It's fair to say that this month's Twilight Princess HD announcement left hardcore Zelda fans on different sides of the fence. Some were happy to see such a title receive a HD makeover, while others were distraught at the arguable lack of a visual overhaul. Although the game's aesthetics have certainly been improved in the footage shown (made even more apparent by direct comparison videos), it definitely wasn't anything like the Wii U tech demo footage we've all been drooling over since E3 2011. Sure, that degree of a facelift may be asking for too much, but it can't be ignored that many were left with sour tastes in their mouths - even though the Wolf Link amiibo is to die for no matter which way you cut it.
With that out of the way, YouTuber Tomoya Hamasaki has been working on his own version of Twilight Princess HD - which was in development before Nintendo's announcement - and it's really quite something. Since posting his first video in early October, he's gained quite the following and now has a team working with him to complete the project. Most of his videos are lengthy streams of him and his team working on the project (accompanied by stunning progress footage), each one revealing more additions to the recreation than the last.
Speaking exclusively to Nintendo Life, Hamasaki claims to have started the project as an April Fools' joke. However, after meeting an individual he calls "the graphics guy", he realised his somewhat ambitious task was actually very possible - especially due to possessing his own skill in texture art. Before long, a team of two evolved into a dedicated group consisting of programmers, game designers, musicians, and the like. We then asked him why he chose Twilight Princess as his game of choice, to which he responded:
Twilight Princess was too ambitious for the hardware at the time. The game had vast landscapes with nothing to do in them, the difficulty was too easy for many, and the wolf form felt like a sequence rather than a mechanic that is important to the game - such as the transformation masks in Majora's Mask. There are many other issues with the game, but those were the most important ones.
For the tech-savvy, we asked what software his team is using to work such magic:
Mainly the textures and graphical effects like screen space ambient occlusion (SSAO), depth of field (DoF), crepuscular rays, motion blur, distant fog, and many upcoming effects like dynamic shadows, reflections, global illumination, and HD models (including map design). Gameplay and engine changes are done through C+ and Assembly. Texture work is done using Photoshop CS6 for environments and PaintTool SAI for characters. The upcoming HD models and animations are done through 3DS Max and Blender. Ishiiruka is the emulator that emulates the Twilight Princess GameCube ISO and provides the modern graphical enhancements.
The likelihood of Nintendo shutting down the entire project is a lingering thought shared by most of us (given that this recently happened with the Super Mario 64 HD fan project), and so we asked Hamasaki's views and plans should this unfortunate situation become a reality:
I'm not concerned since this project is basically heavily modding the ISO and emulation. Our project is just going to be a huge patch that requires you to own the physical copy of the game (either GameCube or Wii). If we receive a C&D (cease and desist), let's just say the project will finish one way or another.
Hamasaki went on to say that Nintendo's announcement of their own Twilight Princess remaster did not alter his team's vision, but instead would motivate them to work harder. In fact, his team have extravagant future plans for the project:
The new lighting system is definitely something we want to inject. Hyrule Field is another issue we want to fix; making it more vast and bursting with content. After the graphics and important issues are fixed, we plan on polishing the game with new gameplay mechanics and creating a whole new dungeon (perhaps more than one).
So in fact, this project is more than just a HD buff, which alone is very impressive so far - Hamasaki and his team are planning on adding new features and improvements into the game.
Do you like what you see here? Is this more of the high-definition remake you were expecting to see during Nintendo's reveal, or are you happy with what we received? As always, sound-off below!
[source youtube.com]
Comments 121
Now before you compare the official TP HD...
The official Twilight Princess HD will run on the limitations and features of the Wii U hardware. Nintendo and Tantalus will be adding gamepad support, amiibo support, miiverse support, and whatever unannounced features they'll be adding which will use some of the Wii U's processing power.
Also the E3 Tech demo? It's a confined demo. Of course it can run better than a full fledge game that requires more variables running on the background. (See Watchdogs in-game reveal trailer, The Witcher 3 trailer, and some other AAA games that didn't live up when they were released to their reveal trailer)
It could also mean that they are using different game designs and/or engines which will have different performances on the Wii U hardware. I don't think Nintendo is remaking TP HD from the ground up.
Looks pretty decent. I still think Nintendo is going to put some more time into their own HD version and it will be better than most think.
Now that's what I call an HD remake! Not only does the environment have generally better visuals, but many textures were redone instead of upscaling them. And their ambitions with the actual gameplay sweeten this deal even more!
These folks are beating Nintendo at their own game, and I, for one, am very happy about that!
Glad the article mentioned the E3 demo. Nintendo never seems to learn.
And I'm still waiting for my Japanese zen garden game. Has any game on the Wii U looked even slightly remotely like those graphics? Bait and switch.
I swear. Didn't you guys post an article just like this one, yesterday? Although it had a different title.
These guys are doing a fantastic job, though I'm sure Nintendo's final product will end up being good as well. I for one, am excited to see how both turn out.
If these guys really have the ability to design an all-new, proper Zelda dungeon then I kinda feel like they are wasting their talents on this. Like, maybe make your own game? Just spitballin' here.
If you thought the newest Zelda game, or even worse, a remake of an old one would look as good or better than the tech demo at E3, you're pretty delusional, have a short memory, or are very young. At Spaceworld in 2000, Nintendo showed that awesome looking tech demo of Link and Ganondorf fighting, and everyone practically had a heart attack, and then we got WW.
Obviously WW and that demo look different, and Zelda U and TP HD look just as different from the tech demo as WW did back then. Plain and simple, never expect Zelda tech demos to look remotely like the finished product, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
I started following this project a couple weeks ago. It's incredible what they are accomplishing, beating Nintendo at their own game thus far without excuses. Granted, they will have the significant advantage of Dolphin integration for the highest settings, and Ishiiruka is a custom tool that may pioneer the way for other games to be remastered by fans in this way. Nevertheless, after listening and watching their November 10th stream, I'm convinced that these guys can pull it off: putting the official remake to shame. They seem like decent folks, and they aren't braggarts or drama queens, so hopefully the growing team won't meet any impediments.
It's also worth noting that two other completely seperate projects for Twilight Princess HD have also been done. One is by InsaneSlug, whose TP HD project was finished a couple years ago, and quite frankly has already proven that this type of project can be done, and may even be better left to the fans than Nintendo themselves. Another is by Victor Rosa, although his project is a work in progress, and is mostly a texture pack buff, similar (but not the same) as InsaneSlug's work. Tomoya's project is more ambitious than either of these two, although he will have the advantage of working with a team. It's unbelievably difficult to do everything yourself, so the previous two, both of whose works are immediately available to download and apply to Dolphin right now, have still made huge accomplishments by themselves.
Hopefully the experience gained from projects like this will spur others on in the future! It's exciting to see Nintendo software continue to be so mod friendly (which is explained on the November 10 stream, around the time the Argorok battle is demoed), and I look forward to the continuation of such projects!
I like this better than Nintendo taking a shot. We all know the Wii U's hardware specs, but this modification is being built by a PC user with modding, I'll take the PC skills and modding all day. Not the cramped specs the Wii U has.
@Stu13 The hands-on lessons they learn from these efforts will build the foundation for a new game project to be possible, if they so desire. Or, they could move onto another game to redux. It's up to them.
Looks equally crap. Which is excusable for a team of randomers.
@Dezzy One must keep in mind that the entire game is not being rebuilt from scratch, and the landscape is not being upended for a new one (and probably can't be by anyone other than Nintendo, especially from a legal standpoint). Most of the changes are from improved or added effects, and replaced texture packs. There's only so much one can do with hard coded limitations; creating new dungeons by itself is an ambitious task.
@PlywoodStick Excuses, excuses ;p
Let's not forget this "fan project" is optomised to run on expensive PCs. I think I'll wait for the HD release.
@Dezzy So a bunch of people devoted their waking lives to something out of pure love of the franchise, and you go about saying "Looks like crap."
I agree with @Splatburst. Show me the fan made HD remake running on the Wii U hardware then I'll be impressed.
" it definitely wasn't anything like the Wii U tech demo footage we've all been drooling over since E3 2011"
NintendoLife is reaching new levels of stupidity.
@FierceRagnar A remake that doesn't simply "remake" the game, but also improves the graphical output to at least 720p levels of detail (which is a bit difficult to clearly define, admittedly). Not every remake is automatically HD, after all (see StarFox 64 3D or Ocarina of Time/Major'as Mask 3D for examples).
A gigantic waste of time for everybody, lawyers included.
How much anyone wants to bet Nintendo will take this down like the Super Mario 64 HD project?
I actually hope Nintendo releases something like this in March. Looks really nice.
@PlywoodStick Fair enough. But this just seems way too public and legally iffy for a teaching tool. It would take a fool to not be able to recognize the talent and dedication on display here, so it seems like a huge shame that this'll likely be shut down.
@Aromaiden It's good, though! (Or maybe I'm just easily impressed...? )
The bump mapping and specular lighting do look great on this fan remake. Perhaps Nintendo will note what is working here (and what's not), and implement some of it into the Tantalus port.
Honestly, though, I'm happier if Nintendo simply does an "HD-version" of the game, rather than a fully fledged "remake". I wouldn't want resources being diverted from new projects to overhaul old ones.
A spit shine is all I'm after (but I wouldn't mind a few new textures in place of upscaled ones in key places). I personally liked the "over-bloomed" look of Wind Waker HD, so a heavier hand with the lighting gimmicks could help TPHD look a little more like a remake - when it's obviously just a remaster.
@Kaze_Memaryu On his streams, Tomoya has confirmed that the finished product will run at a full 1080p. (And 30 FPS, because TP was optimized for it, and weird stuff happens at 60 FPS.) He even went into detail about how they're doing just that in the November 10 stream, while they were brainstorming in Hyrule Field.
A helluva lot better than that overpriced crap Nintendo is putting out. Though, nowadays Nintendo has just been shoving out hastily put together releases, so if course a passion project from a group of fans will look better than a freaking cash grab.
Aaaaand that's how it's done. If you're gonna shut them down Nintendo, at least hire them 1st. Nintendo you've seem to have become as casual in the development of your titles as the casuals you were/are so eager court. Try harder. Or others will do it for you and subsequently show you how it's done.
How will I be able to get my hands on this when it finally releases? What system will I use to play it? Is this "patch" downloadable to my Wii or Wii U and then I simply pop in my TP Wii disc? Or will I need an emulator on my PC? More details please...
Twilight Princess is the ugliest Zelda game. It plays great, the dungeons are top tier, but the overworld is empty and its colour palette is very muted
Well, it's certainly technically more "impressive" but something about it all just looks a bit fugly. Not that the original ever looked particularly pretty either, imo.
This is the perfect showcase for the argument that "Tech does not equal beauty."
Now, go compare the likes of A Link to the Past, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword...and see how much better those games hold up visually.
Great artistry will always trump "cutting edge" tech, and especially over time.
This is way better than the "facelift" for Wii U, TPHD just looks incredibly lazy to be honest with how little and meaningless the differences are.
@DoctorWily Well, it's with the Dolphin Emulator for PC. You rip the ISO using a modded Wii, from a disc using USB Loader. Sometimes you get a bad dump. This is the legal way to do it.
Then, the rest is complicated, but I think you prefetch custom textures with it on slow. After downloading everything...
It's really complicated.
Signed up to tell you. It requires a great PC.
@PlywoodStick OBJECTION!
It will run from 480p to 5k! Of course, resolutions which I'll refer to as times the native resolution will now be here. 1x (480p) 2x 2.5x (I think this is 720p) 3x (1080p) 4x (1440p) 5x 6x (4k) 7x 8x (5k)
Internal resolutions higher than what's recommended for 1080p may heavily strain your hardware.
EDIT: Yeah there are 5k monitors. Like the 5k iMac and that Dell Ultrasharp.
Also, the game will run at 30fps.
It really just looks like a remake...
And if they try selling it, they'll have to "take on" a lawsuit.
I actually don't mind he lack of graphic updates on the Wii U I love the game so it's great it's going to have a new level of support, and for good graphics wait till Zelda u
Really not sure what the people complaining about TPHD were expecting. Improving the resolution and textures is a very different task from creating new models. There are limits to how good a 2006 game will look without a complete overhaul. I'm more interested in any gameplay enhancements, anyway.
While I appreciate what they're doing here, I think all their work has mostly served to emphasize the smeary, muddy nature of the oginal game's textures. What I personally like about the official remake is the fact that it sharpens lines and enhances details without relying on an overuse of shadows on everything, so it has a brighter and cleaner look, and I like that.
He says that this would work with the original GameCube or Wii game. How will that work assuming this is a PC game? Yes, it is a huge effort compared to Nintendo's little effort, even though the technical differences are there, but the effort of Nintendo via Tantalus is minimum nevertheless, I was expecting much more.
@Dr_Corndog Totally agree. I think people have unrealistic expectations for a basic up-res of a decade-old game. I also think people are rejecting TP HD prematurely, since all we've seen is the one trailer, and it's still several months away from completion.
@mjc0961 Lol. Not if used correctly.
Meanwhile Nintendo is making a large-scale new game while handing the remake to an Australian developer...
Do I even need to point out how Nintendo has legal ground to shut this project down?
Beautiful - makes Nintendo's 'retexture' project look pathetic.
@Geonjaha Beat Nintendo in what exactly? Outdoing a third-party in making a remake?
@LztheQuack Don't bother trying to reason with people like him.
He probably spends all day looking at generic ugly Unreal Engine 4 versions of Pokemon.
Let's avoid insults and profanity -Lz
You forgot to mention the Zelda fans that are tired of seeing Nintendo crap out remakes...
@starcatcher77 While I disagree with him (it looks great, in my opinion), it's his opinion, and he has a right to it—it being made with lots of love and man-power doesn't change anything.
If this can be done in someone's basement by a couple of people, Nintendo's version should've been better. Hardware does not restrict creative choices.
@FierceRagnar I would rather wait for a remake than a HD Remaster, but we all know Nintendo will go with the easy option and still charge full price for it
@LztheQuack - Yes.
@MrRight - Here you can see prime example of this phenomenon, resorting to some very strange straw-manning.
It does look impressive but now Nintendo has announced a Twilight Princess HD can't say that I'm interested as that's the only one I'll be able to play on my Wii U with the option for Wii controls (I'm pretty confident they'll include Wii controls). I also like sharing on Miiverse.
@FierceRagnar Welp, I was too dense to notice that. And I wasn't aware that "HD remake" isn't a thing, either, since it's so often mentioned when fans demand stuff.
@PlywoodStick 30FPS... blegh. If I didn't already know that this is par for the course with Zelda titles, I would be pretty mad about that. Hopefully, that'll change at some point.
@Geonjaha Uh, okay then. Should Nintendo hang their heads low and sit in a corner? I'm trying to understand some of these smug comments.
I would be fine with this existing if this comment section didn't create such a negative taste in my mouth. I have the same problem with Project M really, less the product being a thing and more some of the people supporting it. I get the official product doesn't quite make you happy, but the mod is far different then what the official content set out to do. TPHD is not just a graphic retool, it's also going to have gameplay refinements that personally interest me more.
Also the Zelda E3 Tech demo bit also irks me, its consumer ignorance at its finest. Tech demos exist to show off what a system can do, and should never and I repeat never be expected to be a what a final product should look like. That Zelda demo was nothing more than a bunch of shiny models, animations and fancy lighting without any of the other stuff needed for a full game running in the background.
@LztheQuack - No, they should try not to be outdone by freelance groups of fans. Lazy HD remasters make money, but fan projects can often show how little effort companies are willing to invest in them. No need to get testy.
@Geonjaha How much of the official HD remake have you seen exactly? Because the minute and a half of footage they've shown so far is nowhere near enough to base the kind of statements you're making on, and it's not even high quality footage. Or have you somehow gotten your hands on materials that no one else has? Also, the game isn't finished yet, so you can be 100% certain that the finished product will look different from the handful of scenes shown off in a trailer made half a year before release.
@LztheQuack why would Nintendo take this down? Whats their legal ground? Its a mod not a game made from the ground up from Unity like the Mario 64 HD project🙂. It would be like Bethesda taking down all the ENB or graphics mods for their games.!
"Look at this game you'll never play"
Love these articles.
@Geonjaha If this game can run on the Wii U fine, I'll admit that Nintendo...or rather that Australian developer, was "outdone". I'm just seeing a lot of "why are you being outdone by your fans Nintendo?" comments that just bug me on several levels.
Cool project - I'd love to be involved in something like this. I can't wait for the official remake on Wii U - probably the best possible holdover until the nice, big, tasty new Zelda game later next year.
I swear, some people never learn.
Unless they get Nintendo's explicit permission to do so, no matter how good this little project of their's turns out to be, it's still an illegal use of Nintendo's IP, and it will be be shut down.
And if they do try to finish this after they get the C&D, they'll get sued back to the stone age.
@AceDefective why would you show a system at its so-called best if it's never going to achieve its best.
"and should never and I repeat never be expected to be a what a final product should look like."
So you're saying that if Nintendo created content that looked like its tech demo, it would be bad or wrong. This is dumb.
@MaverickHunterX its a mod, same as the fan conversions of smash brothers its not illegal. Its part of creative use and embelishment clauses of intellectial property code. If nintendo had the rights to take it down, then that means all mods are illegal and should also be taken down. This is not a game built from the ground up. They do not use copyrighted assets from nintendo, all they are doing are graphic and effects mods. Ano example would be skyrim or anyother pc games that have ENB mods or texture mods
@Tubalcain: If that were the case, then how do they plan to distribute said "mod"?
@Kaze_Memaryu you say that till the Wii u game comes out.lol kids will be kids
Beating Nintendo? If they were going to make it run on a WiiU, yes. As it is, nice -but pointless- exercise.
I honestly don't get why this game even needs a remake. If anything remake tougher games like The Adventures of Link, Metroid II, EarthBound Beginnings, or even Kid Icarus. All they basically do is taking every grim things about Twilight Princess and re-coloring them to make it look prettier. C'mon 3D remakes of older games would be amazing if any dev is up to the challenge.
"Sure, Nintendo has shut down many projects like this before, but not mine! I KNOW I'm invincible! Ahyuck!"
@LztheQuack I love your avatar. Donald is my favorite cartoon character.
@Tubalcain Sorry, but you seem to have a complete lack of knowledge on the subject of copyright law. It is definitely illegal to mod a game if the publisher/owner hasn't given consent. If a copyright owner authorizes mods on a given game, then obviously it's not illegal to mod that game. But unless that consent is specifically given for a game, you should always assume that it is illegal to make mods for it. Really simple. And it doesn't matter if you're using the publishers assets or not. Nintendo owns everything associated with the Legend of Zelda franchise. Just using the character of Link violates copyright. Even if you just made a game that in no way resembles a Zelda game, but you called it "Zelda", you would be violating copyright.
Ultimately it comes down to the publisher to defend their ip against infringement, but Nintendo has always defended their copyrights in basically every case that's ever been brought to their attention. And this definitely falls into the same category as the Mario 64 Unreal demo. Even if it were built entirely from scratch, why would you ever think it would be okay to use copyrighted characters and other aspects of a game that you don't own? If I had to guess, I'd say that the only thing that's keeping Nintendo from shutting this down is the fact that A) they haven't been made aware of it, and B) the demo is not yet playable and hasn't been distributed to anyone. But mostly A.
Looks good. Unfortunately it's on PC, where it does me no good. The official remake will be on Wii U where I can play it, so my focus is with that.
As for the whole "not looking good enough" thing, I just... don't....really care all that much. Looks good enough for me to enjoy it, so I'm good. Of course I'll be interested to see it on my actual TV screen rather than in a video.
@CHET_SWINGLINE what? Just to be clear Im a IP lawyer, videogame cannot be copyright, only trademarked, what can be copyrighted are the assets. Anyway what they are doing is called imbellishment and creative use, as long as its not for profit then there is no problem. Again, THEY ARE NOT USING NINTENDO MADE ASSETS, THEY ARE MERELY ADDING EFFECTS.
Mods are illegal??? What?
@CHET_SWINGLINE what? Just to be clear Im a IP lawyer, videogame cannot be copyright, only trademarked, what can be copyrighted are the assets. Anyway what they are doing is called imbellishment and creative use, as long as its not for profit then there is no problem. Again, THEY ARE NOT USING NINTENDO MADE ASSETS, THEY ARE MERELY ADDING EFFECTS.
Mods are illegal??? What?
@CHET_SWINGLINE wis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. (Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, 1992) heres a jurisprudence for you
"This is way better than the "facelift" for Wii U, TPHD just looks incredibly lazy to be honest with how little and meaningless the differences are."
I just knew there'd be at least on complete moron here to say this. I'm actually surprised there aren't more. The trolling Nintendo receives is just so weak. The sadder thing is it comes from supposed fans too
@Tubalcain There actually has been a lot of drama surrounding Project M. It's widely believed Nintendo has used some kind of legal pressure to prevent that game from being streamed. Even if they couldn't win a case based on any laws, they could certainly strong arm someone into stopping. People aren't going to have the time or money to fight off a big company like Nintendo.
They certainly are not ok with types of mods like this, because the only way to mod TP is 1. to hack your wii/gamecube or 2.to play it on an emulator, both of which Nintendo does not want their customers doing. Not to mention that something like this could take away from sales of THEIR Twilight Princess HD. You compare it to Skyrim, but it's very different because Bethesda actually encourages the community to mod their games (probably because they ship broken...)
When has Nintendo ever encouraged people to modify their games? They are very protective of their IP and shoot down so many fan-made games.
Eh, still looks funky in HD. Twilight Princess was never a very pretty game and I was never fond of the color palette, and having HD textures and stuff slapped on it doesn't make it look much better. I don't really care that there are super-spiffy HD remakes...The new less-fuzzy graphics in the Wii U version are good enough for me. I'm really just interested in the new game features they are adding to it, though. What will the Wolfmiibo do?
Also, my computer is garbage with electricity running through it and can't run a game more complicated than Undertale, so I wouldn't be able to play the fan HD remake, anyway.
Side note not really related but sort of related: It's probably good that I'm not hung up on graphics, otherwise I wouldn't bother getting my grubby mitts on a PS2 this weekend to play Chrono Cross and some Castlevania games. I finally get to play some non-nintendo system classics I've been eyeing for years. Can't wait. Screw all the HD hubbub, I'm getting a PS2 soon!
@Tubalcain "videogame cannot be copyright, only trademarked, what can be copyrighted are the assets"
Bahaha. This statement alone proves with no uncertainty that you are no more an "IP lawyer" than I am a unicorn breeder. At least, if you are such a lawyer, it's not in anything resembling a first-world country.
"imbellishment and creative use"
First of all, it's spelled "embellishment." And more importantly, that's a phrase you made up. It has no meaning, at least not in law. As for the case you referenced, it deals with the Game Genie, which was not a mod of any specific game, or a mod of anything. It was just a device that allowed users to play a modified version of games that they already owned, so Galoob wasn't actually making any money off of mods at all. It has zero relevance to this discussion.
And yes, mods are illegal if the game's copyright holder hasn't given permission and you share the modified game with other people. None of your points are true or accurate. I'm trying to refrain from lashing out at you or belittling your naïveté, but it's getting more difficult for me to do that with each new comment you post.
@Slim1999 Seems like you just talk nonsense. Try again, and use coherent wording this time, not snippets of YouTube trolling attempts.
@Splatburst The mod shown here is certainly well within the realms of Wii U limitations, as for the Zelda E3 tech demo - I'd imagine it is well within it too - the tech demo is pretty much running on a modified Twilight Princess engine with a plethora of effects bolted on @ 720p - lets keep in mind that this was Nintendo's first real attempt at real time 'HD' graphics so the Zelda team were only learning the ropes as well.
Nintendo are simply repackaging Twilight Princess with HD textures - probably ripped from a fan made pack.
I hope this comes into fruition. I also hope they make it free and open source software before there is some mean take-down notice on the part of Nintendo! Even if they don't implement some stuff, I really hope they just release it so we can just walk round the beautiful environments!
@CHET_SWINGLINE
You realise 'Intellectual Property' is just corporate propaganda? It is a meaningless term that suggests a vague link between trademark, copyright and patents. They are actually completely different, and apply to different works. Nobody really knows what it means but it has become a familiar term because it is parroted in much of the written media.
Meh, it hardly feels like Twilight Princess anymore. I've yet to see a fan project in this vein that didn't smack of misplaced "fans with far too much time on their hands always do it better" hubris. Regardless of whether this thing inexplicably escapes cease-and-desist mails, I'll take the real deal over this anyday.
@LztheQuack Why does it bug you? The fact is Nintendo are being outdone by their fans.
Technically modders are doing Nintendo's job and finishing their games for free. Big N has always been terribly lazy in the move to polygons. Their 2D artwork was always decent quality on SNES - but their texture work for the last 20 years has been absymal.
Rare destroyed them from day 1 on N64 producing highly detailed and richly textured graphics complete with advanced lighting, AI and high polygon counts (for their era of tech). Even on Wii U Nintendo's texturing is only just 'adequate'.
On GCN - Factor 5 created gigantic Star Wars levels replete with bump mapping and intricately detailed realistic texturing over vast expanses, throw in advanced lighting, lots of AI and 16,000,000 P/S@60fps, full soundtrack on Rogue Squadron 3 in 2004......Makes you wonder what exactly Nintendo have been doing all these years.
Twilight Princess texture work is worse than parts of Ocarina of Time - which while highly commended in 1998 wasn't anywhere near the Rare standard.
@ZBomber It is impossible for mods like this to impact sales. You've just fallen for the typical corporate propaganda spouted from all industries. Does radio stop music sales? Do second hand dealers impact sales of new cars? No, No and NO.
The only people who will be trying this out will be those with no intention of buying TP in the first place. Those who intend to purchase will purchase.
No lost sales.
Of course, the lighting engine is more "advanced" and some parts are more highly detailed. But most textures look kinda plastic or otherwise "painted" and pretty out of place. It all makes it look inconsistent. It's kinda amateurish, but I applaud the effort.
In any case, this must provide really great work experience to those involved.
Obviously, I prefer the official HD version, although I wish they'd update the lighting angine and retain more of the originals dreamlike and soft look.
1st of all. the game looks great for a Texture Edit on Dolphin, 2nd of all, MY God the Comment Section in here.
@liveswired "Makes you wonder what exactly Nintendo have been doing all these years."
Making good games and giving plenty of reasons to spam comment sections
Just doing what Nintendon't. I hope it succeed. Won't spend a dollar in that new lazy port they insist to call it "HD version".
@donniedarkenson Welcome to game development, where things always go wrong and nothing is guaranteed to look like the unoptimized tech demo running simpler less complex code and has the advantage on being shown in incoherent pieces that have less stuff to drag it down.
Tech demos showcase what the system could do, but making full games out of them can be problematic when the specs needed to maintain a game like that are out of reach.
@Braok That's true, 4k (or even 5k in the future) will be a possible setting, it's just that diminishing returns occur after 1080p for right now, even with powerful hardware, so I didn't mention it. That may change in the future, though.
@Kaze_Memaryu They may get around to fixing the problems 60 FPS creates with TP's game engine eventually. It creates some nasty artifacts on the fly, a good example being while climbing ladders. Ishiiruka may be the method to get around that, but that starts tampering with how the engine functions, so it's delicate territory. (Reverse engineering is commonly stated as being illegal in those documents almost no one reads.)
@CHET_SWINGLINE That argument goes both ways. How can anyone who isn't working on the official HD project directly be certain that the finished official product absolutely will look any different than what was shown? It's not far off from going gold, and a few months isn't a whole lot of time before mass disc printing needs to meet schedule. What was shown is probably all we can expect out of it visually. The highlight of the official HD version will probably just be Wii U specific features, e.g. Miiverse and Gamepad integration. Meanwhile, this fan project has all the time in the world to add new features, no deadlines.
And no, the way the project is being conducted is not illegal, since they are being careful to avoid certain pitfalls, and they are not selling this. (They even briefly discussed in their November 10 stream what some of those legal pitfalls to avoid are.) As pointed out, saying this mod is illegal would be similar to saying the Game Genie and Gameshark were illegal for the ways they modified code. (Which Nintendo tried to claim, and lost miserably.) An excerpt from that case, with the US Copyright Act of 1976 being questioned:
"The district court's finding that no independent work is created, see Galoob, 780 F. Supp. at 1291, is supported by the record. The Game Genie merely enhances the audiovisual displays (or underlying data bytes) that originate in Nintendo game cartridges. The altered displays do not incorporate a portion of a copyrighted work in some concrete or permanent form. Nintendo argues that the Game Genie's displays are as fixed in the hardware and software used to create them as Nintendo's original displays. Nintendo's argument ignores the fact that the Game Genie cannot produce an audiovisual display; the underlying display must be produced by a Nintendo Entertainment System and game cartridge. The Game Genie's display has no form. Even if we were to rely on the Copyright Act's definition of "fixed," we would similarly conclude that the resulting display is not "embodied," see 17 U.S.C. @ 101, in the Game Genie. It cannot be a derivative work."
The same or a similar conclusion can likely be drawn from this mod, even more so since no money (except a few small donations) is trading hands, and the mod does not function on it's own, nor as a deritive work. It can only function when applied to a clean copy of TP.
@Tubalcain Nice reference! Sometimes, people forget about precedence (or lack thereof) in their assessments... One cannot act on the present/future wisely without knowing the past.
@ZBomber It's true, Nintendo has indeed used legal pressure on professional competitive outlets such as EVO to prevent Project M from appearing. This also applies to their draconian Youtube/streaming media policies. It's not just a rumor, they're blatantly shoving their weight around various venues with no resistance. (In the case of Google/Youtube, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of the USA gives them carte blanche to be restrictive.) Nintendo absolutely does not want fan projects to be used in venues where money is trading hands, regardless of the fan project being just as good as official efforts (or arguably better).
Wow I've seen some strange comments on here ranging from blind support such as the game doesn't launch for another few months so may miraculously change beyond all recognition before launch. To well this isn't on the poor little old Wii U as if somehow the Wii U is no more powerful than the gamecube. To the ridiculous notion that somehow adding amiibo support and the gamepad socks all of the available power out of the Wii U meaning there is no way to improve on a 10 year old game.
Let's get this straight, the above video looks better than Nintendo's and yes Nintendo could make there's look this good on Wii U. They won't because it's basically to fill the gap before the next Zelda comes and this is why very minimal work appears to have been done with just a few textures been the biggest difference. The resolution increase largely been automatic on far superior hardware.
Unfortunately there are many who support Nintendo no matter what, my only potential complaint about this game and I suspect for many others is the question of price. At a budget price of around £20-25 this is more than acceptable, for a full price retail launch than this is a huge rip off. Before anyone wishes to criticise my price structure just remember that many games from a similar period have been given such basic HD treatments on the other consoles and been priced below the £20 mark and the Upcoming Ratchet and Clank remake has basically been rebuilt and that is rumoured to be a budget price launched.
@liveswired For something like Project M, sure I would agree with you that it doesn't really take away from sales. But this fan version is arguably going to be a better HD remake of the game. Do you really think they aren't going to lose ANY sales from a (most likely superior) free fan-made HD upgrade of the same game Nintendo will be charging $40+ for, especially when it's getting coverage on gaming/Nintendo fan sites and becoming more accessible to the masses?
For the record, I am not against the fan HD remake, and I think Nintendo should be more open minded with things like this. But the fact is they aren't, and they certainly are not going to be ok with fans releasing basically a better version of something they are going to be charging people for. Obviously the game will still sell with or without the fan made version, but even if only a couple hundred people download the mod instead of buying the game, it's lost revenue for Nintendo.
I do enjoy watching everyone eat each other in the comments i must confess...
Keep the insanity coming guys!
@PlywoodStick Is this some kind of joke? How are there so many insane people here? It is 100% illegal (at least in the United States) to copy, reproduce, or alter ANY copyrighted fictional work, such as a film or video game, if the copyright holder has not given consent. It doesn't matter if you're "avoiding pitfalls" (another meaningless phrase) or even if you're distributing the product to other people. Go pull out a copy of any Nintendo game and read the end-user license agreement. This is such a simple black and white issue. It truly baffles me that people can't comprehend it.
@ZenTurtle No, I don't realize that, because that is utter hogwash. Everything you're saying here is nonsense. But by all means, go spend a few years developing a video game and then give it away for free, and let people alter it how they choose, and sell your work as their own. It's your prerogative.
@PlywoodStick Um, no. It's not a nice reference, because it has zero relevance to the issue of game mods. Game genie wasn't a game mod. It didn't include any original code from actual games. It didn't make use of specific characters or copyrighted materials of any kind. It's not even remotely pertinent to the topic.
Wake me up when they make a full game with new story, all new dungeons and made from scratch while also being better than any 3D zelda game, only then I will say the beat Nintendo at their own game.
Wow. This one actually looks considerably better than the original!
@PlywoodStick I doubt they'd do it for TP, since it's already going at 30, and by now, it wouldn't benefit them to go up to 60FPS. But I really hope that the upcoming WiiU Zelda will be up to the task, just for the sake of more fluid animations and controls.
Also, I admit I didn't know reverse engineering was prohibited, either. gulp
@CHET_SWINGLINE http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/copyright/cases/galoob_vs_nintendo.html
It's no joke, there it all is. You're correct that it's illegal to directly alter (reverse engineer) someone else's copyrighted work... That is not what is being done here. Code is being injected into a clean copy of the game, which can be considered a legal loophole if it's not directly sold for money, is not a directly dirivitive work, and cannot function on it's own. It could be claimed as being fair use. It may not be a 1:1 case, but the result is similar. Nintendo claimed that cheat code devices (or, by extension, mods) make use of copyrighted materials by reverse engineering and altering them. The court ruled that this was not legally the case, directly citing from their interpretation reached through the Copyright Act of 1976.
As for copying, it is only situationally illegal. For instance, it is illegal if you directly copy the base software and then distribute it. If all you do is copy it then keep it to yourself, using your own legally purchased copy, then it is not illegal to have your own personal backup copy. (The legalities displayed in instruction manuals, etc do not include this important bit, for reasons that should be obvious.) Distributing mods is not covered by this legality, since it is not the base code. It is illegal to interfere with the consumer's right to a backup of their purchased copy. (Though many companies have inserted language in recent years, especially for digital copies, which circumvents that legality once the end user hits "I Accept" on those mystical legal agreements almost no one reads.)
If you have allegations of insanity, direct them towards our legal system. If you think you have a case, and some money, maybe they'll listen. You would be going up against precedent, though, so good luck with that.
@ZBomber I would argue this could actually buff sales. It's more publicity for TP and TP HD, which due to increased interest, may increase sales of both the new official HD copies and used copies of the older versions. Economically speaking, this is a good thing for everyone. The people who get the Wii U version will probably take a similar stance as JaxonH, anyways: "That fancy mod looks nice, but who cares? This is the version that suits me."
I've been keeping track of this project for a week or so. I can not wait to actually get my hands on this texture pack, gameplay changes included. After being dissapointed with Nintendo remaster of my favorite Zelda game, I need to play this. Congrats to Tomoya for out doing Nintendo.
@Tsurii
Considering they planning on making the AI smarter, make bosses and the game in generalharder, some things less tedious like changing into Wolf Link, going through the trouble of re adding the magic meter, adding even more new features like adding a new mode to Wolf Link where he is stronger but take more damage and the spinner being useful in battle, and small stuff like a Boss Rush and a costume system like in Tri Force heroes, I pretty sure they care a lot more about gameplay than must people who make HD texture packs. And I'm sure they're doing more than adding "generic filters". Most notable they're making the game use more than 6 colors.
@PlywoodStick The only thing about your comments that's even partially correct is your insistence on precedence. And as far as this project is concerned, there is a mountain of precedence in the form of essentially identical projects that have been shut down by Nintendo. I promise you that this one will be no different. Give it a week or two. As for the legal system or the ethics involved, I have plenty of thoughts on the matter, but I would just as soon put my hand in a blender and flip the switch before I'd get into a discussion about any of that with people on this site.
@CHET_SWINGLINE We'll just have to wait and see. Nintendo has never touched either of the two different HD mod versions of TP that InsaneSlug and Victor Rosa made, one completed and one still underway, respectively; not to mention a full playthrough of InsaneSlug's HD version of TP on Youtube still yet remains available for viewing. I expect this version will also remain untouched. (Unless the Nintendo legal department gets an itchy trigger finger due to the impending proximity of the official TP HD... Even then, though, that would be almost more so for a political reason than a legal one.)
@PlywoodStick I could see it increasing sales of the original, but I'm not entirely convinced it would help sales of the HD version. I guess it's all gonna come down to what the HD release offers that the fan made and original versions don't. Worthwhile amiibo support? Revamped game mechanics? Gamepad support? If it isn't much more than a HD retexturing, People like myself that are big Zelda fans will buy the Nintendo HD release even if its inferior to the fan made one, but I can't see casual Nintendo fans wanting to dish out for the HD disc after playing the fan made one if it does everything it's promising to.
@PlywoodStick The only reason any of those are still up is because they are obscure enough that Nintendo hasn't heard of them, or else just hasn't gotten to them yet. Give it time.
Nintendo should fire Tantalus right now.
Look at the in-house studio's job on Windwaker and how nice that looked, look at this really nice fan made version without the support of Nintendo or a bug budget, then look at how underwhelming the shots of the Tantalus port look.
I wonder if the Twilight Princess HD wasn't meant for the 3DS smaller screen, and then dumped over to Wii U where you can see how bad it looks in HD?
@CHET_SWINGLINE
What I'm saying isn't that people shouldn't be able to sell games. It's just that patents (inventions that are useful), trademarks (designed to show that a work is made by a person/organisation) and copyright (designed to prevent unfair copying) are different, and apply to different things. I did not mean to come accross as accusing, it's just that we should not confuse the three, under the vague term 'intellectual property'. It is essentially corporate propaganda because it is used as a catch-all term by big business to justify the various draconian laws around copying and modifying work.
Cool.
Niche.
I'll take Nintendo's for actually playing. I've gone down the emulation route with Wii for a bit and was playing 3D Wind Waker, but... it's all just too much time investment for me as a player. I'll watch this in videos and cheer on the hard working hobbiests, but I'll play the official version which looks about as great as I expected. I just didn't realize so many people were expecting new geometry and a big reworking of the game.
Wind Waker went way further than I expected but all the geometry is exactly the same. It's just some shader tweaking and the timeless nature of the abstraction makes the easy updates look really great. (Not to mention many Zelda fans didn't give it a chance at original released and looked on it with more mature eyes now.)
Nintendo makes Zelda games that are very similar to each other. Each one is a "remake" of the original. I can't see why Nintendo would ever put all those resources into a remaster when it can make a new Zelda. And it is.
@aaronsullivan Very well said. I think people are really overestimating how much was actually done to Wind Waker in its HD "remake." It was less of a remake and more of a makeover, and from my own humble background in and knowledge of development, I think the few brief minutes we've seen of Twilight Princess HD shows that roughly the same process is being employed for that game. It's just that the "realistic" art style of Twilight Princess limits the level of impact you can achieve with that process.
@ZenTurtle It's fine, I didn't take anything you said as personal. But unfortunately, I don't agree with your argument that "intellectual property" is little more than a slogan invented to serve the corporate propaganda machine. This is a game that I've got skin in. As a creator of numerous works of art, graphic designs, and even software, I've been able to make a living off of those creations specifically because the law respects works that differ from "real property" in that they have no tangible value but have value nonetheless.
I am not a corporation. I don't care about propagandizing anyone. I'm just a guy. Do some corporations benefit unfairly through the manipulation of the law and taking advantage of loopholes in ip law? Probably, and I'm sure there are firm examples to be found if you felt like looking for them. But at the end of the day, you and I, average everyday people, can benefit just as greatly as giant corporations from the legal protection of creative property.
The things he mention as "too ambitious for the hardware" are things that aren't limited by the hardware.
Looks a lot better then Nintendo's attempt! Of course the Nintendo attempt can still improve, but still...
Either way, this fan project will get canceled. Nintendo just won't allow it.
I feel like it's a bit too bright. The colouring isn't "Twilight Princess" but more "Ocarina of Time" at least I that's what I thought. I like the shadowy & darkness-like colors that the original Twilight Princess have and it seams Nintendo will stick to that. Otherwise this is pretty good.
@PlywoodStick
Hi PlywoodStick, have you seen the updates that i posted?
Give it a try = P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZaic5yNq3k
@Zach777 this didnt age well
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