Two Tribes Announces That RIVE is Now a Development Farewell

I don't know why they feel like they need to leave Game Development. If the way they do things is profitable then do they really need to do those other things?

I wish them the best of luck and look forward to RIVE.

@DefHalan

The way they do things isn't profitable. Thus having to lay off almost their entire staff after Toki Tori 2 failed miserably.

It's a shame, because the middle ground is quickly eroding away. There will soon only be low budget games like Meme Run and iOS ports and stupidly expensive AAA blockbusters. There won't be room for good little games in the middle anymore.

I didn't like the Toki Tori series, but I did like Edge and Rush and Rive looks great. It's a shame to see the studio go.

NOOOOOO!

We need more Two Tribes and less Rovio!

I was playing, again and again, RIVE's demo and waiting for news about this game... this is so sad. I prefer the "old style" (?) gaming, but if the bussiness is not profitable anymore for these guys... there's nothing we can do.

GG

No! This is sad news.
Toki Tori 2 is a masterpiece. I played it from launch day on Wii U and it made a lasting impression to this day. It is a game so perfectly crafted it made me fall in love with their studio! So naturally, I was really looking forward to RIVE and their future creations, but now my Two Tribes love will sadly end with RIVE.

Never enjoyed any of their games myself, so not a great loss personally. But it's still sad news. Hopefully Rive does well for them

Very sad but I get it, the perspective on gaming has changed so much in the last decade.

How about actually investing some time and work into getting to grips with today's industry and how it works, instead of just saying 'oh we don't get it so whatever we give up!', or maybe getting some people to do it for you if all else fails? If making games was my true calling, I sure wouldn't give up so easily... :/

Much respect due to Two Tribes. This is sad news. As a gesture of thanks for their efforts and great experiences with Toki Tori, Edge and Rush, I shall purchase Rive day one, without a doubt.
Thank you for your games, Two Tribes! It's been great!

Well I'll be buying RIVE and I've purchased Rush and Edge on two platforms. They definitely have the chops, but I can see where it could get tiring trying to fight the tide on a race to the bottom.

I find it quite sad that good developers (imo) feel like this so much they have to leave making games altogether.

Nintendo should buy them asap too develop smaller titles and I am looking forward too playing Rive I wish them the best for the future.

So... even if RIVE was extremely profitable, they would quit? That sucks.

Aw
B-but, Shin'en and VD-Dev are really old indie devs that are still chugging along just fine. Is the situation that dire?
Then again, it must be since Nintendo is the biggest dinosaur of them all and is the slowest of any dev nowadays to adapt to the modern era, yet are still pretty successful.

Jesus Christ you scared me. I thought Rive was canceled. Sad to hear this will be their last game though. It looks very fun. I enjoyed the demo, looking forward to it.

Thanks for all the messages guys and girls! We read everything

@TruenoGT With you on that. I think Nintendo have got (almost) everything right, and I hope they don't feel pressured by the wider industry to "adapt... OR DIE" as some would put it; because I'd rather the latter than the former, personally.

@AVahne I think that more and more of the middle-market developers will find it harder to pay their bills over the years. Game development is getting bigger and more complex, and just making a single £10 title every couple of years and paying the bills entirely on sales is getting harder and harder in a market where more and more people are finding the notion of even paying for these kinds of games disagreeable - I mean, what if I can get it in a bundle for a dollar six months down the line? Or on a steam sale with a hefty 70% discount? Not every developer can afford to do these kinds of incentive deals and even if they actually -do- participate in them, the 10,000 key sales and "exposure" it nets them rarely translates into any full-price sales of their other titles.

The market seems to be in a race to the bottom right now, devaluing a lot of download-only and lower-tier titles to the point that the business is actually becoming hostile to anybody who has the gall to release these kinds of games. It's a shame, because we're losing a very valuable and interesting segment of the market as a result.

How disappointing. I loved Toki Tori, Edge, Rush and really enjoyed the RIVE demo

So wait, they feel they can't keep up with trends, but the Toki Tori games are loved and RIVE is highly anticipated as a great game. Sounds like they don't want to deal with the issue of working with social media outlets and don't want to learn to adapt.

Free-to-play isn't inherently bad, either. Implement it right and you've got an amazing system for your game. Heroes of the Storm has a great system; I know it doesn't work for all games, but it's a shining example.

Sad to see them go. Their philosophy on games has been a dying breed for over a decade now. Here's hoping RIVE is such a success that they reconsider!

That's a darn shame. Hasn't been a single Two Tribes game I haven't loved & enjoyed greatly. I think Toki Tori 2 is my favourite which I bought at launch & loved. No hand holding & you have everything you need (toki tori's actions) to beat the game right from the start. Sad news indeed.

Noooooo...
Life is unfair sometimes.
I'll miss them.
Also, Toki Tori 2+ is fantastic. It's on Wii U and Steam. Play it!

@A01 Now that you said something, I remember hearing about layoffs, I just assumed it was more of the normal kinds of layoffs after a project is finished, when there is nothing else to work on. That is too bad. I understand what you are saying about the middle ground disappearing, I hope it can hold out. I hope RIVE does well enough to keep Two Tribes going. Hopefully things will get better for them.

@tudsworth very well said and exactly how we feel about it as well

@CB85 'Give up so easily' ?? That seems incredibly harsh, I'm sure laying off all their staff wasn't easy for them. I don't really have any idea how much they've been struggling these past years, do you?

I've really enjoyed their games and wish them all the best going forward, whatever they decide to do, they're clearly both very talented. I shall continue to look forward to Rive.

@tudsworth very well said and exactly how we feel about it as well

Shame, then. I love the first Toki Tori, and RIVE looks great. I greatly prefer their approach to current trends in game design.

Pity they can't just find the right person to hire who understands all of this.
Or maybe they can try and sell to Nintendo, their games are a perfect fit for Nintendo, Wii U, 3DS and even Nintendo Mobile. If Nintendo hired them, a Two Tribes game each year would be great.

Honestly, if the full game is as good as the demo they released, they're at least basically going out on top.

though it would be kinda funny if this game became a huge hit or something

What a shame! I have Toki Tori and Edge on my Wii U, in fact my daughter was playing Edge just a couple of evenings ago. But if they don't like the way things are going and don't wanna be a part of it, we will have to accept and respect it but I think it's a damn shame. If this happened to the likes of Nintendo, I'm out, I'm done. Good luck @TwoTribes

Thanks Two Tribes! I always enjoyed their games and, to be honest, Rive is the game I'm waiting for the most, more than any other that is scheduled for 2016. But I think that it's no surprise as I'm a grandfather too (37 and rolling ....)

I bought Toki Tori on Android. I bought Toki Tori 2 full price on WiiU. And Edge and Toki Tori HD on WiiU. And downloaded and enjoyed the Rive demo. Here's what I think. These guys need to either work faster or scope down to smaller projects. And stop with the Toki Tori. And learn to use middleware. Middleware allows you to work faster, with no real determent to you other than potential licensing (and upfront time to learn). Ultimately it sounds like the emotional stress of the layoffs and burnout are the root issue. I'm sure they are brilliant programmers. Now they can have that job programming embedded ventilation control systems they've always dreamed of. It will surely pay more and be less stressful.

They've been around for over a decade and how many games have they produced?

If Nintendo were to buy them I think they'd be under even more pressure to deliver games on time... which is clearly an issue.

I have a few Two Tribes games on my Wii U and enjoy them a lot. Thanks for making some great games and I wish you well in what happens next!

Really sad news for gamers and of course two tribes, they really have done very little wrong. I guess the industry is just so ruthless right now that quality games is not enough to keep in business. We can only hope that rive is a smash hit and makes them re think

@TwoTribes
Wish you guys well. If it's any comfort, I know I'm buying Rive day one- looks absolutely amazing- and I'm sure a number of others here feel the same way.

I will say only this: Dinosaurs have been and always will be way cooler than any of these other new-fangled animals we get nowadays. And they're still remembered a long time after they're gone.

What a complete non-reason. I bet if it does really well they'll change their minds.

A real shame. I can't say I agree with the reasoning, marketing people can be hired, engines like Unity and Unreal can be learnt and F2P etc are just options, it'll be a long time if ever before that's the norm. I believe there will always be a space for the 'pay up front and get the game without restrictions' model.

But that being said I have huge respect for TwoTribes so if you guys are deciding to bow out gracefully I think you've earned it. Really looking forward to Rive, loved the demo. Hope you guys come back to games later in one form or another! In the mean time best of luck with whatever you choose to do next

I hope they still work somewhere somehow or someway within the creation of game development I really have enjoyed the games they have made , RIVE looks amazing it's been on my radar since I heard of it can't wait to play the game in its completion loved the demo ., I think they are wrong about being dinosaurs and I feel they are needed in the gaming world I mean maybe they need to play some of the garbage that these young devs. somehow manage to get released, however it turns out I hope them the best and thanks for the great gaming .

It makes me so sad to hear. Two tribes makes such fine games. Played the demo of Rive and it's truly a gorgeous shoot 'em up. Good luck guys.

I think they're a strong development outfit, sad to hear the news.

I hope Nintendo can bring back a middle road to the industry as essentially that's where much of their content lies as well. Sadly, the Wii U was not a hit in the mainstream where it needs to happen. The broader gaming market needs more popular segments than just mobile games and $100 million budget games. If Nintendo can breakthrough with a successful platform that reinvigorates essentially the industry that exists in Japan, but on a global and more independent friendly scale, then developers like TT might have a viable option and not have to resort to 'simple, little one-off games' priced at a buck and hope to sell to a lot of people looking for cheap software. It's not a great place for every independent developer. People should sympathize with devs like TT, that existed when publishers like THQ (RIP) could make a business selling moderate budget games on the shelves of actual game shops.

It's a bummer and we need the talent to make these great games. I love toki tori, and really enjoyed both games.

Good luck guys. Your games still make me and my kids smile. Make sure you get to creating great stuff again somewhere down the line.

I'm so excited to buy RIVE. It looks like a perfect action game. Simple but with enough complexity to keep it interesting. A callback to classics like Contra Hard Corps.

Behind these glasses i'm hiding my tears!

Goodluck with whatever you guys are planning on doing.

Thanks for the games!

Totally up for this. Loved the demo. What a way to bow out.

The disappearance of the middle of the market will prove to be a bad thing, I believe, both for consumers and for developers trying to make a living. Imagine if your cinema options were only blockbusters on the big screen or short YouTube clips on your phone.

I still play the E3 demo occasionally (though generally right before bed when I'm not at my most skillful) and look forward to buying Rive, at a price that values Two Tribes' work, when it launches.

Sad news!

Two Tribes has consistently done great work for a long time. Toki Tori 2 in particular is out one of the best games I've played over the past few years, and was enjoyed far more than many other "critical darlings" that sell well but weren't worth playing.

Moving to different pursuits might be a smart decision - if game development isn't profitable and enjoyable then it's the right move - but it's still a sad moment for all gamers!

On the bright side, RIVE looks like an amazing swan song. If you're going out, might as well do it with a bang... Best of luck to all involved with Two Tribes over the years!

@AVahne Shin'en pushes Nintendo systems to the limit and get that sales numbers they need and they are only 6 guys lol. So they don't need MASSIVE profits to pay a big team. They got a good balance.

Most of what I wanted to say has been said. I will say that despite their feelings they are showing some sly marketing savvy here.

Looking forward to buying this.

@tudsworth

No one could have described the modern gaming landscape any better. This is the thing that has saddened and frustrated me most since 2006. There's no home for the middle ground devs anymore.

And I'm part of the problem. I loved the crap out of that RIVE demo, but I wasn't planning to purchase it until it got discounted months after launch. I've been trained to think that way about every downloadable game now. The value of games truly have become devalued to me.

However, as a sign of respect and admiration I have for TT, I will purchase RIVE on Day 1. Thanks for some amazing games on my Wii U, guys and gals.

Rive has absolutely been the #1 game I'm looking forward to on Wii U since the demo dropped. Sad news but glad they're still releasing it. Hope it's great and a real success for them.

Sorry for my bad english**Translated

It´s a shame, should it end like this.
I myself am someone with great interest in this industry and have recently started with unity .

I see TT from 2 points of view , on the one hand they lead the quality-games on the indie scene , on the other hand , I wonder how they bring their games to customers.
(It s like Bayonetta, Platinum Games)

I think your advertising is too low and the games could easily sell better

The biggest mistake is the game selection.
Puzzle games, Jump n Runs, Slow games in general are out (indie), but jump n runs and puzzle games are slowly coming back and exactly these games makes TT.

Wanted are shooter, Armored Vehicle games, fast game in general, here Rive has a good chance.

I would first publish as a first step a 15-20 minute video of Rive.

I am waiting since 2014 for this game, but nobody knows about this game guys.
Maybe send 10 minute videos to websites, post them on youtube, but do something and don't sleep!

I have seen 3 Videos since 2014 and all around 3 minutes.
Is that enough for you? (A demo it s ok, but you can´t play demos on youtube)
You cannot buy what you do not know.

@TwoTribes I'll be very sorry to see you go. I genuinely mean this, you're one one of my absolute favourite indie developers. My first experience of your games was Toki Tori 2 and let me just say, WOW! What a phenomenal game. Didn't know what to expect. It's cutesy presentation belies its genius. I've since played Toki Tori and bought Edge, Rush and Swords & Soldiers. Very much looking forward to Rive and I wish all of you the best in the future. Thanks for entertaining us. I hope it's possible that you reconsider your decision.

And to everybody else reading this, buy some of their games please, particularly Toki Tori 2. It's a masterpiece. You won't regret it, it's a savage puzzle game. Really works the grey matter.

@TwoTribes Your message to the community is laughable. You guys really think you're special don't you? There's a word for that.

Two Tribes is special.

I'm sold, trailer reminds me of Metal Slug except faster paced. As for Two Tribes retirement, I agree, the only way to go out is with a bang, so for all our sakes, I hope they do themselves proud.

Toki Tori 2+ is the best puzzle adventure on the Wii U eShop period and one of the most interesting games I ever played. It's absolutely genius. It's also the perfect Nintendo game because it has the quality of a Nintendo game: the love to detail in the graphics, music, puzzles, and most notably in its unique and innovative gameplay. It is simply fantastic. Even 3 years later, and probably forever!
In fact everything from Two Tribes is easily worth its money.

RIVE is just going to be their next masterpiece. I hope as many of us as possible are going to buy this game to send this amazing developer an equally impactful farewell.

I am betting that the fact that most of their games didn't sell particularly well contributed to this decision quite a bit. Still I bought Toki Tori 1 and 2 but have yet to play them though from what I have read they look like excellent games. Good luck to them and whatever they end up doing!

With the amount of time it takes these guys to release niche games to a relatively small install base it's not hard to figure out why they aren't breaking the bank.

Rive looks very good, though.

@TruenoGT To be honest the market would love what Nintendo are doing but they isolated themselves early on with Wii U. I'll never forgot the lack of advertising, PR and the wall of silence that lasted for months from Nintendo HQ as it's systems suffered months of abuse.

Nintendo dropped the ball from around 2008 to 2013 big time.

Its sad. They're clearly talented and can make great games, maybe they could focus on that and leave the other stuff to others?

@luke88 Yes that's what it sounds like to me from this article.

@Dezzy How is that a non-reason? They lay off about all their former staff 2 years ago, and only a small core is left. What proof do you see that there will be a more financially manageable future for indie developers?

This sounds very sad! And if you feel you are out of touch, get in touch! They are actually aware of it, instead of oldies like Miyamoto.

As for free to play: Be happy that you never tried it! Its extremely evil and needs to go!!

By the way: I'll download Rive if the price is right. The demo was fun. But september, seriously?! I thought the game was already finished for months!!

@Chanchozoka
"We need more Two Tribes and less Rovio"
You just won the internet.

What a shame, but at least we're still getting RIVE. I thought that article title meant that it was to remain unfinished.

Perhaps we can reverse this by buying the crap out of RIVE. This probably just means that the more determined Two Tribes members will simply form a new studio.

Toki Tori 2 is a great game. Anyone with a WiiU should try it. It's as good as the great eshop games like Shovel Knight or Fast Racing Neo IMO

Really sad to see such a studio go, though. Guess we haven't supported them enough, it seems...

@jariw

You seem to have completely ignored what I said. "If this game does well."
If this game does well= makes lots of money.
How does making lots of money not equal a financially viable future?