There's an upcoming patch for Super Smash Bros. on 3DS that will tweak balancing in the game, yet while some will call for that change to weaken Little Mac, statistics suggest that such changes may not be necessary.
This writer's been on the end of some sound thrashings by Little Mac players in the online For Glory mode — with a gauge that can deliver instant KOs and powerful combinations he can be a beast to fight when in the hands of a skilled player. He's also what should be considered a specialist character, however, as his default side special can be awkward to execute and — in particular — he's an appalling jumper. The odds of recovery when smashed off the stage are rather slim with the underdog boxer.
A combination of these factors seems to have contributed to Little Mac being — statistically — the worst character in the game. Nobody loses more than the plucky fighter, with Sakurai-san explaining the reasoning in detail.
For Super Smash Bros. Brawl, the individual character win ratios lined up nicely in a staircase format, but [for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS] one fighter has a significantly low ratio. It's Little Mac.
Little Mac is a fighter with very pronounced strengths and weaknesses. While he has an enhanced dodge and megaton-level punch for aggressive play, he has very weak jump power and a simple back throw along with a follow-up attack prove to be crippling.
It appears that the biggest reason for his low win ratio is because people fall under the assumption that 'Little Mac is strong!' and all rush to use him only to get pummeled in return. He gives the impression of being able to win easier than other fighters which leads to more people using him, but in reality, he's a difficult character to actually continuously win with.
To those expecting these patches to ultimately balance characters out to have similar overall stats, however, there's a categorical rejection of the idea from the game's lead designer.
I believe that averaging out character stats is a bad move in both play and competition.
So there you have it, while talented players can certainly clean house with Little Mac, coming across the boxer in an online match doesn't necessarily mean that defeat is inevitable. If anything, you should fancy your chances.
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 83
Recovering is a huge factor in a character's skill. Little Mac's is "just awful", so I can see why he's bad. Not to mention his weak abilities in the air.
He's still my little dude. Can't wait to play with him using a proper controller.
as sakurai said, he's simply a hard character to master. i've enjoyed playing as him!
I hate using little mac, but i love meeting an awesome player using him in For Glory, its amazing practice.
Haha
The most overused character is bound to be the one that loses the most. The most people play as him, but they aren't all going to be crazy skilled.
No matter how much I love Smash Brothers, I'm pretty awful at it. I've only won a few times online. And most of those losses were at the hands of these "unskilled Little Mac players".
@BearClaus Little Mac only. Final destination (form of one of the stages ingame).
Its worth mentioning that he's not exactly the worst character. All it means is that people who use him don't do well. "Balancing him out" would just make him overpowered in competitions.
I've dubbed Little Mac the For Glory noob character. I can't tell you how many times I faced someone playing whoever, have them lose, then immediately switch to Little Mac the next match.
Then some tosses off the stage later, they quit.
A perfectly balanced fighting game would be a boring game.
Wow... It's hard for me to believe this. I always get beaten in Glory Mode by people using Little Mac. They kick my donkey... Guess that is just me.
I get my donkey kicked constantly by halfway decent people playing as Little Mac, and I'm not very good as him. I always end up killing myself with that side B.
I'm pretty decent with Little Mac myself, though will never be the best with him. Whenever I face him online, he's pretty easy to fight, especially when I use Ness or Villager. Just like how Robin would say it, "Predictable".
Little mac isn't the problem, its the umpteen million sword users in the game, particularly the fire emblem cast who are hella cheap (particularly Ike) and they need nerfed more than anyone.
Mac's side B is probably responsible for SDs more than any other move in the game!
People often forget that Little Mac is awful when he's not able to use his "overpowered" strengths.
I agree with the response of Sakurai. Little Mac is a loose cannon that is difficult to control, so the "balance" is there, it's just different from everyone else.
I really hope they'll never just "balance" out the roster.
Having a game of basically 50 characters with pretty much the same stats for "fair balance" purposes would just kill the game appeal ^_^;
And no, I'm not saying this as Little Mac user, the only thing I'm good at with the boxer is using his side special with incredible precision! No matter how small, I never miss a hole with that attack XD;
He wouldn't be a true underdog if he wasn't expected to lose.
In other words, get good. I've been working hard to master Shulk, and he's definitely not easy to use, but he's the character I enjoy the most. I guess it's high time I join the online arena to polish my skills.
Im preatty beast at smash bros ^^ so little mac players are an easy target
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/
So many people use Little Mac so it's no wonder not everyone is succesful with him or know how to use his abilities most effectively. I don't really like playing with Little Mac because using aerial moves is so much fun and that's the area where Mac is the worst. My favourites are Zero Suit Samus, Diddy Kong and Captain Falcon. I hate Rosalina the most.
Okay. So the characters are not getting modified stats. So, why do the repeats saves have to be erased?????????? I assumed it was becuase of change of stats, but what could affect the game to the point of having to block the old repeats????????
I have so many good repeats from For Glory online mode... What a shame.
I think I've self-destructed quite a few times as Little Mac by using the side b over the edge haha
@Olmectron Replays would be different from the original version due to different adjustments that are made to characters, also I assume they will be taking out some glitches such as one that allows Wario to pretty much fly in the direction you want after he gets launched.
I think part of what did Little Mac in was his reveal trailer. It built him up to be so OP that noobs forgot about the FREQUENT emphasis that he has a poor recovery (and I bet fewer even knows he has a wall jump).
Though I do wonder how much better his chances are of winning once folks have a C-Stick they can mash on?
@Luffymcduck I'd argue that Little Mac's aerial moves are the most hilarious to land, only because most folks don't expect it to happen. But you can actually get a few KOs with a well timed f-air, or if you really wanna disrespect, fall with your opponent spamming your neutral air.
Most Little Macs (rightly) anchor themselves on the ground, but the ones that are not afraid to leave the ground are the ones people should fear most.
Well, I guess that happens when people just assume strong characters are good.
@AugustusOxy Learn his moveset, it's pathetically easy to counter. All of Ike's attacks except for his Side B have comparably slow startup, and long recovery.
Well I think that a big part of Smash is aerial movement and since Little Mac has a weak aerial game, it probably makes him lose more.
@yokokazuo I know that changing characters, even in a minimum and unnoticeable way can affect completely the repeat data. But, Sakurai said: "I believe that averaging out character stats is a bad move in both play and competition.".
So, that's why I ask: if they are not changing characters stats, and such, what could corrupt the repeat data? Didn't know about that Wario glitch, so it could be because of that and the Yoshi one.
Little Mac actually has good success in a few regions with pro smash scenes. He absolutely does not need buffs. Buffing him would be a balance disaster.
That said 9/10 Little Macs I run into online stay still and spam counter or press forward B over the edge. He seems to be a magnet for noobs. While I cannot understand it, as I think Little Mac is lame, I've heard many people say Little Mac is cool.
@Olmectron Actually you quoted Sakurai right, but understood him wrong. Sakurai didn't say he wasn't changing character's stats.... he only stated that he wouldn't "average them out" (meaning they would all be exactly as strong as each other in all areas). He could still make huge differences in some aspects of a characters playability.
Phew.. TBH, I thought it would be Duck Hunt, one of my new mains. I still need to learn how to use him properly (Actually, I do), but he's just so hilarious....
My other mains are Kirby, Pit and Link even if I don't use the last two.
I wish they would make Link one of the weaker characters in the game. That dude has so many attacks at his disposal long and short range that it's just hard to be even remotely competitive with "Linky poo". My friends always pick him and my best bet is either Mario or Captain Falcon to dispose of him properly. But it's not easy.
@DanteSolablood Okay, but " wouldn't average them out" is what you wanted to say, right? Sakurai: "averaging out character stats is a bad move".
You're right, that he don't average them out doesn't mean he won't modify them in some other way.
@polivar4 Link is not that hard. Rosalina is the must change character.
@BassLostie
Not just you, me as well. I've been unfortunate enough to get dominated by people who use Little Mac.
My internet is too bad to enjoy online mode, but Lil' Mac does show many traits of what Sakurai said in singleplayer. It's so dang hard to beat Master Hand with him and his terrible aerials.
However, against the terrible AI I can wreck with him.
@Olmectron Who can I use to kick Link's donkey? I don't have SSB 4 yet. I'm waiting for the Wii U version to come out. Any suggestions on who I could use?
@Olmectron Lol, I corrected my post before you replied to the mistake. :'P
But yes, Sakurai is still free to change how characters play, just not so they're all the same. That would make the game boring & a little frustrating.
I haven't had an issue with anyone 1 fighter yet. Most people I've noticed changed characters almost every match. I do. Little Mac Odin my rotation, but I don't like him other then nostalgia. The music for his stage is awesome
@polivar4 Any character can defeat Link. However, you could get an advantage if using characters like Palutena, Marth, Ike or Fox who can block/reflect some projectiles/attacks Link may use.
But I'm not a competitive player, so I could be really wrong in my statement.
Since I'm not that good at Smash with ANY character, Mac has been my go to guy simply because he FEELS powerful. That makes him satisfying to use even if I still lose a lot.
Also since I have yet to master smash attacks, he does a great job of knocking people out of the ring without have to focus on the whole "forward A" thing that I tend to do with many other fighters. Perfect for this noob.
@DanteSolablood I was late in writing my comment, it seems. You're right. Diversity makes life interesting, as well as gaming.
I'm not really competitive at Smash Bros, but it is really frustrating to have to delete all of my good battles in the For Glory mode. Some of they made me scream when winning. Sigh... Still, doesn't matter, as long as it is for the good of the game.
Like others have said, all of this means is that people play with and suck with Little Mac the most. Does not make Little Mac a bad character, because he's not. He's a great character... but easy to SD if you don't know what you're doing.
@Olmectron Oh yeah well I just mean for competition amongst friends. I can never play online sadly because I do not have internet in my part of Texas. Sadly even my portable hotspot is crap so I will never be able to play online. Wolf isn't in the game right? That's a shame.
Little Mac is a learning curve character. Once mastered, a few hits and a smash attack will be more than enough to kill
Haven't really gotten the trick to Little Mac yet. I am now and have always been a heavy arial fighter, and no matter how much I try to alter my style to main certain characters I like, I always end up smashing best as Kirby. That incredible recovery/attack up-B, destructive down-B, and the surprisingly strong mallet totally make up for the light weight. Plus, you can take the neutral B of anyone, so he's the character to main if you like to switch things up.
But because I love arial fighting, I have never been a huge fan of the "Final Destination" style stage. I wish For Glory would mix in non-flat stages without crazy hazards, like Battlefield, Jungle Japes, and Tomodachi Life.
I've always been pretty successful with Little Mac. Stay towards the center of the stage, use Right-Smash to recover instead of Up-Smash, and keep your guard up... and stay on the ground unless you've gotta jump to avoid something, like a pow block or the environmental hazards.
I don't find little mac to be difficult to beat maybe its just me. I have a friend that main him and played plenty of online and I win 90% of the time with almost any character I use. His attacks are fast & powerful but still avoidable. His air game is what kills him, its easy to get little mac off the stage around 60 to 70 percent so if you can just endure his onslaught he shouldn't be a problem. I actually find rosalina mains to be more of an issue.
I mastered this kid!!! But fighting against him with a very skilled player online is a great way to find where u stand!
I have 3-4 replays of my Dedede vs noobish Little Macs. Here's my strategy:
Stand at the edge, inhale as he runs foolishly towards you, and then jump off and spit him out before floating back up to the ledge. And if you're up a stock, you can Dededecide. So trollish. So satisfying. Fricking Little Macs.
Side-B.
no wonder, its very stupid how people just go on for glory and think its a free win, i once encountered a little mac that i dodged on the edge and he SDed 2 times because of his side-b
I've come across some pretty good Little Mac players, but some not so good. I usually play as Ike and I even beat some pretty decent Little Mac players with him! I love using Ike in For Glory!
I don't have much of a problem with Little Mac players, there are a lot of em that's for sure. I was in a team match for fun mode and a Little Mac player was on my team, he SD like twice in the match because of that bad recovery. Lol.
Smash is really the only game i know, where every character is the best and the worst at the same time.
Look at WiiFit Trainer. I cant win a single match with them for the life of me. In the hands of my GF, its pretty mutch an instant win for her.
It all comes down to knowing exactly what youre doing.
The only OP thing[s] about Little Mac, is the fact that he can KO somebody at 60% damage, which is kinda ridiculous. Also, he can't flinch when charging an attack! Which is quite frustrating.
Other than that though, he's pretty easy to counter off of and, and is easily KO with a simple back throw/smash combo.
@LordOfGamez YES! I ALWAYS do that. which is why I don't play as Little mac. Give me Lucario or Olimar any day of the week.
@WaveWarlock
Out of all the online matches that I played, For fun and Glory, I have not run into a single Olimar player. I forgot that he was even in the game. But I have seen people win with King Dedede though.
@Mr_Rawky He's my favorite player too! My only problem is that it messes up my circle pad. Can't wait for a real controller.
Some characters simply take more learning to use than others and Little Mac is one of them.
@AugustusOxy I bet when an Ike player charges his long smash attack you go full speed too it huh?Cause come on he's slow every smash attack is slow, just one dodge and you can do so many combos on him if you get it right.But wait that's for people who know how to beat an Ike player, you're not one of them sorry about that.What's next you can't beat a Little Mac player?
TKO
@JellySplat Ganondorf can do that as well, and he has more potential killing moves then Mac. Mostly due to his air game not sucking, flame choke being able to punish careless edge guarders, and his d-air.
But I have shocked people with how quickly Ganondorf can take out his opponent. To be honest, Ganondorf in my opnion has the best KO potential in the entire cast. Once he gets in and starts hitting stuff, he can destroy most characters in a few seconds.
If you hate Little Mac's KO potential, you're going to hate Ganondorf. He can kill a good majority of the cast around 50-60% with normal attacks and 40% if a reversed warlock punch connects. And he got Super Armor in this game when he does Warlock Punch.
Noobs play as him a lot, so of course he will have the lowest win rates. I still think that, independent of that, while he is not OP, he could use some nerfing. Too much super armor makes him not fun to fight, and he does have a huge advantage on Final Destination/Omega if the player is even mildly competent. He's beatable, but against most of the cast in For Glory conditions, he has a bit of an advantage IMO.
Rosalina is the only broken character.
Played All-Star mode with Little Mac and SD twice on the last level with his side special...SMH
@AugustusOxy pst what a noob, don't you know? THE FIST IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!
I was fighting this guy that kept using Little Mac in for glory, I never lost a match and increased my win rate a nice bit!
Side b off the stage.
The reason why he has such a massive loss ratio is because the majority of people who play him are noobs. The problem here is that the only stage in 1v1 For Glory is Final Destination. In official tournaments, stages like battlefield can be used. But since there are no platforms, a skilled Little Mac player will pwn.
A charged shot from Samus at around 50% can knock Mac far off the edge easily. Also a certain part of ZSSamus's sideB whip can have massive and fast knockback at any percent, which is fatal for Mac if used close to the edge.
Need to nerf the Villager. All my friends ever do is Lloid Rocket into the stage side, shoot slingshot, and repeat.
@WaveWarlock one of last nights champ at the GameStop preview event was King DeeDee!
i can see these peoples points,
@DTFaux I knew he had a wall jump. I love using characters in smash run that have wall jumps.
@JakeOfAllTrades use fox and reflect. He'll even reflect back the loid rocket when the villager is on it.
Fire emblem characters are so annoying to fight!!!! Little Mac kills himself with side b too mich
@rayquaza_master You seem like you're the type of person that would know about Samus' special moves.
Interesting, if not to be expected, I myself have SD'd myself SEVERAL times using his side special. Another character with low recovery is Ganondorf... I wonder if he was second in terms of self destructs online.
While I'm analyzing characters, I also suspect Fire Emblem characters and Zero Suit Samus have the best recovery rates, what with ZSS's boots, Ike's Aether, and Lucina and Marth's up special, and Robin's Elwind, all fantastic recovery moves.... Just don't Aether open air.
@rayquaza_master You seem like you're the type of person that would know about Samus' special moves.
Interesting, if not to be expected, I myself have SD'd myself SEVERAL times using his side special. Another character with low recovery is Ganondorf... I wonder if he was second in terms of self destructs online.
While I'm analyzing characters, I also suspect Fire Emblem characters and Zero Suit Samus have the best recovery rates, what with ZSS's boots, Ike's Aether, and Lucina and Marth's up special, and Robin's Elwind, all fantastic recovery moves.... Just don't Aether open air.
@rayquaza_master You seem like you're the type of person that would know about Samus' special moves.
Interesting, if not to be expected, I myself have SD'd myself SEVERAL times using his side special. Another character with low recovery is Ganondorf... I wonder if he was second in terms of self destructs online.
While I'm analyzing characters, I also suspect Fire Emblem characters and Zero Suit Samus have the best recovery rates, what with ZSS's boots, Ike's Aether, and Lucina and Marth's up special, and Robin's Elwind, all fantastic recovery moves.... Just don't Aether open air.
@Caryslan Yeah, but he's slow as Christmas. A skilled Lucario or Samus user could wipe him out easily. Which is what separates him from little mac, as far as OP-edness is concerned.
The real threat is a skilled Rosalina user. Little Mac is quite fun to play with though.
Actually the Mii fighters are super fun to play as!
I see so many people immediately switch to Little Mac after losing a match and they just get destroyed. Sure, he's overpowered, but he's difficult to use properly and is very easily defeated, often suiciding with that notorious Side B.
But damn is he fun to use. Especially in Smash Run.
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