The delay of The Legend of Zelda on Wii U was undoubtedly disappointing for fans excited about its original 2015 release, but many reacted with a degree of acceptance - better to wait longer for a classic than have an underwhelming end result was a common refrain. We suggested the delay was perhaps good for the game, but left a large gap in the Wii U's release schedule, especially in the vital end-of-year Holiday shopping season. Though we feel that's the case, it wasn't our suggestion that it was an issue that will definitely go unresolved; part of the intrigue is waiting to see how Nintendo's 2015 line-up for Wii U will evolve. E3 will apparently be all about 2015 games, so there are likely to be some surprises on the way.
Since The Legend of Zelda's delay we've seen plenty of commentary, often presented reasonably and with plenty of logic, that the delay - along with the recent brief reveal of the codenamed Nintendo NX - brings us the beginning of the end for Wii U. Conversations turn to the next Zelda game perhaps even slipping from the Wii U to Nintendo's next hardware, while others simply feel it's the sign that the current-gen system is being slowly abandoned. It's not inconceivable that those points of view could be right, but we also feel it's far too early to write off the Wii U and make that call just yet.
First of all, let's consider the argument that the brief tease of the Nintendo NX was a sign that Nintendo's moving on. We're not sure the timelines stack up for this, as it stands, while the context of the announcement was key. Satoru Iwata has stated, quite clearly, that the timing of the tease was to assuage concerns fans had at the announcement of the smart device and Membership program deal with DeNA. The logic was simple - in confirming an aggressive move toward smartphone games, Iwata-san felt compelled to demonstrate that Nintendo is still committed to dedicated hardware. He said the following in the Q & A for that DeNA announcement.
Nintendo will firmly continue its core business. The biggest reason (why I mentioned "NX" today) was that I wanted to eliminate such misunderstandings as we made the smart device announcement today because Nintendo is pessimistic about the future for the dedicated game system business.
Details on the NX project won't be announced until 2016, so if we consider the typical timeline for a console reveal and release, the soonest we can sensibly expect the hardware is Holiday 2016; that would be a tight turnaround, too. We could even be looking at a 2017 arrival for the system - if our thought that the NX could be a unified platform to potentially replace both 3DS and Wii U is correct, the late 2016 to mid-2017 window would give us a fairly long 3DS generation, and drag Wii U to a just-about-respectable 4-5 years.
Whatever the case, we suspect Nintendo will want to keep the Wii U ticking along, as a minimum, until that time comes. This year's line-up is a good case and point, with a batch of exciting or promising titles that can, with strategic release dates, arrive with decent regularity for the rest of 2015. The Legend of Zelda is a loss for the Holiday season, yes, but we shouldn't assume that the line-up we've seen for Wii U so far is all that's coming this year; precedent tells us that won't be the case - there are always additional surprises.
As we've argued before, the test for Nintendo is finding a key hit (or two) that can drive sales in that vital end-of-year period. The fact is there may be key arrivals pegged (internally) in for that time, potentially to be revealed in the upcoming Nintendo Direct or even at E3. There are unsubstantiated rumours - that we haven't reported due to the absence of legitimate source - naturally doing the rounds, but we'll have a better idea soon enough.
There's also Nintendo's company culture to consider. We've often seen that Nintendo is relatively happy to try ideas or deal with an under-performing product if it can turn an overall profit to keep shareholders appeased. Despite the Wii U's struggles and financial losses Satoru Iwata has remained in the top job, and from a game perspective development appears to have ticked along in a state of 'business-as-usual'. The creative side of the business does often successfully stay in a bubble away from the stresses of share values, and the Wii U remains - at least for Shigeru Miyamoto and talented up-and-comers - a platform ripe for experimentation. Projects like Splatoon, Mario Maker and Star Fox all seem to be designed to produce fresh gameplay with the GamePad, or in the case of Mario Maker to further test the waters in user creation and content sharing on a significant scale.
When Nintendo ditches Wii U we'll really know it, as it'll be just like late 2011 and the whole of 2012 for Wii. With the Wii U on the horizon the last-gen system was well-and-truly dropped, with Nintendo making little effort to help it through its last year. We're a long way from that stage with the current system.
Ultimately, when it comes to perceptions of Nintendo's commitment to Wii U, it's all relative. Many companies would consider abandoning a system with the Wii U's sales to die a quiet death, yet Nintendo's not doing that right now. As a system it'll be third in its generation behind PS4 and Xbox One, and it has a battle on its hands to even match the lifetime sales of the GameCube; it could end its life as Nintendo's lowest selling home console. Yet Nintendo's corporate culture is often one of self-confidence and long-term thinking. It occasionally makes knee-jerk decisions, like the substantial 3DS price cut in Fall 2011, but it also takes its sweet time while some scream that it's behind the curve. Just look how long it took for it to 'break' and move into smart device games.
As we see it the delay of The Legend of Zelda is simply that - a delay to the game while the development team tries to make the best possible game. We're not convinced, at this stage, that it's a pre-cursor to stepping away from the Wii U; it's simply too early to make that statement with confidence.
Don't give up on the Wii U yet, we're pretty sure Nintendo hasn't.
Comments 252
Yeah, they're gonna stick with it, and I'm certain we'll have another mighty nice release released by year's end. Star Fox, anyone?
I just want something new to play on Wii U! I am beginning to really feel down about the lack of support on Wii U, which is obvious and painfully capable of much, much more. It's not helping that I am currently only playing GameCube and notice the staggering amount of variety on it's library when stacking both up together (of course, the GameCube has more life years than the Wii U, but the lack of Wii U's third party support is beginning to really show). I would love to see something "Starfox" tomorrow but I think I will need to wait till e3 for that. Nintendo Directs kinda renew my hope in the system and always make me feel great by their conclusion, I hope the same thing happens tomorrow.
I think Zelda will be the full stop punctuating the Wii U, like Skyward Sword sort of was with the Wii. Even if it's not, were closer to the end than the beginning. But I still want to play the announced games, and I'm guessing they'll be another 4 or 5 we don't know about yet here and there. Also I would like to go back and revisit a few I rushed through the first time. It's been a great console.
I can't stand some people. I even saw somebody say: "The new Zelda game is gonna be on the NX now! LOL!" Even though we already saw them SHOW OFF how the game would be used on the Wii U gamepad, so clearly they're abandoning it.
The NX is going to be shown off in 2016. Who knows if we'll actually get it then? The earliest it'll come is Nov/Dec 2016.
Nintendo is still supporting the Wii U and they're (hopefully) going to shut up their doubters with this Direct. There will be plenty of quality titles coming and the hype will be back.
Why would anyone think the new loz won't be playable on Wii U? The only time something similar happened, they released BOTH GameCube and Wii versions of twilight princess, which is a much better precedent to look at.
I'm sure to get X now, I just hope they don't push it back to be their winter title since I think it makes more sense for it to be the long term summer game. Zelda will now probably be holiday next year, but you got to think they already had a game for that time, probably Metroid with the way things look. So how is this going to shake up the release schedule overall?
You're not gonna like this comment but in terms of competing with the PS4 & X1, being salvagable or being positioned as many people's go to platform (First & Third party wise), the Wii U is already written off.
With or without Zelda, Wii U is written off anyways.
I haven't given up on the WiiU. I already own it and I have fun playing the games. But there will be much less buzz and far fewer sales in the holiday season without Zelda.
Excellent topic. I feel exactly the same. Announcing the "NX" or delaying the Zelda means nothing to be honest. "NX" is still in the timeline of 5~6 year turnaround for gens. And even if it is early, 4~5 years, we still have at least another 2 in my honest opinion. And Zelda games have a ~5 year turn around. WW was 2002, TP was 2006. Skyward was in 2011. Next should be 2016, no? Even if you show that OoT -> MM was a year and a half, and MM -> was 2.5 years, really the time between the major (console) releases has slowly widened. If we went off the extreme, I would expect it late 2017. But I fully expect it around Nov.-Dec. 2016
Abandoning? Probably not. Quietly forgetting? Yes.
To the investors it's something that's not talked about
We probably won't see too much about the holiday tomorrow in the ND, it will focus on Splatoon, Mario Maker and Yoshi which were all supposed to be out in 1st half of 2015. They all won't be, but should still be out before summer is over.
Starfox should get some time tomorrow, and since it was said at that awards show Starfox would most certainly be out before Zelda that could be the big holiday game.
E3 is 2 1/2 months away, that will cover the holidays more in depth and detail w/ hopefully at least 1 new game for the holidays. Probably a Super Mario Sunshine HD remaster or a Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 package.
Wii U still has probably another 2 years left though. We still haven't gotten a Paper Mario or a baseball or soccer Mario game. And amiibo have just begun, there are probbaly a couple of big games in the work sfo rthem over thenext couple of years as well.
One thing that would help Wii U is what games aren't coming out on Wii. I can't help but think Wii U sales might pick up a bit when SKyalnders and Just Dance games stop getting Wii releases. Not a huge tidal wave of hardware sales, but some people who get the new games every year will need to upgrade to keep playing.
And Nintendo needs to get the $99 Wii Mini off the shelves next to the Wii U. Seriously, why are those still in stock? And drop the price to $249 pronto, and Black Friday needs $199 sales.
But tomorrows ND really has nothing not do w/ the life and death of the Wii U, its just about this year, most this summer really.
The only people writing off the Wii U because of a Zelda delay are the same people who wrote it off already for reason a, b, or c, and are just coming back to troll. Keep feeding them, tho, it makes the comments section fun, if not a bit predictable.
Wii U is doooooomed!!!
inb4 Nintendo cancels Splatoon, Mario Maker, Woolly World, X, and some other big game I can't think of at the moment. lol
@Punished_Boss_84 This comment
I'm pretty sure Nintendo has given up on the Wii U, just like just about everybody else. When was the last new game announcement? E3 last year?
There is almost no third party support. There are very few games coming out.
Also, keep in mind that Zelda has not been given a release window--not even "2016," just "when it's done." What that instantly reminds me of is Twilight Princess--I fully expect Zelda U to become Zelda NX and skip this platform entirely, or end up on both.
The Wii U is already entering it's dismal final years mirroring the nigh-empty final years of the N64, GameCube, and Wii. This year will be it's peak, and the sales are still pitiful. As I've noted before, it's selling slower than the Dreamcast and the GameCube--and I will remind that Nintendo indicated that "selling below the GameCube" would be considered a failure.
There is also good reason to be concerned with Nintendo potentially spreading themselves too thin--3DS, Wii U, mobile, NX, and Quality of Life. Following Nintendo's history over the past three generations, we have very good reason to suspect that the Wii U will have less and less to offer--because historically, once the next platform is announced, the current one enters a swift decline as Nintendo reallocates their already limited resources to develop and ready the next console.
I hate to say it, but the Wii U was written off a long time ago by almost everyone but a small, dedicated fanbase that chooses which news garners their attention. Hell, Nintendo never even used the GamePad for any of the amazing innovations they promised of the device. At best, it's a map screen that isn't even an improvement from just pressing a button to bring it up on-screen. At worst--and we've seen this from Nintendo--it's nothing but a bulky controller.
Nintendo limited the hardware to make a controller consumers hate.
The limited hardware and typically odd adversarial attitude of Nintendo fans drove off third party support.
Nintendo has had lengthy delays of almost every game for the platform, and missed having major titles for every single holiday season (2015 included).
Nintendo slashed their marketing budget.
They refuse to drop the price to garner sales.
They killed Club Nintendo with no clear plan to replace it--and it looks like we won't see the replacement until fall or winter of 2015.
It's not too early to write off the Wii U, unfortunately. From the perspective of many in the industry, this is just coming to a realization many had a long time ago. And not just because of Zelda. That's just one more nail in the coffin.
It doesn't really matter to me. When I buy a console, I plan on playing it for the rest of my life. My NES and SNES and Genesis are still hooked up to my CRT tv and I play them often.
@Punished_Boss_84 - I don't think it's a matter of comparing Wii U Sales w/ PS4 and XBO so much as, is Wii U the next Dreamcast or not? Will Nitneod themselves continue to make Wii U games for another 1, 2 or 3 years or will they abandon it for NX (whatever the heck that is?). Will people pick up the console after it hits $199? (I bought my Gamecube 2 days after it hit $99.)
So just saying Wii U can't compare to the other 2 doesn't really tell the whole story, it's more will the Wii U sell 12 mil or 18mil in it's lifetime.
And what's with the qualifier, going soft?
@rjejr I completely agree about the mini. I can't belive someone wasn't fired over that idea.
I really really really hope they do in fact push the new Zelda onto the NX, or do a cross-gen release.
If the NX doesn't have some great games at launch it's going to flounder just as much as the Wii U did.
Much rather have a strong debut for the next system than a strong swansong for the current system.
I gave up on the Wii U long before the delay. This is just one more in a long line of blows. For the record though, I absolutely don't believe this has anything to do with putting it on the NX. That idea is completely absurd to me, and so is the idea that the NX will come out any time soon. End of 2017 at the earliest, and there's no way they would delay Zelda for two years just for that.
Most titles revealed at E3 are meant for the year of the event. But they usually show a few things for next year. Seems odd how everyone is acting like there's nothing for 2016 when focusing on the current year is the norm.
A lot is riding on this one Nintendo Direct. Don't let us down, Ninty!
@LordGeovanni
When you guys defend the NX timing with "this is perfectly in line with Nintendo's schedule," you're totally overlooking that it is outside of the schedule of the rest of the industry, and that is what matters.
At this point, NX will be launching when the XBO and PS4 are at their absolute strongest. Nintendo has still not rebuilt relations with 3rd party developers or publishers, and unless they're doing that now, NX will be launching from a losing position.
On top of which, mid-gen hardware releases have a terrible history in gaming--look no further than the Jaguar, 3DO, 32X, or Dreamcast. The Atari 7800 launched late and died fast.
Almost nothing in modern gaming is defined by Nintendo. They are irrelevant in the hardware space, and after Wii U, it's going to be a lot harder to get third parties on board.
Yeah, yeah, I know a lot of fanboys like to lie to themselves and pretend 3rd parties don't matter. But the reality is that yes, they do. For one thing, without many 3rd party games, most consumers won't give Nintendo even a consideration. I can't play Fallout or Elder Scrolls or Doom, or any EA or 2K game on the Wii U, for instance. So that prevents a certain audience from caring, and as we've seen, Mario and Zelda no longer sell hardware to anyone but the already-converted.
Third parties help fill the void left by the fact that Nintendo clearly cannot support two pieces of hardware, by themselves, at once. Third parties help pad the shelves in stores so that consumers see large available libraries. Right now, the library of games in stores for the 3DS, Wii U, and remaining Wii games all take up less space than the PS4 by itself. Consumers translate this variety into value.
@DarthNocturnal
Almost every game coming to the Wii U this year was announced a year or two ago. We have nothing announced that would align with a 2016 release, outside of maybe Zelda, which I now expect to see moved to NX, if it is indeed a console.
@Quorthon Actually the most recent new Wii U game announcement was in the January Direct (Project Treasure). While it isn't something big, why would you announce something big for Wii U when a new console (New 3DS) is launching only a month later.
Why would anyone keep this console relevant? Let this system die and at least give the new console a chance to survive with the New Zelda launched with it.But that's me. Now for the Wiiu topic just like @Quorthon said "but the Wii U was written off a long time ago by almost everyone but a small, dedicated fanbase that chooses which news garners their attention." Some Nintendo fans gotta learn the Wiiu was a failure, a failure with great games next to it's name.
@rjejr
Unless the NX crashes and burns hard upon release, the Wii U (if it's a console) will be quietly retired almost immediately. If NX is a replacement for 3DS, that'll be gone within a year.
If it replaces both, neither will last another year after NX releases. If, IF it sells at all.
@Grumblevolcano
RIGHT! That kept bugging me. I was certain there was another Wii U announcement more recently than E3 2014, but couldn't remember what it was. Boy, that doesn't bode well. That game was easy to forget about.
There's like 5 new Wii U doom and gloom threads a day now, it's getting ridiculous
Also crossing my fingers that we hear more on Wii downloadable games, since it's been months, or finally getting to those DS games.
@DerpSandwich
I'd like to point out that what you say has "no way" of happening--did happen with Twilight Princess on the GameCube. Granted, it still found release on both GC and Wii, but the GC version was released later, and quietly compared to the "new way to play" version.
Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Twilight_Princess#Development
Nintendo announced Twilight Princess was in development in 2003 for the GameCube. After lengthy delays, it announced in 2006--for the Wii. For about half the regions, the GC version launched after the Wii version.
@Quorthon I love your post. You said everything I've been wanting to say in a much better way than I ever could have. Of course, this being a Nintendo site, you'll be met with strong opposition. But I just wanted to let you know I enjoyed your well thought out post
@Shiryu Glad I'm not the only one that feels like this. I love the Wii U & love the games I've played on it. It just seems to always be a drag on the Wii U waiting for the next game. Trouble is if you don't like the next game coming out on the Wii U your screwed because no 3rd party games come to the Wii U. So if you don't enjoy everything Nintendo puts onto the Wii U your pretty screwed. But even if you do enjoy everything Nintendo puts out on the Wii U you'll still have months waiting for the next game. Which as a fan of the Wii U can be rather annoying. I also feel we never know where we stand with the Wii U like the poor Virtual console & never 100% knowing what's coming out or when. Then with the NX rumors it's made me doubt the Wii U even more hopefully the direct will clear everything up & be happy days.
Well... it seems Splatoon is literally the only Wii U game for me this year unless something interesting pops up. I'm kind of disappointed with the Wii U and its lackluster genre line-up. This year just seems to be extremely lackluster. Splatoon and Batman: Arkham Knight are the only games that I'm most likely going to buy (they're also good quality which makes up for the lack of other games to play) and I'm not really sure if the 3DS will have anything to bring me this year, seeing as they don't seem to have a new Pokemon game coming out. I'd love a few JRPGs on it.
@rjejr
2016 is the Wii U's Swan Song Year. Wii U is following in the Revolution's footsteps, which is what the NX is following. All this is far too similar to each other. As for written off, the writing is and has been on the wall for a long time. Yeah none of this would be an issue if third party support simply existed.
Soft? Me? Never.
@ThomasBW84
You still talk about 2016/2017 to release date, but as pattern the regular launch come after 2 years (more or less) of the reveal right? With a 2016 reveal it's unbelievable that we'll see NX in the stores before 2018.
I'm betting on something announced tomorrow that we haven't seen. We'll also get some Amiibo news, some Starfox love, some more Zelda footage that will appease those anxious for the game, and I'm betting a lot of Xenoblade.
I see the LoZ title as a defining game for the system, and something of a swan song. It won't be the last Wii U game, but probably will be the last really big Ninty franchise to get a Wii U release.
@BlatantlyHeroic No love for Xenoblade Chronicles X?
@earthboundlink
I agree 100%. If Zelda has been delayed to 2016 then "needing more time" is only half the reason. The other half is that Nintendo's focus internally has shifted to the NX and they need Zelda to be their big Wii-U game for 2016 because they have no comparable games planned beyond that. That is my guess.
@TwilightAngel People always want more, even if there's great stuff right in front of them.
Nintendo will ride the Wii U out for most likely 2 more years (could be 1 but I doubt it) but the majority of people have written it at this point that can't be argued with. Honestly people overreacted to the Zelda delay and if not for Twilight Princess I don't think we'd be seeing so many assumptions of Zelda U possibly being on NX.
Ah yes, the same old doom & gloom comments from the usual suspects in the peanut gallery.
@Tazcat2011 Nintendo Life has a peanut stand I must have missed it on the way in
Per each generation, I usually pick one system and ride it out until the next generation arrives. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to have two or three systems but sometimes it's just one. I bought the Wii U about a year and a half ago and I have absolutely no regrets. How can you have regrets with Super Mario 3D World, Smash, Kart, Donkey Kong, Pikmin, Toad, Kirby, and with games like Xenoblade, Yoshi, Star Fox, & possibly Zelda on the way? It would be awesome to get some third party support but it's not going to happen now, but I'm content with what is out and what is coming out. I couldn't honestly justify buying a PS4 or XBONE at the moment. If you have them, awesome; but for me, I couldn't justify buying another more expensive system to play 3-6 games.
@Quorthon It's happened before, but I just don't see it happening this time. They've already been developing it for so long and the next system is (from my perspective) still so far out. Since they announced that they were working on Twilight Princess in 2003, inevitably releasing so close to the Wii made the cross-gen jump a given.
Bought my wii U at Xmas and looks like it wasn't a very good purchase as buy the looks of it the only big game for Wii u is xenoblade chronicles x. Let's hope this nintendo direct has some good news but I suspect the wii u will slowly be killed off over the next 12 months.
@turnmebackwards Haha. Can't miss it, it has the big allergy warning sign. 😀
@Tazcat2011 Thanks just found it salted for me please sir!
It doesn't matter what hardcore Nintendo fans think about it being too early to write off the Wii U - they're the ones who would buy the console regardless.
The fact is that the Wii U is really lacking in games, ironically even core Nintendo franchises. People aren't going to wait more than a year for promises of Star Fox, Zelda and Yoshi's Island.
@Quorthon @Punished_Boss_84
Here's my problem w/ the NX speculation, we don't know it's a new home console, and if it isn't a new home console, whatever it is they won't be moving Zelda U to it.
I'm half expecting NX to be a tablet that plays DS games, DeNA app games, and works as an additional Gamepad for the Wii U (though not at the same time, more like for another room to browse Miiverse and the eShop). But it wont be exactly a tablet, but it won't be a replacement for either 3DS or Wii U either.
Then a year after that we can get Unity which replaces both 3DS and Wii U w/ 1 system. NX is just a stopgap filler to try and unify all the current accounts and hardware. It will also work as a remote control for the QOL hardware.
So basically a watch
@rjejr "And amiibo have just begun, there are probbaly a couple of big games in the work sfo rthem over thenext couple of years as well."
I agree completely.
I've not given up on the Wii U. I think it still has some years ahead of it. If the NX IS an hybrid console, then that might mean the Wii U's life might be cut short, which is why I want Nintendo to (PULLLLLLLEAZE!!!) support the Wii U well after the release of the NX.
@LordGeovanni twilight princess was actually finished by 05 they delayed it a year for wii
Some people will just look for negatives in any story here, whether it's good news or not. Why don't people just wait for more info on NX before jumping to conclusions
@rjejr - So basically proof that dipping into mobile gaming is compromising their 'core' products?
@turnmebackwards The NX didn't made me fell any different about the Wii U. Of course Nintendo is working on new hardware, they always are, so it's nothing new to me and I did not understand or feel that I need to be worried about anything new hardware from Nintendo. I do expect a 5 year life cycle for the Wii U and we are not even halfway into it. And ou're absolutly right, I feel like an"hostage" of sorts always waiting for "the next game". So far, after completing "Bayonetta 2" in December and "Captai Toad" in January, I have been hitting eBay for the very few GameCube games I have missed over a decade ago and that's the only games I have been playing. That does not feel right at all considering it's 2015. I hope tomorrows Nintendo Direct gives me new faith because I really, REALLY don't want a PS3,PS4 or Xbox One on my living room.
The lack of games for Wii U is embarrassing. They're a games company with hardly any new games.
I hope they do make the NX a single platform as they are incapable already of supporting 2 consoles at once. With their resources being further stretched with QoL and smartphones etc I can only see their output thinning even further.
Have they even released a new Wii U game this year, I can't remember?!
@Shiryu Buying a PS4 to go with my Wii U was the best decision I have made. I'm sure you'd not be disappointed if you did the same...
@datamonkey Nintendo make more games for a wii u and 3ds than Microsoft or Sony do for there's tho they just need some bloody third party games lol
@Geonjaha - Most people woudln't say Apple TV has compromised iPad or iPhone development, just that the TV was little more than a hobby for Apple.
Nintendo put out the Wii Mini - a Wii w/o wifi yet included online multiplayer Mario Kart Wii in the box - and they put out a 2DS, a 3DS game player that removed the 3D view. Those 2 pieces of hardware compromised their core development more than the NX or app games will.
@datamonkey I will wait for "Batman" and "Star Wars" before deciding. I am not much of fan of having to pay monthly fees to play online games and credit card theft...
@SavoirFaire believe it or not, not all of these "negative comments" are anti Nintendo xb&ps fans hoping for the company to buy the farm. Some of us fans are concerned with the direction this company is going in, and I'd rather see Nintendo succeed then fail yet again.
@rjejr
But why would Iwata say NX was mentioned early to avoid doubts over Nintendo's future in the hardware business?
@rjejr Agree with you on everything you said here, pretty much. Saved me some comments!
We don't know what the NX is. I don't think it will be what you are guessing, myself, and I still tend towards a 3DS replacement first and then a console later. They will have common platforms and many common games as they will be easier to share resources and functionality between them. Nobody, anywhere suggested that it would be a console, just that it would be hardware that is not just for mobile gaming but new dedicated game hardware with new ways to play.
On the Wii Mini, I don't know how much a $99 machine is stealing sales from the $350 one myself, but I see where you are coming from. This type of thing has gone on for most generations of consoles. The 2DS is simply an alternative that meets a market (mostly kids). Not seeing that as a problem either.
@Punished_Boss_84 - Sega.
The issue they're going to have is that unless they announce a new, Mario Galaxy-like Mario game, there is basically nothing that can replace the impact Zelda U would have had on the release schedule for WiiU. Sure, stuff like Star Fox, Xenoblade and Mario Maker will be great. But they're also niche titles that aren't gonna move many units of hardware during the holiday period. Even if Nintendo were to announce a new Metroid or F-Zero or Paper Mario, those games are in the same boat as B-tier franchises that, while certainly will sell as software, aren't going to get many people interested in buying a WiiU that don't already own one. Zelda, Mario, Smash, Pokemon and Mario Kart. Those are the heavy hitters for Nintendo, and without any of them on schedule for WiiU in 2015 now, I can't possibly see how WiiU will sell this holiday.
Sure, there could be a major surprise waiting at E3, but I feel like its probably Metroid or Animal Crossing. Those games won't sell WiiUs like Zelda would.
@Quorthon "Nintendo never even used the GamePad for any of the amazing innovations they promised of the device"
I disagree on this point. Nintendo Land was amazing to me and my family. I think that potential hasn't been regained and things went poorly in all sorts of ways, but the GamePad has already been awesome. There have been highlights like Zombie U, Rayman Legends, and games that let a second player have their own screen (Sonic Racing and Hyrule Warriors). None of those experiences have been done as well as on the Wii U, IMO.
Did it fail to get the wider gaming public to buy the Wii U? Sure did.
I don't think Zelda would have affected sales much. That crowd already has the console.
We'll still see new Wii U games announced, but I doubt they've started work on any new games for it in the last 6 months and there probably won't be any more now. There's still Retro's game to be revealed and maybe another EAD game.
They can't really replace Zelda either. If they have something planned for that slot, it was already set for realese anyway, and won't be a reaction to the delay. These games take years, unless they're like Toad where they just rip code from an existing game.
I got my Wii U for $115 so I'm good I only play SSB4 and where is my Pokemon Wii U epicness?!!! Sadly I was looking forward to Nintendo's Batman vs Batman Arkham Knight for Game of the year like 3 years ago but Skyrim won that one but still.
@aaronsullivan Wii Mini and 2DS may not be problems, but I was using them more as an example of what Nintendo can come up w/ hardware wise that can still surprise us. I don't recall anyone saying on here - "I saw that coming" when either of those 2 were unveiled. So saying we know what NX is? Well we don't.
And no, I don't really think it's a tablet either, but I don't know what it will be, no real point in guessing.
Zelda will be on Wii U though. I'm 99.9% on that one.
@rjejr
Clever Girl! Their situation isn't that dire though.
@aaronsullivan
The point is that Nintendo promised new ways to play, the way they promised major change with the Wii. Nintendo Land had some interesting ideas (I would argue that most of them didn't work well, or were inferior to traditional control standards), but it didn't lead to any kind of major change a la Wii Sports.
ZombiU and Rayman Legends--two games largely ignored by Nintendo fans--both utilized the GamePad to vastly more interesting and unique results, but in the end, nothing major changed. In that regard, the very audience defending the Wii U GamePad snubbed the two games that used it the most.
The GamePad is an embarrassing failure--and no doubt, Nintendo feels the exact same way with it now, which is why they ended up struggling to come up with "new" ideas for two tech demos in the last E3. Now the concern we should all have is how badly or illogically the GamePad may be shoe-horned into various upcoming games just to attempt to justify it.
They will publicly talk it up and attempt to build interest around it, but it's year 3. It's too damn late for that. And the rest of the industry looks at it like an expensive, bulky controller that added nothing to gaming.
@rjejr
If NX is truly the stopgap you've envisioned, it'll be a colossal failure. A 32X-level debacle. Would you want to buy that, only to have yet more hardware released a year or so later? I sincerely doubt you would, and by Cthulhu's ghost, I hope Nintendo isn't this daft (no offense to you, I find the very concept repulsive as a consumer).
I don't see Nintendo attempting to prolong the Wii U. Let's say you created a car that is woefully unreliable and fraught with problems--something better known for sitting on the side of the road than driving upon it. Would you want to prolong this expensive endeavor, keep adding new extra features (that customers have to pay for), or would you rather scrap it and get on with the next model? You can offer all the free gas cards and extra seats you want, but the car is still prone to breaking down.
As noted: Nintendo had once referred to any platform selling worse than GameCube as a failure. Nintendo was quick to bury and run from the GameCube, aside from appealing to Smash fans as that was apparently the one game in the world that benefited from the GC controller design, but instantly dropping it the second the Wii was out.
Nintendo wants to do the same with the Wii U. They want to wash their hands of this system as soon as they can. They're stuck in a balancing act of trying to make the console seem valuable to us early/only adopters, but they know full well they are no longer going to garner impressive sales for it.
The Wii label is tarnished. The GamePad is an embarrassment. They are standing on the two worst-selling platforms they ever made. Why, why the hell would they want to continue with this?
I simply do not understand why anyone thinks a major corporation would want to continue applying band-aids to the massive hemorrhaging wound they have in the Wii U. Continuing with a failing product is quite simply not good business.
Continuing with the Wii U is like deliberately choosing to marginalize your company's profits. Many of you (here, on this site, etc) would no doubt quickly ask "why does Microsoft even bother with Japan?" Or have said the same about the Vita (which may well be turning a new leaf this year), but you refuse to say the same for the Wii U. (To be fair, here, the XBO is not Microsoft's most important product, and neither is the Vita for Sony. The losses they are incurring are not nearly as damaging as the public failure of the Wii U, which is the signature backbone of Nintendo's business model.)
From the business perspective, the Wii U is a rat tail in a Big Mac. The longer Nintendo sticks with this losing horse, the worse things will be for them. Again, I bought this on day one, I have loved the console, but I am facing reality here. The reality is that Nintendo needs to drop it for the good of the company.
I still think Zeldas delay cannot come as a suprise to anyone. History shows a clear pattern of, well, lets call it "strategic optimism", regarding release dates for Zelda titles. They know Zelda draws people towards their hardware so they simply dont hang the carrot out the donkeys sight.
And there was the footage they have shown, which suggested that the game must be miles away from being ready.
But I have to confess I lost quite a bit of trust in Nintendo and the futureproofness of their buisnessmodel as it is now. Maybe they should go publisher only, a first step has been done with them going mobile.
And while they always press the point of being innovative with hardware and more I think this is quite a marketing and corporate IP thang. Just look at how poorly they utilze the gamepad and how few games really made sense or even improved experience with motion controls.
@Quorthon You should buy a Wii U, it has some fantastic games
I think people simply jumped to conclusions and tried to connect the dots when in fact there weren't any. The Wii U has a good amount of years of life still in it and I personally will be amazed if the NX is released before 2017.
Remember the long gameless gap between Wii and Wii U ? Maybe they will drop Wii towards the end of 2016 and still release NX in 2017
My concern isn't that the Wii U is the Dreamcast. My concern is that Wii U is the Saturn and the NX is the Dreamcast.
To my mind Nintendo have to keep supporting the WiiU, they have to provide their customers with a reason to believe any future project is worth investing in.
I bought a WiiU soon after it released but maybe won't be so quick to get on board with NX.
So, when's the next racing game coming out on WiiU? Errr... Regardless what they are up to with Zelda they aren't doing a good enough job of supporting the console with a constant flow of games.
Maybe they will change that tomorrow?
My only comment is that I refuse to comment on a "WiiU is dead" thread.
@Vineleaf
That's been my sentiment for ages. I think the Wii U is the Saturn. I hope Nintendo can prevent the NX from becoming another Dreamcast, and if they do, I hope they have enough cash left over to go 3rd party with some grace.
You wanna see an abandoned platform? Take a gander at the Vita. THAT is an abandoned platform. Now look at Wii U, with multiple major titles on the way that people actually care about. Big difference. Not to mention, Nintendo is notorious for keeping things close to their chest. I can't count how many times they both announced AND released a game within months of each other. Which means there's always more games on the way than is readily apparent.
When it's Wii U's time, we'll know it. Besides, the only people who really care about whether a console is "written off" are the guys who talk about sales and success more than they actually play and enjoy games. If it's Wii U' time then so be it. If Nintendo stops making games and sells toys for the next hundred years, oh well, there's nothing anybody can do to change what's going to happen. All we can do is enjoy the here and now. And here and now, we've still got excellent games coming and that's what matters.
To anyone who thinks Nintendo will stop making consoles, I say come back when it actually happens. Until then, there's really nothing to say on the matter.
@Ootfan98 he's too busy writing novel in forums to play video games.
It's a sad world when people think something's greatness depends on how much it sells. These are the same people with the extensive Backstreet Boy cd collection.
If you have the Wii U to only play Zelda games then you're just as narrow-minded as the rest of the Pony-Xbot zealots. There's plenty to play on Wii U already and there's still plenty to come - from first-party to third-party to indie developments. Just take a look around the eShop on Wii U. It's flooded. Even the Koei Tecmo stuff is worth a look. The Virtual Console service, while not as expansive as Japan's, has breathed new life into old games, and I for one am glad to be able to play Duck Hunt again for the first time after 20 years.
@Quorthon note to self: Stay away from whatever McDonald's you go to.
@JaxonH Well stated. Enjoy the ride and let's see what actually transpires.
@Shiryu : Oh, I think you may give in to Microsoft and/or Sony soon. Did you see the Halo ad blitz Microsoft ran this weekend during primetime? I don't see Nintendo doing that. And today, Sony announces a wicked custom Batman PS4 bundle for the summer. I don't see Nintendo branding their home console with anything as big as the Bat. The point is, its the same Nintendo yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
@Ootfan98
"You should buy a Wii U, it has some fantastic games."
@Quorthon said:
"Again, I bought this on day one, I have loved the console, but I am facing reality here. "
@Cyberbotv2 I'm all about the games, not hardware bundles and special consoles. I don't watch TV so any advertisement just flies by me.
All speculation, sales and arguments aside, the Wii U is what it is. I got it at launch and enjoyed it immensely and will more than likely enjoy what's left to be released whether it's 6 months or two years down the line. Do I wish it did better? Absolutely. Do I wish it got more third party support? For sure. But hey, I can't change history. All I can do is press on. I do however don't think this is the end of Nintendo by a long shot and hopefully whatever else they have in store they will be successful, granted they correct their obvious shortcomings I don't need to touch on as it's already been well documented.
NX for Holiday 2017 is my guess. And that'd give me another quality two and a half years with my Wii U.
The delay of the new Zelda game is like how they delayed Twilight Princess...and that got split between the Game Cube & original Wii. I suspect the new Zelda game will follow suit between Wii U & "NX."
@JaxonH I don't regard the Vita as abandoned platform it has a steady flow of games & more games released on it then the Wii U. But comparing handhelds to consoles is not always a good idea. Even the 3DS does not have a bucket load of games. Also the Vita is the perfect handheld for people who like Japanese games / RPGs. The Wii U is a home console that costs more then the Vita or 3DS so having games released for it is a must as it's a bigger investment. Not saying you should not release games for handheld consoles but home consoles are more important to me & many others.
@turnmebackwards
I respectfully disagree. Just because a few niche Japanese developers are still releasing games for Vita, doesn't mean the platform hasn't been abandoned. Sony themselves even said they're scaling back support, and we can see from the ZERO 1st party games in the pipeline what that really means.
As for "getting more games", iPhone gets more games than Wii U, PS4 or X1... combined, but that's not really saying much. Vitas only games are niche Japanese titles. And tbh, there's only 7 Vita games listed for pre order on Best Buys website. Wii U may not have much more listed but it does have more. And most importantly, they're first party games meaning the system is being fully supported. There's not one single first party Vita game up for pre order.
Now, I'm not trying to slander the Vita, believe it or not I own one and have since launch day. And it had a nice little run, while it lasted. The difference is, Sony gave up on Vita after two years of bad sales, while Nintendo doubled down and cranked up their output after two years of bad sales. A perfect compare/contrast of a platform abandoned after two years of poor sales, and a platform being fully supported after two years of poor sales.
EDIT: And the reason I feel this is important to acknowledge, is if Sony were to release another handheld, could I honestly buy one in confidence that they're not going to do a repeat of the Vita and just drop support when the going gets tough? I don't think I could. But with Nintendo, I know that even if worst comes to worst and every third-party developer shuns them like the plague, I know by looking at the Wii U that absolutely, positively no matter what, they will support heir hardware to the end, ensuring all who buy from them will receive high quality games for a full generation.
@Quorthon
"I simply do not understand why anyone thinks a major corporation would want to continue applying band-aids to the massive hemorrhaging wound they have in the Wii U. Continuing with a failing product is quite simply not good business.
Continuing with the Wii U is like deliberately choosing to marginalize your company's profits. Many of you (here, on this site, etc) would no doubt quickly ask "why does Microsoft even bother with Japan?" Or have said the same about the Vita (which may well be turning a new leaf this year), but you refuse to say the same for the Wii U. (To be fair, here, the XBO is not Microsoft's most important product, and neither is the Vita for Sony. The losses they are incurring are not nearly as damaging as the public failure of the Wii U, which is the signature backbone of Nintendo's business model.)
From the business perspective, the Wii U is a rat tail in a Big Mac. The longer Nintendo sticks with this losing horse, the worse things will be for them. Again, I bought this on day one, I have loved the console, but I am facing reality here. The reality is that Nintendo needs to drop it for the good of the company."
That reasoning would be true if the Wii U was a through-and-through stinker both in itself and in sales (which isn't the case). While the Wii U is faltering in hardware sales, the software attach rate is what it justifies the continued support Nintendo gives to it (alongside the cushioning 3DS sales give). That's why they can't kill the Wii U right now: that would kill whatever console consumer base they have by doing so, it's preferable to lose some money riding it out than losing existing customers by straight up axing it since the latter is a bigger loss.
@JaxonH I can see what your saying but still comparing handheld Vs. home console is not right. First you pay a lot more for a home console so you expect a lot more first party top games & 3rd party support. First party top games on the Wii U yeah it has them last one being Smash then Mario Kart. But it's still not enough for die-hard Wii U fans like myself who have had the console since launch.
@MoonKnight7 thanks for that. Because he wrote it, it must be true
@turnmebackwards I paid £125 for my N3DS last month. You can get a Wii U for pretty much the same amount. The cost differential is not that great.
@turnmebackwards
Idk, I've had the console since launch and it's been plenty for me. In fact, I barely touch my PS4, Vita or X1 anymore (even good releases like Final Fantasy Episode Duscae, Ori and the Blind Forest and DMC can't seem to draw me away from Nintendo right now). It gets less games, but it's still enough.
I spent countless hours playing NintendoLand, ZombiU and New Super Mario Bros U at launch. Heck, I played those games for at least two months straight. Then spent a month with FE Awakening (cause seriously, that game rocks), and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate was out. I sunk 600 hours into that game, all the way til Pikmin 3. Best game Id ever played in my life. Then I got bombarded with more games than I could keep up with. Raced through Pikmin, W101 and Splinter Cell Blacklist (Zelda Windwaker and New Super Luigi U I never had time for, they're still on backlog status). Then Super Mario 3D World dropped and WOW. Epic.
By the time I finished 3D World, getting all the stars and stamps, my most hyped game of all time released- Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze. SUCH a great game! Beat every stage, got every KONG letter, competed in time trials for a few months and even set the 2nd fastest time in the world for the final temple without taking damage (12th worldwide if you include damage runs). That game will forever be in my top 3 favorite games of all time, then Mario Kart 8 dropped, and played that for a month straight. Then Pushmo World released, played that until Hyrule Warriors and Smash 3DS,, which I had to put on backlog because of Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2. Loved those games too btw. By that time, Smash Wii U was out along with Captain Toad and new MK8 tracks. Had fun over the holidays (also squeezed in Dragon Age, an excellent game) and just when I'd had my fill and thought I could break into my backlog, Rainbow Curse and Tipping Stars released.
But the truth is, I don't really have time for Wii U right now either. The almighty Monster Hunter 4 is out. And like Zelda Windwaker and Hyrule Warriors, Majora's Mask landed in the backlog pile
Past patterns in the console industry do not dictate future patterns. This website is littered with reference to previous generations of Nintendo and Sega consoles, as if what happened 20 years ago absolutely must continue to play out in the same way now and in the future. The industry is a dynamic thing, please allow your opinions to be too, it makes things more interesting.
@gcunit I'm talking launch prices a handheld will be cheaper then a home console. And because the Wii U tanked hard in price it does not surprise me that the successful 3DS holds value better.
All I can say is that I'm glad I have one of the other 2 consoles to keep me busy.
@gcunit the Wii U is still around 300 over here while a new 3DS is 165. And, if you want multiplayer on Wii U, 300 wont cover it.
@gcunit
Oh my god, you nailed it. I get so sick of people (especially haters and fanboys) making these proclamations based on some sort of unchangeable time loop where what happened in 1997 with the N64 is bound by fate to happen again!
Every console and it's life-cycle is unique.
@AyeHaley
I can play Mario Kart online without any additional costs or purchases...same with Bayonetta and several other titles.
If you want to play -local- multiplayer it's going to cost the same on all consoles - the cost of additional controllers. If you want to play online multiplayer on PS4/XB1, you'll have an additional monthly fee to access the online components of most games.
I'm getting tired hearing the same poopitypooppoop about the gamepad. I admit it's Nintendo's fault they gimped the Wii U hardware to save cost and they didn't properly market it. But it's never the gamepad's fault the Wii U isn't selling like PS4/XOne. The gamepad is awesome. Majority of Wii U owners like it. Any Wii U owners saying the gamepad is crap are in the minority. Here is a poll 20 months ago about the gamepad:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/07/poll_how_important_is_dual_second_screen_gaming
Off TV play is nice, second screen map or inventory management is awesome, browsing the internet/games/eshop is convenient, touch controls offers new ways to play, gyro-aiming is way better than the right stick aiming.
Some of you are nitpicking on Nintendo not fully utilising the gamepad use on games. Tropical freeze, really? Just one or maybe 2 games? Maybe think for a second that it's not really needed on that particular game? Just like some 3DS games not using the 3D? Or maybe Nintendo is trying to show 3rd parties they are not really forced to use the gamepad? Like they are not forced to use 3D on the 3DS by releasing a 2DS?
great... It always feels like whenever I buy the newest system, they plan making a newer system!
y u do dis to me, Nintendo?!
@Action51 It is not the same because you need pro controllers and wiimotes in the Wii U case depending on the game. (I am a believer in the same controls for everybody in the interest of fairness).
I just hope we see a new Metroid and Fzero on the Wii U before they move on.
@outburst The gamepad is a "damned if they don't, damned if they do" device for the likes of some of Nintendo's "critics"...
If any game doesn't utilize the gamepad in an extensive or unique and integral way, then the gamepad is a "waste" and a "missed opportunity"...but if any game uses the gamepad beyond optional control input or basic off-screen play and inventory it's "gimmicky" and "I just want normal controls"...
You can't win when the goal is to spin a negative even if it contradicts previous criticisms, and judge every game as though it's the only game on the console.
@unrandomsam - What are some of the games that require only pro controller input for additional players?
Are there any?
Otherwise, it's more like with Guitar Hero and Rock band from last gen...a game here or there simply requires it's own control input for whatever reason.
Definitely too early. I think the delay is just a delay, but time will tell. Yes, the lack of third party support has been disappointing, but my purchase of the Wii U hasn't been. I'm actually playing it more than my PS 4, though I do have young kids so that does play into it.
@Punished_Boss_84 - Sorry, didn't mean to be so flippant, but when my kids get home from school they kick me off the PC and I can't get back on until after I cook and feed them dinner.
Anywho - I think they just had to announce "something" hardware related during that DeNA flip-flop reversal to try and soothe over the fanbase. NX could be the next home console, or Fusion, or a watch, or tablet, or VR headset. But it won't be the home of the next Zelda game.
I still don't think it's the next home console, so they needed to be vague. And vague is what Nintendo does best.
Oh, and never listen to a word Iwata says. Trust me on this.
I hate to say it but don't come to this direct with expectations. There is so much stuff out there that needs an update and new release dates to be given out. This Nintendo direct will most likely not feature anything new except maybe something related to the VC... which is an old service or something for the New 3DS. Anything to the Wii U we won't see anything new announced so don't get your hopes up.
@Aslanmagic the same , I play much more wii u than my ps4 . I cant wait to play xenoblade for wii u! honestly i'm excited for ND tomorrow. i guess we are going to the surprised . cuz the zelda stuff just being announced before nd could mean something after all ! can't wait for tomorrow.
@NebulaGamer
That's kinda exactly what it means...The rest of your post is just pure, astroturf speculation. I love how we're supposed to assume the worst until we hear the facts, but you're awful quick to call people with more grounded expectations based on better information as not seeing "reality".
If you turn out to be right, then I'll deal with that reality when there are actual facts to back it up.
The wild speculation in this thread is hilarious.
@NebulaGamer - Oh! And if you want to speculate based on past precedents:
A) I don't believe Pikmin 3 was ever announced as an upcoming Wii game...they simply took more time to upgrade it to a (rather stunning) HD affair and then released it on Wii U.
B) More closely resembling our current situation, I'd compare the Twilight Princess scenario where a Zelda game was released at the tail end of a poorly selling console (sound familiar) to get a re-release on the Wii soon after that.
This (scenario B) is far more likely, and then you can accuse Nintendo of "milking" their fans and "double dipping". At the end of the day, we still don't even know what the heck the NX is going to be and won't know for some time I imagine.
It's sad, but it's how things go. Today's kids don't want to play the games their parents played. Just like their kids won't want to play the games they played. Some things don't last forever. People will one day tire of xbox's first person shooters and playstation's last generation ports like they did with Mario.
@Quorthon -
"it'll be a colossal failure. A 32X-level debacle."
Like Nintedo's Virtual Boy? Iwata's protests to the contrary, I don't think they learn from their mistakes. And they gave us the Gamepad, which you just tore apart in your replay to Arron, so can you really guarantee they wouldn't do something stupid yet again? Like a tablet in 2016?
Car analogy -
Doesn't hold. New car models come out every year (Javits Center this week). New consoles come out every 5 years. If Nitnedo drops supports after 3 years there are no faithful left to buy the next console, they HAVE to support it for 5 years if they want to sell the next to anybody. Sucks to be them all alone supporting their console, but if they drop it now there's no point making another home console.
"Wii label is tarnished"
Well yeah, next console needs an entirely different name. No point speculating on that. Though the new Xbox should be fun huh? Xbox Two?
"the Vita (which may well be turning a new leaf this year), but you refuse to say the same for the Wii U."
Wait, who refuses to say what? Maybe Wii U will turn over a new leaf if Nintndo can finally make a game that makes use of the Gamepad? Or if they drop the price to $199? Or come out w/ a $20 Greatest hits line-up of NSMBU, Pikmin 3, W101. Wii U still hasn't had an Animal Crossing game. It isn't dead yet, and therefore could be resuscitated still. (I think it would probably take new management, but it could theoretically happen.)
"The reality is that Nintendo needs to drop it for the good of the company."
I guess we're just at odds on this, I think for the long term good of the company they need to support it.
If Nintneod drops Wii U now, after announcing the DeNA deal, they might as well never make hardware ever again. Sure supporting Wii U for 2 more years may cost them some money, but in the long term it will show their fans they can be trusted to support their own hardware.
Now, if NX is a handheld and Ntineod is dropping home hardware, well then now is a good a time as any I guess. But I still think there's life in the old Wii U yet.
And the ND tomorrow night probably doesn't matter, but if they announce a $50 price cut it wouldn't hurt. And maybe a Splatoon bundle console like that Batman PS4, just more Pollock style
I love the Wii U.... Loved it since the day i bought it nearly two years ago. But I think obviously the last game that will move consoles is Zelda. I know at least two people who will buy a Wii U when it comes out. Sadly, I think the Wii U is going to have problems hitting 15m in sales. This year looks to be like 2013. This year just doesn't have the releases that 2014 does.
@Quorthon
I'm lobbing this at you, mostly because of your constant pessimism I've seen on this site, but it really is directed at the MANY saying this.
Nintendo has never, I repeat, never had a home console without its OWN Zelda. I don't know how so many self proclaimed experts and arm chair analysts could be missing this. I would be amazed if this Zelda ended on up on the NX and WiiU, they have not done that once (released no dedicated Zelda for that specific platform), yet because ONCE, they released a Zelda on 2 systems it must be the case this time as well. Smh.
Last parentheses are the edit portion.
@Ootfan98
"thanks for that..."
You're welcome.
"...Because he wrote it, it must be true."
That, and the fact that I'm friends with him on the Wii U. So yes, it's true.
@chibirobot I'm with you on that. I always look forward to Direct time. Looking forward to X for sure!
@MasterGraveheart really really hope they announce a metroid, I'm ok with lack of games gives me a chance to actually complete ones I got I'm going through old wii games at mo that I either missed or didn't complete, got a bargain at second hand shop resident evil 4,goldeneye and driver parallel lines for a tenner
@NebulaGamer
I apologize that last part was poorly worded.I was reiterating that they have never not a released a Zelda belonging to just THAT home console, so no contradictions . And to your second point, IT NEVER did happen once before, that was my whole post. They have never not had a dedicated Zelda for a home console. The GC had WW before it shared TP. I may have worded the last part badly but please up your reading comprehension.
@AJ_Lethal
Dude you make good sense and made some strong points. It's refreshing to meet Nintendo fans that live in the real world.
This is business, not a cartoon game. The Wii U is never going to bring in the profits that Nintendo and the share holders crave. Far from. So stick or twist?
As you correctly pointed each decision has it's pros and cons.
One thing is certain, however. Nintendo needs to appeal to far more than the 12m - 15m people that will probably end up getting the Wii U. Hell, many of them probably don't plan to come back after their experiences with the Wii U.
Catering for a stiff necked flock of fanboys and Joe Public at the same time is going to be a tough job for Nintendo in 2016.
The appeal of Mario isn't what it was eight or so years ago.
Personally I would kick the fanboys and try to appeal to the masses. A handful of fanboys ain't going to bring home the bacon.
@Trickbaby14 Sales kinda matter.
@Hotfusion
"Personally I would kick the fanboys and try to appeal to the masses. A handful of fanboys ain't going to bring home the bacon."
And why not keep both? It's not like they are mutually exclusive.
I'm a bit on both sides here. While I do believe that the new Zelda simply wasn't ready for the holiday season, it is entirely possible that Nintendo will put it on the Wii U and the NX, just like @Quorthon has suggested (maybe others have too, but I'm certainly not going to read everyone's comments). I kinda feel like it's a bit ignorant to say that it WON'T happen. Nintendo may not have intended for the delay, but the timing could present itself and align too nicely.
The sales are terrible, but at least they aren't hemmoraging cash anymore. That said, Iwata simply cannot face shareholders and just keep going with business as usual. His job depends on it. Depending on the timeline, Zelda may have to become a swan song and a launch title. Just look at what happened with smart devices, after Nintendo repeatedly said no. Shareholders mean absolutely everything, and they make all the rules.
@Quorthon
As always you have some valid points, however, I do think it's reasonable to wait and see what Nintendo has in store for E3, before we make such assessments that Nintendo will abandon the hardware very soon. I do not believe that the loss of Zelda this year means Nintendo is jumping ship just yet. It could just simply be a delay, OR like what I said above, you could be right. I think it's reasonable for Nintendo to find a middle ground with this mess. I'm sure Nintendo has a few surprises for E3.
@MoonKnight7
While you are correct in that it's possible for a dual platform release. It is the exact OPPOSITE of the word ignorant, as you stated, to say that it won't (or very very likely won't) release on just one system. Given the precedence that there has ALWAYS been a dedicated Zelda on a Nintendo home console and also given the FACT that the Wii U isn't killing it profit wise. It would make perfect sense that it would release sooner than the NX and likely be one of the last big 1st party titles for the Wii U.
Again it is possible, but far from ignorant (unaware of facts, data, history, gen info) to say that this will be a Wii U exclusive, barring some remake, remaster, Ultra HD edition.
I'll always believe in Nintendo. Despite the current lack of games at the moment for Wii U, it'll definitely pay off to be patient.
The Wii U has a long life ahead of it, and E3 will be full of amazing reveals!
Oh Nintendo. What happened?
They really need a shake up, wake up and take a new approach to their brand. Who are they appealing to? "everyone"? How's that been working out... Children? They're playing XBOX and PlayStation along with teens and adults.
They use to be hardcore in the 90's. Now they're the butt end of a joke.
The fact that they don't care about getting 3rd Party support is horrible. They can't make it on their own and they shouldn't be expected to either.
I love my Wii U. But you know what?! It's sad and pathetic that none of my friends care to buy one or are interested cuz the first thing they ask is, what games does it got?!
I name maybe 3. They say what else? They ask is Mortal Kombat X coming for it? Is blah blah coming out for it?
It's sad. I feel bad for them. I don't know what's worse.
@rjejr your counter-argument (#122) is spot on. I personally think a price drop could do the Wii U wonders, I mean afterall, they are already making profit off their software, so why not drop another $50 or so... Also, Nintendo rarely likes to do this, but they could stand to have a greatest hits line (though probably not necessary since the majority of their 1st and 2nd parties do well) combine that with some attractive new software, they could ride out their typical 5 year cycle, release the NX and theoretically be ready with it's successor in time for whatever form Sony and Microsoft's next box will be. Provided the NX isn't something totally out there that doesn't resemble dedicated hardware at all.
Speaking of Microsoft and naming conventions, it's going very interesting what they name their machine. It's almost like they went to the "Nintendo School of Hardware Naming" it would not surprise me at all if they name it the XBox One-two or Xbox On (Squared Symbol) or try to get back to normal naming conventions and just call it XBox Four. Ha.
FYI, I would be all over a style Splatoon Wii U! Or maybe one that was Nickelodeon style splatters in different (skus) colors!
The rumour going around is for WiiU Animal Crossing. Based on how popular the 3DS games was this would be huge for the WiiU.
@Purple
Once you get past your teens, these what will my friends think fears evaporate. I wouldn't worry about it 😉
@Sir_JBizzle - Lego City Undercover needs a GH line. $50 2 yr old Lego game isnt selling, even if any new Wii U owners new to look for it. And why buy NSMBU for $50 when you can get SM3DW? Sell NSMBU for $30 and the $15 for the Luigi levels makes up the difference. And theres about $20 wprth of DLC fot Pikmin 3.
And I think having 4 or 5 GH boxes on a shelf or in the eShop helps w/ exposure.
Typed on my Gamepad, sorry for the typos, kids lost the stylus.
Now that's the pinnacle of fanboyism... seriously, I'll come back by tomorrow to read the comments after this Direct so we can argue something. For now, Wii U is still doomed to failure without major games in 2015. "Cheer up" articles won't lead us anywhere.
@rjejr I'm not saying they don't need a GH more than Nintendo likely won't see a reason to do so anytime soon, paticularly with their evergreen titles. Plus with the Wii VC titles retailing at $19.99, $20 for one of their Wii U titles will be a hard sell for them, but I totally agree with your point.
The WiiU has 2.5 years left. If Nintendo doesn't announce any new games than the system is dead. Expect them to release the already mentioned stuff and wrap it up with that as they focus more on the NX.
Comment sections of NLife articles have been hilarious lately. shrugs
Please stop it with the Doom and Gloom articles. The Nintendo Direc5 can't come fast enough.
@MoonKnight7 if you are his friend, please can you give him a cuddle. I think this might help to get some positivity.
@Quorthon You say there really isn`t that many games releasing for the Wii U, well, I know a few that are releasing this year:
Devil`s Third
Ultratron
Mario Maker
Starwhal
Rive
Yoshi`s Wooly World
Psycroir
Affordable Space Adventures
Splatoon
Runbow
Lego Jurassic Park
Badlands GOTY
Earthlock
The Castle Game
Red Goddess
Life of Pixel
Project Giant Robot
The Swindle
Lego Marvel Avengers
Rodea - The Sky Soldier
Form 8
Another Castle
6180 The Moon
A.N.N.E.
HyperLight
F.A.S.T. Racing Neo
Swords and Soldiers 2
Giana Sisters 2
Freedom Planet
Steamworld Heist
Xenoblade Chronicles X
And there are quite a few more, and a few we still don`t know about.
so, before you open your mouth and let the crap drible down, do your homework, and get some fact correct.
@NebulaGamer WOW, you must work for Nintendo. You know the actual date that Project NX is releasing. Maybe you could let Iwata and Miyamto in on it ..... another armchair expert.
If you think the next big Zelda is actually going to see release on the Wii U you are delusional.
@NebulaGamer Didn't Miyamoto say they had to scrap a good portion of Pikmin 3 that was developed for Wii, meaning they had to redo those portions on Wii U? I think the game could have looked even better if it had been built from the ground up for Wii U and without the deadline it had.
Anyways, given the fact that "2016" was never said in the announcement of Zelda's delay, that could be telling of its fate. A spokesperson said that the new release window for Zelda "has yet to be determined".
Assuming the NX is a home console or a hybrid, then I do think they'll pull a Twilight Princess.
@AJ_Lethal Firstly, only 2 months ago, Sony basically said they had given up support for the Vita. The Wii U is NOT the backbone of Nintendoes business right now, that would be the 3DS family. Also, of the three, the Wii U is the only console that actually produces profit on each unit sold. Microsoft are not expected to start making a profit for at least another year, more even, what with 3 price cuts in its first year. The PS4 will not make Sony any money for at least 18 months.
Sony is relying heavily on their new PlayStation Now service, which is due to be launched world wide sometime soon. Both Bloomberg's and AKL have stated, if Sony fail to get people interested in that service, and persuade them to buy a new tv with built in console, not even the PS4 will save the company. What ever assets they have left (not many, sold of most already), they would have to sell.
@3MonthBeef You need your eyes testing, or try opening them. You can notice all the vibrant and colourful blacks, greys, and dusty colours of CoD, but cannot see the 1080p colours in something like Bayonetta 2? Yeah, right. Go and play The Order or Sunset Overdrive, both AAA games, both failed miserably.
@rockodoodle How can you say this year does not have the same quality games as last year? Splatoon, brand new IP, Devil`s Third, brand new IP, Mario Maker, F.A.S.T. Racing Neo, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Project Giant Robot, Project C.A.R.S., SteamWorld Heist, and many others, There are games that have yet to be announced, so to make that comment is as yet, unfounded, because we don`t know what E3 will tell us. E3 is dedicated to games coming in 2015. This year has a much bigger, and in a lot of ways, better line-up than last year.
To late my wii u is already on ebay. Only game I wanted was zelda u and that will probably be released on the NX along side the wii u.
I have been careful at selecting games, reading reviews first. Now I have 25 titles on the Wii U (full games, not eshop). Will probably also pick up Kirby, Splatoon and Wolly World. So at the end of the consol's life cycle I expect to have 30-35 really good games. That's enough for me.
@Boxmonkey good riddance, don't ever buy nintendo products again
I'm sure there's more content coming, but the lack of major third party support has only meant that I've purchased far more Nintendo games on Wii U than I did on Wii. I would like to see more Virtual Console games and more Wii downloads and that would be enough alongside some nice indie games.
The people who "know" Nintendo are abandoning this machine are forgetting the basics: whether or not it competes well with other machines isn't as important as whether or not the installed base is large enough to make it profitable to develop software for. Clearly the latter is true, because if this was a Virtual Boy-scale disaster Iwata wouldn't still be in that chair and Nintendo might well be done as a gaming hardware company.
Betting the farm on whatever the NX is might or might not turn out well. Market conditions will be no different than when the Wii U launched: mobile games are still massive, other console content continues to be moribund but selling to a dedicated crowd that probably won't care about Nintendo's unique offering and the economy is still stagnant (regardless of what politicians say). NX might truly be the end of Nintendo as a console maker or be some other game changer like see them exit some overseas markets in that space.
It will be interesting to see what happens, but regardless I'm keeping my Wii U!
Of course there's also a simpler explanation for delaying Zelda even if ready: maximise product sales. Since Nintendo is doing all the heavy-lifting, putting out two similar games in the same year might not seem to make as much sense to them. I did think having both Xenoblade - an open-world sci-fi adventure and the new Zelda game - an open-world fantasy adventure, release within months of each other was a bit odd. They are both event titles for an overlapping audience, so best give them time to breathe and sell as much as possible, no?
Delaying the game if they didn't felt it was ready was a wise choice even though the console is doing bad and it needs something big for the Holiday season. There are too many instances where promising games were released when they where far from completion and the results were horrible for everyone. So congratulations to Nintendo for making the right decision even under pressure.
Yes, the Wii U is a misfit of a console. The casual crowd that bought the Wii just stayed with the Wii. And tEh_harDc0er don't like it for its lack of 3rd party games. But continuing to support it is the thoughtful, cautious choice. Terminating development of the projects for the console and moving to another machine would:
1- Waste resources, experience and infrastructure already spent on the console. The Wii U is over two years old. Nintendo's teams are now familiar with the thing, and that speeds up development process; moreover, devkits of already released games could be used as a starting point for other games. Add to this the money and technology spent on storage for VC games and leaderboards, servers for online gaming, amiibo, etc. All that, to kill the platform only three years after launch? Talk about frivolous spending.
2- Anger a user base that, despite being small, would be left without games they would very probably buy (with third-party games not being an option, what else would they purchase?) AND would be forced to spend money on another piece of hardware should they want to play said games. Yeah, let's do that. Let's pull a Saturn.
3- Force development teams to re-start (or at least heavily modify) their work in an alien, experimental environment. Beginnings aren't easy. It would take time and money to learn how to master the use of new tools and hardware. Perhaps Nintendo would need to recruit new staff to teach or supervise the use of new technologies. A costly transition.
These are the reasons I can think of right now that tell me it's wiser to stick with the Wii U, flawed as it is, than move to a new console. Keep releasing the usual big-profile games (Zelda, a Retro-developed Metroid.), add some creative new IPs (Splatoon had a surprisingly popular debut at last year's E3.), and let the thing have a natural, peaceful death. In the future, those games could find new life being released to download on Nintendo's next console, just like Wii games are being brought to the Wii U download library.
NX will be released in 2016 or 2017. But we know next to nothing about the damn thing and everything said about it is conjecture. What we know is that the Wii U has to be around for a couple of years more at minimum. Third-Parties ignore it, but the main appeal of Nintendo consoles have always been the Nintendo games. "It's low-end tech. The GamePad forces desing choices that make it unattractive to developers. It's aimed at kids, and kids don't have the money or decision power to buy a large quantity of games.". Those are real shortcomings, but even with those, Nintendo keeps on developing quality games for the console. Zelda being delayed to not only reach a minimum standard, but actually be the best game it can be is PROOF of it, instead of meaning that the Big N plans to end the console's life cycle. I would be truly alarmed if they rushed an unfinished game instead of taking the time to make it a worthwile entry to the series.
The situation of the Wii U is frustrating right now. And seems like it will be in the following months, at worst during the rest of its lifetime. But killing it would cause more harm than good. Think in the long term. Look at the big picture.
I do hope they will continue to make games in 2015 and half way of 2016 and then hopefully we will see their next system and hope we can get more information. I'm sure if Nintendo will do that in 2016 or at end 2016 3rd party publishers will come back as well since their system matches the xbox one and the ps4. And maybe it's time for an other name than WII U.....
@rjejr
1up on #122
@Action51
People have different opinions about the Gamepad. It's nothing to do with being damned either way.
@rjejr "Ntineod"
Wow, now that's a typo! [122]
@akaDv8R
Sony were reported to be making a profit on PS4 hardware last May. I don't know about Microsoft.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-says-ps4-unlike-their-previous-consoles-is-already-contributing-profit/1100-6419822/
The way Sony has abandoned the Vita is awful though. It didn't even get the recent Spotify update that replaced Music Unlimited.
We bought a WiiU for the very same reason we'll buy a NX: to play Nintendo games.
Problem is that after 4 years WiiU is still missing what Gamecube had in 5 years: F-Zero, Zelda (2 games!), Metroid (2 games!), Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, Battalion Wars, Eternal Darkness, Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing, another Pikmin...
@Superryanworld sure they matter. It's a business. I don't think Nintendo is hurting for money right now. I just don't understand when it became necessary for them to break record sales with everything they do. I know the bar for them is set high, but everybody just needs to relax. Unless all the people complaining are Nintendo shareholders and have a stake in the company.
True, they will support Wii U this and whole 2016. year.
@andreoni79 4 years?
Wii U is on market less than 2 years and a half, around 4 years will be end of 2016.
@andreoni79 I don't understand why they have continued to pump out Mario games but have ignored Metroid, Zelda and F-Zero. These games are the most requested.
@rjejr
Right. Now whose the one going soft?
@Miyamotoo Ops. Due to Zelda I'm already thinking it's 2016 now!
For me as a consumer, I couldn't care less about sales numbers. It seems like it is personally important for some people to see the console selling well. Of course we'd all like to see Nintendo do well, but that's really a secondary concern for me.
As long as Nintendo keeps dishing out the quality games we all know and love, I am content. I can see why businessmen and journalists occupy themselves with the sales issue, but why obsess about it as a consumer? Instead of stressing out and bellyaching about in the comment section of NL, go play some video games, man.
I hope they can turn things around, I definitely thing the console is capable of much more. Where is the stuff like BBC Iplayer for instance?
@Action51 I meant to reply to this statement "You can get a Wii U for pretty much the same amount." Sadly not over here I still need to replace my dead Wii U and it would be nice if I could get one for +/- 125 pounds
Of course you will need more controllers/games on PS4/X1 if you want local multiplayer. The problem is you can't get any worthwhile local MP games on those systems. Sony and MS pretty much ignore that (vital) part of gaming.
@BigDaddysPizza Couldn't agree more. The WiiU was announced E3 2011, released November 2012.
I think the NX is the new portable and it will be designed in conjunction with the new home console but wont be replacing it. I could see it been a stand in for the WiiU pad in the next home console allowing the next home console just to come with a standard pad.
NX will probably the 3DS successor for next year whilst the Wii U will carry on until 2019 when they release Hardware which can compete the Next gen Xbox.
Hopefully NX will release with Mario Kart 9,Next Gen Pokemon,Pikmin 4,New Zelda(or remake of Skyward Sword) and Splatoon 2.
@Quorthon And without the third party support, they are getting no sports titles. The Wii U only has one madden (2013) and one soccer (2013). It has a few sports compilations (ESPN Connection and Wii Sports Club), but there's no sports titles...it's also lagging in racing titles, shooters, action, adventure, strategy, simulation, rpg and lest we go on. It's a shame, but they really need to take the time to work on getting their 3rd parties back on board, which is why they really need to start work on the NX, give it to 3rd parties, have them create some exclusive AMAZING games, keep those 3rd parties happy and going throughout a few years, apologize to EA (just so the sports titles come on), and make more than just a rash of platform adventure and party titles. There is no Mario sports titles even out on the Wii U, which is disappointing. Mario Golf hasn't been out on a console since Gamecube...it would have been a perfect fit for the Wii, but it skipped it, and Wii Sports Club seemed like a really chopped down version of the game...Wii Sports Resort had a lot of things in it. All of the Wii U games seem to be really short titles that feel like they were rushed. I loved Super Mario 3D World, but why was it not a huge adventure title like Super Mario Sunshine, or Super Mario Galaxy, and I read on this site that the next Mario Adventure may not even come to the Wii U (forgot where I read it at). It's a shame, because I love the system, but I wouldn't mind if they left it behind and got a new one out that is just as powerful as the PS4...that way, the life span of the NX would come to an end around the same time as the PS4 and XONE, and they can all release their next ones at the same time, which will give nintendo a chance to compete again. This is what nintendo needs to think about, in my opinion, and I really hope that they do...even if the next Zelda is released on both consoles.
@Quorthon And without the third party support, they are getting no sports titles. The Wii U only has one madden (2013) and one soccer (2013). It has a few sports compilations (ESPN Connection and Wii Sports Club), but there's no sports titles...it's also lagging in racing titles, shooters, action, adventure, strategy, simulation, rpg and lest we go on. It's a shame, but they really need to take the time to work on getting their 3rd parties back on board, which is why they really need to start work on the NX, give it to 3rd parties, have them create some exclusive AMAZING games, keep those 3rd parties happy and going throughout a few years, apologize to EA (just so the sports titles come on), and make more than just a rash of platform adventure and party titles. There is no Mario sports titles even out on the Wii U, which is disappointing. Mario Golf hasn't been out on a console since Gamecube...it would have been a perfect fit for the Wii, but it skipped it, and Wii Sports Club seemed like a really chopped down version of the game...Wii Sports Resort had a lot of things in it. All of the Wii U games seem to be really short titles that feel like they were rushed. I loved Super Mario 3D World, but why was it not a huge adventure title like Super Mario Sunshine, or Super Mario Galaxy, and I read on this site that the next Mario Adventure may not even come to the Wii U (forgot where I read it at). It's a shame, because I love the system, but I wouldn't mind if they left it behind and got a new one out that is just as powerful as the PS4...that way, the life span of the NX would come to an end around the same time as the PS4 and XONE, and they can all release their next ones at the same time, which will give nintendo a chance to compete again. This is what nintendo needs to think about, in my opinion, and I really hope that they do...even if the next Zelda is released on both consoles.
I really wish Iwata hadn't mentioned the NX and just said they were continuing as normal to develop future hardware.
I'm sure half the people up in arms or flailing about in panic didn't read the full presentation, as all the worries and concerns are addressed in it. I don't know how gaming news and media is done in Japan, but I'm guessing Iwata didn't realise the way it's done here. Chopping up the presentation into small bits and presenting them as multiple articles that then remove the context of statements rather than presenting it as a whole. So most people just read "Nintendo is announced NX to be revealed in 2016" and "Nintendo making mobile games" and freaked out. Because they didn't get the whole story. It took about 10mins to read the full presentation, if you're concerned go read it.
As for the WiiU, I think it has a couple years left. Hopefully we'll see a Metroid, Animal Crossing, Wario, maybe Fire Emblem and some surprises for 2016 (plus Zelda) and then after that I imagine it will slowly wind down as Nintendo systems do, with it's swan song being a new 3D Mario before the NX replaces it early 2018.
The funny thing about the Wii U for me is that despite the limited library, I have bought and own FAR more games for it that any other console I've owned (about 20-30, not including a lot of great Wii games I've picked up as well).
I've also probably had the most enjoyment and value out of the Wii U compared to any other console... despite all the bad press it gets. I played The Last of Us on the PS4 in my house and was pretty much done with it (don't get me wrong, it is a great console). There's a lot of great PS4 games in the house but I just don't have time to look at them purely because the Wii U is keeping me busy and totally entertained.
When Nintendo stop supporting the Wii U, it'll still be sitting in my room, next to the NX (whatever that may be), hooked up to the TV, with many fond memories and games that still get played.
@AyeHaley
You can get lots of local multiplayer games on XB1 and PS4 that have been ignored on Wii U. They're called sports games.
What we've seen so far of the next Zelda it seems that the GamePad functionalities will be fully integrated in the gameplay, with the aiming with gyro while shooting arrows and placing beacons on the map. I think it's fair to say they will utilise even more than these (I leave it to the developers to surprise us) in the final version, just to showcase the addition of the GamePad.
And that's why I believe this Zelda will not be released on both Wii U and NX, because that would mean including the GamePad with NX, while haters contribute the bulky GamePad as the biggest reason Wii U is failing. Also Iwata stated NX being "a dedicated game platform with a brand-new concept", so I'm interpreting that as not being a continuation of Wii U policies. Unfortunately this will also mean no backwards compatibility I'm afraid...
@Sean_Aaron
1up for you as well!
@Ogbert I hope you're right. That's certainly the kind of timeframe I envisage, and would be happy with.
@Quorthon I've noticed that the vast majority of your comments are terribly negative. What's up big guy?
@AyeHaley I agree. Pushing somebody off the sofa when they are about to win at MK beats online MP any day.
@electrolite77 sports? what's that?
Excellently written NL! It's amazing the conclusions many are jumping to with the Wii U...may it live long and prosper =)))
@JLPick
If you go back to the N64 days, Nintendo more clearly understood the importance of 3rd party and sports games, and Howard Lincoln went out of his way to secure deals with companies like EA to get better sports game support.
I'm not a fan of sports games myself, but I'd be an idiot to dismiss how important and popular they are. Howard Lincoln understood this. Reggie, apparently, does not.
@luke88
Positive or negative is a perception. I am based in reality.
To think Nintendo is "doing great" now or that the Wii U is "a great console" is not reality.
We can love the Wii U all we want, but at the end of the day, it's not a good console for Nintendo, not a good console for 3rd parties, and not selling.
I may well be one of the only people that actually cares about Nintendo "the company." I like the Wii U, personally, but have no love for it and want Nintendo to take the right measures to repair their damaged image and influence. The most self-professed Nintendo and Wii U fans here would sooner see Nintendo fail just to keep supporting a failing machine to appease their fanboyism.
I'm not so narcissistic that I want Nintendo to appeal to just me. I want them to succeed.
@akaDv8R
How many of those games are you going to buy? How many will be supported by Nintendo fans? The sad reality is that very, very few will be supported by the fans. Every multiplatform title will sell better elsewhere. Did you even see the article where the price was revealed for Affordable Space Adventures? Most people here seemed to whine about the price and note that they won't support the game unless it costs less, regardless of how much more they'd spend on lesser quality software from Nintendo.
And cobbling together a list of games coming out is nice and all, but would you want me to do a similar list for the PS4? Because it'll be four times longer--at least.
Check out this handy, regularly updated article: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/03/04/2015-video-game-release-schedule.aspx
Currently, Wii U stands at 65 games.
PS4? 265
Xbox One: 132
3DS: 41
The Vita has 125 games lined up for 2015--and Nintendo fans have loved calling that device a failure. Have you called the Vita a failure? Because it has more games than the Wii U for 2015.
By all means, continue to sit there and pretend there isn't a serious problem for Nintendo. Ignore the poor sub-Dreamcast/GameCube sales. Ignore the lengthy droughts with no new retail games. Ignore that every major 3rd party game is skipping the console. Ignore the lack of sports titles. And continue to live in a fantasy land.
Because that's a major missing point from your list--where are the Call of Dutys, the Maddens, the 2K Sports titles? Where are the Battlefields and Assassin's Creeds and Witchers? Continue to pretend these titles don't matter, but in reality, they do.
It's perfectly fine to enjoy the Wii U, but let's not be ignorant fanboys about it. It's the biggest mistake Nintendo's made since the Virtual Boy. You apparently want them to continue to linger with a failing product. I want to see them succeed, and it's not going to happen here, and not with these machines.
I hate to say it--as I have reasons to want the Wii U to succeed--but I'd rather see them drop this and get something new and competitive out there before it's too late. I'm concerned that 2017 will be too damn late.
@JaxonH
Hey, good for you on renewing your PSN+ subscription for that console you claim not to play but apparently own. Did you download Spotify yet? I'd never used it before. Figured I'd give it a shot.
By the way, I can't help but notice that you called the Vita an abandoned console.
Check it out:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/03/04/2015-video-game-release-schedule.aspx
Games slated for 2015:
Wii U: 65
Vita: 125
I guess that makes the Wii U super abandoned, and the 3DS mega-ultra abandoned with only 41 titles for 2015. Hey, this is your logic. Clearly, if the Vita is a failing, abandoned machine, the Wii U and 3DS are worse.
@Sir_JBizzle - "$20 for one of their Wii U titles"
I'm ok w/ $30 for Nintendo Selects.
Kirby and Toad launched at $40, so they are already under cutting the prices of their 2 year OLD games w/ the prices of their new games. I know why the newer games are cheaper, but to the average parent what are you going to buy, a $40 new game or a 2 year old $50 game?
And sorry if my tone sounded like I was arguing w/ you, I'm just always mad at Ntinedo.
@Quorthon
Never seen someone so bothered by what someone else on the internet likes to play.
And yes Vita is abandoned. Only games coming to it are niche perverted Japanese titles and indies. Sony dropped Vita like a bad habit. Wii U has the full brunt of 1st party support going strong.
@Quorthon How many of those PS4 games are people going to buy? If you saturate the market, most games won't even get a look in.
Yes, the Vita is a failure. It has FAILED to become the number 1 handheld. Even Sony announced giving up support for it.
As for Nintendo bringing out a new console earlier than 2017,they would be committing virtual suicide. People that may have purchased one only a year or so ago, would naturally disgusted. I don't doubt Nintendo have made some errors with the Wii U, I am one of the first to say when I think a company has done something wrong. However, they are the only company that could support a console like the Wii U. The other 2 would not be able to, as they gave both sold off, there internal games divisions.
Anyone who literally writes Nintendo off as a console manufacturer, is either stupid, or a fan boy. The VP of Sony stated, without Nintendo, games consoles would not have the features they have today, and that the industry as a whole, needs Nintendo. Both for their innovation, which the other two normally try and copy, but usually fail but also because of their massive list of It's IP's.
We will learn a bit more about their new console at E3. Nobody outside of Nintendo knows if it is a home console, portable or a possible hybrid. An to the people who are saying Zelda U will not launch on the Wii U, both Iwata and the head guy, his name escapes me, have said it will, and gave even shown off specific features using the Game Pad. Also, no Nintendo console has ever gone through its lifetime without its own dedicated Zelda game.
@Action51
You really don't seem to understand the gaming industry. Past patterns can indeed reflect future issues. Sega exiting the console market did indeed mirror Atari exiting the console market, and Nintendo's current status mirrors them with generally minor differences (namely, the 3DS).
And yes, just because a company still has games coming out, they may still be abandoning the console--and you'll notice this as the release schedule will gradually dry up quickly over the next two years. Think rationally for just a minute (if this concept is foreign to you, it may take several minutes), but Nintendo will not have the new hardware ready right away. They need to make some money back before the new hardware is ready, so they'll finish the games that have already been in development and push them out to fill time until the next machine is out. Games earlier in development may be moved to the new hardware--like Twilight Princess and Pikmin 3.
What, you expect them to just drop everything in a cold second? Is that what it'd take to prove it to you? Because that's not remotely how corporations are going to do business. Sega, for instance, canned the Dreamcast, but continued to release some games and offer support for it for something like a year after they officially stopped production and moved 3rd party. There is a transitional period.
Nintendo is not trying to fix the Wii U--they are going to support it in a noticeably decreasing capacity over the next year or so.
@akaDv8R
By the logic of your own post, the Wii U is a failure because it FAILED to be Number 1. And no, Sony did not give up support for the Vita. It has more games coming to it in 2015 than the Wii U does. They've been lackluster with it, but they're still supporting it.
Why would it be "virtual suicide" for Nintendo to release a new console before 2017? The Wii U will very obviously not last as long as the XBO or PS4, so they have to replace it sooner rather than later. The sooner they wash their hands of this console, the better it will be for the company as a whole.
Hopefully, they do it in a clever way like they did with the DS--release this "third tier" deal, and then, if it succeeds, quietly drop the other platform without consumers really even noticing.
The Wii U will continue it's course for another year or two. I believe, like the GameCube before it, it is a really underrated console. As for not having anything to play on the console, I currently sit on a pile of 82 titles (Virtual Console, eShop, & Retail). out of 457 eshop/retail and 148 Virtual Console titles available. And there are still about seven more I could easily purchase if I had the funds.
It will be interesting to see what Nintendo says this afternoon. Hopefully this will include the plans for Club Nintendo's replacement and the rewards for Gold and Platinum.
@JaxonH
Wow, it's like you deliberately choose to miss the point. At what point did I tell you, or anyone, that their preferences were wrong and to accept mine? By all means, surely you have something to back this up.
Did you click the wrong "reply" button? You may have clicked the wrong reply button. I referenced things in your post. You referenced nothing in mine.
It's like I said, "the world needs more trees, it's better for the climate."
And you responded with, "you're shoving ghosts down my throat."
@Hotfusion
And the day nintendo does that is the day I quit playing their games. I'm not interested in the good of Nintendo's welfare at the expense of the sole reason I buy their products. If I were a stockholder and not a gamer, sure, I'd agree. Cater to the masses. Screw the fans. But I'm a gamer, and have zero interest in seeing Nintendo sell out just to improve their bottom line.
Either make the good games (games they're making now) or don't make games at all.
@Quorthon
I'm not doing this with you again. Good day sir.
@JaxonH
It'd be fine if you'd actually comment on my comments, rather than inventing stuff to comment on. You do that to yourself.
I merely wanted some clarification on your post and you get angry about it. You have repeatedly attacked PSN+, but you renewed your subscription to it. You called the Vita an abandoned console, but when I point out it has more games coming out for it than the Wii U, you invent imaginary arguments.
I want to understand where the hell you're coming from in your posts, but all I get are bizarre returns or personal attacks--never an explanation. How hard is it to explain yourself?
@Quorthon
I said, good day.
@Punished_Boss_84
@JaxonH - It's like deja vu all over again.
This ones for you
So... We no longer judge consoles on entertainment value? Just solely on sales? Wow. I'm sure this is why the industry is failing miserably for the console side... smartphone games sell the most these days! So, we should just play those, also, they're free! Stupid discussion, were gaming, not running a company. Let's all go back to finding good games the old fashioned way, without sales figures.
@rjejr
Lol... You're always full of awesome pictures
Whatchya playing right now. Still going strong with Hyrule Warriors? I haven had time to get back to that game- it's sitting in backlog with the rest of Rainbow Curse and Tipping Stars. I hear a lot of people liked the DLC- is it any good?
@JaxonH "Only games coming to it are niche perverted Japanese titles and indies."
Lol that's true.
Seriously... this is it? Fearmongering to get clicks? Nothing else to report? This is ridiculous on so many levels.
NX can't release quick enough for me. This generation has been a total flop, with Wii u as the best format out of the new 3.
Xbox one - wouldn't touch with a bullet.
Ps4 - Had one, sold one, never again.
Wii u - awesome machine, awesomely overlooked and underused.
NX could/should be the start of a true next generation. Not the jon snowed results of lots of different ideas not fully realised. That goes for all formats.
Best format of last decade? 3DS
"It's Too Early to Write Off the Wii U Over The Legend of Zelda's Delay."
April Fools?
@rjejr darn! You beat me to the Willy Wonka meme! Haha.
Oh and it totally didn't sound like you were arguing with me. At least that's not how I took it. It came off as healthy discussion. I'm not so ardent in my views that I'm blind to other people's views. I'd go even further and say that $24.99 would be a nice price point for GH if they wanted a single pricing message across Wii U titles. I base that on fact that they have the $30 retail price point covered for new releases like the standalone New Luigi U and Game & Wario. Obviously with those games needing a price cut of their own.
They could also just teir off their GH Line:
$30 = $15
$40 = $20
$50 = $25
$60 = $30
I'd like to see a 3DS GH as well, but you know what they say: "If wishes and buts were candy and nuts, we'd have ourselves a party"
@rjejr I appreciate that Captain Toad, Game & Wario, New Super Luigi U, and a handful of other titles have released at a budget price. However, I think that they would have been more successful as the eShop releases they really are.
I really enjoy Game & Wario (which surprises me still), but it wasn't worth $39.99 asking price. I think it would have done better as a $19.99 eShop game or $29.99 retail game (maybe $39.99 with Amiibo included). I feel the same way about Captain Toad and Rainbow Curse. Both moved from "I really want to buy" games into "I'll buy eventually" mostly because the content to price ratio isn't there.
It feels like they are doing the smaller, experimental stuff that normally sits in the digital stores of the other consoles, but then trying to sell them at a premium pricepoint.
@JaxonH - Oh, I'm full of it all right.
Yeah, HW is keeping me busy. Finished Legend (story) mode on Normal, started on hard. The Ganon boss challenges are fun, though a bit too challenging at times. I even like taping my amiibo every day. First time I played thru all my weapons maxed out at 150 or 180, now I have 420. What some people call easy I call fun. And I finally unlocked Ruto last night, thanks again for the guide.
@electrolite77
"Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" -is an old expression meaning that some people will dislike your efforts either way.
Mainly I'm talking about the gaming media and the overly opinionated but under-informed trolls who plague message boards. Some people set out with the agenda to trash something, and they will literally contradict their previous positions to do it. The gamepad was a prime target for these people.
Any game that implemented unique gamepad use was a "gimmick" and every game that didn't use the gamepad beyond maps or off-TV play was a "missed opportunity"...and there are never enough games or uses to "justify it's existence" while they lament the fact that they "just want normal input".
If you post on message boards or read articles on major gaming sites, then I think you know what I'm talking about.
@rjejr
Don't mention it. Actually, now I'm sitting on an extra Majoras Mask eGuide. Bought one at launch then got another with that recent Majoras Mask new3DS bundle GameStop was running.
The trolling level in this thread has gone to 11.
@Darknyht - with that reasoning, I can't imagine how infuriated you are by most western mega-publishers and their online only arena shooters, more DLC then game releases, or 4-6 hour linear campaigns.
Am I right?
edit: and these aren't "budget" titles...these are $60 (+season pass) full retail priced!
@Quorthon don't take me the wrong way, I understand why you post the number of titles each platform is receiving, taking a look at the "support" argument, of those 120 some-odd Vita games, how many of those are either Sony's or funded by Sony vs how many are Nintendo's or funded by Nintendo? This is actually an honest question.
I submit that Sony getting third-party support doesn't mean that Sony is supporting it, it just displays the severe lack of third-party support for the competition. Which may have been the original intent you posting the numbers? Also, of those 125 games, how many of those are people going to realistically buy?
Of course the counter to that - the more titles available to choose from, the more likely folks will find something to suit their tastes. Which that is why 3rd party support is so important for any platform to have.
@Quorthon don't take me the wrong way, I understand why you post the number of titles each platform is receiving, looking taking a look at the "support" argument, of those 120 some-odd Vita games, how many of those are either Sony's or funded by Sony vs how many are Nintendo's or funded by Nintendo? This is actually an honest question.
I submit that Sony getting third-party support doesn't mean that Sony is supporting it, it just displays the severe lack of third-party support for the competition. Which may have been the original intent you posting the numbers? Also, of those 125 games, how many of those are people going to realistically buy?
Of course the counter to that - the more titles available to choose from, the more likely folks will find something to suit their tastes. Which that is why 3rd party support is so important for any platform to have.
@JaxonH who wrote the MM eguide? Just wondering if it's good. Several heart pieces are eluding me.
@Action51 Well... The last western mega-publisher title I paid full price for was Halo: Reach if that tells you anything. Everything else I've played, I generally wait until the price drops to what I consider a good pricepoint (especially if I know I will be buying DLC).
@Tazcat2011
Don't quote me but I think it's Steve Stratton
@Darknyht - I see your point about paying $40 for a short game. Many people complain about short games on PS3 - God of War 3 lasting about 6 hours being the poster child - and not wanting to spend $60 for those. I rented Last of US b/c it's only 10-12 hours. I didn't rent GTAV b/c 30 hours means I need to buy it.
But, I do think it's important those 1st party games get on the shelves, even at the $40 price, b/c Wii U needs games on store shelves. And $40 is still cheaper than $50 or $60. I got Game and Wario free from Club Nintnedo and it really wasn't even worth that to me. And the Luigi levels should have been a $5 DLC package for NSMBU, but since it's a playable stand alone game $30 is OK for the probably 2 people who played it w/o playing NSMBU first.
Also, Captain Toad and Kirby weren't really digital download type games. I play a lot of those and these were full games. At least as full as the Donkey Kong country games and Kirby's Epic Yarn and Return to Dreamland. I think it was nice of Nitneod to price that at $40, considering the small Wii U install base they probably would have sold almost as well at $50 or $60.
@JaxonH thanks, I'll get my google-fu on and check it out.
@JaxonH @rjejr wait. What? What's up with this HW guide sharing? I miss all the good stuff (head down kicking the dirt) lol
@Tazcat2011 - "the MM eguide"
Did you mean HW (Hyrule Warriors)? Mario Maker isn't out yet, and Mario vs Donkey Kong Tipping Stars would have much different initials.
Here's the link to the Prime one:
http://www.primagames.com/games/hyrule-warriors
@rjejr I would almost preferred it to release at $50-60 and then drop to $20-30 than to start at $40 and stay there. But you make a valid point. Perhaps if they had bothered to release the demos for download, my opinion (and desire for the game) might have been better. But then, Nintendo still loves to limit your demo plays so that you become paralyzed to use them out of fear of life causing you to waste one (okay maybe that is just me).
@rjejr Sorry, meant Majora's Mask.
@Sir_JBizzle - I traded Jax my PS4 Now beta code for his HW guide code.
Well it was something like that.
@Sir_JBizzle
He gave me a beta code for PS Now and I thought I'd return the favor. Although I played PS Now for 3 games and uninstalled it. 2 second lag and no appealing games killed it for me. Then the announced pricing just made me glad I rid myself of it.
@Darknyht - Yeah all my Wii U and 3DS demos sit at 29 uses remaining. Funny, and sad, but true.
On a brighter note the Target Wii U kiosk had a couple of new demos last time I was in there, Mario Party 10 and either Kriby or Toad, and a video for Splatoon, so at least the kiosk is being updated.
Nintendo doesn't drop prices though, that's a big problem for me. I think Mario Kart Wii, like 5 years old now, still sells for $50. Probably SSBB (on Wii) also. They do their own thing man. Must be home grown.
@Sir_JBizzle - Like the 1/2 price idea, but I don't see Ntineod selling new games at $14.99, so the $30 ones would have to be $19.99 as well. And the $50 ones $29.99 b/c I don't like $24.99 in general. When the Gamecube Selects line up launched I think most games were $19.99 but SSBM was $29.99 so there's a prcedent for that split as well. (I bought 4 games and the Gamecube the day after the GC dropped to $99.99.)
OK, now I'm taking this way too seriously
@Tazcat2011 - No, that's all my mistake, I'm Wii U consumed at forget the 3DS stuff. Sorry.
@Sir_JBizzle
Valid points.
My "how many will buy" comment should probably have come with a clarification--notably, that Nintendo fans are notorious for not being supportive of 3rd party games.
It's an odd fanbase that will buy almost anything from Nintendo regardless of cost or quality, but complain endlessly about everything 3rd party. Like Affordable Space Adventures or Legend of Kay--half of the comments in those focused articles are from people saying "when it's discounted, maybe" or complaining about the price.
You NEVER see that for any Nintendo-published game, no matter how lame it is. Wii Music? Sold over 2 million copies.
The odds are much higher that the games on the PS4 or Vita (or Xbox) will have better sales merely because they are on systems where the fanbases do not have a history of discriminating against 3rd parties.
It's one of the biggest gripes I've had about Nintendo fans. For the few of us who actually bought ZombiU or Splinter Cell or Call of Duty, there is seemingly a 1000 Nintendo fans adamant to never support anything without Mario, Link, or Pokemon on the cover. This isn't a new phenomenon, either. It goes back to the N64, and was cemented with the GameCube. Despite sales roughly similar to the original Xbox, multiplatform games always (except Soulcalibur II, wonder why!) sold noticeably worse on the GameCube than the Xbox.
So, clarification: That was my note. We can ask "how many fans will buy" for every platform, but only Nintendo platforms have a fanbase that has a historical animosity for non-1st party games.
And you guys better support Hex Heroes when it comes out! I backed them on Kickstarter.
Oh, sorry, I didn't address your question. I didn't look at how many were from Sony/Nintendo and third parties. I care less about 1st party stuff, personally--I just want a platform with a good variety. I have my complaints about how Sony has handled the Vita (and I don't think they'll make another portable unless the Vita does some kind of miraculous turn-around), but I find the Nintendo fan hypocrisy around the system highly annoying. As hypocrisy tends to be. Nintendo fans are eager to call the system a failure but to defend the Wii U when almost all the reasons they call the Vita a failure apply to the Wii U. Except for one: Sony's potential lack of games is heavily off-set by the far larger number of 3rd party and indie games. Nintendo is, in many ways, practically a sole supporter of the Wii U--especially on the retail front.
The point is, if one wants to say the Vita is a failure or an ABANDONED CONSOLE, but they DON'T say the same about the Wii U, said individual a hypocrite. Or possibly just ignorant of the facts.
@rjejr
And people complained about the limited uses of the demos. Who really plays a demo more than once? If you like it that much, buy the damn game!
@Quorthon - I think it depends on the demo. Some let you transfer info into the full game, Pokemon did this, and some have varying paths. I needed to play the Ni No Kun demo twice to beat the boss. Same w/ Hyrule Warriors. Bayonetta 2 would probably take more than 1 play thru if you are unfamiliar w/ the first. So I'd say 5x in general would be enough, once you could be like "What just happened?"
@rjejr
I really don't get the "not supporting shorter games" concept. Unless the game is absurdly short, like an hour long, for the most part, even a 6-hour game is an equivalent or better deal than a $25 Blu-Ray movie.
Frankly, I like shorter games. Nintendo championed this concept on the GameCube for a while and people complained, but I loved Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin despite their "shortness." They were short enough that I never grew tired of them, and at the time, played through both twice for better endings (Olimar... died in my first Pikmin playthrough).
People whined about the "shortness" of Portal 2, without considering how great the overall game actually was. I like short games. I don't have tons of time, so with a shorter game, I know I can finish it and move on and have absorbed the entire experience in that time. Or most of it.
Luigi's Mansion 2--perfect length. Eternal Darkness, a 15~20 hour game. Perfect length. Metroid Prime--around 15~20 hours. Perfect length. The Order--around 8 hours for my playthrough. A little short, but I finished it. Nano Assault for 3DS — really short, can be finished in about 2~3 hours. Okay, that one might have been a tad too short, but screw it, it was awesome and I had fun pretty much the entire time (except for not being able to invert the Y-axis in flying). Xenoblade Chronicles was awesome, but at 115 hours, my final 10 hours or so started to feel like a slog and it got to be draining. Every time I thought I was almost done, it kept going.
Bigger isn't always better. I lost interest in Skyrim, and still haven't finished New Vegas (shut up! I'll get to it!), and L.A. Noire should've ended 2/3 of the way through.
@rjejr
I just remember people complaining about the limited uses of demos on the 3DS and I was saying, "how many times are you really playing a damn demo?" Seriously, what a stupid thing to complain about.
I played the Bayonetta 2 demo twice, and fired it up for someone else to play a couple times, but even then, that was fewer than 5 times it was turned on.
It's cool when the content carries over. Etrian Odyssesy IV did that, too. But I started from scratch anyway when I got the actual game because I didn't like my original team name.
But seriously. What kind of jerk plays a demo endlessly, but never supports the actual game. "I loved it enough to replay the demo 50 times, but not enough to actually pay for the game." That guy is a bonafide jerk.
@rjejr
Not popcorn worthy amusement but amusement nonetheless.
I'm actually more excited about the future of the Wii U now more then ever! Sure the new Zelda isn't coming out, and yes that is a huge downer, but we're getting a lot of other great games this year, and I think Xenoblade Chronicles X will be a HUGE sale.
As for the NX thing, most times when Nintendo releases a game console, they immediately start working on the next one, so them announcing it is no big deal. We'll probably learn more E3 2016, then it will be released most likely in 2017, so we got some years left with the Wii U. I'm not worried about the sales, that's up to Nintendo to worry about, I'm just gonna enjoy some great games
I can only guess, they are working on non-linear gameplay which in turn creates different aspiring Links (ie imagine Link in Smash Bros. "Change character appearance menu, but instead of just an appearance change, each Link has a different set of skills and equips) with in depth cusomization through a sort of materia or other addicting level up system. Or maybe that's just what I'd be working on after derping a major release date.
@hydeks
The announcing actually is the big deal. Making an announcement like that typically causes consumer interest in the current machine to drop, sometimes drastically. Also, following the past three generations, the moment Nintendo announces new hardware, their support for the current hardware takes a noticeable nosedive as they reallocate resources.
This is the last decent year for the Wii U. It's going to be downhill from here. Once Xenoblade and StarFox are out, it will be racing towards it's twilight. Just like the N64. Just like the GameCube. Just like the Wii.
Once a company announces the new hardware and puts a timeline on it--as Nintendo did--they have now moved into "race to replace" mode, and they will be gradually moving resources away from Wii U development to whatever the hell NX turns out to be. If you bother to look around at the views of the rest of the industry outside of other Nintendo fans, the interpretation is that the NX is a new console and the Wii U is dead.
Regardless of what you may think, this is the industry perception that Nintendo is now facing, and it is the final harbinger of the closing of the Wii U.
@cantbedevin64
"While you are correct in that it's possible for a dual platform release. It is the exact OPPOSITE of the word ignorant, as you stated, to say that it won't (or very very likely won't) release on just one system. Given the precedence that there has ALWAYS been a dedicated Zelda on a Nintendo home console and also given the FACT that the Wii U isn't killing it profit wise. It would make perfect sense that it would release sooner than the NX and likely be one of the last big 1st party titles for the Wii U."
Again it is possible, but far from ignorant (unaware of facts, data, history, gen info) to say that this will be a Wii U exclusive, barring some remake, remaster, Ultra HD edition."
I don't think you're understanding the way I am using the word ignorant. Sometimes the same word can have various meanings. Nor do I believe you are understanding my context with the word with the importance of shareholders.
I simply mean the word in an unenlightened mentality, in that, shareholders matter. Look how quickly Nintendo doubled back on the topic of smart devices. And guess what happened recently? The Shareholder's Meeting. Repeatedly they said, no to smart devices, but now they have invested heavily into DeNA. It's too coincidental. It's quite obvious the shareholders had a hard discussion with Iwata, and I would deduce his job was on the line.
If Mario Kart couldn't save the Wii U, and Smash Bros. couldn't save the Wii U, what makes you think Zelda would? Zelda is a seller, sure, but not like Smash and Mario Kart are. Shareholders may say, why burn out a Zelda on a failing system. All I am saying is that it is entirely possible that this time around Nintendo could cheat a bit and release it on both Wii U and NX. It would still technically fit the context of "a Zelda per console."
I'm not trying to make enemies here, because you could be absolutely right, but I know that at this point, absolutely anything is possible when a company is forced to listen to it's shareholders.
@Quorthon - I prefer shorter games myself, 12 to 16 hours. But I also rent a lot of games via Gamefly, and buy used old games at Gamestop, and buy clearance at Target - paid $15 for a 3-pack of Skyrim, Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite a week after Christmas. Usually I'll only buy a long game that I can't finish in 2 weeks and want to keep. I used to trade a lot of stuff back in. I bought Skyward Sword for $30 after a $30 Kmart coupon then traded it in for $30 to Gamestop, so it sort of cost me nothing.
All that said, I still have a very general $1 per hour rule, so I understand when people take price and length to account. I've also been "cheating" a lot lately as my 2 kids and I play the same game, so Captain Toad may be a 4 hour game, but if I and each of my kids play thru it that's 12 hours. Not $1 per hour, but not $10 per hour either. But don't get me started on Skylanders and our 60 plus figures, I don't even want to do that math.
@Ootfan98
I would, but it would have to be a virtual hug, and we all know that those just aren't as good as real ones.
@MoonKnight7
I'd like to add that Zelda is not a system-seller. Not these days, and arguably it hasn't been for a long time. At most, it'll sell hardware to people who either already own the system or are the "already converted" Nintendo fans, predisposed to buy for that game.
Historically, no, there has not been a Nintendo console without a dedicated Zelda, but the way things are going, it would make sense if Zelda U ended up being Zelda NX. We'll know at next year's E3. Either it will be formally announced as coming to NX, or Nintendo will show the game, announce no date, and mysteriously not show any GamePad-centric features.
I fully expect it to pull a Twilight Princess. And given the scope and development time, and cost, it might be in Nintendo's best interest to put it on the NX or both platforms.
@Quorthon
I apologize my previous comment to you wasn't overly articulate.
If you like you can read my comment 4 spots above, and I do mention that it is entirely possible, so I'm in agreement with you of various degrees. I can see it going either way. The shareholders may certainly pull the trigger on that for Nintendo, even if it is against their wishes.
I agree, Zelda isn't as big as it was. If Mario Kart and Smash Bros. couldn't save the system, Zelda certainly won't either.
@rjejr
Geez, we avoided the Skylanders/Infinity stuff altogether. Never bought a one. My kid can be happy with lots of other stuff, and he is. With his Legos and Star Wars toys and my endless sea of Transformers, we have enough toys around the house without needing Skylanders.
I compare gaming to movies as "measuring entertainment per dollar." $10 for an hour of enjoyment, as set by the movie industry ages ago. You may pay $25 for 90-minutes of Hollywood dreck, so $60 for a 6 hour game works out to me. I very rarely buy a movie brand new (I support gaming, mostly), but that's kind of an average price per time you have there. $20~$25 for 90~120 minutes of "entertainment."
Now, if the game is tons of fun, regardless of price, I can justify it. I bought The Order: 1886 special edition, thought it was okay, didn't mind the "short length" at all, and generally measure based on the fun. I see it's issues. Did I get my $80 worth? Eh, maybe not that time. The game has some odd design choices and was just kind of "meh, it works but is nothing really special." Is Bloodborne worth the $80 I spent on it's special edition? Oh hell yes. The art book is really sharp, maybe not worth $20 on it's own, but the overall package is enjoyable.
Basically, I go buy fun and enjoyment first. For instance, I don't even remember how long Other M actually was--I remember hating almost every single thing about that game, and feeling like it wasn't worth a buck. And it's still $49.99 at my local Target and Wal-Mart. The same with Ninja Gaiden II and God of War I and II. I spent more time frustrated and annoyed with the games that, regardless of length, I felt that they weren't worth my time. I get why God of War is so popular, but I hated the quicktime nonsense and aggravating perfection-centric puzzles. With Ninja Gaiden II, I literally said aloud to an empty room "this crap is not even fun."
I guess, my long-winded post is to emphasize that length is too often used as a measure of gaming, when that is not the point. The point is, did you have fun? Did I spend more time frustrated and angry, or enjoying what I was doing? Splatterhouse redux? I spent a lot of time enjoying it. The Order? Almost never actually frustrating. Other M? I hated almost every moment of that outrageous sack of sexist, predictable, offensive, hollow, button-mashing crap.
@MoonKnight7
Ha, I was just noting that I agree with you. I felt the same way with Mario Kart 8 and Smash. Those are the titles that should have seen massive up-turns in sales.
It didn't happen, and that really sucks. Mario Kart Wii sold over 30 million copies. That is Nintendo's true AAA killer app game.
@Quorthon - think I bought Other M at Target on clearance for $4.98 about 3 years ago. It's still $50 new like you said though. I really need to play that.
@Quorthon
Haha, I wasn't aware we were agreeing there. Fair enough.
Personally, I really believe that Smash should have come sooner. I realize that it opens up the discussion of "well then they wouldn't of had a holiday game." and that is fair, or move Mario Kart closer to Smash, either way.
Mario Kart did show some nice growth, and there are some estimates that the Wii U was actually outselling XBOne soon after. Not by much, but outselling just the same. Then the sales started to wane, and it slowly slipped back to where it was. I believe if Smash had come out sooner, or vise versa to ride the wave, things may have been better.
Just a theory of course, as the biggest issue is there just aren't enough games to go around, and you and I have talked about that topic to death.
Btw, I am scared to death of being abducted by aliens, but I'm having a blast.
@rjejr
Target does weird clearance sometimes. I'm pretty sure I've seen games clearanced out that appeared on shelves again later. Stupid game is still there at my local one. I see it every time we go.
@MoonKnight7
Ha ha, I appreciate that. We just got approved for PS4, and are looking at another small, new game to break in the PS4 hardware that we'd bring to both platforms. In literally 5 minutes, we threw around enough jokes that we accidentally created a game concept we all wanted to do. We just submitted the patch to fix the Miiverse issue.
Per Mario Kart, I was expecting it to be a holiday release for 2013, and was shocked that it wouldn't release until May. They should've put Mario Kart up against the release of the PS4 and XBO, and they'd have fared better, I think. It would've really moved systems at a time when they needed it--and at a time when Microsoft was still licking wounds. Some of those 30 million MK Wii players would have no doubt seen it more visibly during the holiday season, and that would've been a healthy boost.
@Quorthon Personally, I had already backed Hex Heroes, so I'm solid on that front and honestly, my question wasn't a means to attack you, though I'm sure you gathered as much (hopefully) Which is why my OP also had counter points in it. I don't own a Vita, so I wasn't even really speaking from a place of whether or not it was dead, dying, abandoned or whatnot. I already know where the Wii U is, so I'm just enjoying it for what life it does have left, because I do think it's an awesome, underrated console.
Just a mild bit of criticism, I do think you tend to over generalize "Nintendo fans" sometimes. I would consider myself a huge Nintendo fan, because I love (most) of their games. And usually buy day one. But I also love all the other experiences that I can't find on Nintendo hardware for the most part. Which these days seems like everything. Of course I'm also not oblivious to Nintendo's problems, which I feel I've done an adequate job documenting. But then you have your fanatics, which like I've said before, (I think to you) are a special breed that are some of the most passionate folks in all of gaming. Sometimes beyond reasoning, but definitely not representative of all Nintendo fans.
Concerning third parties and Nintendo, there's plenty of blame to go around between them before you even include the consumer. Nintendo fractured their relationship with third parties long before consumers developed that "OMGNINTENDOORNOTHING!" we see run rampant today. It started with the odd hardware choices Nintendo made with N64, which drove third parties elsewhere. Playstation and later the Xbox became the new shiny that consumers followed, leaving mostly the most ardent of Nintendo fans/consumers on the platform. Nintendo hasn't really recovered since. Which is why it's important for Nintendo to listen to third party developers and striking the perfect balance of hardware and innovation (or gimmick depending on what side of the fence you're on lol) with their next hardware endeavor.
@Quorthon - "Target does weird clearance sometimes."
I know. I keep checking the Wii Mini boxes every time I'm in there. How long can they keep selling those for $99? I figure if it gets a 75% off clearance it's worth $25 for the Wiimote.
@Quorthon
Hey man, that's awesome, good luck with the PS4. As for your new concept, that's pretty awesome that you took a couple month's work and could do it in a 5-10 minute meeting. That's skill, haha. Best of luck, and keep me updated, I'm looking forward to more.
That's a fair point for MK in the holiday running. I feel with that and Smash, things could have turned around better than what it currently is. I always felt it was very wrong to release the 3DS Smash first, as I think it hampered some sales from the Wii U.
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