It's hard to know what Nintendo makes of Cemu, a Wii U emulator that's been making rapid progress. Often these fan-based projects take years to come together, but in this case there have been frequent updates, perhaps helped by the similarity - in some respects - of the current-gen system to the Wii.
In any case, progress has been startlingly quick from a technological perspective. Though the emulator is still a long way from being a legitimate threat to Nintendo's system, it's still surprising how a matter of months have seen builds move from returning frozen screens to functional gameplay.
Version 1.4.0, released this week, perhaps claims Super Mario 3D World as its biggest landmark improvement. As you can see in the video below it's running surprisingly smoothly - some are claiming to be averaging around 50fps on their PCs - albeit with faulty lighting and a likelihood to crash.
Below is Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.
Progress with Xenoblade Chronicles X is slower, no doubt due to Monolith Soft's huge RPG being a particularly demanding game.
Chatter around the recent build points to Super Mario Maker (offline-only) running very well, though titles like Pikmin 3 are still rather slow. Naturally there are also issues, in general terms, with crashing, poor lighting and other quirks.
For the emulation community there's certainly interest in how quickly the project is progressing - it's a closed development group, and in the past it's been made clear that it's staying that way to retain focus and to resist the emulator being used for outright piracy and cheating. Of course, when you attempt to emulate current-generation hardware, the debate is a minefield.
We imagine that Nintendo is watching the progress of Cemu closely, but at present it's still a long way from being a valid threat. Not only do users need powerful PC rigs, they also have to put up with severe limitations in playability. The progress it's shown, however, has certainly been eye-catching.
[source neogaf.com]
Comments 67
If they don't plan to ever release this to the public and they have no plans to pirate the games, why are they doing this?
Dang, this is some cool stuff. Inevitably, some people are going to come in here and whine about this, though. Happens with every post about CEMU.
@Kalmaro Emulation has a legitimate purpose in preserving a console's library. Even outside of that, some people are completely content with just buying the Wii U games in physical form and then playing them with this emulator, eliminating the need for a Wii U. Funny enough, that's not even illegal.
@Kalmaro
It's better to say they won't pirate it nor share it than say they will, avoiding further questions and annoyances.
By the time this emulator is in a good playable state we will all be playing on our NX's.
@Splatburst yeah that sounds like the real issue.
@Toleboy last I checked, you can not own a digital copy of a nintendo game or play it in a system not made by nintendo. They have that in pretty much all the game instruction manuals I think.
This is fantastic! Great progress made here.
I love the fact that the Wii U could eventually join the ranks of the SNES, MegaDrive, and many other great systems that have been preserved online through emulation.
You appear to be breaking your own rules Tom. No talk of emulation for current gen consoles, no?
@Kalmaro Nintendo saying something hardly makes it illegal, you know.
@Kalmaro That emulator is released, it's the source code that is not.
If only a team with such passion and proficiency could get working on an original Xbox emulator. Emulation can be such a great blessing, I started playing Xenosaga Episode 1 at the weekend without having to mod my PS2 to run US games simply by ripping an iso from the disc and playing it on my PC.
It'd be nice to be able to do that with Phantom Dust or Metal Wolf Chaos without having to mod my Xbox.
Impressive stuff, Cemu team.
@Toleboy true but when you play the game it is considered as accepting a contract, last I heard.
Just reread EULA
Basically, you don't own the game, just a license to play it and you can not own a copy of the game. The games are also copywritten.
That said, I like the idea of emulation, used to play gameboy advance games on my laptop years ago
But I don't think it's legal.
@AlternateButtons See? I called that! I I knew it would happen, and I called it.
Hey, as long as you're using your own discs, emulation is legal and awesome. It's pretty cool to be able to play Wii games in HD with custom textures and lighting on my PC.
Interesting that progress is being made so quickly. I wonder how they're handling the Gamepad functionality emulation.
@AlternateButtons Common misconception. It's only theft if you don't buy the game, but seeing as how these guys are creating the emulator in the first place they're probably just running the game they bought in their PC's blu-ray drive.
(And Nintendo doesn't own the copyright for the processing architecture inside the Wii U, which is what they're reproducing.)
The Wii U is so weak it can be emulated lol
Come on Nintendo more stability required!
Emulation just isn't practical in a lot of situations. Even NES, SNES, and N64 emulation is buggy. Sure I have tried Project64 and don't mind playing games like Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64 from time to time. The only reason I do is to see what these games would look like in an HD resolution. But they are buggy, crash, have random pop in, layers that aren't visible without some extensive debugging. That said I own each of these games on console and still play them as well from time to time, and they work, pretty flawlessly to this day in fact.
Emulation has it's place, but it's far from a perfect substitute for the real thing. If anyone wants to read Nintendo's stance on emulation, here you go!
https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator
Emulation is for children.
The colors are extremely off.
It's not just Cemu that's taken large strides recently.
From what I've seen there's a Playstation 3 emulator which has also achieved very playable speeds as well, and this all seems to be thanks to DirectX 12.
My understanding is that Dolphin Emulator is looking into DirectX 12 as well.
Because of Digimon World Re;Digitize Decode on 3DS the Citra Emulator got an update to make most game playable, it was mostly for the crew to be able to translate it.
So both Citra and CEMU are showing progress.
@TeslaChippie Nintendo does, however, own the rights to the games people may try to emulate. The EULAs are bonding in court and the EULA agreement with each game States that you do not own the game but a licence and it can only be played in a Nintendo system.
@ThomasBW84 I've asked this before, but never gotten a reply. Why post an article about emulation when we're not allowed to discuss topics like this in the forums? Either change the rules or don't report on current gen emulation.
Would've been cool if all this work could get integrated into Dolphin, so that it could be one emulator for all 3 of Nintendo's PowerPC architecture similarly to how a Wii U with a hacked Wii mode gives you access to all 3 of those same consoles.
That said, I don't pirate current gen games. I just don't, not even to try a game before I buy. For the most part the same applies to the current previous gen as some devs can still be making games and money off of the previous gen consoles, but I make exceptions for Japanese games that will never come out in the west in their original form or at all. I also subscribe to the "pirate-to-try" mode of thinking for the previous gen.
As for two gens and more, it becomes retro to me and all sense of morality and reasoning goes out the windows. Whether I pirate or buy a copy of such old games is up to my discretion and even buying these old games can raise questions for me. If I buy physical it'll most likely be used so the developer and publisher will never see the money anyway. In a way, it's almost no different from pirating an old game (a similar logic could apply to newer games, but that's way too dangerous for a way to think even for me), but if I buy a physical copy it's mostly to save on computer storage space and to thank the merchant for preserving their games for so long. Also it just feels nice having a physical copy.
If I buy digital, I'll get to support the publishers (only) but I lose out on physical copies and prices tend to rather damn high on consoles and mobile (yes there are retro games being sold on mobile, and yeah they tend to follow similar pricing to Virtual Console and PSN). Neither are an issue on PC though. Sites like GoodOldGames and GamersGate sell DRM-free copies of retro PC games for ludicrously low prices or at least low prices relative to the game in question. And since they're DRM-free I can things like burn them to a disc or stick them on a low capacity flash drive or sd card with some kind of autoboot file. And if I like the game enough, I could even make a full-coloured, stickered CD/DVD label and print out some box art and package everything inside a dvd case.
I also don't pirate new games for old consoles like Pier Solar.
@Octane Not allowed to talk about it at all in the forums? I know we've been assessing our community rules, I'll try and see what's what.
Editorial and the forum community do operate independently - I follow Cemu for the fact it's interesting, and still an enthusiast thing that's not a notable threat to Nintendo. That could evolve of course, as would my approach to it. I don't 'condone' it as such, nor have I used it (and I don't link to where it can be accessed).
@Kalmaro Nintendo's agreements have no stance in the court of law, I don't think even Nintendo understands their own agreements to be honest - Nintendo probably just copy and paste them from another company/Internet site.
Anyone can back up their games for personal use like everything else, of course distribution and download is illegal. Emulators are not illegal. I own £1000s worth of Nintendo games, consoles going back to the NES. All in pristine condition. Super Mario Galaxy I must say is much better in 1080p60 Try not to worry about these guys.
@Kalmaro Nintendo's agreements have no stance in the court of law, I don't think even Nintendo understands their own agreements to be honest - Nintendo probably just copy and paste them from another company/Internet site.
Anyone can back up their games for personal use like everything else, of course distribution and download is illegal. Emulators are not illegal. I own £1000s worth of Nintendo games, consoles going back to the NES. All in pristine condition. Super Mario Galaxy I must say is much better in 1080p60 Try not to worry about these guys.
@Kalmaro Unfortunately, something like that would not hold up in court. The iTunes EULA says you can only play the .m4a files downloaded from iTunes on the iPod and iPhone family of products... but they wouldn't be able to enforce that, because there's no way to track whether digital data is being interpreted by one device or another.
In other words, it might not be legal, but it's also not enforceable because it's traceless and victimless.
@EllenJMiller it's a strange one. The original Xbox should be the easiest of all consoles to emulate, considering it was just s PC in a box.
@liveswired they might hold more than you think. Check this out: http://simpleeulas.weebly.com/know-more.html
I'll argue that they have a snowball's chance of enforcing it but I'm talking just purely about legality.
@TeslaChippie imho I'm not arguing that it is enforceable, just that it is illegal. That's all
@ThomasBW84 yeah the rule needs to be adjusted, otherwise every comment on this page should be deleted as the rule is linked right from the bottom of the reply section.
Maybe allow discussion so long as linking to said sites is banned?
Hmmm, interesting.
I wonder the PC specs used.
@Nico07
Even though several supreme court judges deemed emulation in and of itself as being legal.
Sony v. Bleem
Nintendo v. Galoob Toys Inc.
Sony v. Connectix
All cases where judges ruled in favor of emulation being legal under US copyright law. Nintendo is just voicing their stance, nothing more. The games, however, are an entirely different story.
Also, it's hilarious that articles can discuss emulation but users can't discuss it in the forums. Sounds like double standards to me.
@Waluigi "Maybe allow discussion so long as linking to said sites is banned?" - I honestly thought that change had been made, so I'll follow-up with the moderating team and site bosses.
@ThomasBW84 Haha I'm on the moderation team! See my fancy star?
"It is permitted to constructively discuss the use of flash carts, emulators and homebrew software when in the context of previous generation(s) hardware."
I just copy and pasted that from the community rules.
@Waluigi And yet the article is discussing current gen, how does that work? Isn't that against the TOS as well, or are journalists exempt? Will the rule ever be updated? Seems kinda of...funky? I dunno, I mean, I don't see discussing emulation of a console from the fifth gen is any different than speaking of emulation from current gen, emulation's emulation, right?
I still don't give a ship. Prefer to play my games legally, but thanks for advertising the alternatives anyway.
Bowser looks much scarier with that lighting.
@JohnnyC You really think everyone that uses emulators are pirates? Some people actually buy the games they used
And by the time this reach mainstream the WiiU will be long gone, so not a loss for Nintendo either
@Faruko I think that showing people how to steal while a product is still viable is wrong, yes. Regardless of when or how this is intended to be used, the fact is it can and will be used illegally. There are a significant number of people out there who say they'd play Wii U games if the console were cheaper. Just get a couple of clever guys with questionable morals to build on this work and they'd make themselves some money very easily. So yeah, stop advertising it. The last thing Nintendo needs right now is another way of losing revenue, no matter how slight the possibility.
@Faruko just because a system is "gone" does not make it okay to use games for that system outside of the EULA.
Not sure whether Nintendo is not as good as locking down its systems as Sony/Microsoft or whether Nintendo systems are simply targetted more. Hope they find a way to lock down the NX from launch. Some people achieve a great deal within the hacking scene and sometimes it is impressive, even surpassing what Nintendo has itself achieved. It's still largely about getting free games though. And there's still no real defense.
Games should be preserved as close to their original state as can be done and with electronic hardware it's not enough to keep a few pieces running. Because of rapid changes in technology and methods of storage and transfer, emulators are our best bet.
Here's the part that isn't happening but should be:
Nintendo needs to make its own emulators and preserve its own games. Every game company should do this.
And not just for each iteration of its own hardware but on something relatively stable like intel instruction set and the closest to standard graphics technology you can get at the time. Something that is easily moved forward to new technology over time.
Then, Nintendo can sell and resell it, if it so chooses. Presumably, much of it will play best on its own hardware, but it should offer legitimate ways to get the emulator and games on the more ubiquitous PC platform in a controlled means. That way it offers the most convenient ways to play, but also preserve its own history and make a way for software it doesn't have control over to continue to exist on emulated hardware it can no longer support in physical form.
It's a way Nintendo could take control of the situation rather than be reactionary towards it all the time.
The bigger problem is then how to let any of these older games live on due to rights management and defunct companies and all those other legal issues. Maybe with an official emulator scene, more accurate hardware emulation could lead to agnostic areas where a ROM could be dumped in more simple legal agreements.
But then, this pragmatic but wishful thinking has gone a bit too far already!
Although I don't see much reason to emulate Wii U games (unless if you can't afford a Wii U), I am impressed to see that it is possible.
@JohnnyC @Kalmaro Using emulators isnt against the law, in fact, nintendo does it (Virtual Console), if you buy the game you can play it on an emulator too.
Well, I suppose playing Super Mario 3D World in a night time setting and neon lights all over the land could be interesting.
@Sakura Sony is actually pretty on par as far as emulation. The Wii was basically just an updated gamecube which made it rather easy to emulate. In fact the Wii itself can emulate gamecube because it's so similar, a softmodded Wii U can play gamecube games in Wii mode. With Sony everything up to the PS2-PSP has been emulated, and the PS3 i understand has been progressing. So Nintendo is one generation ahead in terms of being emulated, with the Wii being doable but not the PS3, but again that's only because the Wii is so close to the Gamecube.
Cemu is still likely a long ways away from being a legit way to play more than a couple games. And by the time it is the PS3 emulator will probably be a thing as well. Im sure the fact that the Wii U came out earlier than the PS4 and it's weaker, therefore easier to emulate, is also part of the reason it's ahead of the curve. I also do think they get targeted a bit more since they have more software that doesn't also receive a PC release.
XBOX games have traditionally been far more likely to have PC ports, even first party, than the other two consoles making emulation less appealing. Basically you'd need a very strong PC to play 360 games which is basically going to be a worse version than what you can already play on your PC. But i do think Microsoft is a little bit ahead of the game in terms of encryption and what not, hence the original XBOX still hasn't been emulated but again there just isn't the same amount of incentive since barely any games can't be played on either PC natively or via emulation of a PS2 or GC.
@Faruko You're right, the emulator is not the problem. It is the game itself. Nintendo does not sell games, they sell licenses and if you have a copy of their game and you did not purchase it from an approved retailer then you technically are breaking their rules (which is dumb but those are their rules)
Copying the game in any fashion is against their EULA.
Basically, the only way to get a game legally is to purchase it from a retailer.
http://simpleeulas.weebly.com/nintendo-eula.html
That said, they have no way to ever enforce this but if for any reason they just decided they didn't like you and you happened to be running a Mario game on an emulator, they could sue and would win since the game itself is protected.
@Kevlar44 Thanks, that's interesting. I do game on PC too and most of the games are mutliplats that didn't get ported to Wii U. Makes sense. They're nearly all on both PS4 and Xbone. There's no legitimate option for Wii U games except the Wii U.
I think emulation is only the tip of the iceberg though. I often visit an Android site to get some help with coding and on the front page there are always announcements of the latest breakthroughs for running unsigned code on the 3DS. Wii U pops up quite often too. It could just be a bias on that site, but Nintendo seems heavily hacked beyond even emulation. I understand the desire for region-free, but it's mostly about free games. Nintendo doesn't seem to have come up with an answer yet.
@Toleboy
"Dang, this is some cool stuff. Inevitably, some people are going to come in here and whine about this, though. Happens with every post about CEMU.
@Kalmaro Emulation has a legitimate purpose in preserving a console's library. Even outside of that, some people are completely content with just buying the Wii U games in physical form and then playing them with this emulator, eliminating the need for a Wii U. Funny enough, that's not even illegal."
It should be illegal.
The games are made to sell the systems.
And these games are still new.
Anyone wanting to play these games should be buying the system and using that, not DLing them on an emulator.
Which is what will eventually happen; even if these guys don't plan to share their work, the fact that they are making progress will inspire someone with the intent to share such programs to go out and do the same thing, once it's been proven that it can be done.
And that will lead to open emulators with ripped copies of Wii U games free to download before the system's even old enough to be considered a legacy system.
We shouldn't be celebrating this.
@Waluigi Mike is right, Wal.
This article is discussing emulation of a current gen console, therefore, if the mods here are following the rules they signed up to enforce, this article shouldn't be on the website.
So which will it be?
Do the rules matter to a moderator, or is this article going to remain up on a whim?
@smashbrolink Think you got the wrong guy, I was the one saying emulation was illegal in my post.
@smashbrolink
Two things. First thing, the moderation team can't remove articles.
Secondly, we're working to edit the current rules behind the scenes.
Frankly, I don't take kindly to how you think we're keeping this article on a whim, on top of that please don't tell us how to do our jobs.
While the emulator's progress appears to be pretty good, I do suspect it will quite quickly hit a wall and never really improve from there.
You only need to look at the current state of emulation for the N64, PlayStation, Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube, etc to see that these emulators tend to start strong with lots of games somewhat working but the final step of fixing all the glitches and bugs just never really happens. I think getting the basics working tends to be fairly easy but going the final step and fully emulating all of the hardware features tends to be too big a hurdle to be surmounted.
These emulators are made by people in their spare time so I don't begrudge them for not wanting to spend days trying to guess how undocumented bits of hardware work! It just seems after the successful early years where NES, SNES, MegaDrive, etc were quite easily emulated that the more modern systems are just too complicated to easily emulate.
@Faruko Pretty much everyone who uses emulation are pirates. The method that Nintendo allows is that when you purchase a game you're allowed to make one copy of the game you bought as a back-up and it has to be a dump of that specific disc or cartridge.It's illegal to make or distribute any more copies or download one(other than the VC in which you're sold a license for that copy). So even if you own the game you can't just go to a ROM site and download someone else's version of it.
WiiU emulation in particular will be very dubious as computers can't read Nintendo WiiU's proprietrary discs, so you need a WiiU to create dump/copy of the game to export to PC. Anyone who says they're looking forward to Cemu to avoid having to buy the WiiU will only ever be pirating.
@smashbrolink
So you expect a mod to tell the admin he can't keep his article up?
@Sakura Actually as far as i know the PS3 can actually run homebrew and backups too, iirc the same people who modded the Wii ended up doing the same for the PS3. The PSP is hacked too. The Vita is hacked to play homebrew and emulators, but not backups. I'm sure the Vita's limited library makes it less desirable for people to mod or emulate, but i'm sure the more advanced tech in it compared to a 3DS makes it more difficult too.
The 3DS has been out for some time and with the success of the DS hacking scene, and the ability to work off the homebrew scene already on the DS, the 3DS has only been finally able to run backups and unsigned code of significance in the past few years. I believe it took over 3 years for anything major, outside of DS mode, to be done on the 3DS. I don't mod current hardware, updates and a belief in supporting current games makes me refrain from doing so, so im far from an expert on the subject but afaik it really did take quite a while for the 3DS to get to the point it's at now, and it's nowhere near what the DS was.
I think the 3DS being ahead of the curve has more to do with it's age than anything else tbh. Basically Nintendo is a little bit ahead of the curve for emulation and console modding but Sony really isn't far behind, in fact PS3 emulator does exist that can run a few games. Actually even the 360 has an emulator that can run a couple games. It's pretty crazy what people can do, the definitely don't make it easy.
@smashbrolink There's not really much else to say to that other than "too bad". This is the way things are, and it's not changing, regardless of anyone's personal opinions on how unethical emulation is.
Too bad for Smashbrolink that on several occasions, US supreme court judges deemed emulators as legal under US copyright law, due in part, to the fact hardware cannot be copyrighted.
Good job Nintendolife! Keep promoting illegal stuff!!
Good to hear that preservation of our gaming history is progressing.
@Kevlar44 Thanks again! I forget most of the time that the 3DS is actually old for a piece of tech. Plus I don't really know the details, just snippets of info from title threads I see splashed on a homepage and occasional reading of those threads when they pique my interest. I suppose if enough people work long enough at something, someone somewhere will find a way. Personally, I'm not too comfortable with "backups" or emulation, but I admit I do find the technical achievements impressive all the same.
@Waluigi Sorry if I sounded aggressive; that's not how I meant it.
I was also unaware that you're unable to do anything as far as removing articles.
@MortalKombat2007 I was under the impression that the mods here had a bit more power than that.
Guess that's my mistake.
I don't understand why they're creating an emulator for a console you can still buy in stores. This will just create even LESS demand for Wii U. NES? Sure, you're not gonna find that new, but Wii U? facepalm
@Faruko I didn't say it was, I said the technology could be used for piracy. Illegally made copies of the games is a breach of copyright, and against the law. Why do you think every single game made in the last 25 years (and then some) forces us to sit through an exciting screen explaining the copyright year?
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