Topic: Is this cheating?

I'm on a nostalgia trip right now, playing through Banjo-Kazooie again on the Nintendo Switch's N64 service.

Last night I got to Clanker's Cavern and drowned three times or so trying to free Clanker, and as we know, the game sends you back to the start of the world with all your notes from that world wiped.

I was adamant that I wasn't going to be tempted to use suspend points/save states, a feature the Switch has in its retro games and wasn't the way the original was played. But I ran right out of patience with this particular part of Clanker's Cavern, and caved, saving myself a bit of angst. On a side note, it made me wonder how we had the patience to do it back in the day.

So - would you consider it cheating to use suspend points/save states given that was not the way the developer intended the game to be played originally? Or are you of the opinion that it isn't cheating, as Nintendo has allowed such a feature in its run of these games?

I'm undecided, but it's an interesting debate.

Your thoughts?

I mean, even original games often had strategy guides, cheat codes, bugs, section skips, etc. Is using any of that in a game cheating? Fundamentally, it's a single person game so there is no cheating because there is no competition to cheat. Play in the way that brings you enjoyment. If you are planning to submit a run as an official speedrun or something there are rules, but otherwise I would say anything goes. You can choose to make extra rules or restrictions for yourself but that is purely up to you.

You have Nintendo’s blessing to use save states and rewind (where available).

Judging by certain advertisements, we also have Nintendo's blessing to get a family member or friend to beat the annoying parts so we can continue on 😆

I wouldn’t say it’s cheating. There isn’t any competition in place or any other people you are playing with, so you aren’t cheating at all! You can of course play a game in any way you’d like, or if it makes frustrating parts of a game more enjoyable and easier to complete. Getting annoyed when playing a game is no fun, and the save states feature definitely saved me a lot from frustration. Plus, if it is allowed by Nintendo, then it is not cheating.

I did also use a lot of save points when I played Banjo-Kazooie on NSO a few years back, as it made the game less frustrating and enjoyable, but where I used them the most was during the Rusty Bucket Bay level and to also avoid losing notes and having to recollect them when I died. I have used the save states feature as well as the rewind feature on the SNES and NES apps several times, and they definitely are convenient. Although not quite cheating, cheats are added by game developers themselves to make the games more fun to play, an example being Conker’s Bad Fur Day, which has multiple cheats that are used to make the game more fun and silly rather than having them be used maliciously. In fact, the cheats in that game are not really cheats because it’s a mostly single player game and they don’t really effect the game.

With older games, I'm not going to be stuck-up about it. Older games were too-often fiendishly difficult, likely to artificially increase the playing time, and some of my favourite games of all time are infuriatingly difficult without the option to save anywhere.

For example, I once completed Commander Keen 5 in hard difficulty without saving mid-level. Had I had not saved mid-level, I would have run out of lives as one level required about 70+ attempts (and it wasn't even the final level, which is also really difficult). Outrageously difficult without saves, not helped by the RNG of some of the enemies, and the weird draw distance, which causes enemies (flying ones especially) to occasionally seemingly emerge from nowhere, and it also causes projectiles fired from inanimate sources to fire out of sync when you return to their proximity, making navigating parts of the level exceptionally difficult (if not virtually impossible). I would never recommend it unless you're a seasoned player and really love the game.

But I have little to no patience for those kinds of experiences today. Mario Wonder already pushed me enough with its final post-game level (which I am yet to complete as I gave up when I was down to my last life after what must have been over 100 attempts).

On a tangentially related topic, the only reason I have ever beaten Zelda II is because the Game & Watch version of that game has the option to max out your lives and stats every time you get a game over.

And even like that it took me like a hundred attempts. I ended up memorizing the route to the final boss.

So, when the tree gives you cheats, make cheatmonade.

I would consider this "cheating", in the sense it mitigates some of the original intended difficulty in the game by utilizing a feature that wasn't originally in it. I'm someone who takes pride in overcoming the challenge of older games as close as possible to how they were intended though.

For what it's worth, the Xbox 360 HD-re-release of B-K doesn't change that aspect of the game, and there's an achievement involved in gathering every single note across all levels.

It's challenging, but not nearly as unfair as some other retro gaming feats.

Games are entertainment. If you get more out of it by using rewind, save states or turbo modes in emulators? More power to you. Go for it

For me it depends. I feel like if you're using it to get past every jump you're not really playing the game anymore. And I've played some old RPGs with fast forward to grind and it's not really the same, you don't feel like you "earnt" the higher levels. And I'd rather the option just not exist

..... but if you're using it to get around old gaming conventions like limited lives, restricted save locations, significant backtracking? I don't see a problem with it. Infact I'd argue you're stupid not to use it in those cases

I think using save states/rewinds are actually pretty legit....

Older games, especially those from the N64 generation, are not exactly rife with checkpoints etc - which I think are much more of a modern QoL nuance.

Honestly it’s totally out to you and how you feel about it that it would be consider cheating, since it’s solo player and all, personally I wouldn’t count it as cheating, its a feature that exist and you’re free to use whenever you wish.

The swimming controls in Banjo Kazooie take some getting used to, but once you understand them you should have a much more manageable time in the likes of Clanker's Cavern.

A button is for slower controlled swimming, B button is for faster swimming that doesn't allow sharp turns.
Holding the R button makes it a lot easier to control your movement underwater.

Good question. It's something I've thought of often myself. I've always avoided suspend points because I've always wanted to play an old game the way you would have actually played it on that system. If you were to play Banjo on an N64, you wouldn't be able to go back to an old suspend point.

I will say it sometimes takes away from my enjoyment of the game, so I end up using it. There's no wrong way to play. It all depends on your style.