First off, you can now finally do what Nintendo promised months ago. If you update your Wii now you will get a little blue icon of an SD card at the bottom of your Wii Menu - Clicking it lets you instantly play any VC or WiiWare game you've got on it!
But that's not even the biggest news - If you go into the Wii Shop you'll find that Nintendo has added a new system to the mix. And it's Arcade, or as the Wii Shop calls it, Virtual Console Arcade! In both Europe and the US you can now download the following four arcade games for 500 Wii Points each (Except the first which is 600 in the US):
- Gaplus (Namco)
- Mappy (Namco)
- Star Force (Tecmo)
- The Tower of Druaga (Namco)
It seems Japan gets six games, but we're not sure which ones they are yet. Satoru Iwata also announced Space Invaders will be added soon as well, so expect some games to appear on VC a second time (The complete version of Donkey Kong, please?).
Watch out for our full reviews of these four arcade games soon!
I just got finished rearranging all my channels on the original and SD menu. This was an awesome update.
Edit: The US received the same Arcade games listed above.
Awesome! Something that should have been there since launch has finally been released!
Late or not it's good news
Great news. I never expected Arcade games to come out to the VC without Nintendo telling us.
Happy Days! VC Arcade is great news, and that SD card stuff.
GREAT! New System and SD Card Gaming! GREAT!
The best release from Nintendo in some time now. It's too bad the Wi-fi I'm using is down so I can't do the update just yet. That's irony for you. I completly agree this should have been top priority for Nintendo considering the amount of good games that could be downloaded. But as they say, better late then never.
That really is utterly tremendous news. Its not often we get the chance to say it but well done Nintendo! Now can we have 60hz please?
They also announced that Final Fantasy is coming to VC and a sequel to MLAAK. Before you get your hopes up on the VC FF's, not all of them will apparently come to the US and (hopefully) Europe.
I really hope the FF games, and if it is only in english, will arrive here in Europe!
A bit of a lazy solution. It still needs to copy to the menu
Also I heared this elsewhere, can anyone confirm etc:
"anything saved from a game loaded from an SD card can not be moved or copied, just deleted from system memory... if u want full move/copy, u need the actual game channel on the system."
It seems odd.
Also some larger games can't be run. Not clear ATM.
@slangman - they just announced it at the GDC.
Starwolf_UK: "anything saved from a game loaded from an SD card can not be moved or copied, just deleted from system memory... if u want full move/copy, u need the actual game channel on the system."
You're understanding it incorrectly I think. They are just talking about save data stored on the SD card not being accessible unless you move it to Wii memory.
Also, if World of Goo loads up (and it does), I'm pretty sure anything will. And it's far from lazy. As long as I don't have to copy it from the SD card to the menu, it's golden.
Wow, so Nintendo found a way to make SD loading work... interesting. And here I was saying it would never work because of some cards not being fast enough. I'm glad Nintendo proved me wrong!
EDIT: Well wait... the homebrew community proved me wrong first now that I think about it. Speaking of which I hope this update doesn't kill the homebrew channel... probably won't, but you never know.
I never knew until today.
New DSi Ware Game, i know: wrong page^^, later this Year! The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks!
Also: Space Invaders for the DSi.
I think that is Japan only, since Europe and USA don´t have the DSi right now.
Yay! I want Bust-a-Move/Puzzle Bobble, those Mario+Puck-Man racing games, and all of those Mario or Sonic arcade-only games!
/is updating right now and will give releases later/
Woot, it supports up to 32 Gigs!
Doublewoot, Starforce and Gaplus!
It was about time...
Let's see how it it works.
@RGVEDA - no, that was a DS game, not DSiWare.
Oh! Sorry! DSi (without Ware) or only DS?
I think only the DSiWare games are exclusive so far, so i'd say the Zelda game will work for both.
Here is a picture from IGN:
Are they all now available or some of them later this year?
Starforce any good?
I just tried the SD Card Menu. Works quite well. I'm uploading a vid now. After it finishes, I plan to do more vids such as looking at the VC Arcade, and launching a game form the SD Card Menu.
The original Final Fantasy announced for VC.
Gosh darn it, I keep getting "Internet Error" when I try to update my Wii despite the fact that I clearly am on the internet right now typing this from the same router, and my connection test on the Wii works. Not only this, but yesterday I could access the shop channel but couldn't actually download games... I am going to tear my hair out by the end of the day.
Whoo! Downloading the update now! It's running kinda slow...
500 Wii Points for the Arcade Games!
the arcade thing is confusing me a little. Is it like 500 each like an nes game or 500 for all of them? I'm crossing my fingers for the latter of which but i doubt it...........
I tried running FZero X and Paper Mario, and it said they couldn't be launched. It pointed me in the direction of "Auto Manage" or "Use Data Management". Back to deleting again.
Looks like a bit of game rearranging to make sure larger games work.
never mind on my last question, just got the answer from ign. anyway, to the people who have the update, will it run a game only if the wii itself has enough memory to load it up?? for example, to launch world of goo from sd, the wii would have to have 320 blocks of free space.
The Auto run makes no sense. I've heard Strong Bad and Toki Tori being run. Then Lost Winds being unable to launch...Lost Winds is the smallest of those three
will it run a game only if the wii itself has enough memory to load it up??
Yes, what the channel does is make a 'SD Card Menu Data' file which is large as the last thing you ran. It also says the name of the last thing you ran. For instance:
SD Card Menu Data
Can someone clear this up for me? I'm getting seriously confused. I can't access my Wii right now, so i have no idea what problems there are with the SD Card menu.
Also, now that the Wii can hold up to 32GB, does that mean we might see an increase in WiiWare file sizes? I know this isn't WWW but there's no relevant topic i can ask this on there
Is there some magic trick to make the update install? I tried pronouncing Abracadabra to no effect. I just played several games of Dr. Mario on Wi-Fi Connection, so the Wii is definitely online, but it doesn't want to let me have the update. I am about to cry.
new updates, new things to complain about! how lucky for us!
you have to go into the system options to get the update started. try doing that.
@bboy2970 - Not sure, I have everything on my SD card now, so there's a ton of space on my Wii now.
@saturnkid - it's most likely as bboy2970 said - clear some space on your Wii.
@Terranigma - Not sure, I'm not having any problems with it.
Official SD Channel webpage is up - http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/channelsSD.jsp
An interesting bit from that page:
"Some features of WiiConnect24 will not work with games or Wii Channels when they are launched from the SD Card Menu. These features will only work when the item is moved or copied into the Wii system memory."
Wonder what that will affect?
I just did my version of the N64 kid when I read this update.
What are the new arcade games available now? I realize the original article lists 4, but I read somewhere else that there were 6 games.
Japan has 6 games, Europe and the US only have these four.
ok, no problem. soooo do all games run off of it or are there a few ones that wont for some reason? also, does playing on wi-fi work from the sd menu?
All Arcade Games in Germany costs 500 Wii Points each. On IGN (http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/966/966162p1.html) it says, that Gaplus is 600 Points!
Obviously. I just said it wasn't working, not that I didn't know where to update from. It says I'm not connected to the internet, which I obviously am since as I said before I just played Dr. Mario online and successfully tested my connection through the Wii menu. I'm at a loss here.
Is FF The Aftery Years a Port of the Mobile Game or a Sequel? On IGN (http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/966/966158p1.html) it says it is only a Port!
@bboy2970 - Wifi works, I just finished playing some Tetris online.
This is a very interesting up date for the Wii, saves on a lot of messing around!!!!! I'm going to have a look at this, those new games what are they about? and Zelda for DSi could anyone explain this? I didn't think the DSi has a VC??????? Help!!!!!! Thankyou
No, PJ, you can play it on DS and DSi. It is not for the Online Shop.
thats awesome! it looks like this is truly the storage update we have been waiting for! THANK YOU NINTENDO!!!!!!!
WEll...my Wii might nto be collecting so much dust now.
BTW, You guys forgot to mention that Super Punch-out was confirmed for Monday.
Yay, that's some news! But soon we'll need SDHC support
@Pj, read wiiware-world.com's monday news
i believe 32 gig implies SDHC, but i could be wrong
hmm. Darkstalkers games are arcade games...
fingers crossed for Vampire Hunter and Soul Calibur 1
Super Punch-out was released this past Monday.
I really like this SD Card Channel! (Now to tell my brothers to leave the applications and save files on Wii System Memory while leaving the Virtual Console/WiiWare games on the SD Card.)
By the way, as I noted in the forums, this new menu indirectly blocks the Homebrew Channel.
I'm buying an SD card now! This is much better! Now the card can act as a memory card instead of a storage bin.
I'm surprised they're doing arcade games now, when they already have Pac-Man, Space Invaders, etc.
Still, this is great! Now, would the 2GB be sufficient or would the 4GB one be recommended?
I think you need to update your Wii for the games to appear since the Wii Shop also has some small changes related to the SD card game launching.
No idea what titles Japan gets, honestly, the Japanese Nintendo site isn't updated yet!
Holy crap, how unexpected!!!
Does this make up for only getting minimum games the past few weeks?
This is definitely one of the best firmware updates we've had for a while. I haven't experienced any problems playing any games from SD (mind you, I do have over 1500 blocks free now I've moved everything)
Good job Nintendo!
Holy freaking crap.
Daaaang, I just lost every possibility of every hating Nintendo now.
AND YES, MAPPY, I LOVED THAT GAME.
Shock and Awe! Is this an early April Fool's joke?
It's the sequel to the original FF:VI
Which is a port from the JP Mobiles.
...Yes it's a new game for us english speakers
No. I just updated my wii and gone to the shop.
@46: From what I've heard, it's a port with a few changed things.
From my experience with the update so far, every game should be able to launch from the SD card. I expect that the reports for Strong Bad working and LostWinds not working were from different people. The former had enough free memory on their Wii, the latter did not.
So if you want to be able to run games from SD no problem, just make sure you keep enough memory open (I have 400 free blocks on my Wii, and everything works just fine).
I am EXTREMELY happy this released, and just one day after I'd given up all hope! Way to go, Nintendo!
Just noticed that all of my VC titles are arranged by system. This makes it a lot easier to find the games on my SD card (I've got 169 VC games).
Now we finally can get Ms. Pacman on the VC
Awesome! I have been excited about this since it was announced. I hope they release the complete version of Donkey Kong, I will get it in a flash.
@ MrPinguy and Ferret 75
Thanks a lot!
If you go to memory management after you use the SD menu.
You see that the wii reserves the space for that
This may be THE best update EVAR.
Star Force reminds me of the horrible copy protection of the same name found on some PC games.
PLEASE bring arcade versions of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros. SOON!
do you think we'll see more games per week from now on?
Oh sweet updates! What would makes the arcade games better would be online play. Any of the past gauntlet arcade games including legends and dark legacy not just 1 and 2 would be awesome with online co-op!
I want Soul Calibur arcade really bad Namco please bring that out soon.
@MrPinguy: Yes, AFTER you've successfully used it. It seems some people have had trouble getting it to work in the first place, to which I attribute not having the memory available for it TO reserve!
@Bass X0: If games start selling noticeably better, then yes, I think we will. It's possible that Nintendo has been keeping releases slow because they didn't sell because people didn't download because they ran out of storage and didn't feel like doing the data dance.
Also, look how much closer to release 300 we are now! 6 games were released THIS WEEK!
HOLY CRAP! Bring the VS. versions of games out too! How big the arcade games will get, only time will tell. I doubt games like Soul Calibur will come out but the Arcade version of Super Street Fighter II won't be a stretch at all.
Also interesting to see that no Nintendo branded arcade games were released first.
Also Final Fantasy coming to the VC? Sweet! With all the NES arcade games out for the VC right now I wonder how if any of the VC released ones they'll wanna release.
Why the caps on AFTER?
I said after ok?!
Yes NES & SNES FF to VC.
I hope that they also give us to outside-jp people,
the originals Final Fantasy II, III & V.
Gosh i love V
More games have been announced as well:
The Return of Ishtar (the sequel to Tower of Druaga)
Solvalou (one of the sequels to Xevious)
Emeraldia (Japan-only puzzler)
I think it's newsworthy that all the NES versions of Final Fantasies will come out on VC (I would predict that FF III will come out far after the DS version's off shelves)
I would agree I would love to see Nintendo's versions of arcade games like, Popeye, DK, and Mario Bros. I would also like to see the arcade version of Splatterhouse and if there is any possibility I am hoping for Dragon's Lair
Wow I have to go get more Wii points now! This is the most epic week in Virtual console history!!!
The problem is that is that Square actually will waste time for translating old rom files?
For so few quick money?
(But i will predict that they WILL change the title screens of the original english FF4 and FF6)
(I also hope that they will give us a full version of the 4, you know with the special attacks that they removed from the JP one for example, but sadly, i doubt)
Bout damn time =D
You guys forgot to mention FF on VC in your article
I think Square could have the money to translate the FF Series...they did it with Part 3 and 4 for the DS too! But i think they would let it in english, like FF CC Life as a King
Awesome news, I did not expect this, quite a surprise if ya ask me.
I meant in America. according to the press conference, they said that Super Punch-Out was coming to america this Monday.
@ DDR Paladin
here is the link to Super Punchout coming out this monday
What's the difference between Mario Bros. for NES and Mario Bros. for arcade?
@MrPinguy: Yeah, my point was that I was speaking to people who hadn't gotten that far yet, and you appeared to try to correct me on it. I responded by pointing out that I knew what I was saying to begin with. That capped "after" was adding emphasis, because it was the most important word that differentiates between groups of people using the new feature. Didn't mean to come off argumentative or something.
As for Final Fantasy: The news report on Gamespot clearly states that FFI and FFIV are coming to US VC this year, while I-V will hit in Japan. Obviously, we can forget about the others being translated for VC. Seeing as I never expected those two to hit VC, I see no point complaining about this. It's an AMAZING release as it stands.
WOW. Very nice, plus the whole ARCADE thign coming out of nowhere. **Sudden revival of interest**
@ ReZon Thanks for the link
@ rat Thanks for the information about that article.
I'm going to have a look at these arcade games, does any one think on here that a Wii with more memory won't come out now? I hope this is the place to ask but I'd love to buy a blue Wii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Next, Nintendo needs to emulate rumble pak support and controller pak support for N64 games.
For those interested in Mappy and possible upcoming Arcade titles, don't forget about Namco 50th Anniversary for the GameCube.
GASP! Downloading arcade games asap. Hope we get Outrun and Space Harrier. Arcade games on VC? Take that Microsoft. Defo selling my 360 now.
@Outrunner: Are you serious? Wii can't run Castle Crashers, Braid, Banjo-Kazooie, etc. Selling your 360 over this would be CRAZY!
Freakin' awesome. I REALLY wish I wasn't short on money right now.
time for me to buy a big SD card and stick it into my Wii
now if only they could make it so you can save gamecube game save files on the SD cards
I hope we get the Arcade versions of Punch-Out!! and Super Punch-Out!!
By the way hello everyone. You guys are great. I've been snooping around for awhile to get the heads up on the good old school games. With ARCADE being included I would not know what to do without a storage solution. I was die hard downloading games on dial up. Taking like two and half hours sometimes to complete if the connection didn't get interrupted. I had no choice up until now. Now I have DSL which was a long time coming. It's been great so far.
I forgot about the ones they didn't release to America, I doubt they'll bring them out unless they jack the price up 200 points and dump the newly released version translations in the old roms. Which I also doubt.
This is a very nice update. Now the Wii Channel can do what Guitar Hero: World Tour did already. The best part of this update has to be the arcade being added. There are simply limitless opportunities for games now. (at least until you get to around current-gen stuff)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
C'mon Nintendo! Make it happen!
Hey, do VC Arcade games have the instant save thingy like all VC games (other than N64 & NeoGeo) do?
^Yes, they do.
Could it be possible to get the X-men arcade game? now that would be cool.
Thanks for the reply, that's great!
The best news I've heard in a LONG time! YES!!
Anyone getting an error when trying to download the new firmware?
I can't wait to get more Wii/Nintendo Points now! A new era of downloading onto the Wii less has begun!
@Metal Slugger: Yeah, Adam was. Far as I know, he still is. It's working fine for most of us, though.
Also, now that the Wii can hold up to 32GB, does that mean we might see an increase in WiiWare file sizes?
I wouldn't expect to see a huge increase since you are still limited by the cache files size (the most it could be is about 2000 blocks) plus it would make WiiWare worse since most developers seem to go as close to the limit as possible as it is...
Next, Nintendo needs to emulate rumble pak support and controller pak support for N64 games.
As well as expansion Pak
Thanks Stuffgamer1 I can access the internet channel, but its saying I need to reconfigure my internet connection. Not always when I started to go to the shop channel it said I needed to update and come back. Weird thing is it already downloaded part of the update and is giving me the 4.0 but it's not the full firmware update. I think maybe their servers are getting slammed so I will keep trying. Maybe later tonight when the mayhem has settled.
You know what should be on this?
maybe now the VC will get Mortal Kombat?
Also does this mean I can take my sd card to a friends house and play my downloaded games on his wii? I don't even have an sd card yet but I was wondering.
@JJ: I don't think anybody's actually tried yet (or if they did they haven't posted about it), but I doubt it. Fear of game sharing is widely considered to be the reason Nintendo didn't include this feature in the first place. They probably needed time to make it run well while still not letting you share games.
EDIT: Nope, you can't. Didn't figure. I took my brother's SD card and plugged it into my Wii. You can look at the games on there, but you can't run them. If you try it says "This title cannot be run on this Wii console." That's EXACTLY what I expected to happen.
It doesn't matter if you've downloaded the game in question before or not, because it encrypts the data on the SD card so it only works on one system.
If you could do that, there would be nothing stopping your friend from bringing his SD card to your house and fill it with your games, then play them on his Wii.
Yep, remember that when you download a game, it pulls a key out of the console's memory and assigns it to the file. Every console's key bank is unique... BUT they also have a common key shared by all the key banks where all the unique keys stem from. And if you could get this common key fixed onto the VC title, (and homebrewers have figured this out) then you probably can take the SD to other Wiis and use the games anywhere you want! Hmm maybe I should try that with my custom VC channels...
@118 Metal Slugger
I have been trying to download it all day since this morning. No dice. I feel your pain, brother. Mine didn't even download partially though. It still says Ver. 3.4U for me. I have gotten multiple error codes so far. I even tested an online game, and I connected fine. It is NOT a connection problem, at least not on my side. If you figure this out or get it to work randomly, pleeeease let me know. Hope you get it soon.
Sure thing Adam I got the nintendo channel to work once. Now it's getting an error too. I think maybe to many people are downloading this. I hope it works out for us.
I hope getting a partial download hasn't stuck me in some infinite screw up. My guess is late tonight it will do it. I'm new to DSL but I noticed my connection seems faster for downloads then. Man I am just glad I still don't have dial up. But it's all worthless if I can't access the store.
OK, I don't really know much about sd cards. is 2GB enough? how many games will fit on that?
@ Metal Slugger
If you have a partial download but then redownload, it should be fine. However, if it doesn't think you need the update, maybe it won't let you redownload, in which case... I don't know.
Reformatting would probably do it, but if you have nontransferable saves like Brawl, that would suck.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that!! Fingers crossed.
2GB is waaay more than enough, I would think. Well, depending on how download-crazy you are. I might need more.
@stuffgamer: I've been thinking of getting rid of it for a while now and I'm really more into older games. Banjo really isn't that great anyway imo.
Banjo's always seemed overrated to me. Then again, I dislike 3D platformers in general.
Aye! Superb news, storage issue solved! Has anybody tried it, does it work fine?
Arcade games for VC? Fine by me!
I like the 3d Mario games but never could get into Banjo. Anyway I'm getting off-topic.
Here's hoping for loads of old-school Sega arcade stuff.
Any chance the Wii could handle Radiant Silvergun or am I just thinking crazy?
So Time Pilot is now possible for a release?
You can use High capacity sd cards with the update
Namco Museum Remix has these games as well; if they put out the ones that aren't on that but are on Namco Museum 50th I'd gladly get them just to bin that because the Galaga port on it isn't that good and the presentation blows. Totally not worth my getting up and plugging in a Gamecube controller (which sucks for d-pad games anyway).
If Midway doesn't make their content available on this service they're really beyond hope and should go under now so someone that wants to leverage their old IP on the Wii can do so.
Sweet! Arcade games for the VC! I'm looking foward to some arcade titles coming out that never recieved a console port.
It would be so cool to have the old Konami Simpsons Arcade game on the wii with 4 players
& can i use any type of SD card now and is there a size limit?
I would like to see:
L.A. Machineguns: Rage Against the Machines
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (If Midway doesn't go bankrupt)
Super Sega GT
House of the Dead I
Street Fighter III
Virtua Fighter 2 & 3
Street Fighter Alpha 1 & 3 (SNES version of 2 might be released)
Dead or Alive 1
Sonic the Hedgehog Arcade
Gauntlet Dark Legacy
I know most of these games probably won't be on the VC anytime soon.
Well, this is the best news I've heard all day. And here's to hoping that Osman will come soon!
Sweet update! Purchased a 4gb SD card an hour ago
Ok there's something I don't get quit well. You can launch the games from the SD card but do you still need that amount of blocks in your wii memory? or it plays directly from the card? and how many blocks more or less?
They play directly from the card, a 4gb card has 31000+ blocks, you don't need Wii memory to play them from the card.
Actually you do. See all this "launch from SD" is is just an automated version of what we've been doing since storage became an issue. The game simply gets installed onto the flash memory and runs it from there.
Say the game is 100 blocks in size. You'll need 100 free blocks on the flash memory to play it. Luckily, they also added in an "Auto Manage" feature that moves channels from the flash memory onto the SD card until there's enough room. (I haven't tried that for myself yet but I think that's how it works.)
From the "Help" section-please edit VC-R staff!
*Can I play VC games directly from a SD card?
No, you can only play them from the Wii internal memory. SD card is for backup only. Of course you can always redownload games you have previously bought for free from the Wii Shop. There is a chance that this will change in the future and Nintendo will allow you to play games direct from the SD card, so watch the site for news.*
Adam got it to work! I ended up getting Bit Trip now that I can get more storage down the road. I believe it was and is still probably a server issue. I went to customer service and typed in the error code and they finally mentioned a server issue being one of the problems. Massive activity happening I am thinking. This a BIG update ( meaning everyone wants it). Good luck hope you get it soon.
Super impressed am I!!! Throw money at Wii Points this payday to show support I will!!!
Yay, glad at least one of us got it, Metal Slugger.
I, sadly, still have no luck. The blue progress bar never moves for five minutes, then an error pops up, not always the same one. This sucks. Not only can I not use the update, but I can't use the shop anymore, any I don't even play retail games other than Brawl, so no shop access ruins the Wii for me. This is depressing.
Adam I had the exact same problem hang in there. I had it download about half way then quit. I thought for sure I was gonna get it then I would get the error. At the very worst I would say wait till tomorrow. Obviously it's tough to do after all that time invested in this. If your up give it a try after Midnight eastern time. Maybe when it gets later in the west coast things will ease up a bit. Then most the east coast will be in bed. So there will be less people trying to download it. Hopefully you get it tonight to ease your mind. I know I was worried to death until I got it, because the shop is the most important thing for me as well.
Even better, now we're just 8 games away from the big 300!
Well, mine doesn't even get halfway. It doesn't move at all, so I think I might have a different problem. I'll certainly be trying all evening tomorrow after work. It's midnight eastern right now, but I'm way too exhausted to stay up any later. I just hope I don't have to reformat and lose my Brawl save.
Now maybe Nintendo will up the VC Releases back to 2 or 3 a week for USA and let Europe get more VC Games as well instead of a few every other week.
It's a pretty good day to be a Nintendo nut. <3 you, Ninty!
OMG. I just checked vc-reviews 1 day after this article came out and there are 150+ comments
Please please please get strider arcade, ninja gaiden arcade, final fight arcade.... stuff vc, give me arcade!!!!
VC Reviews staff: whats next? www.vc-arcade.com??? Did they catch you by surprise? Want to buy that address off me for $1,000,000
does this mean that wii can read a 4GB SD card
You can use now up to 32 Gigabyte SD cards!!!
I have read that you only get 20 pages of channels no matter how big the SD card is. If you have a 32 GB SD card, why would you only be allowed 20 pages of channels? Seems like an SD card that size could handle around 200 channels...
Also, it hasn't been mentioned on here yet, but Super Punch Out!! is confirmed for Monday in the US. Will we have a 2nd game with it? We'll have to wait and see
I'll download Mappy when i get some more points. It's been too long.
I don't know for sure, but when you a new game ratings appear for VC and the game was originally multi-platform, will it say which version's being released? I only ask seeing that rated games like Shinobi and Fatal Fury Special were released as Arcade games as well, so it's possible they could be released in that version, now Arcade games are supported by VC.
Then again, it's probably more likely they'll release the console versions but still, something to consider.
@Corbie: Why are you trying to get everybody to watch your video? There's nothing wrong with it that I can see. Unless you think most people didn't expect so little of the screen to actually contain gameplay, which I guess many Arcade enthusiasts may have forgotten. This is what happens with arcade games that originally had tall screens, after all. The alternative is the horrible squashed NES Donkey Kong look. Bleh.
@brooks83: I was talking about that (the storage half) back on WiiWareWorld. I even worked it out and posted it there! Look it up if you're interested. It's on the storage solution article there.
I did hear that bit about Super Punch Out!! somewhere hereabouts. Maybe it was also on WiiWareWorld (for some reason I can't fathom)?
@ Stuffgamer1 - Well it seems it went over everyone's head. Oh well, I tried.
It's about dang time...
Oh, and Nintendo, please bring us the "Original" version of Donkey Kong, along with all the cut scenes as well as the cement level that were fully omitted from the NES Version!
And give us arcade PacMan as well, with it's slightly larger maze format and original difficulty/speed. Hahaha, while I'm at it, I think I'll get me an NES controller port from Retrozone so I can play the original Pacman with a real joystick (NES Advantage).
Edit: This makes me so glad that I stuck to my guns and refused to buy NES Donkey Kong and Pacman!
Nintendo should definitly release their own arcade games. VS Super Mario Bros is a very challenging remix, and arcade versions of Donkey kong, Mario Bros and Punch out would be sweet as well.
How is VS Super Mario Bros different to the NES game?
I was actually making a list yesterday and preparing to settle for the NES ports of the Nintendo arcade titles, but now I'm glad I didn't (though they all look pretty good, Mario Bros. and the missing Donkey Kong stage excepted).
There are rare instances where the console port improves upon the arcade (the MD version of Chelnov on the Japanese VC completely blows the original arcade game away), but for the most part I prefer it.
I also like hearing the coin drop sound, which I think is the only thing missing from the Namco Museum Remix versions (they're all set to free play) -- @Terranigma, you know that's been out for nearly a year and Mappy and Gaplus are both on it as well as Bosconian, Dig Dug, Galaxian, Xevious, Pac-Mania, Super Pac-Man, Pac&Pal and Cutie Q.
This is the news I have been waiting for, now I can finally return to Virtual Console gaming. Now if we could have some premium games for the Wii I would be a happy puppy.
" I only ask seeing that rated games like Shinobi and Fatal Fury Special were released as Arcade games as well, so it's possible they could be released in that version, now Arcade games are supported by VC."
Fatal Fury Special is a Neo Geo game, there's no real difference between the "arcade" and "home" version of those.
I suppose the only downside to this is that we could see a trickle of old arcade games before we get to the good SNES games we all want. But with so many systems now, Nintendo would be fools to continue the single game a week thing they've been doing for a while. Still, we can't knock four unexpected games in the middle of the week.
The fact that we got those 4 arcade games out of synch with the regular updates makes me doubt whether we'll get an update tonight, particularly because we got 4 games. Maybe they can be so kind.
I was only using FFS as an example as i wasn't sure what other games we know are coming that also had arcade ports, like Shinobi and when i say that, i don't mean games that have already been confirmed for VC by Nintendo or Namco as their arcade versions.
Out of curiosity, which version are you referring to?
I already have one of those Namco "Plug In and Play" arcade compilations. That one has Bosconian, Dig Dug and Galaxian on it, alongside Pac-Man and Rally X, so that takes care of those games. As for the others, I'll probably get the 360 version of the Namco Museum, as it has Baraduke, Bosconian, Dig Dug, Dig Dug II, Dragon Buster, Dragon Spirit, Galaga, Galaga '88, Galaga Legions, Galaxian, Grobda, King & Balloon, Mappy, Metro-Cross, Motos, Mr. Driller Online, Ms. Pac-Man, New Rally-X, Pac-Man, Pac-Man Championship Edition, Pac & Pal, Pac-Mania, Pole Position, Pole Position II, Rally-X , Rolling Thunder, Sky Kid, Sky Kid Deluxe, Super Pac-Man, The Tower of Druaga, Xevious. It also contains arrangements of Pac-Man, Dig Dug and Galga. A Lot for your money. Buying it would mean the only value for the "Plug In and Play" would be the arcade style joystick. I'll think of something for it.
The only downisde is that it doesn't Cutie-Q and Gaplus but one game doesn't matter too much, patricularly with practically the whole Galaga series. I'll buy it once my video game ban is lifted (Don't ask). I've had to delve into Manga to keep me sane from not buying new games.
makes me doubt whether we'll get an update tonight,
Its WiiWare week so its unrelated.
Yeah, i guess. I thought it was VC week. This whole thing threw me off, as I'd nearly forgotten about the Super Punch Out!! update. I wonder what we'll get tonight. My Money's on either Bubble Bobble Plus!, Something from Hudson, Crystal Defenders R1 or SIlver Star Chess. Of course, it's 100% likely that i'm completely wrong.
Virtual Arcade! YES! I love my 2 and a half years old Wii! Hooray!
I'm referring to Namco Museum Remix for the Wii. That 360 comp does sound pretty cool (thanks for reminding me about Metro Cross and Grobda; those should also get VCA releases), though it's missing Rompers, Dragon Saber and Tank Force.
I still have so much to learn retro-wise.
Have those games been released on any Namco compilation yet?
Rompers and Dragon Saber are both on the import-only Namco Museum R for the Sony Playstation (It was awesome. Also had Motos, Rolling Thunder, Wonder Momo, King and Balloon and something else I think. Also a binder to put all six Museum disks in and included a slot for a memory card and a sheet of special memory card stickers. Pity Namco isn't still doing that).
I'm unaware of any Namco release for Tank Force (it's a tarted up sequel to Tank Battalion with much updated graphics).
Actually thinking of Tank Battalion reminds me of another Namco game with a similar graphical style: Warp & Warp which would also be cool to see and which I don't think ever had a console release, though there is a game called Warpman on the Famicom; don't know if that's related.
They are related games as Warpman is a sequel to Warp & Warp (which was released on the MSX)
Maybe Namco will be kind enough to include those games in their VCA releases in the future, or as part of a non-import Museum collection. I find it hard to believe that with all these collections, there are still retro Namco arcade games unreleased. Just how many are there? I need to find a list.
Wow, the Wii Update 4.0 is long overdue and a welcome sight. Although I'm more excited about the possibilities than the actual outcome, it's a step in the right direction. (I think it's a big step, but that's just me.)
Maybe now we'll see the "Arch Rivals" arcade classic! "Arch Rivals" was the most not-like-Basketball "Basketball" game I ever played.
We can hope...
Anyone think the new update is lazy?
Note that post was written before the update, but what he predicted came out true.
Definitely a long awaited update. The VC Arcade also seemed very unexpected. It's a good idea, I just hope that it doesn't take away from some of the games I'm still hoping to see released.
Epic update is epic. I'm loving the SD card menu. I've got all my WiiWare games alphabetized on one SD card and all my VC games on the other. Fabulous update and I'm loving how quickly games load off the SD cards; even transfer times seem to be improved overall. Terrific work, Nintendo! I certainly can't complain, even if this update does seem a bit overdue. But, it's here now and that's the important thing!
@Muzer: Whiners never cease to amaze me. If he doesn't like it, fine, but none of what he mentioned makes the Wii a failure as a console. They sound more like personal nitpicks on his part than fully legitimate complaints.
We have 292 VC Games right now in USA and maybe this will up the VC's Game count to 2 or 3 per week again hopefully.
So we could very well see 300 by April 27th or before. If we receive 2 games starting from Monday we should be at 300 by the 20th.
March 30th - Super Punch Out!!, VCA title
April 6th - VC title, VCA
April 13th - VC title, VCA
April 20th - 299, 300!!
April 27th - Super Smash Bros. or will 300 be SSB.
I know I am late to the party, but wooooo this update rocks!
It finally worked for me after deleting a bunch of games on a hunch. I guess the update takes up a lot of space... which I suppose is okay since we don't need space anymore.
Great news Adam! Hey I would try and re-download those games see what happens. I thought about doing the same thing you did I had 460 or so blocks left when I updated. I didn't delete anything and it worked eventually. After the update I got bittrip and a few classics and I am down to less than 100 blocks and it's working fine. Anyways good to hear you got the update. The only problem I see now is how much money I want to spend. I think Nintendo stock is about to go up big time.
I need an SD card I want the fastest anyone know if speed 6 is the way to go?
Lazy? Maybe. Would we all have preferred the update to have run games directly off of the SD card? Sure, but its entirely possible that the system can't run things that way- or, if it could, that quality would have dropped as a result.
Personally this is a great compromise and I enjoy seeing my games on that SD "black" menu. Honestly, the update just makes it seem as though the VC has a seperate "game" menu and that the time it takes to transfer onto the system is just your standard loading time for conventional games. In reality, waiting for a PS3 game to load takes a LOT longer than a WiiWare game and I consider WiiWare to have much better games than most of the PS3 library (with the exception of Little Big Planet perhaps).
I'm a happy camper.
@Muzer: I don't think the update is lazy; possibly Nintendo regard the updates required to all the WiiWare titles in order to get them to load direct from SD to RAM as being too much. You'd have to have all WiiWare titles get a new download to work properly -- can you imagine the number of people wondering why the new update is broken?
The way it's been done is the most transparent to the end-user -- no re-download of titles, just a system update and buy an SD card and you're done.
Of course it would have been nice if Nintendo had factored all this into the original release; clearly the success of the Wii took them by surprise as has the popularity of downloadable content.
As I mentioned time and time again... playing games directly from the SD is really hard to do. The homebrewers got it to work pretty well with MD,SNES,NES,GBA and I think TG16, but N64 games run really slow this way. (Sometimes at about 3 fps)
I think the path Nintendo chose is the best one. Sure it's just an automated version of what we've been doing for months but Nintendo made it a whole lot easier especially for casual gamers who's NAND's are just about filling up by now. I've also noticed the write and load speeds are a whole lot faster. So if this is Nintendo's final solution to the storage problem, then I'm satisfied.
This was certainly great news today. I've always wanted to see all my games laid out before me and now I can finally do it. Now, will I play them all soon? Probably not, but I still love it.
The new Virtual Console Arcade is also a delightful surprise. I can't wait to see what else we get.
One problem leads to another.
Is it just me, or is the shop channel featuring lots of hang-ups lately? I'm very happy to finally have the update, but I have to try downloading a game maybe 10 times before it works. Every other time Mario doesn't collect any coins and after 5 minutes he gives up and I get an error. And again, my connection is fine. Played Tetris Party online early with no problems, and finally got the update downloaded, too, as well as two games (out of many I attempted).
I've been having some problems with it today too. But mainly it was just the Shop Channel taking a little bit longer to load. It failed once too. Probably just high traffic. You gotta remember, "SD launching" is a BIG update and combining this with VC Arcade makes this even bigger!
That's what I figured, but no one else complained, so I wanted to make sure my Wii wasn't being intentionally uncooperative.
I hope we see D&D Tower of Doom, the Simpsons Arcade game, and TMNT Arcade Game on VC.
The Simpsons arcade game ruled! Ah, they don't make them like they used to.
Definately the best news I've seen in a long time. The SD launch was long overdue.
The first time I saw Arcade games being supported through Wii I think of X-Men, Aliens vs Predator, TMNT, Simpsons, NBA Jam or Captain America & Avengers. I got really excited at first then reality came to my head saying it may not happen due to licensing so got excited for nothing. There's nothing wrong dreaming about playing those amazing games.
Best Nintendo related news I've heard in a long time.
I'm lucky to still have one in the CiCi's Pizza where I live! It's a well known fact in video games that a Simpsons game is only good when it's just called "The Simpsons" and nothing else added onto the beginning or end.
Keep in mind they released the 1st one for the NES. Hopefully it shouldn't take much more to release the Arcade ones as well.
This is cuz Nintendo knows cheap, downloadable games are the FUTURE!! (such as it is. )
This is great for me. I have seven of the twenty pages on the SD menu filled already (I've had a 2-gig card). And I got a question that reflects my ignorance: how much of an issue, if any, is the flash drive actually wearing out because of all the copying and deleting?
Kind of profound to see an old NES game "load" for the first time ever, isn't it? XD
Cool. This is nice. I noticed my Wii glowing blue last night, but I unplugged the console, I will check this out later.
Begrudgingly, I move on. Wii System Menu 4.0 was not only announced, but released at GDC earlier in the day. Wii owners can save and play games to and from an SD Card, eliminating the need to "clean out the fridge" on a regular basis. As always, I'm looking for more -- namely, any details on how all this extra storage capacity might influence Nintendo's weekly Virtual Console and WiiWare release schedule. "You guys have put out only a handful of N64 games so far and I have to think it has something to do with that previously limited storage, but that's just pure speculation on my part," I say.
A screen grab from the E3 exhibitor's page. Look, there's Nintendo. Unfortunately, that's about all we've got to go on."I do think this opens up a lot of interesting possibilities," she says. "We will look and see how this impacts our schedule, but we're excited about it as well." What about downloadable demos or add-ons? Does Kaigler foresee a day when Wii owners will welcome these online extras into their homes? I wouldn't hold my breath for that just yet. "We haven't made any plans to announce anything like that anytime soon," she says.
Also, since I don't have anywhere else to put it, here is the list of games coming up in Japan during April.
Castlevania III Dracula's Curse
Kirby's Dream Land 3
Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask
Sega Master System
Turbo Grafx 16
I completely forgot that they announced the Japanese release list today, what with all the recent news. It's great to finally see Majora's Mask. I have the cartridge, so i won't DL it but i know lots of people who will
How are they handling the "insert coin" mechanic of the arcade titles? Has it been excised completely, or is it a case of pressing a button on the controller, like the Midway Arcade Greatest Hits titles on the PS1?
Insert Coin is the A button and Start is the + -- at least on those titles that only use a d-pad and a couple of buttons...
I see. Thanks for the response!
Wow, over 200 comments, this happens so very rarely I am surprised.
Yeah, I woke up at 3 a.m. the other night, to the update, and checked it out. I was very excited, seeing as I am just one WiiWare game from having my Wii's memory full. I have a 2 gb card...does anybody think I should go bigger? Or will that last me for awhile?
Also, the Arcade is totally new to me, didn't even realize we have that...the game selection so far looks...meh.
I've got a 2GB card with 11 WiiWare titles and 14 VC titles and the Nintendo Channel on it and I've still got over 11,000 blocks free.
I'm not about to run out and get a 4GB card myself; the fact that we currently only get 240 titles in total recognised means that you're unlikely to get full mileage out of anything over 8GB (unless you're a Guitar Hero fan or other games start using the SD card for storage...).
It's about time, I didn't buy a lot games because I was out of pages! Blocks were getting low too but I ran out of empty slots/pages first.
Cheers to SD cards! Nothing I've read has addressed if you can play games off the SD card on someone else's Wii. I'm guessing we are not the lucky?
I got an 8GB just yesterday, and I already regret it. I am having a lot of trouble downloading from the shop, but even with about 65 games (I think), I don't think I'm going to be anywhere near full. Of course, perhaps that will change if the Wii has a longer life cycle than past Nintendo consoles. Here's hoping!
Got mine on sale for $30 though, so not too bad.
I spent over 2 hours last night downloading all my VC games to a new 2gb SD card. I've had no problems.
I hope the simpsons arcade get release soon.
I went through my entire collection of WiiWare/VC games for 2 hours, 3 hours ago. It took so long to copy and redownload everything. Once it's done though, it feels good to be able to play everything again without messing around with storage
Also, seeing the The Simpsons Arcade game on the VCA would be a dream come true
Neat, but could this be my chance to try the Mario Kart Arcade GP series? On second thought, there's not much chance, what with there being Pac-Man characters and all...
@rodoubleb: I think I commented on that about 100 posts ago. It doesn't work, anyway, just as everyone predicted. You just get a "this content cannot be played on this console" message if you try.
I read through the entire post and comment thread that Muzer linked, and I have to agree that the Wii's software setup is completely retarded. I had heard before that the delay of this update was due to the system not being designed for updates, but I had no idea to what extent that premise extended!
Thing is, I'm USED to systems that can't update like that. Grew up with them, after all. The system with which I see the most firmware improvement is DEFINITELY PS3 (though 360 got pretty amazing with NXE, of course). I do very much like firmware updates and the possibilities they bring, but it's really not surprising (or a problem, given the target market) that the Wii is so limited. Frankly, I'd say we're doing good to get ANY Wii updates at all! I love this update, and am currently content with it.
Well, I couldn't pass up the great deal at Staples where they're sellng 4GB Sandisk SD cards for only £7, so I got one. Guess I'll use the 2GB card on the Japanese Wii and the 1GB will be a spare.
2GB Kingston cards can be had at Staples for only £5, so if you have one in your area it's definitely worth checking out.
Now I have to upload and download everything again; at least it's all local storage!
Great! Now give us some online play for these games! I'm sick of online-enabled games on the Wii being as scarce as games on XBox 360 and PS3 that are NOT online.
Yes! Ha! What great news! I've been off the internet for a while only to return to this? That's superb. I need to go update my Wii now.
This was mentioned before but I've got to mention it again. It makes me laugh as to think how cheap SD/Memory Pro DUO/etc cards are now. About three years ago 512MB cards were over fifty bucks, now 8GB cards are that much. I still have my original PSP memory card that came with it back when it first came out which was 32MB!
Well it depends on were u shop. 8GB cards I've seen around my town cost that much, but online there like anywhere from 15 to 35 dollars.
The Virtual Console finally gets the most important system of all.
A bit late, isn't it? Maybe they'll eventually catch up with their competitors. Having inferior ports of SFII and Pac-Man while others have HD Remix and arcade perfect games with online play and achievements has looked sort of, you know, bad.
I've got Star Force (which is currently on the VC now) on Tecmo Classic Arcade (which I got for $5, solely for Solomon's Key, Bomb Jack, and Rygar.), several Pac-Man games on Pac-Man World 2, a few (very few) Sega arcade games in Sega Genesis Collection (and Sonic the Fighters in Gems), those Megaman arcade games on Mega Man Anniversary Collection, Metal Slug 1-6 on Metal Slug Anthology, countless (well, a triple-digit figure) Capcom and Taito arcade games on four PS2 collections, even more Street Fighter with the Street Fighter collections.
I own Street Fighter, Street Fighter II, SFII: Champion Edition, SFII Turbo, Super Turbo, Hyper SFII, Street Fighter Alpha, Street Fighter Alpha, SFA2, SFA2 Gold, SFA3, SFA3 Upper, Hyper SFA, Super Gem Fighter MiniMix, and SFIII: Third Strike all across four PS2 disks. The only major things missing are Super Street Fighter II (big deal, Hyper makes up for that) and the first two SFIII games (but Third Strike is too good for anybody to really care), and outside of that I pretty much own every important Street Fighter game prior to Street Fighter IV (I don't care about home releases, the Movie Game, or the EX series), all on one system with plenty more arcade games!
I'll probably pick and choose arcade games since I have literally hundreds emulated, but I'd rather be supporting compilations since they're doing this barebones.
I haven't gotten to check out the shop yet, since the 4.0 update is required and there's no workaround for the homebrew community yet. I'm tied between updating and staying where I am, but the current selection does nothing for me so no biggie.
Hopefully, we'll see some harder to obtain stuff like Revenge of Death Adder, Arcade Donkey Kong (yay for DK64!), Bubble Symphony, some shmups that aren't from Capcom and Taito (I wish Dodonpachi was on one of my collections), and well, I can't think of much right now. Radiant Silvergun and MvC2 will hit XBLA a century before the Wii if at all, and even if the Wii had a trackball peripheral, Sega will probably NEVER rerelease SegaSonic.
Well, don't mean to rain on anybodies parade. I have a feeling that the whole arcade thing is just going to be used as filler, and that we'll be seeing sporadic releases of games from the 80's that are available elsewhere with tons of other games, music, and artwork, and none of the online play or achievements you'd expect elsewhere. That, and I already own many of the arcade games I ever wanted to own and it cost me somewhere between $100-$200.
It's more good than bad, but we've had C64 for a few weeks now and I still want IK+ and Jumpman.
I really want to see Sega put out some arcade games, though. That, and the long overdue Knuckles Chaotix.
@#218 why if you have the homebrew channel a member of vc reviews and its funny that you aint allowed on the shop channel cause you have got it
I'm going to go ahead and forgive that grammar there, since I'm assuming English isn't your first language. You also probably read my whole post if you're asking this, so I'm probably obligated to log back in and respond now.
You're wondering, "Why did I join VC-Reviews, and why do I want to use the Wii Shop if I can just pirate games with the Homebrew Channel", right? Well, I'd like to know the answer to that too. Truth is, I do love the emulation and I can play games that will never be on the Virtual Console. Also, I can play Herzog Zwei, which should've been on the Virtual Console a long time ago.
I mostly just buy my top favorite games, especially the ones that are multiplayer or haven't been rereleased in a long time. I haven't bought anything in a long time, but if Rondo of Blood, for example, shows up, I'll definitely get it. I have Ys, Lost Levels, SMB, SMB3, Castlevania III, Contra III, Super Metroid, ToeJam & Earl, Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa, Do Re Mi Fantasy, Puyo Puyo 2, Sin & Punishment, Bubble Bobble, Bomberman 93.
If it's been rereleased a lot, I already own a version, or I'd rather hold out for some other release of it, then I usually don't bother spending my money on it. The fact that they released import games I could only play on emulators like Sin & Punishment, Do Re Mi Fantasy, Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa, Puyo Puyo 2 (The real deal, with Arle and tons of options!), and Lost Levels (Also the real deal, as opposed to the 16-bit All-Stars and not entirely intact SMB Deluxe version) is something I wholeheartedly support.
Actually paying for them lets me say I actually own them, and I've been told the best way to talk to a company is to talk to them with your wallet. Shut them out when they don't care about what you want, and spend your money on what you like and want to see more of.
Stuff like Ys Book I & II is nice for the fact that most people do not and will never realistically invest in a TurboGrafx and the game. $8 is an outstanding price for this game.
However, I'm not going to individually assemble collections of every last game I'm interested in that I don't already own. I'm not quite happy with the way of downloading individual games this generation. I'd rather shun the VC for the most part and support game compilation disks, which we had a ton of on the PS2, Gamecube, and XBox. You can imagine my stance on DLC, but that's a debate almost as big as the internet itself.
Unfortunately, we're not exactly getting a lot of that, though we did get Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. I prefer collections on PS2 (I don't care if it's dying. I have at least 10 collections on the thing), so hopefully I'll be able to get my hands on Samurai Shodown Anthology. I've heard it's finally out of delay limbo.
It's not totally funny that I can't access the shop. You see, I don't just use the Homebrew Channel for emulation. I'm still waiting for a version of Wii Doom that actually works. The Homebrew Community hasn't exactly been as impressive as the PSP, and neither seem to have as much cool stuff as the Dreamcast did. I had this cool four-player 3D homebrew game I remember.
Still, I don't want to update and have them add, I don't know, a version of Bolo, a program that lets you download small homebrew apps to your DS, some kind of game that can interface with the DS, any cool homebrew with online play, or some genius soon-to-be-professional programmer comes up with the best use for the Wiimote to date.
So, though I'll probably be disappointed in a few years, I'd rather not update quite yet. Somebody will surely figure out a way to access the shop without updating, though.
And yeah, it is a bit funny. I can pirate games all I want on the Wii, and because of that Nintendo is trying to prevent me from actually paying for them. Just because I have The Homebrew Channel doesn't automatically mean I condone piracy. Much... coughherzogzweicough :3
Having inferior ports of SFII and Pac-Man while others have HD Remix and arcade perfect games with online play and achievements has looked sort of, you know, bad.
Those other consoles were also more expensive than the Wii. Its a case of "you get what you pay for". You pay less you get less; you pay more you get more. That's really just how it is.
Awesome update. It works great for me, and I only have a 1GB card which I haven't even filled up yet.
I want to play Pac-Land! Come on, Nintendo! Make it happen!
I'd like Pac-Land, too, actually. I've long been curious about that game, but it's not on any collections I have! I think it was on one of the REALLY rare PS1 Namco collections, but that was it.
If I remember correctly, Pac-Man 2 was really more like Pac-Land 2. That's what the little I know of Pac-Land makes it look like, anyway.
I would have commented this earlier but I forgot my login. Anyway, a brilliant update, the VCA games will be interesting to see. I haven't got round to buying a SD card yet but the update is great news all the same.
@PuppetMasterKuruku your probaly just gonna reply with a long boring comment if I replied properly so i'm not going to
This was a great update
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