About a week ago, the last DLC fighters for Super Smash Bros. were added to the game, finally bringing the lengthy support for the game to a close. It could certainly be argued that this is now the biggest Smash Bros. ever, with a higher stage count and bigger fighter roster than any game before it. All the same, even a game as massive as Smash 4 will inevitably get stale, and Masahiro Sakurai recently addressed this concept in his latest Famitsu column.
Sakurai mentioned the DLC characters, noting that – aside from characters that have appeared in previous Smash games – the new characters were all added in to bring something new to the table, such as how Corrin turns into a dragon or Bayonetta uses combos and Witch Time. He believes this is important to keeping the game interesting, as players will inevitably get tired of the limited amount of content.
He then goes on to talk about how they can't go about changing the Smash Bros. games too much and that the same core rules are purposefully held between all the games. This is the reason why the series has never expanded into 3D or added extra gauges or other features. While it could certainly bring about new experiences, some fans would ultimately be displeased with the change.
What do you think? Do the new fighters shake up the gameplay enough for you? Would you be displeased if the gameplay was overhauled in a more serious way? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
Thanks to Nintendo Everything for the translation.
Smash Bros is definitely not a single-player game; treating it like one would guarantee that it gets stale quickly. My school has a Smash club, and it's wonderful. The game never gets old, because every day is new combos, new matchups, new matches, etc. Every discovery we make changes the way the entire game plays, like when some of us realized that sidestepping was way better than rolling against some attacks. The game hasn't gotten anywhere near stale for us yet, and I don't think it will for at least another couple years.
I wish they ported Smash Run over to the Wii U version. Whoever thought Smash Tour was a good idea needs to be fired.
The core of Smash Bros is fine the way it is. I wouldn't want to see a change in the game that changes how it plays. I would have loved it if they added a single player mode like Subspace from Brawl though. I do enjoy a story mode.
Smash Bros. will never get stale!
Smash bros is defiantly one of my favorite series(doesn't beat Zelda but it's right behind it), however I feel change could go either or. I mean everyone is afraid to change something that is already amazing. I think if they were to have an idea(s) of changing things, they should make it a poll like the dlc and see how that slides.. Then again we might get an outcome like Bayonetta 😕
I'll be playing Smash Wii U and 3DS for quite sometime. The taunt party matches I've been running into get pretty stale though.
I love Smash and the way it is. That said, I wouldn't mind if they switched things up a bit. It's not like they even have to jump in both feet first. There could be the revamped system and a "Classic" mode for players to choose from... Find out what mode players play the most while also figuring out what works and what doesn't in the new mode. Just my two cents.
Yeah, Sakurai's right, that's why there's typically such a huge gap between releases. The smash hype goes in phases:
1. Pre-pre release (building hype)
2. Pre-release (max hype)
3. Release (Maintained hype)
4. Post-release (diminishing hype)
5. Post-post release (Stale--dead hype)
Right now I'd say we're somewhere around stage 4, depending on the person, of course.
Sakurai basically makes stale proof games when it comes to multiplayer focused games. Smash and Kirby Air Ride are games I've played with friends for years and they're still just as fun! That's the way to make good multiplayer games!
Smash core mechanics are kept on each iteration, but since every game is built from scratch, they tend to change enough so each game feels different (e.g. DI vs vectoring).
Sakurai's right, introducing new characters with non-traditional styles is the key to keep Smash fresh.
This is no excuse why Ganondork is so bad. You even admitted that you schemed these two competitive based characters.
It is smart to leave Smash Bros. as the same base game. Though yes you will get those people claiming each game in the series is the same part of the hype of Smash Bros. is you know you will get a quality fighter.
I would say that new characters for the most part mix things up enough. Obviously you want to expand on what the previous game did which Smash 4 did (new content and challenges) and didn't do (no story mode).
@abbyhitter Agreed. It manages to be a worse party game than Mario Party 9.
Smash Run would've been more fun if players could interact with each other, but overall, it's not as fun as Kirby's Air Ride, or simply playing a regular Smash match.
All I want is a single player Adventure Mode, it doesn't even need to have cutscenes. Just a longer more enjoyable Adventure Mode with reference and elements from every Nintendo, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic the Hedgehog, Street Fighter, Bayonetta, and Final Fantasy VII games.
The core great works really well, so there's no reason for any drastic changes. They could play around with extra modes if they have a new idea that's quite different.
@Trikeboy I also enjoyed the sub space emissary mode. I hope they include a similar mode in the next title. An interesting story could be played out with all those heroes and villains. New gameplay elements as well.
@Trikeboy I also enjoyed the sub space emissary mode. I hope they include a similar mode in the next title. An interesting story could be played out with all those heroes and villains. New gameplay elements as well.
@abbyhitter Agreed. I really enjoy Smash, but I have thought this since the 50 Things Smash Direct. After Events, Smash Run adds such a great Rouge like experience. Great for single player longevity, even better with online, friends or randoms.
Like movies and books, you watch or read and move on.
Same with games play have fun and move on. Ok maybe games like Smash or Mario Kart could have another level added to refresh the game a bit.
But Nintendo adding content to Mario Maker, Splatoon or Smash is not compensation for the lack of new/original games.
I missed the N64 entry (foolishly dismissing it as a cheap knock-off of Mario and Zelda, with Pikachu thrown in), but loved Melee, Brawl and both versions of 4. At this point I'm clearly happy with the underlying architecture, but feel it's worth pointing out that it didn't hurt Street Fighter or Mario Kart to add new features to the core mechanics. In fact in the case of both series, revisions to the formula led to major critical and commercial success.
Adding splatoon characters and stages is the best way to make it stay fresh
I really missed the Subspace Emissary/Adventure mode in this iteration. I've been playing since the N64 version and i found having a single player adventure in the Wii version kept the game fresher for me than anything else. I really hope they add one in for the rumoured NX version of Smash.
Considering that I have played Smash for over 250 hours I think they did a pretty darn good job of making the game feel fresh even after having played it for that long.
Instead of adding a subspace emissary or adventure mode sakurai should implement a kind of smash maker mode where you can build your own levels with stage pieces from all nitendo universes and enemies/bosses/items/fighters that you collect from trophies.
Not only it would be cool,it also would give the trophies a reason to exist.
It's completely foolish and ignorant to ignore the players who want a single player experience. I really miss the Subspace Emissary mode from Brawl. In fact, I played that more than I did the multiplayer mode because of the depth and replayability.
Sometimes you can only take so many random, but ultimately pointless multiplayer battles. Especially when you're consistently facing off against people who are either complete spammers, or just simply better than you to the point that it's not very fun to play. Single player is the perfect remedy for this.
I also think that in future iterations of the series, Sakurai should be limited to choosing only three characters for inclusion. One of the most shameful things that came out of Smash 4 is the revelation that Sakurai really doesn't care about what the fans are asking for and instead selfishly chooses characters to please himself.
Not a fan of anything, though I do enjoy something every now and then. What I would like to see is something that was before, but with a fresh touch.
historical evidence of when Street Fighter went 3Dish proves fighters need to keep their original identity, plus the whole Sumo-esque mechanic of having to knock players out the arena instead of bludgeoning characters until the collapse/die protects Nintendo's family values.
@InternetBowser The issue with making it 3D is the fact that it simply wouldn't be Smash anymore. First, it would be incredibly difficult to bring similar platforming mechanics and ledge-guarding to a 3D Smash game, as it would be 3D. Making it 3D would also take away the easy to learn factor that 2D Smash has. And finally, it would hurt us competitive Smash players so much, we would only play older Smash games. So esentially, it would make Smash worse for both casual players and competitive players.
Smash in 3D would probably play like Capcom's Power Stone. It would be interesting as a spin off.
I'm really glad this is being addressed. Sakurai has always wanted to move on from Smash, and given how stressful each game's development is to him, I can't blame the man. However, if moving on from the franchise is indeed the plan, I hope Sakurai has picked his own successor and mentored him, so that the series' future won't be too dependant on a single game designer's presence.
@zool So now Splatoon is not a new/original game? Where's the logic in that?
No it's not, but it was.
@sinalefa aaaah Power Stone! Capcom's long forgotten gem... That's actually a great idea to spin off Smash in that vein. Hell Capcom could even work alongside Nintendo to develop. It could even retain the area knock out component a la Soul Blade.
Now excuse me while I go dust off my Dreamcast.
@zool yeah OK then, I guess every company is a failure unless they release a new IP every 10 months that sells 4 million+. Good grief.
The best way to keep Smash "fresh" is to add the inklings!
Core Smash Bros. doesn't need to be 3D but there's nothing wrong with making a spin-off Smash 3D Arena in similar vein to Power Stone. I think that would be interesting.
Fresh is not a word I would use to describe Smash Bros 4...
I've been such a big fan of Ssb and never thought I'd say that one day, but I'm sick of Ssb. I want a new nintendo All-star game.
I'm sure Mr Sakurai is just as sick of it.
@Vandy That's not even close to true, while Sakurai chooses a few members of the roster based off his personal opinions/release trends in Nintendo around the game's development, most are based off general fan demand. Only about a third of the newcomers added were not specifically from fan demand were Wii Fit, Greninja, Miis, Robin, Lucina, Duck Hunt, and Corrin, which counts for even less when you consider Greninja became popular between X/Y and his Smash reveal and Lucina is a simple bonus character. Even the DLC was almost all fan demand, there was a general demand for the DLC vets and Ryu, Cloud was added due to high FF requests in the ballot, and Bayonetta was the highest voted request worldwide among realizable fighters. And Corrin's addition, while being the only DLC fighter to be out of the blue, was more Nintendo telling Sakurai to put him in as opposed to his own decision as he's stated he even thought he was adding too many FE fighters with Corrin.
That's not true at all. Nowhere does he ever mention that Nintendo forced his hand to include Corrin. From everything I've read, Sakurai claims he "wanted to put in a character from a game that will be released soon". And surprise, surprise he chose a Fire Emblem game! And then he further goes on to say that even if HE thought they were putting in too many FE characters, he was conveniently "assured by the development team" that they were not and he should go ahead and do it. Because of course they would.
And the whole Bayonetta controversy has already been well documented. He liked Bayonetta most, so he chose her. Simple as that. You could easily "fully realize" about 10 different characters that have appeared in fan opinion polls. If you can "fully realize" a character like Lucina who is just a female Marth clone with generic sword moves, you sure as heck can fully realize any other character who actually has a unique personality and creative moves.
@Vandy You're argument against Bayonetta doesn't really hold ground. First off fan polls were not the actual ballot, and mostly had scripted option lists and didn't even have Bayonetta since most of us thought she was too mature. And in terms of the actual ballot, remember her rankings:
1st in Europe
Top 5 in the US (we'll assume 5th)
No real noteworthy ranking in Japan
One would argue the US and Europe likely make between 60 and 80% of the votes, and while presumably the top 4 in the US and high ranking Japan choices (and Europe's lower ranked characters) could get a higher vote for a few characters, chances are the fighters that beat Bayonetta were one of four options:
A non video game character, which Sakurai outright said wouldn't happen.
A 3rd party character who couldn't be added since Nintendo or the owners wouldn't allow them too. Which presumably eliminates anyone from Sega, Capcom, Namco, or Square as they would both sides seem fine in each party's case
A 1st party character who couldn't be added due to being an assist trophy/stage boss. And by consequence Bayonetta presumably beat any 1st party fighter that wasn't one of these except...
Ice Climbers, which were cut due to the 3DS.
Long Story short, fan polls weren't the ballot, and the other possible winners couldn't have been added.
Fan polls are absolutely a good representation of the ballot. So are the countless times I've read people say "I voted for ____"
Shantae, Wolf, the Inklings, Snake, Rayman, Shovel Knight, another character from the DK series, Bomberman
These are just some of the characters that were most popular among fan requests even before the Smash ballot. Before the ballot results were announced, there were scarce mentions of Bayonetta.
Any one of the aforementioned characters are either a series veteran or a more robust character. Two in particular:
Shovel Knight, the creators were practically begging to let Nintendo include him. And he already had an Amiibo on the way and a sequel in the works. In addition to that, he has enough moves and spells to "fully realize" a fun character
The Inklings, they are two characters from Nintendos newest big IP. Fire Emblem, outside of Japan, has a niche following. Splatoon quickly became wildly popular and beloved and has taken a place next to some of Nintendo's biggest IPs of all time.
@Vandy I totally expect the future of SSE to be an amiibo game like Lego Dimensions, Disney Infinity and Skylanders.
@Vandy Shovel Knight likely didn't get enough votes to be in since his game hadn't been released in Japan yet, that and Nintendo might have just said no to him being in.
Fire Emblem arguably became a pillar franchise after Awakening, and the Inklings probably weren't as popular as the internet made them out to be, much like the other characters that got mii costumes.
Wolf (and all other vets) was accounted for in Bayonetta's rankings as stated by Sakurai stating "these rankings include fighters from previous games in the series
Bomberman could be a casualty of Konami going south pretty much.
Snake, just combine what I said on Wolf and Bomberman together.
All the others, again, not as popular in the actual ballot as the internet made them out to be. In a blind democracy (which the ballot was within certain restrictions), a silent majority will usually beat a vocal minority, and especially a lot of them
I'd be ok with a Skylanders-esque Amiibo game and think it's about time. But I don't think implementing that into Smash Bros is a wise decision.
I'm not even really arguing against Bayonetta because at least she's something different. Albeit I don't believe for a second that they did much more consideration for her beyond Sakurai saying "I like this one best - do that one. Just tell them she placed first in Europe and be really vague about it."
The biggest problems are Cloud and Corrin. They should have taken the second and third place ballots and rewarding the fans for their support. There is no suitable case to be made that we needed ANOTHER Fire Emblem character. Or another Sword Fighting character, or a character from Final Fantasy at all.
I understand what you are trying to present with Shovel Knight, but it's all entirely speculation on your part. And it's partially undone by the fact that you previously presented that Japan had "no noteworthy ranking" for Bayonetta. Meanwhile, Shovel Knight is immensely popular in Europe and the US, so by that alone he should have beaten out Bayonetta. I would have an extremely hard time believing that Nintendo would flat-out say "no" to him when they approved him to be the FIRST non-Nintendo Amiibo. Additionally, Bayonetta is a little mature for Nintendo and not exactly a "character" that you could sell merchandise and plushies and cutesy things for like they could with Shovel Knight.
Something about all of this just doesn't sit right, you have to admit that.
And the Inklings? I don't buy your position of "maybe they aren't as popular as the internet makes them out to be". Look at how many copies of Splatoon sold worldwide. If they can put Cloud and/or Corrin in the game for absolutely no reason, they sure as heck could have put the Inklings.
@Vandy What is wrong with a Final Fantasy rep? Final Fantasy I-VI were major games on Nintendo platforms and alongside Dragon Quest, were major reasons for Nintendo early dominance, especially in Japan.
I could maybe understand the argument that Cecil, Bartz, or Terra deserved to be in over Cloud due to their games debuting on Nintendo platforms, but to say the series as a whole does not deserve to be in Smash Bros is a ridiculous argument, especially when people want characters like Shovel Knight and Shantae in the game.
Not bashing those characters, but Final Fantasy is a much larger and more popular franchise then some series people want to see in Smash.
I'm not saying Final Fantasy doesn't have a part in Nintendo's history and I don't think you're intentionally skewing what I said, so I'll just clarify.
Cloud is probably the best choice if you're going to add a Final Fantasy rep. No problem with him being the "Final Fantasy Guy".
But why are we adding a Final Fantasy rep anyway? The series has largely ignored Nintendo platforms for the past decade. Adding to that, Cloud has never appeared in a mainline Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo platform.
I still maintain that the Inklings should have gone in before any of the people included in this newest wave of DLC.
@Vandy It's a fair enough argument, although there have been a good number of Final Fantasy spin-offs, remakes, and other titles in the series on Nintendo platforms.
The 3DS just got a new Final Fantasy game in the form of explorers.
To put it another way, there have been more Final Fantasy games on Nintendo platforms in the past decade then Street Fighter and Metal Gear.
But to be honest, I would have prefered if Dragon Quest had gotten in as Square Enix's rep given all the Dragon Quest games have been on Nintendo platforms at this point, IX and X were both on Nintendo platforms as exclusives, and for the past decade, Dragon Quest has found a lovely home on Nintendo's systems.
But it failed to get the nod due to Dragon Quest not being as big outside Japan.
I get what you're saying about the amount of Street Fighter and Metal Gear games too.
I do think, though, that Ryu and Snake feel more "at home" on Nintendo consoles than Cloud does, however. Especially given that the best Street Fighter games for the home console during the 16-bit era were on Super Nintendo. And the fact that Snake debuted on the NES.
And I do feel that Ryu and Snake are more unique than Cloud in terms of how they fight. Cloud would feel a bit better if there weren't already so many sword fighters with samey movesets. And as much as the small minority will dispute it, not many people have any clue who the hell Marth, Luncina, Roy, Ike and Corrin are whereas at least Cloud is recognizable outside of the niche Fire Emblem market. In fact, a lot of people have cited their inclusion in Smash Bros games as being the first time they've heard of them so that makes a strong case for your Dragon Quest inclusion.
If they were going to go with largely unknown characters, they could have chosen the Dragon Quest/Warrior series which is very much a "Nintendo" series. Even moreso than Final Fantasy, you could argue. So I definitely support your opinions on that one.
When I think of Smash in 3D I think of Pokken. I feel like Smash run could be turned into a 3D race for powerups then once that's over and it's time to fight revert back to the original smash mechanics.
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