I have a real hard time understanding people who think that it is somehow okay to just up and change Link's gender. Link isn't actually an empty character that players project their personalities onto. A great deal of effort goes into his design, Link has every bit as much character as other Nintendo characters. You can't just shave off Mario's moustache and turn him into a woman so why is it any more justified with Link? It makes no sense at all.
Because Miyamoto has bluntly said exactly that on multiple occasions regarding Link?
You can have strong female characters without Link being female. You can have a better story by giving Link more character. To have a defined character Link needs a gender.
And where does it say that that gender HAS to be male? Nintendo has said repeatedly that they want Link to be a character where we can see ourselves...that's currently easier for one half the population than the other.
Where did I say that Link has to be male? I said earlier that it wouldn't bother me and I'll say that again if you want. What I was trying to say was that Zelda doesn't have to have Link as a female character to push this. And the bit where I said Link has to have a defined gender to have a more developed character? I didn't mean he HAD to be male. I was just saying please, please don't make Link completely gender neutral. I want a more developed Link character who has better defined motivations above anything else in terms of story.
"Why I don't think this discussion matters?" Skywake, baby, I've loved your posts in the past, but this offends me on so many levels. >.<
This discussion matters. A female Link would matter. Actually, as we've seen in this very thread, a female Link would matter to a lot of people. Denying that based on a scene from a game that has little to no significance to this new game is illogical. Link was a different character in Ocarina than he was in ALttP, or Wind Waker, or Twilight Princess, or Skyward Sword. He'll probably be a different character in this game too. He might even be female. Either way, your enjoyment of the game shouldn't ride on whether or not Link is a man.
I think you've missed the direction I was going for with that comment. I didn't mean to write off the idea of more strong female characters in games. I was simply saying that Zelda can push gender equality without necessarily making Link a female character. That they already pushed it in Skyward Sword more than I expected them to and that they could easily push it a bit further. Frankly as someone who is supportive of feminism I'd rather see discussion about actually improving the representation of women in games and an improvement of the story rather than some token gesture.
I'd rather a Zelda game where Zelda and other female characters are represented well with an awesome story regardless of Link's gender. Even if he was still male that would be better than a Zelda with a token female Link where you're still saving a lame duck Zelda from a castle taken over from man-beast Ganon. It would also be better than a Zelda where Link was even more of a thin character to the point where he was completely gender neutral. And Skyward Sword did that, in Skyward Sword you were chasing after Impa and Zelda who were together outsmarting the rather camp Ghirahim. I mean, that's not changing things up? Surely that's a step in the right direction.
And just to prove that nobody ever reads a full post or the context, here's the comment I made my post after
I've never seen the huge fuss about whether Link is male or female. His character is always so bland he could easily be completely gender-neutral, and it's not like he and Zelda ever wind up in any kind of torrid romance with one another — nothing beyond 'you must save the princess' and then eyes meeting shyly in a garden, anyway — so why is giving the player an option such a big deal? If it helps some of us to identify with the main character a little easier, who cares?
Why I don't think this discussion matters. [video of Impa kicking donkey]
You can have strong female characters without Link being female. You can have a better story by giving Link more character. To have a defined character Link needs a gender. [...] I wouldn't have a problem with a female Link, but you don't need a female Link. I would have a problem with a more bland Link.
To which both of you only responded to the "without Link being female" and " I don't think this discussion matters" bits. Way out of context guys.
Boy, there sure is a huge amount of controversy over a vague comment that didn't really mean anything in the end. Honestly, I'm a little afraid to throw my two cents here out of worry of offending anyone, but here it goes...
Personally, it'd feel a little shoe-horned if Nintendo just changed Link's gender all of a sudden. He's kind of a defined character who now has a lot of history, it'd feel a little weird if they just did that out of the blue. Yeah, yeah, gender equality and all that, but I'm just gonna throw this out here: How many people do you hear complaining about Samus not being a guy? I mean, it feels a little weird how people are saying this would be a HUGE progressive step in gender equality in gaming and whatnot, but people forget all about little ol' Samus. Y'know Samus...strong independent woman, kicks butts and takes names, blows planets up from time to time? It feels like a bit of a double standard in my opinion if people complain about there not being a gender option for a game that only allows playable male characters, but that isn't the case when it's the opposite.
Don't get me wrong, I recently got Super Metroid off the VC and have been loving it so far, including playing as a strong female lead . It'd feel wrong to just take this awesome woman and turn her into a man just for the sake of gender equality. She wouldn't even be the bad-donkey everybody knows and loves anymore if they did that, and it'd kind of feel like a similar thing if they did the same to Link.
But in the end I wouldn't really care too much. It's Zelda, it's not like character gender will change the game-play or anything. Games are meant to be enjoyed, and the gender of the character I'm playing doesn't really affect how much I'm enjoying a game. I just hope everyone will enjoy the game when we finally get out hands on it, whether Link's a he, she or it.
Nintendo's most logical choice to go for an audience the other two are ignoring.
This makes complete sense.
I whole heartily agree with this statement. Nintendo has (for the most part) completely lost the "frat boy" crowd. They know what they need to do is appeal to female gamers and the retro gamers. Personally I think a good choice would be a high budget action game with a female protagonist that doesn't have fan service. Samus is a great character in Metroid and all. But she's got too much of a fan service history in recent years.
I have a real hard time understanding people who think that it is somehow okay to just up and change Link's gender. Link isn't actually an empty character that players project their personalities onto. A great deal of effort goes into his design, Link has every bit as much character as other Nintendo characters. You can't just shave off Mario's moustache and turn him into a woman so why is it any more justified with Link? It makes no sense at all.
Ummm, yeah for the most Link is exactly that — an empty character that players project their personalities onto. Hell, you don't even have to name him Link. I remember my buddy and I named him "Beef" back in the SNES days, and that's what we referred to him as we played through the game together. He has no dialogue, and very little motivation beyond the core "SAVE HYRULE." Everything else you, the player, project on to him. Sure, his art design is great, but it has also radically changed over the years. Miyamoto has said that Link is a forever changing character the morphs to fit whatever story they come up with. How would making Link a female really break that philosophy? It wouldnt. Get over yourself.
The Mario titles have had Peach, as a playable female character, since Mario 2... so no real need to shave anyone's moustache off.
I have a real hard time understanding people who think that it is somehow okay to just up and change Link's gender. Link isn't actually an empty character that players project their personalities onto. A great deal of effort goes into his design, Link has every bit as much character as other Nintendo characters. You can't just shave off Mario's moustache and turn him into a woman so why is it any more justified with Link? It makes no sense at all.
Because Miyamoto has bluntly said exactly that on multiple occasions regarding Link?
I wasn't aware Shigeru Miyamoto had said that Link could easily be changed into a girl. You must be referring to the whole projecting personality thing, the problem is that this doesn't actually work in practice because Link can never be anything other than how he is written in the game.
Don't get me wrong, I recently got Super Metroid off the VC and have been loving it so far, including playing as a strong female lead . It'd feel wrong to just take this awesome woman and turn her into a man just for the sake of gender equality.
No one would turn Samus into a man for the sake of gender equality because that would be doing...well the opposite. The whole point is that there are very few strong female lead characters (especially ones that are not overly sexualized) in videogames. Samus is a beloved character, but does not have the kind of presence or reknown as The Legend of Zelda games do. Zelda is one of the most well known franchises of all time, and just so happens to house a main character that is essentially a blank slate, so making Link a female just seems to make sense.
But in the end I wouldn't really care too much. It's Zelda, it's not like character gender will change the game-play or anything. Games are meant to be enjoyed, and the gender of the character I'm playing doesn't really affect how much I'm enjoying a game. I just hope everyone will enjoy the game when we finally get out hands on it, whether Link's a he, she or it.
Then why the resistance? You just said character gender would not be that big of a deal to you, but it probably would be a pretty huge deal to a lot of other female gamers. So why insist on keeping Link male?
I've been watching this tread for a while now and like where it was at first but its really getting heated so I don't wanna make an enemy with my opinion with that said...
Link being a girl wouldn't hurt the series right now I'm mean they look like their going all out with the next game so it could have been an interesting take but as I've seen some post and read the link (haha) saying Mr. Aonuma was joking its not really that important and other than for a nice aesthetic change how is making a blank, no dialogue and real personality,(aside from slight laziness) going to make a huge change for the gaming community for zelda fans sure but other than that the memes will come and rule 34 will destroy it <shivers>
Capcom at E3: Guys we're sorry about how we've been treating Mega Man so we're gonna make it up to you by releasing the Mega Man Cancelled Collection with all the titles we cancelled in the condition they we're in just before we pulled the plug. Now who wants Street Fighter X Monster Hunter?
Yeah, I also noticed the big amount of females around in the Super smash brothers Wii u/3DS roster! I can't complain though, they are all nice characters (Wii fit trainer is a bit strange, but I guess she's fun too)!
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Topic: Nintendo balancing the gender bias
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