Nintendo isn't at all keen on mandatory, system-integrated achievements or trophies. The idea was ignored for Wii, while gamers with an Xbox 360 got used to notifications re-affirming their awesomeness for acts as simple as starting a new game, with their Gamerscore continually getting bigger with each accomplishment. Sony introduced its own Trophy system in mid-2008 through a system update, opting to award varying levels of trinkets and reserving the Platinum awards for gamers with a lot of time on their hands. Despite this, Nintendo held out, and Wii gamers debated the pros and cons of achievements on a very regular basis.
When 3DS was announced, achievement-hungry gamers wondered whether the new handheld would start a new era of rewards in Nintendo games, but once again the feature was missed out. The StreetPass Mii Plaza has its own achievements, while titles such as Resident Evil Revelations, Kid Icarus: Uprising and others have included their own incentives, all isolated to the individual titles. Wii U brought renewed hope, with supposedly leaked details laying the ground for an accomplishment system; yet those that follow Nintendo closely — and more importantly listen to the words of its most senior executives — would have still had doubts. And so it's transpired, that despite all of the online functionality that it's bringing with the Nintendo Network ID and Miiverse, Wii U won't include trophies or achievements. At least, not for now.
It's interesting that, for all of the people who say they don't give two hoots (including some members of the Nintendo Life team), whenever the topic arises it prompts a fair bit of debate in the community. It clearly matters, as we all seem so keen to say why achievements are either a vital part of modern gaming or a frivolous load of old nonsense, with some sensibly arguing a point somewhere in the middle. Today's confirmation — assuming that the creative director and co-founder of 5th Cell, Jeremiah Slaczka, hasn't misspoke — means that Nintendo is showing a quality that we're accustomed to in so many areas with its gaming systems: it's going its own way. While competitors make achievements mandatory to developers, Nintendo is once again ignoring the trend.
On the one hand, Satoru Iwata's recently stated hope that Miiverse will become a games diary, of sorts, offers a more independently spirited approach to rewarding progress. Rather than developers telling you that collecting six pointless items from a building is worth some points or a trophy, Nintendo lets you decide which accomplishments give you pride. No doubt we'll see plenty of Miiverse postings saying "I got all of the star coins in World One, whoop!" and so on, and if the community grows it could, as has been speculated, become a gamer's environment not dissimilar to Twitter.
The Nintendo policy has been simple: the reward is in playing the game, exploring it and eventually conquering it, only occasionally offering unlockable bits and bobs in titles such as Super Smash Bros. Brawl — Masahiro Sakurai is clearly a fan of earning extras through meeting certain requirements. Imposing achievements can have the danger of distracting you from playing the game naturally and finding your own way. Make no mistake, achievements can have that effect. Anyone who plays games on an Xbox 360, PS3 or even the Steam platform on PCs will know all about their siren call: a notification piques interest, so you look at what other achievements are on offer. "Hm, complete ten consecutive kills with headshots, I can do that." Before you know what's happened you're playing the game to find enemies, aiming for heads and muttering expletives if you have the misfortune of killing them with a bullet to the gut and not the skull. Yes, willpower can defeat the obsession, but these features are included because they take advantage of human instinct.
So Nintendo's saying that it's up to developers, and we'll likely see achievements integrated into games. That's enough for some, but there are plenty of gamers that enjoy the chase of having a visible tally on their user accounts, as with Xbox and PS3's systems. There'll be no such unified score or tally to show off on Wii U, and that may be a disappointment for Nintendo gamers who like the idea but don't game extensively, or at all, on other systems.
The obvious and logical answer would be to mimic the systems from Microsoft and Sony, and make it entirely optional. Users can join an accomplishment system and gather points to gawk at in leaderboards or separate areas of Miiverse, while others select the "no achievements" option and ignore it forever more. It could still be left to developers to decide whether to use it — much like Miiverse integration can be minimal or more substantial, apparently, depending on developer effort — and those that like to brag about completing a particular lap in less than 90 seconds can point to their trinket and say, "hey, look at me". Yes, there could be an imbalance with some buying games that include achievements outperforming those that have the mis-fortune of buying a game that doesn't use them, but it'd at least be better than what's on the table at the moment.
This may happen in a future update, of course, and aside from some development effort we don't see any reason why Nintendo can't implement an optional user account-based system. While it's Nintendo's system and it can do as it pleases, including ignoring achievements for its own games, it seems slightly short-sighted to leave it out entirely. Time is needed to see the company's intentions, of course, as Wii U's software, much like that of 3DS, will evolve in the immediate months and years after release. The answer to this could be simple, and everyone can be satisfied.
If you want a Sony perspective of trophies, and why developers must share blame for the system's problems, check out Talking Point: The Trouble With Trophies from Push Square. Let us know what you think about these issues in the comments below.
I don't care for achievements really, some people buy a game just to raise their gamerscore
Yeah, I really don't care about it either. When I play Xbox and Playstation games, I never actually set out to try to get achievements. When one pops up, I'm like "ok, cool" but it's not a big issue for me.
Personally I dont like achievments and trophies cause to me its an excuse for game companies to claim that they game is X hours long when the games have very little content. Achievments are just padding for game companies to make games seem longer than they actually are. However I know some people do enjoy them so they might as well add them for those people. I on the other hand dont go out of my way for achievements when I play a game if I happen to get them during my play through great if not oh well. I dont need to brag that I can turn a game on or press the start button.
They are not needed, have no purpose and add nothing to the game. Keep us busy with unlockables instead
agree with all of the above
Uhh, yea, don't care one bit. Complete waste of their time.
I don't like Achievements and/or Trophies. I like to play games my way not the way developers want me to play.
The way I see it, Achievements and Trophies generally serve two purposes;
1 - Bragging rights for the player
2 - Usage statistics for the games developers
Arguably, MiiVerse could substitute both of these needs.
Players get to boast their accomplishments or ask for help, whilst games developers can observe statements about their games.
If a game develop wishes to put achievements into the game itself that's absolutely fine too, Xenoblade Chronicles did this nicely you know.
What!? I deserve a trophy for throwing a Koopa shell at one of the bees in MK7 Coin mode
They also may run the risk of disheartening gamers with difficult and puzzling achievements. Primarily the younger groups especially with it being Nintendo and outright confusing the new casual/ older crowd and since they focus on fun, I believe the inclusion of achievements will take away some of Nintendo's charm.
Nintendo is about fun. It's about adventure and story telling. We play to be enveloped in magic and taken away. It's not about wasting ridiculous amounts of time gathering useless points that you can't do anything with.
Achievements add nothing to a game for me, so I'm fine with not including them.
Couldn't possibly care less about achievements. If I want affirmation, I'll call my mom.
Eh, they do those sometimes in their games (Metroid Prime 3, whatever game Sakurai works on, lol), but I don't really care for them. I kinda figured they wouldn't do this, they'll just keep them game-specific or whatever.
Meh, SSB4 will have them..........
When I cared about achievements it only made gaming more frustrating.
This doesn't matter that much as long as I can post a horrible looking picture, of my Mii, Mario and Peach, celebrating a win to the miiverse.
While it seems like a nice idea having a gamerscore to brag over, I don't want to have to play a whole game and then do pointless things that aren't even fun just to 100% it. Things like sprinting 26 miles in game should not be an achievement, games should have enough achievements in them just by playing them normally. 121 stars with Mario and then 121 with Luigi is an achievement that makes me prouder than any digital trophy!
I honestly wish they'd at least make an optional achievements system. It adds longevity to the game and often includes some interesting goals.
If Kid Icarus had no achievements, it'd probably last 9 hours then multiplayer which isn't that fleshed out. The achievements add a lot of time to the game.
Hum, no love for achievements/trophies here. Can't say I'm surprised.
I, personally, would never buy a game solely for the trophies (I'm a PS3 owner) or NOT buy a game because it hasn't got them, but I fairly enjoy them. Of course, they are not NEEDED, but they got me to play games such as Uncharted and God of War III more thoroughly then I would if they were not there. (Especially because playing games on Normal nowadays almost doesn't require skill most of the times, and certainly not in Uncharted's case.)
On the other hand, I'm clocking almost 80 hours on Dragon Quest VI DS trying to do everything and the game doesn't reward you AT ALL (not even for completing the Bestiary, which is quite a feat), so I don't think Nintendo games really NEED them, they are usually good enough to make you want to complete them anyway.
But, having said all that, yes, I would like to see a similar trophy system on the Wii U, I think Nintendo would be able to offer some very creative "trophies". But that's just my opinion.
To me achievments are a way to add replayability and challenge to a game. I like replaying the game in ways i never thought about myself. On my first playthrough i ignore 'em. I even thought about how great it would be if they'd let you create and share your own achievements.
I don't like the sound of how the PS360's are doing it, but
I don't believe achievements distract from a game so much as Gamerscore does. Sakurai's games had a great way of including achievements that were actually relevant by unlocking actual content. (Kirby Air Ride, Brawl and Kid Icarus Uprising).
This is bad news and a step backwards, Nintendo need to make it at least optional especially if they are trying for the more hardcore market. I don't really understand the logic in not liking achievements. They only add to the game experience in my opinion. Some can be really fun to achieve, some frustrating but they are optional so what is the problem?
Nintendo has achievements:
5 Shiny Stars (New Super Mario Bros. series)
100% Completion (Wario Land: Shake It!!)
High Scores (Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wii Sports, etc.)
Stars Collected (Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy)
These are just a few.
Nintendo is just more creative with their achievements and don't hand them out just because you turn on a game or complete a chapter.
No to achievements as you don't really achieve anything and yes to unlockables.
Unlockables are good. They have a reason to exist and challenge them. Look at SSBB. It's bursting with stuff. Fun, gradually challenging and you get rewarded with things you can use rather than just stare at.
Achievements in Nintendo games? You mean unlockables!
No big deal for me. Unlockables (not DLC that will cost me more money) are all I need.
'... and those that like to brag about completing a particular lap in less that 90 seconds can point to their trinket and say, "hey, look at me".'
Shouldn't that be in less THAN 90 seconds? Sorry... good article otherwise
@yobokkie Yes, it should. It shall be fixed!
@Cranky Achievements are bad because they're causing a decline in the use of cheats, easter eggs and other unlockable secret things that actually have an affect on gameplay (because allowing that stuff would make it easier to get achievements).
Achievements and gamerscore are completely meaningless; they're just little jpeg thumbnails and numbers that go on the main menu of your console. A lot of people get games just to get this crap, and its leading to the overall degeneration of gameplay mechanics. Everything is becoming more and more about addiction rather than engaging the player on any gameplay or storytelling level.
Because games are increasingly focusing on being "addictive" rather than engaging, you're getting more and more microtransactions and "freemium" games which are structured entirely around trying to get you to spend money (not buy things, just spend money) rather than being interesting to play in any way.
@Advancedcaveman. Interesting though about the decline of cheats and stuff. That's true. There was something special about using cheat codes for fun and crazy stuff in games. I really miss playing around with my gameshark on the 64 for example. May have to get that out. Nothing like flying in Ocarina of Time .
@ajcismo Exactly... Seriously. Great comment.
@Advancedcaveman I think you're mixing two very different things here to try to make your point. The achievement/trophy system has got nothing to do with microtransactions or the Free to Play model. They are two very different "problems". And games have been addictive since they appeared as a medium, as those absurdly difficult games in the NES era that made you memorize insane patterns already were. I don't mean to be rude, as I kind of agree with some of the things you say, but they are just not related, at least not in the way you're saying.
I love the achievement system for Nintendo systems right now: None! That means it's up to developers whether to even implement them or not.And usually if they bother to put achievements in the games, the tasks are something more meaningful than "Beat the tutorial" and the rewards are more -er rewarding than 50 useless points. Some of my favorite games for Nintendo Consoles have achievements.
Ex: Kid Icarus Uprising, SSBB, Scribblenauts, and Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing
@photofool83 Exactly, they made achievements before sony and Microsoft did, and there's are better, I mean those are real bragging rights, not some kill 5 zombies in a row achievement, but unlocking the fusion suit in Metroid prime or get the largest mansion in luigis mansion, or get 300% in DKCR
Achievements add a bit of longevity to a game but they are becoming a little uninspired these days. I'm sick of getting them for finishing the tutorial level, it's like the game is patting you on the head...
I don't think consolewide achievements are necessary because developers can just make their own if they want.
I don't mind NOT having them. But it does give me something to do after beating games.
I could go either way with this. We dont get acheivements? Cool. We get acheivements? Cool. Either way, Im good
As long as Super Smash Bros has the in-game trophies, I'm good.
Also, Nintendo has Club Nintendo! That's something Microsoft and Sony doesn't have!
"Oh, you got an achievement for 10 points for pressing a button? WELL, CHECK OUT MY MARIO HAT!"
@Advancedcaveman I understand part of what you are saying but you are talking about a much bigger/different issue.
I only try to get trophies when i enjoy the game ( E.G. Assassin's Creed 2), some people will buy a terrible game just to make their score higher, I don't really care if nintendo put achievements on wii u but if they do i won't do any harm
Nintendo started achievements before they were cool, remember? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AjcBfE3jWDc/UDlGLYypBCI/AAAAAAAAFhw/IuX-pjEsOuY/s1600/NintendoCard.jpg
I know of a few people who would only buy a WiiU if it did have achievements. Personally, I think they can be handy in encouraging people to finish every part of a game, but they should be optional for people who don't want to see a notification appear.
Well, I hate the achievements for doing really easy stupid stuff, but the harder achievements are really fun, I was hoping that Nintendo would have added achievements, but not stupid ones, just a bunch of really random really hard ones to test the skills of the player.
Sort of like the achievements in Super Meat Boy, only very small amout of achievements are easy and neglect-able, the rest are hard and rewarding to get.
I don't think there should be a gamer score or whatever, achievements should be unlocked if you enjoy the game and want some silly bragging rights.
What about the SNES levels in Mario Kart Super Circut? Unlocking Petey and king boo in DD? Bumper stickers in MP3C? All gold in MK7? pyoro in WW inc.? Mona Pizza in WW touched? I mean I know some of those are easy, but there really cool ones
Achievements are useless
If anything, pointless achievements take the fun out of the game. As said in the article, the reward should be in playing the game. Video games are an experience, and that's all that matters to me.
Don't need them, but wouldn't mind having them.
i can't belive how some people are NOT bothered by this? unlocking achievements is one of the best thing's both M$ and $ony did on their consoles... why you may ask? because when you look up on a friend or certain player you can see what they play and how good they realy are and it make's you try harder to be better at games... i think this is very lame not to have achievements, but i'm still buying a wii-u no matter what
I enjoy achievements as they add a nice replay value to a lot of games. They help make a great game last longer. On the other hand they can be utterly ridiculous and they don' truly add anything to a game. I would like to see an achievement/unlockable idea implemented that gives you items and clothes for your Mii. For example, if you finish Super Mario Bros U, you get a Mario hat for your Mii but if you 100% the game you get a Tanooki suit. Simple stuff like that makes it worth it to me.
Nintendo doesn't copy, they get copied.
Trophies/achievements add replay value to games, make playing bad games worth playing (because at least you get something out of it), and allow you to show off accomplishments you have done in games. Trophies/achievements like ''I 100% the game'' or ''I beat a boss without getting hit'' are actually things to boast about for example. All that Sony and Microsoft did was make it a whole lot easier to do so, and it's a more than welcome feature.
This is just another example of Nintendo being foolishly stubborn and old fashioned, just like they have been with the Wii and Nintendo 64. It did them no favors then, and it's not going to do them any favors now.
For example, I was considering buying the Wii U version of Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed whenever I do decide to buy the game. But there's no point out now since Nintendo isn't going to do a trophy/achievement system, so I'll likely buy the PS3 and/or the Vita version instead. Also, I'll be buying the Vita version of Zero Escape instead of the 3DS version because of this.
Also, trophies/achievements are optional. You don't have to unlock them to enjoy the game and you can ignore them if you want to. But the excuse of ''pointless achievements take the fun out of the game'' is probably the most stupid argument I have heard against them. They're optional, but you CAN both enjoy playing the game itself and unlocking it's trophies/achievements. I know this because I have done so many times in the past...and it's not that hard, trust me. People who make this argument obviously never owned a PS3, 360, or Vita. That, or they put Nintendo on this ridiculously high pedestal that the company honestly doesn't deserve.
I can assure you that if Nintendo did decide to include trophies/achievements, most of the users would either be like ''Whoa, awesome'' or ''Hmmmm...cool''. I highly doubt there would be many gamers who would be wailing about trophies/achievements being included. But of course, when they're not going to be included, gamers act like trophies/achievements are either meh or some kind of unholy abomination. There are a lot of double-minded users on this website, and I learned that fact today.
Achievements make me play games longer. I would have played several games far less if it were not for achievements.
How is playing games for longer a bad thing?
Sure I could win 300 battles in Street Fighter with a Super Move without there being an achievement for doing so, but whats the point? I wouldn't have done so.
@seronja Because Nintendo DOES have achievements... And better ones at that, look at my comments about what you unlock for working hard in a Nintendo game, I can add more if you want. animal Crossing City Folk you get a Mario Kart Wii bed, Majoras Mask mask, midna mask, and so much more
@Knux So you brag about buying a terrible game?
Achievments in videogames have always been around, example - Super Mario Kart on the SNES. I'm sure we all remember not being satisifed with merely a Bronze or Silver Cup and aimed to get as many Gold Cups as we could. Whats the difference?
One of the (few) things my Wii does better than my PS3 (and 3DS is even better) is keeping track of time and times played. If this is tied into the Miiverse that probably says more than Trophys about a persons enjoyment of the game. You play the game b/c it's fun, not b/c you get a trophy after 87 hours of mindless extra-curricular endevours. I really don't see how somebody who has 13 plats by getting them playing Spongebob's Barbie Crossover is a superior gamer to anybody else.
In-game rewards, medlas, trophies, acheivements, etc. are a good and neccassary part of gaming - an overhaul comprehensiveness system serves no purpose.
achievements are cool. if nintendo doesn't wanna have acheivements first hand on their console and just leave it up to the developers thats fine in my book. lets hopes the devs bring great games. thats all i care about really.. no watered down crap..
I Don't really care about trophies on my PS3. It's such a messed up system. I will get a platinum for beating The Walking Dead when the last episode comes out. Fine you play the game and finish it. Another example of a good trophy is in Dishonored when you beat the game without a single kill. Besides the challenge the game actually changes depending on your actions so it's a different experience besides just trying to earn a trophy. Beating a game on the hardest difficulty or collecting all of the powerups, other good examples of trophies.
But in some games the requirements are just ridiculous and are not fun to try to get at all. There are games where you have to buy DLC to get all the trophies and you are basically buying a quest or two to get a platinum.
The Mii Universe looks far more promising as it shows you what your friends are playing and if they need or can offer help. The only thing I really use trophies for is to see what my friends have played anyway.
rjejr that is a great point.
That doesn't even make sense.
Achievements? No thank you ! Never liked trophies at my PS3.
Honestly don't care about Achievements. Wii U will be awesome with or without achievements.
Achievements aren't necessary. To me,they just cause stress....
I like achievements for some things...for some reason I only cared about them in MMOs like WoW, GW2, and then SC2.
For my PS3 I actually don't care a whole ton. I like when I get a notification it's like "ah cool" but I don't really go out and hunt them down or anything afterwards.
Nintendo doesn't need achievements. I think by the sound of it, miiverse might be the thing we need. We can use it to brag about specific things and not like on 360, where all achievements are designed by the developers, who are only out to make money, at least Nintendo cares enough not to copy.
I dont care.
I like the way Nintendo did it in the last gen. It was up to the developer. Some games added achievements, others didn't. It also makes it possible to add an in-game reward for achievements. I don't like the way the 360 does it. I don't need achievements in every game and I certainly don't need them after powerful cutscenes.
Don't give squat either for achivements ! When u receive achivement, it is like meeeh !!
Good! Achievements/Trophies really serve no purpose other than ego stroking and that's it. Up until they were invented people invented their own achievements such as finishing the game, seeing if they can blow up 5 targets with 1 shot, scaling the extra hard path to a cool item, and all that jazz. Now the average ADHD prone attention seeking ego-maniacal gamer appears to require such goofy popups saying you did something to not only to justify they're playing the game but doing it right and being patted on the head and needing a cookie. I have a PS3, can't stand the things popping up, and I wish I could disable the stupid stuff, especially the lack of ability to erase them if you ditch a game leaves meaningless clutter.
I would be up for a secret achievement system based on collecting Smash Bros.-like trophies. Basically you do something in game that isn't stated but in a special Trophy Channel on the Wii U menu you can see trophies ala Smash Bros. So do something in Batman like used Batarang 100 times, you'll see a Batarang trophy but you don't know how you got it. Also let it be an option for developers to do and let them choose whether or not they reveal how to get things.
Could care less about achievements. Playing the game and having fun is the most important apsect of gaming.
could care less about achievements~
The only thing I'd like Nintendo to do is allow you to customise your Mii. Maybe Nintendo could allow you to unlock clothes etc to customise your Mii by actually beating the game once through, instead of finding a specific way using an achievement based system. That way, when people look at your Mii on Miiverse, they know "oh he bet SSB4!" or " he bet Metroid 5, he must of collected all the power-ups" etc
Achievements don't matter. The only reason people are even against achievements is if they are the most EXTREME nostalgia obsessed people or people like me who are sick of people pretending achievements matter. Let's be honest, achievements are, and shall continue to be, an excuse for developers to put in challenges without having to make people put effort in to get rewards. Now granted, far from every game is that lazy on 360/PS3, and some try to have fun with it. But at the end of the day, it is one of the most obvious and laziest ways to arbitrarily and needlessly increase playtime in a game. The people that think it matters are probably the same deluded hypocrites that think buying CoD automatically makes them a "better than you" "hardcore gamer". Thus they likely are also the people that let Wii's mid-life interesting 3rd party titles die for no good reason, so they should be ignored by everyone.
I don't really care for achievements.
The only thing they actually do is stretch the game longer
Slightly (only slightly) disappointed. It would have been cool to compare scores on Miiverse, but hey, it is likely that other developers (possibly Retro Studios) will add rewards to their games.
I think most people on this topic agree on the same thing and that's achievements no longer have any true meaning. My love of video games isn't exactly nostalgia based, but I prefer a system that isn't always doing the same thing as the rest of the industry. Nintendo knows what they're doing, they are the leaders of the industry, it's just nobody that doesn't play a nintendo system, has the guts to admit it.
I don't care that it doesn't have achievements, I don't care that anything else has achievements either.
Had a PS3 and I game on Steam, imo achievements are just a gimmick that add very little to a game and are only there for people who don't get enough satisfaction from actually playing games for the sake of fun and story completion.
They can be fun when you get really bored with a game. It adds replay value. I think it kind of the same with how ps3 and 360 also send out a bunch of expansion packs just to make more money, kinda dumb..
I am actually better without having an achievement system unless it were to unlock, say, content in the game itself. That is more of a reward then a number.
Cue all the people whining about how achievements are pointless.
Oh am I late?
@Imagine23 And how is making game longer a bad thing?
Sony would probably try to sue Nintendo for copying this feature anyway
Once again, I have to say GOOD.
looks like the majority of us are underachievers
Achievements are fine, but they're not necessary, unlockables however are a welcome addition. Either way, a good game is a good game with or without achievements.
Remember back in the day when you could do something amazing in a game, and it unlocked a new character, costume or level???
Yeah, Nintendo still does that.
Give me unlockables.
Achievements are cool, but when I do something...Like kill 50 soldiers with only a slab of butter and good faith...I want to get the Awesome Sword of DeathKill.
Achievements sell games. End of story. They shouldn't, but I have first-hand experience that they do.
Achievements don't make me buy games, but they give me a little more reason to play them all the way through. Sometimes it's a little too easy to give up on a hard challenge knowing that no one else is ever going to know that I did it. I don't care that it's just a little badge or icon or whatever; just give me SOMETHING.
Come on now. We both know that's not something unique to Nintendo.
I don't care much for achievements or trophies. If they reward you in game, then I'll be fine, but if they are pointless conglaturations for nothing (misspell on purpose), then they are a waste of time and storage.
I think it would be a nice feature if implemented correctly, I agree with making it optional. But not only that, it should have some sort of "quality assurance" in the difficulty of the achievements and a set number of achievements a game should have (no more, no less). In that way the Nintendo simil to "gamer score" could reflect a little more accurately a gamer's skill and effort, having people actually put some effort and skill rather than harvest effortless achievements in a massive shovelware library.
When someone would have asked me this a few years ago, I would have been a lot milder, but nowadays I'm in the 'achievements/trophies don't matter' camp.
I'm not saying they're totally useless, but it truly is a FACT that there are a lot of games out there that make a total mess of it or don't implement them the right way to say the least, like the point of having to break up your game play, to get 5 head shots in a row, like mentioned in the article above.
But that isn't even the worst example:
Brothers in Arms on Xbox 360 - play the game for 100 consecutive days to get your ass feathered with some more points. Totally useless and it turned out you only had to START the game up to do this.
Some stuff in Gears of War had me REALLY frustrated though, like finding the dog tags.
I'm going to assume that not everyone has an Xbox or played this, but suffice to say that the general idea was that soldiers' dog tags were hidden across the levels and collecting them got you points. One was hidden in a train carriage but at a point that when you took ONE STEP too far, you'd miss it and the cut scene would start for the final confrontation with one of your arch enemies and NO way of getting back to collect the dog tag but replay the level, because the cut scene also saved your progress. (Xbox owners probably WILL know what I'm talking about)
A nice illustration that makes good fun on how ridiculous this gets sometimes:
And lastly, my personal irritation with game achievements nowadays is that a lot of them are exclusively online and like another friend of mine we just like to play large campaigns in co-op or single player, but not necessarily online, and then your score card will forever say '400/1000 points' because the other achievements are all multiplayer AND some of them are hard as hell, because in some game genres I'm just an average gamer, so I will NEVER play anything on insane or whatever difficulty setting above hard, 'cause that will only result in gamepads flying through the air...
Sure, if you do reach those, it does give some satisfaction, but I want to decide how I get satisfaction from my games, I DON'T want to be directed or have my hand held.
Until the first Xbox came out, NOBODY cared for overall points scoring tables validating their 'gaming skills' (which is something that achievements/trophies are DEFINITELY not) and we just wanted to get to the end of the game (and sometimes as fast as we could to achieve a speed run), improve our high score, beat our friends in local multiplayer, experience stories/characters for ourselves and find secrets WITHOUT in-game GPS signs...
So, if developers choose to add something to Wii U games and do it in a GOOD way, then that's fine by me, but if nobody does, then I won't miss it either.
As far as I'm concerned good for Nintendo that they are, once again, not following the mindless herd.
People saying that achievements are now normal, needed or necessary in games to me are laughable at best and apparently totally seem to miss the real point of playing games because of the games themselves and I wonder if they would still be able to appreciate a good game without them.
Oh, and don't get me started on people that buy a game they DON'T like, just to get a quick 1000 points just because it's an easy game. (and afterwards they sell it or throw it away)
Then again: maybe some of you are too young to have had any experience with games that didn't have these points so you don't know any better and then and ONLY then, will I understand that it seems like a normal thing to have in a game to you.
I have an xbox now and frankly I don't really get the point. I thought at first, oh, a nice lil incentive to play towards some certain goal to get something. but after a while I can see that there still isn't any real 'thing' that you get from them. I mean after certain milestones maybe get some points to buy games with? but nothing? Whats the point? And then if you consider the games where every two screens along it says "achievement unlocked, you opened a door" or whatever it just gets annoying since you know it means nothing.
So in that regard: totally useless. Now if someone can implement a way that it will reward you eventually with points to buy online games or something (even if they're very sparse/ high priced) it's totally worth it; to anyone. More incentive to play more/ get hooked/ spend more, with some tiny REAL perks along the way. That's the only way it could make any sense to me.
I know Nintendo is not about that kind of business model so useless achievements skipped? Great move, Nintendo.
I really don't care about achievements. 50G for scoring a bicycle kick! Whatever.
People say it adds longevity to a game, but to be honest, I don't need a reason to get the most out of a game that I've paid £40 for. I find it strange that some people say that they need achievements to keep playing a game.
Wouldn't this be good for third party developers? Less coding, more freedom in what they want to do, etc.
So glad to see the majority of people don't care about achievements. It's the vocal minority on non-Nintendo gaming websites that tend to obsess over them. And why wouldn't you? When you are reviewing games, you get them for free, and can skyrocket your gaming score. So then you can gloat about it.
Having a backloggery.com account having almost 75% of my games beaten is all of an "achievement" system that I need.
I don't really care for achievements that much I mean most of them are just plain simple. :/
Typical stubbornness and stupidity from Nintendo.
"We didn't invent a concept so we refuse to incorporate it to the detriment of our system".
Such an easy thing to have included and if they'd wanted to innovate on the concept then they could have actually made the reward for accumulating achievements something tangible like free Nintendo-points or tie it into Club Nintendo rewards in some way. This would actually encourage further sales of software but, as usual, Nintendo prefers to cut of its nose to spite it face by refusing to incorporate someone else's great idea into its product despite the concept of achievements/Trophies now being an industry standard.
Don't care about achievements so I'm happy they won't be included with Wii U. Xbox 360 and PS3 over use them and they don't add re playability like some people think they do. The worst contender I played was King Kong on the 360. You could get all the achievements simply by completing the levels. That is hardly an achievement.
I think achievements are very fun to complete, but they don't really make me want to buy or not buy a system.
Well then. After seeing the overwhelming dislike of achievements Nintendo, it appears the vast majority of us don't want achievements included or either see them as completely pointless. You seem to have predicted what your own fan base wanted.
Achievements add nothing to the game, actually they make gamers lazier, I remember having this weird competition with my brother in Ocarina of Time, we used try to stay alive as long as possible in Kakariko with the cuccos going crazy, not because the game told us too, because we think it was fun, we also did some other crazy stuff, like try to reach unreachable places in Mario 64, going in reverse a whole track in Mario Kart, we could do really crazy stutf with almost every game, now only Nintendo games let you experiment, but now gamers want everything in a silver platter, they don't want to think, they don't want to be creative, they just want a game that plays itself like CoD or Resident Evil 6.
@AltDotNerd How is Club Nintendo like achievements?
I don't care for achievements
Lots of interesting points in the comments! I just got a PS3 this year, and I've definitely enjoyed some aspects of the achievement system. In the re-release of NiGHTS, for instance, a quick look through the trophies revealed you could do something awesome with a car in the background of Mystic Forest, something I'd never noticed in years of playing the Saturn original! And while things like trophy-counts and 'gamerscores' feel totally irrelevant to me, I do like looking at my PSN friends' recently earned trophies to see what everyone's been playing. Really though, I think Miiverse will wind up being a MUCH better way to do the latter! I think that's going to be one of the coolest parts of the system, and way more fun than a trophy list. And the sense of exploration that comes from well done trophy collections can definitely be replicated without a system-wide achievement set-up, as it was in KI:U or Kirby Air Ride. So as always, Nintendo's going to do things differently, and I'm excited about it!
Great read as always Tom!
@ziLToiD That's the best argument I've heard for an achievement system being built in instead of developers making their own achievement systems for individual games.
I like achievements. It makes me wanna go for 100%ing a game even more. I just dislike achievements for doing something simple like starting a new game or completing the tutorial.
It seems to me that many people in the comments are mistaking the achievements/trophies with the Gamerscore/Trophy Level.
If Nintendo allows individual developers to set their own achievements, then there are achievements in Wii U games. As there has been in some Wii/3DS games, as Thomas mentions. SSFIV 3D included most of the trophies of its console siblings, including some extra designed for the 3DS.
If what you want is the more global Gamerscore (which is little more than an e-penis comparison to me) then that is what they are lacking.
I like achievements as long as they are not ridiculous or nearly impossible. And I won't ever play a crappy game to get enough achievements to boost a Gamerscore.
Nintendo isn't old fashioned for not including them. No, I believe they are totally right here. Even more so as well, read the comments here. The idea of including them just isn't very popular. Adding achievements would add absolutely nothing and would take some of Nintendo's magic away.
I really like achievements. It's a game of it's own and a good one at that. It gives a game a little more replay ability, and challenges. I want to show how awesome I am to my friends. And I think it is clear that even Nintendo's Developers want it. GameFreak's Pokemon Black/White 2, Sora's Kid Icarus Uprising, and Smash Bros, even Wii Sports Resort and Nintendo Land use achievements, so it is only silly that Nintendo is too stubborn to use other companies' ideas.
I don't care about achievements because they don't really do anything.
@sinalefa Exactly what I was waiting for someone to say!
Smash Bros, KIU and the like are different. For the things you achieve, you unlock things to use rather than useless numbers. This is good. You'd want unlockable, useable content rather than 5g right? The medals in Pokemon are frankly awful and extremely pointless. Now, as for the reward for beating Black Tower / White Treehollow say, well shock horror! You actually get something to use at the end. Who here would honestly bother with all that just for a medal that no one cares about?
@Kyloctopus I had already acheived 10 of the medals in Pokemon Black 2 before I even got the medal case so I had no idea I was getting them. You get a medal for walking 500 steps or something, evolving a Pokemon and even a medal for going home for the first time. What does that add to the game? Absolutely nothing. The other Pokemon games succeded without those medals. They are a useless addition, like achievements/trophies to make the people with low self esteem think they are doing well.
You also get medals in Pokemon for things most people would never do, like using splash, catching 50 pokemon in a day, and entering the hall of fame with 17 monotype teams.
Achivements = Unnecessary
The list of Pokemon medals...
You have to love the one gained for using Struggle... Who would even think or want to do that?!
Also, do you think 255 is quite enough?
With the prospects of Miiverse being an actively social game diary, the integration of an achievements system is primitively redundant. Achievements have now become one of the most superficial system integrations in gaming, and are now mostly relied on by developers as tactical diversions.
If you're truly set on sharing your in-game accomplishments, use an interactive gaming community network. Miiverse provides instant access to a dedicated social space like that, and it's easily accessible at any time on the Wii U. It's a fitting, more evolved concept of what socialising in gaming should be, more so than some shallow accomplishments system to boost your gaming ego.
@Tsuchiya I've had to use struggle in the past. That still doesn't make most of the 255 medals any less silly.
Thank you for posting that. I was about to post another elaborated comment, but you beat me to it, and said nearly exactly what I wanted to.
And in way less words than I would have: it would probably end up being something like my previous comment...
But that is more of a silly chore rather than a skill based achievement. And silly is putting it politely.
That's the point. For what you are often asked to do you recieve nothing to really show for it. So much so, that you may as well not even bother with it in the first place.
The only achievements I could maybe understand are those based on the main story as you are actively progressing through the game and if you like achieving goals but you'd be doing that anyway regardless of whether achievements were added. Although part of me actually believes some people only buy games purely for GS and trophy's and frankly, that's a shame.
I think the last time I used Struggle was way back in Red. I wouldn't use Struggle under normal circumstances never mind for a useless medal.
I like to set my own achievements or goals not ones the developer has given me. I actually turn off the achievement notifications because I feel they can really take you out of the experience for example if you are really immersed in a survival horror game like Deadspace.. that pop up cant totally kill the atmosphere or mood at a particular moment.
@Tsuchiya Sorry, I guess you didn't understand my comment. I was supposed to be agreeing with your opinion on the medals. The detail about struggle was just to show that it's hardly the worst of them.
It's either that, or looking in a bin. All 255 medals are pointless and they virtually all look identical. You could show one to your friend who may comment, Oh, I have that one..probably.
I do feel that achievements are an excuse for the developer, a fit of laziness perhaps. If you really need some kind of reward for playing your game longer or 100%ing it, then you haven't made a very good game, now have you?
But achievements for specific challenges I guess I'm fine with. But I'd rather you get a reward in-game as well rather than just an achievement.
@ueI and @Tsuchiya Pokemon medals for Splash and Struggle. You have never trained a Magikarp then? Use up all the pp for splash and it can use struggle. I had a Gyarados before I fought Misty using that method.
You can't even get a magikarp in Black 2 and White 2 until you're too far into the game to even consider using it. The more we discuss this, the more I realize the series has progressed since Red and Blue. What once could have been a pointless medal you'd get without trying is now a medal that you will never get without wasting extra time.
Azurill knows splash and you get that at the ranch at the start of the game. Back to the topic in hand. If developers want to add their own in game achievements then thats fine, but I'm glad Nintendo didn't decide to do them as standard.
Achievements are not something very important but I feel like getting an achievement is cool. When I finish a game I like getting all the achievements just for fun.
This article is a tad misleading. Nintendo has confirmed that some games have Accomplishments but they're not mandatory. Specifically Nintendoland and NSMBU. They just don't have a universal system for organizing every one over every game.
I don't really care either way. Some of them are are kind of fun, but not necessary, and i didn't feel any pride in getting them. I like being able to feel proud of what I think is an accomplishment, not what I'm told to be proud of.
I like the idea of achievements, but I don't find most developers handle it in a way that enhances the game. I usually prefer to not look at the PS3 trophies in a game, and just see how many I get 'by accident' on a normal play through of the game. Normally ends up being in the 15 - 25% range. I'd like to see more of them be things that you could reasonably be expected to do playing the game normally, rather than some of the BS wild goose chases they try to send you on.
But thats just me....
I think ssbb is the pinnacle of awards in games. Mainly because you actually have what I consider an award. In that game I actually strived to unlock things. There were music tracks I could get, new level-building parts, and whole new levels to unlock. No need for dlc!
@triforcepower73 I agree, it was the exact same with Goldeneye on the N64. There the achievements were unlocking cheats for the game. How many people got the Invincibility cheat? That required split second timing and luck. See, if getting an achievement actually unlocked something in a game, I would love if they included them. A pointless star or trophy? no thanks.
The last thing I want is everybody knowing how much time I sit on the couch.
I don't really care about achievements. Don't we already have unlockables? I think that is more than enough to satisfy the 100% completionist in me.
I actually would prefer some achievements.
It would get me doing something when I have finished a game, or I am in the middle of playing one.
I also think they should of added achievements to the 3DS as well.
Just like the 360
Here's a list of achievements http://www.achievementlists.com/ just so you guys don't say it's us "Nintendo fanboys" who hate it and don't know what achievements there really are, I looked at some and still think Nintendo has better ones
Out of all the games I have on my PS3 and my PS Vita, my gamerscore is sitting roughtly at 9% and I don't care.
I'm not against them but its some of the reasons people give for why they're needed I find silly. We enjoyed our games for decades without them. So then why do we need them now, what made you want to keep playing a game before thats changed? Why brag about achievements for a game you found boring and wouldn't otherwise play?
You shouldn't need incentive to play a piece of software that you bough with your own money.
If they were to add them I'd say leave out the gamerscore and let people pin them to their profile.
The only time achievements mean anything is when they unlock something in a game, so leaving it up to developers to code for it makes a lot of sense. No point wasting effort with bragging rights when players can and will do that on their own.
Shame its not done on Wii U I quite like it on the xbox, not having done the last jigsaw in Banjo's house means I don't feel like I've 100%ed it as its a trophy even though I've done everything else in the game.
Too bad I don't earn bragging rights for besting Bowser or successfully dodging a Blue Spiney...
I'd rather have awesome unlockables than achievements/trophies. I used to care about and go for trophies and achievements on my ps3 and 360.... Those were my dark days in gaming. I hardly had fun with them and was frustrated all the time. only games i really enjoyed getting them on were halo 3 and borderlands.
@CosmicMii you're right. Every console should be just. like . the . 360.
wow... just plain wow everyone seems to be confusing the whole achivement thing -_-
first on xbox is if remember correct you can turn it off(dont quote me on this since i saw this option a few updates before the recent one) and whats the big deal of not having them? your not being forced to do them so why complain? they do add some replay able value to them yes there is some stupid ones like completing the chapter but see thats the thing nintendo could do and take those out and only add the hard to go achievement that alot of ppl like and maybe yeah give you something for reaching that achievement i personally dont give a blank about the game score what i care is reaching that hard achievement or maybe doing those after i finished with my game and instead of going "yeah that was a good game on the shelf it goes to no longer play for a year"
as this article and a few users have mention some of the games had already some type of achievements so why ignore it when they already clearly have them and bragging right? ever since i been playing games i have never had someone come up to me or message me braging about how high there game score was cuz of there thropies and what not so idk what you guys talking about
if they did add achievements and a game score why not use that game score to convert it to like wii points? see now thats something nintendo could do that none of the other consoles have done... but fine if not the gamer score at least link it to our profiles so we can see it ourselfs later and remember those achievements we made
@Knux you do realise the Wii U version of Sonic has extra game modes right? If you'd rather have trophies than that, then you're not a gamer. You act like you're above everyone else because you do things you don't enjoy. Guess what, there's plenty of that out in the real world - in real jobs that pay money. There's enough ways to not enjoy yourself without achievements.
Achievements / Trophies are not harmless, they are polluting the minds of gamers - http://pietriots.com/2012/05/27/achievements-trophies-are-not-harmless/
Oh yeah, and I own a 360 and a PS3 and hate achievements, trophies are even worse. Nobody cares. Pulling the "balanced gamer" card just makes you look even more ridiculous. Sony's haphazard trophy system they patched into the system is just like everything else they've copied. Half-hearted and broken. Nintendo is bringing something new to the table with MiiVerse and we should all be grateful.
"Nintendo is bringing something new to the table with MiiVerse and we should all be grateful."
I couldn't agree more but sadly, some people are steadfast and will not be budged over this. I say leave em! Let them mess about with their silly little numbers and pictures of trophies while me, your good self and all the other gamers, play some games!
Don't you have to play games to get the trophies and numbers?
I still don't give two hoots.
Plus i heard here that you consider unblockables in Brawl like achievements. Yeah, because achievements always unlock stuff you can play with or listen.
actually. trophies are a pain in the butt on ps3. everytime i need to check a player profile or my own profile, it has to synch the damn trophies and sometiems it takes just too much time.
the crazy thing is that i think im around 600 trophies on ps3 and i never EVER tried to get one. they just pop out now and then.... how stupid is that ?
So i dont mind achievements like kid icarus did on 3DS. but silly trophies like ''start a new game'' or ''kill first boss'' is simply useless.
And in kid icarus,you actually get items and stuff. with trophies you get huh...wait... a bigger number on your profile ?
I like games where you do things just for the sake of it. Like decorating Windfall Island in Wind Waker. I actually felt a great deal of satisfaction when I finished it. I don't care that nobody else knew I did it, I knew I did it and that is all. I don't need a stupid text box to pop up saying "you did it", I know I did it.
@Trikeboy That's how I feel, and if you want to prove to someone else, just invite them over and show, who cares what random online people think of your gaming skills, your friends are the only ones you should care about.
I think achievements/accomplishments are an incentive for some people to explore more of the game. They may not be for every game, like zelda where you don't want spoilers, but others like Mario for the stars you collect would be kinda cool. Plus I think nintendo could have made some cool looking trophies when completing certain accomplishments. Especially on 3ds. You could have a 3d picture/trophy when you complete a game.
Also accomplishments are a neat competition between friends. Even if Nintendo doesn't show accomplishments for every game, they should at least implement a way to compare with friends
To younger gamers (highschool etc.) I could the option still having a problem of condescention. Gamers looking down upon their friends because they are "too afraid to show their gamerscore." personally, I would just say to give rewards for completing the same challenges, such as Zelda OOT, give heart pieces and bigger bags for those who finish the challenges. Give them something to remember it by, not just an arbitrary number.
I actually like the optional idea. It'll still show the person's score, it'll just say "this person has chosen to hide the achievements." I'd be turning them off, because I don't like them, but a lot of time I either see an achievement and try to get it and can't stop trying, like said in the article, or they unlock something. This way, I don't have too see them, developers won't make them unlock things, and people won't start internet wars. The end.
Happy they're not mandatory. I'd rather play a game my own way than be tempted to jump through hoops to play it the achievement way. I feel that approach moves the focus away from the actual gameplay.
i hate trophies, thank you nintendo. they suck all the fun out of video games for me personally
No, but I'm kind of sick and tired of companies forcing people to pay 2 bucks a pop for an alternate skin for a character when games have had options like these in games since the 80's at no extra cost, and I honestly can't remember the last game on PS3 I've played that had unlockables in it, other than trophies.
Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom comes to mind, I liked its unlockables, I actually felt like I earned something!
I don't see any harm in having an achievement/trophy/accomplishment built in for system wide profiles. Some people don't care about it and don't want it but those who don't won't be affected by it while those who do want it won't be getting it for a vocal minority that don't. Granted, if we have it or if we don't, it won't really matter either way but seeing a tally of unlockables across everything on your account that would of been built into the games with or without an account wide system isn't in anyway a bad thing.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but Xbox and some other systems require developers to make achievements for their games to be on their system. I think the best move is for Nintendo to not require developers to include them, but have a public display of them somewhere for people to see for developers to choose to use.
The miiverse turned out a lot better than an achievement system with the ability to show off your own accomplishments via picture and not simply grinding through terrible games to improve your score!
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