for Smash in eSports, seeing as how it topped popular interest at it's peak in 2014, even beating out Melee. Smash 4 interest was always lower. But unfortunately, Nintendo would have none of it, so Project M is out of the picture.
All of this sounds great on paper, but I doubt it will turn out well in practice. Well, they made their bed, so now they have to lie in it...
@PlywoodStick
We have big stages tho.
Should I remind you of; Big Battlefield, Great Cave Offensive, N64 Hyrule Castle, Palutena's Temple, Bridge of Eldin, Windy Hill Zone, Jungle Hijinxs, and, the fabulous most wonderful Hyrule Temple. These have interesting and... quite few dangerous hazards (cuz... Lol... Great Cave Offensive...).
@KO-Cub Those are all big enough for 2v2, but not 4v4. Hyrule Temple comes the closest, but even that isn't enough for 8 players running around at once, except maybe as a more claustrophobic map. And a proper competitive map shouldn't have any stage hazards, because they add a luck element.
Wow, that's really cool! The 4vs4 idea as well as the charity aspect.
I can totally imagine a team-based Smash reaching the level of DotA and LoL, maybe even with 3D maps in the future.
At the same time, I think the social aspect of these charity events, especially for kids, is really important.
"You'll find many kids are socially inept and are socially awkward but in the Smash community they all can relate to one thing, and that gives them the confidence to build better communication and social skills."
In my opinion this is something that falls into the responsibility of traditional sports and esports as well.
You guys are all really stupid. Triforce will just take people's money and besides, this hasn't caught on before becuz there's a way better format to play on large teams: Crew Battles, which are honestly more hype anyway. If you gize want to see larger scale competitive teams matches, Chicago does 3v3 tournaments
they'd have to ban Bayonetta, Corrin, Cloud. Otherwise the matches would be pretty boring to watch.
It's a fighting game at its core, it's remarkable that doubles tournaments function as well as they do even though the game was built around making 4 players work. If someone wants to tap into the idea of a team fighter with 4 players a side they need to craft it, balance it and ultimately cater its mechanics to competitive play far more than sakurai and his team did for sm4sh
@Ph1L I always tend to listen closely when someone begins a comment with "you guys are all really stupid".
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