Natsume is a publisher and developer that pops up relatively regularly on the current day Virtual Console, certainly more so than some other names that were common on the Wii but have appeared less on the Wii U and 3DS. As such it's a company with some useful insight into how the platform works, and a Q & A by Community Manager 'CeeCee' has a couple of interesting snippets of information.
One answer points to a trend that keen Wii U Virtual Console followers will have spotted already - the phasing out of SNES games. A question about the Pocky & Rocky SNES games prompted a suggestion that Nintendo is moving on from the 16-bit system to alternative platforms.
At this point, it's unlikely we'll see any other Natsume SNES games coming to the Virtual Console, as Nintendo's interest has moved onto other classic systems.
In recent times Nintendo's focus has certainly been on Game Boy Advance, DS and Nintendo 64, so this isn't entirely surprising. The reason that Nintendo's focus matters a great deal, though, is due to its prominent role in third-party classics arriving on the Virtual Console. As is explained, it's the big N that does most of the work, not the original publishers.
The titles for Virtual Console are handled by Nintendo. The publisher and Nintendo discuss which classic titles would be a good fit and have the best potential to sell. Once a title is agreed upon, Nintendo and the publisher work together to bring that title to the designated system, with Nintendo doing the bulk of the work.
It's an interesting insight into how games come to the Virtual Console, and with the emphasis on Nintendo to make releases happen that does help to explain the slow drip-feed and focus on big-name titles.
If Natsume's insight is correct, would you be disappointed to see less and less SNES games on the Wii U Virtual Console this year and beyond?
I'm STILL waiting on those 3DS SNES games. Are the ambassadors really going to be the only ones to ever see SNES on 3DS?
I welcome this move as they really need to move on. We have enough of these on the Wii VC. Give us more N64 games and hopefully Cube games.
@TeeJay What? There have never been any SNES games on the 3DS. Not even for Ambassadors.
Anyways, this whole VC situation is frustrating, and I've largely given up. If something comes out on it that I want, I'll get it, but if I want to play something like Pocky & Rocky, I have other options available.
Their SNES games have pretty crappy emulation options & the screen area is smaller than the GBA games, WTF? The GBA games are by far the best looking emulated games on the system. The N64 stuff looks decent enough as well, too bad we'll only be limited to a majority of Nintendo 1st party titles for that console. It's a shame we'll never see Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie, Conker, etc....
@CanisWolfred Ambassador games were all GBA and nes games.
Misread .both you and TeeJay lol
This is pretty disappointing, Nintendo's really been behind on the VC this generation. What's there is great, but it just feels... limited, this time around.
This certainly helps explain why the games tend to trickle out slowly each week. Can't say I blame Nintendo now.
For first party SNES games on Wii U VC, we're still missing Super Mario RPG and Kirby's Avalanche.
"The publisher and Nintendo discuss which classic titles would be a good fit and have the best potential to sell."
"Hasent made a deal with Square, probably THE owner of the best selling, most wanted SNES titles around"
Yeah, sounds plausible....
@TeeJay There are no SNES titles on the 3DS what so ever. The Ambassador games were GBA ones, and even those used a loophole to run, nothing you could really sell, as it would probably have a hard time in QA.
SNES emulation is even more tricky then GBA emulation, due to the fact, that many games used hardware build into the cartridge and not into the system itself. Getting to run SNES emulation on a dedicated gaming console on a level, that the product is actually sellable is a feet in and of itself.
@Dreamcaster-X Of course the screen is smaller, the SNESs aspect ratio was standard 4:3, which a normal modern TV can render, the GBAs 3:2 has to be upscaled, ending up with a bigger picture.
And saying that SNES emulation on the WiiU is crappy is just BS. The WiiU emulates games pretty much spot on, even down to games using special chipsets. And the picture quality is above and beyond everything you could ever get out of an SNES on a modern TV.
"Moved on" from the SNES? One of the shining jewels of Nintendo's history??? That tells you a lot about whoever is calling the shots on Virtual Console right now. Nintendo needs to get rid of whoever is currently making the decisions on this matter immediately, and get back someone like the ones who were in charge during the early-mid Wii VC years.
If you throw out your treasures into the trash, someone else (e.g. hackers, homebrewers, and emulators) will pick them up. Make no mistake about it.
Things like the FX chip are not a valid excuse either; people who got paid nothing managed to get them running on homebrew and emulators, including softmodded Wiis. I would expect a large professional company to at least be able to match the standards of a fragmented network of smart volunteers.
Other than Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island and Starfox, are there any more good first-party SNES games left to port to Wii U Virtual Console? And the latter two will never surface, anyway, because of the whole FX Chip issue. This really isn't an issue, except for Mario RPG, anyway...
Edit: @CrazyOtto I forgot about Kirby's Avalanche and therefore stand corrected.
You know what would be smart? If they stopped their pointless war with emulators and instead use the people being these emulators to bring games to Virtual Console.
Still so many great SNES games I'd like to see on Wii U and especially on the 3DS, though I'm highly doubtful about SNES games ever releasing on 3DS.
I don't get why the majority of the Wii VC isn't on the Wii U by now. Are Nintendo really going to do this to themselves every time they have a new console, whatever "this" is? I would expect that they could hire college-level interns to put the roms into the emulator and test them. Is there a part of the process I'm not understanding? Why isn't this just a copy-and-paste job?
...I really hope they're wrong. :/
@EngieBengie You know what would be even smarter ?
Knowing that the people who are getting the WiiU VC games to run are actually Emulator programmers Nintendo took notice of
And "stopping their pointless war with emulators" is probably the weirdest thing ive ever heard.
So, youd rather have them hand out their codes to emulator programmers, so even less people buy their consoles ?
Yeah, great idea for a console manufacturer That would be a really smart idea.
This better not be true, I really wanna play the SNES Pocky and Rocky.
@Dodger Learn a bit about emulation, look into the hassle that is getting these things to run properly (and i mean properly in a sense, that you can actually sell these games, because having to deal with emulation hicups is one thing if youre not paying for it) on a dedicated gaming mashine and then youll get your answer
@EngieBengie The war on emulation isn't "pointless". It's an effort to prevent piracy, which Nintendo can't monetize and costs them money. Illegal emulation is a financial drain on the gaming industry, and it's not hard to see why.
@PlywoodStick That has been Miyamoto in a long time. The guy is old and bitter and needs to go before is too late.
Oh, and I'd love to play Stunt Race FX again, but that's a pipe dream at this point...
@thesilverbrick Yeah, that SuperFX chip is a real pain in the behind.
Its incredibly hard to emulate it on anything other then a properly powerfull PC or a similarly "open" device.
That sucks. I love NES and SNES games on Wii U.
The fact we have less 3rd party companies releasing VC this time then on the original Wii hasnt helped matters. Noticeably, we've yet to see any Square Enix even though they've released the Final Fantasys for NES and SNES on the Japanese Wii U VC.
Remember when SNK were still supporting the Wii VC even after the Wii U was out? Which that devotion, you'd think we would of seen Neo Geo games by now, but nope....
Not okay with this. We still don't have Super Mario RPG, or any of the great Square games like Chrono Trigger or FF6. Those are must haves.
Well that sucks. Although, it's very interesting to find out Nintendo thinks Medabots is a good fit for the Wii U!
The Super FX chip is not hard to emulate, Rasberry Pi's & Ouya's do it with ease & it can be done with far less computing power than that!!
I know that many have said it before, but I am so sick of the slow trickle of virtual console releases. Yes, some take longer, and I appreciate that, but can't they throw us some NES nuggets or something when the pickins are slim? They have such a huge catalogue...
Well... This is not good
@Dreamcaster-X Yup, but those arent dedicated gaming platforms. Developing emulators on an open platform versus a dedicated one is pretty much night and day.
@Einherjar Star Fox and Yoshi's Island were successfully ported to modded Wiis and vWii on Wii U using homebrew emulation software. They even worked out the frame skipping issues they used to have. Nintendo has no excuse.
I would be surprised and disappointed if Nintendo moved on from SNES VC given how well they still hold up today. There is a generation of gamers that may have never played them and it would be a shame to ignore those potential sales.
@PlywoodStick Well, they actually have.
Does it meet QA standards ? Again, that thing has to run pretty much 100% accurate, or else it could be considered a rip-off.
Its a huge difference dealing with a somewhat "sloppy" meulation job when youre not paying 8 bucks for it.
@Einherjar Oh you're right, I completely forgot those were GBA games. My mistake, sorry about that
As long as the N64 and DS get some more attention, I think I'm fine with this. It'd be a shame but I wouldn't really care that much.
The N64 deserves more attention - Rareware classics need to come back on in full force with their 16:9 modes enabled, as does GCN,
16 Bit games for all their worth are a bit stale getting.
@Einherjar Funny you should mention that. I paid for a sloppy port of Donkey Kong 64 - Nintendo kindly prevent 16:9 and Dolby surround from functioning. What happened to the so called Nintendo QA and 100% emulation?
I completed the original on N64 in true 16:9 widescreen and dolby surround. Nintendo don't give a rats ass.
My Virtual Console looks a little bit like this one. Has everything I want!
@Einherjar Yes, Star Fox on Wii and vWii emulators is running 100% error free at this point. A bunch of volunteers pulled that off in their free time. What excuse does Nintendo's paid software tech department have? Nintendo needs to take a page from GOG.com's software tech department, they shouldn't be losing out to unpaid volunteers.
@HollywoodHogan I like your home screen!
@liveswired Weird, mines properly running in 16:9 and all it took was a simple button press on my TV remote.
@PlywoodStick " paid software tech department"
There you have your answer. Personal cost working on getting Super FX up and running Vs Game income.
They dont have that "free time" to get a specific game up and running, its a business. They arent dedicated to a single project, like most emulator devs are.
They shouldn't move away from ANY platform. They need to step up the efforts of Wii U VC. Ever since the debut of WiiWare, releases are often at a trickle rate. And the fact they started fresh on Wii U was bad. Sure, you have the Wii Shop Channel, but Nintendo insists we pay to upgrade (and I use the term loosely) to Wii U if we want off TV play. I'm worried that when the next console and portable hit, we'll be back to square one. Again.
And about why we have the trickle rate. It's not going to cause our brains to implode if you do 3-5 a week as opposed to one or none.
@Einherjar It's Nintendo's loss then, people will just download the proper vWii software if they want to play Star Fox or any other such difficult to port old game on their Wii U. (For free)
Would be nice if Nintendo went over and talked to Square Enix!
@PlywoodStick Yup, you just described why companys like Nintendo just dont care that much about emulating old Software
Because people like you "just pirate it", so its simply deemed "not profitable enough to put manpower into it"
They seem to be slower with the Wii U VC then they were with the Wii..I'm kind of over waiting a third time for the same games. The VC could be so so much better, but at times feels like some wanted opportunities. Not just the selection, but the lack of effort put into some, like how there is no multiplayer in the game boy games on the 3DS, or the GBA or DS games on the Wii U.
And yet, how many versions of Urban Champion are there now?
@Einherjar Seriously? That's not true 16:9 widescreen, you're just stretching the picture. Nintendo hasn't done a good job with DK64.
Plus, we got it as 50 Hz in Europe again...ppl need to stop finding excuses.
@Einherjar Hey now, I've only downloaded games like Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War and Fire Emblem: Thracia 776; all old titles that either have no official English translation or no NTSC-U release. (Or rare and difficult to come by these days, like Lufia 2.) I bought much more than a few old titles on the Wii VC, and I have bought plenty of old PC titles on GOG.com. It's possible to monetize old games, they just have to do it right.
There's already the three DKC games, Super Mario Kart and Super Mario World, so I'm good. Wish they'd release the SNES version of Yoshi's Island, though (since it's superior to the GBA version). I wouldn't be disappointed at all if they turned their focus to N64 titles, and GameCube ones in the future.
I've seen it plausibly discussed that the FX chip games are a thorny issue because Nintendo does not own the rights to that hardware. Of course, it's easier for those who have no regards for rights or licenses to create emulators that run the ROMs.
@aaronsullivan True, but even so, if Nintendo really wanted their old catalog to be available, they wouldn't let legal issues stop them from eventually making it work out. GOG.com is now selling several games in their storefront that took them years trying to acquire the rights to get running on modern systems and to sell them. (In some cases, the better part of 5 years!)
If Nintendo is truly dedicated, then even as a profitable business with license deals to uphold, legal matters should not be a permanent barrier, just a temporary one.
So no Super Mario RPG then?
I would be seriously disappointed if they don't at least release the Square SNES RPGs, along with Super Mario RPG.
We still haven't gotten GC VC
Boggles my mind that the Wii U SNES library is so weak compared to the Wii one. How did stuff like Super Mario RPG and ActRaiser get passed by, but NES junk like Golf show up? I've still yet to play my SMRPG on the Wii that I got from Club Nintendo because I was dumb and didn't realize it was Wii only, and I don't have a controller I can use for it.
It's depressing to think that Nintendo's virtual library will just get smaller and smaller as they continue to release consoles, considering they're unlikely to ever replicate the Wii's success anytime soon. To think that the virtual console is Nintendo's answer to emulation!
So the reason why we are missing so many titles is because Nintendo has to control everything themselves, they are short staffed and don't want to hire addition workers. No wonder why their third party support sucks. All they have to do is give third parties a little more freedom and trust that they can test a rom with their emulator and we could have much more vc titles. I'm not surprised by Nintendo's backward approach anymore.
More news about Nintendo being stupid for no good reason. My day just gets better and better.
There is absolutely NO reason for this. Nintendo has completely dropped the ball when it comes to the VC on the Wii-U and 3DS in my opinion...
SNES games are the ones I look the most forward to. This sucks.
Why is it that this console generation... Nintendo has been at it's worst... Seriously... Iwata needs to go.
I don't get why that chip is a problem though as of now... do the people that made that chip own a share of the IP or something? it is not like Nintendo needs to use that chip again to run their games as the hardware now is more than capable without it.
I'm still hoping for more snes titles on the virtual console. Hopefully Nintendo does them in waves and down the road we will see more of them again.
Theres still the original VC that had a bunch of titles
I've recently changed my mind about VC (and maybe it's partly from finally getting my DKC games, but here it goes...)
I think it's one of those situations where we've been complaining about virtual console for so long we haven't noticed the gradual improvements. I'm not saying it's perfect, not by any means, but it's not half bad anymore. We've actually got a pretty diverse selection of some of the best titles of the last two decades. It's not going to ever match the Wii's selection (then again maybe it will by the time this generation is over?) but we are getting games the Wii never saw, and considering you can still buy the entire WiiShop catalog on the Wii U, I think it's important that they focus on new games that have not debuted.
And I do recall people complaining every single time a virtual console game released for a system that was on the WiiShop. Now that they've moved on to GBA, DS, and Wii (and broke ground on N64 which was another huge complaint, even though it's not new), I noticed people start complaining that Nintendo is not releasing SNES games. But when they were releasing SNES games, it was all "move on to something new already". So I really feel like people are going to complain regardless of what happens.
But what I really like is the diversity in controller options compared to the Wii. No more plugging in a classic controller with a 12 inch cord to a Wiimote. No, we've got a solid pro controller this time around- completely wireless, we've got Wiimote if you like, Gamepad if you prefer, off TV play, multiple viewing options and pixel smoothing and all kinds of stuff we never saw on the Wii. And, it's high definition (most important part).
I've just noticed how many VC games have piled up in my menu folders- and it's a crapload. 89 games now spanning the NES, SNES, GBA, N64, DS and Wii. As long as I have another 89 by the end of the next two years, spread out across the latter 3 platforms, I'll be more than satisfied.
If Nintendo can port SNES games to the N3DS then all they have to do is wait for the money to roll in!
What are the Natsume snes games that are available in wii u vc?
But I still want Mario Paint though.
Nintendo shoots itself in the foot again
Sorry but Nintendo is phoning it in especially with the DS ports... Very very disappointed in Nintendo right now 😢😢😢
@Don not unless Square gives permission
And this is why I still have my old consoles. I will admit Nintendo sold me on the Wii with the VC but after that turned into a disaster I didn't put much faith in the Wii U library. If Nintendo was able to bring Earthbound to the Wii U VC their should be no reason why they can't other SNES games unless it's just laziness on their part.
So... the dismal Virtual Console is less because 3rd parties have been driven away and more that Nintendo is just plain screwing it up.
Well... that's... comforting?
I would love to play Starfox and Stunt Race FX again, unfortunately I don't think it will ever happen. These games are part of Nintendo's heritage yet they are not giving them the respect they deserve. Movies that are 20 or 30 years old are rereleased but classic games are not afforded the same respect, it's crazy!
I would be interested to see sales numbers for some of these VC games actually. I notice a lot of people getting angry when a game they want doesn't come (of course games like DKC being justified because those are obvious classics that will sell) but I'm guessing Nintendo has a lot more sales data to go on this time around than they did last generation when they first debuted Virtual Console.
They seem to be sticking to the bigger name and critically appraised titles, and tbh I'm ok with that. The only GBA game I still actually care about getting is Fire Emblem Sacred Stones, which will undoubtedly come since it's already released in Europe. And as long as they hit the top games for N64(F-Zero X, MK64, GoldenEye, etc- heck they already nailed it with DK64) I'll be pretty happy with the library.
All things considered, no other current gen console offers back catalogue like Nintendo does through Virtual Console, and with them covering new ground not seen before last gen with titles like Duck Hunt, Earthbound, Metroid Fusion, Fire Emblem and DK64, I'm pretty satisfied with the selection on offer now that they finally gave me my most wanted titles (DKC trilogy mainly).
Can't see Goldeneye ever coming out
Man, Wii U virtual console has been a total let down compared to the Wii.
Mmmh i guess that's okay. I can 't think of any more Snes games that would be a big deal, or i should say as big as getting more great GBA, DS and N64 games.
i would however like to get Tetris attack before it's all said and done.
@DiscoGentleman Lufia is a very good RPG, especially the sequel, however the Japanese version is better if you learn to read it. It's one of those cases when the translation changed the general feel of the story. All in all, the Japanese story is better told without any odd changes.
I'd like to see arcade games myself. They started on the Wii VC and then just abruptly stopped without getting to some really good stuff. I was glad to see Rygar, Ninja Gaiden but there are some really good games that never got released on any platform cept maybe PC emulation. SNES has some great titles but it seems most that are missing from Wii and Wii U are trademarked like Batman Returns, Tazmania, Roadrunner etc.
So many SNES classics left out.... Oh well. If this means more N64 (such as Mischief Makers, Bomberman 64, Excitebike 64, Castlevania 64, this will potentially be a massive list, etc.) then yes, leave the oldies behind and bring in the new!
I think part of it is less sales on SNES titles. I mean it's 8€ which is too much IMO unless you really want the game. Add to the fact that you may have played it already on your Wii or you'll only pay 1.50€ if you're upgrading from your Wii VC. I still want then to release Mario RPG and Chrono Trigger.
I am ok with this, I got lots of GB and a few GBC games on my 3DS because I actually havent played a lot of them. (also have the ambassador 3DS stuff.)
But for Wii U I didn't buy it for VC (or lack of it) I bought it for the NEW games, remakes, ect... if I want VC I'll use my Wii or 3DS and get whatever Nintendo has released that I don't have but want to buy and/or get.
Yes, let's release more GBA than SNES on Wii U, that totally makes a ton of sense right!!?
@thejfh1999 I know, I was already corrected and apologised, thanks
I do not mind if Nintendo does not bring any new SNES games to the Wii U VC, but I do hope that they at least continue to re-release SNES games that are available on the Wii VC for the Wii U VC. There is still a large number of SNES games that I can play by going into Wii mode on the Wii U, but I would much rather pay the £1.50 to instead play them on the Wii U.
lol. Maybe we should focus on buying new games... In 20 years from now people will finally buy Wonderfull 101 and Code Name S.T.E.A.M because old and nostalgic...
This sucks, SNES is one of my favourite systems. I'd love to see the Pocky & Rocky SNES games on Wii U VC, they're much better than the GBA game.
@Einherjar Complete rubbish a low end Android phone can run most games including Super FX chip 2 games DSP 1 games and all other games that use an additional chip on the cart flawlessly i know as ive been doing it recently.
Nintendo is like Apple. They don't listen to their customers and are very slow to release anything of interest. Enough of these newer "fancy pants" 3D games that take forever to make and start creating some retro style games. Time to go back to NES, SNES and N64 (low poly) graphics and spend more time on decent gameplay and story.
We have enough SNES games, we need N64 games and others.
"The publisher and Nintendo discuss which classic titles would be a good fit and have the best potential to sell." ...Really? I think not!
Just give me GBA and DS games for my 3DS. How hard can it be?
These games er perfect for the 3DS format. I do not want to play them on Wii U, but on a handheld system where they where meant to be played.
You know, the restore point isn't of much use to RPGs or Kiby's Avalanche, so just get them from the Wii Shop. Is it really that much of a hassle to boot up Wii Mode whenever you want to play them?
@dres I'm with you on the GBA games, but you do remember that the 3DS is already backwards compatible with the entire DS library, don't you?
"The publisher and Nintendo discuss which classic titles would be a good fit and have the best potential to sell"
If this really is the case then why hasn't Mario Party 3 for N64 been done yet? Might be a bit difficult now that Hudson Soft don't exist anymore technically.
@andyg1971 GoldenEye was never a possibility due to Microsoft owning the rights to the game engine and Activision owning the Bond game license. That's why they came out with GoldenEye Wii.
It's kind of annoying because I really don't like playing handheld games on the big screen and having to go into the Wii Menu to play some of my SNES games is frustrating. Big name titles like FFIII and SoM should be up front on the Wii U eShop, although I appreciate that Square seem to have lost all interest in the service in the west.
Anyway, feel less guilty about buying a SD2SNES now so there's always that
@TeeJay Ambassadors only got NES and GBA games, and none of them were in 3D.
@JaxonH Well, technically the Wii VC also allows off TV play on the Wii U. It's just somewhat awkward, as you have to have the GamePad either on your lap or in front of you on its stand while you hold a Wiimote or Classic Controller. Also, HD graphics are meaningless for straight emulation of older games that were never released in HD to begin with.
@Dodger: I don't get it either. And, for me, those games would have added value on the Wii U due to the superior controllers (gamepad and wii u pro) available for the Wii U, and due to offscreen play.
@XyVoX Holy moly, i start to sound like a parrot sigh
Android = open OS = not a dedicated gaming device = night and day yadda yadda.
It does make a huge difference if your device is equipped with multi purpose hardware and a somewhat open OS versus a games console with hardware especially catered towards its one and only purpose.
Honestly, this is just striking me as foolish. Virtual Console games, with few exceptions, take no effort to develop because the games are already finished; all that has to be done really is licensing.
There is no excuse for the Wii U VC having such a tiny catalogue.
@PlywoodStick Its Nintendo after all >_>
The games would still be programmed to take advantage of the chips, so you'd either have to rewrite code or emulate the FX chip's functions.
As far as licencing goes, the only issue I can think of is if Argonauts owns any of the code. I can't see how Nintendo wouldn't have made ownership of any and all code they made part of the deal though, Yamauch of all people would certainly have had that much sense.
This doesn't mean much. I reckon we'll still be getting SNES games nobody wants right up til the death of Wii U. I'm vainly waiting on:
Mortal Kombat 2
and so many more
If they would allow Wii shop content to have its own channels, leverage more internal memory to use the Wii VC side-by-side with Wii U VC then a lot of grousing would go away. I'd like to see Wii U versions with the added bells and whistles, but in the meantime better access to Wii content would be nice!
I'm not sure if buying VC games is really that smart in the long run as we'll likely have to buy them all again when the new account system is launched, or at least be faced with another 'upgrade fee'.
That said if SNES and GBA games come to 3DS I'd be all on it.
@BulbasaurusRex " Is it really that much of a hassle to boot up Wii Mode whenever you want to play them?"
Yes, yes it is. Know why? It's because the Wii Mode lacks the ability to fix the aspect ratio of the game. If I want to play a VC game in Wii Mode without it being stretched on my TV, I have to change from HDMI to Component cables so that my TV itself can do the aspect ratio work instead. It's a pain in the ass and you'll understand if I can't be bothered when I SHOULD be able to just buy the upgraded version.
I think it's awfully presumptuous of Nintendo to decide what platforms we want games from. They really ought to be picking good games regardless of system, and there are still PLENTY of great SNES titles left. Of course, the ongoing apathy from Squenix in the West even though they've been on board in Japan for well over a YEAR doesn't exactly help...
In the end, I think they'll still go back to SNES now and then because they just don't have very many platforms or all that many companies supporting it. They'll HAVE to just to get more content up at all.
Not sure what you mean by saying it's worthless to have a game in HD? The original resolution shouldn't matter- that's just because high definition didn't exist back then. But it exists now, and the games most definitely look better on HD display than standard. Especially with the older games-it's so crisp. The only time that I think HD works against the game is with some of the GameCube and Wii games that look better in SD because it allows the pixels to kind of blur together. I know my brother keeps an old school fat TV just for playing GC games...
@JaxonH Wii games look fine upscaled in 480p through HDMI using the Wii-U. Game Cube I just plug up the CRT since B/C is dead.
@Stuffgamer1 Have you even launched a VC game from within the Wii-U's Wii mode? All my Wii VC games are now properly pillarboxed on my HDMI monitor wheb run from the Wii-U. Only with the original Wii's component cables, was it necessary to bumble around with the aspect button. I'm using an ASUS monitor in DVI mode with the sound routed to my stereo. There is no aspect button on my monitor and Wii mode VC is perfectly pillarboxed.
What's a PITA with Wii mode is using classic controllers (which some gamers no don't have or got rid of) and the lack of off-screen Gamepad play. Sure you can display the game on the Gamepad screen, but the Gamepad is useless as a control method without a Wiimote and CC.
Yes they do. I typed that rushing out the door for work this morning- not thinking clearly and distracted.
I should have just put GameCube games.
That's a shame. I really want Pocky & Rocky.
This is why Nintendo needs a system in place that can accept all Virtual Console games regardless of system. So the work they did on Wii SNES Virtual Console wouldn't have been redundant when Wii U came along, and would still work when NX comes.
If Sony could get PS2 to emulate on PS3 through software alone, SNES should be something Nintendo can get to work. I guess they choose not to invest in that area, which is a shame as the VC was a major draw for me to buy an original Wii.
Still waiting for Secret of Mana...
Nintendo isnt taking advantage of the VC enough, so many games they could release that people would buy instantly.
Can I have a WiiU version of Secret of Mana and Mario RPG first Nitnendo?
The SNES is in my opinion the best system they've ever put out, it makes no sense not to draw from the hundreds of classic titles laying there waiting to be played again. I would love to see them put out titles like Shadowrun or Secret of Mana
@Ristar42 PS3 did not emulate PS2; it had PS2 hardware built in. Well the PS3 slim does emulate the PS1. It works well enough for me to play a handful of PS1 games on it.
Wii has native B/C with Game Cube (well the original model) and emulates NES, SNES, N64, and 3rd party consoles officially. Wii-U lacks the proper hardware for Game Cube much like 3DS lacks the proper hardware for GBA. But Nintendo kludged in support for GBA VC on 3DS and homebrew exploits have revealed that a similar mode is possible to run Game Cube code on Wii-U, albeit without controllers.
FX chip is a thorn in the side of Nintendo. They've done DSP1, SA-1, the Megaman X2/3 chip, so the FX is a mystery. If they can handle N64, they can do FX. N64 is vastly more complex and higher clocked than FX2.
There may or may not be legal/patent issues; I don't know.
Well, I was hoping to upgrade Super Mario RPG and Indiana Jones' Greatest Adventures, since those are the last two SNES games I have stuck on the Wii Menu. Oh well... At least I can look forward to upgrading Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Yoshi's Story, Paper Mario, Mario Kart 64, and Super Smash Bros. And then wait patiently for them to get on the stick for SEGA Genesis.
@StarDust4Ever Not the later PS3 consoles, there is no hardware support there for Playstation 2, its emulation - check the digital foundry article on the subject from 2012.
I was confused why all the wii VC games had not just been ported over to the Wii U eshop, or given the same ability as the Wii games. Just put an icon on the Wii U menu and go into Wii mode in the background. Allow the Wii U gamepad to act as a Pro Controller and just about everyone would be happy.
In fact I would celebrate by purchasing Final Fantasy IV and VI again.
The only SNES games I care about are Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Super Castlevania IV, and Donkey Kong Country 1-3. So I really am fine with them moving on now that all those games are available.
Am I the only one who actually likes GBA games on the Wii U since I can play them on a TV? Maybe it's because I never had a GameCube with a Game Boy Player...
Even when Nintendo decides certain games are a good fit for Wii U, they hum-haw around with regional releases that are months and months apart. Virtual Console is a hot, honey boo-boo mess on Wii U in North America and they refuse to address the problem except by occasionally saying "LOOK! WE'RE DOING GAMES FROM (insert classic system name here) NOW!", then releasing one game from the announced system each week for a month after, then nothing else for months. Where are the Wii games they made such a big deal out of at the first of the year? Why are so many games (Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Metroid Zero Mission, Final Fantasy games, etc) available in other regions, but not in NA? They never follow through with anything beyond a one-month window following an announcement. I foresee us not getting another N64 or DS game until around fall/Christmas time after they release their 4 piddly little games they promised in the Direct.
@Stuffgamer1 Well, that is a legitimate complaint, but the issue is more that you're unlucky in your choice of TV. Most HDTVs have a 4:3 format option without needing to switch cables.
So when will Nintendo decide to bring Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones to the US?
@JaxonH HDTVs can't just create extra pixels that don't exist in the game. All HD can do is upscale it by duplicating pixels where they best fit. If anything, it should look slightly worse due to the imperfect modification of the original graphics design in the same way as a blown-up bitmap file. I suppose if you're using a screen smoothing option on your TV it could look sharper, but that's only going to add to the input delay, which is already bad enough for some of these games. Playing on the GamePad is really the best option for some genres like platformers, fighters, shooters, and sports games, even as awkward as it is to use for the ones in Wii Mode.
Well of course it doesn't create pixels, but what it does do is displays the ones that are there is crystal clear perfection. After playing NES games on Wii U I really wouldn't want to play them in standard res again- each pixel is just so clean and sharp. Especially N64 games- wow do they look good when it's crystal clear and not blurry.
EDIT: I do love the Gamepad for VC though. The res is good enough (especially with the smaller screen) and it feels like playing the games on a handheld (a big screen handheld, the 72 incher of all handhelds lol)
Every year or so, I imagine what would happen if we traveled to a parallel, alternate Earth and asked our counterparts what happened.
"You guys still have WAR?"
"Oh no, the asteroid completely missed earth, we're all super highly evolved dinosaurs. That's why we're several millenia ahead of you technologically".
And my new favorite "Oh, you guys on Earth-10 only released like 10 SNES games? Yeah, we just hired 100 out-of-work programmers to port our entire SNES library onto the Wii U. We LITERALLY made 10 trillion dollars the next day. We took over Apple, Microsoft, and Sony a month later. We're taking over all the cellphone companies next, too!"
I'm glad they are moving on because that means the N64 will be getting more attention, though I really, really, really want Nintendo to release the original Star Fox.
The virtual console situation is mostly because third parties don't care to put their games on the service.Nintendo has put almost all of their Nes and Snes games on the service.The drip feed was because Nintendo was trying to make the few games they had access to last.Call your favorite third parties and ask for them to put their games on the virtual console service.
If I don't see Zombies ate my Neighbors soon on the Wii U Virtual Console, I will be done with Nintendo period!
Funny, N64 games on WiiU is retro virtual console titles. On 3DS its full priced retail titles.
@leahjames1311 Ask Capcom to put it on!
@Spoony_Tech You don't think the Shop in the Wii Channel will eventually close up cutting us off from the VC games contained within? Or just that it's so far off yet as to not care?
@Yorumi I said mostly.
Who didn't see this coming? Nintendo has clearly been more interested in GBA for the last year, and with N64 and DS now in the fray, something had to give, thanks to Nintendo's head-scratching policy of not releasing more than one new game per week outside of a few rare exceptions.
To be honest, I don't have a ton of games left for NES and SNES that I want; I just hope Nintendo doesn't slack on the N64 line-up so soon after starting it (Paper Mario seems to be the only new title announced right now).
Nintendo only has 21 more games to release outside of japan on Nes,Snes,and GBA. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015363
There is a list in the link. I predict that after Nintendo releases the last games from the list that they will move totally to Wii and DS.
This is complete nonsense and confirms my belief that Nintendo is behind the whole thing!! What? So They can't walk and chew gum and support multiple classic platforms simultaneously?? A big company like them?? I want POCKY & ROCKY 1&2 along with soooo many others!! They should be posting 1 game per platform every Thursday not just 1 single vc game!! Totally ridiculous!!
This is one of many reasons why they're dead last in the console race!! Just stupid!!
I remember the wii had 3-5 vc games a week and I had to budget my money to choose which games were priority! Not so here...😡
And you can all kiss the month of May goodbye cause that will be ALL MEGA MAN games! So anyone NOT interested in mega man has to wait all the way till June to see what's next being that Nintendo is also apparently incapable of making a vc release schedule!! Ugh!!
Also from the same thread, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015363 Why the shortages and why no universal emulator?
Why are there platform availability differences, as well as why there's no cross-buy?
Because Nintendo got some weird licensing deals with various companies regarding releases of their titles. Remember stuff getting removed from Wii VC on Wii U launch? Yeah, this sort of thing.
There are some poor souls which will purchase the same game twice. Sometimes, no cross-buy is also enforced by licensing deals.
This didn't necessarily need to extend to all titles. Imagine the accusation windmill that would happen if some titles were cross-buy and some wouldn't, though. Way easier to just cut it out and make nothing cross-buy by default.
Iwata's shareholder talks imply that beginning with their next system or something, availability of things is going to get better.
Why Nintendo releases each emulated title as a normal title instead of DLC for an emulator app?
There are absolutely no dev time advantages for this, there may in fact be disadvantages. On Wii they already used a single emulator for a platform 99% of the time (they updated it for newer releases, but it was the same thing), configured with an extra file appended to everything. The only real technical disadvantage is waste of space. Nobody nowadays cares about space sadly. The advantage of this model is that they don't break already released games when emulator is actually updated. If you weren't aware, they did something very similar with the whole "not-really-OS" of Wii - they kept old versions for old games, updating them only for bugs regarding these old games.
So this means no Super Mario RPG and no SNES Yoshi's Island?? Nintendo needs to fire whoever its in charge of Virtual Console on Wii U.
@HollywoodHogan Except the emulation on all those emulator are so horrible that my phone can run them at better quality and the PC can run them with out audio screw ups and at a stable 60 fps (something I need to actually get the combos in Mother 3). Their is no reason to use those homebrew apps unless you're really poor.
Anyway, so no Mario Paint, StarFox, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, or Pocky & Rocky 1 and 2? Someone has no idea what they're doing.
@thesilverbrick I have stunt race bro...didn't age well lol but still wouldn't hurt for them to post it in the vc eshop! A little variety would be nice!!
Well, that sucks. Nintendo seems to want to aggravate the very people who have kept this system afloat. Oh, well...
Would be nice if all the SNES titles on WiiVC would at least come over to WiiU and also as for new titles, I would MUCH rather play an SNES original than the GBA remake that they're trying to pawn off on us.
Oh great, the one SNES game I wanted I can discount ever coming back.
Geonjaha suggests that Nintendo never cared about Virtual Console in the first place. When was the last time we got anything from the VC on the 3DS? 5 months ago? Yeah.
I'd be highly disappointed. I still need Star Tropics on my 3DS, and Act Raiser and Ka-Blooey on my Wii U!
@BulbasaurusRex I was under the impression that this was a normal failing of using HDMI because the connected device is supposed to control the TV directly. I dunno, it sure does suck at any rate. There's also remappable buttons as another benefit to Wii U VC, of course. All in all, it's just something they should do...the good by all rights should overpower the bad in this scenario.
@bofis There are only five more SNES games that Nintendo has access to that they have not brought to Wii U.Third parties ,with some exceptions, are not interested in the virtual console.
Wonder if it's so they can focus on bringing it to mobile... If so I'd rather play on the big screen
Some Neo Geo games would be great...
@Yorumi Ahh, the experts speaking again
You know, youre not wrong. Its absolutely possible to simply "port" stuff over to a consoles OS.
And then you get to its hardware, which behaves quite a lot different.
Remember how long it took PSP hackers to unlock the PSPs full processing power ? Even with a custom firmware, it took them quite some time to get its hardware to do what they wanted it to do, even such a "simple" thing like a software limitation on the systems CPU.
Or take the Wii for instance. Another system that pretty much cracked wide open, with full access for modders and hackers.
The Wii has GameCube hardware build into it. And yet, if you want to run GC images, it has to be done via DiosMios, because even though they seemingly have full controll over the system and its OS, its impossible to trigger it to use the inbuild GC hardware to run GC image files natively.
Console Hardware and OSs are, more often then not, rather specific in what they can and cant do, even if you have full access to everything.
Such hardware bottlenecks are no issues on platforms like, say, the PC.
Quite the opposite.
"Disappointed" doesn't even begin to describe it.
@KnightRider666 Here we are again my friend talking about Nintendo dropping the ball on VC. This has been a problem now for 2 years. I guess they just don't want to pay someone to do the bulk of the work like the article mentions. There are so many games just floating around out there that would make them some money this almost seems just silly.
@Yorumi Yup, im glad you know me so well my friend
If i ever need to write an application for something, ill ask you. You seem to be better informed then i am
@Yorumi Oh, hi Mr. Computer Program, nice to meet you.
Its almost cute how far off the point you always are in knowing what exactly others were talking about and what not
So, have your stage and entertain your audience
This is just great. Sarcastically speaking, of course.
What's mind-boggling is that the Wii U has NES, SNES, GBA, N64 and NDS, while the 3DS is still suck with the barely-supported GB, GBC and NES.
I'm mad both for myself, as 3DS is my primary console, and for those who mainly use the Wii U, as Nintendo should support all retro consoles individually in my opinion.
And no, I'm not going to pay for a GBA game that needs me to be at home in order to be played. Not anytime soon.
Thing is, with the Game Boy Player (which I own) it makes sense, because none of the GBA games lose their primary feature: being portable. But once you buy a PORTABLE game on the WiiU, can you play it on your 3DS? No, of course. Which is the main issue I have with this. It's nauseatingly stupid, and makes sense only from a business standpoint on Nintendo's part, meaning that on a consumer's standpoint, it's a stupid disservice. I hope there will be great news for VC at this year's E3, and the delay for the Wii U Zelda title actually makes me feel more optimistic given VC titles are usually kept as damage contr--er, I mean, as surprises.
Wise words. If a hacker is good enough to crack a console, they should hire him instead of getting him either in jail or in courtrooms. Hacking means bypassing a clever protection, and that's a sign of good programming. But alas...
@Yorumi WHAT!? You're a computer program!? Are you the world's first true AI!?
Well, I already have most of the interesting Snes games (either as a cartridge or a Wii vc download). I still would like Bubsy though (yeah, laugh all you want! But I played it many times at a friend of mine, and I loved it!)! And maybe even Bubsy 2, since I never played that one.
Nintendo is just plain outta their minds!!
The Snes and the Nes had 700-800 games in each library!! Hell I can sound off 30-40 snes titles alone! POCKY & ROCKY 1&2- UN Squadron - Knights of the Round- Magic Sword- Yoshi's Island - Uniracer- Sunset Riders- Ken Griffey's winning run- Super play action football- Super Mario RPG- Tin Star- Ms Pac Man- Mega man soccer- Atari's greatest hits vol 1- Williams greatest hits vol 1- Yoshi's cookie- Kirby's Avalanche - Space invaders - Star fox- Stunt Race FX- Metal Marines- Twin bee series- caveman ninja- Joe n Mac 1&2- Rocky Rodent and quite a few others Nintendo!! This is total BS!!!! Hire some people!! Stop being cheap!!!
The SNES has one of the best gaming libraries of all Nintendo systems. I understand that getting the proper licenses and whatever else you need to sell 3rd-party games can be hard, and the emulation process even harder. I've long since accepted the fact that most of my fave 3rd-party games of the NES and SNES will never reach the Virtual Console, BUT they shouldn't give up on the SNES, especially first-party titles.
@JaxonH A pixel is just a tiny square dot at any decent resolution. There's no way to make it any sharper or less blurry. Sure, it wouldn't look as good on an old analog CRT set (although that does have the benefit of absolutely no input delay), but any digital SD set would display it just as well.
@Stuffgamer1 Maybe it does, but I can confirm that my TV displays the aspect ratio properly in Wii Mode.
The practical truth is I played video games growing up on a standard res TV from about 1989 to 2007. And in those 18 years, those games were always blurry because the resolution wasn't sharp enough.
Ever since I got a high definition television and have played virtual console games that are displayed on a high definition screen,I''ve loved it because the difference is night and day. The games aren't blurry anymore.
That's the advantage I was referring to. I think people are overthinking this and/or trying to make it more complex than it should be. It's just the simple fact that high definition TVs display things in high definition, and that looks better.
@JaxonH The technical truth is that HDTVs can only display things in high definition that were made in high definition, which didn't happen until the PS3 and X360. Anything from 32/64 bit era to the Wii wouldn't look blurry at all in Digital SD, since they were designed and created from the ground up for SD and were powerful enough to support the full resolution of most sized SDTVs.
As for earlier games (which look nicer in Digital SD anyway, which I highly doubt you had back in 1989), the only thing an HDTV can do is upscale the resolution and apply a screen-smoothing technique. It's not true HD, and while it probably does look nicer, you're paying for it with increased input lag with the extra processing the TV is constantly required to do for the smoothing. It's up to you if you think it's worth it, but personally I prefer to be able to make the jumps properly in my Super Mario games (for example) over any graphical increase.
I don't know about all this Digital SD stuff you're talking about.
All I know is when I play Mega Man 3 on an old school TV it looks blurry, and when I play it on my Wii U with an HDTV it's crystal clear.
@technotreegrass A lot of people seem to be getting the wrong idea. Natsume was specifically talking about their titles, not the entire SNES library. On top of that they said it was unlikely, but not ruled out completely. I don't think Nintendo would just rule out SNES VC all of the sudden. It's just going to take time to release everything and right now they seem to be jumping around different console ports to establish a variety. I'm sure we will see more SNES ports in the future but perhaps nothing from Natsume anytime soon.
The only PS3's that could play PS2 games did so because they literally had PS2 hardware inside them, exactly the same way the GBA was able to play GB and GBC games, because it literally had Game Boy hardware crammed inside.
Here is a picture of the original 60GB PS3 board, and when you look at it, the big chip that says "Emotion Engine" is actually the PS2 hardware. Later it seems they tried to do it in emulation, but dropped the entire thing as, I'm sure, it was ultimately an unnecessary expense that was rarely used by consumers.
@BulbasaurusRex Yeah, SMW was completely unplayable on vc. I had trouble jumping the whole time.
A very informative article. Thanks NL for taking the time to shed some light on the vc situation. Lord knows nintendo wasn't going to utter a peep on the matter.
@JaxonH If by old school TV, you mean an analog CRT set, then yes there can be some blurriness, although less with later models. However, there are also flat-screen LCD and other digital sets that were made before HD became popular that only display an SD resolution but still provide a crystal-clear picture of SD broadcasts compared to old CRT sets. Then again, those TVs also introduce input delay, so it's still a trade-off no matter which way you go; whether it's input delay on a gorgeous modern TV screen, no input delay with blurrier graphics on a CRT TV screen, or no input delay on a crisp yet relatively tiny GamePad screen.
I was born in the early 80's so I never had those transitional flat screen fat TVs. I only ever had the old school, OLD OLD school fat TVs, before HD was ever a thing, and then jumped straight to HD flatscreen about 8 years ago.
I have never noticed input delay on any TV, system or game in my life. I always hear people talking about it but it's just one of those things that have been too negligible for me to notice. Only exception would be playing PS4 games streaming to Vita- that's just an awful experience that I'd rather never experience again. Oh, and PS Now had like full 1 second delay when I tried that, but both of those examples involved the Internet.
@evosteevo I'll buy that for a dollar lol!! Makes sense! Here's hoping you turn out to be right!!
Nintendo needs to continue getting old VC games onto the eShop if only because **** "Nintendo Points".
<sees Chrono Trigger> Man, I'd be fine if they hold off on getting that on eShop's VC if only to release Chrono Trigger DS. I'd say the same for the "Finest Fantasy for Advance" set, but only if they use the EU ROMs for FFIV/V/VI; in all cases, bugs were ironed out, but EU FFIVA runs entirely better than the boggy mess we got in the States, such that Japan saw a re-release with those fixes in place (plus, all three's English tracks are American-style, so no culture-shock on our end).
No problem for me, I can play all these old games in emulators on my computer.
Nintendo needs new games and remakes of older ones with updated graphics.
@Quorthon Yep, thats right, I was citing how PS2 classics on PSN are therefore a pretty impressive bit of software emulation. I know only particular early models of PS3, with the additional hardware, play actual PS2 discs.
It wasnt dropped though for digital purchases, I can play PS2 games I have downloaded on my PS3 Slim and light - I'm playing Deus Ex at the moment!
They are still releasing PS2 classics on PS3 in 2015.
@JaxonH "And I do recall people complaining every single time a virtual console game released for a system that was on the WiiShop. Now that they've moved on to GBA, DS, and Wii (and broke ground on N64 which was another huge complaint, even though it's not new), I noticed people start complaining that Nintendo is not releasing SNES games. But when they were releasing SNES games, it was all "move on to something new already". So I really feel like people are going to complain regardless of what happens."
I don't care at all what system the game was originally for, as long as it's awesome.
Hope we'll get Ninja Warriors from the snes one day
@XyVoX How dare you run that illegal emulation stuff! You're ruining the whole industry with your illegal emulation!
That's how absurd some people on here sound.
@Miyamotoo Huh? We have enough SNES games? 3DS doesn't have ANY SNES games.
@sketchturner You might be content, but us 3DS users have no reason to be.
I'd prefer to play SNES on my 3DS, but for now the only way I have to play SNES on a handheld is with emulators on my PSP and Vita.
@Einherjar I would like to point out that you regularly behave in the same manner you're ridiculing Yorumi for behaving.
Just release all the games. You have games I want. I'm willing to pay you for them? What's the problem? Do you not want to make money nintendo?
I'm assuming Nintendo just built an emulator and all they have to do is plug the games in. I can't imagine they are porting the code of each game individually.
Also, everything available on the wii virtual console should be on the WiiU already. If you paid for the right to play a game, you shouldnt be restricted on which platform you play it on. That's how the world works now. I don't have to pay steam to upgrade a game to play on my laptop instead of PC. If there were graphical enhancements or extra work put into the game that would be reasonable. But nothing else has been added.
Make a call to Sega, Konami (Hudson), and SNK already.
What is taking so long?
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