One of the most pleasing reveals of the most recent Nintendo Direct broadcasts - for retro fans, at least - was confirmation of Super NES titles coming to the New Nintendo 3DS Virtual Console.
Various titles were confirmed for the first few weeks of the service in North America and Europe (see link above for the line-up), yet more details for Japan point the way to the longer-term outlook. For example more Nintendo games are confirmed for the Japanese store - these are Kirby's Dream Course, Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem and Fire Emblem: Geneology of the Holy War. The Kirby title is a good bet for the West, though the Fire Emblem titles have to be classed as maybes; hopefully the positive performance of Fire Emblem Fates in the West will encourage Nintendo to bring these SNES entries to the global market, but we're not holding our breath.
Third parties are pitching in for Japan too, which promises some classics from Capcom and Konami. The following are confirmed:
- Mega Man X
- Mega Man X2
- Mega Man X3
- Mega Man 7
- Street Fighter II Turbo
- Super Street Fighter II
- Street Fighter Alpha 2
- Final Fight
- Final Fight 2
- Final Fight Guy (aka Tough in Japan)
- Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
While not every one of these is a dead cert for a Western release, the majority certainly seem likely in light of their previous Virtual Console releases.
Which of these games do you most want to see in the 3DS Virtual Console in the West?
ugh dont want to hear anymore on this as I cant get them being an old 3ds owner, nintendo are mean!
I'm particular impressed that the N3DS can manage Mega Man X2 and X3.
These titles are usually harder to emulate because of their special chip usage.
Interesting, the Mega Man X games are somewhat tempting....But still, no upgrade for me just yet.
Can someone clarify if you can change the controls in the vc menu. I heard they went with the japanese button layout meaning a is jump for Mario.
i don't see why the original 3DS can't get SNES games as well because it's not like the extra power is needed to run them
just sounds like a bid to get people to buy a New3DS to me
@jeb_leeds No you cannot map the controls. The controls are identical to the SNES versions.
Final Fantasy 6 would be nice.
I will buy all of them because I love SNES and I have been waiting a very long time to get quality ports on a handheld!
@FullbringIchigo pretty much.
Oh, how I wish US and Europe got these titles as well. I'm hoping Square Enix will join in on the fun.
@KrakenSoup which button is jump for Mario in the 3ds version a or b?
"Fire Emblem: Geneology of the Holy War"
Don't hold your breath for that one. Unless you're OK with the complaining about Fate's localization being magnified about a thousandfold.
@FullbringIchigo totally agree, if the 3ds can handle 3d heavy games like Resident Evil Revelations for Example there is no way the hardware cant handle a much smaller 16 bit game, its just a ploy to get people to upgrade and I think its very greedy of nintendo. they could release it for both formats and make even more money. I dont think the majority of people will fork out another £120 just to play old snes games. its truly greedy.
@FullbringIchigo How do you know what it takes to run them on 3DS hardware? Please enlighten us.
Nintendo is way too desperate to sell off their New 3DSes. SNES games run perfectly fine on the old hardware via homebrew (even the PSP runs SNES games just fine), so this is obviously just them trying to suck as much money out of their fans as possible.
@lemonjellydude Same to you - please regail us with your technical understanding of the hardware considerations in these emulations.
P.S. - if you sell your 3DS the N3DS doesn't have to cost you £120.
@jeb_leeds Sadly no option to change controls.
F-Zero has been breaking my hand so far to play.
I would so love Genealogy and Mystery of the Emblem. I've only played Genealogy on a emulator, and the remake of Mystery of the Emblem (also emulated).
@lemonjellydude A 16-bit styled game, yes. Actually emulating a SNES on the 3DS is quite difficult, and requires more processing power than the original 3DS has. The original 3DS definitely couldnt handle it. There should be a huge discount for people that already own the game on wii or wii u, however.
all of them.
Konami playing nice with Nintendo?
With anyone in gaming for that matter?!?!?
@getyourak does it use the super famicom controls or the snes? I think the a and b buttons switched
Not really it just a cheap way to make money you do know thats what konami stands for these days
I can't believe that demon spawn of a company Konami is allowing this to happen. I feel like that company sold it's soul to the devil.
I didn't even DARE to ask if the SNES VC on 3DS would get third-party support, and here we are! This line-up surely is promising: if Square and other devs join the fray, the 3DS might well become one of the most complete
handheldsconsoles in history.
Still with Konami being Konami, I doubt they could do anything at all about the SNES VC being New 3DS-exclusive. And despite me owning a New 3DS, I'm as annoyed at this as you guys are.
(Maybe it has something to do with the exact reason @RupeeClock mentioned...)
@ThomasBW84 Hey, it's actually Legend of the Mystical Ninja. "Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon" is the N64 game - a wonderful but highly unlikely addition to the 3DS Virtual Console.
Floating around on Reddit somewhere, I saw a user force their N3DS to run Super Mario World at O3DS processor speeds.
It was just like when Xenoblade Chronicles 3D is forced to run in O3DS mode, it's unbelievably slow.
Great news. Now if only somebody could convince Konami to put Sunset Riders and Gradius III on SNES VC...boggles my mind why we haven't gotten those yet.
@jeb_leeds I'm not sure.
For F-Zero on the N3DS acceleration is B, brake is Y, and Speed Thrust is X and A. Shoulder buttons remain the drift/ease left and right.
Salt in the wound
Cross buy Nintendo, cross buy.
People, if you already purchased these games digitally, don't do it again. All you are doing is enabling Nintendo to continue to ignore giving us cross buy.
3DS. Homebrew. SNES. Emulation.
Use those search terms in the Youtube search bar.
@gcunit well if the GBA could play SNES games (a few were released on the system) and the 3DS can play GBA games (via VC) then it stands to reason that the 3DS can play SNES games
plus the fact it's powerful enough to run full 3D games
@ThomasBW84 Final Fight Guy is Final Fight 1 with Guy replacing Cody. Final Fight Tough is Final Fight 3
I said in the other thread I think they're just not supporting Old 3DS as a bad attempt to push the New one. No way the Old couldn't support it.
Forcing an app on New 3DS to simulate it running on 3DS is NOT the same thing as actually running the app on the actual hardware.
Hopefully this will lead to more SNES VC-games in general, as they can be released on both the Wii U and N3DS. Final Fantasy 4 and 6? Localization of V? Other third party games missing on the Wii U?
@AVahne Homebrew emulation is god awful. Actual full emulation is more difficult.
But I wanted the Turbografx Konami! T.T
Actually it is. This is exactly how the N3DS will run various 3DS software which is not N3DS enhanced.
The system is underclocked to perform at O3DS levels.
Exactly the same as how the Wii will run Gamecube games, it switches off unused features and runs at lower capacity.
@FullbringIchigo I wasn't around in the GBA days. Did GBA have VC or were the games ported from SNES to GBA? Because a port is different to an emulation, as I understand it.
What the hell? They SHOULD have been putting out SNES games the whole fricking time and now only for the New 3DS? Screw you Nintendo.
I used to regularly buy everything on the 3DS until about a year ago when they stopped putting out much that I wanted. Way to keep me not caring Nintendo.
@FullbringIchigo Nintendo knows that SNES VirtualConsole isn't going to be a New3DS system seller. Sure, it might push, say, maybe about a thousand owners to upgrade, but if Nintendo really wanted to make money off of these games (And they do), and they could put them on the regular 3DS, they would do that because they would make more money off of the VC sales than they are going to get now on New 3DS sales. My point is, it's obvious the regular 3DS can't run SNES games with a performance Nintendo is happy with, because if it could, Nintendo making them New 3DS exclusive regardless of the fact they ran on a regular 3DS would probably be an extremely dumb decision from a business standpoint in every regard. Just my two-cents, anyways.
Really liking the fact that Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon is a possibility. I never got to play this one fully, but had the N64 version but this would be pretty good.
@Sinton We'll probably get the US II and III (Maybe the first one on NES as well for the hell of it.). Square Enix have been supporting the Japanese Wii U VC a fair bit and we did have Tactics Advance recently, so hopefully they're just getting started on the cureent gen VCs.
Fair as the full FF 1-6 experience goes, I think its more likely you'll get it on Wii U with the GBA and DS ports/remakes.
@gcunit the games were massively simplified, with a big reduction in color palette, framerate, screensize, etc. They definitely didnt just full on put SNES games on the GBA. Looking at the first digital games on the DSi, even that wouldn't even come close to being able to play actual SNES games.
fair enough I wasnt saying I knew Im just really surprised the original 3ds isnt capable of running 16 bit snes games.
@FullbringIchigo Remember that this is Nintendo we're talking about. They are technical wizards in many ways, but unfortunately, they can't make a proper emulator to save their lives.
@russellohh The PSP can run a SNES emulator just fine, no hiccups. That includes playing the SuperFX 1 & 2 chip games, and others like Mega Man X 2&3. It's weaker than the 3DS. Why can't the 3DS do it?
It's not because of the 3DS specs, it's because it hasn't been fully unlocked, and Nintendo doesn't want to put the effort in otherwise.
Isn't it funny that Sony's over 10 year old portable with a modded OS can play more retro Nintendo games than the Virtual Console of Nintendo's 5 year old portable?
The 3ds homebrew can run snes games fine (by that I mean on older models) so yeah this is just a ploy to get people to pay for a new 3ds since Nintendo made zero games for it.
@russellohh Which sugests we do have some people spouting off without knowing what they're talking about. Fancy that.
I've finally got a Super Nintendo folder on my 3DS, hype!
Contra 3 is a day one, so long as it has download play... and maybe Final Fight and Street Fighter.
These games will have download play, right?
Might pick up an SF game wont be Alpha though, that had enough trouble running on a SNES
@gcunit they were ports but the point still stands the GBA was powerful enough to play SNES games so the 3DS being more powerful than the N64 should be unless there is some other reason for it
@mystman12 that is possible but if that is the reason then Nintendo should come out and say it, it would stop all the confusion
@FullbringIchigo The GBA can't play SNES games. Those were ports, they basically just remade the original games for GBA hardware. I don't think you realize what emulation actually is. Emulating a game isn't just running the original game on newer hardware, it involves something along the lines of actually simulating the original computer that ran the games, and then loading the game into that virtual computer. Which, as you can guess, takes quite a bit more power than the original games themselves used. And, for example, the SNES wouldn't be powerful enough to run an SNES emulator since it would be running a virtual version of itself on top of the original game.
Another thing to remember, is Nintendo doesn't just want to get these games running and then release them. They want to make sure they run well, with all of the 3DS' features available like the HOME menu, browser, Miiverse, etc. This is why the GBA games were never released to everyone because, since those aren't emulated (3DS runs at lower power), those features weren't available. Thus, I don't think Nintendo was happy enough with how they ran to be comfortable selling them on the eShop.
@XCWarrior I totally agree with you. Especially now with the creation of the My Nintendo Account thing, cross-buy should be implemented. I already own a lot of these games on Wii and Wii U, and as much as I'd like them on my N3DS, I won't be paying again. I would however consider paying a small upgrade fee (like Wii->WiiU) in the range of $1-2.
@lemonjellydude No offence, but you have no idea how emulation work. It's not about handling "a simple 16-bit game", it's about emulating hardware with instantaneous response times with software: the new hardware emulating the simpler/older hardware therefore has to be VASTLY (and I DO mean "vastly") quicker than the original one.
Runs fine for the games I've tried. Any problems with the emulators would be due to them being works in proress.
That's all well and good, but where's Square-Enix's contribution?!
Give me Secret of Mana or give me death!
@dadajo You got personal experience of that? Have a read around SNES emulation on handhelds - I'm seeing a lot of grumbles about performance.
Has anyone else in Canada noticed that the price of these SNES games on N3DS is $11.29 CAD, while on Wii U it's $7.99 CAD. Why charge more on one platform? There's no way I'm paying that price, especially when I've already purchased a lot of these games on Wii U. It's too bad, as I was genuinely excited about playing these games on N3DS.
@gcunit Let's see, Unofficial SNES9x for PSP... Works just fine on a modded PSP, and I have one too. Imagine that... Sony's old portable can play the whole SNES library, and 3DS can't play much of anything.
So what's the point of the new My Nintendo account system? I already bought some of these games on Wii, paid extra and transferred them to Wii U, now I have to buy them again if I want to play them on my New 3DS?!
@jjx1000 This is the company that charges money to transfer games downloaded on a Wii over to use on Wii U, instead of just doing it for free like any other company's system would... What do you expect?
@PlywoodStick Also, the SNES has been emulated in the past on a plain old DS (Not perfectly, though) Also, there are SNES emulators on the GBA. (NOT the ports, there are actual emulators for the thing!)
Although there were some hiccups with the emulation, remember that the 3DS is nearly as powerful as the Gamecube, which could handle N64 emulation! (And I'm referring to that Zelda collection with emulated OOT and MM.)
@Mommar And yet you're reading this article.
@PlywoodStick The whole library? A bit of searching and all I'm seeing is forums of people mentioning slow down at various parts of games. Sure, maybe some people have had success with some games, but I have a sneaky feeling you're sugarcoating it.
And besides, the idea that the 3DS is better suited to SNES emulation over PSP is debatable. Emulation isn't always down to raw power. Many factors play a part in the successful emulation of a given game on given hardware.
I'll be happy to get Super Mario World and the DKC trilogy for on-the-go. I'm also thinking of holding off on Mega Man 7 until it hits the N3DS over here - might as well have that on there since I got the Legacy Collection.
@SuperDude95 Right, but one has to use lolSnes and a flash card to do that on a regular DS. It's impressive, but it requires buying something to make it work. Can't just transfer the files by USB onto a custom OS.
Pocket SNES functions for GBA, but it can't play sound files, and slowdown is common.
As many others have said, it's basically because of the extra things that are forced to run in the background for VC games, on top of having to emulate a console that isn't natively built into the hardware. The DS is, which is why it has no issues playing DS games. I have a cart that has an extra processor inside devoted to helping run SNES/GBA, and they still kinda run like garbage.
@SuperDude95 The existence of an emulator isn't proof of it working seamlessly. Search DS SNES emulation and I see talk of abandoned projects and nowhere am I seeing perfect 1:1 emulation.
Wish Capcom w/could bring JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Heritage for the Future over!
@SuperDude95 Listen to @IronSammet - someone who can speak objectively and from experience. He/She's used a cart with an extra processor and performance still isn't 1:1.
So many people griping on this topic with questionable knowledge about it. Do your research and find a 3DS emulator (that doesn't utilise external chips to boost performance) that has flawless 1:1 emulation of SNES and you win this comments section. I bet you can't.
@CharlieSmile You bet your sitting muscle it would be nice!!!
I want to see Secret of Mana and its Japan-only released sequel! OH! and Final Fantasy V! That'd be neat
I feel lik 12$ is a bit much for SNES ports... and they are not even in 3D which sucks even more IMO
@PlywoodStick That's great for Sony's PSP. Too bad it's also illegal.
@gcunit It does take some work and research to know which emulator and settings work with which models. For example, SNES9x TYL is better for 2000/3000/Go, while SNES9x Euphoria is better for 1000. Automatic SRAM updating also needs to be turned off, since games like Super Mario RPG will otherwise pause every other second. Also, frameskipping generally should be enabled at a rate of 1 second.
I never said it was perfect emulation, just "fine" emulation, all things considered.
Wow I guess the Japanese are equally getting ripped off by their fellow countrymen. Being a Japanese company I would think Nintendo would continue to shower gamers in their own country with favoritism (getting earlier releases and Japan only games), I guess they get equal treatments this time around. Since Japanese are generally more frugal they probably won't pay full price to redownload what they already paid for.
@manu0 Illegal or no, the point is that Sony (unofficially) does what Nintendon't: actually run retro Nintendo games on a portable console! Legalities or no, Nintendo isn't even trying to make this work.
Also.... Some Bomberman would be nice...
@PlywoodStick How would you feel about dropping your hard earned $/£s on "we never said it was perfect, just 'fine'... all things considered"? That's not really a sentence I can imagine a multinational company like Nintendo wants to put on their eshop.
The list of games I want is not short. I know some of these will NEVER happen, but here are a few I would love to have on the go:
Castlevania: Dracula X
Knights of the Round
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs
Spiderman Venom: Maximum Carnage
Saturday Night Slam Masters
Super Star Wars/Empire/Return of the Jedi
The Adventures of Batman & Robin
Stunt Race FX
@Hordak OMFG - I hadn't even thought of Super Star Wars/Empire/Return of the Jedi. Pls pls pls plsplsPLS
I also really want the original Yoshi's Island. Can't bring myself to buy any of the ports.
As a 2DS owner I can live with the SNES games not being playable on my model.
But since Nintendo has rediscovered the 3DS VC with the Pokemon Gen I games and SNES titles for the New 3DS owners, could they toss some bones to older 3DS owners as well?
Maybe give us some of the NES games like Earthbound Beginnings, Star Tropics, and VS Excitebike?
Or maybe some more Game Boy games would be nice.
@FullbringIchigo Homebrew developers found out that the O3DS simply does not have the hardware power to emulate SNES games without major problems creeping up.
@gcunit I think EA controls those games now and Sony has exclusive rights to them in the near future.
So, it might be awhile before we see those games on Nintendo platforms again.
@PlywoodStick Wishful thinking I guess. We'll just have to wait until Nintendo comes out with new "New" My Nintendo account system in like 5 years to be able to buy a game once and play it across all platforms. Of course they probably won't make it retro active so they'll make us all buy the games another time.
Genealogy of the Holy war.....make that for the West NoA......
@Caryslan Didn't you see me say "Pls pls pls plsplsPLS" - surely that's enough to swing the deal, no?
Unfortunate that Nintendo is again being lazy with their VC releases. They could have gone the 3D Classics/M2 route by rendering some of these games in stereoscopic 3D, but instead have left the big hook of these simply to be that they're New 3DS exclusive. How disappointing. Worst of all, if they do release some Japan-only games, they'll surely release them in an untranslated state (as usual).
Mega Man! Fire Emblem! Givem to me now!
@gcunit Welcome to the modern day gaming industry. "We never said it was perfect" is rampant nowadays pretty much everywhere, including Nintendo consoles. Just look at the popularity of early access titles. Just look at some of the junk that gets approved, even for eShop. I don't personally buy unfinished games, though, barring some Kickstarter backings.
I get that making a proper emulator for 3DS is hard work. However, a much smaller company, GOG, has been bringing back retro PC games with tons of legal entanglement, weird DOS emulation requirements, incompatibility problems with modern OS's, and other oddball problems that pop up. Yet, despite their small size as a company, they get it done.
Why can't a big company like Nintendo pull that off with their own proprietary library, of which only they know how it all works?
Something tells me the pace of release isn't likely to be much faster than the pace we've seen on Wii U with Wii games.
This just makes me want Turtles in Time for the VC even more. That and Knights of the Round.
@Socar Nah, just emulate it. If it gets brought over here officially, it'll just get censored, leading to yet more controversy.
Woah woah woah. They don't charge you to transfer games from Wii to Wii U. They allow you to transfer all games from Wii (last gen) to Wii U (current gen) for free- something neither Sony or even MS does (at least MS is getting there, despite only 2% of the library being available ATM).
They charge to upgrade to a newly developed version, yes. But you can play the exact game you bought on Wii U free of charge. Let's keep it factual here.
I want one of the street fighter games and maybe contra but maybe not.
@gcunit I played many games fine when I tried it out. Simcity, Super Mario World, and Mega Man X for example all worked fine for me. Mario Paint didn't but that didn't have the mouse and Super Mario Allstars didn't even load though that may of been because of a faulty ROM or the emulator not being completely optimized yet (Or maybe me being stupid and putting it in wrong).
I do realize it is one thing to run a game and another to run a emulation but I really think the regular 3ds could run any snes game if a offical Nintendo virtual console emulator was made for it. I mean the gba couldn't be much better power wise compared to the snes and my 3ds runs my 10 ambassador gba completely fine.
@JaxonH Sorry, that's what I meant, the upgrade. I described it wrongly. My bad!
Edit: Just looked up PS3 games upgraded to PS4, Sony also charges, but they charge $10... Woops.
Kinda sad that they do it at all, in any case. X_X And I transferred my Wii purchases over to Wii U, so I knew that process is free.
Cool, games the US will never see due to NOA, awesome.
I would like to see the 2 FE games on NA/EU VC. Even if Genealogy of the Holy War would definitely get censored, and Mystery of The Emblem would likely be censored (dunno much about that game - I've only played like 10 minutes of that), I'd still buy them if I had money.
Fire Emblem aside, I would love to also have Super Street Fighter II. Although, that's a likely release on NA/EU VC because at this point, Street Fighter is basically modern Capcom's biggest main franchise.
Oooooh! Panel de Pon!!! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!????
Well, in fairness, no one else charges for an upgraded version because no one else lets you transfer in the first place, and those instances where you can (select 360 games, for example) they are not upgraded versions like Wii U VC is.
I mean, it is what it is. Yesterday people were complaining about 3DS VC being dead- today we can rest in the knowledge all the top SNES games are coming to New 3DS.
I have faith in your explanation, though, and it's not because actually owning a NN3DS "makes it easier"; I know that Super Nintendo as a whole can be a pain in the backside to emulate. Heck, even my smartphone messes up at times.
@JaxonH The .50 to $2 per transfer doesn't look bad compared with $10 for one transfer with certain PS3 > PS4 titles.
I don't like it, but yeah, like you said, it is what it is. At least this is some kind of progress on the VC front. Hopefully, they'll use their experiences to actually nail it next time with NX.
Oh most definitely. I fully expect online accounts and some form of cross buy for NX (if the rumors are true, that won't even be an issue because it'll be one device that works as both).
But right now, it's the home stretch of Ninty's 7th gen. I'm just happy to see more VC on 3DS- I honestly thought it was dead for good (as did most here I imagine)
@NoirUsernameHere mystery of the emblem was remade into Shadow dragon and new mystery of the emblem for the DS. I would love to see them localize FE12 as well and put out on the WiiU VC and maybe the 3DS.
Woooo! DKC 3!!!
@TruenoGT Depends on your emulation settings, your choice of emulator, your PSP model, your choice of custom OS, and your hardware settings (like overclocking the CPU or not). It won't just instantly run well, like it will on PC or Wii. (Interesting how a modded Wii can almost perfectly emulate even the non-VC SNES games, even though it has less RAM than the 3DS, and a single core versus the 3DS dual core, even if that single core CPU is a bit more powerful.)
Super Metroid coming? Did they say?
I remember waiting for YEARS for DKC trilogy to release on Wii U- checking the Thursday updates religiously, stalking the ratings website for any hint of localization...
And whattaya know- we get DKC right out the gate! So glad I own a New 3DS- it just keeps paying dividends more and more
I'm done rebuying games. Until Nintendo lets me play the vc games I've already purchased on all their platforms, I'm not dumping another cent into the vc.
@JaxonH The Japanese releases that aren't exclusive to Japan, like the old Fire Emblems, should be coming over too. The question, then, is the time table.
Alright, so... I am one of the so called 'hardcore' Nintendo fans. Ok, maybe not so hardcore as to be insane enough to go out and buy every single Amiibo there is, but I have been a Nintendo fan ever since the 80s.
I bought a Wii, and although having mixed feelings about it, in hindsight, I must say, that the Wii definitely offers experiences, you can get nowhere else and I treasure it for that. Most notably, the Wii Virtual Console.
I have to admit, that I am lucky enough, to be able to own an Xbox360 and PS3 as well... in regards to that Video Game generation. I haven't really upgraded yet to the generation of the PS4 and Xbone, although owning a WiiU (some people count it toward that generation, some people don't).
But ever since Sony 'invented' that one thing, called 'crossbuy', something really started to bother me, with Nintendo.
Alle the years, I always somehow got the feeling, that, when buying a game on a Nintendo platform, I somehow felt like having made an 'honest deal'. I paid my money, and I got a game worth for it.
With the rise of the 'free to play' model, and the DLC, which has been very present on PS3 and Xbox360 and is even more so present on the PS4 and Xbone (and also PC, btw.) I kinda start to feel more and more cheated. Granted, there are games, which definitely feel like full experiences, owning the base game itself (for example Witcher 3), but all too often it feels like game companies are still trying, how much they can F..K the customer, before he says: ''Until this point, and no more!''.
With Nintendo, I always felt like they were the very last ones, still retaining that 'old' you get, what you really paid for model. - Up to this day.
You know, I was willing to put up with some quirks, Nintendo was doing. I was willing to deal with the, basically non existand online infrastucture with the Wii and also, the WiiU. I was also even willing to deal with the 'non-crossbuy' option on the Wii and the WiiU. BUT.... when they pulled the same thing on the 3DS AGAIN... wanting to have your money AGAIN, for the same Super Metroid game, which I already bought on Wii.... and again on WiiU..... and they want now A THIRD TIME on the 3DS (all of which I own).... THAT is the last straw, that broke the camels back.
I don't care, if the 'unified Nintendo account' is just around the corner. I don'T care that Nintendo is, technically a generation behind...... BUT I DO CARE, that Nintendo seems to have taken a way.... waaayyy too close look, at 'Apple' it seems. Asking themselves: ''Hmm.... how can we F..K our loyal customers even deeper, than we did even before?''. - You know, that was the first thing, I as a loyal Nintendo fan thought to myself, because even as a Nintendo nerd, there are limits. And this is it.
But... no!!... Oh wait.. I was wrong.... no no..... the SNES games (Super Metroid among them) will not even come out on the 3DS, no no!... Although the 'old' 3DS is more than capable, it will only come out on the 'New 3DS'... oh yeah baby. You know.... the new handheld from Nintendo, that no one ever asked about? The one, which is able to load exactely 2 games faster than the old 3DS, namely Smash and.... ehm... and...... the Xenoblade game.. which won't even work on the old 3DS.
I am pissed... I openly admit it. But put yourself in my shoes – wouldn't you be? Of course, I'm not completely bonkers..... I don't HAVE to have every rendition of the same game on every Nintendo device I own. But – owning not only their home console, but ALSO owning their handheld... woulndt you think, that this fact would be some kind of 'advantage'????..... Or do you expect, to be treated like some kind of 'supplicant' ????
AGAIN – I don't care, what comes in the future, some day, whenever.. THIS IS NOW!.... I bought, with my hard earned money all of Nintendos home consoles.... I bought all of their handhelds. I look to Sony... a player which came far, far later in the game.... and who gets it right, offering crossbuy on a lot of their titles..... and here I am, having stuck to Nintendo, and being treated like whatever.... being expected to buy the same game OVER and OVER and OVER and even OVER again!!! (if you take, for example Mario Bros 3... or of the many other games).
This whole thing has reached the point for me, where, despite ALL THE LOVE, I feel for Nintendo, I say: ''NO!!... F..K NO!!!! This is it.''
Your know... there is a limit. Of course I am sure, a lot of you will laugh now... laugh their asses of about the problems I have in my life. I am a normal person, just like you. But Nintendo is one of the things, I liked to indulge in, after a day of work.... a thing, I was still sure of, would treat me fair, as a customer. NOT treat me, like Sony, or Microsoft.
But that dream has finally stopped. I have finally woken up from that fantasy. You know Nintendo. It is one thing to want to capitalise on your past. I get that, and I even loved you for it. - BUT.... wanting the price of admission A 4TH TIME, FOR THE SAME GAME IS ENOUGH. (3 times, if you take Super Metroid into account, 4 times if you take Mario Bros. 3 into account, and a hell of a lot more, if you check the rest of all the games)
So Mega Man X-X3/Super Castlevania IV... I can't play these anywhere else, but I'm not buying a N3DS for them.
Wow, this is awesome news! It'll be great to have some SNES classics available on-the-go.
Upgrading to the New 3DS was already worth it on so many levels, and this is just icing on the cake.
Is this why Mega Man 7 wasn't in the Legacy Collection? So they can sell it for $8? Oh Capcom...
Nintendo wasn't offering crossbuy on 3DS VC before with any of the NES games. Did you REALLY expect them to start now?
People complained about 3DS VC being dead- they wanted new VC games to buy. Now we are getting that. Seems poor timing to bring up crossbuy- I mean I agree with the sentiment completely but, they've never offered it and certainly won't happen until next generation.
Good, some Super NES classics are always nice, would be much better if they bring their other games to VC as well such as their Arcade, NES, Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, Nintendo 64, and Turbo Grafx-16 library.
OMG KONAMI. You're gonna make me get Mystical Ninja twice? Jfc I mean if I have to.
A lot of people complaining about this - I really don't see why. Did anyone buy a regular 3DS because Nintendo promised that you would able to play SNES games on it? If you already have the games on Wii U (as me) - why do you also need to have it on the N3DS? Nintendo: damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I'm pretty upset about the whole "New 3DS only" thing with the SNES VC games, i upgraded to 3DS XL two years ago (I have big monkey hands ), but to buy another 3DS is really pushing it, how about Nintendo drops the "Scrape along with ancient technology"-schtick and releases the good version of a console the first time?
I think it's also important to acknowledge we all knew beforehand, when buying these systems, that crossbuy was not a feature. We knew it before we bought the hardware. So to act as if this is some unforeseen insult is maybe a tad disingenuous.
I don't think you're "expected" to buy anything. There are more than 40 million 3DS owners who don't own a Wii U, who don't have access to those games and haven't purchased them yet. And while not everyone has a New 3DS, at least they now have the option to upgrade and take advantage of yet another exclusive feature of the system.
Point being, Nintendo was not scheming behind closed doors, contemplating how to screw you over, of that I assure you. The more likely scenario is they ran out of top sellin VC on 3DS, and are simply expanding the catalog. Buy if you want, don't buy if you don't want.
No cross-buy or discount. No buy. I love the games, would love to have them, but thats quite a bit of money. I double dipped on a few NES games, but SNES games are quite a bit more expensive. Considering I have a ton on Wii U, as I definitely supported their VC, and all the new games coming out... Its just too much.
I somewhat agreed. I'm only cherry picking my faves (I skipped Pilotwings for example) because it does add up. Plus I have a faceplates 3DS for on the go (XL is for home play) and I like to keep digital copies my choicest faves, so that one I only bought SMW.
I do kind of feel Nintendo jumps the gun releasing tech before its fully matured. Like, original Wiimote technology was perfected mid-gen. 3D capability was perfected mid-gen. Even Wii U's near-zero latency wireless tech will likely be used as fully matured technology next gen (that one was still awesome tech now though).
Oh man that would be awesome! NA release of FE Holy War, Thracia 776 and Mystery of the Emblem?!! Heck ya! I mean ya, I already can play all of them on DSi/3DS in English thanks to DStwo, but an official translation would be AMAZING!
@Smash_kirby I know. But yeah, I would love to see FE12 localized myself.
looks like the same old line up that Konami and Capcom have alreadt thrown on to the Wii and WiiU VC. Oh well, the SNES VC on the N3DS seems to be a wastd already.
Another griper I'm afraid.
Not fussed about SNES games, think they're overpriced, the downloads will drop off in a few months as they always seem to, and I still don't see a reason to upgrade (can't see why these aren't on regular 3DS)
Pleased for all those happy about this though.
@HCFREAK I was quite interested in your story... until you said the old 3DS is just as capable, then I knew the rest wasn't worth reading.
I don't even mind about no cross-buy, but I would like to be able to transfer from Wii U to N3DS.
Due to time, money, and circumstance, I didn't get Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts for Wii U as of yet so, if it came over on 3DS, I more than likely would get it.
I spy, with my little eye, Earthbound (Mother 2)
Konami do a deal with Nickelodeon and get the TMNT games on there.
C'moooon Star Fox and Final Fantasy 6!!!
It's too bad this is only for the New 3DS. I would think at least some SNES games would play fine on the original (it can emulate the GBA Ambassador games, after all, one of which is an SNES port). Even if these were coming to the regular 3DS, though, I probably wouldn't buy them, unless they came with big discounts for people who already own them on the Wii U. I might pay a buck or two, but I certainly wouldn't buy the games at full price again, just to take them with me.
Skeptical side of me thinks they are requiring New 3ds for these SNES titles just to stimulate more New 3ds sales. I have a hard time believing the 3DS can't run SNES titles... I remember playing emulated SNES games on the old family Gateway computer with a 166mHz pentium 1, 16 MB Ram and no special GPU. They ran good enough for not needing to spend $70 per title. Sure, superFX chipped games didn't work back then too well, but I'm sure the 3ds is significantly more powerful than a 20 year old computer.
I just don't buy it, and I won't be buying a New 3DS to play Retro SNES games. Nintendo wants to mess with the retro gamers like me with the money? That's fine then, I have the complete SNES library and a retrousb controller adapter for my real SNES controller... The games I care about work perfectly and are playable on a large screen tv.
Wait a second... I was clearly, unmistakably refering, the old 3DS being capable to run THESE Snes games... as stated. I didn't say per se, that the old 3DS is as capably in all and every way as the new one.... but.. I am not surprised, if you didn't read any further. Why should I be?
Quote: ''But... no!!... Oh wait.. I was wrong.... no no..... the SNES games … will not even come out on the 3DS, no no!... Although the 'old' 3DS is more than capable, … ''
Or are you for real, and think that the old 3DS is not capable of handling a SNES game?
@Mbrogz3000 If Nintendo discontinue support and production for the original 3DS, then you will have to.
Cross buy would great.
@TruenoGT not sure how garage you computer is but the snes games I have played through retro achievements' emulator, the have all run perfectly. It is usually a controller issue more than anything. The 3DS is more than capable of running snes games. Nintendo doing this is them just trying to get people to upgrade the lazy way without putting actual effort into it.
Shonenjump86 in fact said it... ''Cross buy would be great''
Of course, anyone is entitled to his own opinion. But even the ones saying, that every one, buying into Nintendo products can NOT deny, that cross buy would be better.... or do you really stand there and say: ''No.. I hate cross buy... I WANT to pay double.. I really like to pay double''
So we can all agree, that cross buy is better.... or can we not? …. so...why Sony DOES what NINTENDONT?
@MysticX Every console goes through multiple iterations as developers work to improve the hardware. It's been true since the days of the Atari 2600, regardless of the hardware company.
As I said yesterday this is a slap in the face to older 3DS owners. There is no reason these games can't run on the older 3DS. This is just a ploy to sell New 3DS. I am done supporting Nintendo. The Wii U and 3DS will be my last Nintendo consoles.
I know this isn't SNES OR 3DS, but I would love to see Dawn of Sorrow on the Wii U eShop.
Thank you Tasuki.
I was beginning to suspect, there were no more people on here, with rational thinking.
All the complaints and wild conspiracy theories around here are hilarious. I'm not sure why it's so difficult for people to believe that doing this right simply takes more power than the original 3DS was capable of. These two pieces taken together might offer some insight:
I upgraded to a New 3DS last night for SNES games. It's completely worth it, in my opinion. Paying for the games again is not an issue either since Nintendo never stated that the original 3DS would have SNES games on it. I also didn't get the New with hopes that it will eventually get something hat I'm not promised up front. It seems like that would be irrational thinking on my part. As for cross buy, upgrade fees, etc...., again, I don't care. I have paid for digital downloads of CDs I bought years ago. Same difference to me.
Or buy a Vita, where all your phone titles which you downloaded, as well as any games bought on your psp, as well as two free games a month if you happen to have plus, add up to a hefty virtual library. Nintendo could have and should have launched cross-buy alongside this.
@Tasuki Actually, you're just plain wrong. There's a reason why Nintendo threw in those GBA games as freebies for Ambassadors and never sold them on the eShop. If you can understand that, you should be able to understand that running SNES games on the 3DS VC posed significant technical challenges.
@HCFREAK There is very few of us left, that's why I don't frequent this site as much, not like I use to say 5 years ago or so.
I got SNES games running on my DSi through homebrew. Sure, they weren't perfect, but it makes me wonder why the 3DS can't seem to get them right.
Sometimes Nintendo do things where, when the dust settles and the analysis is complete, the only conclusion is that they're pushing their fanbase to see what they can get away with it. This is, on two levels, one of those times.
@kirbygirl If I can run an emulator and super Nintendo Roms on a 15 year old Gateway PC there is no reason that a 3DS can't. Or are you telling me that a 15 year old PC is more technically advance then a 3DS, if that is that's just plain sad.
@BensonUii It's called coporate greed that's why. They need to make up the money they lost on the Wii U and being that their handhelds have always done better....
Nobody is saying one exists now. What they're saying is that if home coders can get the PSP and 3DS (add Dreamcast to that too, BTW) making a decent fist of SNES Emulation, it's very hard to believe Nintendo with all their inside knowledge of their own systems couldn't do it. Especially when one can see a business incentive that would help persuade them not to make the effort.
Well ok.. then I really guess, that the slogan is true, 20 years later: ''Sega does, what Nintendont.'' - because most (not all) of those Sega 3D Classics, where ports from the Sega Mega Drive. (and even in 3D, which means double the power is needed)
Or should I say: blast processing ^^
@BinaryFragger Completely agreed. I didn't get it on Wii U so I would love to have it on N3DS
Is it a coincidence the N3DS has SNES coloured A, B, Y, X buttons?
@electrolite77 You call it a businesses incentive, but how many people are actually going to upgrade just to get SNES VC? Do you think Nintendo really thinks it will push people into upgrading?
@HCFREAK Those are ports. Ports are different.
@Tasuki I don't think Nintendo would find the quality of your emulators up to snuff.
If these come to the west it will leave me in a dilemma... on the one side I want to get Castlevania 4 and Contra 3 on my new3ds... on the other hand I don't want to give Konami any money due to their recent behavior.... so I don't know whether I'll buy them or not.
Final Fight Tough is the JP version of Final Fight 3, not Final Fight Guy. Final Fight Guy has the same title in Japan.
@BensonUii It's a business they don't have to make sense. They want to push the New 3DS how can they do it? By offering a service that people want on a new device and excluding it on older models. Car companies do that, Apple does it with the iPhones, every console does it with a new system. It's just how business run. They don't care about the 55 million owners of the older model.
@cmk8 Try paying for Earthbound at a reasonable price on eBay, or other rare games for less than 8 dollars.
God dayum... you're right..... oh shoo.... that's it.. the old 3DS can't play SNES games, because the buttons aren't colored in the same way, it was the case, with the SNES controller.... nooowwww I understand it.
@kirbygirl Yeah because they ain't getting a dime from me that's why. Of course they wouldn't find them up to snuff. Maybe if Nintendo would get off their high horses, and give people want they want we woldnt have to find alternatives.
Well.. wait a second... sure, these are ports.... but what would you call it, if Super Metroid comes to the New 3DS?.... don't tell me it's not a port.
Until you invent an adapter, capable of cramming the original SNES Super Metroid catridge inside the New 3DS, it always is a port. How else would it work?
THE MEGAMAN X GAMES. OMG.
I'M SCREAMING PLEASE BRING THE MEGAMAN X GAMES TO THE WEST OH GOD
No I don't. They know that the people upgrading are their hardcore fans, coincidentally the most likely to pay a second or third or fourth time for SNES games they've bought in the past (and even upgrade for the chance to do so). This is another chance to milk them with minimal effort.
Well, those Rockman X with chips will probably be mine if they come here. What would really be great would be an official translation of Genealogy and Fire Emblem 3 for the West _. For this, I will pay their full price, even if it seems not cheap, to encourage such decision and maybe a potential remake of Geneaogy of the Holy War later ( too late for the New3DS, sadly)
@iamDTS Not sure about Megaman X but emulators on 3DS can run Castlevania IV.
Castlevania @TrueWiiMaster To be fair, the old 3DS modles are running any of the GBA roms I tried out perfectly, as long as they are used through the official Nintendo Ambassador VC emulator. What I mean is: the console is able to run far more GBA games than there were in the ambassador program.
@gcunit @Hordak When I saw the New 3DS first photos, I instantly thought "Super Famicom", it was clearly made on purpose. But the timing to start the releases is very bad, more than a year after the console Japan release.
@CharlieSmile With the execrable adaptation of its first US release? The GBA version translation was way more accurate.
@kirbygirl The thing about that is, you're talking about 100% perfect hardware emulation through software, which requires bending science and nature to gruesome ends to replicate. No one else here is talking about achieving 100% accuracy in emulation, not even Nintendo can achieve that handily. That's not the point.
No matter how much doping you take silicon wafers through, you're never going to reach 100% purity, only 99.99%. The same applies here. Everyone just wants an emulator that is 99.99% or even just 99% accurate. No one is realistically trying to achieve 100% accuracy in emulation, except maybe as PC experiments.
So yeah, that "not up to snuff" stuff you're saying is just a lot of hot air.
Guys, Gals... I was running Mega Man X on a desktop pc back in 1996 or 1997, single core pentium 1 @ 166mhz.
Those little superfx chips ran at 10MHz to 20MHz, so writing a block of code to mimic and emulate their instruction sets on today's hardware...lets just say the coding doesn't need to be efficient. 3DS has a multi core ARM processor used in smart phones, and has more than enough excess capacity processing to easily handle any SNES title...even with the nice VC software shell and state save system in place.
How about Breath of Fire 1 and 2 and the snes square enix titles.
In this thread: Armchair emulation developers. You know who you are.
As for me, I have a New 3DS and I won't even be buying these as I have a backlog of excellent Steam games to play, many that cost roughly the same as a 20+ year old game emulated on modern (yet still dated) hardware. The classics are great don't get me wrong, but buying them multiple times is just silly, especially at such a high price.
@Pianomanfreak Yes! Having Breath of Fire 1 & 2 and FFIV and VI on the go would be heaven. I still have my remake of IV I can play, but I don't own anything anymore that I can play my GBA cart of VI on. I dearly miss that masterpiece of a game.
Can't say I'm all that interested in paying $12 for a game here, maybe if it was the same price all around and I would be interested, still got other ways of playing the games as well so...
Me: * gets angry when Nintendo decides to only release Virtual Console games that I want on Wii U to drive console sales, because EVERYONE should be able to play these classics
Me: * perfectly fine later when the games I want start coming to New 3DS, but not the original *
It's not my fault, it's hard to address my own hypocrisy through these tears of joy!
so so many mistakes by Nintendo this generation, I guess may aswell sign out with one more by releasing this only on N3DS , Just a nice way to say F U to the all the original supporters who put up with not just 1 but 3 totally new model changes , I'm done with Nintendo until next generation they are not getting a penny out of me .
We're going to have yet another handheld pushed out to us in about a year to year and a half... Which probably won't support these VC games we're being asked to buy again and have already bought... That's the issue I have with being indirectly asked to buy the New 3DS.
Anyway Nintendo needs to work with the old IPs to come up with a profit sharing scheme where customers have unlimited access to the complete NES and SNES library, either for a monthly or yearly fee. I'd pay $80 per year for that combined with competent multiplayer connections on the Wii U or NX. If you stop paying, you can't have access anymore, and you lose access to the library.
@gcunit I upgraded for SNES games.
I have most of these on my Wii U but I will definitely be getting Mega Man X again. Anyone know if they will be discounted if we already have them on Wii U?
New 3DS update coming next month: it consists of a plug, which can detect if it is inserted (and you dam well know, of what I am speaking). You gotta sit on it, while holding your New 3DS. Only, and I mean only then, will you be able to play N64 games, exclusively on your New 3DS.
Bet it will sell, like hot cakes
GOEMON! OK Konami you got me.
This comment section is hilarious. But it can easily be settled if the people advocating for SNES VC on the old 3DS actually provide one thing, and one thing only.
If anyone can provide evidence that an old 3DS can run a SNES emulator at Nintendo emulator quality standards (which aren't the best, mind you), then your side wins.
However, anecdotal evidence and comparisons are not enough to win. Mentioning other computers and their performance is irrelevant.
As someone who was in Speech and Debate in high school, and as someone who thoroughly enjoys judging it, it is extremely easy to tell that the only criterion that dictates which side wins is whether or not someone can provide a working SNES emulator on an old 3DS.
@mikegamer fully appreciate that and was pleased to buy both Earthbound and SMRPG on the WiiU VC.
Still playing the latter.
@NoirUsernameHere The fan translation is nice though. I need to play through the desert section of the game.
Nintendo uses a high end one to prevent any questionable stuff to guarantee 3rd parties that their games are safe.I personally do not mind it being new 3ds only due to I have one but I do not have a wii u so cross buy dose not really matter to me.I do not know why is everyone mad at this.
@RupeeClock I'm impressed and excited. I've been searching for a copy of X2 for years. I've also been wanting to try Mega Man 7, but from what I've heard, it's not worth $200 for the cartridge.
@AVahne PSP runs SNES games like trash. What are you even on about?
SNES games won't run at a framerate that Nintendo wants. I'm 100% sure that that's the reason. I just don't understand why people won't believe this.
@RupeeClock SMW already runs a 60fps on o3DS on homebrew emulators.
@Smash_kirby I should get to playing that someday, then. I almost did once.
Not head over heels over this since console games are meant to be played on a console but hey more options.
I'm personally waiting for the GBA and DS to be 3ds bound. Even if I have to upgrade.
Yeah they're trying way too hard to sell the New 3DS. Curious though, how exactly are you getting SNES games to run perfectly on the PSP? The emulator I use on my PSP doesn't run some SNES games too well. (Am I allowed to talk about homebrew? I dunno). Are you sure it runs them ALL perfectly, or am I just using an outdated emulator?
It may just be certain games. I tend to play games that are relatively light on the hardware.
Iwata would approve no cross buys.
@AVahne @Onion @CrimSkies97 Depends on your emulation settings, your choice of emulator, your PSP model, your choice of custom OS, and your hardware settings (like overclocking the CPU or not). It won't just instantly run well, like it will on PC or Wii.
I'm very happy to see this but it should have happened a long time ago and these games should be on the regular 3DS and 2DS too.
At this point, every portable should be supported on 3DS VC, and basically every single Nintendo console ever (both home console and handheld) should be supported on Wii U VC, imo.
How dare Nintendo try and push a product! I'll proudly play f zero and hopefully Street fighter 2 on my new 3ds XL. I have had all the 3ds models and this one is truly great, but needs more exclusive features. The is one.
@FullbringIchigo because extra power IS needed to emulate games like Super Mario Kart and Donkey Kong Country 2 properly.
It took a 3.0ghz processor to run SNES emulation on a PC with 1:1 accuracy, the original 3DS is a dinosaur in comparison. It's incredibly impressive that they managed to do it on the N3DS to be honest with you.
There is no conspiracy here.
@AVahne Super Mario Kart, MegaMan X2/3 and Donkey Kong Country 2 don't even work on Blarg SNES. Let alone the fact that when running Blarg SNES misses out on standard 3DS features such as Miiverse, Streetpass and such running in the background at the same time. The original 3DS is incapable of emulating SNES games to the degree that Nintendo intended them to.
@Tasuki provide me with video of a 3DS emulator running Super Mario Kart, Donkey Kong Country 2 or MegaMan X3, oh you can't, looks like it isn't a conspiracy after all!
From what M2 said about how much trouble they had getting a Genesis/Mega Drive emulator working properly, needing the power of the New 3DS to get SNES emulation to an acceptable standard is totally plausible. The SNES is a more powerful console than the Genesis, and many must-have games on it needed extra chips on the cartridge. I'm sure the old 3DS could handle Super Mario World, as I remember DS homebrew being able to do it without too much trouble, but accurately emulating more complex games at full speed with restore points and suspend play and Miiverse integration and StreetPass and the whole 3DS OS running in the background, and getting all that working to Nintendo's standards - that could be pushing it, especially if they don't have a lot of resources to push into VC development right now. The GBA is roughly on par with the SNES, probably a little behind overall, and the Ambassador games were not up to Nintendo's usual quality standards - they don't even go into sleep mode when you close the lid, or pause emulation when you press the Home button.
@Chunky_Droid Nice try but as per rules I can't post a video of that cause it's a current gen system. But your free to Google 3DS flashcarts. Point match game set.
@manu0 Good point. Jails these days are just full to the brim with PSP modders who have a Snes emulator. Barely a day goes by without some shifty-eyed so-called retro gaming fan getting sent down for a 10 stretch. Hangings too good for them.
I grew up in the SNES era so having them portable is a dream come true since I don't own a Wii U. This could also mean that in the future Game Boy Advanced games and old DS games will get this treatment.
@TruenoGT the 3ds hardware can handle snes roms without trouble. Not sure about PSP but snes, yes.
They need to talk to square Enix and get mario rpg as well as some other jrpg games on here.
@NoirUsernameHere Your my unit character is summed up in "Don't say S*** about my liege."
@Tasuki done, and I'm still right. Thanks for leading the way, you are far from game, set and match lol, not even close. Here's some choice quotes I got from people who are currently emulating SNES on a 3DS.
"Boot up Chrono Trigger, Dream Land 3, Kirby Super Star, Mario RPG, Megaman X2, Megaman X3, Pilotwings, Star Fox, Super Mario Kart and Yoshi's Island, and you won't be saying it's perfect. Apparently even Zelda is broken in the latest version."
"Afaik you can't suspend your 3DS while using blargSNES, which is bad if you want to play in short bursts without closing and reopening it everytime. Or was this somehow patched? Especially bad for games where you can't save often or when you wanna use it on public transport and your stop comes along."
Dude, even GBATemp has a compatibility list that shows a tonne of games that don't run very well on 3DS hardware. And this is WITHOUT running Miiverse, the OS, home screen etc.
It is FACT that the 3DS is not capable of running all of Nintendo's major SNES games, half of the ones on the list in THIS VERY POST don't work.
Look, I'll let the compatibility list do the talking:
Super Mario World: No blurry transition effect.
F-Zero: Apparently runs fine (I seriously doubt it's 1:1 emulation)
Super Mario Kart: Stuck on Nintendo logo
Super Metroid: May crash on rare occasions
Earthbound: Game has some graphical glitches, but otherwise loads normally. Some battle backgrounds are discoloured unless hardware rendering is disabled. Some battles have minor slowdown. Music and SFX glitches every once in a while, nothing major.
Donkey Kong Country: Apparently no issues (again, doubt it is 1:1 emulation)
Donkey Kong Country 2: Black screen on boot most of time. Eventually works after a few tries.
Donkey Kong Country 3: Black screen on boot most of time. Eventually works after a few tries.
Kirby's Dream Course: Apparently no issues.
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past: Crash after selecting a save file. Affected by SPC timing? Works great with 1.2. Enemies seem to teleport when Link tries to dash.
Wow, those first party games sound flawless and amazing, I so wish Nintendo released these years ago with the ability to run all of the background commands, it'd be even worse, which sounds right up your alley! Let's try some 3rd party games shall we?
Mega Man X: Music slows down sometimes.
Mega Man X2: Black screen after intro.
Mega Man X3: No cx4 chip emulation.
Mega Man 7: Music slows down sometimes.
Street Fighter II Turbo: Has a lot of graphical and sound glitches.
Super Street Fighter II: Character sprites are glitchy, but game is playable.
Street Fighter Alpha 2: Black screen
Final Fight: Works on 1.2 (but not after it updated, this emulator is the best!)
Final Fight 2: Works on 1.2 (but not on 1.3, woo!)
Final Fight Guy (aka Tough in Japan): Look at previous 2 Final Fight games.
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts: Appears to work perfecty besides some occasional lag when there are many sprites on screen
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon: Apparently works fine
Contra III: The Alien Wars: Finally works well apparently
Super Castlevania IV: Slowdown in certain areas.
Now, just because YOU have such low standards in emulation, doesn't mean Nintendo are going to release a half-baked service. Current flashcarts running SNES games aren't running them in native 3DS mode, which is a requirement for VC. I think I've made my case here.
@hypercoyote Because I didn't realize it was for the "New 3DS."
I wish Nintendo had cross buy, I have a lot of these on the Wii U already and would love to have them on my New 3DS as well, without having to buy them all over again...
I know for a fact that the older 3ds can play snes games because I own one on it (and no it's not homebrew.) When I pre ordered Dragon Ball Ultimate Butoden for 3ds I got the japanese snes game Dragon Ball Z Super Butoden 2.
That was a port, not an emulation dok5555555.
Also, one game does not mean every game will work.
Konami ain't getting a dime from me. The amount of disrespect they displayed to the people that made them who they are is not deserving of any kind of support.
@lemonjellydude Im glad i didnt get a 3ds until the new one came out, there really werent too many great reasons to switch over if you already had a 3ds...until now
@Chunky_Droid FU I don't have low standards just because I don't believe Nintendo's B.S. I have low standards. Sorry but I don't need saves states and all that added crap. As long as the game runs that's what matters. Did most of those games have that stuff original. Yeah ok I will continue this conversation when you get your head out of Nintendo's rear. You want to waste your money on a New 3DS cause Nintendo claims that SNES games won't run on an older 3DS that's fine. As I said there are other ways I can play SNES games.
@Tasuki, I am disappointed that when you ask me to go Google, I follow your direction and find more evidence to prove what I am trying to get through to you, all I get is an "FU".
lol, I guess when you get proven wrong you delve into crybaby/name calling mode. Nintendo is not going to cater to YOU personally, so yeah, people would be even more annoyed if they didn't get the features present in other VC titles. The sooner you realise that, the easier it is to understand that you are being ludicrous with your assumptions.
My head isn't in "Nintendo's rear", you'd realise that if you saw that everything I have told you has been backed up by solid evidence, not theory, like you. You have yet to prove a thing, SNES games don't run properly on o3DS, deal with it.
I honestly can't tell what you're arguing here. Are you saying that people are stupid for saying that the SNES works on the 3DS? Then making the argument that they're getting ripped off anyway as their old customers are getting ripped off somehow?
These games were already out on Wii, though noone plays their Wiis anymore.
Ok, that's just the way it came across is all, thanks for replying.
@Chunky_Droid It's not worth trying to reason with those who choose to be stupid. I don't know jack about programming myself, but even I can understand that providing a 1:1 emulation of an SNES game would require a lot more horsepower than the average person realises.
In my experience, emulators rarely keep a steady framerate, and other issues may arise that we take for granted. While I'm not happy with Nintendo's pricing model for VC games (which is a separate issue), they understand very well that their brands still hold value, even their less impressive catalogue titles and I applaud their commitment to providing the most accurate emulations possible of their games (even if they're being trickled out at a frustatingly slow pace).
@sillygostly So because Nintendo won't provide a service to a current system but will give it to another model we are the ones being stupid? What Nintendo is doing is wrong and greedy. When they came out with the redesigned Wii did they say "Sorry only NES games will only work on the redesigned Wii now?" Did the white Wii U 8 gb only play NES VC games while the Black on played NES and SNES? When Sony and MS brought Slim PS3 and Xbox 360 did my XBLA or PSN games only work on the new slim models?
No in every case when a redesigned of a current gen system came out it had the same functions as the older models.
This is just wrong of Nintendo absolutely wrong. Don't get me wrong it's sad that Nintendo is resorting to these kind of tactics considering how much I loved them in the past but this is just unforgiveable. I would expect this kind of thing from other companies but not Nintendo.
I upgraded to New 3DS XL today after the Direct yesterday. Can't way to play SNES games on 3DS.
@sillygostly seems like he can't use logic to keep arguing with me over it so he's attacking you now. Good work Tasuki, keep on being classy.
@Tasuki The redesigned Wii wasn't more powerful and you're using an easier to emulate system as the basis of your argument. The slim models of PlayStation 3/Xbox 360 and having PlayStation 3/Xbox 360 games work on them isn't even the same argument. There are NO tactics at play here, it's the same as when we got the DSi, that had a camera, did you have a whine that the original DS didn't play camera games? Probably, actually.
"So because Nintendo won't provide a service to a current system but will give it to another model we are the ones being stupid?"
Actually, they are providing the service to the current system, but not giving it to an older model.
Higan, the only emulator on PC that is capable of running every SNES game flawlessly at 1:1 emulation (including being the only emulator that can run Speedy Gonzales entirely) requires a 3.0ghz processor. The original 3DS only outputs an ARM11 MPCore which is only capable of up to 1.0ghz.
Please, come up with something logical in your argument, I feel like I'm getting stupider reading your conspiracy propaganda.
@Chunky_Droid I am not attacking anyone, but whatever I forget in order to partake in an actual conversation around here is to act like Nintendo can do no wrong. Anytime anyone says anything bad about Nintendo you guys here accuse people of attacking others. Yeah I will start acting classy when you and all the other Nintendo fanboys wake up and really see that Nintendo ain't what they use to be. I feel sorry that you can't handle the truth, really I do. And that's all I am going to say about that anymore. And now I remember why I don't come around here as often.
Nintendo is done supporting the Wii. They've already put most of these games on the Wii VC. And Nintendo knows internally if they are still selling. What's your point? Right now they are focused on supporting the 3DS and the Wii U. That's an illogical stupid counter-argument you have there.
@Tasuki: For the record, I'm hardly a fanboy, I play my PlayStation 4 far more than any of the other devices in my house. That's just a general term used by people who can't back up what they say with facts.
Not once have you disputed any of the logic I have presented to you. Not once have you accurately backed up ANYTHING you have claimed.
I am not acting like Nintendo can do no wrong, I am telling you why you ARE wrong, there's a difference. I am not speaking for other members here who clearly are fanboys, but I don't jump down the throats of everyone that nay says Nintendo. Hell, SNES VC, Paper Mario and the new Kirby game were the only things I was excited for out of the direct, the rest of it was pretty "meh", but that's my opinion.
Nintendo not being what they used to be is the natural order of business and is a product of time. No company is like what they used to be. Nintendo used to dominate everything, now they're floundering in the console business without a way to dig themselves out of it, I can easily admit that because I am not a fanboy.
"I feel sorry that you can't handle the truth, really I do."
This is where you get stupid, what exactly aren't I handling? I am the only one here giving rebuttals to your arguments, you haven't disputed a thing I said lol.
Your ranting and raving shows to me you have no rational argument and are just going to shout "I'M RIGHT AND YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT" until someone listens, I feel sorry for you.
@Tasuki : The new models have the same functionality as the old models. The old models will NOT have all of the functionality as the new models. Do you even realise what you're saying? Nintendo have not deprived you of doing anything that the original 3DS is already capable of doing.
Nintendo have not removed anything from the "Old" 3DS. The New 3DS is capable of things that the old one isn't due to an upgraded CPU. That applies to virtually any kind of electronic or electrical device. When a newer, often superior product is released, it contains additional features that the older ones don't. Similarly, older smartphones may not be able to run newer apps that have been optimised for more recent models. Does that make mobile phone manufacturers "heathens" and "traitors" to their customer base? =/ Then what of the Game Boy Color? Were Nintendo "horrible" and "greedy" for making certain GBC games exclusive to the GBC hardware and not ensuring compatibility with the monochromatic Game Boy as well?
It is NOT in Nintendo's interest to restrict a product range from an audience, particularly when you consider that the original 3DS models have sold around 50 million units (compared to the 4 or so million of the New 3DS). Nintendo would be far better off catering to the majority audience but evidently, SNES emulation to the standard that Nintendo has aspired to simply isn't possible on the old 3DS, hence its exclusivity to the new hardware. Criticisms are only as valid as the arguments/evidence that you present, and you've only reacted on emotion, without a shred of evidence to suggest that perhaps SNES emulation (to the degree that Nintendo have aspired) would be possible on the old 3DS. Hell, even NES emulation seems to be giving the old 3DS a beating.
@Simbabbad Nor do i claim to have the technical knowhow im just surprised
I'm glad they are finally DOING something with the N3DS, bought it on day 1 and whilst the stable 3d is really good I've been dying for some "exclusives".
@PlywoodStick I won't pretend to know anything about what GOG does, but PC games are all built for x86 hardware - x86 has been around for. SNES hardware was unique to SNES, wasn't it?
Everybody knows new 3ds has more power and needs it for certain games, peeps are mad because it didn't have the power in the first place i mean hell Nintendo didn't even do anything to the xl except supersize it even when peeps were calling for a second analogue and more power. Nintendo are clearly riding on nostalgia and old gimmicks right now, if they had any respect for og supporters after screwing up their designs they would create a compilation cartridge just like nes classics so that the whole 3ds community can play, But no, This is Nintendo in 2016 a sinking ship of bad ideas, They may as well go mobile.
@RupeeClock The N3DS can't handle those games.
How do I know? Because the Wii U can't handle them either (they exist on Wii U, but have frame rate drops so bad that some sections are unplayable. X2 especially), and if a more powerful system can't, the N3DS has no chance.
Oh, if Nintendo decide to localize SNES Fire Emblem... that will be freaking awesome!
It makes more business sense to have it run on the old 3ds if they could. They even makes Pokémon Black and White 2 for the DS because it makes more business sense then.
New Hardware is a one time financial games, whereas each VC SNES is a recurring $7.99. And given the amount of quality SNES games out there, it quickly adds up. It's like printing money.
So most probably, they will have to tweak each game for it to run on the old 3ds. Whereas it's just a replace-the-rom thing for the New 3ds with its more powerful processor. Much quicker and guaranteed flawless emulation.
Here's hoping Konami will release both Castlevanias, Contra, and Axelay soon.
And maybe we can expect a Megaman Legacy Collection 2 from Capcom sometime in the future.
I do hope all of these get localized and they also release Final Fight 3. I'll get Super Castlevania IV day one since it's one of my favorite Castlevania games and I want it with me at all times! I seriously wish more third party games will be released since the SNES had such a sweet huge library of games. It has begun!
Really never thought I'd see the day this happened. I will buy them all. Street Fighter and Mega Man X games are what I'm most excited about. If I didn't already have my MH4U New 3DS XL, this would be the only reason I need to upgrade. Best news in years .
@Priceless_Spork Sorry to see you go. Always remember, NoScript and anti-trackers like Ghostery (for now) are your friends in the spooky modern world of social media surveillance... You knew there are trackers and advertising scripts running on Nintendo Life too, right? I have had them blocked for a while now...
@mjc0961 Then why can the original Wii handle them no problem? Nintendo just sucks at making emulators work on a consistent basis, that's all there is to it. They screwed up big time with the Wii U version of VC, after doing a great job with the Wii VC. Hopefully, better luck next time with NX...
@gcunit The thing about x86 is that each software creation is tied to it's generation of operating systems they were meant to play on. If you try running DOS games today, it's not going to work. Even if you use DOSBox, you still need to know what you're doing. Win95 games aren't going to work today, either. It might not even work with compatibility mode, you may need some technical wizardry to solve the problem, since a lot of those games normally only work on older 32 bit operating systems like WinXP. Even straight virtualization of older operating systems doesn't always solve compatibility problems. Especially with Windows 10, there are an increasing amount of incompatibility problems to solve.
In this regard, even if they're all games based on x86, they're still prone to having problems getting them running on newer hardware. They're ultimately no less difficult to get running on modern hardware than retro console games on modern systems. The process is different, of course, but it's still a lot of work. Yet GOG gets it done, despite being a relatively small company, in addition to dealing with legal entanglements for years and succeeding. To put it simply, GOG does what Nintendon't for retro games in their particular hemisphere.
Nintendo are the only ones who know their own proprietary hardware, and they have a substantive legal department. They've succeeded with developing proper emulators on the Wii, so they've proven that even with weak hardware, they are capable of emulating their older games without many hiccups. Again, with 99%+ accuracy, no one is realistically aiming for 100% accuracy, because that's too difficult. Their legal department has a long history of toppling giant problems, too, dating back to beating Universal Studios head on to protect Donkey Kong.
The O3DS isn't that much weaker than the Wii, in fact, it has more RAM and an extra CPU core. (Although those cores are weaker than the Wii's one core.) It may have been difficult, but not impossible. 3DS is just simply not a priority for Nintendo anymore, NX and mobile is.
@sillygostly Emulating SNES games is not the same as creating new games that an older version of hardware simply can't handle. Poor argument...
And how are you so certain of your claims?
@Chunky_Droid It kind of feels to me that you're arguing just for the sake of arguing with Tasuki. Just let people vent if they want, who cares if they're right or wrong.
So ill be one to be greedy and say gjve me genealogy of the holy war and mystery of the emblem dont you understand Nintendo I gotta catch em all...wrong franchise? I dont care moar fire emblem also roys game while were on the subject I need that as well illnget a doctor's note if necessary
Is there any reason to believe Nintendo will be more active in expanding the VC catalogue for SNES than it has been for other legacy platforms?
I really don't think so ...
Has there been any indication about cross-buy or even transfering SNES VC games from the WiiU? Not to my knowledge ...
Nintendo has mastered the art of giving something that should by all accounts be pretty awesome a very bitter taste to go with.
All of this is particularly ... well, curious, considering that the 3DS is obviously getting very, very close to the end of it's lifecycle. I would be surprised tbh if it would not see a replacement within the year, possibly including the abandonment of the (N)3DS's VC altogether. It sounds harsh yeah, but I absolutely do not believe a development like this is out of the question. Nintendo seems to be struggling with supporting VC as it is, I doubt they will bother with supporting the 3DS, the N3DS, the WiiU VC as it is, and with the NX looming (however that will turn out in detail). Maybe the N3DS and SNES games will see support into 2017, seeing as they are pretty fresh, but even that is doubtful.
I mean how about Wii and NDS games on the WiiU? That was cool in theory, but Nintendo did not really back that play with content either ... They have less than zero credibility with me regarding anything "VC". It's sad but true =(
"hopefully the positive performance of Fire Emblem Fates in the West will encourage Nintendo to bring these SNES entries to the global market, but we're not holding our breath."
This made me smile, choke up and then laugh ^^
I have had the same 3ds since june 2011, and I've heavily supported their virtual console on the wii, the 3ds and the wii u.
I find it insulting that nintendo would push the "new 3ds" at us in this way. I also believe that they are feeding us most of the same vc games over and over. When I brought my wii's data to my wii u, I mostly sucked it up with the discounted prices on the games I've already bought (in most cases for a third time, 1st. physical copy 2nd. wii's vc, and then once more 3rd. on wii u's.)
But not only does nintendo tell me I can not purchase these games unless I buy a "new 3ds", they don't even have the curtesy to offer them at a discounted price.
I don't mind paying full price for new vc games because I find it refreshing. But for example, konami's line up = games that are already on wii vc & wii u vc.
Long story short, I probably would have gone along with this, but nintendo, that was a unnecessarily slimy thing to do 😒
Wow, somehow this comment section has gotten even more hilarious. Earlier, I proposed a criterion to everyone arguing for SNES VC on O3DS, and so far, no one has responded, and no one in the comments has provided evidence to satisfy it.
All I have seen in the comments since that proposal has been arguments about how the O3DS CAN emulate SNES games (with no proof to back up that claim) and that Nintendo is being greedy, among other logic arguments. Too bad none of those arguments hold water.
So, once again, I will state the one thing that needs to be proven in order for this discussion to end: If anyone can provide evidence that the O3DS can run SNES VC at Nintendo quality emulation standards, then your side automatically wins.
That's all there is to it, and nothing else. At this point, evidence is everything. There is no reason to make additional arguments.
@Mario-Man-Child It's really not surprising they have a habit with screwing their loyal customers especially with the 3DS. Remember the price cut at the beginning of its life cycle. Honestly the only way Nintendo can make this up to me is if they give original 3DS owners the SNES games, but they won't cause it means they won't get people to buy the N3DS.
Bring all out more the merrier.
@Yoshi I find that people say it's a quality issue with Nintendo not bringing out SNES VC games to older 3DS. They obviously weren't worried about the quality of VC games on the Wii U. Every NES game that I have on the Wii U suffers from some kind of problem whether it's sound, graphics or both. They are just claiming it's a quality thing so they can sell more N3DS period. It has nothing to do with quality.
@Yoshi Welcome to the grand confluence of personal entitlement and technological ignorance.
Hey everyone, let's stop the arguing, I don't want to start deleting the comments here
@Tasuki I will concede that the emulation quality on Wii U leaves much to be desired. However, given Nintendo's financial state, would it be more beneficial to make the SNES VC library available to all 3DS owners, or to add a "selling point" by making it exclusive to New 3DS? Let's be honest here: while adding SNES VC to New 3DS may be a tipping point for some buyers, how many people will truly buy a New 3DS for the sole reason that it has SNES VC? From my layman's perspective, it would be much more beneficial to add SNES VC to all 3DS models. The move would bring in more revenue. Why, then, would Nintendo make SNES VC exclusive to New 3DS? Obviously, it's not an issue of opportunity cost, so the issue must lie somewhere else. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that making SNES VC exclusive to New 3DS is not Nintendo's motive to sell more hardware, but rather, a workaround to make SNES VC available in the first place, albeit to a much smaller audience.
By the way, I did not mean for that paragraph to go on that long. Sorry.
@kirbygirl To be fair, I did say earlier that at this point, evidence is everything, so you're right.
But at the same time, this is the internet, where nonsensical statements and name calling are the only methods to win an argument.
MegaMan X2 / X3 ? Really ? Huh, two of the "problem child" ROMs. Color me impressed ^^ But to this day, Yoshis Island seems to be the major headache when it comes to getting to run at "distributable / commercial quality"-
Also, it still baffles me that people still have no clue what "stress" emulation can cause to a system, especially when we are talking about commercial grade emulation.
The SNES is no easy system to emulate, due to many cartridge based chip extensions. Especially if youre going with a game-by-game solution, which means every game need individual caretaking.
To put it in comparison: To run a perfect emulation of SUper Mario World, one of the most cooki cutter SNES ROMs, it requires a 3Ghz multi core processor and all of its attention.
That said, SMW doesnt use any of the SNES special chips, modes or other gimmiks, Its as basic as it gets.
Just because they are old, 16bit games does not mean, by any stretch of the immagination, that emulating them to a commercial grade is an easy feet. Especially not on an underpowered handheld.
And to all those folks arguing that "the DS could run SNES emulators too".Yes, it could. An all purpose emulator with ROMs heavily varying in accuracy.
Wrong timing, graphical issues, frame drops, latencys, stutters, missing effects etc.
All stuff you can very well live with, when youre not paying a single buck for it, not so much for 8-10 bucks a pop.
@Yoshi In this society you would be surprised on how many people would run out and buy a N3DS just for that. In this day and age people have to have the latest things whether it's the newest technology or car or clothing or whatever. Yeah it would make sense that Nintendo would put them on the older 3DS but then again who says businessmen are logical.
"I proposed a criterion to everyone arguing for SNES VC on O3DS, and so far, no one has responded, and no one in the comments has provided evidence to satisfy it"
That's because they don't have to satisfy it. For reasons that should be pretty obvious by now.
@electrolite77 They "don't" have to satisfy it, or they "can't" satisfy it?
Please enlighten me as to how they don't have to satisfy it, considering that a number of people have shown that SNES VC running on O3DS is far from an optimal experience.
@gcunit I know for a fact the regular 3DS can run SNES games because a ton of SNES games were ported to GameBoy Advance. It's clearly a marketing strategy to sell more "NEW" 3DS units. I won't buy it because to me there's not enough of a leap. That nub should've been a thumb stick. Cmon! Who's idea what's that?!
@Yoshi By evidence, do you mean an in depth criteria that most if not everyone here would be incapable of answering? Or just general relative technical aspects? Because I have referred multiple times that O3DS, while slightly weaker than the Wii, has more RAM, as well as 2 cores in it's CPU instead of 1 core, although those 2 cores are weaker than the Wii's 1. And of course, the Wii has been demonstrated as an excellent emulation console, despite it's weaknesses.
I believe you are probably not satisfied with the earlier discourse that tinkering with a myriad of settings on modded PSP's produce anywhere between great results and broken results, as evidence that even weaker hardware than the 3DS has already demonstrably produced positive results under the right circumstances. The question, then, is whether the O3DS' software architecture can support a SNES emulator, not whether the raw specs of the hardware can handle it. Even if you don't accept that the PSP, under the correct circumstances and choice of settings, can run most if not all SNES games fairly well, since it does not live up to "Nintendo's standards", the possibility is still answered with fairly positive results.
I think what people want to see is a demonstration that the O3DS' software architecture is absolutely unfriendly to emulation. That's not something that anyone here can provide you, though. It's a loaded request to ask that detailed proof be provided to you here. You can ask experienced modders if you want a clearly laid out technical answer, but only Nintendo's engineers know all the answers.
As far as this site is concerned, it is all we can do to satisfy you to relay our experiences. For comparison's sake, though, here is the PSP Go specs vs. 3DS XL specs:
Clearly, as far as raw hardware specs are concerned, if the PSP can handle SNES emulation at any workable level, surely the O3DS can. The question now, again, is whether the software architecture can accept emulation.
@kirbygirl Any comment on my reply to you earlier?
@Einherjar Right, but like I said to kirbygirl earlier, that's talking about 100% perfect emulation which requires higher specs. Pretty much no one is realistically trying to commercially achieve that. If someone is satisfied with 99% or even 99.99% accuracy in emulation (which even Nintendo is satisfied with), then even the now weak 729 MHz CPU of the Wii sufficed without hiccups for SNES emulation. That's for both official and unofficial cases of emulation.
Dont have to. You're asking for something that is impossible whether it exists or not. Without access to what knowledge and ability Nintendo have and what they have done behind closed doors, nobody can prove or-notably-disprove whether it is possible.
What we do know is what amateur coders without insider knowledge have done on similar and lesser hardware and we can extrapolate from there. The reason your request got ignored is because it was an attempt to shut down discussion by requiring something that is obviously impossible for the discussion to continue.
@PlywoodStick Not really. It didn't make much sense, to be honest. As I already explained to another poster, there's a reason why Nintendo threw in those GBA games as freebies for Ambassadors and never sold them on the eShop. It's actually the problems they had making those full-functioning VC titles that prompted them to wait for more powerful hardware before they released SNES games as 3DS VC. If you can understand that, you should be able to understand that running SNES games on the 3DS VC posed significant technical challenges. If you'd read some of the links I'd posted earlier in this thread, maybe you'd have a better understanding of the nature of those challenges.
If Nintendo could sell these SNES VC games on all models with a level of quality in the emulation that they were comfortable with, I'm sure they would prefer to do so. They'd make a lot more money that way. Some people around here seem to assume that Nintendo has some kind of sinister agenda of exclusion that just doesn't make any sense from a business perspective. It's simply ludicrous.
@kirbygirl I did read them, and my reply was in direct response to those links. Those people are demonstrating what it takes to achieve 100% perfect emulation. No one is commercially trying to achieve that, not even Nintendo. They're satisfied with 99.99% accuracy, or in the case of the Ambassador offerings, even just 99% accuracy, if that. I don't think anyone is asking for perfect emulation, either. People just want something that works, not something that is a technical marvel. Nintendo already achieved this with the Wii, even with it's now weak 729 MHz CPU. It didn't need 3 GHz to run 99%-99.99% accurately, or maybe 90% accurately in the worst cases.
As for the worries that this is a calculated business plan to bolster N3DS sales, I cannot speak for that. I wouldn't use that idea as evidence. I would lean towards Nintendo simply shifting their focus to NX and mobile, so they're not interested in pushing the boundaries of what the 3DS is capable of anymore. They're just taking the most easily workable path until the next generation, whatever the details of that may be.
@PlywoodStick The point is that Nintendo clearly wasn't satisfied with the accuracy that was possible on the OG 3DS. Otherwise they could have easily thrown those GBA games up on the eShop for people to purchase and made money off of them.
The SNES games arguably pose even greater challenges in this regard.
@electrolite77 @PlywoodStick I know that information is not accessible to most everyone. I wasn't asking for a perfect, working emulator on O3DS, and I am well aware of the rules on this website. I was asking for evidence pointing towards the possibility that O3DS can run SNES VC. I am by no means attempting to shut down discussion, but when the comments have essentially run into a stalemate, I tried to move the discussion along by calling for proof.
To summarize, on the side advocating for SNES on O3DS, a large majority have resorted to petty arguments (Nintendo is being greedy, trying to sell more N3DS units, etc.), and there's a very small minority that have provided actual arguments, pointing towards other computers and emulators that "work".
On the other hand, the side defending Nintendo's decision to make SNES VC exclusive to N3DS have provided arguments pointing towards how poor the performance is on those emulators and that under clocking the N3DS to O3DS levels shows the performance is far from optimal as well.
I am not expecting perfection. But I am asking for new arguments to this discussion. Either someone provides a unique contention, or I am done with this tête-á-tête.
@kirbygirl So basically, the conclusion there was that Nintendo already demonstrated how to simulate GBA games, even if it wasn't 99% accurate emulation. They could have done that for more games, but decided not to, because they made the conscious decision that they wanted 99% or better accuracy to their particular specifications, any less was not good enough.
Okay... But like the article said, people probably would have bought them anyways. As long as it worked, many people would have bought them. Few people absolutely look for technical marvel in what they're buying, a working product would have been satisfactory. Not to mention, Nintendo could have updated that later. They already did that with the NES Ambassador titles. They were given out in the same incomplete form as the GBA titles, then were updated later to reflect their particular standards.
The fact remains that they didn't really try to make that work for the GBA titles, no matter what the reason is behind it. What follows is that the same principle may (or may not, who knows) have been applied to SNES titles.
@PlywoodStick No, they clearly did try to make it work and they were not satisfied with what was possible with that hardware.
@Yoshi Well, like electrolite77 said, what you're asking for is literally impossible for anyone here to provide. You'll have to ask someone who knows the software/firmware architecture of the 3DS inside and out. Which means either asking experienced modders/hackers or asking Nintendo's engineers.
@kirbygirl They clearly did? How do we know that?
As for the raw hardware, the New 3DS got a boost of two extra ARM11 268 MHz cores to make it quad core, two extra VFPv2 co-processors for a total of four co-processors, doubled FCRAM to 256 MB, and almost doubled dedicated video RAM from 6 MB to 10 MB. So the New 3DS doesn't use more powerful hardware, it just adds more of what the O3DS already uses.
(Keep in mind that the PSP, with a single core 333 MHz CPU, 64 MB system RAM, and 2 MB video RAM, with no fancy co-processors to offset resources spent, was capable of emulating SNES titles at a working level under the right conditions, even with only almost half of the O3DS' raw specs.)
This gives more leverage to work with, but does the hardware truly need to make use of extra cores, co-processors, system RAM, and video RAM to emulate (or simulate, for that matter) SNES titles? Or is there an inconsistency in the software/firmware of the system that prevents resources from being dedicated efficiently towards emulation or simulation? This is the real question which would have to be answered.
And again, as the article you linked stated, it's not necessarily the case that it would have been totally impossible to pull off, but rather that Nintendo consciously chose not to provide the games in the same state at the Ambassador titles, regardless of whether they could have been updated later.
@PlywoodStick You have to take a systems OS into account though. Unlike the Wii, the 3DS has a multi tasking OS, meaning, that it needs enough recources left to put a game into suspension and still be able to run ist main shell and / or other "overlay applications" like MiiVerse and such.
Like @kirbygirl said, the ambassador games showed that it is possible to run GBA games, but that they were not able to meet their QA standards to sell them.
Meaning: Multi tasking, OS access, VC features etc.
The GBA games ran on leftover GBA code from the 3DSs DS mode, pretty much like the WiiUs Wii mode.
Thus, you had no access to the 3DSs OS while running those.
But these games still ran "natively", thus making emulation much more easier.
SNES on the other hand have to use emulation.
And there is no way that we will achive 100% emulation on a dedicated gaming system anytime soon. The recourses just arent there and thats not what they are shooting for here either.
Commercial grade emulation basically means, that a game has to run at full speed all the time, no stuttering, no issues, no bugs.
You have to make compromises. Frametime wont be perfect, but the average user wont even notice. Ask a good Speedrunner how they feel about emulation and you get the idea
But, say, you play a game that always slows to a crawl at a certain stage. For a free emulator, its something you just push through, but thats not something you sell.
And Nintendo is usually one of the few major companys that care about a products functionality. Bugs always happen, but patches in Nintendo games are actually rather rare.
@Einherjar True, and 1 core of the 3DS CPU is dedicated towards maintaining the OS. (Which updates like Miiverse put a strain upon.) It could be possible that the only way for Nintendo to make SNES titles available on O3DS was to sell them in the same state as the Ambassador titles, since that could suspend the OS temporarily to dedicate both cores towards emulation/simulation. Nintendo opted not to go with that.
It still makes me wonder though, if that could be updated to function as normal VC titles do, since it worked for NES titles. Maybe the features planned then added through updates, such as Miiverse, made that impossible over time due to the added resources needed to maintain them, who knows... Yet it still begs the question of whether or not that was truly possible. Only modders and hackers will provide the public that answer, eventually.
@PlywoodStick That, or simple cost/worth issues.
NES is actually rather "easy" to run. Easy in a "playable" sense. The timing is extremely iffy actually, but nothing the general audience would really notice.
If it would work suspending the entire OS i dont know.
Like i said, technically, the GBA games run "natively" on the DS side of the system.
But more CPU power would do quite a lot. Just look at the seemingly little differences in hardware between the 3DS and N3DS and the pretty drastic differences it makes in running games like Smash.
So yeah, it could work. If it ever happens is up to Nintendo and them being willing to go the extra mile and cut QA corners.
Wasn't trying to argue for the sake of arguing, just trying to add actual logic to those who decide not to use it. At least you're thinking about the issue. I just don't like it when people get all entitled about it without any evidence to back up their claims. I tried letting someone know why their claim was wrong, obviously he wants to live his fantasy of having large electronics companies having a personal vendetta against him so I'm letting it go.
If anyone else read my comments and figured at least I was providing some logic to the argument and decided that was a viable reason enough for SNES VC to not appear on o3DS, then I'm happy. I don't need to provide any more than I have, which is far more than what the conspiracy theorists have provided.
Just sick and tired of "armchair experts" is all. This argument has been going on ever since the GBA came out on Wii U and everyone cried about that, and I was arguing way back then lol.
Not starting an argument with you, but what problems are you having with NES VC on Wii U? I have Balloon Fight, Kid Icarus, Zelda, Punch-Out!!, Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Kirby's Dream Land among others without finding any issues as yet?
How old is your receiver?
I have my Wii U hooked up directly to my tv via HDMI. It's a launch Wii U Black Model. On The Legend of Zelda the sound Constantly goes up and down as if some one is lowering and turning up the tv volume. Usually when a sound effect plays i.e. when the sword makes its shooting sound the music and sound effects go really low almost to nonexistent. I know it's not my speakers or the hook ups cause no other Wii U games have that problem. MK8 is fine, Smash is fine all other Eshop games are fine only NES VC games. All other systems work fine too the PS4, my OUYA. Etc. I have tried deleting and redownloading and the same problem which leads me to think it's an Emulation problem. Heck I have NES VC games on a Wii and when I hook it up to that tv I don't get that problem.
I have heard that it can be an issue with the combination of speakers and HDMI outputs that cause issues with NES style sound. The reason they seem to work on Wii is due to using the older style cables that processed those sounds naturally. That'd make sense given that everything else seems to work for you.
Have you asked around to see if there are people who don't have that issue on NES VC in the States, see what their setups are like.
Wait a sec...Didn't dragonball z extreme boutoden came with a bonus port of dbz boutoden 2 for snes on old 3ds?Seems to me like this is just to see if the N3DS sells get better.
@startropicike the music was changed due to the yamamoto plagirism dbz incidents
@startropicike They can port snes games its just that they are being lazy,I love nintendo but this is just a stupid move.
That was ported to work on the 3DS, it's a port, not a ROM.
@Chunky_Droid Thats why I said port,I know that but come on they can port other snes games.Even make them 3d classics but they are going the easy way.
I have a N3DS but I doubt I'll be buying any of these. I have every single game Nintendo had covered in the Direct on Wii U and don't feel like rebuying. Well maybe Earthbound. But can't we get a cross buy discount of some kind? A $2 upgrade would be a decent option in my opinion.
@Chunky_Droid I asked here a few times, but no one seemed to help. It's really not a huge deal, I just don't use the Wii U VC hence why I haven't transfered any of my stuff from the Wii. I don't have a set up just the speakers built into the TV so if it is something to do with that, I have no way of fixing it. Not to start a fight but this is why I find it hard to believe it's a quality issue with the 3DS, they obviously didn't worry about it with the Wii U.
Emulation is different to simply running a game. The machine has to run its own operating system and then basically run a super nintendo in the background. Its not like putting a mario world cartridge in a 3ds. I heard that the gba ambassador games were able to run as they simply used the the GBA part of the old DS PICA CPU in the 3ds. I don't know how it all works, but there is a lot more to emulation then most people think.
@Tasuki Oh I'm not getting that you want a fight out of that at all
It's just what I've heard technical issues wise. If it is indeed outside speaker/HDMI issues then Nintendo can't really be faulted for that as they don't have access to everything.
However if it is indeed a quality issue then sure Nintendo would be to blame. Though quality wise I think it's easier for them to replicate the graphics and gameplay maintaining its smoothness compared to audio. I've seen some who have this issue and some who are running their games perfectly fine from all regions (I did some research so I could help, which I am sure you have as well since it's happening to you!).
As it seems to be really hit and miss I'd say it's a 3rd party HDMI/Speaker combination causing the issues. You COULD try changing the HDMI cord and seeing if a higher quality one works at all but shrugs, other than seeing if it works on a friend's or family member's TV I can't help beyond that sorry!
@Chunky_Droid It's ok, I appreciate the help. It could be a cord issue, speaker issue or some other underline issue all together. Honestly I am not that worried about it as between the Wii, as well as the original consoles themselves I have ways to play older games. Most of the Wii U VC games I got for free from Club Nintendo anyway. I just use the Wii U for non VC games, as all other games play just fine.
@Tasuki Cool beans
The standard 3ds emulated the Sega Genesis/Megadrive pretty fine and in 3D to boot. So I take the "New 3DS only" apologists' comments with pinch of salt. Or two.
I own a n3DS and would totally be into this if the pricing wasn't crazy and the unified Nintendo account actually meant I didn't have to pay 2 (3) times for titles I already bought on the Wii and then on the WiiU Virtual Console (not to mention the original cartridge most of the times). These titles are classics so it's pretty normal that people are excited to be able to play them in a way that is comfortable now, instead of going through the inconveniences and hurdles of connecting their consoles of yore to their current day tv sets. But once they paid for the digitalised form of a game once, or even twice, it should be enough...
At this point my relationship with Nintendo on stuff like this is the one of a wife trapped in an abusive marriage by her deeply rooted affection for her own persecutor.
And I say enough is enough.
@Kicked2TheKirb I don't think you even know how to use the phrase "I know for a fact" properly, let alone the difference between porting a game and emulating a game running on a particular system. Read more, comment less, until you know what you're doing, mkay?
@PlywoodStick But according to homebrew developers. PSP still has choppy sound, while the o3DS does it almost flawlessly.
At least you guys have Super Mario RPG, NOA screwed us over with that one
@FullbringIchigo It doesn't sound like a plan to get people to buy a New 3DS it IS the plan. They have to push these somehow with their "new" "how to sell something without marketing" idea.
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