This week could be an interesting one for Nintendo fans. With E3 creeping ever closer the company will be revealing its annual financial report - beyond profit figures this means details on sales and projections, and will also bring us Tatsumi Kimishima's media briefing and investor Q & A. It's the Nintendo President's presentations, ultimately, that will draw the most interest for all but the statistic buffs interested in the company's bank balance.
It's worth acknowledging, of course, that 2016 is a notable year for Wii U and 3DS, which we've covered in 'Biggest' games lists and other features - both potentially have major blockbusters to give them life late in the year, along with some other intriguing titles. It's also important to be clear that, for many, the narrative has already moved on, and Nintendo's own priorities and resources have clearly - based on the limited release slate for Wii U, in particular - shifted to other areas. As a result we can expect Kimishima-san to be addressing the future for Nintendo, which mainly revolves around 'NX' and mobile.
What investors will care about, most of all, will be the issue of returning to 'Nintendo-like' profits, which has been a goal unfulfilled for around five years. In the Wii and DS era Nintendo was dominating the gaming space, with the DS 'family' becoming the second best-selling platform in the industry's history and the Wii capturing the public's imagination to 'win' its generation - albeit with a lifespan that faded quicker than for PS3 and Xbox 360. Forgetting all of the ins and outs one thing is clear - Nintendo was an industry leader and one of the most highly regarded (and profitable) technology companies in the world.
Of course, technology evolves in the blink of an eye, and the public's drift away from motion controlled gaming and the rise of tablets / smartphones, to name just two factors, changed the game. When the 3DS system arrived in late February 2011 in Japan (late March in Europe / North America) it was picking up the mantle of the DS. Yet it never had a hope of matching its predecessor because of the varied changes in the market, and Nintendo had to respond with a rapid price cut and some major releases to achieve some momentum. We've frequently argued that the 3DS has been a success considering the tough odds it faced, and it's been the only thing holding Nintendo's finances relatively steady on a consistent basis - yet it'll potentially only reach about half of the DS family's sales if it has some strong sales in its twilight; as of 31st December last year the 3DS family had sold 57.94 million units, the DS reached 154.01 million.
The reliability of the 3DS and its sales, despite diminished returns and a smaller consumer base, has been vital because of the Wii U's struggles. As of December 31st the home console had sold just 12.6 million units, a poor number for three years on the market. As only selling between 3.5 - 4 million units is a good year the system, it's utterly failed to make a meaningful breakthrough with the mainstream. Mainstream, as a term, doesn't necessarily apply to the so-called 'hardcore' gaming audience, either - it simply represents a critical mass of people that buy into and establish a dominant trend. Wii and DS, selling over 250 million systems between them, were mainstream successes.
The Wii U's lack of early momentum proved disastrous, as did Nintendo's inability to reverse the slide. Many major third parties (and their franchises) ditched it early, and no matter what fantastic titles Nintendo and its closest partners have released it's failed to take off. Even when games like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon have shown trending potential in terms of media coverage (old-school and social) the console has remained resolutely at the bottom of the retail food chain.
The Wii U is proof, not that it was really required, that a company's dedicated fan-base is never enough on its own. For every generation there's a core of dedicated fans and a larger group of consumers that know about the Nintendo brand and like the games, but decide on a case-by-case business whether to buy into the concept - tens of millions of Wii owners didn't blindly follow onto Wii U. It's not a problem unique to Nintendo - Sony struggled to shift notable numbers of Vita systems, and there's evidence that plenty of Microsoft's Xbox 360 fans defected to PS4 in this generation. Consumers waver and go with what they feel are the best and most desirable systems - when a console only appeals to a dedicated fanbase you get Wii U levels of sales. We know the Wii U base is committed to the cause, to give one example, through the fact that Mario Kart 8 has sold 7.24 million units as of 31st December, an extraordinary rate of 57% of the system's total sales.
Nintendo knows all of this, of course, as it'll have experts and highly paid analysts that have broken all of this down in great detail. Fans, however, clearly don't all recognise of accept this reality. We all have our bucket-lists of what we want NX to be, for example, but our priorities may not all match Nintendo's - the big N will have produced a system and concept it thinks will capture the general public, the wavering case-by-case crowd that bought DS and Wii in huge numbers and never came back. Likewise with mobile - there's a vocal fanbase that bemoans Nintendo's moves into smart device apps, shuns Miitomo without hesitation and slams the presence of free-to-play experiments on the eShop. And yet Nintendo is doing what it has to do.
That's why, for every fan-pleasing reveal in the coming months there'll be another that targets a broader audience, earning inevitable criticism from some on social media and the web in general. After all, it was in seeking the 'blue ocean' that Satoru Iwata brought Nintendo screaming back to the top of the industry in the last generation, a period that brought us the term 'Nintendo-like' profits. Such has been the shift in consumer technology, however, that Nintendo has to embrace smart devices and, perhaps, trends and approaches in NX that'll rub fans of 'traditional' or 'conventional' gaming the wrong way.
Of course, for most fans the over-riding priority is for Nintendo to be successful and keep making games. We've argued in the past that gaming needs Nintendo, simply because it produces content that's still unique and fresh in the industry. Ultimately gaming needs all of its inclusive parts - including Call of Duty, Angry Birds et al - in order to flourish, and an industry without the big N is an unpleasant prospect.
So in wishing for a successful Nintendo, we'll have to accept its modernisation and shift in approach. At some point a treasured franchise is going to arrive (officially at last) on smart devices, and we may hear a lot more about engaging customers, building brand awareness and all of these terms that prompt some to roll their eyes. It's a difficult reality to accept due to the speed at which it's happened - it was only a couple of years ago that the idea of Nintendo 'games' on smart devices seemed fanciful at best; now we're expecting multiple arrivals before this time next year. The codenamed 'NX' could ultimately be far from the expected, too; with Nintendo it's hard to predict.
Just recently we polled the community on how optimistic it is about the rest of 2016. Pleasingly the numbers show plenty of positivity. It may be that the 'good old days' that brought regular generational cycles of gaming systems and old-school ideas are drifting away, but that certainly doesn't mean change can't be hugely exciting.
Whatever Nintendo does this year and beyond, though, it needs to do more than win over the most eager of its fans. If the company is to return to a leadership position in the gaming industry it needs to find the magic formula for mainstream success - for all of the pros and cons around this, we should hope it succeeds.
Comments (243)
Completely agree. The casual audience is long gone. I think while the Wii raked in the money, long term it did more harm than good. It may be too late to get the hardcore audience back. The time to start doing it was back in the N64/Gamecube days. People think Nintendo fans are set in their ways, well so are the opposition fans. They've made communities and friends elsewhere and will be reluctant to move.
There is no reason why Nintendo can't offer what the competition does. Then add in the first party exclusives and you're laughing. If only it was that easy. It could have been at one point but not now. Nintendo have dug themselves a deep hole, let's see if they can dig their way out. I hope so.
They do need to appeal to that mainsteam again. And hopefully bring many non-gamers back in, as they did with the Wii and DS. There's still a lot of space for the games industry to grow into.
I just hope they manage that without alienating their hardcore audience. It was really tough to stick with Nintendo over the Wii years as a hardcore gamer. They just didn't offer what Sony and Microsoft did. Pretty much all I remember from the Wii was Mario Galaxy, Xenoblade Chronicles and Skyward Sword.
Hoping to the best, preparing for the worst.
Unfortunately, the only way to "excite" the mainstream audience is to give them what is already out there.
Nintendo just needs to start releasing the same muddy FPS games, tedious racing games and yearly sports games that PS4 and Xbox One have. PS4 and Xbox One are basically the exact same console. And yet they each sell better than anything Nintendo puts out. So people don't want innovation or new ideas, they don't like to be taken out of their comfort zone and try new things. They just want retreads, rehashes and remixes of the same formula.
Heaven forbid you try and flesh out the controls of a game like Star Fox, right? No, that's too difficult to try and adjust to. We should just stick with the same control scheme we had nearly two decades ago. In fact, maybe we should just go back to the two-button A + B controllers.
The other problem is rooted in the fact that people will claim they WANT innovation, so Nintendo does things like introduce motion controls. Then people immediately say "I hate this" and throw their Wii away.
@Vandy Well said.
One of the main reasons I stock with Nintendo is bevause they are constantly innovating and trying new ways to experience games. Each generations controller is 100% new as opposed to PS4 which looks almost identical to the PS1 controller is just one example. (Not hating on PS, just sayin'.) For that reason I loved the Wii U and gamepad.
NX should still try something new in my opinion, it just needs to be WAY more powerful instead of treading so carefully around pricepoint so it can get more support from everyone.
People tend to not realize that, whether they like it or not, Nintendo NEEDS to do things differently. They can't afford to compete in the exact same technology arms race of their competitors. Yes, that even, perhaps especially, means oddball input devices over standard controllers. They need their own gimmicks for them and even the industry to continue to thrive.
HC Fans that are gone will come back if the NX wont be a gimmick system
@brandonbwii
Exactly. Nintendo is trying their best to carve out their OWN brand identity.
When you look at PS4 and Xbox One, do they have a distinctive brand identity? No. Do they have anything that TRULY sets them apart from each other aside from "some exclusive titles"? No. It basically comes down to whether or not you prefer your dashboard screen to be green or blue.
And this is coming from a guy who actually owns all three systems!
If you know the expression 'The comedian's comedian', then you will appreciate why Nintendo is always relevant.
@Vandy "Nintendo just needs to start releasing the same muddy FPS games, tedious racing games and yearly sports games that PS4 and Xbox One have."
If you look at it another way, you could say that Nintendo just releases the same Platformers and RPGs.
Saying these things are just generalisations though. There's plenty of great games on PS4, XBox One and Wii U. It would be wise for the NX to have some game genres that are popular and do well in the charts like FPS games. At the same time, the NX also needs the games that Nintendo are known for and loved by their fans.
What are they going to do about 3D? Will they carry it on or forget it for next system? Seems backwards if they do. I guess you'd need a 3D tv for home console
@Vandy
While that is true, the gaming industry has been ignoring virtually everyone else who isn't into that.
I mean there is nothing on PS4 and/or Xbox One that appeals in any significant way to families, kids, women, nerds, "casuals", or whatever other type of person you can think of these days.
It just has to have the right appeal, content and price ( a $250+ piece of hardware is too much).
If it is true that the "hardcore" really are buying multiple PS4s and Xbox ones, then there is no reason why PS4 can't reach 100M sold off the backs of the "hardcore".
I mean it's believable because the average Xbox 360 owner bought upwards of 3 Xbox 360s before the gen ended and the average PS2 owners were said to own multiple PS2s.
Nintendo can provide an alternative to the gritty and violent "hardcore" gaming as you described.
Though their alternative has to be simple, straightforward, and priced under $250 USD.
The Wii U was too confusing, too pricey and too muddled of a message to appeal to mainstream/casuals/women.
It just had too many bright colors and E — T rated games at launch to be seen as "hardcore".
Nintendo cannot complete against Microsoft and Sony for the "hardcore" who want the games you mentioned because Microsoft and Sony literally lost over $10+ Billion USD last gen competing for them to the point it nearly bankrupted Sony.
PS4 is slightly profitable on hardware margins, but Sony is spending close to $1 Billion USD to get Western 3rd parties to support their system in full capacity.
This alone is more than Sony makes on selling PS4s.
Microsoft is spending almost as much as Sony just to get less 3rd party
When this gen is done, Microsoft alone will have spent will over $1 Billion USD and Sony will have spent over $2 Billion USD for Western support.
But the good news is Smartphone sales for 2015 are negative (as in they sold less phones than in 2014) and 2016 is expected to be the year where Apple sells less iPhones while Android drops even further.
The people who are going to show up in this thread:
-Those who demand that Nintendo essentially produce a Playstation that plays Mario and Zelda.
-The doomsayers who say that Nintendo is going to die because it doesn't have [insert thing commenter wants here]
-Those who call everything they don't personally like a "gimmick"
-Those who think that Nintendo can do no wrong
-Those who say Nintendo needs more new IPs
I don't know what Nintendo's going to do, but I can be sure it will be more interesting than "this console is more powerful than the other one." I'm just strapping in for the ride.
@crimsontadpoles
Actually for almost 10 years now the games that chart in NPD, UK charts, and EU charts have been almost FPSs, GTA, EA Sports, Ubisoft AAA titles and the other AAA Blockbuster.
Occasionally a Nintendo game or niche 3rd party title would chart, but that is rare.
Those people who buy those games don't want to associate with Nintendo games, E rated games, most T rate games or anything that is considered family friendly or female friendly according to NPD, Sony, EEDAR and the rest.
We literally have the market research on it, showing that the "hardcore" wants nothing to do with non "hardcore" stuff and people.
They don't even like going to non gaming places that non-"hardcore" people go to for stuff.
@earthboundlink Erm...the only people you omitted were those who couldn't care less...and of course they won't be on this thread lol!
@Xenocity In the UK, Nintendo's problem is the majority of 11 year olds consider Nintendo for babies! (Maybe a broader problem with parenting / society maybe...)
@GrailUK
Actually it is way beyond 11 year olds and preteens.
Surveys in the Western markets show a large number of adults associate Nintendo with a brand for children and young kids.
Wii and DS were the only Nintendo systems to escape that image and become known as mainstream and female friendly.
Wii U returned to being the kiddie console.
@Xenocity wins points for mentioning the thing that matters less to us as "gamers" and a whole lot to the masses: Price.
Nintendo likes their hardware to be profitable when they sell it, but they're competing in a world of carrier-subsidized smart devices. They can't compete on price and specs with those devices that can hide their true costs from consumers. I think price is one of the main reasons Nintendo has struggled in the last generation. The Wii And DS seemed to present a lot of interesting tech for not a lot of money at the time, but this was before carrier-subsidized smartphone arms races that have left pretty much all gaming console companies forced to sell basically subpar tech to compete at the right pricepoint, or sell more advanced tech at seemingly high prices when compared to the shiniest new smartphone.
I honestly don't know how Nintendo is going to meet that challenge without selling the systems at a loss, which they have always been loathe to do.
Don't forget that the mainstream intent was there when EA talked of "unprecedented partnership".
The question now is how much is Nintendo willing to conform this time?
EA sports bundles for NX should answer us that
@Yorumi
They can do that, but it will require something to capture their attention.
Unifying the OS and development environment (including architect) will make development that much more streamlined and simplified.
Though you need to find away to streamline controls to make them user friendly and intuitive.
Valve did a good job with their Steam Controller, but they received a big backlash from the angry "hardcore".
Nintendo find a way to streamline and meld traditional controls with something that is intuitive, easy and user friendly and user personalized. If they can do fully customizable controls then that is a big win for me.
As someone who has gamed for 26 years, dual shock and Xbox controllers are god awful and horrible for most games.
I hate dual analog games with a passion because they are so anti user friendly and horrible cumbersome.
Anyways serving this market, which I believe the plan to will drive "hardcore" gamers away and the Western 3rd parties who need them for sales.
Say good by to EA, Ubisoft, Activision and WBi with their AAA blockbuster games and M-rated titles.
Though to be fair WBi and EA have already left PC/Steam markets.
Ubisoft is winding down PC/Steam support.
Activision doesn't fully support PC players on what little they release.
I thought the Wii and the DS were gimmicky so I'm not surprised the Wii U is gimmicky as well and, no doubt, the NX will be.
I remember when controllers had just one button so anything more than that seems totally gimmicky to me. I mean, how dare the Sega have three buttons. WTF!? Mind you the Intellevision and Colecovision had more than one. Anyway...back to work for me.
Nintendo adressing mainstream audience seems to be like an unfortunate task these days. I dont really wanna go into details here.
Personally I think, Nintendo has a very strong fanbase, I mean 10 million people have bought the wii u and what did they get from it? Not too much, sure MK8 is great and theres a couple of other games but generally speaking the software lineup could have been much better and this is something that I will hold against them and remember. If third parties jumped ship they should have really gone the extra mile and delivered awesome games one after the other,. Of course they didnt, they came up with amiibo festival and what not.
So, if you have a strong fanbase you should care about them and deliver!!! Right from the start with a strong fan oriented line-up and all the way, right to the end. By doing so, you will attract other people and turn them into fans. Third parties will come along. Other than that, we have seen with the wii u....
But do we need 3 consoles that are the same strengh in the market? Its all gonna be about the exclusive games at the end.
@earthboundlink
Actually Traditional style American subsidizes have ended in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and a few other markets that had them.
Now AT&T makes you pay full price or pay huge monthly installments now.
Verizion will subsidize your phone, though you still have decent sized monthly payments (bigger than before), but you must return the phone at the end of the contract.
T-mobile doesn't do contracts, so you have to pay full price but you get a smaller bill than others each month. They do pay fair price for older phones.
Sprint is almost as bad as AT&T and Verizon in monthly fees.
Again all the sales trackers show smartphone sale sdown significantly from 2014 and are showing an even bigger decline for 2016 sales (due to iPhone sales being stagnant so far).
Smartphones are now in decline like PC, Tablet, and other industries.
Smartphone users have been buying less software each passing years, with developers relying on shady methods to earn money.
I have been with Nintendo since it began in video gaming and i will support whatever it releases but moblie gaming i will never do phone gaming..Never...
@WiiUPS4Gamer
No phone gaming with me either!!!
We are consumers, we have the right to buy or not to buy. If we buy games like amiibo festival we will get more of the same kind, if we dont we send a message
Problem is, the casual mainstream audience are, by no surprise, cheap. Mainstream would define someone who plays games on devices they already own and don't have to pay extra money for.
Which brings us to one of the biggest markets in our generation, Mobile gaming. Mobile phones out performs the current handhelds in a lot (but not all) of specs, and are more assessable in the 'I have to stay busy' culture most first world countries push.
A mainstream user means the common man, which commonly means a person with a family and works at least forty hours a week. There are exceptions, but a mainstream user is not the one to set time aside and play games. Which the nature of home consoles is completely against. The Wii was lucky to come just moments before the iPhone. It's unfortunate, but the 'mainstream' wallet is sooner to go into Apple's pocket than Nintendo's.
What I'm implying is that Nintendo is in a very awkward position right now. They can't aim towards the hardcore audience because they have the PS4, and the casual audience might be even harder to convince, given to what I said above.
But don't ask me for solutions, I'm not a market analyser. I just know what's popular and how it got popular. Then again, maybe 99% of what I just said is crap. We'll see by the end of next year, I guess.
It's going to be impossible to address everyone responding, but one of the most important things that needs to be addressed is how the Wii U "failed" before it was even released.
Honestly, I have been following the Wii U since they first announced what the gamepad would look like. From that very first day, people had written it off and doomed it to fail. I would strongly argue that a lot of people never even gave Wii U a chance. And with that toxic atmosphere permeating around everything to do with the Wii U, it leaks out to others who may have considered giving it a chance, but all they encounter are the most vocal of blow-hards yelling and screaming about how much it "sucks". When Splatoon came out, I had some friends over to try it out. One of them said "I don't want to play that, I heard it sucks. The review on ____ said it was basically an FPS for kids". And then he tried it. And to this day, he still comes around every once in a while because he wants to play some Splatoon.
Funnily enough, the same thing happened recently with Star Fox. People who claim to love Nintendo and want them to succeed won't even give them the benefit of the doubt and even TRY their newest release before they give their uninformed negative opinion on it.
People are going to respond to me and say that this isn't true, but the evidence is all there if you really care to back and look for it. Go dig up some stuff from around the initial announcement of Wii U. People abandoned it right off the bat. And the unfortunate thing is that in the age of youtube, anyone with a camera can upload a video full of profanity-laced tirades about how much something sucks. The people with qualified, rational opinions are the non-vocal minority these days. For every one eloquent reviewer on Metacritic, there are three angry video game reviewers on youtube.
I'm a huge gamer. I currently own almost every console ever released. I'm not trying to puff out my chest and say I'm the be-all and end-all or anything, just highlighting the fact that I am, in no way, a fanboy. I like games on all of the consoles. But I can honestly say that I have gotten more enjoyment out of my Wii U library than I have the PS4 or Xbox One libraries. The mainstream audience just needs to give Nintendo a chance. But I don't know what it will take for them to do that.
I don't personally know what the solution is, I only know the problems.
I love Nintendo and I agree that they need to appeal to a mainstream audience. I would love it if Nintendo made up with third party devs, because, quite frankly, they are kind of driving people away.
@Dakt
See, that's just bias right there.
I enjoyed the heck out of Captain Toad AND Kirby Curse. They were quirky and unique titles. I felt I got more enjoyment out of the price I paid for those two than I did for Fallout 4 and Metal Gear V. Which, by the way, were both heavily praised by critics. I regret my day-one purchases on those two.
It's all about what you're looking for in a game.
@Yorumi "is nintendo had ONE success with gimmicks and it wasn't even as big a success as others have had with normal consoles."
You are SO WRONG, Nintendo profited more on Wii/DS era than Sony+MS with PS1+PS2+PS3+Xbox+xbox360+PSP+Vita. Nintendo made Huge money with this systems.
Also, can we PLEASE stop saying the Wii U is "too pricey" at $250 when the PS4 and Xbox One are $400 or more at retail? People argue that Nintendo needs to cater to the "budget" gamer, but then have a problem with their budget price-point! How cheap are you?? Advanced hardware still costs money to make. If a SMART PHONE can cost $700, then a game console like Wii U is perfectly okay to price themselves at $250.
I think if the mainstream audience just stopped being so thick headed about games having to be "dark" and "gritty" and gave Nintendo games a chance, they'd see what they're missing. Nintendo games are (in my opinion) the greatest games out there. I know if there's some kind of way for Nintendo to break through that barrier, they will Nintendo's never let me down, I know they won't now.
If by "mainstream" you mean the Madden/CoD/GTA group, I can't think of anything Nintendo could do to draw them away from other platforms. Even if Nintendo had the strongest system, all the same multiplats, their own exclusives, and the best features, I don't think they'd get that group. It basically boils down to exclusives and reputation. If you'd rather play God of War or Uncharted than Mario or Zelda, you'll probably stick with Sony, even if GTA looked better on Nintendo's system. If you think Nintendo is the "kiddie" system, you'll probably stick with Sony, even if there are plenty of M games on Nintendo's system. The group Nintendo needs to target are the people who don't care about "mature" exclusives, particularly families and people who don't take gaming too seriously (and, of course, Nintendo fans). The Wii U could have done that, but it was marketed terribly, and never fully delivered on its potential. My older brother is the perfect example. He had a PS3, but thought it was, in general, not fun and too serious. He tried Mario Kart 8 and soon after got a Wii U, because MK8, along with games like SSB, NSMB, 3D World, etc delivered the fun he wanted from a game system. There's Nintendo's market.
I am interested to see how Nintendo's going to even convince me to buy a NX at launch. I'm starting to worry Miyamoto is getting long in the tooth, and the only thing innovating lately has been controls, and the "core" gamers dont' want variances in controls.
They have to get 3rd parties back. That's step 1. They have the first parties to survive, but if I want to be able to play everything, I need to upgrade my PC, cause Nintendo is missing to many genres right now.
The NX is make or break for Nintendo.
@Dakt
I get what you're saying, but it's still bias. I wouldn't personally call Kirby: Canvas Curse OR Captain Toad "filler releases". They were full-size games in spin-off series' of the main franchise.
I don't necessarily need a new main-franchise game of an established series as long as the spin-off is good.
I've played big budget $70 titles on other systems and only gotten about a days' worth of play out of them before I realized they just weren't for me. So to me, those were just filler titles until something good comes along. It's all a matter of preference.
In fact, I didn't really even enjoy Xenoblade and regret listening to all of the people who claimed it was so "amazing".
And what do you mean the Wii U is too pricey for the technology it provides?? God, people are WAY too focused on "processing power" of the systems these days. The Wii U runs smoothly and gives me great gameplay. It's priced at $250.
Every Xbox released has been a crapshoot because of the dreaded red-ring problem. I've had a PS3 system that had a hard drive burn-out within the first three months of owning it. These systems retailed at $400 when I bought them.
I would gladly take a "less powerful" system that runs smoothly, is innovative and gives me a fun gaming experience over a system that MAY have slightly better graphics but releases the same games over and over. Why is there so much focus on graphics and "power" anyway? Isn't the point of a game to PLAY the game and have fun? Why do we demand a cinematic experience at the expense of game-play? Oh, right... that's why Metal Gear games always score near 9/10 or 10/10. We don't want to have to bother playing games anymore. We just want to admire them.
This whole "the system isn't powerful enough" thing has got to go as well. If I test drive a car that runs smoothly, is very comfortable and super reliable, I don't personally care how big the engine is. Does it work how I want it to work? Yes? Great!
I could be alone in this, but I just find all this so ridiculous.
@3MonthBeef
So again, we come back to the fact that Nintendo is NOT able to innovate. They just need to put out the same system that PS4 and Xbox One have because it's "easier for 3rd party developers". How do you evolve if you aren't allowed to? That's the million dollar question.
I don't bemoan their move into mobile, I really don't, I just bemoan that it is one step further away from what used to be their core business: making memorable games.
Miitomo is neither a game nor will it prove to be memorable (imho).
I have the same desire for Nintendo to be making 'social' apps, as I have for John Williams to be making ring tones. Which is not to say, that he could not do it, just that it would be a terrible waste, and a loss to the world.
I guess as long as it is good business, it does not really matter whether it could be considered a waste or not, but then again, good business is about to turn the planet into an oven ... so ... make of that what you will.
@Dakt
Again - opinions, opinions and bias!
Toad and Kirby, 2.5 hours of play? Really? To who? I got several weeks out of them. Maybe if you ONLY focus on the main story, but even then, you must be a master to be able to beat it that quickly. That is a horribly skewed number there and is exactly what I was talking about earlier about how people will throw out a random statement and number enough times until other people believe it. The loudest voice is often the most convincing.
People also forget this IMPORTANT point: If a game is, let's say 6 or 7 hours and FUN, then it has a better chance of someone coming back and replaying it. Meanwhile, if you have a game that is more of a "cinematic masterpiece" like, let's say Metal Gear (I'm not picking on it, it's just fresh in my mind) and takes you 30+ hours to beat, chances are you are never going to play it again. You'll trade it in after you slog through it once.
Nintendo makes re-playable classics. Some are long, some are shorter. If they make a shorter game, they know it. That's why they throw in a bunch of extra challenges and new modes to fill the space. But I love that about them, because the games are always fun. You can build a solid library of games with that, whereas with the beefier and lengthier games on other systems, you'll probably never revisit them again and they're destined to end up in the used game bin at a trade-in store.
And as for the tech stuff, I hate to make it sound like I'm trying to prop myself as some "expert", but I have been gaming for more than 20 years. And I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that I don't even care about or notice how many frame rates the game is running at. Or what the resolution is. Who cares?? Often times, the resolution doesn't even matter if you don't have a top-of-the-line television to play it on anyway. No one mentions this either, conveniently. If you have a "last-gen" television, then your current gen console is still not going to look as great as it could.
When I play a game, all I need to know is -
Does it run well?
Am I enjoying myself?
If the answer is YES to both, then I'm happy. I think more people need to adopt that attitude. I truly question how many people can actually, legitimately notice a "drop in frame rate" by 5 or 6 frames when they play games. Because I sure don't. I watched that analysis video of Star Fox Zero's frame rate and when the guy is pointing out his little chart with "oh and here it's at 40fps and now it's 50fps and now it's 45fps", I was sitting there squinting and rewinding the video trying to figure out the difference.
@Xenocity "I mean there is nothing on PS4 and/or Xbox One that appeals in any significant way to families, kids, women, nerds, "casuals", or whatever other type of person you can think of these days."
Im about as tired of reading this as Nintendo fans are as reading "Nintendo is only for kids". Both are such horrible generalizations and are comical and untrue.
I am a father of 2 boys, 5 and 7, and there are PLENTY of games we can enjoy as a family. From Little big Planet, Knack, Pixeljunk, Guacamelee etc there are actually more family friendly games on my ps4 than mature ones. In total there are probably 75+ games installed on my ps4 and majority are family friendly including all the 3rd party games like Disney infinity, Lego games and the like. While many are "indie games" there is still a plethora of games my kids, my wife and myself can enjoy as a family.
One of the main reasons I went with the ps4 is because of the broad spectrum of games. The kids can have a loaf of E rated fun games to play, my wife can have her puzzle games and I can have my shooters/rpgs/and more mature titles all in the same box.
Stop making generalizations!
The mainstream audience IS the causal audience. Marketing has gamers believing that its grannies and kids vs "real adult gamers tm" when its really not. Annual repeats of the same franchises, over reliance on "mature" themes to attract the kids and the vain adults, resistance to change or bright colors, brand obsession, storyline retreads. Nintendo is guilty of some of that as well but the majority of their experiences still focus on gameplay and fun. Gaming in many ways is flat-lining; recycling the same ideas with more bugs and a new coat of paint, but if you say that you are a pariah. Indies try to mix things up a bit but many just try to clone older game experiences but with poorer quality control. Its a mess all around.
That being said I'm not really sure what Nintendo can do. Brand culture makes it such that even if Nintendo comes out with everyone's wish list people will find a reason not to buy. Everyone wants Nintendo to become something they aren't even though that just means they become a copy of everybody else. The day Nintendo walks or becomes un-recognizible I'm done with gaming. However while I'll be sad, I can survive the loss of many other devs and hardware makers.
EDIT: I take that back. Nintendo can MARKET, MARKET, MARKET! I love my wiiu (I have two of em) but If I didn't keep up with Nintendo news I'd never know about half of the games out. However games for my 4, one and PC? I can ask non gaming friends and get impressions. That's not good. Nintendo needs that mindshare back. I will say I'd like to see Nintendo improve some of their hardware functionality. I like their GUI and I like miiverse but accounts tied to hardware and much of the online components need to match the other two because online is where gaming is currently.
@Ryu_Niiyama
"Brand culture makes it such that even if Nintendo comes out with everyone's wish list people will find a reason not to buy."
Well said.
I can see it now, people are saying that the Wii U "lacked a proper Zelda game and a proper Metroid game etc" and then NX will release them and people will say "typical Nintendo, just releasing a new version of ___ franchise each time and hoping people buy it. Why don't they try a different spin on the same formulas? This is the nail in the coffin of the NX".
@Dakt As a 360, X1, PS V/3/4, PC, WiiU, 3DS owner, I feel like I have to point out, that Nintendo is actually the one doing the best job of hitting that 60fps-next-gen goal as far as consoles go. Most first-party developments on other consoles have long since given up on that goal, in favour of even more flashy graphics.
I love e.g. Bloodborne, but 60fps IT IS NOT. Sure there are occassionally at least, exceptions like Halo 5, but if you look at major AAA first-party games, I don't doubt that Nintendo will come out ahead. On top of that, Nintendo has a penchant for a consistent and somewhat "clean" visual style. All in all, they have by far the most significant progress to show as far as the jump from last generation goes - admittedly, the fact that the wiiu was a glorified GC, matters alot here, but even that aside, they did manage to turn "HD" + "60fps" into something memorable on their own terms.
Nintendo games tend to look different (not bad, just different) from the competition and they tend to run smoother. That is not a small thing.
As for justifying the price of the WiiU, I will say, that sofar I feel like besides Resogun and Bloodborne, I have not gotten anything on my Ps4 I would really, really miss otherwise. If I compare that to Splatoon, MK8, Bayonetta 2 and Affordable Space Adventure, then I don't really see your point to be frank.
@3MonthBeef
Does anyone ever take into consideration how LONG an "innovative" console takes to develop? The Wii was in development for a LONG time to refine the motion controls and get the technology to the right amount of quality to release it to the public. So by then, the system is going to be weaker because the hardware hasn't changed. Are they supposed to go back and redevelop the entire system to ensure that it is completely caught up to the "power" of the current generation? Do you have any idea how long it takes to develop a new console? By the time they released a current-gen Wii, they'd be another generation behind!
@Dakt
"And again for the tech side of things, when you're talking about price, the WiiU simply doesn't deserve the asking price when it's delivering results seen in 2006."
I'm all for a discussion and accept other peoples' opinions as long as they can back them up, but as soon as someone puts forth completely ignorant and blatant lies, I no longer engage them in conversation. We're done.
As long as each generation is overall a more enjoyable experience than the last, I don't really care what direction Nintendo goes in next.
I don't care about the opinions of the "hardcore FPS" audience. I just want it to be enjoyable for me. However, that may not be best for Nintendo this time around and I want them to succeed as well.
I'm somewhere in the middle of @Vandy and @Yorumi on this subject, to be honest.
I just want Nintendo to be innovative yet successful at the same time. They are my favorite gaming company, after all.
@Vandy Ok I need lottery ticket numbers from you. You have the power to see into the future.
I don't see the same bickering in other camps like I do in Nintendo. Over here EVERYBODY is a purist about something: "proper controls, proper sequels, proper account systems", and all that infighting just kills sales more and more. I know there are hatenuts and fannuts in every camp, but nobody seems to be at eachother's throats the way the are in the Nintendo camp. It is insane.
@Project_Dolphin LBP3 by far. Level creating and easy platforming make for tons of 4 player fun! Minecraft of course. Ratchet and Clank remake has been getting a lot of spins lately as well. My wife is slowly but surely getting my kids hooked on Tertis as well lol. I still play Destiny, The Division, The Witcher 3 and the like after they go to bed but those Def get the most play
I know most don't buy a ps4 for "family games" but to say that there is nothing for families is just inaccurate.
@Ryu_Niiyama
It really is bizarre, isn't it?
I'm a member of several other forums that are non-Nintendo specific and I don't see ANY of the same toxic culture that so-called "fans" of Nintendo often display. It's such a weird thing, they are just prepared to hate anything they do and claim it comes from a "place of love". Sounds like an abusive spouse.
"I only hit you cause I love you, baby".
@Vandy I see you defending Star Fox as if it's the poster child for a game that was never given a chance. It was, and it's not a good product regardless how you slice it. The motion controls require recalibration practically all the time and the two screen system doesn't work as they made the gamepad view too limiting and it's a hassle to constantly switch between two screens. In addition, the game has very little replay value and at just over 2 hours it's hard to justify charging 60 bucks when the only bonuses you get for beating the game are minor level variations or singlular battles that are, quite frankly, uninteresting.
You also state the Wii U was doomed from the start by the court of public opinion when in reality it never had a chance as they gimped on the hardware, again, and focused on a core gimmick that they never bothered with outside a few titles. Name one game that NEEDS the gamepad, you can't think of one because there isn't one. Having a map is handy but hardly worth charging potential console owners 50 additional bucks to buy a system that's essentially a ps3.
And this is saying nothing of their dreadful release schedule full of "safe" titles that never bothered pushing the envelope. The lackluster online that treats chatting with friends as some foreign concept and an eshop that struggles to get any noteworthy titles that aren't years old. The Wii U failed not because the public marked it as such from the get go, but because it was a bad system.
As such, why is making a system similar to the competition a bad thing? People like getting a lot of games to choose from and a console too different from anyone else doesn't get much outside of exclusives. Exclusives don't matter as much as they used to and honestly Nintendo could really benefit from giving it the old college try. Sure, they lost a lot of the core audience but they lost a lot of Nintendo fans with the Wii U as well and a shot to gather at least a percentage of both is far better than further fragmenting an already jaded fanbase.
@JpGamerGuy90
I've already addressed basically everything in your post. You're just going to have to go through my previous points and read them, because I'd have to provide you with a text-wall.
@Vandy Abusive spouse. Yes! I made this comparison to a few friends of mine last week and every last one of them was like : "That's why I don't visit Nintendo sites." The Star Fox explosion is the latest example.
@Dakt
And yet it has built-in motion controls, dual-screen capablities, off-TV play, built-in NFC reader, etc.
There are a lot of other differences beyond what's "under the hood". You're being ignorant. See ya.
@Project_Dolphin "The only thing is that's not what most PS4 gamers use the PS4 for. The "mature AAA" video games get the most playing time."
I edited the last comment and added that I'm fully aware that's not what most get a ps4 for, however saying that there is nothing for families or women or nerds (I'm a huge one no shame) is just baseless and inaccurate
Damned if you Ninten-do, damned if you Ninten-don't.
@Xenocity "I mean there is nothing on PS4 and/or Xbox One that appeals in any significant way to families, kids, women, nerds, "casuals", or whatever other type of person you can think of these days. "
That's strange because just this weekend me and my stepson have been playing Lego Dimensions, Littlebigplanet 3, Tearaway, and Ratchet and Clank amongst others on my PS4.
I do like how many on here generalise what games are available the other consoles as if Nintendo has some kind of exclusivity when it comes to family friendly games. I've been a Nintendo fan since the days of the NES but the reality is Sony have at least caught up with them in terms of first party output and in many cases surpassed them, all whilst catering for a much broader audience.
@KingofSaiyanZ Took the words right out of my mouth
Please stop with the dark and gritty. It's just not true. It's the same slur others apply to Nintendo being kiddie.
They are just not giving us what we want!
Proper online with voice chat in games!
More VC so many n64 GameCube titles not released!
Old franchises brought back to life!
Buy some companies! Like Altus and platonic!
Release monster hunter on a console! (With chat)
Nintendo have no hope of attracting current gamers - with the Xbox 1.5/PS4.5 in the horizon. Nintendo have to strike a chord with the masses and Nintendo gamers.
I've owned every Nintendo console since the SNES, but I think I've had enough now. Mario Party is gone, as is Paper Mario. 2D Mario has stagnated, and the most recent 3D one was nothing special. (Mario kart is still good though, and Splatoon is great). I'm not a fan of pikmin, animal crossing, kirby or fire emblem. There have been some excellent indie games, but nothing exclusive worth buying a console for.
Unless the NX is a major runaway wii-type success that attracts a lot of interesting 3rd Party stuff, then I doubt I'll pick one up, unless I see one cheap when Splatoon 2 comes out. Unless they ruin Splatoon as well, somehow...
@Lord
The voice chat thing is a touchy subject.
I wouldn't want my child to go online to play Splatoon and be called all of the names people call each other in online chat.
I played GTA V the other day on my PS4 and there were two guys shouting the "N word" at each other and every second word was an f-bomb. (Not sure what the rules to writing swear words are here on Nintendolife) I know GTA is a mature game as it is, but the same works for some of the family-friendly Playstation games that allow you to have voice chat.
If Nintendo wants that family-friendly market, they have to make some sacrifices.
I'm saving up for a HTC Vive not an NX. What ever Nintendo has it won't be able to excite me more than VR.
All I need is a nice console from Nintendo that let's me play pikmin, Zelda, Mario and Kirby games. My ps4 is pretty much my diablo 3 console as I wait for persona 5 and final fantasy xv. The best 'gimmick' I can hope for on nx is the controller has some GameCube triggers. Time for some eternal darkness and 4 sword adventures. Well back to kirby64 on my gamepad.
@Project_Dolphin That is an interesting point and to be frank I don't have an answer for as I am not Nintendo. The only reason I even posted a comment was to this post was to refute the fact that the competing consoles have nothing but mature AAA titles.
@Lord Part of your wish list has licensing issues (VC, company buyouts). VC for games not made by nintendo still require legal contracts and even for games that are made by nintendo they have to actually code the game for wiiu VC. If they aren't recouping sales, why waste your time? Especially when you still have access to the Wii VC that likely doesn't cost much to put on offer? Company buyouts are not needed if contracts are struck with them. Atlus/Sega puts a number of games on nintendo systems...why waste the money on a buyout? Considering that buyouts often require employee restructuring and change in the way the original company did business. I'm not going to touch Voice chat. I get that some people want it, but I doubt its a game changer at all. What do you mean by proper online? The Netcode for the majority of nintendo games is solid. No drops or lag so long as your connection is solid. The franchise revival is nice in a vacuum, but if nobody is buying the games, you are throwing money down a pit (I'm a huge 1080 and waverace fan btw). Monster Hunter is a Capcom franchise...yell at them.
Honestly, are Xbone and PS4 fans the 'hardcore'? I always thought it was Nintendo that's hardcore.
It's a very serious (almost vertical) uphill battle for Nintendo. If they even want a fighting chance at winning back the casuals (or 'hardcores' whatever you wanna call them) then they absolutely NEED to offer an achievements system, game-chat, third party AAAs, and all the other services that people now take for granted
People will not abandon their Playstations for a console that does not allow them to easily connect with their friends - and that leads to what I think is their biggest problem - the fact that people are already content with their console choice. They already have their social groups.
Everyone I know that had a PS3 got a PS4, everyone I know with a 360 got an Xbox One. Because their achievements carry over, because their friends will be playing there.
I will always be a Nintendo gamer, but I think they're going to have a lot of the same problems with NX that they did with the Wii U, at least here in the UK.
@Vandy that's what everyone quotes!
The fact is voice chat can be in a game where only friends can talk to friends. So unless your in my friend list when you join our game you won't be able to hear us talking.
The importance of voice chat in games like monster hunter, and splatoon is to coordinate your attack plans and WIN!
Here is the big permeating issue for Nintendo.
The western market seems to enjoy these 3 genres of games. I would wager that at least 75% of software sales from the western gaming market come from those 3 genres of software :
1) Shooters (Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, Destiny, TitanFall, The Division, Evolve, Borderlands etc)
2) Open world games (GTA, Assassin's Creed, FarCry, WatchDogs, FallOut, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Batman, etc)
3) Realistic sports/racing simulators (FIFA, Madden, NBA 2K, WWE 2K, NHL, Need for Speed etc)
What type of software does Nintendo make?? Well, they make a lot of platformers and minigame collections. Outside of those, Mario Kart is the only relevant racing game on Wii U, but it's not realistic, nor is it a sim. Smash Bros is a fighter, but sorry, fighters aren't that popular outside of Mortal Kombat (and Smash Bros itself). Splatoon is Nintendo's first "shooter" in many, many, many years, but it is way too "kiddy." Xenoblade Chronicles X is the Wii U's first true open world game, but it is way too "Japanese" for westerners. In other words, Nintendo makes it very difficult for those who purchase western third party software to ever even consider buying a Nintendo platform, because their software and western third party software are so drastically different.
@Project_Dolphin very true and to be honest they've been doing that since the N64 to varying degrees of success. The problem for Nintendo is that the market they are looking for isn't as big as it used to be. I'll be keeping an eye on the NX (especially if Zelda is a launch title), it's just that these days I get a much wider variety on the PS4, for example Ratchet and Clank just launched, then in a couple of weeks we get Uncharted 4.
@Lord
It's still a valid point because the games aren't automatically set up for friends-only voice chat. I'm not saying you don't have a good point about games like Monster Hunter or Splatoon, but it's not crucial to the gameplay. It's just a "nice to have".
For example, I've been playing Splatoon since launch and never once felt like there'd be a significant advantage to voice chat. They gave you the "let's go" and "yeah" functions. And it's not that difficult to co-ordinate an attack if you pay attention to what's going on.
Honestly though, it's the truth. You can communicate a lot through actions and body language.
I was waiting for someone else to point out the hypocrisy of the "price point" debate from those who try to justify it, but I guess I have to do it.
If the Wii U is "the same as the PS3 and Xbox360" and "should be priced accordingly as a budget system", keep this in mind:
PS3 retailed at $500.
Xbox360 retailed at $400.
Wii U retails at $250.
No matter how you look at it, it still prices itself for the cheapskates, "appropriate" to its "last-gen hardware".
@Ryu_Niiyama thanks for your comments, VC is a game changer! When fils asked the Wii u queuing customers what they wanted most they replied GameCube VC. It can't take much to run an emulator style program and release the ninty back catalogue. I would have thought its was easy money!
And yes I'm f***ing mad at capcom fir not releasing MH4 or MH5 on a console.
Nintendo should be using miitomo to bring more awareness to new games. Just the sight of star fox on that app to a non nintendo gamer could spark that person to go buy a wii u because they remember playing it on nintendo 64. Wake up nintendo!
It's a knife edge for Nintendo- although they need the PS4 and Apple crowds, they also have to be aware of keeping what makes Nintendo 'Nintendo' so they don't lose the core base or their mythical status of producing games that stand the test of time. Quality, humour, family friendliness, innovation, and vibrancy should not be forgotten in an attempt to fight a battle in someone else's back yard.
Western gamers may accept slow, unresponsive controls, simple kill the bad guy shooters, FMV cutscenes that drag out games, fetch quests as far as the eye can see, and buggy broken launches, but none of these things are acceptable for a Nintendo product.
I think Nintendo needs to excite the kinds of people who are right now excited by the likes of Xbox One, PS4, PC, and VR if it's really going to matter in this half-next-gen. It's got its most hardcore-loyal fans but, clearly, they don't really count for much these days. It's an ever-shrinking market, and that market is also, clearly, more and more a bad judge of what's actually good for Nintendo. And, it could get all the casuals like it did with the Wii (and it could get the smartphone/tablet crowd too), but that's just playing to a market that doesn't really care what the hell it does as long as it churns out free-to-play junk that abuses them for change, which might be great for short-term cash flow but maybe not quite so great in the bigger picture. If it want's both success and respect going forward, it can't just keep going after the most hardcore-loyal Nintendo fans and casuals.
@toxibunny I'm with you. Nintendo's biggest issue is their deteriorating software quality, not hardware. I guarantee that people would only see the Wii U as a great console, not as a half-baked successor to the Wii, if Nintendo had produced a killer library for it.
Paper Mario and Mario Party are done. The future looks grim for Mario Sports titles (I don't think their quality will ever approach those of the GC era). I doubt we'll see a console Fire Emblem or Animal Crossing any time soon, if at all. It looks like they are truly unwilling to be ambitious with Star Fox, so I consider that franchise as good as dead. And they have no where left to go with Smash or Mario Kart.
The Wii U games that give me the most optimism for Nintendo's future are Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Splatoon, and Pokken Tournament. They represent three distinct, encouraging successes. TF doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, but just takes an already established formula and makes it better. With Pokken, Nintendo brilliantly adapts its IP to a new genre. And With Splatoon, Nintendo tries something completely new and supports it with a ton of extra content and marketing.
TLDR: Nintendo will do just fine if it can return to the SNES/N64/GC era's software quality & quantity. Any hardware innovations are icing on the cake with their ability to loop in newcomers to the gaming industry.
@Vandy I'm very lucky to have 9 friends who all have Wii u's my point in question is that of my 9 friends all have refused to buy splatoon on the basis that without the friend chat it's a essential missed feature.
This intern is 9 sales that Nintendo has lost beacuse of not adding a feature which if added correctly could be taken or left.
To put it in other words Mc Donnalds does not upset half its potential customers by not stocking ketchup it just has it available for those who want it.
@Lord So here is my problem with all the VC arguments (I adore VC by the way): You think that playing old games is what sells new systems? It really isn't. I've sat in on enough manager meetings and marketing meetings for gamestop to know that that isn't what sells. VC is a great feature and I used to market the heck out of it as such when I worked for gamestop but it isn't the game changer. Besides, between the Wii VC and the current WiiU VC it isn't as barren as people like to purport it is.
People didn't buy the ps4 because it played old games; they bought it because Sony hyped it so much that people thought that it was the most amazing game console ever made. Its not...but Sony got the sells so they are laughing all the way to the bank. Nintendo would have better sells and likely less legal troubles with remakes and hd offerings of games. The zelda remakes all sell well...even the pikmin wii ports did alright. Sony did that during the ps3 gen and it looks like they are bringing that back some with the 4. Even Sony's PSN versions of old games aren't that large of an library. People may see old games as a feature set, but they would rather see a sequel or a remake (or HD port) first.
@Zapazoid good point, it feels like the top half of faults, starfox lack of effort, mario cash ins, crappy little micro games all are comming from shiggy and the new and adventurous titles are coming from up and coming producers. Even the new CEO said our future is with our youngbloods! Step aside shiggy and stop holding the company back!
@Lord
It's a well-known fact in any business -
Sometimes you have to fire the customer.
If your "9 friends" are so fickle that something as minor as lack of voice chat is enough to scare them off from purchasing a genuinely fantastic game, then perhaps they are not the right kind of audience to cater to. If it wasn't the voice chat, they'd find another issue with the game.
I have the same number of friends who absolutely love Splatoon and have convinced their own family members to buy it and play it. In fact, some of them think there is MORE charm in the fact you can only communicate through "YEAH!" and "LET'S GO!"
There is no right or wrong opinion here. Just like the exclusion of voice chat is most certainly not "make or break"
The wii appealed to the mainstream and was a huge success. and what happened? you N64kids cried, attacked it, called it a "fad" and "4 da kazualz" like the first dumb commenter and still do. You guys are absurd.
Yes, Nintendo need to attract the mainstream and that includes gamers, lapsed gamers and non-gamers. And if that means that they should ignore the poisonous and destructive N64kids...by all means IGNORE THEM.
@Dakt
Ok, pick a stance then. Should the Wii U be priced according to the hardware specs or should it be priced according to your opinion of whether the library is worth it or not? You're flip-flopping all over the place. It's one or the other.
@Dakt
I already did and you referred to me as a "mandchild" because I reminded you that there is more to consider about the Wii U than just the specs under the hood.
Also, you haven't bothered to read or consider my previous point about how it takes time to develop innovative consoles. So Wii U was being developed during last gen to include things that, quite frankly, blow last-gen consoles out of the water. Unfortunately, PS4 and XboxOne were released before Wii U which dated the console. Nintendo wasn't going to go back and RE-develop their console at the time as it would only result in them STILL being a generation behind.
If you're going to argue that Wii U "as a device" is not worth the asking price, then you need to take your crusade to car manufacturers. As long as every car simply has the same type of engine and fuel system, they should be priced the same, regardless of options and technology.
@Ryu_Niiyama I agree and I beg to differ! The VC will not sell consoles on its own, but as a package its part of its unique selling point. Imagine if the NX is announced that it will have no VC!
Or
Imagine if it is announced to have cloud access to decades of nintendos ip's.
Just look at what rare replay did for Xbox one. I know 4 people who just bought one for that game.
MONSTER HUNTER NX WITH VOICE CHAT!
@Dakt What does that matter though? There won't anymore WiiU games anyways, what you see is pretty much what you will get (+ what will come later this year obviously). I'm just saying, that depending on your taste and preferences, the WiiU is worth it or not ... but if you are going with not, I'm not sure what the NX can do for you or anyone. I've seem the WiiU (esp. the basic edition earlier on) dip below the 200€ mark. I feel there is sufficient high quality content on the system, to warrant that price if you are into said type of content, meaning first-party nintendo games.
If you are talking about the market as such, then obviously those games qualify as "too little, too late" esp. with the lack of 3rd party support. The WiiU is not a good choice as your only gaming device, that much cannot be argued.
IF it is Nintendo games you are after, the WiiU has some excellent experience to offer, that will please you, and will not make you regret getting the system.
But yeah, most consumers (at least, if we consider the Wii the statistical baseline for Nintendo henceforth) were looking for something else ... no doubt about that. I fully grasp why the WiiU failed in the mainstream market. It's just that this has not necessarily much of any bearing to me or to you.
If e.g. you have a PS4 standing around, what do you care if an inferior version of Fifa XX is published on the WiiU or not?
Sure more games are always better, but quality ought to top quantity, after all, we all only got so much time to waste anyways, right? ^^
All of that is to say, that such a thing as "playing it safe" seems hardly possible in an enviroment, that has apparently chosen to abandon all rules, once thought to be eternal. Just look at the PS4.5 "Neo" ...
@Yorumi
You mean like touch screens being a fad and not as successful as "normal" consoles?
I hate Nintendo and any studio to just make gimmicky tech demos and not focus on gameplay and original ideas. As consumers though, I feel we should support both odd tech and original content. No they shouldn't shoehorn motion controls on old properties if they don't work. If I have to choose though, between and old property and new gameplay ideas, weird input device included, then goodbye old properties, hello new IP.
@Dakt
You do realize that Wii U's also include two full AAA retail games with them, right? Which also reduces the so-called "ridiculous" asking price.
I'm sorry man, but I can't do this with you anymore. You've devolved into a lot of the other people who turn into these anti-Nintendo zealots. You figure that if you throw out enough numbers enough times and yell the loudest, that you will be the "winner". Meanwhile, literally 99% of the things you say come down to preference and/or bias. I'm out. I'll concede because I know there is no reasoning with you and I don't personally care what you think of this discussion anymore.
@Xenocity
Apart from your usual unsourced fantasy figures, how on Earth do you expect to be taken seriously when you put this?
"I mean there is nothing on PS4 and/or Xbox One that appeals in any significant way to families, kids, women, nerds, "casuals", or whatever other type of person you can think of these days."
Ratchet and Clank was only released this week. What about Tearaway Unfolded, Rare Replay, Singstar, Kinect Sports Rivals, Ori and the Blind Forest, Knack, Hasbro Family Fun Pack, Little Big Planet 3, Peggle, Minecraft, Just Dance, Unravel, Zoo Tycoon, Lego games, Skylanders, Disney Infinity etc.etc.?
The Wii U is dead. Star fox was the last true release. I'm winding mine down and flogging the games. Role on E3!
@Vandy
"PS4 and XboxOne were released before Wii U"
Eh?
Does anybody know who @Minotaurgamer is talking to? Or talking about?
@Lord Ok, but that isn't what you said originally. You said that: "VC is a game changer! When fils asked the Wii u queuing customers what they wanted most they replied GameCube VC. It can't take much to run an emulator style program and release the ninty back catalogue. I would have thought its was easy money! "
That isn't saying its a feature set; (which is what I said in my own rebuttal to you) you were saying that VC on its own is a "game changer" and then you went and made speculation about VC being cheaper to produce.
I'm happy to discuss, but you can't keep changing the goal posts here. So I'll repeat my point: VC is a great feature... but it isn't a game changer. Nintendo would be better served sells wise with remakes or hd ports of popular franchises. And the VC catalog if you combine both wiiu VC and Wii VC isn't small. I personally don't feel the WiiU VC is small...just smaller than the Wii one. Still not a major selling point. It is a selling point however...just not a major one.
Nostalgia sells...I'm not arguing that...but that only sells to a select market which are getting older and aging out of the marketing demographic (not the BUYING one the MARKETING one). However that isn't what gets systems flying off shelves. For your friends that bought ones for rare replay; is that all they are playing or are they looking at some shiny new games as well?
@electrolite77 Its a audience wide statement remarking on how the wii got the causal backlash. I think he is using N64kids because those gamers saw the gamecube as an evolution of the 64 and the wii as a betrayal of that. That is all I heard when the wii came out personally so I think there is some merit to his statement. But I'm not him so that's just what I got from it.
@Vandy
You mentioned voice chat. Online multiplayer is definitely an area where Nintendo can improve. I wouldn't want my kid to listen to all the online negativity but I'd love for Nintendo to implement friend chat with their future online multiplayer games as well as an option to keep my kid from friending random people.
@brandonbwii
Oh, absolutely. I never disputed that it was an area for improvement. I just said it was something they needed to be cautious about, given their desire to ensure that they are more often than not family-friendly.
I think a friend chat is a great idea. Open chat ... ehhh not so much.
@Project_Dolphin ok I need someone to explain this to me. As I am a woman and half of the time I don't really get what guys constitute as "kiddie". I agree that the sentiment of the gamecube's time was that it was "kiddie". However, I never understood why. The controller was "traditional" in the number of buttons and ease of use, the library was fairly diverse and the system had a number of breakout ips and updates to popular n64 franchises. Playing games (all games) begins from childhood and thus honestly any game can be construed as kiddie. "Kiddie" to me is something that is designed for someone with a lower cognitive level due to age such as an edutainment game or game based on a children's (usually young) program. After that its all pretty much the same spectrum to me. Yes that includes mature games. I don't really consider half baked plots to be mature just because they have violence or sexual themes in them...which is why so many children play them.
@brandonbwii Totally agree, but the NX does need to have the big 3rd party games as well. In a perfect world I would love to have the quirkiness of Nintendo and other devs while still having the option of not missing the AAA games.
@Mr_Zurkon
How much of this is Nintendo's fault though? I said it in an earlier point, but there's the issue of Nintendo wanting to do something innovative, but then the 3rd party developers just cross their arms and say "this is too hard" so they abandon the console.
So how does Nintendo please the 3rd party devs WITHOUT going the Sony and Microsoft route and just releasing the exact same console as each other?
@Vandy That's why I said in a perfect world the NX need to be able to be ported too easily while at the same time having a creative hook of some sort.
As far as blame? who knows and in the end it doesn't matter. I just hope Nintendo can right itself with the next home console, whatever it and it does.
@WiiUPS4Gamer No phone gaming? Without Tetris and Clash Royale, my time on the toilet would be incredibly boring.
The "mainstream" whatever that means, is NEVER coming back to Nintendo. Why would they?
@RobNYC1977 If nintendo continues with the same (lack of) marketing campaign as they currently do then I would agree. They really need to step up the media campaign for NX. I remember seeing commercials for Wii U and thinking "What the heck is this thing?" the ad message was so far off target and a muddled.
I can't imagine what it must be like to develop new ideas at Nintendo.
"We want something new and different"
Gives them something new and different
"We hate this, change it back!"
Changes it back
"OMG this again? Same old rehash! Change up the formula"
Changes the formula to release a remixed, enhanced version
"This is a betrayal of the classic formula!"
And the Circle Of Strife continues.
I think the biggest thing Nintendo need to consider in the next generation is proper marketing. They need to invest in some proper marketing for both their consoles and their games. Look at what Blizzard are doing with Overwatch for example. People love Nintendo's iconic franchises and it's the one thing, I think, they have over the competition.
Btw @carlos82 is Ratchet and Clank good? I've been watching videos and it looks pretty stunning plus the reviews seem to be positive but just another gamer's opinion might sway me Not really that I need anymore games right now lol
Because people don't take risks...
http://i0.wp.com/memecollection.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/bad-luck-wii-u-meme.jpg?resize=610%2C396
@Ryu_Niiyama For the GameCube specifically, it was the fact that it was a tiny purple box with a handle. It looked like it was something you'd carry Hello Kitty dolls around in, and the discs looked like something a toddler would stick into a toy computer. Personally, I'm not insecure enough to be deterred by "kiddie" aesthetics in my games or gaming devices, but there are clearly many male gamers who simply can't bring themselves to walk into a store and say "yes, I'll take one of those consoles that looks like a Fisher Price toy, and a copy of that game starring a cute dinosaur made of yarn."
I know this because I used to be one of those male gamers. I was 17 when GameCube released, and I missed that entire generation from Nintendo because I didn't want my friends to think I was lame for playing anything other than Doom and Duke Nukem. Fortunately, I grew up and came to my senses, and I couldn't care less about the ridicule my gaming choices bring my way. But practically none of my male friends, co-workers, or relatives who still play games ever came back around to accepting Nintendo as a legitimate producer of quality video games. They play things like Call of Duty and GTA pretty much exclusively, and most of them willingly admit that they just think Nintendo is for children only, even though they haven't played a single game from Nintendo in almost twenty years.
@Ryu_Niiyama I agree. I do think Nintendo needs to evolve, but I don't think it should evolve into a gaming console that just mimics the mainstream. It needs to excite people with products like Splatoon, not release stuff like Color Splash or Mario Tennis.
@Vandy Not sure where you live, but MSRP for Wii U bundles that include a game like MK8 or 3D World is $300 at all major retailers. Meanwhile PS4 bundle with a game is $350 MSRP at these same retailers. Not that much of a gap in price.
@greengecko007
You're absolutely right, unless it's around a holiday or special sale. My friend got the Mario Kart 8/Splatoon bundle for $270 CDN.
I'm just using $250 as an example because that's what other people are always throwing out as the MSRP.
@Vandy And there you go again with your sweeping generalizations.
What I don't get is that people like you don't understand that there is a right and wrong way to innovate. With the way Ninty has pissed off many of their old fans this generation, I find it astounding that people like you still manage to completely miss the point. The market WASN'T saturated with enough Star Fox games to warrant them to "innovate" (read: muck up) the game's control scheme.
You liked the new Star Fox's new, "innovative" controls? Well, good for you and the few handful of people that seem to think that as well! But damn, stop talking like you're this almighty messiah that has got the whole games industry figured out and is here to save said industry. It's getting really annoying.
@Project_Dolphin, @-DEMISE- Bright colors are kiddie? I know men are likely to be more colorblind than women but how do y'all view the world? Grey and Brown?
I can't speak for the commercials as I pretty much stopped watching TV around 2000 (sports and college prep took precedence) but I do remember seeing gamecube games in gaming magazines.
The disc could fit in a kids hand? So can a cartridge or a dvd ...how big are your hands man?! Even if you mean that the disc fits in the palm of their hand; my hand isn't that much smaller than a dvd and its not like you need to be able to change out games single handed.
The ps2/gcn era was the era of mascots (instead of just two and some knockoffs) ...ratchet and clank, tak, i ninja, jax and daxter, crash bandicoot.
No "mature" games? Resident evil remakes (so good they got another port to current gen), Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes, Killer 7, Eternal Darkness and others... The shape of the system? It sits on a shelf (I loved that it was small because I could toss it in a backpack and take it to friend's houses for tournaments)... and the system had a number of colors (I have the jet black variant but wanted the orange one).
This sounds like blue toy, pink toy syndrome on steroids. And while I still don't "understand", your explanations make this extremely funny. I've asked men before but they sorta ramble and then just repeat that Nintendo is kiddie, which never answered my question. Thank you for that.
@roboshort I'm not going to pass judgement on Color Splash till it comes out and I play it, but I know its a touchy subject for some. I agree on Mario Tennis... I was waiting on that game and it was was too barebones for my taste.
@Vandy That's fine. If you look hard enough for something you want, you're bound to find good deals and sales. Personally, I haven't seen the MK8 plus Splatoon bundle anywhere near me since the holidays (looked online at retailers and still couldn't find it available). I don't agree with throwing out numbers that make it look like, in a normal situation, somebody would be paying $150 more for an Xbox One or PS4 than they would a Wii U.
@G_M
So you accuse me of making "sweeping generalizations". I look through your post history to find out that all you do is make sweeping generalizations of your own about how "Ninty has pissed off many of their old fans this generation". And I happen to be one of the "old fans" since back to the NES days.
The only appropriate response to this is:
Derp.
@Dakt Oh, please. Don't waste your breath. This is one of those people that would follow Nintendo to the very end, regardless of whether the company makes logical decisions or not.
A "Nintendrone", if you will.
There's no point in arguing with people that don't think before opening their mouth.
@Wallkick03 Can you say it louder for the people in the back?
Honestly, Nintendo will not see a golden age anymore. With the Wii, they were lucky but that's it. How can a company continue into success having made so many mistakes in their lifetime and doing nothing to fix them? Nintendo didn't have third party support in the N64 days, nor in the NGC, nor the Wii, nor the Wii U. Is it really that crazy to think otherwise with the NX? Nintendo is simply not a company to fix mistakes like Sony did with the PS3. You can't become successful that way. You can't just run away from criticism and act like it doesn't exist.
@Ryu_Niiyama
If people took risks, they would be glad. Yes, the advertising stunk, but YOU NEED TO TAKE RISKS PEOPLE!! Get out of your "bubble of comfort" if you will and try new things. To be innovative, you must be different!
@EngieBengie
Because my upper post.
In many ways, Nintendo products, for hardcore gamers anyway, is very much an elitist thing to begin with. The systems hardly ever drop in price (maybe 50 dollars here and there every few years?) and the software always remains at premium levels until the Selects come out (but most people who are Nintendo fans already have those games). I don't like software dropping in price so fast though, I get very pissed knowing that a PS4 game I want will be half price in a few months, but I do bite quite often at full price enough. But I am always a bargain gamer. Always have been, but I got entranced this generation by the Wii U and PS4. My wallet and bank account isn't happy, but whatever. I'm a gamer and love games and wanted, for the first time since I was a teenager, enjoy games when they came out. I guess online play adds to that mindset.
These are strange times in the video game world, and it's exciting. Perhaps more to browse websites like this than actually purchasing all the garbage that is thrown our way... and I find stuff like Miimoto, etc, as total schlock and garbage to be honest with you. Amiibo's too.
I'm fine if rather indifferent with Nintendo being on mobiles, but it needs to be games suited to touch. Not rubbish virtual d-pads and the like. Real hardware controls will always be best for most genres, and that's why real consoles will always be my pick.
I'd like to see the 3DS get updated with better quality screens, better touch on the bottom screen, and retaining compatibility back to the DS.
The fundamental design of the 3DS and especially the New 3DS with it's stable 3D is solid, IMO. There's no reason to go nuts with crazy ideas. Just gradually improve.
@Project_Dolphin
People just need to accept that Nintendo won't change or go with the flow, they have (mostly) stayed with their roots, and will forever
Nintendo has a lot of challenges to get back into the mainstream gaming mindshare. While I don't necessarily feel they need to have every third party developers on board, they do need some and they need to find an identity for the system beyond first party game player.
For example, they need to ensure that Capcom, Bandai-Namco (or is it Namco-Bandai this week), Platinum Games, Sega/Atlus, and other Japanese developers are fully on board with the NX. They need titles like Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Persona, Bayonetta, and Dark Souls to fill out what Nintendo themselves are not good at.
Nintendo does not make games with mature content - what I mean by mature content is not violence, but content that is suitable for adults. Look at Life is Strange on PC and other consoles and you will understand why. Sometimes a game does not need to be high in review scores - it just need to suit the target audience. That is no point to an adult player when a game has a perfect score for kids.
@Project_Dolphin Sometimes I wish my brother and I were closer in age because this is fascinating in a train wreck sort of way (Then again he never liked games so might be a moot point). I don't know a single female gamer that feels this way. And the women the I know that don't like gaming? It is because they feel gaming in general is kiddie, just like any other activity from childhood. Which I agree with, but I don't think that when you become an adult its an end to fun...so I still play video games.
@Ryu_Niiyama
I saw your 3ds friend code, since I agree with much of your arguments (If not all) here's mine: 1478-3214-6003
I think one thing that people forget is that Nintendo is an entertainment company. They produce what is popular and then move on when it no longer works for them. Its why they are over a century old. Nintendo is more likely to go "well we tried all these things but the clientele isn't there" and move on to something else (this is the only way I can see them getting into smartphone design) and keeps bits of the old products. Hence them still making cards (both trump and hanafuda).
@Wallkick03 Cool! I'll add you later! My NNID is my username without the underscore if you have a wiiu.
Well-written piece. I think Nintendo knows what they need to do to thrive in this market. The curiosity for me is, what is their plan to succeed in this market, while also creating something that's distinctly "Nintendo?" I can't wait to see what they've created with NX.
@Ryu_Niiyama
I do. I is captawesome2
@Ryu_Niiyama
Give me a couple, my internet terrible, and isn't working for some reason
People saying the SNES didn't have gimmicks: explain to me the SNES mouse and Super Scope 6.
@Ryu_Niiyama
I'll add you ASAP
@Ryu_Niiyama
I'll add you ASAP
Having just read everything all in one go, from top to bottom... curiouser and curiouser...
@Moon Agreed. Social gaming is what drives a lot of system purchases now. I am literally the only person I know that didn't buy my one and 4 because my friends have them (I'm too cheap to pay for the online except during the summer for fighting games) and I have major buyer's remorse on both. Not enough to trade them in (because that is against my religion lol) but I don't play them nearly as much as anything else in my home.
I think it's the marketing that doomed the WiiU not the system itself. Even a year or two after release a lot of people thought it was an add-on for the Wii. And this was gamers, people who should have known it was the new console.
I hope Nintendo don't throw the baby out with the bath water 👶🏽
@gatorboi352 NES had them too. Rob, power glove (I want one soo badly...yes I'm an adult), I had the NES advantage and there was a joystick that my mom used for solar jetman...I can't remember the name. But then again so did the genesis...what was the ring that you stood in and would kick and punch to make movement happen on the screen? I consider ddr and beatmania to be "gimmicks" for later generations as well.
@gatorboi352
Totally, and the SNES pad was a revelation at the time. I still get goose bumps when I pick one up.
@Ryu_Niiyama I'm not going to pass judgment either.. I just highly doubt it will get the gaming community excited even if it is a really good game because it isn't innovative enough.
@Project_Dolphin Umm. No.. Splatoon did a lot for WiiU sales. In Japan, it had a huge impact, though the impact wasn't as large elsewhere. They need more games that can do that.
@Fandabidozi I stand by that wholeheartedly. The marketing was terrible! I liked the E3 reveal of the system and nintendo land because I like theme parks, but after that it just...died. I have gotten more friends to buy wiiu systems via word of mouth and letting them play mine and all I can think of my childhood when kids practically got into fights over sonic and mario. Pokemon was so invasive I kept a hand drawn map with catch locations on me during middle school. I remember marketing where you felt like you HAD to have that game or your life was going to end. I cried when I got my n64 and mario 64 and didn't sleep when oot came out. Smash bros marketing was so good that it got me to take a chance on the sequel when I didn't like the first one. I know that type of marketing still works because Sony and Apple and Google/android and samsung do it to adults everyday. Nintendo needs to get some fresh marketing blood.
@Ryu_Niiyama I don't know where you live, but in the US and a lot of other western countries, there's a certain level of masculinity that a lot of boys/men feel they have to maintain. I'm not saying I agree with it or care about it, just trying to answer your questions.
@roboshort Oh it won't because people will either go "they changed it, it sucks", or "its more of the same, it sucks". I was excited by what I saw personally but I'm also not a member of the Church of the Thousand Year Door. So I'm ok with the franchise going in new directions.
@-DEMISE- Southern US here. Its just I'm female and I had my own conformity issues I had to deal with gaming growing up and I don't have any male siblings close to me in age. For me gaming growing up was something my mom and I did together. And my neighborhood didn't have many kids and I always had all the systems (It really helps when your mom plays too). So to be honest with you, for me gaming was as "feminine" as wearing a dress. It was (and still is) a mother/daughter thing to me. I later learned that isn't the norm but once that is locked in your formative years it doesn't go away. But it was a shock to boys when I would go to school and talk about games. Girls played with me until I was around 11 or so and then the focus became boys and girls became rivals with each other. I'm homosexual so I never fell into that phase (besides I had bigger problems...southern US) and I found I could like girls and games (not girls in games because its sad how many games portray women but it is getting better) at the same time just fine. I only have one friend from childhood that still games but she doesn't do so as much because she has a family. The rest of my female gamer friends I met as an adult. Like I said it was interesting to hear your explanation...still don't get it, but how can I? Most of what you explained is deeply rooted in male culture. I don't get why males aren't "allowed" to cry either. I just wanted to hear the viewpoint, that's all. Thanks again!
I think Nintendo would have a hard time convincing people to switch over from Xbox/PlayStation regardless of what they do. I think western third party support is either a lost cause, or something that would take several years to fix (ie not in one generation).
PS4.5 will hurt NX (and Xbox One for that matter) not directly, but due to it likely resulting in a price drop of the base PS4. A $250 PS4 will sell like crazy, and even more so during the holidays.
Also, I think Nintendo's own IPs are becoming less relevant (Pokemon being a massive exception obviously). People aren't engaging with Nintendo IPs, and aren't being exposed to them, which is resulting in a general lack of interest. This is mostly due to Nintendo sort of retreating into their shell with said IPs. There's a reason why they've been saying that they need to be more aggressive with their IPs. There's a reason why they're making mobile games and doing licensing deals like more merchandising and the Universal theme park deal. They absolutely have to get people engaging with their IPs again.
I love nintendo...every console they made (except for the Virtual Boy) is in my house, and I never regreted any of them.
For those individuals that are busting on Sony and Microsoft though, and I'm sorry to say that I loved the PS3 and love the PS4 (didn't care much for the PSONE or PS2), the 'same' games are not what draws people in...and I'm sorry to say that the 'same' game routine also works with nintendo (Smash, Mario Kart, Kirby, Yoshi, Zelda...etc). The thing that drove me to Sony was their exclusives, which is the same thing that drives me to nintendo systems. Most people think nintendo is just a kiddie-company...this could be true, but they have made other games in various genres (Spirit Camera, Eternal Darkness, Wonderful 101 and more)...it's just that when they make something that isn't the same...it ends up flopping or being forgotten about (Doubt we'll see another Fling Smash).
The thing that hurt the Wii U and the 3DS when they were first released, was their horrible launch line up. There wasn't many great games available, and it took almost a year in both's life cycles for something to come out. Mario platformers, Mario Kart and Smash shouldn't take that long for the release on a new console...it's some of their sellers...and just look at Zelda U...it's been in production now and talked about since the Wii U was first mentioned in nintendo power...and it still has yet to be released.
I really hope nintendo wins with this next console. I'm actually ready for it and can't wait to see what it is and what nintendo has planned for it!
@IceClimbers
I agree with everything your saying. I think NX could be a natural second console for a lot of people, I'm sure the Wii was.
Also Pokemon is a powerhouse and has a special place for a whole generation(s). Nintendo really need to push Pokemon way up front for NX.
I still just say "Nintendo", referring to any Nintendo Console.
Nintendo needs that branding, again.
muh evil mainstream gamers
DAE innovation???
@Ryu_Niiyama Thanks for sharing all that! I'm 32, the youngest of five kids. I was born into a family that had a couple of gaming systems already, and we got the NES when I was five. So gaming and my love of Nintendo are equally natural to me. But the pressure to fit in, and I guess probably even my own tastes during that time, drove me to seek out what I perceived to be more "serious" games during my teenage years. It wasn't a really long phase, fortunately. My love for Nintendo couldn't be suppressed forever!
But I think that a lot of boys and men really do make their pop culture choices based on how masculine or "cool" they seem, gaming included. I'm really lucky in that my wife loves Nintendo as much as I do, and she doesn't care that I'm a nerd, so we both have someone to share the Nintendo passion with and kind of support each other in our devotion to the brand.
That said, I do own some non-Nintendo systems, and I still play a lot of the more graphic, adult-oriented games. But I'm no longer concerned about walking into a GameStop and asking for a copy of a game like Kirby's Epic Yarn and having people think I'm immature or something.
Nintendo's been doong a hell of a lot of mainstreaming this generation already, what with them desperate to win back the mobile crowd as well instead of just focusing on the core fanbase that they've been steadily losing over the years.
Games like Splatoon, Star Fox Zero, Metroid FedFo, the two recent Fire Emblem games, etc etc. All were made specifically to appeal to the mainstream first and the fans later.
Nintendo shall reign once again; they ought too! Being an army greater than the children armies on rival consoles, we shall make the NX a success once again. Myself as an example converted at least 75 people to buy Wii U's who did not know about the system just by explaining and showing trailers of Splatoon to them! We can make Nintendo Great again and all it takes is our huge community to branch out to others when the NX launches instead of late in its lifespan!
I can go into a shop and buy Yoshi and Kirby and Animal Crossing and even New Style Boutique if I wanted it. I am 34. I am a man. If a game is good it's good. And I like playing good games. I am confident in what I do and what I like. If someone looks at me and thinks 'kiddie' I look at him and think 'stupid'.
@Ryu_Niiyama
I entered you. You want to put my name as Wallkick03. See you soon!
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that just pleasing Nintendo fans hasn't gotten the company anywhere.
@earthboundlink I'm with you buddy!
The worst thing nintendo could do is release a Nintendo that is the same as PS4 and Xbox One. Nobody thats happy with their ps or xbox is going to buy another console to play the same games they already have access to. Nintendo needs 3rd party support yeah, but it needs to be different too, or the however million ps players out there wont buy it and those are the people nintendo needs to entice to buy a nintendo console.
Nintendo should start exciting the hardcore fans.
I love Nintendo... but I am certain the NX is going to fail even worse than the Wii U did. I don't see them doing and open console, that can play third party titles and BluRay discs and so on. I see them trying some weird gimmick and failing miserably.
I used to buy Nintendo consoles on launch day or as soon as I could. I won't anymore. Wii U has amazing games but it is not on the same level as a PS4, not even close.
yawn
I'm getting bored of talking about how Nintendo's in financial trouble or they're not doing as good or whatever.
@Vandy Last I checked, Xbox One's were being sold for $300-350, PS4's for $350-400, and Wii U's for $250-300, depending on the package deal. Even a $50 difference is only a stone's throw in the tech world, and the preference is obvious when that $50 is the only separation from a product which would commonly be perceived as a huge upgrade. The Wii U was in desperate need of a price drop long ago. Nintendo hasn't done it because they're just eking out whatever tiny profits are left, while preparing for NX. Nintendo doesn't care about the Wii U's poor placement in a too high price bracket anymore.
And most people who dislike motion controls don't do so because they're different, but because of the way they're often implemented. It's difficult to find genuine examples where motion controls really shine. Star Fox Zero's controls, in particular, are basically just a dual screen, somewhat more accurate version of Lair's Six Axis controls leftover from the original PS3 boomerang controller concept. If it controlled more like the Metroid Arena in Nintendo Land in certain sections, but without needing to look at the Gamepad screen to aim (except optionally when bombing), I doubt it would have received the same ire. Perhaps, SF Zero also should have focused more upon classic style on rails sections and boss battles, and match the controls to the design of the vehicle, rather than shoehorning the new controls in for everything, contradicting the vehicle design.
In the same way, if more games used the Nintendo Land Zelda Quest's use of the Motion Plus Wiimote, the control scheme would probably be much more well received. But instead, that wasn't truly utilized elsewhere, and only a few titles like The Conduit and Swords and Soldiers gave us a taste of what a pointer controller could do for making new, yet intuitive control schemes for popular genres.
Nintendo keeps bungling those opportunities, over and over again. It's not the consumers who hold any blame here. It's all on Nintendo, and some on third parties.
@hoshinosammy
"I'm getting bored of talking about how Nintendo's in financial trouble or they're not doing as good or whatever."
Right?
Nintendo could release Super Mario Galaxy 3 and it could be hailed as the greatest game ever, met with universal acclaim and 100/100 scores across the board. Every critic on earth could collectively join together and call it the crowning achievement of gaming.
And people would still say "ya but its probably the final nail in the (whichever Nintendo system) coffin. did you see they under-performed in profits last quarter they are in trouble now"
@Vandy
Exactly~
Since NX will likely use the new AMD Polaris GPU architecture, we can be sure that NX will have a similar opportunity as the Gamecube did to bring in lots of third party support this time around. This will be the crucial factor in bringing a mainstream audience back to Nintendo.
The Wii was well executed as a one hit wonder for it's time in the mainstream audience, and I doubt Nintendo will be able to pull off a similar sort of success in the same way again. A solo first party effort won't be enough this time around.
Nintendo is covering mobile using the capital alliance with DeNA, but Nintendo is merely chasing the mainstream market in that case, rather than opening up a new market which didn't exist before, like with the Wii and DS. The NX is where Nintendo must create that opportunity, and they must be willing to sign more deals favoring third parties to round out their future library. Of course, though, they should continue to refuse ridiculous deals like the one attached to EA's Origin.
And ADVERTISE this time around! Go back to the N64 era policy of spending at least $100 for every console shipped on marketing! For crying out loud, you can't compete with larger companies by forcing a self-imposed austerity budget like the Wii U marketing situation had.
Nintendo can't count on the hardcore audience when they keep meddling with games in unneeded and unwanted ways, call it censoring or localizing whatever but those hardcore people don't buy the game when it's done.
I see people saying "not buying it" and it frustrates me because the games are still good but memes from reddit and cut content do ruin the experience.
Here's a real reason why a person can hate Nintendo: They can.
When half the time they think of Nintendo for the social aspect of community when they say "Nintendo is dumb" & the other half they think of the capitalistic aspects of the corporation when they say "Nintendo is dumb", There's just so many ways you can interpret Nintendo for what they are or may be that you will never have answers to the biggest questions regarding the corporate entity be the most perfectly unbiased opinions ever express-able by man.
There will always be ways to take any of these Brits in the comments and expose the ways they lean for the hypocrisies they could pander to, whether to the left or to the right.
@Project_Dolphin This is just anecdotal, but my friend I've known for over 10 years now, since high school, is a longtime PC purist who barely touches anything other than a keyboard/mouse or arcade fighting stick these days. He sees Xbox One and PS4 as just inferior PC's with a limited environment and limited selection. Yet he was interested in Wii U because of it's unique titles, as well as exclusives like Mario Kart 8 and Pokken Tournament. Ultimately, he didn't get a Wii U, though not because of having to use the Gamepad, but rather because he was disappointed in how Nintendo handled the control schemes and the Wii U environment/infrastructure.
I suspect that may be the case for many others. Many people are probably more disappointed in how Nintendo handles their own motion control schemes and system infrastructure, rather the the existence of the motion controls themselves. It's belittling of others who criticize the way motion controls are often implemented, to say that they're all simply stone walls who cannot be moved and are completely rigid on the matter.
The Kinect and Arc/Move failed because they were poorly conceived and poorly implemented. Back when my friend played his PS3, he jumped on the Arc/Move right away to try it out. What he found was a less than stellar implementation of what it promised. I suspect many others experienced the same regret- not everyone simply rejected the Xbox and Playstation motion controls outright, but because word of mouth spread like wildfire that they were poorly conceived and poorly implemented. So eventually, most people learned to avoid them.
Most people are open to new things, if they can genuinely bring new benefits. The problem isn't the new things themselves, it's that they rarely work as well as promised, or they're just plain poorly explained and justified, which builds wariness and distrust in the consumer base.
@Yorumi Nintendo's success with Gimmicks is largely open for interpretation. I'm assuming the "One" successful gimmick you're talking about is the Wii's motion control but virtually every innovation in modern gaming controllers is owed to Nintendo. They were the first to use: The diamond patterned four button layout, shoulder buttons, the trigger, the rumble pack, the power pad, The first pressure sensitive thumb stick, and the list goes on and on... Even the standard D-pad is another one of Nintendo's "Gimmicks". So I think their success with gimmicks is debatable to say the least.
If we're talking about exciting the hardcore Nintendo fan base, Nintendo doesn't need to do anything. Hardcore Nintendo fans are excited by almost all Nintendo products because they are Nintendo products.
The core gaming fan base has been turned off to many of Nintendo's products for many years now because Nintendo clearly has no interest in appealing to them, Nintendo continues to focus their products towards non core gaming casuals, trying to get back the audience they lost with the Wii, which they are never getting back because casuals don't care about consoles anymore.
Even the HTC Vive, currently the most advanced motion controlled commercially available gaming platform, is mostly appealing to core gamers and VR enthusiasts, not casuals.
@earthboundlink Well, for me, price DOES matter to some degree. I mean, if the Wii U's price was slashed to half/two-thirds of what it currently is, it would be far more appealing.
Hey, remember when the SNES was released and everyone debated over what kind of processing power was under the hood and all the technical specs and droned on endlessly over the frame-rate? Man, I remember people getting so heated over the resolution of Super Mario World and whether the 9/10 review should be lowered to an 8.5 or possibly even an 8.4 because of the lack of multi-player features and achievements. And talk about that price point! What were they thinking?
It's a good thing gamers never lost sight of the fact that the most important thing is whether or not you're having fun.
@Vandy Different people have different desires and tastes. What a shock. For me, I love my 2DS and there are so many awesome games for it, especially RPGs. The Wii U, on the other hand, doesn't have that much that appeals to me.
@Vandy
Were you even alive during the SNES era? People argued all the time back then over which system was more powerful.
How do we determine who is a hardcore gamer and who isn't? I think the industry as a whole has transitioned to a place where FPS games rather than platformers have become the norm. I'm in the military and the vast majority of my soldiers have either a ps4 or an XB1 and aside from GTA 5 they Only own/play Sports Games and First Person Shooters... I'm well aware that those consoles offer a variety of genres But I'm also confident that a massive portion of XB1 and PS4 owners belong that group than only plays or owns one or two games... I hardly think it's fair to consider them Hardcore and Wii/Wii U gamers Casuals when I think you're more likely to find a Wii/Wii U owner playing games that would be much more niche in today's gaming invironment... And The Wii had it's fair share of casuals but it was revolutionary because it was able to attract people who didn't play games at all Not becasue it was able to attract Casual Gamers... It was so simple and easy to use even elderly people in assisted living facilities were able to play... And that IS an audience that I agree isn't likely to return for whatever Nintendo's next console and/or gimmick has to offer.
@brooks83
I've been gaming since the NES.
And the commercials between SNES and Genesis would debate it. Other than that, when we talked games with other people, it was never about what was more powerful or what the hardware and technical specs were. It was about which game was the most awesome game. Because that's what matters. GAMES.
Even the EGMs and the Gamepros of the day didn't talk at length about technical specs and hardware. I know, because I still have a stack of them. They talked about the fun factor of games and what the new features were and what to expect. No mention of "slight frame rate drops" or "resolution of the graphics" or anything.
Sure, there will always be people who care more about those things and I'm sure there were people somewhere out there talking about it back then, but it was mostly focused on which one would provide you with the most fun.
@King_Johobo Ratchet and Clank is one of the best games I've played in the last couple of years and it's probably the best looking game on PS4. I've just started my second playthrough and it still brings a smile to my face every time I play it and who doesn't like turning enemies into dancing sheep? I highly recommend it
@Vandy thats an unfair comparison! When the WiiU launched it retailed at 350$ while the PS3 and XBox360 was at around 250 to 200$! Fast forward today, the PS4 and XBoxOne now retail at 350$ while the WiiU still retails officially at 300$
The big problem for me is that Nintendo's own output isn't that reliable any more, there are some success stories with the likes of Splatoon, Mario Kart. Mario 3d World was decent at best with multiplayer and the god awful wiimote shoehorned in, meaning the level design and the controls especially, were nowhere near the standard of the Galaxy games. Zelda has been MIA on Wii U save for 2 gamecube remakes, the Metroid Prime series has been dead for nearly 10 years yet they stick the name on a terrible looking shooter on 3ds. Star Fox hasn't had a true home console game for nearly 20 years, so they bring it back by remaking that one and putting a peculiar control scheme into it.
Also this myth of innovation, changing controllers for the sake of it isn't innovation. Nintendo by and large still make the same games they have been for many years, whether I have to wave my arms instead of pressing a button or looking at a permanent map/inventory screen between my hands.
Does anyone on here believe the Wii UK would have had less had it released with a traditional control pad and thus probably been £100 cheaper? We may have even got more games as they didn't have to waste time working out what to do with it
@kingc8
As a casual, how did they abandon you?
@kingc8
Ok, so no valid input. Typical.
I fall within the category of dedicated/hardcore gamer. Whatever. I enjoyed a good selection of games on the Wii just like all the other Nintendo consoles before it. Muramasa the demon blade, tatsunoku vs capcom, red steel 2, the last story, pandora's tower among others.
Nintendo never take away from their core fan base, they simply extend their products to a broader audience. There's still plenty of good quality titles on offer for gamers like myself. I think this will be continued as Nintendo try to recapture more mainstream audience.
@Barbiegurl777 ...you sorta wrote that as if Nintendo reads this site. They likely don't. There was the disney art academy game. That might float your boat. Also, people play games because they are fun, while you are correct that certain games are marked (much to my eternal dismay) to certain sexes there is a great deal of overlap. I wouldn't count a game out just because its not something you normally play...causes you to sometimes over look some gems.
@kingc8 What games are you looking for exactly? Because the wiiu library while it doesn't have the sheer amount of mass produced titles there are a number of games that fit many skill levels.
@hoshinosammy I don't agree with @Barbiegurl777 descriptors either, but she is just as much a gamer as the rest of us. This isn't an exclusive club. Its a hobby. I know plenty of people that don't like pokemon, I know plenty of people that love pokemon. Doesn't mean that one is more valid than the other.
Ok, you didn't quite answer my question but lets see what I can work with in your comment. They didn't abandon motion controls. The gamepad featured gyroscopic controls and the wiimotes are still in use. Not sure what improvements you are looking for....you aren't giving me enough to work with in your response. They remade two gamecube games. Both to tide over the Zelda population which makes them a great deal of money and they happened to make the games more accessible (even when the originals were pretty solid to start with) to boot. ...games with too much story? Which ones? Yoshi's Wooly world? The story panel is like 5 min. tops, Pikmin 3 also short story, surely you can't mean a mario game...even the rpg games aren't that heavy on story. I agree with the arcade games. If it weren't for pokken and Tekken and injustice my poor Fighting game heart would likely give out. I do miss the other types of franchises like 1080 and wave race but neither of those showed last gen and mario kart 8 is the best in the franchise. Also arcade games as a whole are dying. Although it would help to know which types you are referring to. I never used the TiiVii feature so I can't speak to it but wara wara plaza and miiverse were Nintendo's take on social gaming at an organic level. Considering the always on twitter/tumblr generation it gives you a quick snapshot of what is popular, what people are thinking and where your friends are...just like those services half the world is addicted to. No new experiences? That's vague...Splatoon remade shooters, w101 is its own genre the gamepad was made for art academy what exactly are you looking for? Honest question.
@kingc8
This is the kind of person Nintendo has to try to please and you wonder why they're having trouble doing so.
@Ryu_Niiyama
@Vandy And then there were magazines like Next Generation, which were aimed at industry insiders/adults, and constantly talked technical specs, hardware capabilities, price points, frame rates, fancy technical terms, etc. GamePro, EGM, and the like weren't bad, but they were aimed more towards a younger audience and families. The magazines squarely aimed at adults did indeed talk about the same things that have become common to discuss on the internet today. And yes, they debated what the best paths to take forward were, too.
@kingc8 Did you just complain about new experiences, calling them "irrelevant crap" and then literally in your very next statement complain about there being "no new experiences"?
@Vandy LOL! Its likely a hold over from my gamestop days, but these are my favorite people to talk to! Once you draw them out of their shell and get them to think about what they want from gaming many people realize that the game or system they might be turning their nose up at may have what they are looking for. As @gb_nes_gamer mentioned people loved to cry casuals and shovelware and yet there were some really, really awesome games on the wii. Plus its fun to see how others view gaming as honestly, if you think about the number of games and genres made no two gamers are alike.
@PlywoodStick
Which magazines were those?
@Ryu_Niiyama
Same. I also worked at a game store so I can relate.
I´ve had fun time with Wii U but now I just want to have:
@Vandy This includes a few various publications under what used to be Imagine Media and Future Network USA, now Future US, which the final incarnation of Nintendo Power operated under as well. Next Generation, Edge, PC Gamer, and CD-ROM Today (which branched off to become MacLife and MaximumPC) for that umbrella, dating back to the early-mid '90s. Others outside of that umbrella included Computer Gaming World, dating back to the '80s, and Game Developer magazine, dating back to the mid '90s.
And of course, let us not forget Play Meter magazine, a premier gaming trade magazine which began in the 1970s and still exists today. It was once considered "the Siskel and Ebert of the arcade industry", and began/popularized the 10 point grading scale and individual game review system still used today.
There's probably more out there that I've missed.
@kingc8 No problem. Just making conversation. But I'll leave you alone. Also Platinum games tend to suffer the same no matter what. They have a huge following (I am a card carrying member at the church of Clover and Platnium, Reverend Kamiya presiding) but they don't break sales records...doesn't mean their games are bad. Well have a good morning (its 4:30 in the morning for me)!
@PlywoodStick
Most gaming magazines (outside of the PC gaming ones) would only ever touch briefly upon graphical details, mostly being about whether they look nice or not.
The magazines read by and large by the biggest audience barely ever touched anything like frame-rate and processing power.
@Vandy
I think that's nostalgia playing tricks on you. "Ah the good old days".
I've got a big stash of old games mags downloaded including EGM and UK magazines of the era as well as further back into the 8-bit computer generation. Theres always been arguments over tech specs it was just different things. Instead of resolution and framerate it was colours, number of sprites, slowdown, cartridge sizes (EGM used to love SF II being a 16 megabit cart), Mode 7, CD Drives etc. It maybe seemed less because there was no internet but it's always been there
@electrolite77
I'm not saying it was never there, but it was certainly never the primary focus among gamers. It was more about which game was the best. No one really thought twice about how powerful the system was or the technical specs of the game itself. If you did, that's kind of losing sight of what the point of playing video games is in the first place.
@Vandy The point is that those things were indeed discussed, it's just easier to access that data now that the internet allows quick access to such information, so the rate of discussion has also greatly expanded. Remember that gaming at the time was still a boutique sort of industry which relied on print media to spread information, so technical knowledge was harder to discuss, find, and share.
Of course, kids didn't care about that technical stuff too much, but that's obvious for any time period. As for the adult gaming audience, debating over tech specs really came to a head in the mid 90's with the Saturn, PS1, and N64. They were much more commonly discussed by that time than (if any) predecessors among adult gaming audiences. (Other than, of course, the more niche markets like the Commodore 64 and PC-88, which debated with each other over specs as is common today)
@PlywoodStick
And if technical specs were so rare in the past, therefore irrelevant to what should be the main focus of gaming (is it fun or not), then why are we so reliant upon them now? I can't speak for anyone else, only myself. And I don't personally care about ANY of the technical specs of a game I'm playing. All I'm concerned with is whether or not I am enjoying myself.
@electrolite77 Ah yes, I remember that... Even Nintendo Power made a point to include the amount of megabits on each review of SNES and Game Boy titles! Remember how Super Metroid was such a big deal because it used 24 megabits instead of 16? And how Game Boy titles started out at 1, 2, or 4, and eventually went up to 8? And of course, the 32 megabit titles were touted as keeping the SNES in the game, even after the Saturn was released much too early!
@Vandy Well, again, the Information Age changes things. It was more difficult to propagate that information back then, and the overall market age was younger. Today, the overall market age has matured, and it's far easier to find and discuss such information. The adult audience was interested in the art, business, and technical underpinnings of the industry and it's products, even back then, but it was more difficult to connect to others on the subject.
Even nontechnical magazines like Nintendo Power published tech specs for new consoles, though. For example, they made a point to explore and discuss all the ways that the Game Boy Color was in every way superior to the Game Boy, from the number of colors available, to the pixel density of the screen, to the faster loading times.
@PlywoodStick
Sure, but you still haven't addressed what I'm asking.
Why would the technical specs have any relevance whatsoever on your enjoyment of the game. If the game runs smoothly and it's a blast to play, then who cares if it's 60fps or 50fps?
If a game like Mario Galaxy runs on a much weaker console but is still a much better game than a terrible one that runs on the PS4, why should the hardware even matter at all?
@Vandy
What I'm getting at is there was no halcyon age where tech specs weren't a discussion point. It will always be the case because of the number of times over the years where improvements in technology have facilitated better and more fun games. The two go hand-in-hand.
@PlywoodStick
And then the Neo Geo came along with its 200+MBit cartridges that only kings and pharoahs could afford. Then when CDs appeared with their 650 Megabytes (the carts had always been measured in Megabits) it seemed the sky was the limit....
@Vandy That depends on the individual, and it's much more common to see people who find enjoyment in tech specs in the PC gaming spectrum. Still, there are those who enjoy optimizing their experiences for each technical era. Most arcade gamers dating back to the '80s would scoff at any hardware too weak to provide less than 60 FPS for their titles of choice, for instance.
Mario Galaxy in particular was well optimized for the Wii, so it made the best use of the technical capabilities of the system. So it wasn't just an achievement in craftsmanship, but it was also a technical achievement to accomplish a lot with relatively few resources. There are examples of that in every generation.
That being said, there has to be significant technical achievements and upgrades at some point. Otherwise, we would still be playing NES games, and never would have gotten to the point where Super Mario Galaxy could be rendered. So it is important to have continuing examples of hardware being improved and put to good use, which involves discussion, and yes, debate on future direction.
You (anyone..) want(s) mainstream? Then I say it again:
Nintendo should buy EA (and NO not because it is a great company).
" Nintendo Needs to Excite A Mainstream Audience in 2016"
this true , clear and simple, mainstream is sport-related, movie-related, music-related so Nintendo needs EA, 2K, Activision, Nintendo needs FiFA, PES, Destiny, TheDivision, ResidentEvil.
And first of all Nintendo needs a mainstream name for its new platform. Why not keeping NX as the final name? Nintendo NX, people are all ready used to it. NX for Next/New Xperience. Because screwing up the name it's the begining of screwing up everything.
we should launch a hashtag to ask Nintendo that they keep NX
So the bottom line is that there really is no good reason to judge a game by its technical specs, which is what I have been saying all along. Sure, it's important to advance and ensure you are at least somewhat keeping up with the times, but it's absurd to write off a fun game just because it doesn't run on the most powerful hardware on the market, or just happens to drop 5-10 frame-rates here and there, despite there being no noticeable difference in the gameplay.
And yet, that's the situation we find ourselves in nowadays. And the situation we're perpetuating by talking ad nauseam about the technical specs of the Wii U and its library.
Mobile gaming will be the last nail in Nintendo's coffin. Watch and see
I look at the Star Fox Guard guide article below this one- just 7 comments. Yet the speculative "Nintendo Needs" article is has nearly topped 300.
Good luck with that.
Even if Nintendo nail the hardware will Zelda NX etc be enough?
I'll be ready to replace my PS3 by Christmas (I have a Wii U already) but Nintendo would need some hugely tempting software to sway me from the likes of Uncharted 4, Rare Replay, Tomb Raider, Titanfall 2, Helldrivers, Hyper Light Drifter, Ratchet & Clank, Rocket League, Ori & The Blind Forest... not to mention PSVR.
I'm not sure what Nintendo could possibly present during E3 to be my next console choice... and I'm a fanboy.
@Dakt First off, like I said, the WiiU has no future, by now there is no doubt that within 12 months - depending on your region - it will have been replaced by the NX.
4-5 years is not an unusal life-cycle for a Nintendo console to say the least btw ^^ So as far as a "future" goes, at this point in the cycle, this argument seems weird for about any Nintendo console out there.
I don't agree about the high entry price. How is it high? If you keep your eyes open (at least in Europe), you're looking at like 200€. Also, I mean, what does it matter how long the system is out? I mean what counts are the games that DO exist. You can divide them by years-on-the-market, but I don't see any point in that.
I don't play statistics, I play videogames. It's one thing to argue, that one should not buy the NX cause it will take years until Nintendo can build a strong library (which may or may not be true), but arguing towards the past seems really pointless to me. The problem is the waiting and drought, and once that is over, it's just that ... over.
As for Sony, I am not aware of any Sony console that improved core elements of the hardware features, cpu/gpu, as far as performance goes. To my knowledge that is just unprecedented and, at least that is my feeling, undermines the whole idea of a console with a set hardware configuration that is equal for everyone. Meaning all players get the same performance out of the system, no one has any advantage (within a very, very small margin), no one has any disadvantages, and equally important, a developer has to look at one system architecture and one set of performance benchmarks, and can work towards those and just those.
I just think that people would be better off worrying less about sheer numbers (I don't really see how anyone with normal daily routine, could possibly handle the output of the WiiU+ any other major platform Ps4/X1/PC), so to me, that whole line of thinking is just academic.
In fact, most people will probably be happy with just a Ps4/X1/PC - and the sales records reflect that just fine, but for some, Nintendo-developed games are a 'necessity', and those are the ones that will keep buying their systems.
Nintendo has to figure out either a) how to expand that audience, b) making due with what they got or c) finding entirely new revenue streams (e.g. mobile without the entry barrier of a specific hardware).
The answer is incredibly simple: Nintendo needs to get 3rd party companies to make games for their system.
The idea of just playing the N+1 iteration of a 30 year old franchise is going to leave them with a smaller and smaller userbase until they are completely irrelevant/go third party
The hardcore base is pretty bored at the moment too tbh
@kingc8 You trying to draw parallels between those apps and the Wii U's offerings is as bland and meaningless as it would be if you'd have said "I've already experienced video games". Nintendo TVii may have been a bit lackluster but Mii Verse caters specifically to Nintendo Gamers (I can assure this is a concept that will be stolen and perhaps expanded upon by MS/Sony in the future) and the Wara Wara Plaza is a key feature of the Wii U OS with the ability to share opinions, ratings, art, make purchases and quick select apps right after you start up your console, another Nintendo concept likely to be stolen.
I am really interested to see what NX is. It has almost got mythical status now. When it is finally revealed it will be odd living in a world that doesn't have NX rumors.
Nintendo's problem is going to be getting lapsed players back on board. People are not suddenly going to start playing fifa and call of duty on Nintendo just because they can. They need to find a market they can get involved in. It seems they still have a big pull with the Japanese developers like Capcom and Namco Bandi. Making the console home to RPGS and some fighters would be a forsesable step. Final Fantasy coming to the console along with Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter. Xenoblade Chronicles HD version. Soul Caliber, Tekken. Although I doubt those genres will do much for sales outside of Japan.
The Wii U seemed to prove that Mario games alone cannot shift consoles, there needs to be more to get the main-stream on board. That to me is going to be Nintendo's hardest job.
@Mario-Man-Child I agree with you.
And also add -
" Of course, for most fans the over-riding priority is for Nintendo to be successful and keep making games." No your website and the shareholders want Nintendo to be successful. Just so you can succeed riding on their back. Nintendo's real fans, the gamers, want good systems and games to enjoy.
I have heard it said that the Wii was a great success for Nintendo. Well for me it was the worst game system they have produced so far, yeah it sold really well. But the control was pathetic and we talk of games from other system with far more respect. (please don't give me a list of good wii games, please). Here we are today with backlash of the Wii's success.
"The hardcore fanbase isn't enough on its own" - Why not, for who? Who was this article for, shareholders?
@kingc8 Yes but I was more referring to the social aspect of Miiverse that lets people discus games and get hints and help on specific titles... In that regard both MS and Sony have already stolen the idea since both companies have since added individual game forums to their respective online community sites... What surprises me though is that neither have implemented options within the consoles themselves to easily access those communities... And That I believe is just a matter of time.
@kingc8 lmao
@carlos82 You'd be happy to know I ended up buying it today and it was so cheap particularly for a new game. It's so good and I can't believe how much fun I'm having playing it! Some of the dialogue is actually hilarious. Well worth it! Also Mr. Zurkon is the greatest!
Even if Nintendo's next console is as powerful as the others, they still have to buy 3rd partys for billions of dollars each year just like MicroSony.
Nintendo doesn't buy and claim things though. They only support, collaborate, and let everyone be free and independent. And that's a good natural thing in my eyes. The other companies are only corrupting the natural flow of things with their dollars.
@JBDD I don't mean to say price doesn't matter at all to those more invested in gaming as a hobby. I just mean that it tends to be a smaller factor compared to the broader mainstream. Price is a factor for me too. I wouldn't buy a Wii U for $600. But because I really enjoy video games a lot, I would probably be willing to pay more for a Wii U than someone who just kind of thought Nintendo Land looked neat.
I think that's where the Wii nailed it. It was a pretty looking piece of relatively simple tech with a great pack in demo that looked like fun. It was a lot easier for people to say "what the heck!" and buy one for the house. I think the reason for its relatively short shelf-life was the take off of HD televisions within a few years of its release, along with the smartphone craze that put an accelerometer in everyone's hand and sold half-baked games for $0.99 that used the tech in amusing ways. In many ways I think the smartphone craze has hit Nintendo's home console market harder than it hit the handheld market, since Nintendo still holds the mantle of the handheld device for "core gamers," and those are devices that parents are more comfortable buying for their children than a smartphone. But even that is changing.
I have no doubt that Nintendo has some neat ideas up its sleeve, but as I mentioned upthread, it is going to be really hard to compete in terms of hardware/software price and tech with smart devices. Miitomo and mobile is probably the right business move to keep a toe in those waters.
@Xenocity True, but you can still buy a phone in installments, which you can't really do for a video game system.
Also, I think the smartphone decline is not because of lack of interest in smartphones. It's because we've hit a saturation point where there are not really very many new customers in developed countries to sell to. They're not selling as many to repeat customers because the new features in new phone models have less marginal value to most consumers than they used to, so it's harder to justify the purchase.
I don't know how all that impacts Nintendo, but we still haven't reached the point where mobile games are as good as games on dedicated game consoles. A few are getting there, but they are few and far between. That means that a dedicated gaming console maker still has an audience, but it's going to be really hard to compete for the mainstream, because the blue ocean isn't blue anymore, it's red from the battle between Apple, Google, Samsung, LG, etc.
Nintendo's laser beam focus on gaming I think gives them a competitive edge over more diversified companies like Microsoft or Sony (both of whom struggle mightily in the smartphone market), but it's still going to take some super creative thinking from Kyoto to adapt to the new technology landscape.
Nintendo fans can hate it all they want, they can p*ss, moan and cry about it all they want, but Nintendo needs to do whatever possible to win third parties back and one of the franchises it needs to get is Grand Theft Auto. You can be disgusted by it, you can absolutely despise the fact that franchise has to be released on Nintendo consoles but aside from Call of Duty it may be the single biggest IP in the industry. GTA, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, Madden, Fifa, NBA 2K, NHL, whatever From Software makes after Dark Souls 3, Battlefield, Tekken, Doom, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, etc. Nintendo needs to find a way to make all of these join the likes of Super Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart.
I'll just respond directly to the title of the article. I've said since the N64, that Nintendo can't win the race without the help of 3rd parties, and the support of the mainstream. It is what it is and has nothing to do with the great 1st/2nd party games you can find on their systems. All Nintendo has to do is find the middle ground between their own best, and finding a way to give 3rd parties and mainstream what they want. It's... not actually that hard. It allows them to not saturate their system with a frenzy of 1st/2nd party games, and let's them focus on rarer, higher quality 1st/2nd party releases so the 3rd parties can develop and release more often in the meantime.
The problem is Nintendo doesn't want to take a step back from itself, but after having to work so hard to churn out 1st/2nd party games this generation (and generations in the past), you'd figure Nintendo would learn their lesson, make it easier on themselves, and let the 3rd parties have more fun... but I'm not Tatsumi Kimishima, so I don't have to make that decision
@earthboundlink Thing is, I have no problem with what some may call "gimmicks" introduced by Nintendo. I just don't always like how those are implemented, e.g. having to replace the batteries in the Wii Remote or purchase rechargeable ones. Still, I'd like to see Nintendo improve and better implement the accessories and technologies they introduce. What they often seem to do is introduce a new control method/technology, and then leave it to stagnate in their future consoles, in favour of introducing another new control method/technology. Maybe I'm asking for too much, but I quite liked motion controls and gyroscopic controls - they just need better implementation.
I don't mind Miitomo and similar apps. I won't be happy if Nintendo neglects more "traditional" games in favour of pursuing the mobile market, though.
@JBDD I think you and I are on the same page. I think Wii U was a great opportunity to make "Wii HD," and sell an HD Wii with Motion+ packed in, built in rechargeable batteries for Wii remotes, etc. It feels like developers, Nintendo included, were just getting the hang of high quality motion controls when they introduced Wii U. They kept the Wii remote as an input method, but then never really developed much that used it, so the concept was never focused enough.
@Yorumi I totally agree. The idea that simply striking gold (or riding lightning) again is all that Nintendo needs to do to stay relevant is ridiculous. That's equivalent to telling a gambler just to keep rolling the dice.
Lightning can't be bottled: trends are too unpredictable to rely on as a livelihood. Nintendo's best assets are their talented staff and IPs. That's where a smart investor puts their money if they're building Nintendo. If the new NX platform is a means to increasing productivity across platforms, then Nintendo will see incremental success over the current generation by output alone.
The quality of Nintendo's product has always been a major player in their success as well. If they are able to more efficiently deliver software across all of their devices, they can afford to take delays when necessary to ensure that they can rebuild the - now figurative - "seal of quality" that has taken a hit in the past year, as they try to support Wii U and 3DS while building a library for a new console.
This is where third-parties come in as well. In addition to rounding out the library of the console with a better mix of games (that compliment and contrast with Nintendo's own offerings), and creating additional software revenue for Nintendo, their games fill in the software gaps between Nintendo's releases.
Additionally, third-party releases create an ecosystem in which gamers don't feel like they HAVE to buy a second console with a Nintendo device, even if they inevitably do. The realities of a system are less important than the idea of a system at the point of sale ; if one can conceive of needing to buy additional hardware on top of the Nintendo console (which isn't a stretch at this point) at the point of sale, the Nintendo console will only ever be a second pickup for all but the core Nintendo fanbase.
A movie theater that doesn't show Disney (Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars) films is only ever going to be a niche, quirky alternative theater. With the exception of a market phenomenon - like the Wii - a venue/console needs to have mainstream AAA content to lead the market.
... and now to bring this long rant home.
No one single element - not a unique control scheme, not excellent 1st party titles, not a steady stream of new content, not third party support, and not powerful hardware - is going to move massive amounts of consoles on its own. Success for Nintendo is going to be a balancing act of up-to-date hardware, a concerted effort to fill a proper release schedule (a first-party game most every month), an affordable price tag, and enough incentive for third-parties to bring at least their most popular titles to the console for the life of the system.
Here's the harsh truth: the Wii struck a wild chord with the mainstream, but it wasn't mainstream itself, and it didn't put Nintendo into the gaming mainstream. It caught on like wildfire, but ultimately put distance between Nintendo and the everyday gaming market.
There's no arguing that it wasn't a successful system, but the kind of success that Nintendo needs is steady growth in the communities that turn out to buy game consoles generation after generation. Another flash in the pan like the Wii would be a short-term solution that would inevitably lead Nintendo back to the trend of decline it's experienced since the NES (which would mean even lower sales than the Wii U).
Much of what Kimishima has said been saying lately seems to indicate that he understands this reality, and even that he foresaw the larger effects of the Wii when most of Nintendo was just grinning and tossing money in the air. I am cautious, but have great optimism that, under his leadership, Nintendo will begin building a steady foundation for a future of success.
*One a side note: mobile, movies, and merchandise are coming in a big way. We might fret over this possibility, but this kind of exposure is going to be huge in turning heads back to what Nintendo is doing with their current games. If their new platform is capable (doesn't have to be cutting-edge, just current), affordable, and they hire enough hands to blitz us with high-quality software, Nintendo will be on it's way back to big, steady profits.
It's going to be a big year!
IMO, the top three things Nintendo needs to get right with the NX, in order, are:
#1 Advertisement.
They need to bring out a powerful system with as many good features as possible, then pick up, and keep up, a hype wave of advertisement.
PS4 proved that a system can sell off of hype through clever advertisements and pot-shots at rivals alone; Nintendo could do the same, then follow it up with point #2.
#2: Lots, and LOTS, of first party support.
I'm talking, bare minimum, at least one new AAA first party game every three or so months, if not more.
The Wii U, for all of its great software later on, was really lacking in compelling first-party software during its first year.
And while we're on the topic of software, let's use that as a bridge to cross into the final point:
#3 Third party EXCLUSIVES.
Now, I know what some of you might be thinking: "But smash, what about the multiplats?!"
To that, I ask you this question: "Would you give up getting those multiplats on your PS4, XBone, or PC to get them on NX?"
As long as the answer to that is "no" for the majority of non-Nintendo gamers, multiplats cannot, and will not, be able to convince non-Nintendo gamers to go over to NX.
EXCLUSIVES from third parties, however, hold that power to sway their interest.
All that's left after that is to introduce some decent multiplats alongside them, and Nintendo will be golden.
Exclusives first, multiplats second.
And they MUST be given firm and lasting advertisement.
@smashbrolink You're 100% right. With all 3 of those things Nintendo could take the gaming market by storm once again. Especially if they market it right and have all of that 3rd part exclusivity. I think something that would really bring the people in would be that since Kingdom Hearts 3 is coming to both PS4 and XBone, that maybe the NX could get an exclusive "Final Mix" edition of the game. For those who don't know, the final mix versions of Kongdom Hearts games have updated graphics and have added bosses, bits of story, and new enemies and cutscenes. That would really bring in TONS of people to the NX. Especially since Kingdom Hearts has appeared on Nintendo consoles before so it's fan base would be more comfortable getting a Nintendo console I'd think.
They need to get new gamers to come back, and the best way to do that is to hook people with their franchises outside of the games. That Star Fox anime short for example. Imagine a full anime, then when people are hooked Nintendo announces a new game, exclusive to NX, that advertisement does it's own job. Would be seriously be heading into the new generation of Pokemon if it wasn't for the anime keeping the franchise alive? Probably not. Nintendo franchised during the NES and SNES days and they were on top of their game, ever since then, they have only really appealed to the Nintendo gamers, like myself. Wii was a fluke. They need to get people back and enjoying their franchises. Anime, movies, books, are the ways to reach wider audiences again.
@StuOhQ I with you for most of your comment, but you lost me at "back to the trend of decline it's experienced since the NES." That seems like some revisionist history. I don't think that's a very accurate characterization of the history of Nintendo. They basically made home video games mainstream with NES, and this invited competition. The rest of the story is not decline, it's just them trying to work with more effective competition than they had in the NES days.
I also don't agree with the sentiment commonly expressed in NintendoLife comment sections that the massive success of the Wii doesn't count or was somehow bad for the company. They clearly made some missteps in pushing forward after the Wii became such a huge success, but I don't think it makes sense to say "this massively successful product was a bad thing for this company." A better way to put it is that Nintendo learned the wrong lessons from the success of the Wii.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Agreed. I remember hearing one rumour about the NX being that it features a sort of "universal compiler", that essentially would mean porting any game to the NX would require next to no work at all.
I don't know how realistic this is, but out of all the rumored features of the NX, this is the one I most wish would be real, for Nintendo's sake. It' be the best thing for them. Make it damn near pointless for any 3rd party company to NOT release their game for the NX. And Nintendo'd get all non-Sony or Microsoft exclusive games + their 1st party titles = gold.
@3MonthBeef i like your descriptions of hardcore/casual. Reading comments on various sites, it seems there's difference of opinion of what each can mean.
It all comes down to power though. The Wii/Wii U simply couldn't handle the more popular AAA games... The only difference is motion control was enough to entice millions of people to buy the Wii early on which put developers in a position where releasing mangled and seriously down graded versions of their software could still be profitable... But the fact of the matter is... They shouldn't have too... And that was the greatest fault of the Wii U... Not faulty advertising, not the lack of first party games, but lack of 3rd party support which was only a residual effect caused by the substantial lack of power.
So, for what it's worth, my two cents on what Nintendo needs to do to be more successful:
1. Hype the heck out of the NX at some point this year
2. Pump out a few more Wii U titles (even if they're HD ports!)
3. Continue giving the 3DS more support into 2017 and maybe beyond
4. Launch NX right out of the gate with franchise entries that people want (new Metroid maybe)
5. Lower the Wii U and 3DS's prices slightly this year
@-DEMISE- Not more i have a 3ds for that..Screw phone gaming
Good God this is a horrible, horrible writeup. Just awful, built on an erroneous foundation, backed by logical fallacies, and riddled with the cancer destroying my hobby.
1. In what way shape or form was the Wii u targeting the 'hardcore' market? Was it with all those franchises I bought the system for that NEVER APPEARED? Was it for all those in depth immersive adventures I can always count on a Nintendo stems to have? Nope. No metroid, still no Zelda yet, the only game of its kind on the entire system for the entire generation is freaking xenoblade. That's it. I have a shelf full of similar engrossing experiences for my Wii. One game for my Wii u. That I waited 3/4ths of a generation for. How the hell was the Wii u 'Targeting the hardcore gamer'?
2. 'Return to Nintendo like profits.' You are pure cancer. This garbage rhetoric surfaced after the investor flood that followed the Wii and Ds. This NEVER EXISTED BEFORE THAT. Nintendo has never had profits like the Wii and Ds before. The concept that that is some standard that Nintendo has always had is completely false. And that false narrative being swallowed hook line and sinker by morons whos sole interest is flipping their stock shares is tearing Nintendo ragged.
A return to Nintendo like profits would be a return to a sensible conservative business model that is self sustainable.creating their own experience, filling it with a large library of quality content. That's how Wii and Ds were created in the first place. Thats how splatoon was created. Not chasing the golden 'casual' egg trying to flip a quick buck. That's how federation forces was created.
There is no quick fix for Nintendo's situation, no golden ticket, and no magical 'casual' audience the only thing that can fix the damage Nintendo has done with the Wii u, is by slowly earning back the trust of everyone they burned, and the people who watched them get burned by having a platform with a full diverse library of quality titles, so that people know its safe to get a Nintendo systems and have a satisfying amount of titles they enjoy to play.
We don't need expensive machines to innovate, even the Wii u right now has the hardware power to do things NEVER done before design wise. Its not system power holding design back, and its not a controller gimmick either. Nintendo needs to focus on actual good engaging game design, and satisfying the people who still want it. There is way, WAY more than enough people who are dissatisfied with the AAAAAAAA garbage treadmill, and would rather slam their head repeatedly in a door than suffer 'casual' mind numbing happeess models, the kind of people who just want to have the kind of engaging adventure Nintendo once wrote the book on, more tham enough of these, to make a sustainable profit on. And then this amazing thing happens Nintendo. When you have this audience of happy satisfied people around you, other people start joining them.
All this machinery making modern gaming can still be open-hearted,
Not so coldly charted it's really just A question of your honesty, yeah, your honesty.
One likes to believe in the freedom of design. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.
And here we have someone screaming to carve the words of the profits on the studio walls...
@earthboundlink I agree. The Wii was obviously an outstanding success, but Nintendo didn't fully grasp the reason why and was confused about where to go from there.
There's no denying that the sales figures have been a downward trend, though, whatever you believe to be the cause.
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