Soapbox: Bayonetta Deserves to be in Super Smash Bros.

I mainly concur

Bayonetta deserves to be in Smash Bros, because Nintendo has funded one of her games, and smash fans also voted for her inclusion.

I really don't think this should be up for debate.

Shovel Knight deserves to be in Smash Bros.

This is a debate? I thought cloud was the one getting all the flak for his inclusion.

Wait... there are people stating she doesn't deserve to be in Smash even if she was picked exactly because many people wanted her in smash?

The internet is such a fickle entity XD

A once exclusive IP on Nintendo and people are debating if she fits into the smash universe? Bayonetta makes more sense than including Cloud. I'm sure fan service gave him the pass though rolleyes

I'm not sure about whether she deserves to be in or not, and honestly don't care. But I can at least say that whatever the case, she likely has more reasons to be in the game than Cloud...

There will always be complaints about any game no matter what the content may be so why bother making said complaints in the first place?

I have found Bayonetta to be a truly distinct character in Smash Bros., both in terms of a fighter and her combo game, as well as her character and 'sexyness' that comes with it. Plus, she was apprently the most voted in the Smash Ballot, and is actually a reasonable candidate, so why shouldn't she be in?

NO! She shouldn't be in, because the character I voted for deserves a spot more! The ballot was rigged! She's a fraud!...I hope you people know I'm joking.

@MrMario02 This is what I thought too. I didn't hear any complaints about Bayo being in, if anything, Cloud got the most groans, and that's because he wasn't in a game on a Nintendo system beyond just a small supporting role from what I heard.

And if she won a ballot, she deserves to get in. Simple as that, more people wanted her than not.

EDIT: well, more votes in one territory, but you get my idea.

@MrMario02 Honestly, ANY character that got in would get flak. Instead of focusing on the gameplay and what they add to smash, they focus on the roster and visual representation. Its like watching a Death Battle video but instead looking at the end to see who won instead of seeing WHY the character won. The immaturely vocal are just a minority that gets the most attention for how loud and obnoxious they are. I admit I wasn't that fond of the last 2 characters that got in Smash when they were announced, but I really liked them after playing them. And honestly, that's all that matters in the end.

Most of those people complaining where some of the one upset about Bayonetta 2 being a Wii U exclusive

@BakaKnight I mean, when you consider how many people want Goku in Smash... the fans aren't always right.

I think Bayonetta is like paying thanks to Platinum Games for their top-notch support of the Wii U in rough times, and not breaking their contract like Ubisoft did. And while The Wonderful 101 was more deserving of a fighter rep, Bayonetta made for the most interesting and unique character.

*ones

I'm happy that Bayonetta is in Smash, but "deserves" and "does not deserve" is the age old completely opinion based argument for and against character inclusion.

Awesome and very funny video! I agree completely....she was voted in and if you don't like her, don't download it! I think having the Mii Fighters is dumb, so I didn't download them. And its about time Nintendo though of us who aren't 10 and want adult fare.

I don't mind if she is in or out. I guess you don't have to use her.

What I have an issue with is, why are we still talking about Smash Bros 14 months on.

That and Splatoon and Mario Maker.

I guess because we have little else to discuss.

Bayonetta shouldn't have been in the game because now we can't complain about how she wasn't in the game because of censorship.

And at the end of the day, isn't that all we Nintendo fans want? Especially older ones. Our favourite pastimes are:

1) Whining at Nintendo for treating us like babies, when we're actually big strong grown-ups with mortgages and opinions and hair that grows in funny places
2) Paying our mortgages
3) Occasionally playing Nintendo games

Nintendo has ruined our favourite thing. Now we have to pay our mortgages and actually play Nintendo games instead.

The Bayonetta announcement only disappointed me at first because she was the FINAL character, which effectively ruled out Rayman from the game. Now that I'm over that, I'm so glad she's in the game.

@zool Because Bayonetta was announced two months ago. Smash may have been released in 2014, but content wise, it's still pretty relevant.

I think she's a awesome addition to the roster.

lol too sexualised and mature for Smash when they've had Zero Suit Samus in all her lycra-clad sexiness since Brawl? If it's a question of her outfit peeling off when she attacks, well most of the time the view is so zoomed out you don't even notice. I imagine on 3DS it's even harder to see.

@NintendoFan64 I thought I was reading a Miiverse post for a second. All that is missing is a drawing of Shovel Knight crying.

Bayonetta is a fun character in general. I don't know that she is necessarily a good match for the game's aesthetic (then again, neither is ZSS), but I'm glad she was included over something random (like an anime character) or jokey (like Shovel Knight, as much as I enjoyed that game).

More longtime loved characters I would have preferrd, but I respect your alls opinion on it. Good points

My only complaint about the Smash Ballot is that we should have been told there would have been only one winner from the get-go.

That, and the fact the Ballot character that came second could have been developed instead of Corrin.

She absolutely should be in Smash Bros, and on Nintendo systems in the future as an exclusive IP. Shovel Knight should get bought by Nintendo as well, but alas, this is all the opinion of one reader among the many naysayers that exist.

Yeah, her inclusion is quite fine. She's DLC so the rating of the game shouldn't be affected anywhere, plus it seems like they censored some of her "nature" from her games for Smash, anyway. I find it a bit ironic though that in Brawl's day, "real-world" guns weren't allowed for Snake, yet here we are with Bayonetta wielding four of them.

Personally, while I love her series's gameplay (and presumably will also love how she fights in Smash), I greatly dislike Bayonetta's annoyingly trite narcissism, as well as her series's cheesy attempts at cheeky, wound-rubbing satire (Gomorrah's elephant/trumpet-like cry, anyone?). Even so, she just oddly fits in this game, not in the least because of her recent Nintendo affiliations (though I'd still rather have all Brawl's roster restored in lieu).

Question: Who wears the least clothes in Smash?

A. Donkey Kong
B. Pac-Man
C. Bowser
D. Yoshi
E. Jigglypuff
F. Duckhunt Dog
G. Sonic the Hedgehog
H. Kirby
I. Mr Game and Watch
J. Charizard
K. Bayonetta

See? She's not even in the top 10 most scantily clad characters!

Bayonetta deserves to be in Smash if her inclusion increases the possibility of Bayonetta 3 gracing our beloved Nintendo console in the near future.

@crimsontadpoles Definitely. Those Rayman trophies are now really pointless and out-of-place.

Another small point; at least Bayonetta comes across as DELIBERATELY sexy/sexual/sexualised/whatever. I still can't shake the feeling that ZSS looks like someone halfway through preparations for a naturist Smurf convention.

Sexuality is very much an intentional, and arguably quite powerful part of Bayonetta's character. ZSS is slightly more inexplicable. But then so is 'Underpants Shulk', so I guess it's neither here nor there. Or maybe both here and there. Or something.

Even though I would of loved to have Lloyd from the Tales series or Phoenix Wright, Bayonetta deserved it. It's one of the only good 3rd party games that remained exclusive to Wii U.

Is there a possibility of a Bayonetta Amiibo?

@NESlover85 Yes

@CharlieSmile "because Nintendo has funded one of her games, and smash fans also voted for her inclusion."
Ok? So your point is just because there was a Bayonetta on the WiiU that gives her the right to be on an entirely different game? So if there was a halo on the wiiU Master Cheif deserves to be in smash? I couldn't disagree more with that statement.

She's an awesome pick for the roster, even though I wanted Inklings so bad, I will never argue that.

But she needs a nerf or two. I could go on and on about what all she can do, what weird things other characters can't do to her and so on. Also, Corrin got some weird glitches going on, that NEEDS to be patched before EVO.

Also, Daddy Sakurai, after your vacation please buff Samus, Palutena, and Zelda. They need it. They aren't bad or unusable, but they need some work.

@NESlover85 not just a possibility, it was confirmed on the last Nintendo direct that all dlc will receive an amiibo, also Nintendo has stated numerous times that every smash character will get an amiibo.

Wait... Who said that Alex Olney was an average man?! 😛

@Zoda_Fett
lolok

Bayonetta is perfect for smash, her moveset From her games are ideal for beating enemies up! Plus, she's DLC, completely optional for those that -Totally understandable- don't like her.
But to complain about a character because your first choice did not get it? I don't like Corrin, but I don't complain about him...

I have no issue with Bayonetta being in, its just that she feels out of place.

Not because of the adult themes(Fire Emblem goes into adult themes, as does some of the other Nintendo IPs)

Its just.... How do I put this?

Every other third-party character is an icon of gaming and a who who's of the most famous faces of video games. Pac-Man is the first icon of gaming, Mega Man is a famous character whose franchise spanned countless games across numerous platforms, Sonic is the most famous console mascot that is not named Mario or Master Chief, Ryu is the face of fighting games with his appearance, game play, and backstory inspiring countless other fighting game characters over the years, and Cloud is the JRPG equivalent of Ryu.

But Bayonetta just sticks out like a sore thumb. To put it another way, its like having an all-Star NBA team filled with Larry Bird, Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, and then some random player to fill the last spot.

I know she got voted in, but I feel the third-party slots should go to iconic or famous third-party characters given the limited number that open compared to the Nintendo-owned characters.

With that said, I have no problem with her being in. She won the ballot and deserves her place. It just feels odd that she got in over someone like Snake.

On another note, I will keep voting for Simon Belmont in the next Smash ballot if they hold one. Castlevania needs to be in Smash!

I have been absolutely loving having her in the game so far mainly because she brings a unique moveset and fighting style to the game. It certainly helps that I think she fits right in alongside the greats like Mario and Link and I can see that I will be using her for quite a long time. People are probably upset that she stole a spot from their preferred character if the miiverse posts are anything to go by.

It's like saying any random really badly done female character deserves to be in Smash Bros. The best thing about Smash Bros is that it has actual strong female characters who don't have to rely on looks and being aimed at 13 year old boys.
No different to adding DOA female characters - they are all seen as a joke by serious fighting game fans.

@MrGawain technically she has no clothes as it is her hair.
Her shoes are basically it, making her more a hilariously bad teen fantasy than DOA female characters.

I hold a belief that any video game character should get the chance to appear in Smash as long as Sakurai's team find a way to make them work as fighters. I also think it's inherently selfish for someone to say a video game character "doesn't deserve" to be in Smash for what I would describe as contrived reasoning.

Also, anyone saying a character is a "waste of a character slot" is absolutely stupid and ridiculous since there was NEVER a set number for the fighter roster. The DLC proved this to be dead wrong.

Like any other character, Bayonetta has great reasons to be in Smash:
1. Her combos allow for creative fighting.
2. She's a unique fighter who is very unconventional but her moves make for a great fighter.
3. Her sequel game (Bayonetta 2) was saved by Nintendo through funding and was made a exclusive on the Wii U.

I know not everyone agrees with the choice but some of the fandom for Smash come off as selfish and very off-putting. If we are trying to make decisions for the creators, then why have Smash Bros. in the first place?

She is the best of the DLC, followed by Ryu, Mewtwo. Corrin, Lucas and Roy don't do much for me, tho I have all but Corrin (will eventually get)

I have no problem with Bayonetta, I didn't vote her because I thought she wouldn't make it in a game that rated E10. But I guess Nintendo found a way to make that work.

I did initially think that Bayonetta was a ridiculous choice to put into Smash, before AND after her reveal, because of her sexual contrast. Yeah, Zero Suit Samus is (arguably?) equally sexy, but she doesn't act in a sexual manner, unlike Bayonetta. It's not even really because of the kids for me, but because I feared that her sexual endeavor would have harmed the overal innocent style Smash has had all these years.

However, after having gotten to actually see her in game and all that after she was released, I'm now definitely convinced that she definitely earned her place in Smash and that those fears are now entirely gone. The sexual stuff doesn't shine through enough for it to really hurt the playful atmosphere, yet it's still present enough to let Bayonetta be Bayonetta. I feel like they've absolutely found a perfect balance for this.

A good balance for her playstyle though? Not quite. I personally think Witch Time is a little TOO good, if it allows bayonetta to forward smash and downward smash spike her opponents with it, as well as her down smash being a rather high range meteor smash at all. Aside from these issues, and maybe being a little too good in being able to combo people into the blast lines, I think she's just fine.

I think Bayonetta is a fantastic fit for Smash. She looks sort of out of place at first but fits in real nicely with the other characters once you start fighting.

@Hachiko
I thought Bayonetta was a little op at first but I find she has a lack of launching type attacks. I can get the opponent to 130% and up but can't launch them without a smash attack which is fairly slow. I'm not the best smash player so maybe it's just me, either way great addition.

@chewytapeworm No he doesn't. "Geez, it just an o-" I don't care. Your opinion is wrong.

yes! i agree, why are people salty is beyond me. did i honestly expect her to be in this game? no, but at the end she did. people been requesting her since smash 4 started.

people needs look at this way. not every fav character is going get in the game. we never got a "Promise" about a character anyway, just that "you vote for whoever and hope for the best"

@liljmoore @Zoda_Fett Awesome! I am excited to get one!

I am actually surprised that nobody even mentioned an issue one might have with her: she's a demon-summoning witch, that quite often fights angels. There were problems when in the DK rap "one hell of a guy" was said, to the point that in Melee this was replaced with "one heck of a guy", but now that there are more glaring issues, nobody even dares to mention them?

bayonetta's mature nature is largely present only in her own game. her presence in smash has no sexual context otherwise. i'd say her presence isn't just deserved but required because it would likely help motivate development of bayonetta 3.

@Caryslan Think of her as Platinum's mascot, just like Pac-Man is Namco's, Cloud is Square's, and so forth. She belongs because Platinum belongs.

Clearly Iam in the minority regarding Bayonetta, but no- she absolutely shouldn't have been included in the SmashBros roster-

1)She may have been a "popular" vote in Europe&the US but why weren't the top votes in Japan disclosed? Hmmmm....

2)Nintendo has so many IPs with characters that have been around a looking time but they choose to promote a newly acquired IP who's game had less than stellar sales? Hmmmmm, maybe they included Bayonetta to boost sales of the game whose IP they acquired and did not create?

3)Sorry to say, but just the lore and history of Bayonetta don't fit in the smash universe- its like trying to put a square peg through a round hole.

4)Last but definitely not least- Bayonetta is a sexually mature character that runs against the theme of smash-

I know a lot of you will come after my opinion- but just remember that its just that, My Opinion.

PS:Bayonetta is foul

@crimsontadpoles I didn't want Rayman in the game due to the ubisoft (same with Snake and Konamo), I love the character but I don't love what the company did with Wii U.

@zerolanche We had Solid Snake. At this point we even have Wii Fit Trainer, what kind of backstory does she/he have? None.

p.s also your points are crappie and u r a big succ

@Thatguywhoeats What did Ubisoft do to the Wii U? They were one of the strongest third-party supporters of the system in its first few years on the market.

To be blunt, they did more for the Wii U then Square Enix, Capcom, Konami, Namco Bandai, and Sega did.

You know, if there's one thing Bayonetta's addition in Smash (specifically her reveal trailer) taught me, is we need a Kid Icarus/Bayonetta crossover at some point. It could have two prologue stories, one following Pit on the light and the other following Bayonetta on the dark, before a main campaign possibly with Hades and Balder working together that would bring Pit and Bayonetta together and have them trade off player roles in some way. Both Uprising and the Bayonetta games are high speed action games, and the lores seem like they can tie in together pretty well.

@Thatguywhoeats poop, lol. J/K Honestly though, even if my points don't hold water with you and you disagree, that's fine bro- just my opinion. I flat out don't like or agree with Bayonetta being in Smash. That's what this post is about, our opinions on this matter- to each his own I always say.

PS:Bayonetta is terrible

I can't believe Nintendo included Wario in this game. Until Wario is removed, I refuse to buy this game. He is vulgar, encourages flatulence, promotes obesity, growth defects and greed, yet Nintendo presents him as such an attractive, sexy individual. This is where the corruption of society begins. Wario seeks to undermine the perfect society that we have created and Nintendo willingly allows him to continue corrupting our youths. Please, join my cause to remove Wario from this game and stem the corrupting tide which flows from him! (This is probably trying too hard, but maybe it'll give someone a good chuckle.)

Of course Bayonetta deserves to be in Smash. One thing that amuses me is that Yahtzee Croshaw said it would cause a lot of explaining if she was included, and then she was. Well, so what? Actually she is fairly tame (in game), and I like her, so there! * sticks out tongue *

Wasn't aware there was any negative reaction at all. I've played Smash more than ever since she joined the roster.

@zerolanche ps fight me minecraft

I love how everyone is taking the "highest ranking viable character" nonsense as fact. It's basically the scapegoat way they could justify their decision to pick her just because they wanted to.

"The Silent Majority wanted her" is Alex's argument. Lol ok. I can claim that too. The silent majority actually voted for Naked Mario to be included. They need to include Naked Mario because obviously the silent majority is completely in favor of this. Did you go out and speak to the silent majority before you reported this as a fact, Alex?

From what I can tell, everyone wanted Shovel Knight. Including the creators of Shovel Knight who might have even let him be included for free.

@Caryslan ayyy let's delay this completed title for the wii u so it can release with the other platforms lmaooook then let's make a game for the wii u after we finished deity the other versions lmaoollooooo

@Fee Geez, it's just an obvious fact! Shovel Knight should be in SSB.

@AlexOlney

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Bayonetta even placed on the poll? Beyond Sakurai's word of course.

Why haven't they released the results of the poll to show the rankings? Seems a bit fishy. They give us two new characters that no one asked for and their pick of the character from the poll and no one seems to find that strange?

For all we know, she placed 63rd worldwide.

@SanderEvers

What's wrong with Shovel Knight? Why is Shantae a better choice than Shovel Knight anyway?

I'm just curious to hear your reasoning behind that one.

@SanderEvers

Fair enough, but that is entirely your opinion. I've played all of the Shantae games and wasn't all too impressed with them. But that doesn't make me blind enough to say she wouldn't have an interesting moveset. Which is what you're doing with Shovel Knight who, among his attacks and his spells, would easily have more than enough unique moves to make an interesting smash character.

However, if you want to complain about a character's "backstory" being the reason they should be excluded from a game, why don't you give me the interesting back story on Greninja. Or R.O.B. Or Sheik, or Zero Suit Samus. Heck, maybe Dr. Mario. They have such robust and fleshed-out backstories, those guys.

@AlexOlney

Well, if you're going to cite Sakurai's word as evidence, then I'll cite this random Reddit poll of fan votes from the silent majority.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3i2gq9/smash_ballot_results_are_here_for_the_smash_bros/

Bayonetta placed 10th. Shantae number 1.

And here's another of aggregate fan votes:

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/04/01/smash-poll-smash-dlc-results/

Yes. Wario is sexiness.

@SanderEvers

So you gave no backstory on Greninja, Sheik is just Zelda, R.O.B. has never been given a backstory, Zero Suit Samus is just Samus without armor.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on all of those.

@AlexOlney

It would have only been fair if they published the results.

It gives validity to these polls and makes the fans feel like their vote mattered.

And if you're going to cite "predominantly English-speaking" samples, then I think it's very important to point out the fact that Bayonetta received 2.5% of the votes in Japan, according to data mined from many fan polls scoured by sourcegaming.info
King K Rool placed first, Snake placed second.

I'm not trying to be a troll here, I'm just asking for a little transparency when it comes to this poll. And I'm also asking for a little more integrity than "Everyone who didn't speak up wanted Bayonetta in the game because I said so". That's some Sakurai-level nonsense there.

I'm not so quick to trust the guy who's justification for adding Corrin was "I wanted to add Corrin but was worried maybe there were too many Fire Emblem characters so I asked my team of Yes Men who said there weren't too many and I should probably add a few more".

I'm not even arguing against the inclusion of Bayonetta. Her moveset is fine enough for Smash Bros. I would have just liked to have seen someone who the fans actually voted for win the poll. Because most of the fighters who seem to have ranked higher than her would be just as suitable for Smash (some are even Smash veterans). I am a huge Smash fan and am very involved in the Smash community. Before Bayonetta was announced as the "winner", her name scarcely came up in any discussions.

Oh, bideo. Goodie.

If you really think about it, that ballot or whatever it was called had nothing to do with picking her into smash bros. And I didn't see anyone on interwebz thinking about it this way.

In retrospect, we actually got hint about Bayonetta nearly year in advance.
I mean, remember Kuroda and Hashimoto said they hope for something Bayonetta related in 2015 and to keep an eye out for her?

@AlexOlney

It wasn't datamined from the ballot. It was exhaustive research done by an individual named PushDustin. You read more about it here if you`re interested:

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

He scoured message boards, social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc) to collect as much data as he could to make a representation of the ballot results.

I highly HIGHLY doubt that enough people who aren`t participating on message boards even know who Bayonetta is and are passionate enough to go out of their way to vote for her on a Smash ballot.

I certainly agree that the vocal minority is not representative of the entire voting audience. But it`s still very telling that the "vocal minority" has been asking for Shantae, Shovel Knight, King K Rool, Wolf, Snake and the Inklings. That's not even counting the votes for Shrek, Goku and Mrs. Doubtfire. Never once mentioning Bayonetta. So she was such a dark horse that just happened to have an amazing amount of support from the rest of the voting audience who just weren't speaking up? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

We're talking about hundreds of different choices. Bayonetta being mentioned maybe 2 out of those 100 times.

People would be complaining no matter who had won the ballot, even if it was Ridley. At the end of the day, at least she is fun to play as.

With all the random characters in there at this point, I can't really see why anyone would be complaining that Bayonetta doesn't fit. Any character can basically work in Smash Bros at this point, imo, as long as the art team tweaks the design ever so slightly to fit in with the rest of the Smash Bros characters and play styles.

Kirby Bayonetta is just delightful.

Many votes also come down to "is it a viable character and can Nintendo legally put the character in? " Bayonetta is DLC, you dont want her, don't buy her. She was the highest ranking character in the ballot and since Nintendo bank rolled her last game, she is a viable character. Also, she is so much fun to play as.

Okay, not that I care about how sexual she is...but has no one noticed that her crouch/crawl position has her on all fours with her ass sticking straight up in the air? Anyone?

My problem with Bayonetta is multifaceted:

• Nintendo probably would have included her anyway (or could have without the ballot) and there are plenty of other underrepresented franchises already (Hey Donkey Kong! Hey Metroid!). I would have preferred for the ballot to give a character Nintendo wasn't inclined to do anyway.
• This wave of DLC seems to be far too cheap, play wise. Corrin and Bayonetta seem to be insanely overpowered or given extensive range compared to previous DLC. It kind of takes the fun out of it when everyone flocks to the new DLC characters that are cheap.
  (I may just be disappointed with most of the DLC characters as it is. I like Roy more than Marth or Lucina, but it is disappointing to have a clone that was also in a previous game as DLC. Same could be said for Lucas. At least Ryu and Cloud are unique, with each having strengths and weaknesses).

However, the bright spot of her inclusion are the sounds she makes when she is launched or KO'd. Bliss.

I believe that their were more deserving characters, but her inclusion does make sense as Nintendo treats Bayonetta as one of their own IP. They treat her character with the same, if not more, respect then Sony or Microsoft had. During Bayonetta 2 development Nintendo was wanting to make it a more adult experience which is surprising knowing Nintendo's family friendly expertise. Hell they advertised the game in playboy, which they also did with Splatoon so ya. So if their willing to keep her character and game intact with the original source material then obviously she would fit. The only thing I don't get is why didn't some of her alternate costumes be the Nintendo costumes in Bayonetta 2? Oh well at-least we can hope for the next Smash game. Hell they added Megaman, Duckhunt dog, Pacman, Shulk, and many other new inclusions. Who knows who they will add next time around. Maybe the Smash ballots will help decide some new inclusions for the next one, lets just wait and see.

I voted for Pichu

Bayo all the way! I was clamouring about wanting her included ever since the game dropped. I hope they add in her Sarasaraland and Mushroom Kingdom princess costumes as alternates too...

People are just mad over Bayonetta because they voted for stupidly unreasonable characters like Banjo-Kazooie