At the start of 2008 we asked a few probing questions about the state of the Virtual Console and came to the conclusion that despite some grumblings from the fan base, the service still had an awful lot to give.
Looking back on the year that has certainly been the case; we've been gifted with the likes of Shining Force II, Mario Golf, Super Mario RPG, Ys Book I & II, Star Parodier, Metal Slug, Lords of Thunder, StarTropics and Secret of Mana - a truly awesome selection of games, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. However, going into 2009 the picture is slightly less clear.
As we pointed out in 2008, the launch of WiiWare has resulted in a downturn in the volume of Virtual Console releases; Nintendo knows that Wii owners only have so many Wii Points to spend on downloadable content and has understandably attempted to create an even ‘split’ between the two services.
However, for those of you that have little to no interest in the products available on WiiWare (and with some justification - even the most staunch Ninty fan would have to admit that some of the games have been total shovelware), this shift has been hard to stomach. You could argue that retro-addicts have been unfairly deprived of vital AAA titles thanks to the emergence of WiiWare.
However, Nintendo’s DLC strategy aside, there are more worrying signs. A quick look at the Virtual Console Coming Soon list reveals a distinct lack of killer software; sure, we have the likes of MUSHA Aleste and Super Smash Bros, but how long will we have to wait for these games, given Nintendo’s rather haphazard release policy?
Add to this the rather worrying rumour that Hudson has scaled back its Virtual Console plans and the future of the service ends up looking even less rosy. Naturally we contacted Hudson for clarification on the gossip, and were told that the company is looking to focus on WiiWare rather than the Virtual Console. While the publisher clearly still has plans for the Japanese arm of the service, the lack of recent Hudson titles in the West speaks volumes; this change of plan means we may never see the excellent Castlevania: Rondo of Blood on the Wii.
This recent lull is made even harder to bear by the fact that Microsoft’s Xbox Live Arcade and Sony’s Playstation Network have been growing in size and stature over the past 12 months. 360 owners can now enjoy retro hits such as Rez, Metal Slug 3, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Ikaruga, Streets of Rage 2 (with online co-op), Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and many others. The recent rumour that Microsoft is keen to port Treasure’s sublime Radiant Silvergun would elevate Xbox Live Arcade to a whole new level of brilliance.
Sony’s Playstation Network has taken longer to become established but with a steady flow of decent PSOne titles (coupled with the likes of arcade-perfect conversions of games like Konami’s riotous GTi Club), the service is getting better all the time.
So where does that leave the Virtual Console?
While you cannot argue with the quality of some of Nintendo’s first party games, when placed alongside the likes of Ikaruga and Rez the output of the Virtual Console ends up looking almost too retro (if that’s possible). Clearly this is open to personal opinion – many fans of vintage gaming wouldn’t see a game like Rez as being ‘true retro’ - but we highly doubt that many Wii owners would be against the idea of seeing games from the back catalogue of machines like the Dreamcast, Playstation and Saturn making an appearance in the future. Whether or not this is possible given the crippling internal storage issue (another thing that Nintendo has yet to successfully address) is another matter entirely, but it’s clear that Nintendo needs to do something to keep up with the competition.
Of course, all this negativity could be for nothing – there’s still plenty of awesome Megadrive/Genesis, SNES, NES, Neo-Geo and N64 games out there that have yet to be ported to the service and Nintendo may well surprise us in 2009. We just hope that the Virtual Console doesn’t get pushed to the back of the company’s consciousness, and that other publishers don’t get cold feet in the same way that Hudson seemed to have done.
What are your thoughts on this subject? As always, feel free to let rip in the comments section, conveniently found below.
Comments 192
i just wish nintendo would stop messin with us and give us a sign that the other classic games they can come out with they will come out with so true about the wiiware for the exception of a few games it hasnt been to great
I never knew I was missing Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix till you mentioned it, now i'm angry.
I like how Yoshi represents the VC in the picture. And I'm going to have to get an X-B360 or PS3 just to play Street Fighter IV and Super Street Fighter II HD Remix.
I agree.
For me, the great Virtual Console titles are much more attractive than WiiWare titles. Then, I think that Nintendo needs to come back to give more attention to your main channel of downloads.
Yes excellent point. I just wish Nintendo could read this article. What makes fans so upset is that many of us gamers (myself included) were drawn to buying a Wii because of the allure of classic gaming. Now it seems like the Virtual Console is an afterthought (sorta like what Sega did with the 32x). This is truly unfair to the VC fanbase. I for one do not want to wait 10 months or 10 years to play Castlevania 3, Clayfighter, Super Monaco, Outrun etc. I am just saying its disappointing, and if you cater to your fanbase it helps your reputation.
But isn't Nintendo just being a business after all? Promising the customer of a service beyond their wildest dreams then failing to deliver everything exactly what the customer wants? Its not fair to us but really, isn't that just what advertising actually is?
Very good point BassX0
I recently saw on IGN's retro site a headline that said" Apple IIe to Virtual Console, Sorta." Even though the article was about a fan made emulator, my first impression was "Why"? I mean why add another system when Nintendo has barely supported the N64, SMS, Neo Geo and now has the TG-16 dropped. I think its a shame
It's been evident to me for a while that the VC has failed to become the gaming nirvana we all hoped it was when first announced.
Warning signs went out early to PAL gamers with the slapdash nature of early releases that didn't correct the age old border/60hz issue.
Compare this with a service like Live Arcade where all games not only run in 60hz but have added features and modes (at the same price) and you can see how in a bizarre role reversal Nintendo has become the lazy bang it out and make money company with Microsoft bizarrely emerging as the champion of gamers!
The second killer blow came when it became apparent that releases were going to be limited by a variety of licensing issues. This killed the dream some of us had of ebaying our collection of dusty carts and building up a virtual library.
Finally Nitendo's storage solution problem and utter lack of ability to deal with it when a fix would have been so simple as letting us run games of SD cards was the killer blow. What's the point in having a virtual library if it takes longer to get the game transferred and running than it does to hook up your snes and put a cart in?
Even if HD remix and REZ did come out on the Wii and I didnt own a 360 I wouldnt buy them on Wii becasue Id have nowhere to put them.
Nintendo has essentially returned us to an age of waiting for a game to load and, all sense of irony aside, this isn't meant to be the C64.
I've given up on it to be honest. I'm getting my SNES modded to run 60hz and multiregion and that will do for me.
Thanks for trying Nintendo but you've failed miserably.
I don't buy that many VC or WiiWare games and I think there are lots more people like me out there (just not in here ) ... For people like me one good game on VC and WiiWare every couple of months is sufficient. I guess what i'm trying to say here is that hardcore retrogamers are a small portion of wii-owners, Nintendo makes more on retail products and it's hard to please everyone. So i can understand the current situation. But it most blow for you hardcore gaming types
Even with how much I love the Virtual Console service I have to agree that Nintendo has really failed to fully realize its potential, at least so far. We went from counting on three games a week, more often than not one or more of which were solid releases, to picking at the bones of a once great service, every week.
I don't, however, think we should be pushing the panic button just yet. While the Virtual Console is a mere shadow of it's former self right now, I do believe we still have plenty of releases to get excited about that we don't yet know of. Not that I'm making excuses for Nintendo because, there isn't any good enough for what's happening with the service right now, but I do think we should be a bit more patient with it. I will only worry when Nintendo starts releasing nothing some weeks. In that case, yeah, we're pretty much screwed.
Oh no, not another article with dozens comments full of complaints =(.
@ "Street Figher II HD Remix - never coming to the VC!":
Of course not. It was never planned to ad extra stuff to Virtual Console games, this is the function of WiiWare.
@ Coming Soon list: Does every title, before released in the USA or Europe, really appear on that list?
when Nintendo has barely supported the N64, SMS, Neo Geo
I dont really think Nintendo should be faulted for the lack of SMS and Neo Geo support.
This 1 game a week crap is total garbage. Where the hell is Castlevania 3? Europe has had it since October and yet the U.S. still hasn't seen it yet.
As for Rondo of Bloods chances of coming to the service without Hudson's support;
http://www.wiiware-world.com/news/2008/11/hudson_interview_alien_crush_returns
Last question in an interview that YOU GUYS conducted. Seriously get your facts in order before claiming the world is going to end. Sheesh!
Judging from how many already released VC games there are that have received a 5-star rating from this site, there is not much to complain about. There are plenty of good games already available, you just shouldn't expect a new blockbuster title every week.
That Yoshi picture reminds me of that other picture that had Yoshi almost knocking a Yoshi Baby off a building.
Anyways, I AM looking forward to Sega Saturn and Dreamcast games in Virtual Console. Then again, I am also looking forward to 32X and CD just to complete. (After all, we did not get Knuckles Chaotix in Sonic Gems Collection!) Also I REALLY-REALLY want GB/GBC games in Virtual console! (Why not?) Also, I actually want Virtual Boy, since that counts as a Nintendo Console, right? In all, I want all of the retro titles from Nintendo, Sega, and Hudson if only just for completion! (Then again, NinEgSon may be saving those for until after all of the high-profile games of their previous systems have been depleted, or maybe earlier!)
But still, I am curious as to the lack of N64 and NeoGeo games...
Rapadash6 - that interview was conducted before the rumours started to circulate. We've since contacted Hudson again and they are saying that WiiWare is now their key focus. Although Konami will obviously have some part to play with the possible launch of Rondo, Hudson have so far published ALL of the VC's PC Engine/TG-16 games, and we imagine they would be a vital cog in the process of getting Rondo on the service.
Personally, there are only two retro games I'm waiting for. I'd love to see a few others, but I wouldn't care much one way or the other.
The fact is, Nintendo has released a ton of games already. In fact, 72 of the games released so far have been rated 5 out of 5 stars by this site. SEVENTY-TWO. I highly doubt there is a 360 or PSN site out there that is half as pleased with its respective catalog of games. Nintendo really came out swinging right from the start.
But there is only a finite supply of retro games; you can't make more. Sure, there are some conspicuous absences, but many of these will turn up eventually. They have to save some for the future. As much as I dislike not having a choice, the new model of one VC game and one or two WW games does work.
Now, if they added new systems, obviously that would increase the amount of good games awaiting us, but the storage issue is a big one. I'm thinking we'll see all the pre-64 classics by the time the Wii is done with, and their next system will bring out some better storage capabilities which they'll use to better support the 64 and systems from that generation.
I have a PSN and I own quite a few games, but not nearly as many as on Wii. I'm not that tempted to get a 360, but I'll get one if Radiant Silvergun comes out. Microsoft has a much worse problem with shovelware than WW does.
I think the Virtual Console has not lived up to expectations, particularly in the last year, and especially in terms of public image. There's very little in the way of consistent communication with the audience, the release schedule is erratic, incomplete, and occasionally undermined by Nintendo themselves for no good reason. Frankly, the service is amateurish.
That said, it's easy to fix. Release games on a more regular schedule and in more consistent numbers. Be more forthcoming with what is to be released. Actually release the titles that are advertised, and don't change things round at the last minute. With a more professional attitude, the Virtual Console could better live up to its reputation.
WiiWare is a different question. It's quite obvious that the Wii is slipping behind the other machines in this regard, particularly in losing out on the big names, and Nintendo need to make sure that they don't lose out here. Seeing Nintendo themselves supporting the service would be good; finishing StarFox 2 and releasing it to WiiWare, for example. However, it's easy to forget that WiiWare is a very young service; it's not even a year old. While it could have been a more impressive first six months, there is still plenty of time for Nintendo to impress.
It's really a shame that the Virtual Console service is being pushed into the shadows as each year passes by. We've received some great titles in 2008 but now the Virtual Console seemed better in idea than a reality. Hudson is now concentrating on WiiWare games instead of TG-16 and you can't really blame them. When's the last timem, aside from Ys I & II, have you seen anything TG-16 related in the VC Popular Titles category? Neo Geo also is releasing compilations of their franchises of yesteryear on the cheap since none of Neo Geo's games are selling well on the VC. Licensed games (like Capcom games from Disney franchises) would've help the service but that's not going to happen.
Now only that but Nintendo is also to blame, constantly "promising" titles on select dates only to release a different set of VC titles (Hudson felt that numerous times). I just hoping Sega will introduce some Sega CD games before the VC fades away.
I totally agree. Where the hell is Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong 64, Majora's Mask, Kirby Super Star, Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound?
@Adam
Microsoft has a much worse problem with shovelware than Wiiware? Um, how do you figure? Both Xbox Live Arcade and Wiiware have shovelware, but Wiiware is winning the crap race so far. Nintendo (hopefully) will reign in the amount of dubious quality games allowed to be released on Wiiware.
I am really starting to hate WiiWare, there are only a few really good games on it, and I would give them up to have more strong titles come out for the VC.
Where the hell is Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong 64, Majora's Mask, Kirby Super Star, Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound?
In that order...
Rumored problems about emulating the FX Chip.
Rumored problems about emulating the Expansion Pak
Rumored problems about emulating the Expansion Pak
On the DS.
On the DS.
Coming sometime whenever Nintendo feels like it.
I'm Happy with the VC but I believe if we just got games that we wanted like Yoshi Island, Mario Kart, Mario All Stars, Pilot wings and Majoras Mask then VC could go down hill because every one would just buy all their favourite games. Yes, that's what the VC is and should be about but I also think it caters for people who missed out on these classic games like myself I didn't buy a N64 because I didn't consider the games to be worth while but after playing Mario 64 and Zelda I quickly changed my mind and that is that I missed out and I don't want to miss out again. I also think EA (love them or hate them) should contribute to the VC with games like Ice hockey, Desert strike and Road rash and many other classic games that made EA who they are today. Do people down load games because they the games were missing from their youth or do they down load them just to try them out? I'm a bit of both, it's easier to download that favourite game some times than it is to dust off the console and set-up. I'm not a fan of Wii-Ware and I'd rather support the VC, I think it will survive as long as the Wii does, probably for another 2 to 3 years.
@Damo
Point taken BUT, this is all based on rumors to begin with, rumors that I'm pretty sure started on this very site, and I have yet to see any concrete evidence that Hudson has dropped support for Virtual Console PERMINENTLY. Unless they said that in those exact words, which according to what you guys have said, they didn't, I see no reason to worry. Hudson has taken huge breaks before, so it's not like this release gap is abnormal or anything.
Also, if they are still supporting it in Japan, why exactly would they not do so in other territories, especially when the games were doing well enough? It just doesn't make sense. As a loyal reader of the site, and sinse you guys are so insistant that you've heard this information right from the horses mouth, I request that you arrange another interview with Hudson and get the truth, instead of just saying "that's what we heard". There is not enough information there to start getting people upset, as you've already done.
I mean no disrespect but I've only heard this rumor from this site and I think as such you are responsible to do whatever leg work is neccessary to find out for sure and provide proof, rather than just jumping to conclusions. You owe your readers that much at least, imo. I'll gladly eat my socks if you're right but I would very much like to know the truth once and for all as I am sure would the rest of your readers.
Aardvark Soup: "Judging from how many already released VC games there are that have received a 5-star rating from this site, there is not much to complain about. There are plenty of good games already available, you just shouldn't expect a new blockbuster title every week."
Adam: "The fact is, Nintendo has released a ton of games already. In fact, 72 of the games released so far have been rated 5 out of 5 stars by this site. SEVENTY-TWO. I highly doubt there is a 360 or PSN site out there that is half as pleased with its respective catalog of games. Nintendo really came out swinging right from the start."
I absolutely agree with these statements.
some truly amazing slices of retro-related brilliance. Zelda, Phantasy Star, Street Fighter, Alex Kidd
Alex Kidd has bearly started if you ask me. We've had the career ruining Megadrive title and one of the Master System games. Of course the problem is a few of the Master System Alex Kidd games were modifications of games that SEGA made but couldn't release out of Japan due to liscene issues. The Japanese arm of SEGA might have forgotten these titles exist
Seeing Nintendo themselves supporting the service would be good; finishing StarFox 2 and releasing it to WiiWare, for example
Thing is Nintendo didn't develop any Starfox game except the N64 one (the SNES ones you can thank Argonaut who are now bankcrupt ) and I have a feeling its source code won't help a lot leaving us with a ground-up rebulid...they could do that or they you-know could make a new Star Fox game. Besides nearly all of the ideas seen in Starfox 2 mysteriously appeared in Starfox 64 and Star Fox Command. The only one not accounted for is the transforming ships
I totally agree. Where the hell is Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong 64, Majora's Mask, Kirby Super Star, Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound?
Okay, lets see I'll list excuses and games which apply:
Emulation issues (RAM, graphics etc...): Donkey Kong 64, Majora's Mask
Emulation issues (cartidge cips): Yoshi's Island
Existing DS versions, killing their sales with a cheaper product is not good business*: Kirby Super Star, Chrono Trigger
That just leaves Earthbound which falls under conspiracy theory...I never did understand why the Mother fanbase see it as a conspiracy theory yet Kirbys Dreamland 3 taking forever from ESRB to release nobody even mentions.
*-There is an off-chance in 3 or so years when these become out of print that they'll hit the Wii Shop. At least I would hope they would...maybe not Chrono Trigger; Square-Enix will find another way to re-print it (they always do ). Also my argument has a huge contradiction. Planet Puzzle League yet Pokemon Puzzle League still came out...Pokemon Puzzle League does do things that Planet Puzzle League doesn't (3D mode) so...
Personally my biggest failing with the Wii Shop is region locking. It serves no purpose other than to aggrivate potential customers. Simply becuase most my other problems are solved by tackling that...price being the biggest one that isn't (Wii Shop is overpriced as hell, solution; customer buys less...) and I can somewhat understand it (retail and WiiWare would sustain massive damage if you could 10 hours of entertainment for 100 points...)
Also, don't forget that Konami OWNS Hudson... so if they really want Rondo of Blood released I bet they could do it.
As for the VC in general, I'd like to ask a few question to all of you complainers who don't like the 1 game a week thing. How many VC games do you own? I myself own around 50 or so and I still have games already in the catalog I'm saving up points for, so I'm okay with the slowdown. Maybe while this slowdown is going on you should look back through the massive catalog and play some games you may have missed. I think it may have been Nintendo's plan to start out the VC going strong and get it a decent sized library and then introduce WiiWare.
Also who wants to download more than one game per week? I know I don't. I hate it when two games I'm wanting both come out and then I have to decide. So c'mon people. If VC was releasing 5 games a week I'm sure you same people would be complaining that they're releasing too many games!
I've noticed this slowing trend on the Virtual Console for some time and it is a bit worrisome. There are still so many great titles for the VC console still available for release, yet we're seeing Nintendo almost "ween" VC gamers off the titles slowly but surely.
Now that Hudson has basically bailed on the VC in all regions but Japan, it's looking like I made a good decision to hang onto my PC Engine console after all. And I'm finding myself spending more and more time with my Xbox 360 and Xbox Live Arcade which is odd considering how I used to spend 10 times as much time on my Wii console.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things go this year, but given the push for WiiWare, not to mention the focus on the upcoming DSi system and it's DLC, it's not looking too good for the VC as we know it.
@ Fox
I meant VC+WW, my bad. Obviously from my comments about all the highly rated games here I meant to be talking about both "platforms" on Wii.
Obviously, there are still a lot of quality games that could be released, but that said, we've got it better than the competing systems easily if you are into retro gaming.
There are very few PSClassics on the PSN, which is disappointing, though they at least have the only one that matters... Symphony of the Night.
That said, I do think 360 has many more worthless games than WiiWare... if only because WiiWare is so young.
While I don't like the 1 game updates either, I think a lot of us are starting to take the VC for granted. Of course it is not without it's share of problems. I do wish Nintendo would tell us what games are going to come out every month like they do in Japan. But then again I might miss being surprised every Monday. I'm not sure about EU, but with the exception of Wiiware launch week, we have gotten at least 1 VC game every week since launch, and that's pretty impressive. I know that all of the complainers could all find a game on the VC they haven't played yet and would enjoy.
Either they are trying to ween gamers off the VC (which will not work mind you) or they are trying to spread the VC releases out till the end of the millenium.
Oh I heard from Nintendo that Yoshi's Island is confirmed for release in 2050.
i curse wiiware, honestly. it has done FAR MORE bad than good. sure you could argue that there are some good titles, but seriously, we all know what its done to our flow of VC games. Year one the average games released per monday was 3. Now, its only 1. I remember a year or two ago, back when i was in high school, if a monday VC realease wasnt a good one, it was like, a garentee that the next was going to be great. and back when n64 games came out just about once a month.
and one last thing...where in the world is sonic&knuckles???
Sonic & Knuckles would be hard to emulate as you'd have to offer the backwards compatability that came with it on Sonic 2 & Sonic 3.
oh and one more thing, when i hear rumors that nintendo hasnt released majora's mask or donkey kong 64 on VC because of its expansion pack, it just discusts me. the nintendo 64 was 2 generations ago, ten years. If nintendo cant emulate a game they made 10 years ago, i am deeply sorry, but i have to defect to ps3 or 360 who seem to have to problem doing whatever the hell they want.
moral of the story, the expansion pack increased the system's RAM by 4MB. i just simply cant not accept the fact that ten years later they just "CANT" do it. no i dont buy that at all
SmaMan: "How many VC games do you own?"
That is pretty much a team effort between me and my two brothers. In all, we bought 11, if I did not miss any.
(Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario 64
Mario Kart
Paper Mario
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Kirby's Adventure
SimCity
Bio Miracle Bokkutte Upa
Neutopia
Phantasy Star 3)
@Viral
sonic&knuckles would be really easy to emulate, make the orginal game, then later on release sonic 2&knuckles and sonic 3&knuckles for 800 points each. i think that is what is taking them so long, deciding on if they should make available the add on features of 2 and 3 for free like it would have been if you actually bought the sega genesis games. but hell, ill just buy the two addon 2&3 knuckles games, im just getting impatient cuz its been so long. but as far as difficulty emulating? no there really shouldnt be any considering all the compliations its been on
The only game I really want on VC that Hudson may deprive us of Is Rondo of blood. I'm confused though. Who has more of a say in the matter, Konami or Hudson? It's just not right that Japan got it but they might screw us on the deal. They didn't want to give it to us years ago and now once again we might not be getting it this time either. I hope somebody with the authority will do whatever it takes to get Rondo on the American and European VC.
@hero10x (post 36)
Saying they can't emulate it doesn't mean it is because the Wii isn't powerful enough. The expansion pack just might unleash all sorts of programming nightmares for an emulator.
I hate the fact that we now have a 2 week gap between VC releases! So basically we have half the amount of VC games coming out and we have to wait twice as long to get them. All because of WiiWare.
I think what Nintedo is doing is sacrificing the VC to give a leg up to WiiWare and I understand why they're doing it, eventually they're going to run out of classic retro games to release and need high quality original titles to take up the mantle.
But from a personal point of few, I would rather Nintendo ditched WiiWare and brokered deals with other games developers to release their back catalogues instead, to boost the VC (like EA for example). Though I guess for the future of downloadable gaming its better that they invest there efforts in WiiWare, even though, at the moment it offers very little in terms of value or quality.
BTW excellant article and thanks for raising the issue.
The hard thing with Sonic and Knuckles is distributing the locked-on games in a fair manner and Sonic 3 and Knuckles detecting Sonic 3 saves in the correct manner.
A method I can see working is you buy Sonic and Knuckles and you also have Sonic 2. The Wii then sends a download ticket to Sonic 2 & knuckles. The problem is this requires a system to be in place that will check your Wii Shop account to see what you own and then act accordingly.
Personally, I would prefer some kind of personalised discount system based on what you already own in your account.
then later on release sonic 2&knuckles and sonic 3&knuckles for 800 points each
That'll please the consumers to no end...plus why would I want to buy either Sonic 3 or Sonic and Knuckles if I can get them both for 800 points.
As far everyone pinning the blame on WiiWare. I say that WiiWare coincided with downturn in the volume of Virtual Console releases but is not the contributor. You may not remmeber how many lame weeks there were before WiiWare but there were a fair ammount.
The facts are simple. Megadrive is a dead end, NES is a dead end, TG-16 is a dead end, Neo-Geo is taking forever for some reason and N64 has bearly any games so isn't a "new hope". Why isn't it so bad in Japan? This thing called 3rd party publishers semm to give a poop about the service while over here while we've seen a couple of western 3rd party publishers caring (Factor 5 and Shiny Entertainment...thats 10 games at most, imagine: 10 weeks of two games till we're back to 1 a week). Then there is the fact Japan has zero game weeks...
There is not a lot left to come out and for some reason Nintendo don't want to pressurise 3rd parties into caring about the service, spending the time doing reaserch into older games or actually releasing import games (they wouldn't need to do this if they had heared of this wonderful thing invented in the year ???? called "region free")
-Sad thing is Nintendo are the ones that invented region locking (to prevent the NES and their control of the release dates being completely ruined by Famicom games).
The expansion pack just might unleash all sorts of programming nightmares for an emulator.
It does simply due to the fact there are more effects in the game and that. Donkey Kong 64 was Rareware who really pushed the system beyond its limits and as for Majora's Mask. Look to Zelda Collectors Edition. Black Great Fairys Sword, missing lighting effects, messed up sound and constant crashing (though I think these last two were caused by parts of the game having to be streamed directly off the disc).
I never had big expectations on VC, for me it was obvious since the beginning that only some of those great titles from the past would make it through all the licence and emulation issues, honestly the service came to be better than I expected, but then the "casual DL service" AKA Wiiware, in which Nintendo sees more profits, arrived, does that downgraded the VC?, hell yes, I knew that and now is just as I thought it would be, we get one game a week, fine, if it's a lame game, fine, I just won't buy it, if it's one of those gems from the past, great; VC can't disappoint me. Still, as I've read on many many posts many people really hoped for a definitive virtual library to come, some, I read, even sold their games, and what they got, a not very professional, slow pase service, I can't blame some of you to be angry.
Now, is the XBLA or PSN better than Wiiware that I can't know, it seems more like a matter of taste. As for all those great games you all are talking about, I really hope they make it to the VC soon.
As Corbie mentioned, with all those new things Nintendo is bringing, this is gonna be a hard year for VC and VC fans. Me, I expect nothing and hope for the best.
Yeah Nintendo should let us download games from Japan if we want to. They could even charge us the standard import fee. But I imagine there is probably some sort of copyright issues preventing this.
@Rapadash6 - We've told you what Hudson told us. We're pressed them for some kind of "official statement" to share with the world but for reasons of their own they are reluctant to do this.
It's not to say there won't ever be another TG16 game on the VC, but for now their intention is to focus on WiiWare rather than VC. There's not much more to say than that really. You either trust what we are telling you or you don't.
I am tempted or however it is spelled to get a Japanese Wii since they know what they are receiving unlike NOA who likes to suprise it's fans.
Because of this i have grown to hate suprises.Japanese gamers even get a release list of games coming each month while USA is left guessing and guess what? That's unfair.NOA should give us a release list each month like Japan.They get to talk about the VC games before they come out while we have to wait.If we get a release list and a game on that list does not come out fine just issue a press release saying what happened and say sorry and move on.
Personally it doesn't bother me. I'm a college student and I could never afford to buy all the great VC games already out. Growing up, I had a Genesis and so did all of my friends and I never got to play the SNES much at all, so just with that system I'm swamped with games to download. What is already out is more than enough to satisfy me. In a way, I'm relieved that the VC has slowed to a trickle.
I really hope the two TG16 games we're missing here in Europe get released eventually just so we're even with the Americans in terms of TG16 games at least.
my catalog:Wii-5,VC-20.I am happy!
The sad thing is that I could certainly imagine more companies backing out of Virtual Console support. Why bother if Nintendo's going to potentially take months to make them available even after they're completely ready to go?
Comment #29, SmaMan:
"As for the VC in general, I'd like to ask a few question to all of you complainers who don't like the 1 game a week thing. How many VC games do you own?"
68.
"Maybe while this slowdown is going on you should look back through the massive catalog and play some games you may have missed."
I haven't missed anything. If I'm remotely interested in something, I buy it.
"Also who wants to download more than one game per week? I know I don't. I hate it when two games I'm wanting both come out and then I have to decide."
If I want two games, I don't choose; I just buy both. (Or all three, in the case of that glorious May 21st of 2007.) Virtual Console games range from 10% to 20% the price of a retail game; buying two of them at once isn't going to empty my wallet. The only concern is having enough Wii Points, but I almost always have some remaining in advance--and if I don't, I'll just buy more with debit. (The one really smart move Nintendo made with online this gen: NOT tying your financial information to the system like Microsoft.)
"So c'mon people. If VC was releasing 5 games a week I'm sure you same people would be complaining that they're releasing too many games!"
No I wouldn't, since there are at least 80 more VC games that could be released that I'd buy. Just from NES alone I'd buy Adventures of Lolo 3, Blaster Master, Bubble Bobble Part 2, Castlevania III (I'm in North America), Crystalis, Fire 'N' Ice, Gargoyle's Quest II, Mega Man 4, Mega Man 5, Mega Man 6, and Terra Cresta, never mind what Genesis and SNES could offer me. Tons of untapped potential for retro fans and 2D fans like me.
@Dazza
I find your response somewhat reassuring because I think Hudson doesn't want to make an official statement exactly because they do plan to continue support for the VC. It's just at the moment they are focusing on WiiWare and they don't want people to jump to crazy conclusions, which, unfortunately, seems to have been done here. Also they've done this before in 08 when the US saw a huge gap where there were no releases, between Feb and July. All the while Japan was still getting releases in that time, as well as imports being brought to Europe in May. I fully expect to see a similar thing happen this year with TG-16 releases, and I also expect Rondo of Blood to be among them.
I'd also like to appologize if I seem blunt in my responses. I do trust you guys and I'm sure Hudson told you exactly what you said they did but I just don't think it was as dire of a statement as you guys, this article and some of the readers on this site make it out to be.
FINALLY! I had to read through 49 posts before getting to Jiggy37 with the following quote:
"The sad thing is that I could certainly imagine more companies backing out of Virtual Console support. Why bother if Nintendo's going to potentially take months to make them available even after they're completely ready to go?"
THIS is the #1 problem with the VC. Nintendo farted around not releasing games for months on end and not communicating with the publishers in that time, and 3rd parties got fed up and quit. Now there are only a few companies left, and not surprisingly, they're relatively big companies that won't go broke if they have to wait for their VC game to release.
I get the impression that NoJ is more with their publishers (just like they are with the customers), so 3rd parties don't mind working with them so much. But 3rd parties that still had plenty of great games to release slowly started dropping away as it became more and more obvious that Nintendo didn't give a rodent's rear end about them. This hit the all-time high with the infamous August 4, 2008 NoA release.
Basically, Nintendo is STILL living up to the "doesn't play well with others" label they received YEARS ago for screwing over their third parties. Unless they fix this problem (which ain't bloody likely), VC is screwed.
That said, they DID finally release a semi-anticipated SNES game this week; at least it's big-name Nintendo for a change. We'll have to just wait and see what happens for now, but I fear that Nintendo may have scared Squenix off right after they started showing real interest in VC.
I've always enjoyed the VC over WiiWare. They need to bring back two vc game weeks and can stick with one WiiWare game a week. As of right now WiiWare's future does not look good with only four interesting games on my list.
No
@Jiggy37
Now you my friend, have justification to your complaints. Lucky people like you that have money are able to get any and every game they want. It's just these other people that only have 10 or 11 games, want many games that are already in the catalog, yet still complain that Nintendo hasn't been releasing enough games for them that bug me.
I do remember another story a few months ago where WiiWare publishers were talking about how hard it is to work with Nintendo's publising policies. If it's hard there, on a platform that the give a dang about, imagine how hard it must be for VC publishers... can't exactly blame them for wanting to pull out. It seems that NoA needs to go back to business school and retake a few classes because right now, they seem to be failing.
I think the only thing we can do is stop buying WiiWare games, not that there are that many that we want to buy. If we stop buying them, then maybe Nintendo will focus more on the VC. If anyone else has any better ideas, my ears are open.
@SmaMan: Well, you have to consider things like "whim." Yes, there are a number of games available on VC I'll want to buy sooner or later. But why buy them now if they aren't what I want to play NOW (especially with nowhere to store them)? I suppose that starts sounding a bit greedy again, but really...if I have a hankering for some Soul Blazer, do you think any number of games on VC now is going to fill that gap? It won't.
And if a certain game leapt to someone's mind for VC release when the VC was first announced but STILL isn't available (as is the case with me and Soul Blazer, along with a good number of other classic games), we certainly do have justification for complaining. When the VC was announced, Nintendo made it sound like all our favorite games would be available for download, like a big title dump all at once. The reality SUCKS!
Is Genesis Super Street Fighter II actually rated? Its not on the coming soon list here.
Meh, I don't have much of a problem with how things are at the moment. A lot of cool games came out this year, many of which I still gotta get, not to mention all the great games that came out last year. Heck, these slow releases are just giving me some time to catch up! Really, I just want to see some more Sega Genesis games that aren't on collections, more Master System games that aren't Sonic or Wonder Boy games, more Neo Geo games...period, and maybe some more TG-16 and NES games. More imports would also be appreciated, and I personally would like to see some more Action/RPGs, especially ones that were published by SNK or ENIX. And I definitely would like to see some more shooters and fighting games.
Okay, maybe I'm a little disappointed, but not by much. Here's hoping for that 2009 will kick 2008's a**! Woot!!!
At first I loved the virtual console but now it just makes me sad.
See?
The only retro games I'm waiting for are from non-nintendo systems or third party companies. My feeling is that these companies should just ignore the "little N" and release their titles on other download services or on collection discs for the 360 and PS3 like Sega is doing with their Ultimate Genesis Collection.
Sonic 2 is great but Sonic 2 with voice chat, online co-op, leaderboards and achievement points is even better. HD option is nice too.
Gamers want a gaming community - take this website as clear evidence of that - and Nintendo obviously couldn't care less what gamers want. They'll just give us what they want: Shaky controllers with half-finished motion sensitivity technology that will require you to purchase an add-on to make it work like we were all lead to believe it would.
Here's a twist on an old slogan with a message that is as true today as it was years ago:
"Xbox does what Nintendon't" Nintendo most definitely don't.
(I'd have included the PS3 in that slogan but the PS3 is for ignorant yuppies and people who eat babies.)
Maybe I'm just feeling especially jaded today...
@58. Bass X0
Genesis Super Street Fighter II is esrb rated. It is on the 2nd page on the Wii platform search.
Back on the Sonic & Knuckles topic:
Sonic & Knuckles could be released for 800 Wii Points and if you bought the Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 downloads, they could offer to give you the expansion as part of the Sonic & Knuckles game for FREE like they should, or they could make Sonic & Knuckles cost you more than normal like they seem to do with games that don't really need it.
As for Jiggy37, you're spot on. But I think that Adventures of Lolo 3 can wait til I finish 2.
Is the Virtual Console on the Slide?
Well, unfortunately, yes. Or, at least that's how it seems. Let's be honest here. The content of the Wii Shop Channel is turning. NOA (and i guess NOE-I don't pay too much attention to European releases) is focusing on WiiWare. And as above states, some people don't like WiiWare games. I'm one of them. I really don't like WiiWare. I've downloaded 4 games from the service. And all of them I play for about 3 days and I'm done. So I've stopped buying WiiWare games. I have 1500 points remaining and I don't see anything else worth buying. And since this one-game-per-week streak, I'll never get anything worth buying. I thrilled that Super Smash Bros. is coming soon but think about it. Look at the coming soon list. Two other N64 titles have been there for at least a year. In that case, SSB may never come out.
In the end, Nintendo SHOULD focus more on the Virtual Console. 2007 was a good year. I'm hoping for another one like it but I think 2009 will be even worse than '08.
I think the VC not done for, but it won't be great. Games will still come, just not that often or anything. Focus is turning towards WiiWare now. I would thnk Nintendo games will still come to the VC, but not so sure about other companies.
Interesting article though.
why dont they release MARIO PARTY?
i had no idea that street fighter even existed. ha! looked cool.
You never know when Wii Ware reaches 274 games Nintendo may scale back its releases and start to focus on the VC again. It so hard to say unless somebody was actually in Nintendo's board room to tell us.
I recently got a Nintendo 64 for Christmas. I was going to buy one myself because I wanted some of the old games, which I knew would take a long time to be released on the VC. The system only cost $25. So if people want some of the older games and don't want to wait, just buy the older system at the local pawn shop or on the internet. If you just wanted one specific game for a certain system then my idea would be a bad one.
Ahh... one of the several reasons why I got a 360 to accompany my Wii. And every legacy Nintendo console minus VB.
I saw this talking point topic and thought uh oh. Bring on the complainers, but everyones comments have made for very interesting reading.
I was very much hoping for rondo of blood, but it was interesting to note that in that interview all the guy from hudson said was pretty much that rondo being released depends on konami. I don't know how the companies are structured, but does konami call the shots for hudson - ie has konami told hudson to focus on wiiware? Or does that mean bringing rondo to the vc is entirely in konami's hands? Either way, unless the guy interviewed said more than is in the interview transcript, I don't see that rondo is ruled out for the VC. Besides, once these games are released on the japanese VC pretty much all they need to do is bring in the translators. Import games normally run in 60Hz in PAL regions anyway.
As far as WiiWare is concerned, as well as Wii games, most developers (read anyone other than 2D boy) probably need more time to get their games finalised. Although, like the rest of you, it is VC that interests me more than WiiWare and sadly, the run of quality VC releases is undoubtedly slowing down.
When the Virtual Console service was first released, it would have been hard not to have an impressive release roster, but Nintendo and the third parties have probably released all the easy conversions with a degree of popularity (and no copyright issues). Now they're scraping the bottom of the barrel for easy conversions. Lets be honest it had to slow down eventually, but for most people there are still games to be played and quality wii games lined up for a spring release (in the northern hemisphere anyway)
There are aspects of the Virtual Console that can be improved, but as an avid retro gamer it's been brilliant for me (And bad for my bank account ). We can moan all we want but quite frankly I'm amazed at the number of games on the service. If I had gotten a Wii now I'd be overwhelmed by the number of games I'd want, and heck there's a fair list of stuff I still need to get despite having a Wii since Christmas 2006.
I love how it's gone into niché stuff like Do Re Mi Fantasy in particular. The folks who go "Where is game A/B/C/D!?" always strike me as missing the point to an extent. It's lovely to get reacquainted with old flames again, but why can't you spark new ones too just because you didn't grow up playing them?
Also I don't quite agree with the "Games too retro in comparison" part of the article. Many classic retro games are (For me at least) timeless and easily compare with stuff like Rez. I do really want to play Ikaruga actually
Also I've really gotten into WiiWare as well. There is a lot of tat on there but there's at least ten games worth owning on there tastes pending, and there's a good few classics (World of Goo, Toki Tori, Lost Winds etc.). It's not been a bad year for it.
I am disappointed they don't promote either service more though, it wouldn't surprise me if most Wii owners didn't even know they existed And for goodness sake, I can't cope with the current "storage method" much longer!
In regards to 2009, we'll have to see how that goes. Hudson's message was somewhat bleak, and I can despite what I've said see where the article is coming from. Hopefully the service lives on in the way it's done for the past two years.
Anyway, essay over! I tend to get carried away, forgive me
I think the problem with VC is that Nintendo seems to have no reason or pattern to release these games. Why no Castlevania release when Judgement came out? None of the Sonic titles that haven't been released for Unleashed? Will We see the NES Rygar come out when the Wii version comes out?
That and it seems like Nintendo likes to pick a selection of titles that frankly lack any real value for its price. I don't think anyone ever cared about Urban Champion or China Warrior back when they were originally released. Putting them out again isn't going to make them any better. I understand they can't put SMRPG and Vectorman out every week, but it'd be nice for them for them to put out the games from that time worth remembering.
@bahumut zero
how wont it be great?
having most of the best games ever made on 1 downloadable service is such a great thing
@mad bomber
“Sonic 2 is great but Sonic 2 with voice chat, online co-op, leaderboards, and achievement points would be great”
...are you stupid?
that would ruin Sonic 2 really bad. No one wants to play sonic online, maybe with leaderboards but probably nothing else you said
@carson: I expect (though this is merely an educated guess) that Nintendo doesn't see enough of a difference between the Mario Party games (same as reviewers tend to complain about) to merit putting a Mario Party on VC when they could just sell Mario Party 8 to customers. I have Mario Party 8, but I'd still pay to download earlier games due to different boards and whatnot, but probably a lot of people wouldn't (or at least that's how Nintendo most likely sees it). On top of that, I believe Hudson was involved in the making of those games, which makes things even sticker. Plus, they're N64 games. That automatically lowers the likelihood of release DRASTICALLY.
@MisterSmith: Yeah, I miss the related releases of 2007, with Metroid Month and whatnot. And I've said before that Nintendo very likely DOESN'T want to deliver value for price, as they have this stupid idea in their head that games finished with faster = more games bought. Doesn't really work that way most of the time, but they sure seem to think it does! Also, awesome avatar. Just had to say it.
@shadows262: I believe that the Xbox Live Arcade version of Sonic 2 does have online multiplayer, but I doubt anybody really plays it. Sonic 2 has craptastic multiplayer online OR off, so it doesn't really matter. Still, they added that stuff, along with HD, and DROPPED the price $3 relative to the same game on VC. I think the added value of that was the real point. On a related note, if anybody wants Golden Axe and has a choice of systems to download it on, go with 360. It's actually the far superior arcade version, with better graphics and sound, plus free continues! And it costs less. Just in case anybody didn't know that but can make use of that info.
I can only hope for good games such as Contra, Earthbound, Star Fox, Castlevania 3, and Cave Story to get updated in America in 2009.
@Jazzem- I completely agree with everything you said. I love the virtual console not because I can buy a bunch of games I owned years ago, but because I can download imports and dozens of rare games or games that I never had a chance to play. I love so many Virtual Console games that I own, and I just hope Nintendo can give us some more classics this year. Don't get me wrong; I'm not apologizing for them, but I think people need to consider that there are over 250 games on the service! That's dozens of classics, and plenty of rare games that would go for much more on eBay.
Oh, and by the way, you should really try Ikaruga. I got it on Xbox Live Arcade, and it is really fun. It's one of my first shmups (hard one to start on!), but I love playing it despite it's difficulty.
@stuffgamer1- Thanks. I might get Golden Axe one of these days, so I'll check it out on 360. Although hardware reliability could also swing me to Wii on just about any game available for both. What happens when my 360 craps out after MS stops supporting it? No more games for me.
Okay, the Wii has its fair share of bad qualities: memory, graphics, direction, the list can go on. I'm not going to go into any of them because others have already. What troubles me is the negativity of the article.
Okay, yes, the VC has dwindled considerably and that has caused me great sadness, but still, like the article said, we have received an awesome number of great games this year. They are small in number compared to last year, but alone, they are mighty. No doubt I hope better for 2009, but I'll not keep my hopes up. The VC isn't what we all wanted or expected from Nintendo, but perhaps it was foolish of us to act like that to begin with. We suspected something fishy when we first heard the news, and it ended up happening.
As for WiiWare, I strongly dislike this bashing. While I myself want better from the service, can we really bash it so much in its first year or compare it to other services on other consoles? Yes, it doesn't have HD or the potential for carrying huge file sizes; it sucks, but what can we really do about it?
However, I'd like to argue perhaps XBLA and PSN didn't have exactly a stellar starting year either. If we are to trust IGN, in XBLA's first year, not a single game received a score of 9 or higher. The site also seems to be down momentarily, but if I recall, PSN's initial year was pretty barren of games. If I'm wrong, please tell me, but as of yet, my faith in WiiWare is firm.
Good article though!
It's obvious, to me, that the Wii's downloadable service is hurting because of the Wii's weak hardware capabilities
I believe that the reason Nintendo haven't dumped them all in one go is because of the legal headache. I'd like to see the world's best attorneys, lawyers, whoever deals with this crap, manage to make a deal for every game conceivable to come out on the VC in one big dump. Even without all the games, you'd get a whole stack at once, and wait say two or three months while Nintendo works on licensing issues before you get the next game, then we'd start complaining about that!
@Clayfrd: From your wording, I assume you mean once their next console is released and they retire the 360 (like how the original Xbox was cut the INSTANT the 360 came out)? In that case, you should have nothing to fear, as Microsoft has already stated a better next-system plan than NINTENDO has (and a better way to do it).
On the Xbox 360, you have a Gamertag. Your downloads are linked to that just as much as they are to your console. When you buy the Xbox 720 (or whatever they decide to call it), you'll be able to transfer your Gamertag over to the new system, and your downloads with it. This is because their next system has already been announced (no link, sorry; I just haven't been able to find the dang thing for some reason!) to be FULLY backwards compatible with the Xbox 360 so that you can simply replace your system with the new thing with NO disadvantages.
Compare that to Wii's download service, where we have NO guarantee of ANY kind that their next system will support the downloads from the Wii. Even if it does, there's not a good system in place for the transfer to go smoothly, and it'll probably require contacting Nintendo and having THEM deal with it.
Anyway, if a game is available for both Wii and Xbox 360, it'll almost ALWAYS be better on 360 (imo, anyway, there are some games like Sonic Unleashed where opinion varies). My stated reasons for Golden Axe are rock-solid, though. Cheaper + better = you'd be CRAZY to get it on VC instead of Arcade.
I think a major problem with the Virtual Console is the total sales and charts domination of Mario-Titles and other Nintendo-franchises like Donkey Kong or Zelda.
Other titles don't seem to be received to well by the VC-audience in terms of sales. So why should Sega, Hudson or whoever bother and continue publishing titles that afficionados like us would love to see but which ultimately fail to make an impact in sales figures?
hi dont know if im missing the point here re sonic and knuckles but i have just bought the sonic mega collection for gamecube and a gamcube controller and a 4mb memory card for game cube for 22 quid 2000 wii points is 15 quid so 4000 would be 30 quid sonic 1,2, and 3 are available on vc and they would have cost me 2400 wii points sonic spinball and sonic 3d blast i have never played but they would have cost me another 1600 wii point so that would have been my 4000 points gone and i still would have been 8 pound worse off no gamecube controller and no gamecube memory card so i have spent they 8 quid on a 2nd hand copy of def jam fight for ny (my fave game on ps2 hope gamecube version hasnt been to kiddyfied) plus a copy of metroid prime 2 did i do the right thing or are the vc versions better ..................sorry if this rambling doesnt make sense really hung over at work and given up the fags !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
......................
Nintendo could do something very easily that could make the VC more appealing to people out there who consider it overpriced, and it's exactly the same thing PSN did with PlayStation downloads: make them downloadable to a DS memory expansion pack (like, through the GBA slot) like I've seen pirates already do. That would easily resurrect interest in the VC. Sony's offers that with the PSP without charging anything at all extra for it. I mean, five bucks can get you a PlayStation download on your PS3 AND your PSP at once.
Westerners' attitudes toward "old" or "dated" games can be annoying (compared to the Japanese), to say the least. I'm still severely underwhelmed by "next-gen" to be happy to hear anything about a new batch of consoles now. The entire industry (not counting those game devices like "Pong") isn't even thirty years old, but "oh no, this game reminds me of something that came out TEN WHOLE YEARS AGO". Please.
But really, those who do appreciate old-school have been jerked around so much by Nintendo, it's no surprise to me that Nintendo might be losing interest in a market that (probably) is losing enthusiasm about them. I remember Treasure saying "they could probably release a thousand games tomorrow if they wanted to" on a link someone gave.
I don't think it's "dead." It's still well-worth Nintendo's time to put emulations out for download at some frequency or another, at least with its first-party property.
I do know for certain that Microsoft have less than 80 retro games, while Nintendo have 274, and Microsoft have had XBLA for a longer period than the Wii Shop has been open. If you guys want Nintendo to put prog scan, leaderboards, and all that poo into all the retro titles. Then Nintendo wouldn't have much more than 70 freakin' titles themselves.
Personally I'd prefer if Nintendo went the DLC way in the next console. Where you get the option of downloading the original game the way it was, or downloading those stages/characters into a new iteration. Say, old stages/character in Smash Bros. or Mario Kart. Rather than them remaking it and having it as a full seperate game.
"So why should Sega, Hudson or whoever bother and continue publishing titles that afficionados like us would love to see but which ultimately fail to make an impact in sales figures?"
I guess they should have thought about that before they started promoting the VC service.
but why would they have put out games that they didn't think would sell in favour of games they knew would sell? Why Digital Boxing instead of Rondo of Blood?
I wish I had an answer to that. I would love to try Drac X. But it would not shock me if Wii Ware slows down after a year or two and maybe then we will see a little better balance between the two services. IF you remember Nintendo's goal was to get 200 games out the first year of the VC. We all know they missed that mark by about 10-12 games. (don't think I forgot Nintendo) Wii Ware may be a similar idea. Build up the library around 200 and then slow down the releases.
Yeah, I miss the related releases of 2007, with Metroid Month and whatnot.
Oh yeah Metroid Month. Nintendo might be trying to pin their blame on Metroid Prime 3 not doing as well as they hoped on "those pesky VC releases" rather than the truth of lack of marketing (the Metroid Prime preview channel doesn't count as marketing...I don't think it really got any use since we've seen nothing like that since)
@bass x0: good question, but the point seems to be as well that it doesn't make that big a difference. if you look at the download charts, even top non-nintendo-titles don't fair too well in terms of sales.
Well for me the VC has been fantastic since it first started I have downloaded 60+ titles. It has gotten me into games that I never got the chance to play since I only started gaming during the N64 days. I was always interested in retro gaming but I never liked setting up multiple systems. I even play VC games way more than regular Wii games.
Although I do have to admit I am starting to get a tiny bit worried since there seems to be slowdown in recent weeks with even just 1 game a week for NA which doesn't look to good for Europeans either especially if a game that comes out that will not interest anybody. I also wish something was done about different games been released since they can take far too long to come over here like Secret of Mana and Mario Golf and ST 2 which we are still waiting for. Oh and then there’s the 50hz problem since I can't stand some games with slower music especially Castlevania and Sonic The Hedgehog.
I guess this all proves that different people have different tastes.
(By the way, the clauses in bold are the ones that apply to me.)
By the way, do you not remember that Virtual Console games are CHEAP? Sin + Punishment cost only $12, and World of Goo only $15. That is one of the reasons why I really like Wii Shop.
@ Stuffgamer1 (#80): "On the Xbox 360, you have a Gamertag. Your downloads are linked to that just as much as they are to your console. Their next system has already been announced (no link, sorry; I just haven't been able to find the dang thing for some reason!) Compare that to Wii's download service, where we have NO guarantee of ANY kind that their next system will support the downloads from the Wii."
On Wii your games are linked to your 'Club Nintendo Account'.
And no, Microsoft didn't announced the 720. That's why you can't find the news .
@ SlyRax (#81): "So why should Sega, Hudson or whoever bother and continue publishing titles that afficionados like us would love to see but which ultimately fail to make an impact in sales figures?"
Maybe because they earn money?
@ Starwolf_UK:
Star Fox 2 programmer Dylan Cuthbert said that the game was fully completed, so it shouldn't be a big problem to release it.
At first I was interested in the VC because it let me go back and check out the games I missed along my own console journey, (which was Master System > Mega Drive > N64 > PS2 > Wii).
But now I've reached the point where I'm more interested in VC releases than retail releases (except the obvious Mario and Zeldas etc.) Thats because I've realised that 10 year-old AAA games are much better than the average releases today. I don't know what that tells you about the modern game industry other than graphics aren't everything and games were more fun in the past.
Bottom line is that the VC is essential for gamers like me who have to fill there time between the Nintendo masterpieces and If the VC is allowed to dry I'm gonna be mighty angry!!!
Eh I completely lost interest in the VC/WW stuff once the PSN started picking up. The WiiWare platform is pretty bad to develop on given the storage limitations. WiiWare will never see games like Super Stardust HD, PAIN, Lumines Supernova and Everyday Shooter. If only the Wii had a hard drive, then WW might have more decent titles.
@DarkAkatosh. I don't particulary want to buy three games consoles. Even with the limitations of the hard drive its still better then PS3 or Xbox360.
The VC is going downhill for sure, WiiWare seems to be the main reason for it but I think Nintendo are concentrating on the casual gamer crowd with Wii Sports Resort and MotionPlus being released soon.
If Nintendo did something totally out of the blue and released 4 VC games or a N64 game it might restore hope for some of the fans. They need to remember the people that bought the consoles from the beginning and that have stayed loyal since.
I'm glad I held on to my N64 and have enjoyed some great games that are be unlikely to be released on the VC. The VC is a great idea but needs some changes to improve it. The storage problem looks like the major issue and should have been realised when WiiWare was announced.
I wonder if the already available catalogue of games still possibly available (All those games we always whine about) will be used to eke out the remaining service days of the VC, meanwhile Nintendo releases something else for us to buy?
Could I just ask... Should Nintendo release Super Mario All Stars for the VC? I know we've got the NES versions but this game scored so highly in reviews back in 1993...
If So when? and how much?. I'd really like some feedback on this guys!! Any one? I'd Pay 1000 Points for this....
@Pj--I'd happily pay 1500 Wii Points for Super Mario All Stars. I would probably even pay 2000 points for it. I love the old games with the SNES graphics.
Yeah I would pay 1500-2000 for Super Mario Allstars. I think it will happen one of these years. Easily worth over a 1000 points
I have no problem with Nintendo running out of game, but they should finally release titles we all wait for (and were already announced!) and some new translated Hanabi Games like S&P would be nice e.g.: Wrecking Crew '98
I know we can only dream of fully translated FE titles apart from numerous remakes (FE:SD didn't even include FE3 book 2!)
Mario All-Stars may possibly be a launch title for Wii 2's VC service. Assuming Nintendo don't abandon the idea of VC by then, which in reality would be a stupid idea.
Might be when we FINALLY get to see those FX Chip games too....
EDIT: I also wonder if they'll make Gamecube games downloadable on the next Wii, assuming they put a hard drive in it.
Yeah I would pay 1500-2000 for Super Mario Allstars. I think it will happen one of these years. Easily worth over a 1000 points
No. I think it should cost 2900 Points. Download the four NES games first then be allowed to download Super Mario All Stars for 800 points as an "upgrade". Most of us should have all four NES games anyway. Is that the best way to do it or will there be much bitching if they did this?
@Bass--I like the upgrade idea. I have the 4 NES games of course, I am just waiting for All-Stars. I am not holding my breath, however.
Depends if you HAD to by the four NES games first. People new to the Wii may find it a bit unfair to pay 28 bucks for a SNES game.
Then on the other hand, Nintendo could easily just release them all seperate, and THEN there'd be a lot of bitching
I don't give a shat about SF2HDR but I must admit nintendo is pissing me off lately. I just wish we'd get GOOD games, I don't even care about the whole "1 a day" thing. Ah well, I'm getting a 360 sometime this year (probably around Q2) so I'll be playing that for sometime. And I still have Smash Bros and Super Paper Mario.
Yeah, I'm probably gonna get a PS3, just can't bring myself to by an X-Box . But then I'll have best of both worlds, I'd still play Wii way more though.
They'll probably miss out on Super Mario All Stars completely and release the Super Mario Advance games on DSi. They might do this for Yoshi's Island too.
Well, I kinda gave up on VC awhile ago. I realized its cheaper to just buy the system and get the games I want. So, since then I got almost all of the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64 games I wanted. VC is kinda pointless for me now, unless there is a rare game I would otherwise not be able to afford (Harvest Moon is one)
Getting 1 VC Game per week is unacceptable.Sure if it is to push the WiiWare Service more it'd be ok.But this week we only got 1 of each.I was happier with 2 of each game per week.
@ post 91
I think that sums things up better than anything else on this page. After all, finding things to complain about is a tradition practically any gamer can get behind, whether it's complainin' about games, complainin' about Nintendo, or complainin' about complainin'.
Man the only reason why I'm on this sight is that hoefully pokemon stadium 1, or 2 will be released because that is still my favorite game of all time and my N64broke.
IMO the VC is totally not on the slide. From a consumer perspective, it might be easy to see it like this, but I think, if anything, Nintendo is doing they're best to preserve the lifespan of the service. To a lot of us, me included, it comes off as holding back on releasing no-brainer must-have downloads, but what it really comes down to is that RIGHT NOW the VC is not Nintendo's primary focus. A crappy holiday season for VC may be the result of an attempt to bring our focus to WiiWare or to promote holiday season retail releases (example: the unanimously panned WiiMusic). Whenever Nintendo feels a responsibility to update the VC more fervently, they will; that's how I look at it. For the time being, their attention belongs elsewhere as they try to more fully develop exactly WHAT the Wii is; WiiWare is only a very recent edition, and (hopefully) the upcoming MotionPlus will serve to redefine gaming on the Wii. When retail and WiiWare have had their turns, focus will come back to VC, and it will be most likely marked by a big release (Earthbound, for example). VC is a super integral part of the Wii, and Nintendo hasn't forgot about it, they're merely neglecting it for now.
@Wario4mom
Um, I think you ought to just get a new N64 and Pokemon Stadium. After all, even if it does come to the VC, you won't be able to use your own pokemon from the GB games, which is pretty much half(or more) of the fun.
@stuffgamer1 comment #74
yeah id espect no one to play an “online sonic game”. It just sounds so boring, but thats my opinion
@Bass XO comment #103
yeah id pay 2000 wii points also on Super Mario All Stars. I loved that game so much
“most of us should already have all four NES games anyway”
dont we all?
I think the Wii's next console will undoubtedly support VC and WiiWare downloads; Not including back compatibility for this stuff would be flat out retarded. I can see a bit of a challenge in this, since signing on to the shop channel doesn't require any sort of user account. But, straight up, ignoring old WiiWare and VC purchases is just a bad PR move, bad marketing. Over the last few years, Nintendo has spent record breaking amounts of money on research and development. That considered, I find it very hard to believe they'll make any bonehead moves when it comes to hardware. Software is another story...
Cool article about possibilities of next Wii:
http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
@Stuffgamer1 - Thanks. This is the second time I've gotten MS's new system late only to have it replaced two years after I got it. Ah, well. I'll enjoy it while it lasts. It's good to hear that all of my downloads will be compatible with my L.O.G.box 720, whenever it does hit the market. In fact that's very nice.
@lockelocke - Wrong. You can link your My/Club Nintendo account with your downloads.
Clayfrd is absolutely correct on the My Club Nintendo linking. It shows your downloads and registered games you own for the Wii. This would be the logical thing for Nintendo to do for future consoles and backward compatability downloading.
Regarding Super Mario All Stars, maybe you would have to download the original game and pay a bit more (like 100 or 200 WP) for the SNES upgrade. You do not have to have all of the games at once, since the upgrades would be available for each individual game individually!
Then again, if people are given the option of buying Sonic Mega/Gems Collections/Adventure DX and buying the games themselves throguh Virtual Console, buying Super Mario All-Stars as a separate game seems sorta reasonable.
I have Yoshi's Island for the DS, and if you have a DS, then it is a must have. Very awesome game.
I prefer at least 4 games per week as Nintendo's standard (2 VC + 2 WW). Honestly, I can't take these one game per week per service anymore. I want more choice!
ME--VC: 4 (soon to be 5) WW:9 (1 gifted)
There are several games I want on VC but only 1 has been released in the last 4 months or so, so I've mostly lost interest in VC.
@ness: Well, it wasn't an announcement for the new system as such, but something that came up in an interview about backwards compatibility. Microsoft didn't think of BC when designing the Xbox 360 and tacked it on poorly after the fact. They quickly realized that BC is a bigger deal than they thought and determined to make their next system fully BC. This is especially necessary the way that Xbox Live works, so you don't have to upkeep an account for each system.
@LinktotheFuture: I think you may be confused. True, Yoshi's Island DS is a great game, but it's not the game people are talking about here. Yoshi's Island DS is actually a poorly titled sequel to the SNES original (since released on GBA). If you did know that, then sorry for the correction. It just looks like you might not.
About Super Mario All Stars & having or not having all the games on VC already: I don't particularly want All Stars, and I have NONE of the games on VC. Why? Because I already have Super Mario Bros. DX along with every Super Mario Advance. The controls on Super Mario Bros. were out of whack in All Stars, and I'm a big fan of added content in games (and portability, to a point).
About Club Nintendo records: Far as I can tell, Club Nintendo only records the games you've bought that are eligible for coins. So that site wouldn't work very well for recalling the games released in the TWO YEARS before Club Nintendo got started.
@Stuffgamer--Thanks for the info, I thought Yoshi's Island DS was a remake of the SNES game. Either way, if Super Mario World 2 is put on the VC, I will download it in a heartbeat.
Mickeymac: I only used rental pokemon because I couldn't afford the game boy games.
I think the vc is awesome even when releases are coming at a trickle. There are an easy dozen games already out that I really want to download and many more that I would be interested in. But besides downloading them, I have to find time to play them all too. Do you have any idea how many hours I had to put into R-type to beat it??? I can think of a bunch of games to look forward to in the meantime. I think Nintendo is treating it like a long-term service, and I'm delighted to enjoy it.
Someday, if I'm really good, Faxanadu will come out
My opinion is that VC and WiiWare can only go up from here.
I have complete hope that more, and better games will come out. It will just be a matter of time.
@Wario4mom
Can you afford it now? I mean, you can get an N64, Pokemon Stadium, Pokemon Red, and a Transfer Pak for about $50 bucks on eBay and similar sites. Wouldn't think it would put you back that far.
There's so many comments here already...Nintendo are you listening?
I have refused for the last two months to buy any Nintendo games whatsoever until I get Castlevania 3 on the VC!!! What's the holdup?
A few more I want...SNES Pilot Wings and the classic NES Koei games Nobunaga's Ambition 2 and Uncharted Waters...it would be easy to just release these for the VC...please just put them out there! I want to become a Nintendo customer again!
@Stuffgamer1
Club Nintendo does record all games that you registered even before it launched, so you can see old Gamecube and Gameboy Advance games on there. The only thing is besides the VC and WiiWare, it'll never record a third-party publisher's game since they never come with codes. So, to reply to your comment in another way, Club Nintendo doesn't suck because of that, but here's something that sucks about it.
Good point Virus. I checked my Club Nintendo account and it's missing some games...also, thought I should mention that Nintendo asks for our opinion on the Nintendo channel to see what games fall under what category, this is only possible if you've played the game for a certain amount of time. Now, if they were to offer the ability to create accounts for this, it would solve the issue slightly. I wonder if they need to re-license the games for the next console?
@ Stuffgamer1 (#125.): "Far as I can tell, Club Nintendo only records the games you've bought that are eligible for coins."
No, i've checked it and it records EVERY VC/WiiWare-game you have bought.
@ Ness (#91): "Maybe because they earn money?"
Obviously not enough for the efforts involved, if for instance Hudson decides to switch to WiiWare where its titles fair very well.
A serious question: Which effort?
i don't know what's involved. the emulators are a one-time effort, retrieving the code can't be much work and putting it online should at maximum require to pay a fee to nintendo.
BUT: in the end all these companies are revenue-oriented and there has to be some reason why virtual console doesn't pay off for hudson. else they would just blow their whole arsenal online in one instant.
"and putting it online should at maximum require to pay a fee to nintendo."
I don't think so, because Nintendo (and also Microsoft and Sony) gets a part of money from every download.
okay, one reason less why there should be an obstacle in putting titles online. so the question remains why profit-oriented companies don't put their whole back catalogue online if there's nothing to lose.
Maybe there's an establishment fee for each game to be put on Wii Shop, and when you look at how many games Hudson's got up there, there'd be a lot of establishment fees if that were the case. And when you look at a lot of games like China Warrior, Dungeon Explorer and J.J & Jeff, it mightn't be justifiable for them to do it if the games won't generate enough revenue for the establishment fee.
But Hudson, if you're listening, PUT THE SNES BOMBERMAN GAMES UP AND YOU'LL MAKE A MINT, TRUST ME!
EDIT: There's 44 Hudson published titles up there, and the majority of them are on TG-16, which doesn't have many games float in the top 20 for very long.
This can't be true, Snes9xGX for the Wii emulate it perfectly without any slowdown and it's made by like 1 guy. Why nintendo can't do it then? they're too lazy or just don't care.
Also, I believe SMRPG use the same FX chip as Yoshi Island.
Thing is as far as SNES emulation goes it took at least 5 years for the dedicated group of individuals to do it. I believe they had SNES development documents as well...
But I don't think cartridge chips were documented simply due to the fact they were rarely used. Nintendo should have them fully documented (seeing as most of them are made by Nintendo) but even so getting it working perfectly and testing it isn't a one-day job and we don't know how many staff Nintendo have for this. Nintendo's size isn't huge as evidecned by constant second and third party development of frachise games...
As for Super Mario RPG. It does use a cartrdige chip. SA-1. Which is also used by Kirby Super Star and Kirby's Dreamland 3.
If you want to read about all the chips used by games and what they do refer to here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips
VC on the slide? Well yes in the sense that we are getting less games, but I like to think that this indicates the service (and our purchases) will be carried over to the Wii's succesor (probably called CUUM) which can only be a good thing.
Anyway the service as it is at the moment has plenty of great games, some of which I haven't downloaded yet so the lack of new great games each week isn't that much of a problem. I do wish they would give us a storage solution though - and let PAL gamers have more 60hz goodness than just imports and PC Engine games.
Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place on Club Nintendo? The following is the complete list of my games on said site:
Secret of Mana
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Strong Bad Episode 5: 8-Bt is Enough
Strong Bad Episode 3: Baddest of the Bands
Crosswords DS
Mario Kart
Strong Bad Episode 4: Dangeresque 3
Tetris Party
Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II
Kirby's Dream Land 3
So, where's SMRPG? StarTropics 1? Toki Tori? The first two Strong Bad episodes? And a few others suspiciously absent.
@Stuffgamer1
Not all Wii Shop games are eligible for registration on the Club Nintendo site. Everything released from Dec 08 until today is currently eligible but only certain games released before that can be registered. See this page for the current list: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/club/en/faq.jsp#vers
It just occured to me. Maybey the reason for the lack of upcomming classic games is because of the economic crisis, either that or Nintendo are taking their focus away from VC and on to other things.
One thing VC needs for classic games? ONLINE CO-OPERATIVE PLAY. How much fun would we have playing Secret of Mana with one player as the boy in the USA, one as the sprite in London, and another as the girl in Sidney?
"Not all Wii Shop games are eligible for registration on the Club Nintendo site."
Here in Europe (Germany) i can see every VC-/WiiWare-game i've downloaded since the start of VC/WiiWare.
Again @ Starwolf_UK:
Star Fox 2 programmer Dylan Cuthbert said that the game was fully completed, so it shouldn't be a big problem to release it.
Indeed Ness... I never got into Star Fox and I feel like I'm missing out on a gem. I think another game that should come out is A Boy And His Blob, another one tha I think would offer me plenty of laughter. I like obscure games...if anyone can offer me some good ideas that aren't obvious, I'd be greatful. And yes, I'm still on that stupid moving wall in Secret of Mana that pushes me to the spikes!
@Viral
I hate that damned wall.
@Ness
It is indeed complete, and available to play on the internet, via ROM. I just played through it last week; its short, but I consider it a must play for huge fans of Star Fox 64. You'll see why once you dip into it.
PS - So, on all this Club Nintendo madness, are these games automatically registered, or is this a manual process?
@ness: It USED to display all my registered and downloaded games, back when it was My Nintendo. But America's Club Nintendo doesn't show everything anymore. I suppose they probably have that data saved SOMEWHERE...
@lockelocke: First, make a Club Nintendo account. Then go to the Wii Shop Channel. Click "settings," I think it is. Something near the lower-right of the main screen (the one with VC, WiiWare, and Wii Channels listed at the top), anyway. There's a button on THAT screen to link you Wii Shop Channel account to your Club Nintendo account. You just input your user name and password, and Nintendo does the link. Every game you download on your Wii from then on will be automatically registered on Club Nintendo.
Really, just spam magic its weak against on its middle eye until its dead. Its that simple. You don't even need to time it or even attack the other eyes, it does the job well regardless. Fairy Walnuts would help if available.
Nintendo realy messed up this time!
They think our intrest in games has gone from Mario and Zelda like games to poping bubbles(POP) and Burping in peoples faces while getting fat(Major League Eating) WTF NINTENDO?!?!?!?!?!?
we want games like Yoshi's Island, Mojora's Mask, Earthbound, Final Fantasy(I,IV,VI) Super Mario All Stars(Hopefully deluxe with world) I mean Mario All Stars would get you more money due to the fact that Most people already bought all 4(or 5 if they realease Deluxe) of those Mario games, not to mention it would save space on my menu.
So why do they not care about Their REAL fans? Not little kids! usualy little children will buy somthing like a movie game and play it for one day then never touch the Wii again. The real fans are the boys and girls that grew up with the NES or SNES! We want GOOD games. NOT THE SH*T YOU HAVE BEEN GIVING US! If Nintendo keeps realeasing Wii-Ware and VC that suck then dont buy it! just DON'T! it will make them realize how much their games suck to not get enough money as a GOOD VC title. I know you would want to buy a new(usualy bad) Wii-Ware title. but try to read/watch a review that wasn't made by Nintedo.
Europe got Donkey Kong 3 and Enduro Racer today...
For the most part, I think it just comes down to the same problem Nintendo has with its main Wii system. Not enough third party support and spreading out their focus to too many markets. The thing is, its making them the most money so you can't fault them for doing it. On the flip side, if they keep doing it all the way until 'next gen'...they will be in the same boat PS3 is in this gen and they were in with the GC.
But its also not entirely their fault. Like hudson is doing with them and WiiWare, third parties are just shifting their attention away from the 'full picture' to only half of Nintendo's market's. Only working on the DS instead of the DS and Wii or Working on WiiWare instead of WiiWare and Virtual Console. In the end, its Nintendo who will suffer...but the third parties will make bank off the Wii and move onto who ever is the leader next gen.
Ok, I believe for every 3 to 4 months of 3 to 4 games a week
(VC + WW) we will get 2 to 3 months of "slow" time, hopefully. I own 33 VC and 1 WW (MM9) and if Nintendo is running out of licences then just release games from the coming soon list. Lincenes that they are already with, and all the other sequals or variations to games already out ie. Mega Man, Metal Slug, Contra, Ninja Turtles, Castlevania, Double Dragon, and others. We've had a few slow times and maybe it'll come around in this month or next just like what happened with the other slow months, but if it doesn't than I would just play a VC that I haven't beaten yet or play all the other classics again that I have, or play a different system (PS3). Plus, the last few weeks on VC have been good even if it was only one at a time. So people, "just grin and bare it".
Why is everyone always hating on POP? I actually thought it was a pretty good game.
So why do they not care about Their REAL fans? Not little kids!
Because it makes them money. Besides, Nintendo has always been a family-oriented company, and I don't see them changing that any time soon.
The real fans are the boys and girls that grew up with the NES or SNES
So I'm not a real fan, since I didn't start buying Nintendo systems until the N64 day?
As for the people who are asking for Mario All-Stars, especially those who say they're willing to pay $20 or more to re-buy a bunch of games they already own? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
@Kenryoku_Maxis
Actually, they have a lot of Third-party support, it's just that most third-party games crap.
@lockelocke
The Star Fox 2 ROM you're talking about isn't quite complete, it's still missing the last few sections, as well as some more debugging.
@MetroidMania - Hey, jerk! "The real fans are the boys and girls that grew up with the NES or SNES." What? I grew up on the N64, and that makes me a poor fan? I actually went to the effort to purchase those consoles myself, and I didn't have my mommy buy them for me (like those that "grew up on them" did). You really ought to rephrase your definition of a real fan. Age, which is something I certainly didn't choose, should have nothing to do with whether or not I'm a real Nintendo fan. How about the folks that grew up on any system, but they still went to the effort to collect and play all of the Nintendo classics and have supported the games that Nintendo have made excellently and aren't just old? I'd be willing to bet (unless you have a VR-32) that I even have more Nintendo machines than even your-hardcore-30-something-Nintendo-fan self. By the way you punctuate and structure your sentences, I'd have to assume you're actually much younger than 30, and therefore not an NES-child, and not a "real fan".
@Viral - I recently came across a game on Xbox Live Arcade (assuming you have one) that I don't think is terribly well known (of course, I could be completely wrong). It's called Smash TV, and it was made by John Tobias (former Midway imployee, responsible for Mortal Kombat along with Ed Boon (spell their names backwards to get Noob Saibot, a character in the series)) and some other guy. It's an arcade game about a game show that takes place in the futuristic 1999 (released in '90 in arcades), in which game shows consist of contestants shooting hordes of enemies for fabulous prizes. It's got dual joystick controls (like Geometry Wars, if you've played that), and there are various enemies, fantastic futuristic prizes like VCRs, great bosses, and the co-op is fantastic. It's really a must have, if you ask me. It's hard, but unlimited continues are allowed. Anyway, you asked for an obscure game (that really might not be that obscure), so there you go.
My interpretation of what MetroidMania said (and hopefully meant) is that little kids NOW just STARTING gaming with Wii aren't learning what quality gaming is (there are exceptions, but...). If you started with N64, I for one have nothing against you. By my age, I should've started with SNES, but we also still had our NES hooked up beside it (still do, same place as ever), so I really grew up playing both. I hope I made my point, because I don't want this part of this post to drag on and get even more confusing...
@Bass X0: You have my sympathies, to be sure. I shan't be looking into that news post further because it has a bad effect on my mind and wastes time I could be spending on gaming (in other words, I'm TRYING to cut back on this site a teeny bit...see how THAT works out...).
@Clayfrd: Yeah, I don't really think Smash TV is quite as obscure as you may think. It was included on Midway Arcade Treasures 1, which is where I first played it. I believe it's relatively popular as games on that collection go, too. If you want a REALLY great Midway game on Live (great imo, anyway), check out Root Beer Tapper. I'm sure a lot of people don't like that game half as much as I do, but... If anybody cares, last I checked, I was in the top 100 on the leaderboard for Root Beer Tapper. That was a few months ago, but I doubt it's changed all THAT much (it's a pretty high score as it goes). I should play that again...
148. Viral: Moving wall that pushes you into the spikes? Wher is this? I downloaded Secret of Mana 2 days after it was released on VC and I am pretty far in, though I hav't played in at least a month due to Golden Axe 1 and 2 and Super Metroid. I might be able to help, if I'm past the "Moving wall"
Alos, WE ARE NOT GETTING ALL STARS! They've already released a few of the games that were on it, if they released All stars now it would defeat the purpose of them releasing the other games. Plus they make more money if we download each game independently then if we paid 8 bucks for all of them.
@Stuffgamer1
Concerning the Club Nintendo issue, have you checked under "My Account Settings?" On the left sidebar, there is a menu that says "Products Registered," and you can select "see all" underneath it. From there, you can see all your purchases. On mine, I can see SMRPG and my registered products all the way back to 2005 (when I actually started caring about registering them...don't quite understand why I did...).
I apologize if you have already done this. If you have and you can't see everything, well, you have my sympathy.
@ MetroidMedia: Real fans buy games they like and not just Nintendo ones...
There are plenty of other great non-Nintendo games already released, maybe you should try some of these .
*of course never expected SF4/HD on Wii
*also, think its obvious to [probably] most that Nintendo has 'mis-managed' VC.. personally, don't think they care very much.. +/or, maybe don't listen to their staff for any ideas.. they seem pretty dull/dumb.
Well, I think that Nintendo will eventually release some of these great titles we have, obviously due to the fact that the technology has increased and they have the same data files and whatnot. I can see the anger, I really can, and do. It makes sense, but what we don't know, is what Nintendo really plans to release. Yes they have announced some, but maybe they're trying to surprise us, or maybe they're working on these solutions and using these 1-game a week trends to help emulate these different games. I currently have 14 Virtual Console TItles, (I think) and there are plenty I'll take, and I think there are plenty you all can get to. If you've downloaded every single virtual console game that isn't rated 3 stars or higher(example), then you have reason to complain about it. There are PLENTY and I do mean PLENTY of games to choose from. The only real issue is the storage problem. Besides that, the VC is just probably just taking a little break. Remember what the main games are for the Wii, and I'm almost positive that no one here has every single game out there.
@Virus: No, I hadn't seen that link. It worked, and I can see all my registered stuff now. Thanks!
this is a very interesting discussion. I do see the Virtual Console as a very nice and interesting platform to revive your youth and not to have your living room full of various new and old consoles. On the one side I get a problem with space and on the other side with my wife I think most of my wishes for the VC have been said take Mario Kart and as I have been spending so much time on the Commodore machines my wishes are to see the Amiga as well. Nice titles to look forward to ! Hopefully it will happen. I have started to look into the Nintendo Channel during the holidays and has somebody else come across the C64 videos there ? I have found an interview with Ian Livingstone and John Rowlands (Mayhem in Monsterland) so far. Really funny to see how these guys look like now but still the passion from way back then in their hearts.
Nintendo should have added HD technology for the sake of SF II.
The "Coming Soon" list doesn't make for especially great reading, although my heart has been sufficiently warmed by the news that the mighty "Nintendo World Cup" will be hitting the service at some point. How many other football games allow you to actually kill the other team's players? It's an eye-bulging classic.
I recommend those of you who are peeved at the lack of quality games confirmed for '09 to be proactive about it and write to the developers who made the games that you want to see released. I would download the NES classic "Faxanadu" just to have the satisfaction of knowing that I once again own it (and to listen to the music, and with no indication that it's ever going to see the light of day on the VC, I took it upon myself to write to Hudson-Soft and ask them whether or not they would ever consider re-releasing it on the VC. Alright, they never actually technically got back to me (at all), but I feel better knowing that I've actually done something about it, and that suits at Hudson-Soft now know that at least one person wants to see the game live again in 2009 on the Nintendo Wii. If we all get our writing hats on and start pestering developers in a big big way, then our combined and concerted efforts might just begin to pay off.
@Yatesy: think you'd have to put more of the pressure on Nintendo. not sure who takes the bigger risk (the IP owner, or the publisher,ect.) but, ultimately, it will come down to Nintendo [--who usually either delays it, or dosen't release it at all].*
With all these one-game weeks, My interest in VC is declining. While I'm definitely keeping an eye out for any quality titles that MIGHT hit the service, I've found other means to get my retro fix. I found a neat 3-in-one console at my local trading store that plays SNES, NES, and Genesis games, so I'm gonna buy that and not have to wait every week for disappointing games. For games that are particularly hard to find, I'm using handy-dandy ROMs for.
This problem could easily be fixed too. Instead of having 1 VC/1 Wiiware weeks, or 1VC and 2 Wiiware weeks, they could have 2VC/Wiiware wekks or flip-flop between 1 VC/ 2 WW and 2VC/ 1WW. There's no reason for them to keep doing this!
EDIT: I forgot to mention, nice choice on the Betrayal pick. It fits the situation quite well!
@Hal: You're probably right. Although you'd think that it would be the actual developers themselves who would approach Nintendo about wanting to put their game on the virtual service. Or am I wrong there? Do Nintendo sometimes approach developers and ask them if they'd like the game to be re-released? What about games from companies no longer in business? What happens to those games? Anyone know the answers to these questions?
When the VC was announced, I had this wondrous vision of every game that I'd ever played as a kid, on various old-school consoles, being reborn and conveniently packaged in a downloadable format, available for to relive at any time of my choosing. Desert Strike, James Pond 2, Faxanadu, Duck Tales, NHLPA '93... no longer a fading nostalgic remnant of a memory, but right there, ready to be enjoyed again, at anytime. Whilst many of these cherished classics have been released, the service is not quite the fantasy land of retro gaming that I had first envisioned.
While I have snagged some great games from yesteryear (e.g. Legend of Kage and Kid Icarus to name a couple of my earliest acquisitions) through Virtual Console, some of my favorites from the NES era have not been and, given the usual 7-year life-cycle of systems, will never see the light of day on the VC. When I originally parted with my NES, I made a list entitled "HappyNES" of the top 60 games from the system, so if you see any of these show up on VC, there is something good about them, but for those older gamers among you who have played a lot of these in yesteryear, you know what I'm talking about when there likely isn't much hope of seeing many of these niche titles ported.
My top 10 NES faves (you can see I had trouble ranking these):
#1 Action: Castlevania 3: Dracula's Curse
#1 Adventure: Crystalis
#1 RPG: Might and Magic: Secret of the Inner Sanctum
#1 Strategy: Gemfire
#2 RPG: Magician
#2 RPG: Pool of Radiance
#3 RPG: Destiny of an Emperor
#3 RPG: Dragon Warrior 4
#4 RPG: Dragon Warrior 3
#4 RPG: Final Fantasy
The Next 50 Greatest:
Alien Syndrome
Bionic Commando
Blaster Master
Castlevania
Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest
Chiller
Contra
Dragon Warrior
Dragon Warrior 2
Dragonstrike
Dungeon Magic
Faria
Faxanadu
Gauntlet
Golgo 13: The Mafat Conspiracy
Golgo 13: Top Secret Episode
Heroes of the Lance
Hillsfar
Iron Sword
King's Quest 5
Legacy of the Wizard
Little Nemo: The Dream Master
Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2: Snake's Revenge
Metroid
Monster Party
Romance of the 3 Kingdoms
Rygar
Solstice
Spy Hunter
Stanley: The Search for Doctor Livingston
Star Tropics
Star Tropics 2: Zoda's Revenge
Strider
Super Contra
Super Mario Brothers 1
Swords and Serpents
The Bard's Tale
The Battle of Olympus
The Immortal
The Legend of Zelda
The Legend of Zelda: The Adventure of Link
The Magic of Scheherazade
Tombs and Treasures
Ultima: Exodus
Ultima: Quest of the Avatar
Willow
Wizardry
Wizardry 2: Knight of Diamonds
Wizards and Warriors
-Taraka
We'd all like to see them put most, if not all the past games they could on the Virtual Console. And its obvious that the biggest problem with the Virtual Console now is the slow pace at which te games are coming out. But for the most part, many of those games you have on the list probably won't have a chance to come out just because the companies who own them won't or can't get the rights to Nintendo to put them up. This is also a possibility to why games are coming out slower now.
I sympathize with you. I collect NES games. My collection of physical carts is 72 games and I have a list of over 250 other games I hope to find someday. But that's the only way a person really is going to be able to play all of the games they want when it comes down to it. Especially from companies like Konami, Capcom, Square-Enix or SEGA. Who by all accounts came out strong for the Virtual Console, but won't give up all their games because they can make more money with them down the road. Or because they don't think a random game like 'Darkwing Duck' on the NES will sell.
did the guy who couldn't beat the wall boss on secret of mana manage to beat it yet?
Kenryoku_Maxis,
Some of these games seem to be in Nintendo's power to put out. I question the Big N's decision, for example, to put out Zoda's Revenge, but not the original Star Tropics, which is a much more nostalgic game. Faxanadu was published by Nintendo, although perhaps they no longer have the rights to it.
Regarding other publishers, I don't think that they expect to make more money repackaging these games in other fashions so much as they don't want to spend the resources to get them to work for VC, just as you suggest with Darkwing Duck, a show whose audience has all grown up. Capcom's Destiny of an Emperor, while a phenomenal game, is a niche title in the West, and while we did see SNES Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV on the VC, that game is a jump up in complexity from III, so I'm guessing it was to satisfy the console grognards out there. I did manage to get an official Konami compilation of Castlevania 1-3 and Contra/Super C for PC several years back, and with a gamepad, the games play just like the originals (except with the cool added feature of being able to save anywhere, anytime).
Finally, considering the obscurity of some of the titles that have come out for VC, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that any title on my list might come out. But I am sure that there is a group at Nintendo that decides which titles come out, and this group may be biased in their leaning toward particular genres and their own familiarity with titles. We can't be surprised that a lot of Nintendo-published titles are released, but if any of Nintendo's debating group have not played any of these titles, how can they decide whether they are of the caliber to re-release them? Plus, with the departure of Nintendo Power's staff from the primary HQ, this one previously in-house resource that they had is probably much harder to draw upon now.
I think it's great that a site like vc-reviews.com exists, however, to shed light on titles that are or may come out for the Wii VC. Likewise, fan efforts across the web to archive info on older games (e.g. MobyGames) are highly valued. If a deal could be made between video game companies and public libraries to keep the titles alive in some legal format, it would keep some titles from sinking into permanent obscurity just because they were never popular with a large-enough audience. Right now, the library of VC titles, Xbox Live Arcade and Sony's venue, whatever that is called, are the best legal efforts that I have seen to do that, albeit fledgling efforts. The other concern about game longevity is down the road when the Wii and the Xbox 360 become obsolete and no longer supported by their companies, just as the NES/SNES/N64 are no longer supported by Nintendo except for in a most rudimentary manner (e.g. repairs are no longer available), and Microsoft no longer supports Windows 98. We run into the same issue all over again.
A little late to the party, but I I'd still like to say thanks to Damo and VC-Reviews for choosing to make this article. While some posters on the site just want the topic to go away, the REALITY is that it's a legitimate perspective based on release patterns and other factors, and just generally is a topic that is on a great many folks' minds. It needed to have a formal forum for its discussion.
That said, I agree with the idea that the VC is on a somewhat downward trend in quality and frequency of release (neither being a GOOD thing, no matter how folks desire to spin it). The past does not dictate the future, but it can be a useful indicator.
Another more personal indicator, I have a couple dozen downloads on my VC currently, yet my Wii sits unpowered and yielding it's AV input slot to my PS2 right now, and has for a few weeks now. What does it say to the impact on Wii gaming morale when there are great games downloaded ready to play on it, but because it won't maintain it's efforts via VC and regular releases I'm looking back to previous gen systems and other current gen system purchases.....from a company I don't much admire??
More and more I get the impression that Nintendo is getting lazy and cheap and just not interested in putting in the fundamental effort and support to emulate a slew of games that they can rather cop out on instead (if the rumors of the reasons are actually Nintendo's reasons and not the apologist folks' efforts to cover for Nintendo's lack of effort).
And decades later Nintendo is still sqewing around with it's 3rd party support and just BEGGING to be left holding the Wii banner practically alone just like with past Nintendo systems. There's no adaptation to past mistakes. There's no desire to yield or bend in areas where the bending would harm little and help a great deal.
Bah.
Most recent game played?
Dragonball Z Budokai 3 ( PS2 )
Most recent game puchases?
SNK Arcade Classics for PS2 (even as recently as 6 months ago I was still determined to support VC by buying the individual games from the VC that I wanted from that collection......... not anymore)
Metal Slug Anthology for PS2 (Nintendo can thank their dribble of MS's for that........1 and 2 only so far? #2 and no X?? Greedy b......s. I say that with as much tongue in cheek as I can muster....)
Legend of Legaia (PS1)
Saga Frontier (PS1)
Tales of Symphonia (Gamecube)
How much does it say about the Wii VC that my excitement and hope for it have dwindled enough for me to start buying out of print games for other systems again? (Like others I had a modest hope of being able to box up my cartridges and center my classic gaming around the VC..... but quite literally too little, too late....... for a WORLD of great classic games they aren't getting out to the VC gamers......but instead choose to slow down production)
If I weren't still too frustrated with getting dead cartridges, I'd probably be back to buying used NES and SNES games again too. I'll stick to some most wanted classic disc games and hope that Nintendo figures out how to turn their Wii/VC ship aroun in the next 6 months (I'd say 12 months but by the time we wait for 12months once or twice Big N will already have a new system out and won't have done JACK to improve on the current downward trend for their Wii and VC. Motion gaming fadism won't carry them forever. The over 25 croud of gamers with the larger wallets and the memories of classic games WILL be a big bite in their arse (and a boon to ....I can't believe I'm saying it......Microsoft, who is actually showing effort to obtain licenses and get downloadable games out in good quality........ I wouldn't have thought so a year ago, but the Wii may indeed be the last Nintendo system I ever buy (and I'm in my early 30's, so that's a lot of future gaming money spent ELSEWHERE......especially if multiplied by other games). I'll support the VC as much as Nintendo supports it. As their support gets worse, I'll tighten my criteria for what I'll spend money for on it, as they do better, I'll allow myself to be more sentimental and whimsical and buy more games I am not as desperate to have. The decision, as it has always been, will be theirs. The reaction will be mine. I hope Nintendo figures some stuff out All of a Sudden (TM)...... otherwise a fond era of Nintendo gaming for me may be near an end when the next gen Nintendo console comes out.
Bah, I dunno. I'm just plain frustrated with the self stylized Inscrutability of Nintendo. They need to take fewer lessons from Charlie Chan and a few from Doctor Phil (more communication and caring about views other than their own).
@173. Bass X0: I've no idea. What wall boss is he talking about anyways? I've gotten quite far in SoM so I might be of some help, but I don't even know what boss he's at ...
@Captain_Konami - werd. My Wii is now being used by my fiance and her daughter. I may return to it with the release of Wii Punch Out, or the new Zelda. A little Mario might coax me. But until that happens, I'll be enjoying my 360 and PS3. More importantly, I'll be getting my old-school fix from my classic systems with the controllers the games were designed for and enjoy the glorious scent of aging molded plastic.
For me it seems that some people just want to be unable to see good/great games on the Wii/VC...
I think we'll still see VC greats down the road. Sure we would like at them all sooner rather than later, but like anything else, they are going to spread them out. Although we've been getting one per week for quite some time, they have been some of the better titles.
Though I would really like the original Star Fox someday Nintendo. And Earthbound. Please?
didn't hudson help make mario party?
...oh noes..., i love mario party, it would be awesome to be able to play all 8 of my mario parties on one system, mario party 2 is the best
i think the only games left on my want list are yoshi's island and super mario kart, and of course smash bros n64... i cant think of any others right now
I had a thought this morning when I woke up for school. I thought after Nintendo has released all these awesome games for the Virtual Console and other systems, how come they keep beating around the bush? They need to give fans what they want in order to keep up with the competition. Nintendo has so many great games, but they need to step up their game. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo and they put out the occasional awesome Virtual Console and DS title and rare awesome Wii title. They just seem to be a stale mate as of late. I wonder where our beloved Nintendo is going. They had such a good track record and makes me wonder, "Why change so suddenly now?" I just don't get it honestly. I'll still stand by Nintendo and but their games, but they owe the fans some explanation for their short-comings as of late. I know it could not be the economy because that is so played out. I guess I kind of understand how the Wii is easy to develop for, so on and so forth. I just miss when Nintendo's seal of approval meant something.
@ ness - I hate to say it, but if that's all you are getting from these posters then you are completely missing the point. I'm trying to understand your unnatural lust for Nintendo, but keep in mind that tough love is still love. Nintendo is continuing to distance itself from it's core audience. It's obvious that this is to reassign resources to court their new audience... the casual gamer... and to promote the neutered Wiiware shop that never had a chance to live up to it's potential.
There will only ever be a handful of truly innovative and stellar must have Wiiware titles. Mark my words: Without change this is the most likely future for Wiiware. Everything else will be waggle games, cash-ins, and variations on a theme. And not very compelling ones. This is not a gloom and doom view however; I don't see this written in stone. But the walls need to come down. There needs to be a REAL storage solution, and a real push to reach out to indy developers. We all want to see Nintendo succeed, but only if they earn it. I for one won't support sloth and complacency. I certainly don't need mediocre to poor 'classics' trickling onto my console. So I vote with my Wiipoints, and vent here.
That doesn't mean I don't want good games (FYI - I own over 60 VC games, and I've finished at least 50 of them. I've owned the Wii since the midnight launch). Quite the contrary... that's what I, and many others here, have been asking for.
The only reason i have ever bought the Wii is because of it's VC and i found out there's more to this Wii than old school greatness but that is not the point the point is that the VC isn't over yet because the Wii isn't over yet i agree with the person of this article that there should be more qualitity games and I know how frustrated you guys are i have been waiting for star fox and the final fantasy games since the VC came out it will never happen and i am pissed off but instead of saying what a bad job Nintendo has done i am going to help them and go over to Nintendo of America and do the VC thing myself or at least try so star fox might be on the VC sooner and if you guys want your game on there should help to instead of sitting around. Instead of complaining on how Goldeneye will never come to VC you should all send letters to Microsoft and Activision asking if they can send Goldeneye to VC and you should all do it if you want it there anyways. All I am really saying is Nintendo isn't doing a bad job and that there busy making games or getting yelled at from consumers who can't find Wii Fit and it stresses them out and they can't do it all. If you want Nintendo to realease better games help out any way you possibly can because Nintendo has already helped us let's help them and it can be quite possible that any VC game can be realeased even Goldeneye and Banjo-kazooie
@ VCfanboy108 - um...wow. Well, as much of a fan as I am of paragraph-long run-on sentences, I have to really question the thought put into your statement. I don't believe that Nintendo is 'stressed' about anything and I have a real problem with someone painting 'poor old Nintendo, the Multi-Billion Dollar company' as some hapless victim. And they are doing a poor job. Unfortunately unlike you, the vast majority of the posters on this page can't just walk over to Nintendo and help out or make things right. Our only recourse is to vent and hope for better and carry on. Makes us feel a little better to voice our opinions. I'm happy for you that you have that kind of power and access at Nintendo. Good luck with that.
Maniacfatty your right man you guys can't just walk to nintendo and help and i was really stupid for bringing that up. What i was trying to say is that you guys cannot get on there backs its not just there fault Square-Enix has barley done a thing. You guys just have to wait and if you guys cant help out Nintendo instead of saying what a bad job they have done, if you can't then play the games on it already. That's what i ment to say and i am sorry that you guys took it differently. Because really if wasn't for Microsoft buying Rare there wouldn't be a VC N64 mess. And even though Microsoft is doing a good job Rare isn't Viva Pinata might look hard to make but compared to other games they made with Nintendo not really. As for me going to Nintendo I can't just walk in either but I bet they wouldn't have a problem with it if I do it for free so unless star fox comes sooner than July 2009 i will try to help them.
@Yatesy: very true. although, we'll probably never know just how many developers were 'unconvincing'+refused/unreleased + what happens afterward.. also, sure alot of IPs have been absorbed by bigger companies once the past holders are out-of-business; that shouldn't be too hard to track down.
@Taraka: well put! though, could it really be public, or would it take private investment? what form would that take? Creative Commons ?
@Captain_Konami: unfortunately, completely agree!!!!!!!!!(lol especially the recent purchases*! cool playlist.) why don't they focus?! are they really that lazy?! or, overly bureaucratic (that is, meticulously lazy!).
*Ico series or MegaMan Legends, anyone? lol
Would love to see them add 3DO games to the VC someday.. Way of the Warrior was awesome on 3DO
@ Jasco - Way of the Warrior was what now? Awesome? Good lord... someone get this poster a real fighting game - STAT! It's not too late to save 'em!
@Manicfatty- Way of the Warrior was the best game they had out for the 3DO but did not say i played it i would rather play Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter anyday.....
@Jasco - There were acually a few good games for the 3DO... at the time, the 3DO Road Rash and Madden were the best versions of their respective series! Super Street Fighter II Turbo was a good port for the time as well. Return Fire is a bad azz game and along with Road Rash probably one of my favorites for the system as well as Return Fire 2. I borrowed WotW from the only friend of mine who also owned a 3DO, and I can tell you first hand... it blew. The games above represent the 3DO's finest. Total Eclipse was a ok shooter that was more of a fun tech demo. Oooo... Star Control II. That was a stand-out too. Twisted Game Show was a guilty pleasure a fun game to bust out when friends were around.
Need for Speed - Meh, Crash n Burn - Meh
I wish I still had my 3DO.
Because I am bored and like some wish there could be 32 bit channels on the VC - the 3DO list from Wikipedia... with my 2 cents added.
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I don't really agree with all this either. So far WiiWare games aren't that great. The only WiiWare games I own at the moment are World of Goo which is pretty darn good and Dr. Mario which is just too hard! There are so many Virtual Console games that I want. If Nintendo is going to shift their attentions to WiiWare, they should at least give us the major games they know we want. Games like Earthbound and SSB. Give us all the classics first, then while we feast on them, focus your attention on WiiWare.
vc has probaly improved since this article with the storage solution and another N64 game and arcade
Poor Yoshi, I'll never look at Super Mario World the same way again, you're just doing Bowser's work by killing Yoshi's.
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