Not too long ago, we reported on Totes the Goat, a side project of Renegade Kid's Jools Watsham. When he was discussing how the game came about, it was mentioned how the studio has a tough time getting good footing in the eShop. Although most Renegade Kid games have been fairly well received and advertised, some factor is just preventing them from really catching on with gamers. Unfortunately, the studio's latest release – Dementium Remastered – continued this trend, and things are beginning to look somewhat grim.
We Got This Covered recently conducted a short interview with Watsham to talk about Totes the Goat and the studio in general. When Dementium Remastered was brought up, Watsham didn't have very good news to share. The studio already had fairly low expectations for how it would perform on the eShop, but the game didn't even hit those sales expectations. Watsham went on to say that the studio may reconsider developing any games for the platform beyond the ones currently in development, as it's a problem if the profits just aren't there. Here's the quote:
The sales of Dementium Remastered have been very low so far. Much lower than I expected. My expectations were based on how our other games have sold, and as such were already quite conservative. I am very surprised that they are lower than my conservative projections. We will still continue with releasing the game in Europe and also release Dementium II Remastered, but the sales results definitely make us pause with future development on 3DS beyond Mutant Mudds Super Challenge and Treasurenauts, which is very unfortunate. In an ideal world, I would love to continue developing games for 3DS. It is my personal favorite console to play games on, but if we can't generate enough revenue from our games to cover the cost of 4 people with no office space, then something must change.
What do you think? Would you miss Renegade Kid's eShop releases? What do you think is the problem behind the studio's sales woes? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
[source wegotthiscovered.com]
Comments 121
Doesn't take an analyst to know that 3DS is not the proper console for a mature horror title.
Make better games
I feel like after Moon Chronicles he should've realized that people just want Renegade Kid platformers.
that sucks. dementium is fun and im happy to hear dementium 2 will still be a 3ds re release but i hope the new mutant mudds sells very well to keep renegade kid cranking out the new games for 3ds,
But I just haven't gotten around to getting it yet! Maybe this weekend... I will be picking it up though, mark my word(s).
I have personally had a lot of fun with Dementium Remastered! The environments are great in 3D but very disappointed about Treasurenauts being paused based on what Jools said. Was really looking forward to that game
[EDIT] I read it again and he said beyond Treasurenauts so I hope it is still coming!!
I have a great amount of respect for Jools. He seems like a really nice guy, and I do enjoy Kid Renegade's games...
But my thoughts about this entire situation go back to before they attempted the Kickstarter for Cult County. Everyone was hyped for Treasurenauts. It was coming on the heels of the similarly-styled Mutant Mudds, which was very well-received. I love it...
But then everything took a left turn. We expected Treasurenauts, but got Moon Chronicles. Then came Xeodrifter, a fairly brilliant and unexpected brain fart from the studio, but no word on Treasurenauts... Then we hear about Dementium 1 and 2 but still no Treasurenauts. Then we get news about another upcoming addition to Mutant Mudds before Treasurenauts finally arrives on the 3DS.
I just feel like they should've kept stoking the fire began by Mutant Mudds with the Treasurenauts release we expected a few years ago. It would've kept fans happy and willing to follow Renegade Kid into their other efforts. But instead they cooled off.
Surprise, surprise. It's the remake that nobody asked for. The first one didn't exactly sell all that well either, and aside from ironing out some of the design issues from the original game, this port looks otherwise identical to the original. These remakes have been in the works for so long that I've almost completely lost interest in them.
I was really looking forward to Dementium II back in the day. In fact, it was classified by the Australian Classification Board over SIX years ago, and was never released locally (quite an unwise waste of money for such a small company). I e-mailed South Peak games about it and they just told me to import it, but I wanted to support a local release if they were to go through the trouble of releasing it to the Australian market. I'm over it now. I've waited seven years just to play the sequel and after all this time they're feeding us the first freaking game again? No thanks.
I might download Mutant Mudds Super Challenge if/when that's released, but I'm so over the continued incompetence of Renegade Kid.
I would buy it at $30 physically, but to be honest here I think these guys have got very little coverage on this title this is the only site I've read about it on.
On eShop, at $15, the pricing on it is waaaay too high and this is coming from someone that has supported and bought every RK released game. It's an enhanced DS release. It'll probably do as great as other games when it reaches the sub $8 mark on sale and probably should've been released at around that price.
"Although most Renegade Kid games have been fairly well received and advertised, some factor is just preventing them from really catching on with gamers."
...And that factor is them repeatedly making unappealing games.
Example: Mutant Mudds - Play as an ugly pixel art rendition of a stupid dork and travel through a generic, uninspiring world, while battling bland enemies made of mud. Who'd of thought a game like that would put people off?
I think the problem is that between AAA and mobile people have been conditioned to pay $60 for a blockbuster and to expect everything else for free; there is no middle ground, which makes for a decidedly unhealthy market. I think the best thing that can happen for them given the realities of the market would be to go second party, like Next Level and Retro. With what they do with four employees and a minimal budget I think they could do very good things with funding (and the requisite expansion).
I love Dementium, Moon, Dementium II and ATV Wild Ride on my Nintendo DS, and they were the main reason why I decided to keep up with Renegade Kid news (which I have stopped doing). Next, they come onto the 3DS scene with what I feel is one of the more charming and simplistic platformers of this generation, on the Nintendo side: Mutant Mudds. What happens then? Oh, Bomb Monkey, which I happen to really like. Again, Renegade Kid seemed to have hit a chord with me with retro goodness.
They have changed quite a bit since though, with the exception of the release of Xeodrifter, focusing on re-updating several of their DS games. There was also an announcement of Cult County, which looked really cool, but again Mutant Mudds and that general retro push was what put RK on the map with the 3DS.
Along with that change, it seems like the retro titles, releases that look like they can be as great as Mutant Mudds potentially, are getting further and further away. Mutant Mudds Super Challenge? Treasurenauts? Treasurenauts? RK, just roll with those games please.
Sometimes I wonder if I should like mature/horror games to support the people who make them...and then I realize what exactly that would entail...
I still don't get the hype. But really, I'm a high fantasy kind of guy.
Nobody asked for this game. Treasurenauts will sell well because it actually looks neat. Tada, simple strategy for making games = make games people want.
@Miiamoto I agree with this sentiment. renegade kids game just DONT interest me... any other developer in this situation would be told to deal with it.
@WaveGhoul I'm sure they aren't a bad dev team - just misguided.
Dementium 2 haven't got that so might purchase if good
So they come on here with a threat if you dont buy their garbage shovelware they'll stop developing on 3DS!!! Vote with your $$$ folks and get something worth 14.99 like Terraria or something...
Dementium Remastered. Came. Out. Too. Late. I was hyped for Halloween since August by completing Resident Evil DS and RE: Revelations (3DS). I was watching Silent Hill (PSOne) 'Let's Play's on YouTube, AND I was looking forward to the release of Dementium Remastered. After October 31st, my interest in Survival Horror dwindled and I went back to playing other game genres. $14.99 is not a bad asking price for a better version of a DS game I never played. It looks like a decent Survival Horror experience and it would have sold like hotcakes had it been released during the Halloween-themed eShop. It would have gotten an icon front-row-centre as soon as you'd load up the eShop but October 31st came and went...I still plan on buying it, though.
I feel like Renegade Kid bit off more than they could chew. Xeodrifter, Moon Chronicles as an episodic release, Mutant Mudds Super Challenge, Dementium Remastered, and Treasurenauts (which is still MIA). Too many projects at one time.
I don't think they are bad as developers, they only have a bad marketing and a strange development schedule. I mean: People have been waiting for Treasurenauts for years, in the meantime they made 2 remastered. I would gladly buy moon chronicles and dementium but... I live in Europe. By the time it comes out here I'll probably forget about it.
I don't think they are bad as developers, they only have a bad marketing and a strange development schedule. I mean: People have been waiting for Treasurenauts for years, in the meantime they made 2 remastered. I would gladly buy moon chronicles and dementium but... I live in Europe. By the time it comes out here I'll probably forget about it.
@NImH 100% agree.
I like Renegade Kid and Jools a lot but a major problem with all three titles is pricing.
Xeodrifter is a fine game but $10 is a bit much for a side project that was completed in a few months. A $5 price would've made a huge difference considering the games length and short development cycle not to mention the well publicized fact that the games development greatly delayed the highly anticipated Treasurenauts. Something that fans were not happy about. The game should have been saved till after Treasurenauts release. It felt similar to Keiji Inafune trying to kickstart the Mega Man Legends spiritual successor before even releasing Mighty No. 9 (the game fans are still waiting for).
As for Moon and Dementium, both games are available in physical cart form on the DS cheaper than their digital forms and the 3DS is fully backwards compatible completely cutting the knees off of both games. The graphical upgrades are nice but not major considering they were already technical marvels on the original DS hardware. Moon wasn't helped by its crappy episodic pricing model (I have both the DS original and the first part of the 3DS version and I can say that it is not worth it to double dip).
If I were them, I would've taken a little more time and put Moon and the Dementium series on the Wii U, a machine that would've benefited far more from a Metroid style shooter and 2 survival horror shooters considering how starved that audience is for those types of games. Just a thought.
I would imagine a horror game would sell better released around Halloween, not Christmas. Just sayin
I expected as much!
It seems like they've just been trying to make a quick buck with a bunch of releases that aren't Treasurenauts.
I bought Mutant Mudds and loved it. I bought Xeodrifter and haven't played it. I haven't been interested in the other Renegade Kid games. I would buy Treasurenauts. Not even particularly interested in Mutant Mudds Super Challenge. The original game is already massive and difficult. Where's Treasurenauts?
@ Jools Watsham
I think it's because the majority of your audience don't want horror or FPS games in the 3DS at the moment. Make something more like Mutant Mudds with interesting characters. For me XeoDrifter didn't appeal because the character is too small and it doesn't have a character or interesting background/story. At least that's what I feel on the trailers and screen shots.
I really don't find their games appealing. They're competent, but uninspired.
If anything, they could try getting more, or rather different creative talent in their ranks.
It's a great game, and I bought it because I was very excited for it. But, I DO think it was priced too high. Don't get me wrong, I think they make great games that are a lot of fun and I don't like saying they don't deserve to charge a decent price for their product. But a DS game on Wii U is $9.99. I realize this is remastered version of a DS game and not a port. But it's not... sooooooo different that it's worth the 14.99 or, as it is here in Canada, 17.99. Yes I paid $20 for the game and I love it. But it was absolutely overpriced.
@sketchturner Resident Evil would like to have a word with you.
Its pretty simple Renegade Kid. you're games are focusing on a limited audience. Mutant Mudds could have been better if the game had mid checkpoints and health and more charm. The same goes to Xeodrifter.
Hang in there @Jools ! Maybe when everyone gets those Eshop credits for Christmas sales will pick up for Dementium. I had planned to get it then myself. Anyway I hope thats the case for the game. The 3d looks superb. I usually pass on blood, guts and gore but the 3d is luring me in on Dementium. I will miss Renegade Kid if we lose them. Hopefully thats not the case.
Problem is, that they want from re-release as much as from the original game. But this shouldn't be the way, how to develop GOOD games. They need to change way of thinking, not to stop great games from futher develop. Pooooor RK
I have to agree that a mature title, regardless of how much I like it, just isn't going to sell well on the 3ds. Moon chronicles and xeodrifter were let downs. Doesn't matter how much respect we have for the studio if they simply aren't making great games that people want to play or making the right kinds of games for their platform of choice. To all marketing errors on their part and mediocre titles really.
I think this studio really needs to get their house in order here and they need a reality check, release quality titles get the pricing correct and the sales will come.
The simple fact is everyone loved Mutant Mudds it launched at the correct time and at the correct price. They have since remastered two games that weren't commercial successes in the first place in Moon and Dementium, they screwed with Moon's release structure, priced them too high in my view and still haven't released either in Europe. They've put Treasurenauts on the backburner and are now looking to release another remaster for a sequel to a game they've just admitted hasn't sold well. I can't figure these guys out at all.
A lot of nagging from him recently. Stop 3ds development then. That game was not good enough. Have a sale on Xeodrifter instead!
Is Moon Chronicles out in Europe yet? Is Dementium? Is Treasurenauts? Thought so.
Thats because they missed out Europe
Should've made a wiiu version
"Would you miss Renegade Kid's eShop releases?"
Not particularly.
"What do you think is the problem behind the studio's sales woes?"
Well, let's look at their current & future(?) 3DS eShop line-up: ATV Wild Ride 3D, Moon Chronicles, Dementium: Remastered I & II, Mutant Mudds & Super Challenge, Planet Crashers, Bomb Monkey, Xeodrifter and Treasurenauts.
1. Mutant Mudds was their success story on the eShop. Right mixture of right quality & price? Right release at the right time? I'm not sure. Speaking for myself, it's the only game of theirs that I own...and the main reason why I bought it was because it was on sale during a time where sales weren't a regular thing. I think supporting that interested me about as much as the game (if not more). Come to think of it, I don't think I've even played it. beyond the demo. Huh. But maybe Super Challenge will be lightning striking twice. Then again, I can't think of too many sequels that get touted as more challenging than the original and end up being more successful, especially with a 3-4 year gap.
Fun fact: Moon Chronicles, Dementium I & II, ATV Wild Ride 3D represent 40% of their 3DS eShop output, and (in their original forms) consist of 100% of their Nintendo DS output. I get the appeal of unearthing lost gems, but when it represents nearly half of your output on a platform capable of playing the mostly similar originals...it might not make for the best business sense. Factor in the bungled 'episodic' release of Moon, the limited appeal of handheld horror (let alone trying it twice) and an ATV game...I'm just not entirely sure where the high expectations would come from. Also, I'm just going to mention Planet Crashers in this section, since it's their only other 3D game besides these four. I don't think even RK diehards have much else to say about it.
3. Bomb Monkey, Xeodrifter and Treasurenauts. Bomb Monkey is a puzzle game on a system that is Full. Full. Full. of puzzle games. Xeodrifter...is kind of a shame really. It's probably the one title that I can see as questionable in terms of low sales. Personally I haven't bought it since everything I've read about it suggests the playtime/price ratio is probably not quite ideal. Treasurenauts? I'm kind of presuming is barely in development, if at all. I think by the time Super Challenge comes out, that'll be the fourth game by them to come out since it was announced. Perhaps focusing on one thing at a time and making that thing actually stand out would be beneficial to Jools & Co.
But who knows, maybe his Goat-toting game is just what he needs? Guess we'll find out.
@Sandman89
Making a version that costs exponentially more for an even smaller userbase isn't the solution here.
They have no advertising at all. They need to actually let people know the game exists, for a start, if they want it to sell.
I feel like Xeodrifter is Jools's best game, so I want more of that if nothing else, thanks.
@Linkstrikesback expensive but cool just imagine it, we've played this game on ds before needed something different
How much DID he expect a re-release of a DS horror game to sell as digital only on a platform known for colorful upbeat games about charming characters?
I'm not saying they shouldn't expect to have sales, because Dementium are good games, but I'd consider it a tough sell everything considered. Even looking to the genre fans, Dementium just isn't a new game, and even states so in the title, so their level of excitement hasn't exactly been going through the roof.
That said, I'm sure the people you ARE purchasing the and playing the game for the first time are enjoying it very much.
Hopefully Jools and company will experience much better sales with the new Mutant Mudds and Treasurenauts, and won't have to cease development for the system.
Sales worst because that is too hard to beat the Bosses!!!
I lost all my faith in Renegade Kid when they didn't launch Treasurenauts. Plus, that Cult Count betrayal.
I won't buy anything from them until, maybe, Treasurenauts (I think that this game is vaporware).
And I've bought Bomb Monkey in Day 1!!!
I might be alone on this but, honestly I think 90% of their games are extremely overrated and subpar. Not everything they make is bad, I really do enjoy MOON (even if it's not a great game) but the fact is most of their stuff lacks any sort of depth and the gameplay lacks polish. Plus with all these flops like Cult County, and releasing MOON as an episodic experience (when it very clearly wasn't designed to be like that) have hurt my opinion of them even worse. They need to buckle down and make a great game, and maybe it'll sell. Maybe.
I don't really care for most horror games and the only ones I enjoy are the absolute greatest ones with a brilliant story and atmosphere, so Dementium was never going to appeal to me.
When I see the pictures for Dementium, it just looks cheap and generic at first glance, and it puts me off it. Either the price needs to be reduced, or they need to do a better job at showing why it's worth the price.
@Voodoo It's hardly a threat, just reality. No company would continue to sell products in a particular shop if they weren't going to make money from it. They want to add games to the eshop but they won't be able to if they don't get the needed sales.
I beaten the original game in October once again, I would get this, but not so soon unless they added some content like a survival mode or something, there is new difficulties yes...however that's something I wouldn't consider a item seller unless you didn't have the original and such.
That's a shame. I have great memories of Dementium back on the DS Lite and made sure to grab this day one. Not sure why everyone is saying its not a good game because i really like it! Sure, some aspects are slightly dated but the 3D is awesome and the game is creepy. Holds up pretty well in my opinion. Those who are on the fence should give it a shot!
"I feel like after Moon Chronicles he should've realized that people just want Renegade Kid platformers."
This.
Why don't they release all their games in Europe? I'm still waiting for ATV Wild Ride 3D and I would probably buy Dementium if they released that here too.
A remaster for a game that not many people cared about sold badly
im actually shocked, now you are going to tell me that grass is green ? WHAT IT IS ?
they must be joking right ?
Bought it!
Played it.
Stuck at the stupid Bees/Flys/Faces things. I get killed within a second of opening the door every time!
Waste of freaking money!
Well I hate to see any dev struggle selling games, but most of his games don't interest me. Mutant Mudds was decent, and Xeodrifter, both of which I own on 3DS and Wii U.
I do think he should focus on those types of games, and maybe step up the A game to make something even more complex and more polished. It's a risky move, sure, but gamers like production value.
@Voodoo
Threat? It's reality. No dev is going to keep flushing money down the crapper on a platform where nobody buys their games.
A threat involves making a demand. Nowhere in that statement did he say "people better buy my games or else this". No, it's a simple statement of fact. Games aren't selling, and if it continues we're pulling support from the platform.
Releasing a game nobody asked for, on a platform that doesn't match the game, during the holiday season when it's competing with every major AAA release and a slew of other really good Indies like Steamworld, Fast Racing Neo, Minecraft, and Terraria, and yeah, your game won't sell well. As noted above, I find their games technically sound, but profoundly boring. I don't even know if I'll buy other games from them based on positive reviews, since I found Mutant Mudds profoundly boring and bland. I feel like they were used to being one of the only indie games in town on Nintendo platforms, and now that there's a ton of competition and great releases they're pulling out. Which, for me, is no loss. I feel like they need to make a game with some actual character to it, and a protagonist people can actually get engaged with, not just "Generic Pixel Guy #572940." Thomas Was Alone made a series of rectangles engaging, and it was made by one guy, so it shouldn't take more than RK could handle if they had the right people and actually tried.
@sketchturner A mature horror title? I had this on DS and it was an average, run of the mill title. Certainly not worth more than £3.99. The 3DS version is remaster of that same game so I knew it wouldn't sell.
I don't know why Renegade Kid price themselves out of the market. All their games are average and generic with a high price tag. What gives? They'll find IOS and Android owners will be just as unreceptive to their games.
@sonicmeerkat thats a good point. also, their placement on the eshop has not been the best. a good, front page placement can make a lot of difference in sales.
You have to do what is necessary to keep your business healthy and RK is struggling right now. It almost seems like they are having an identity problem. Based on the comment section, it seems like Treasurnauts would sell well, but the Internet isn't a reliable place to do market research. I'm sure they have put a ton of work into their efforts and the lack of sales is probably a bitter pill to swallow. I wish them well and hope they find their niche.
Moon Chronicles was bad, but in general, I'm a huge fan of their games. I'll give it a download when I get home from work today. I know my one purchase won't change anything, but they always say "Vote with your dollar," so I'll do my small part to support them.
Moon Chronicles was really really bad, I would never buy a game from the same team (if made in the same 3d style as this one).
1/10 review at Destructoid and pricing would be enough to scare newcomers away.
I'm guessing even The Letter on wii-u has sold more than that
I got it. Should have been ten bucks. Also should have released it on the Wii U too, with 15 for cross buy. Guaranteed to help sales
Let's be honest here. What was he expecting for an M rated game on the 3DS... even more so when the game overall was not really that great.
That's not great, but I have to be honest and say that it's lacking a little in a couple of important graphical and presentation areas, and I think that probably made it a tough choice for a lot of people based on only seeing it in screens and footage. It's hard to create all-round masterpieces when you're just a tiny little developer working on very tight budgets--I should know (and I'm even less fortunate than Jools).
I'd say Renegade Kid's games often suffer from many of the same issues my games do: Not artistically and visually compelling as they really need to be in today's market--and I don't mean in terms of being high budget AAA visuals but more in terms of getting the art/design spot-on and being as polished as it can be. Missing those extra little touches and refinements that the best games have can be very determental. Look at the lack of animation, reaction, hit indicators (both visuals and audio), death animations, and other stuff like that on the enemies alone. Gamers intuitively need that kind of stuff, even in smaller indie games. They want to see the enemy displaying clear damage indicators when they get hit, taking a slightly knock, and then falling over onto the floor when they die (and ideally laying around for a little while before disappearing too). No sound when they get hit and just instantly vanishing when they are dead is not satisfying, and a large part of the game is about hitting and killing these bad guys. It totally destroys any suspension of disbelief that the rest of the game's world might have created if this stuff looks weak. And it's a shame, because the general level design stuff looks pretty cool, and I presume is even more impressive when viewing it in proper 3D.
I have all those kinds of issues with my games too, where they just feel like they're lacking all the finer details--I can't even get basic Facebook and Twitter integration into my Apps when people get High Scores for example, so I have no social media type sharing aspect to my games, which would surely help a lot more people see them--but I'm just one guy, and I'm not a particularly great artist or programmer, so I have an excuse. With just one additional artist and programmer, like Renegade Kid has, I know I could turn my/their currently good games into great games. And I think Jools needs to push for that extra layer of polish and refinement in the graphics and presentation too with most of his games.
It's the polish and refinement that I think is needed in some of Renekid's games above anything else, and I think with that its games would see more success in general by virtue of having more appeal and generating gamer interest alone--never mind all the other reasons a game might or might not sell.
@sketchturner My thoughts too. How can they make a blanket statement like, well, this genre didn't sell well, so we're gonna stop making all games on the 3DS. Seems like a scare tactic to drive up sales.
@PanurgeJr Yeah, I really do think that is a big problem. I mean, everyone these days expects all games outside of huge AAA releases to be free or basically peanuts, but how do they expect the developers to actually pay the bills? It's a tough situation to be in, and all these online stores, or whatever, are all skewed towards making those who are already popular and rich even more popular and rich while everyone else struggles at the bottom feeding on the scaps. I don't expect a company like Renegade Kid to get rich off its games but it's a real shame if they are actually struggling just to keep paying the wages basically.
I think Renegade Kid makes good games, but I think using Moon, Xeodrifter, and Dementium as barometers are kind of misleading. I mean, they know what numbers they need to reach to cover dev costs and pay salaries, but doing this with two DS rereleases with minimal improvements isn't exactly the best way to go about achieving that goal. I think the old 2D retro look of Mutant Mudds might be getting a little played out too, which might have affected Xeodrifter. We'll see if it affects Mutand Mudds, though that game has a solid following from the first game.
Personally, they shouldn't have released a Game like this so close too Christmas. I think that Sales will most likely pick up a little later this Month at around Christmas Day.
I can get both of the original DS games from GameStop for $8 total. That's if you ignore that many 3DS owners were likely DS owners who already own/played both.
Add to that the subpar remastering, they really shouldnt have expected much.
i still want to try this game but I do believe they should have timed the release better to be before halloween. I'm a fan of survival horror but I have not read enough about the game to convince me to get it over other games like fast racing neo or steamworld heist (haven't gotten them yet but I plan to). If I have spare money one day I will get it.
Yes, and I know why... The game is not that good. I played it maybe 3 hours back years ago on my DS. It got really frustrating as the bosses were not good and it was boring and frustrating to find enemies respawn... I feel like it was a bad game then and now.
1.make better quality games 2. do not region lock the entire world outside of america especially when you are just porting old games which already existed on ds in different regions 3. don't moan about it nobody gives me sympothy in my job and nobody will in yours either 4. if you cannot make appealing games for 3ds where else are you going to do it because it won't be cheaper or easier , Don't blame the platform
5. The rest of europe outside UK can mostly speak fluent English far better than most Americans so don't use the translation costs as an excuse when subtitles will easily cover the language barrier if you put a bit of effort into it , Most non english speaking countries are already used to subtitled or dubbed international media but it doesn't stop them from buying a product.
It's too bad because I really liked Dementium, and I find this remaster pretty great. Should've come out closer to Halloween, however. And I'm glad they still have Dementium II in the works at least because I never got to play the original DS version.
One last thing , Half the userbase are too young to buy the game anyway and mums and dads won't buy a game for their kids called dementium the ward it already sounds pretty disturbing just in the title alone.
This is the same guy who moaned about Euro sales a few months back,Maybe if they actually release their games in Europe on the same day,When you don't you then open up more problems for yourself for example when Xeodrifter finally came out in Europe it had already had a few 50% off sales in America making me and I'm sure a few others think if I hold off a sale is bound to happen,And don't tell me it's not possible as both Image&Form and Hörberg Productions(1 guy!) prove,Now don't get me wrong I really enjoy RKs games and have bought all except the above mentioned Xeodrifter day 1 and hope they continue on 3ds.
Hasn't it been out for only two weeks? They released a relatively pricey digital-only game around Christmas when people are focused on buying gifts... I'm not surprised it isn't doing well. Also, why isn't there a demo or something up for it?
And to make matters worse for them, when these games do eventually get released in Europe, no one will care... The games have got poor scores on Metacritic and review sites if I remember correctly.
Their games come out years later over here...(if at all) long after we've all read the reviews, and with a fairly big price tag. Honestly, I think their best bet is releasing the games for about £3-5.
I'd like to get these games, but I expect the price will be high enough to put me off. I know these games are a few hours of entertainment then I'll likely never play them again.
I'm trying to say - for the kinda money they're after, I'm expecting either A) a much longer game experience or B) a much better one.
It's ashame they are a good little studio and do some good games but they don't release enough games in Europe or at the time as NA which could be affected there sales.
These guys have been whining lately, after being pretty loyal.
Not sure what they're expecting. I'm actually interested in buying this game but if they keep this attitude up I won't.
Game scores 59 on Metacritic. Destructoid awarded it 10/100.
Improving should be their goal.
I don't usually care that much about reviews but this is Destructoid's verdict of the game: "That is two and a half hours of my life I'll never get back.... The Worst - One of my least favorite games ever. Just thinking about it is upsetting. I am upset." It's not about being a MATURE game, it's about people scared that it is a CRA**Y mature game.
@dumedum I will never understand articles like this one. It's not a state secret that bad games generally have poor sales.
Mutant Mudds is one of my most regretted purchases on 3DS. It brings nothing new to the table.
How was anyone supposed to know that a remaster of an old DS game was going to be available right now? They also missed the Halloween sale period, so they basically missed their chance on this one. Also, as others have said, too many recipes going on at once in the kitchen. It's like a team of 4 cooks trying to make a set of full course meals for a table of 20, they're fumbling over each other, and they're struggling to organize how to arrange the appetizers while rushing the entrees.
If you can't handle more, focus on ONE thing at a time. There are thousands of businesses that have closed down for failing to observe the age old mantra of "don't bite off more than you can chew."
@PanurgeJr
You nailed it. The death of the mid-tier publishers of the late 2000 decade is spreading into the lowest common denominator mobile model of the post 2010 era...now it's massive budget, CPU straining open world games for $60 with another $30 to get the complete game (sorry..."season pass") or it's a free game you download the day you hear about it, and it's forgotten next week.
I also have to roll my eyes when developers make un-appealing games and then cry when they don't sell well. Well...if you aren't going to make new games I'm interested...I'm not going to miss you that much, really.
How about this: You are not entitled to my loyalty or dollars, Renegade Kid. However, if you make games I want...you will have my dollars. Understand?
Ok, I'll just say it. Why would I play a horror FPS game on a system without dual analog sticks when I have Doom 3 sitting on my PS3?
If they really wanted to get people to buy this game, then put it out on the Wii U, PS3, PS4,Vita, Xbox 360, or Xbox One!
Systems that have proper control schemes to support this kind of game. Bad controls is the main reason why I never got into Ironfall and I don't see this game being any better on the 3DS. I played the original on the DS, and touch screen FPS controls are horrible. I don't see it being any better.
And if they honestly wanted to change my mind on this, then offer a demo. This goes for any developer. If you want me to take a chance on a game, offer a demo for me to try.
Especially if your game is digital only and can't be rented from a Redbox.
I expect Jools is reading these comments. I always appreciated how much he shared on his blog in the old days and in interviews now. Mutant Mudds on WiiU was entertaining. Needed a couple more enhancements to movement and animation, but it was good. Now then. About the latest releases. Moon Chronicles's episodic rollout was a media nightmare. Further, games are way too advanced, and too many people have played HD FPSs at this point, for the level of detail in Moon Remastered and Dementium Remastered to cut it. They just don't make the grade, graphically. Not that I want to play an FPS on the 3DS. But if I did, RE Revelations has set the bar (I that's not technically first person, but it's close). So do something you can master. Perhaps Totes the Goat is that.
You people need to take more risks on the eshop. Renegade Kid makes great games, they're like the Platinum Games of the Indie Scene, great games and low sales. The reason why indie games sell so low is because nobody gives them a chance
It came out when I'm busy buying other people gifts. I've got it on my wishlist, along with Fast Racing Neo. Only reason I'm playing Xenoblade X early is because it was given to me early. Honestly, I'd rather play a game like Dementium in HD on my Wii U. I've got enough little games on my 3DS, and just about all of them are ignored for Xenoblade, as I'm on hiatus from MH4U, and recently beat TFH with its extra content. RK games are fantastic, but look at Rayman Legends and Yoshi's Wooly World. I know its a small studio, but this is what Mutant Mudds and someday Treasurenauts will compete with.
Also. This is personal, I sold my entire Sega Dreamcast collection to a new video game store in town. I used the money to get my dad and family up north a Wii U. I gave them some of my better games that I'm not playing too. Things are tight.
It's just not an appealing game. Simple.
EDIT: And I say has a big survival horror fans who preordered both Dementium games for DS and played through them eagerly. They offer simply serviceable gameplay (the second is much better) with crude music, awkward cinematics, and somewhat embarrassing stories.
Horror isn't my bag, baby.
@NImH
Good post. I've been waiting for Treasurenauts all these years. Other than Xeodrifter, I don't care about the other releases/news since.
Should have just went and do Treasurenauts instead of re-relasing older games. People want Treasurenauts, no wonder they don't get the sales they need. I'm still waiting on any of the games to come out in Europe.. all we got so far is Xeodrifter.
Well, Dementium Remastered stands out on 3DS b/c survival horror is rare on this platform. Even if it is just serviceable survival horror without too much character, it still stands out. I would even encourage the dev to remaster it further for Playstation systems and optimize it for the twin stick controller, especially the PS Vita which has twin sticks and survival horror is scarce for it at the moment. I would do what the above dev mentioned and add enemy reaction animations and sounds when the player is beating the pulp out of it.
I encourage the dev not to stop there and keep going to make Dementium even better. Hell, there's a window left open by Konami and their incredible axing of Silent Hills. Sir Watsham and his team should strike while the iron is hot (and new Silent Hill games are lacking) by releasing a new-and-improved patch for 3DS and the full game optimized for Playstation. There's no love lost if it becomes no longer a Nintendo-exclusive.
Remember back when Renegade Kid proposed a DS Silent Hill to Konami and they went ahead and made a survival horror game anyway when they were rejected? Well, I say make it even better and make it a true competitor to Silent Hill and take advantage of Konami's foibles See, RK already had the determination to release Dementium, so why not go further with it?
It seems to me this game is on the wrong platform. Who wants to play underpowered horror games on the 3DS. It can't compete with Resident Evil and even then that's not a game many indie gamers are interested in. I know Xeodrifter apparently didn't do that great and that's too bad since it was rather enjoyable, but Xeodrifter was also quite expensive for what it was.
I wonder why the Europe versions haven't been released yet? Shouldn't Renegade Kid release their titles worldwide before threatening its players? O_o
I think RK is simply not setting priorities well. Moon and Dementium were fine DS games, but never had that much success or acclaim besides being technically impressive. Remaking these games for the 3DS is shooting for a small market, and releasing them on Steam and whatnot only invites negative comparisons with games made for PC-tier hardware. Even Resident Evil: Revelations on HD platforms got flak due to its origins as a 3DS game, let alone a DS game.
Mutant Mudds shouldn't have been killed or anything, but it's weird how RK's biggest hit is only getting a remixed version four years later. Games like Mighty Switch Force and Gunman Clive got "true" sequels in just two or three years, and I think they did fairly well.
The best reason I can think of about Mutant Mudds not getting a sequel would be a lack of ideas for the series. Which would be understandable, but considering how the series was conceived as a 3D platformer, I doubt they're out of concepts. If anything, I'd guess Mutant Mudds 3D (not actual title) would have an easier art direction to make assets for than RK's DS remakes, though the environments would likely be more complex and expansive.
And maybe I'm wrong, but 3D platformers with cartoon heroes are a genre that is not common on the eShop but is still a good fit.
Last, localization. A lot of these games aren't being released in Europe. I've heard of this problem from a few indies, and am starting to think Nintendo deserves some blame, but the fact is that Europe is a market worth aiming for.
If I can give two heads up to Jools since he will probably read every post here with it having more than 100 comments.
Please try to price the games under $10 as that falls within the impulse purchase on digital store fronts.
Secondly, while I enjoyed Mutant Mudds and Xeodrifter I would of found them more accessible if they allowed for custom button settings as I prefer the NES style controls as opposed to SNES style. Renegade Kid's 3D games seem to offer multi settings can you please try to do this for the excellent 2D offerings?
Thank you for reading my thoughts and I wish Renegade Kid nothing but success on your games.
I love all of RK's work and reading this really does make me sad. Dementium Remastered is great and although it is for a system that normally doesn't compliment horror games, the immersive 3D definitely helps. People shouldn't dismiss the game so quickly.
And I can't wait for Mudds Super Challenge and Treasurenauts.
I'm not sure why Dementium did so poorly, but I'm sure it has something to do with how generic the game felt. I got it, and would definitely say I enjoyed it, but absolutely nothing memorable happened. You play as a generic character in an abandoned hospital and fight off monsters. All stuff I've seen dozens of times in previous game.
The problem here is that they need to do something to give Dementium an identity, some character to set it apart from the rest.
@Kilroy same here. All the ripping in this thread is sad indeed.
I'm not surprised by low sales, as good as this game was/is, it really could have used dual analog. I hope they don't give up on the 3DS as they are quite talented
I bought it.
@PORYGON thanks. I just really feel that RK is making simple mistakes in their business decisions... The strange timing and sudden nature of some of their development announcements seem like the choices of one person without counsel.
It's a bummer because unlike some here, I feel that their efforts are obvious in the finished product. I really hope they don't abandon Nintendo systems.
Jools Waltham is a whiny so so, The game has had poor reviews, why would we buy it?
He also has no idea about marketing. I remember his hissy fit on Twitter about Europeans not buying Xeodrifter. A game that's basically reskinned Mutant Mudds that was announced as being out in Europe (after countless delays) during the Nintendo E3 conference when no one was paying attention to it. We were looking at puppets and Zelda!
I've seen the guy personally attack people on Twitter for criticising his games and it makes me want to never buy a Renegade Kid game again.
Imo RK is a mediocre indie dev and I think as time goes on it becomes easier to see.
Was anyone ever interested in the game anyway?
$15 is too much to ask for a remaster. If this drops to $10, I may pick it up.
If the game was cheaper, I'd think about buying it. The thing is, I bought the first and second one on the DS and kind of enjoyed it. I was a bit let down with the first one, expecting.. I don't know. A bit more. The second one got me excited thinking they fixed what I didn't like about the first one, but I never even got around to finishing it. I thought it was cool to see a 3d remastered version, but it's tough when the game wasn't too great to begin with. Especially since I lost my job and only have a budget of maybe 10 dollars a month to spend on games now. I feel bad for these guys, but if they made like.. A brand new Dementium or something, that would have been cool. As for the moon chronicles, I ended up buying the first chapter on the 3ds and didn't find it to be any better than the ds version which, I hate to say, bored the heck out of me. It was even given to me free as a download code from a friend who didn't want it and I ended up deleting it shortly after realizing it was just as boring.
Sad to hear this. I like Renegade Kid as a developer very much. I personally think video games may very well be the most competitive market in the world. This is the primary reason that it is difficult to have a hit.
Renegade Kid needs to stick to 2D. The visuals and gameplay for his 2D games are great, and something fans like to see. Mutant Mudds was suppose to have a 3D game on the DS too, and it never turned out. Seems all the problems lie in 3D.
@TheAceofMystery Lol. Renegade are definitely NOT the Platinum of the Indie Scene.
Platinum make excellent, highly creative games. Renegade make distinctly average, generic games that are overpriced.
How dare you disrespect the many talented and creative Indie devs by bestowing such praise on one who has no such traits.
I am going to be sick.
If they complain about lack of sales, why don't they make all their games available in more countries. I find it hard to feel sorry for them if I cant buy their games anyway. We still cant get Moon Chronicles in the UK as far as I am aware let alone the dementium remaster.
What did they expect? You can buy both games in MIB condition for 50% less.
Isn't it kind of their own fault? It's a minimalist remaster of a game they brought out on the DS, same with Moon as well. You're asking good coin for a game you can get for far less with just some lesser quality visuals being that they're DS titles. Perhaps try being creative and make a new game, then complain if it sells awful. I'll straight up admit it, I avoided this game and Moon because they were digital only and more expensive than reasonable in my book because of them being remasters of an existing title that isn't even all that old.
Too hard and too expensive (being a remastered DS game) doesn't make for a great publicity...
I think the issue is less with the platform and more with the game not being particularly interesting.
@Caryslan get a New 3DS.
I really don´t get the hate. As someone who played the original back in 2007 I´m really happy with my purchase. It controls waaaaaay better than with the old directional cross and the wider screen really helps to the presentation.
The old Dementium games are kinda rare to see where I live and it kinda makes me angry that so many people live in an echo chamber. I mean you guys keep saying that it´s not the right platform, does that mean that people should only release kiddy games for nintendo hardware?
Cmon guys...
I enjoyed dementium remastered. 3ds has almost no games in this genre. It has the absolutely incredible resident evil Revelations....and that's it for big studio horror types. I knew what to expect (and not expect) going in. I had briefly seen the original on ds once and knew it was a one note type game. That being said they play the hell out of that one note. It's creepy, like actually creepy and unsettling, almost the entire time. In the dark alone with head phones and this game really delivers, albeit for only 6 or so hours. But it's an experience I would absolutely recommend for a 3ds owner who likes unbelievably creepy hallways. Replay value is it's main downfall, when u already know what lurks in the dark it's not quite the same. Game runs super smooth, very little load times, comes off both well polished and rough at the same time somehow. The flashlight effects were downright impressive but when switched off the darkness did not resemble at all what actual darkness should be, more like a black fog. A few doors had bizarre continuity if u backtrack thru them they take you to the incorrect location usually a room or 2 past where it shld be. Most ppl won't notice glitches like that but they are there if u want to find them. Also discovering or finding items earlier than the game expects can lead to weird problems. All in all this is worth playing, once. 6/10
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