Earlier this year we told you about the return of Super Mario Bros. Z, a pixel-based animation project that blends Mario, Sonic and Dragon Ball Z influences together in one chaotic storyline. Its creator and animator Mark Haynes (AKA: Alvin-Earthworm), launched a Patreon page to support the venture.
That page proved popular, quickly amassing funds of over $5000 per episode, though in our original article we questioned how a "non-profit fan crossover movie project" could legitimately seek patronage. On top of that, of course, we have the old chestnut of copyright.
It seems Nintendo has stepped in and shut that page down, and Haynes took to Twitter to clarify that he's had to launch a new campaign; we've left out the one that simply says "Because **** Nintendo".
That original Patreon page was specifically tied to the Super Mario Bros. Z series, with lengthy descriptions including references to all of the key characters. The new page plays it straight, with no references to these characters; as it stands there's no way to tie its funding to copyrighted characters, and it's already gone past $900 in a small amount of time. It's evident that Haynes' eager followers have simply transferred their backing, though the plain page will find it much harder to attract any passing patrons on the site.
It's a tricky area of debate. Once a fan project actually makes a profit for the creator, it becomes legally difficult to justify using the IP of companies like Nintendo without seeking approval and paying for the privilege. At present there's nothing wrong with Haynes' new Patreon page, but the moment it gets tied to Super Mario Bros. Z (assuming that's the plan) it may get taken down again.
It'd be a shame if this series falls over on copyright infringement grounds, yet if it continues to seek unlicensed profit it seems inevitable.
"we've left out the one that simply says "Because **** Nintendo"."
Kind defeats the purpose if you just quote it, eh?
I can't see this going anywhere. Sounds like he's got his hands tied, unless enough new fans catch on without Nintendo noticing. But he's entering dangerous territory by asking for money. Doesn't seem non-profit to me...
Sounds crap. Also, the guy seems to have quite the sense of entitlement to profit from creations that aren't his.
He's unemployed, and plans to make a living off of Nintendo's characters, then questions why Nintendo closed down his Patreon page? Makes perfect sense.
I'm SICKOVIT, NINTENDO!!! First, you stop listening to the fans! THEN, when the fans make something awesome, YOU TAKE IT DOWN!! I'm getting REALLY tired of your crap, Nintendo!!
I don't see the issue, what he's doing is strictly illegal. Just because it's popular doesn't give him the right to use someones work to make money. Just needs to get a real job.
Yeah, think you've covered it: No beef if it's not for profit, but obviously needs to go if it's making any. And it seems like it might be.
Dammit Ninty, I've been waiting for a new development on the SMBZ storyline ever since the first series was discontinued. I know Mark is being funded by fans this time around, but I'd like to see at least this series' conclusion before I die of old age.
Not sure if serious or being sarcastic.
Wow everyone instantly jumps to Nintendo's defense but we're not fanboys oh okay
Dangit. That explains why there wasn't a new episode for around a month.
@jedisquidward The thing is Nintendo is completely within their rights to take this project down because it uses their IP to make money. Nintendo isn't the only company that would defend their IP in this manner; Disney is far more protective of their IP.
Watching that embedded episode now and the guy is very talented.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Add Daisy to the series, then we'll talk!
I wish Nintendo would just hire the guy to make a small animated-series (assuming that they keep the series as is without censorship). However they would have to get SEGA in on it too.
All I can really say is that I'm not in any way shocked by this. I'll admit that the quality of what I saw in the embedded video is higher than I expected, but anyone hoping to make money off using Nintendo's characters/sprites/sound effects, even in a transformative capacity, really ought to know better. I'm torn over how I feel about it, since I can see both sides of the debate, but anyone hoping to make money off of this has to know something like this is coming.
@allav866 He's not trying to make a living off of smbz
Except we will say the same thing even this is Sony, Microsoft or Disney. You're the one jumping into conclusions because Nintendo.
The hell he isn't! He said so himself: he's unemployed, and having a job is the reason he discontinued the series before he decided to use patreon.
@MrPuzzlez Nintendo is full in their rights to stop someone who uses their copyrighted materials, at the end of the Nintendo games there is a mention of all the content in the game, sprites, and what not is property of Nintendo. Now If I were him I would reach out to Nintendo and have him do a content sharing agreement that Nintendo has with some Youtubers.
That sucks. I had a feeling this would happen when I learned he received funding for the episodes, but I hoped this wouldn't become the case. I honestly learned a lot about how to use Flash back in the day by downloading and inspecting his own videos. He's definitely talented, and making these videos takes a lot of time. Hopefully he'll get something worked out so he can continue the series.
The guy is talented, but he took the easy way by using pre-established characters to get noticed. He's got enough of a following that he could use his own characters and still make a few bucks from fans. It will take a while, but if you want to run a business that's how it goes.
And then one day when his work gets popular he can force legal action on people who are trying to ride the coat tails of his own characters.
He needs to quit while he's ahead. All he's going to do is find himself in a courtroom with Nintendo.
I haven't much sympathy for them. They should have known this would happen, because it violates copyright, and they have been given real money for it, so are profiting from other people's work (according to the copyright law). They should have put their resources into something original, rather than trying to get recognition because they used Nintendo characters (a bit harsh).
I'm pretty sure Super Mario Bros Z does not reflect Mario's normal IP specifications. I haven't watched it, but how true to the characters is he being in all honesty.
I can totally understand Nintendo not wanting someone to profit off of their characters, especially when they may not be respecting the integrity of the characters in the first place.
Yeah, **** Nintendo for not allowing him to use their characters and sprites without permission to make a profit.
@Smash_kirby My thing is, I know it's their IP, I know it's their right, but I PROMISE you, other people are taking donations and doing something in the neighborhood of this. It really struck a chord with me because I've been following this series ever since almost a decade ago on Newgrounds and have loved this series ever since. Plus, doing cool stuff like this cost a LOT of time, effort, resources, as well as finances.
I know it shouldn't be excused for what he did, but dude. Being a graphic artist is brutal when you have all of these cool ideas, but no type of resources or help...
As I recall Nintendo are a-okay with fan projects which are fair use, it's when you try to turn a profit from it.
It's questionable if Patreon counts as a product or not though. Alvin Earthworm could or might be producing these episodes regardless of whether or not his tip jar got filled. It's not like a Kickstarter where he is fulfilling a backer reward either.
Its a well known fact that attempting to profit off an IP without the official consent of the creators is pretty much asking for trouble the guy should have known what he was getting into
It's times like this i don't mind saying that Nintendo should piss off.
I love them but i don't love them THAT much.
Man's gotta eat and pay bills and all he wants to do is animation with some characters he loves.
I guess depending on IF he mentions what he's working on specifically, they can't do anything.
It's similar to if i was doing tons of art work based on video games and started a patreon so i could keep making all that art and make my bills at the same time.
It's time's like this i feel Nintendo needs to learn to reach out to these folks doing these works.
Wait, shouldn't this go under the "parody" act?
His patreon support is already over $1000 again. So sad how there's people defending and enabling IP thieves like him. I know it's always easier to take the little guy's side over the big company, but he's so clearly in the wrong here, just like the Pokemon bar owner from a couple of months ago.
Want to make money? Use your own characters. Once they get famous, make a game and publish it on Wii U. Bam.
Well yeah, what did he expect?
I don't see any problems in Nintendo's action. If someone is trying to make some money by using Nintendo's characters, Nintendo has all the right to stop this 'someone'.
Creator of the Super Mario Bros. Z should use his own characters instead of someone elses property. If these characters are not popular enough, it's completely his/her own fault.
@MrPuzzlez He can reach out to Nintendo and work something out with them. Nintendo seems more open to fan works but there has to be communication.
@Smash_kirby Yeah, I will definitely give you that. I just don't want to see another dream quelled by another corporation.
@allav866 precisely he doesn't own any of the IP's he is trying to use so he has no right to moan about it being taken down
@MrPuzzlez only if it non-profit and as he is asking for money it isn't
@MrPuzzlez Grow up, kid. If this guy was making it without asking for money Nintendo wouldn't have cared.
Nintendo has the right to protect their property. Why should some lazy sap be able to profit off of someone else's property? There are thousands of people out there who hold steady jobs, and make do fanfiction projects on the side.
Anyone who is defending this guy's actions and condemning Nintendo for theirs are completely blind to copyright law. Regardless of whether or not you think his videos are cool and want them to continue, it is strictly illegal to profit off of other's intellectual property. There's no gray area here. Mark Haynes is clearly in the wrong, and acting like a butthurt child.
That being said, he's playing it smart on his new Patreon by not mentioning what the funds are actually going to (even though it's extremely clear due to the trail of breadcrumbs he has left behind). Either way, talented as he might be, I will not be supporting him because I don't give my money to butthurt children.
Heh, I love the series. If rebooted Episode 1 is to say anything.
But ya, Talk to Nintendo about how the copyright works and come to an agreement ...or put up a patreon without saying how it's going to be funded, that works too i guess.
Because copyright is an un-fun,time wasting manner, let me tell ya. Lucky Alvin it's just his patreon.
I love Super Mario Bros. Z, but it is not hard to see why his use of Patreon falls into a negative legal area. While it's true that he uses it just to fund himself making these animations without needing a job on the side, it still means he's making money off of Nintendo's (and SEGA's) IP directly in a way I suspect is beyond fair-use. I mean, not only is he using the characters of the series he portrays, but even much of their sprites, music, and sound effects ripped straight from the source. It's like taking somebody else's art, printing it on a t-shirt, and requiring people pay for it- even if a lot of the graphics are his own work. Maybe he'll have better success now that his new Patreon doesn't directly set off flags that "hey, I'm profiting off copyrighted work here" but I wouldn't be surprised if it is taken down again. He'd be better off trying to make money through other methods, like fair-use merchandise or a less obstructive part time job.
Unfortunately, Nintendo is within their rights to shut down his Patreon. However, he can still continue making SMBZ and I'm sure Nintendo won't interfere with his videos on YouTube (hopefully).
I'm mainly worried that if he keeps trying to raise money through Patreon, even without Nintendo's IP's being mentioned, Nintendo could try to take down his videos, which I'm sure many people wouldn't want that to happen (including the creator).
Also, he really needs to find a part-time job that gives him enough free time & money to make SMBZ, or he could try making an original series and fund that in order to have enough money for SMBZ (which is like a technical workaround, but is just as difficult as the first, if not more).
Sooo...he's not only making money off other people's IP, but admitting that he's plagiarising because his own IPs aren't popular? This wasn't some fan game done for the love that ran afoul of Nintendo having to contest their IP. Nor was it even some fishy clone property with Mario-esque characters. This guy is a total punk, and not shutting him down would set a terrible precedent.
Thing is, people are saying he should talk to Nintendo to work something out, which would be the wise thing to do but... They shut him down (which they were legally entitled to do), he tweeted cussing them out and is still trying to do it (just twisting his methods). After this, I doubt they'll want to work with him here. He's already burning that bridge.
@LUIGITORNADO Kid?! Fool, I'm 34 years old! What, a guy can have a passion for good animation? Everybody's on here like he made a bad Mario clone. He didn't! He made a parody of something he really loves, but he went about it the wrong way. Now, if he could get under the wing of somebody like, say, Machinima(or however you spell it), he could probably still do those.
I think copyrights needs to limited again, but this doesn't give someone permission to break copyright for their own benefit. I find it ironic that Super Mario Brothers released 30 years ago. Under the original intent everything about that game would already be in the public domain. So while Nintendo would still have control of the Super Mario trademark (thus making this venture still unlikely), he could have used the sprite art without risk.
The current 70 years after author's death or 120/95 years for "works for hire" is a bit insane. This means that major parts of our culture since 1923 have effectively been held hostage and in some cases distorted and lost, whether or not anyone actually cares the material. Meanwhile, companies like Disney plunder the public domain.
I see no reason why people are defending the guy. Yeah, I like his videos, but he's using already established characters without any permission from the creators and wants profit from it.
It's always easier to use Nintendo characters and make fan fictions, but at a point where you're making money without any approval or permission from Nintendo? Not only it's wrong, but it's also illegal to do. The guy is plagiarzing and violating copyright law.
He's acting like he's the victim, but he's doing something stupid and idiotic by trying to make money from creations that doesn't belong to him.
Nintendo has no problem with fan fiction and creations, as long it's non profit.
@MrPuzzlez. They didn't take it down. They took the place where it gets it's funding down.
@manpretty I couldn't help but think of the Lion's King 's beginning song.
Amazed anyone is taking this thief's side.
If any of you created something, and then someone else started making money off of it, you'd be pissed off and sue their butts so you get what is rightfully yours.
Guy should be happy Nintendo isn't going to take him to court. Guess what dude, time to get a real job.
Maybe he could use SMBZ to gain attention for his for-profit original creations? At any rate, "**** Nintendo" hardly seems an appropriate thing for a "fan" to say.
This game seems like a overly stubborn, lazy moron. He broken Patreons rules has his page taken down and what does he do? Does the exact same thing again.
He also is unemployed so he tries to make money off someone elses IP? He even more or less says he is using someone else's characters because his aren't popular...what a piece of work...
The guy wouldn't even be getting 1/10 of his patreon donations if the series didn't use the characters and was instead for example "Amazing Lopezzio Bros X".
You can't just put Mario at the front and centre of something you're trying to make some money from. Whether its for profit or donation it's still "Give me money because Super Mario". That and the "F*** Nintendo" part shows that "the little guy" can sometimes be a scummy person with little respect for what they're using past their ability to make some money of it.
People should just stop doing fan-made stuff for nintendo, it's clearly never worth it at this point. Might as well just email yourself a C&D before you even start
@J_watch Or maybe I dunno, not try to profit off of a franchise you don't own?
@LunaticPandora People do that all the time with let's plays but nintendo managed to screw that up too lol
lol...people just don't get it huh?
Copyright is tricky. Sometimes fans make awesome things with copyrighted material that can fill a void that the company isn't doing. I mean, there's a lot of awesome stuff on etsy using nintendo's characters. It could be mutually beneficial, nintendo might not have the time or resources to make Splatoon clothes, or Zelda crochet figures, but someone on etsy does. They make money, and more nintendo merchandise is out there. Maybe i'll wear a cool splatoon shirt out and someone asks me about it, I'll tell them it's for this really cool game, it's advertising. It helps build up the fervor for nintendos games too. I can get more invested in a franchise when I know I can buy all sorts of merchandise associated with it.
But I get where the companies are coming from. Someone is profiting off their intellectual property and your characters are now out there in a way you didn't set out to create. What if someone uses a character in a way nintendo didn't support? Basically the characters could engage in activities nintendo doesn't condone, or make a political statement nintendo doesn't back. It doesn't just come down to profit, nintendo owns their characters and determines how theyre used and seen by consumers. If I gave out free shirts with mario supporting a presidential candidate, nintendo could issue cease and desist even though I'm not making money.
So all in all, it's tricky.
Rest in peace....SMBZ
....It was better than DBZ....
Is Nintendo deciding to become Youtube now?
Well I guess saying the name Mario is going to get your video taken down.
Next thing you know Nintendo decides to trademark the word Mario even though it's a pretty common name.
This is just a prediction.
So... what do you guys think of Let's Plays? If anything what this guy does requires more work than Let's Plays and this provides more original content than Let's Plays, but people seem to be more ok about Let's Plays than this. People that know me, probably know which side of the fence I am on, just wondering about others.
"WHY they dare to strike MUH dalla scam making machine? It's almost like I can't push muh ideas because lazy and steal their IP and make money off it! What's wrong with that? I want to make it muh full time job. Give monies NAU!!1111"
Him making 5 grand shows in what sad state humanity really is. And him believing patreon will last forever and staying uneployed for the amount of time it lasting being good idea shows how stupid he is. Especially with f-k N and using their property.
He should be happy he didn't get lawsuit up his butt.
@Yorumi I completely agree that we ought not to make 'snap judgements,' and admittedly this is the first I've heard of this guy. Having said that, I've watched the episode above and checked out his patreon page; he is being paid, currently $1300 per episode - that's a salary, to 'create' content that is entirely dependent on other peoples creativity . Presumably the amount that he will get per episode will continue to rise. His **** Nintendo comment also indicates that he has very little awareness of or appreciation for the intellectual property rights of others. It's pretty hard to be sympathetic.
Bad case of nobody being in the wrong here
Someone stealing my ips and profiting from it? I'd hack his nuts off!
@Yorumi that's an interesting point! My knowledge of the law is similarly limited so I've no idea if this could be classed as parody, definitely something I'd like to know a bit more about.
But i don't get it. How was he able to start the series in the first place if he needs money for it?
I also loved the series when i was watching it years ago but i thought he was just doing it in his freetime without much effort.
Kinda stupid, he wouldv been better off with just making a small parody with nintendo characters for 1 video (he was kinda popular with his 1st video) and then use that as promotion for his own work.
@allav866 technically this is just funding so he can produce it but the actual content is free so. But I may be wrong I dunno.
If nobody else had taken this down then Pateron themselves should have. There's a fine line between fair use fan art and homage, and profiting off other people's property. I hope Patreon take down his new page too.
This show is trash anyway.
Making a fan project is one thing, but making money for it is just getting more issues towards him & Nintendo, (and not a good way ether) imo while i do like Super Mario Bros Z. i can't blame Nintendo to try take this down, and trying get the money to make more episodes.
i see no reason why he should be taken down, not when artists profit from drawing pictures and charging for them. shouldn't he just claim it's for the time not the ip. that's the loop hole commissions fall under usually
@Zombo As someone who supports an artist through Patreon, I can tell you you basically pay the creator for each paid post (creation) he makes, and you're charged for each paid post at the end of each month. You can set the price you want to pay per post, but the creator can offer incentives for paying a certain amount.
Mark Haynes is making money for each episodes he makes, so this isn't a non-profit project like it was before, and he is making money from doing it.
Edit: I may be talking out my arse here, but I'm pretty sure flash animation costs nothing more than the cost of the animation program, editing software, and other such software, all of which Haynes already has, so it makes me wonder if he absolutely needs the funding to be able to make the show.
@J_watch I think People should do fan content of Nintendo stuff but only if they're doing it because they like Nintendo's IP/characters and not because they're looking to make money from Nintendo's IP. It's not like Nintendo are taking the projects themselves down.
Like in this case, these "fans" are quick to say "F*** Nintendo" in response to the loss of revenue. I think people with that kind of attitude should never have made fan content in the first place. It's evidence making money off Mario is driving their desire to do the project far more than respect/admiration for the IP, which tarnishes the project in my opinion.
I just want to see new episodes now that it finally rebooted.
I'm surprised that no one is mentioning SEGA. They've shut down fan projects too, and Sonic characters are also a big part of SMBZ too. I wonder if they'll step in and say anything or not.
A long time ago a director wanted to make a remake of Flash Gordon. But he couldn't get the rights. So he rewrote it so much it was it's own product. He shopped it around till someone finally green lit it, and only because of his own work in the past. He even had to drop his own money for a new studio. That movie is starwars. I've watched SMBZ since it first popped up on new grounds. But I'm sorry he is stealing IP and was trying to profit over it. It is a complete lift job for a lot of his resources. I see no issue with fan art and projects, but it gets dicey when you make money off of it.
@Yorumi parody requires the end product be created for comedic value. While some may find this series funny, it's an action series. Specifically, parody is defined as "the use of some elements of a prior author's composition to create a new one that, at least in part, comments on that author's works" (usually this is done in comedy but that's the full legal definition). This doesn't comment on the Mario or Sonic series in any way, so even if you argue that it IS funny, it still doesn't fulfill the legal definition. It's simply a mashup of characters and story telling themes. It seems unlikely any judge would rule this as parody under current law.
I'm sure that if I enjoyed the video I'd be disappointed, but I didn't and I'm not. It's Nintendo's IP, they can choose how they want their characters represented.
I love the series, but this is hard to defend. Patreon is a funding project, meaning it's more of a "help me make this situation." However it's still making money, so this might be difficult to defend.
BTW Remember when Nintendo took down that free Mario 64 project online?
@allav866 The only thing he might have to pay for is if he's on a new version of the Adobe Creative Suite which are now subscription based, paying a monthly fee. However there's nothing here that would require those so he could easily go back to an older version if he really wanted to make this series, one he'd already paid for or could pay a one-off fee for. Either way $5000 an episode covers that cost many times over. Unless he's donating every penny to charity, this can't be non-profit.
I always had this gut feeling that this guy was kind of entitled and sleazy. I'm glad to see my hunch being validated.
the thing is, he is directly taking most of the sprites and sound effects FROM Nintendo games. Ninty is in the right here.
What a Grade A scumbag. You're whining about Nintendo preventing you from making money off their IPs? Does he have no understanding of copyright infringement? Nintendo is kind of restrictive when it comes to fan content, but this is far out of line. At this rate Nintendo's going to end up suing him for all he's worth, it doesn't look like he'll stop otherwise.
@mariovslink62 Yeah, that's the kind of thing they need to ease up on, especially when Nintendo has no plans of doing something like that themselves. If they're not profiting on the content and they're just trying to give attention to games and IPs that Nintendo won't, there should be no problem. In fact, IMO Nintendo should be encouraging that. Come up with a system that allows Nintendo ownership over the content if they need to, but Nintendo should allow fans to keep making that kind of content, it's a win-win situation.
Should have left in the "because **** nintendo" comment.
Not trying to say that making money off of someone's IP is okay but as someone who was a huge fan of the series, I am getting irritated that Nintendo keeps attacking their fans like that and attacking things that I like. It started with the Let's Plays and now we have this.
It's a series you watch, crossed over with the Sonic Universe with the style of DBZ. It's not like Nintendo was going to do that to begin with.
The natural argument to damage control these actions is "But it's Nintendo's right". It is. Doesn't mean it is the right thing to do or the preferable option, it just means they CAN do that.
More and more Nintendo disappoints me and with them continuing to make mistakes such as this and not showing any signs of learning, I'm just about done with this company.
But yeah, should not make a patreon for a series using a pre existing IP.
I don't think people should be making money out of "Let's Plays" either
The act of making and publicly sharing such a series is not illegal. It's the way he's going about it that is illegal. If they were going about this as every other parody/action/whatever producer on Newgrounds, Youtube, etc have, then the "using someone else's property" argument wouldn't apply here at all.
There are other series out there that are similar to this one, such as Sonic For Hire. Lots of licensed characters are used, yet the videos never get taken down from Youtube. Why? Because they never ask for money from donors/patrons; they instead get money from Google in exchange for the views/subscribtions.
Nintendo is abusing/interpreting in their own favor to the fullest extent of the law the American DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) to do as they please. Their use of the DMCA is particularly draconian, on par with Hollywood, Time Warner, and the like. Fighting fire with fire isn't going to work, he needs to produce the series without asking for money up front.
@DefHalan The whole area is just a muddled mess. I don't think there should be any problem with this or let's plays, but when it comes to actually making money...then it gets weird.
I think my problem is I don't think anyone should be able to make money off of youtube (then its not just a hobby but a business), but people can...and I'm not saying the rule should be changed because some people who do it for a living deserve to make some money off it.
Point is it'd be easier if you couldn't make money off any videos and the copyright laws were looser, but that's just not how it is.
I think the issue is that with stuff like Let's Plays on YT, the creators aren't directly asking for money for using gameplay footage of say, Mario Strikers. The views just come to X Youtuber.
Isn't it interesting that a series like Sonic For Hire can be produced through Machinima, with no takedowns from any of the vast repertoire of licensed characters used, but as soon as someone goes for a solo project, it's a criminal act?
Therein lies the crux: this product itself, and even making money off of it, is not illegal if one goes through the proper steps of acquiring a legal/business sponsor. It is only illegal when those steps are not taken.
The same goes for profiting from Let's Plays: If you go through the proper legal/business steps, it's fine. If not, it's a criminal act. Regardless of whether one feels the act is "right" or "wrong", it's providing a business incentive to those hosting the servers the Let's Play shows are kept on (such as Google) to continue allowing them. Google is not going to easily allow Nintendo to destroy a big business opportunity.
@PlywoodStick I think it differs on how you approach it. He's directly asking for money, whereas projects like Sonic for Hire gain money without asking anybody.
@mariovslink62 In the case of Sonic For Hire, the public was not asked for money to produce the product... But certainly, they signed a deal with Machinima and Google so they could host it and make money from it after the episodes were already done.
The only real difference there compared to Super Mario Z is the legal/business methodology used (or lack thereof). The Sonic For Hire team went through the proper legal/business channels, even without necessarily needing Nintendo's continued express consent; the Super Mario Z creator just took the chaotic/independent "I don't care" approach, which is the real reason he became a target.
@MasterWario Google (and others now) makes a massive amount of money every year from Let's Plays and Twitch, due to their media business model. Just look at the ungodly prominence of shows like PewDiePie.
There's no way they will easily allow the law to be turned against one of their gold mines. Considering how Google is buttering up the American political sphere through millions of dollars worth in donations and lobbying, especially now as a top donor during Presidential elections, I don't foresee the law opposing them at all in the future.
People jump to Nintendo's defense here because their right to copyright protection is something we should all respect and support. This guy could come up with slightly new characters and avoid directly copying. Come on, let your creativity work and stand on its own. Nintendo might have been copying King Kong a bit with DK (though as it turned out in court they were in the right and not guilty of copying) but they made something new out of it so it was all good in the end.
@MrPuzzlez If Nintendo doesn't actively seek to protect their rights to their IP's then my understanding is they can actually lose them. Idk how true that is but i've heard it a few times before from reasonable folks. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable could make an informed comment on the matter, but as of now it's something for you to consider.
I agree with the previous notion that a man being angry over not being able to profit from characters that aren't his is about as entitled as it gets. Comes across as a parasite trying to leech off of Nintendo because he doesn't want to put any work into either his own creativity or an actual job.
By that logic, anyone without a job should be entitled to rob a bank.
Generally, I would tend to agree with you on that. People make mistakes, and I think most people deserve a second chance. Thing is, this guy has already had it removed by Nintendo once, and yet, judging by the posts he still feels perfectly entitled to steal Nintendo's intellectual property, because he "doesn't have a job".
There's really no excuse for him here. The fact that he already had it taken down once pretty much cements this.
He could say that, but he would be lying. It is about the IP. He said in one of the bove posts
"I do have my own characters. But let's just say they aren't nearly as popular as SMBZ."
If it was really about the time, he would make something with his other characters. Any judge in his right mind would see right through that.
I totally support fan creations. I love dorkley and college humor, which also make money from putting popular characters in funny cartoons...
Oh come the f*** on. He didn't even start the Patreon just because of SMBZ, he just started because animating things in general can take a long time even when they are original. He even said on the Patreon. I'm not saying it's wrong that Nintendo try to protect their IP, but with porn artists constantly starting Patreons and using Nintendo characters in their work and sometimes charging for it just rubs me the wrong way. There is so much crap out there that Nintendo could takedown (that half of the times charges for it) out there and never actually do, yet anything that is free for anybody to play or watch they must take down. All this will do is generate an even worse rep for NoA for everyone besides diehard Nintendo fans that will defend anything Nintendo do now.
@PlywoodStick And I think that's my problem with it. Well known youtubers get a pass while everyone else has to deal with laws—but they started out just like the rest of us.
@J-Manix98 so your telling me x artist is i'll draw example peach, and if you pay me $20 on patron i'll email it you this month along with others i draw. they aren't drawing there own char's most of the time, after all no one will pay for a char they don't know. well most people wont. but it's fine under commission cause your paying for the persons hours not the ip.
@allav866 you pay for the time not the ip they can charge you for their hours, it's loop hole that's been used for years. (unless it's there own char's/story of cause)
Okay people, reality check:
If you do a spoof, or a comic or video that features a Nintendo character showing up within it's presentation for satirical intent, or as an homage...that's fine and you can't really do anything about that.
You CAN NOT create something that uses the names, or likeness of a copyrighted character, and use it in something to profit from it.
If you are angry at Nintendo for this, you are being childish, or you don't understand copyright, or you are blindly Nintendo hating.
I can make a web comic with an original name, and have a spoof of Lara Croft appear within the comic, but I can't expect to make a website or video series called "Tomb Raider Z" and not have Crystal Dynamics and Square-Enix shut me down.
This is not Nintendo being big-meanie-pants, this is a hack directly stealing the names of a commercial product to cash in on it's popularity.
You think Ubisoft would stand for an "Assassin's Creed Z" series? Would Microsoft allow "Halo X"?
Of course not!
@Action51 so how do artists get commissions for famous cartoon/ anime/ video game ip's art then? also how come deviant art still exists with all the fan art and commissions on there? (it's not so black and white is why.)
@Chaoz - You don't get it.
You can't just straight up profit from using other people's characters like this.
I can't expect to make a commercial entertainment product using Tyrion Lannister, or 007 James Bond, or Lara Croft as the main title character because I do not hold the copyright or license to do so!
Why not just make a Mickey Mouse cartoon? How about Sonic the Hedgehog, Kratos, or Godzilla?
Just call it Godzilla Z...and it's okay?
@kenrulei - It's very black and white.
First off, people are going to deviantart website for fan art, they aren't going to something called "Super Mario Bros Art" that directly steals the name and characters of copyrighted works.
Technically Nintendo probably could go after someone selling artwork of Mario that way, but there is a clear distinction of that as a unique derivative fan work.
It's the scope, and blatant exploitation of the copyrighted characters to bolster a commercial entertainment product that constitutes the problem here.
For example: I could include an image of Mario in an art exhibition in a gallery, but I can't create and sell an animated show called "Super Mario Show" to be broadcast on Netflix.
@Action51 As I said before, the thing is that the Patreon didn't go directly into SMBZ. It was literally was only made so he can spend his time animating and drawing more often. It benefited SMBZ, sure, but all of the money wasn't going towards SMBZ and was going towards multiply projects. He is in no way, shape, or form "profitting from other people's characters". If that was the case he would have put it in his old Patreon and in his Patreon video that he not using the money for anything beyond SMBZ. He knew this type of shit would happen if he didn't put it into the Patreon Nintendo would jump on him so he decided to try he best to make that clear, even though Nintendo did jump on him anyway. And if Nintendo really cared about "a hack directly stealing the names of a commercial product to cash in on it's popularity." (which is a dumb thing to say since this "hack" has inspired a multitude of famous animator and sprite artists and SMBZ has been insanely popular for a long time) every Nintendo related let's play would have been took down by now, every single artist who has made Nintendo related fan art for money would have been sued, and every game that rips off anything from Mario would have been taken down. That is your logic being applied to literally everything Nintendo related
@Chaoz - It's hard to explain this concept to someone who doesn't have a grasp of creative content creation, but there are differences both subtle and blatant in how "fair use" works.
There is parody and satire, news and documentary, an homage, and various other ways that the likeness of a copyrighted character can be used.
You cannot just create a product that steals the name and likeness of a popular copyrighted character and treat it as one of your own for profit!
@Action51 uhh go look dude they ask for my char with another usually famous ones or at times just for the famous char's. i draw btw i don't do commissions, i'm studying, so have read up in this area. don't get me started on the nsfw artists drawing the chars and charging on paysites for them, why because they can for their hours not the ip. basically i don't own x char but it can take hours to make a good picture so you pay that. (there are many paysites out there with nsfw art, usually a good deal of them are very famous ip's drawn. Nintendo Sega Disney you name it it likely out there.)
@kenrulei - Technically, Nintendo or Disney or Sega COULD go after you, but it's generally not worth it, and your fan artwork is being sold as you creating a piece of fan art.
Super Mario Bros Z is not fan art, it's an attempt to use popular characters and titles to create a franchise for profit.
I can't illustrate the subtle and not-so-subtle differences to you if you don't understand already.
@Action51 Are you even reading what the hell I'm saying? The Patreon wasn't going directing into SMBZ. Hell, for all we know Mark didn't put a cent of that money into SMBZ and just put it into the other, non copyrrighted things he makes. Do you see where I am getting at? There is literally no proof or evidence that he putting all of this money into SMBZ instead of doing what he loves the most. Stop acting like you know how this type of stuff works.
@Chaoz If a patron covers the cost of your material, and you donate the piece as a gift, it doesn’t qualify as an actual sale, yet you can still receive compensation.
@Action51 okay but how is it illegal yes he get's money more as a donation he's not being paid. the donations that help him continue his work noting illegal there. now if he say charged for every episode and only you can get it that way, then i'd agree he's braking copyright. but they go on youtube for free also.
@MrPuzzlez What do you mean it's hard being a graphic artist when you have no resources or help they are plenty of freelance graphic artist that do well also he could use he cool ideas on his own stuff and not some other companies work
@kenrulei the donations are payment he said on twitter that if he don't get the so called donations he wont make new episodes meaning if you don't pay him he won't work
@BigBabyPeach If I remember correctly it was a coffee shop and not a bar
But did anyone else notice the banana at 12:45?
It's as the article put it: Can a fan project really seek commercial funding?
It's as the article put it: Can a fan project really seek commercial funding?
The guy is pushing his luck. He's no unlucky fanboy, his hobby has become a business interest and that's where he went too far. He can say **** Nintendo but he's being a cheeky **** thinking he can do as he pleases with Nintendos copyrighted content for a profit. People get videos taken down on youtube for far less.
I'm sorry, but I'm starting to realize what all of this is. Super Mario Bros. Z was an incredibly popular flash animation that ended around 2008-ish because Mark got tired of people demanding the newest episode after the previous one being "too short", and he ended the series with a "F*ck you" animation to the fans and ended it right there. It wasn't due to him not having enough time, I vividly remember what happened. When I learned this series was being revived, I immediately thought it would pick up where it left off, but when I saw it was being "rebooted" I just thought to myself, "Why?" Now I see. This entire thing seems like a scam. First he very suddenly brought the series up again, inexplicably started over, and now he's demanding money to "Continue the series". I've seen this scenario unfold too many times before. Anyone that demands money to fund something "Fan made" is clearly looking to f*ck over people to make a living. I doubt he's even working on episode 2 right now, much alone planning to continue the series.
Yeah I remeber that melt down, and I get why he was mad. But man did he burn some bridges, felt it was unfair to say screw you to the fans. I was a dan but never demanded his work be faster. I could see in the animation it had A LOT of work in it, and I'm no artist but damn man. But I don't feel bad for him with Nintendo. He is only doing this as he said because his own orignal series sucks. So maybe he is good at flashly animation but not story....much like Lucas. In fact this whole thing smells of a "What if Lucas said done and went with Flash Gordon like he wanted to anyway".
Hmmm sounds like a crappy situation. I get where he's coming from but if I were him I would just use my own original characters. I know it may not be as popular as Mario or Luigi but at least then he could create the world and story in his own unique style and maybe he could even do some amazing things being his own style
"I do have my own characters. But let's just say they aren't nearly as popular as SMBZ."
So, basically what you're saying is that you're not successful at being a creator of original ideas so you think it's ok to leech off of someone else's success. Yeah, I have zero sympathy for this guy.
I am uncertain if fan created content like this is under fair use or not. Certainly, they are using Mario and Sonic characters with a DBZ theme, but at the same time it's not actually directly using content from Mario, Sonic, or DBZ games or shows. I feel like it falls under parody, which is fair use.
It's like how shows like Family Guy and South Park have segments, sometimes entire shows referencing movies, using the real names and likenesses of the characters from the movies often, but while they have been sued for it (as well as for defamation), they have always fought off the lawsuits because their work falls under parody and satire.
Regardless of your belief on fair use or if this is fair use, or your opinion of the attitude of the creator of Mario Bros Z, I don't see how the existence of Mario Bros Z was actively hurting Nintendo. Like Let's Plays, which Nintendo is still actively against, it would probably just provide free publicity, as most other video game publishers have figured out and have stopped going out of their way to attempt to stop, restrict, or take money from them (which usually means they just won't do them at all anymore and do other games instead, giving those games free publicity).
@DarkKirby Exactly. This was basically a parody/tribute to SMB. I mean, look at TeamFourStar. They have been making DBZ parodies for YEARS! AND have a Patreon account! So people saying "Oh, he's stealing, he's stealing!" is total BS.
Now, on the other hand, how he HANDLED the situation(dealing with his fans back then and dealing with Nintendo now), Is a completely different situation. He REALLY should've had more tact than that.
@Pikachupwnage "He also is unemployed so he tries to make money off someone elses IP?"
No. He quit his job to revive SMBZ, which is something people have been asking him to do FOR ALMOST A DECADE.
As you can imagine, this is a great undertaking.
I'm sure he'd love to do this for free but he doesn't live in the mushroom kingdom. A full time job wouldn't allow him to work properly on these, as SMBZ is an animated series that takes weeks of work to finish. A half-time job wouldn't give him enough money to survive...I think, half-time jobs don't even exist in my country so I dunno.
Hopefully you understand the situation a little better. Again, he isn't just some random guy that suddenly decided to profit off Nintendo characters, he quit working on the old version of the series less than a decade ago because it was too time consuming a project and decided to come back NOW because fans have been requesting him to do so for a long time, he isn't even working on the old series anymore, he decided to go back to square one and remake the old episodes with better animation and writing.
@kenrulei - a "domation" doesn't make it legal.
I'm going to make a web series called "God of War Z" and I'm just going to ask for donations.
Shouldn't be a problem, right?
@allav866 Yeah, flash animators have to eat too, unfortunately.
@XCWarrior The corporations are the real thieves.
I'm starting to wonder if most of these comments were written by Nintendo employees. It sure looks that way.
"I'm starting to wonder if most of these comments were written by Nintendo employees."
Wouldn't make me surprised. All these comments definitely do not reflect the popular opinion and look like they were either ① brainwashed by corporate propaganda (unlikely) or ② are a bunch of paid commenters. I'd go with ②
Tap here to load 137 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...