Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles 2

@NEStalgia https://i.imgur.com/WcxXOaw.gifv

http://withaterriblefate.com/2018/03/14/the-real-architect-of...

Good read on the philosophy behind 2. Spoilers obviously.

@Trajan Very interesting analysis. Also somewhat cringey. While it's carefully done, it also makes giant reaches to shoehorn entire constructs of the game to fit the viewpoint, which can easily be done with almost anything, and ignores the ongoing Judeo-Christian themes in the story that are literally in the naming itself where convenient just to further fit it into the Plato theory, combined with a long history of Japanese media using interpretations of Western religion, not Western philosophy, in its story telling. But it has that long, drawn out "this is written as a research paper!" format that only a recent "with honors" ivy league philosophy grad could possibly keep a meal down while churning out.

The whole concept of "studying philosophy" by studying "constructs" of other philosophers is amusing. The whole point of philosophers was to reject existing constructs and examine the world through their own observation and try to define it in new terms. That modern "philosophy" in academia involves rigidly studying pre-defined constructs of long dead philosophers and trying to fit the world into them, demonstrating accurate analyses through that template to be declared a student of philosophy is irony and idiocy of hysterical proportions. To master the understanding of the world through a collection of former philosophers writings may make one a scholar, but it ensures one is not a philosopher. If you could be taught how to be a philosopher, there would be no need for philosophy.

So an absurd, overwrought writeup, but, interesting reading all the same

@NEStalgia The Xeno series is a bit different. I wouldn't put it past them. Especially given the whole Nietzsche Xenosaga thing.

My first thought when I saw a preview of the world tree was Yggdrasil though.

@NEStalgia I mean, this is nothing new for Xeno since Xenogears kick-started it all. Tons of elements you see in all the Xenoblade games came from Xenogears in some form. For example, Jin as a character is extremely similar to Krelian from Xenogears, and every main character always had some sort of revelation that makes them a greater hero. Fei discovered he is actually a reincarnation of the only survivor from the disaster at the beginning of the timeline fated with his lover to free "God" from captivity.

Shulk understood how to harness his own Monado and became a god to combat Zanza.

Rex finally got Pyra/Mythra's feelings and unlocked the true power of the Aegis.

It wouldn't be a Xeno game without these elements.

@EvilLucario Sure but the Plato link specifically is beyond a stretch to the point of being a self indulgent exercise. Even in the comments on that link the author himself clarifies he didn't intend to suggest that was the actual model for the story or more than just a small part of it, but simply that it could be interpereted through that lens. I.E. an intellectual walkabout for the sake of it

I don’t want to think that much about a games supposedly philosophical and cultural influences: sometimes it’s obvious, sometimes it’s not. Everything doesn’t have to make sense, as long as the story is moving and speaks to me.

So I’ve played a little bit of Torna (just saved at the first fireplace camp).

First impressions:

• It looks better than XC2
• The twist to the battle system seems enjoyable, but is hopefully more fleshed out later on
• Monolith are masters of designing worlds

I think this will be a fun journey, but I’m glad it’s not as big as the main game.

Have been knee deep in Torna. I got the physical version, felt ripped off that people with DLC got it early, but hey, the wait was worth it.

Off and on binging has got me wishing this was what the base game was in some ways.

I don't miss core crystals. Screw that, wasted too much time opening them. Just give me my drivers and blades, and let me get on with it. The system would have at least been tolerable if they made the system not give you good blades with a %0.01 chance practically at the very least.

I like that you can combo in any way you want, but that going down the named paths gives you better damage. That is how it should have been. I had a few loadouts that were better to use overall in the main game, but didn't have great elemental synergy so I'd get stuck hoping I could extend a combo with a break till I could get level 3 sometimes. However I don't think it was too wise making it so that using any special put an orb on the enemy, only a full 3 element combo should do that. It is too easy to get a full burst because you have 6 elemental orbs on a guy.

Community system is cool, I like it much better than development which felt meaningless. I just farmed salvage spots and used the funds to buy gold/premium cylinders, rise and repeat until max. Then it really only makes stuff cheaper which at that point didn't matter. Community is great because it uses quests to get people to be your friend, and then it gives you a sort of community reputation and now that unlocks other quests. So it feels like you are actually doing something. It is also a GODSEND to be able to look up NPCs in such a convenient way, and see which ones have quests available or active.

I like the crafting situation. While the system of gathering resources in the base game was already much improved over the first game, they just made it that much better. Seeing which spot has what resource type was nice, but also the fact that it is all for just crafting(and some quests) was nice and simple and to the point. Returning drops, even if basic to monsters may seem bad, but it gives you a reason to attack certain monster types without needing to be specific about which exact sub-type. Then being able to have collection points for them for those who REALLY don't want to bother? It is the perfect solution.

I still hate any fights with Malos, so you can check that box, they did good there. Screw the evil monado. Malos is just the worst. I always did just try to orb him up fast and chain attack him from as high HP as possible, so he is so far feeling like a solid boss from the fights alone.

Overall really just a streamlined game, and I appreciate that. So much fluff that it could have had is stripped away and I'm just enjoying pure combat and working on quests.

Story thus far is about what you'd expect. We already knew more or less how things would play out. But it has been fun to see some familiar faces and get to know them better, as well as uncover people like Lora and Haze since they were talked about so much. In its own right the story thus far has been interesting, but more in the way XC1 at the start, a more gritty war with an enemy in a more traditional sense. Got to feel bad for mik and lora.

I was hoping this would be pre-cute nopon talk days, alas. I wanted to see hardcore nopon pirates, alas.

Overall I think it is much better than the base XC2 game. Add on the ability to get the other unique blades in a better way(honestly even through just unique core crystals for each blade) and use the elemental combo system from the expansion and that would have been more than enough....also making the merc system less of a drudge would have helped.

In the end I am very happy with Torna. I may actually new game+ this one.

Playing NG+, I noticed the book Jin is holding magically disappears when Lora reacts. Then its the same book he's writing in?

@hirokun Totally agree with you on the core crystal thing! At first I thought it was a cool idea, but soon I realised it wasn’t as cool as I was hoping it to be.

For those that have beat Torna already, I'm presuming once I go down the elevator to follow Malos that's basically the end of the game (or the end sequence), am I correct? I've been avoiding that since I'm still trying to finish affinity trees, but I'm kind of out of difficult enemies to grind driver/blade combos on so if there's harder enemies somewhere that take longer to go down I might do that. Plus, there's 40 more community members I need for Mythra's tree....right now they don't exist?

Slightly disappointed we don't get to see Judicium AFAIK. I'm guessing we'll see it in a cutscene later, but I figured we'd get to see it before it was Temperantia.

@hirokun Your analysis summed up so many of my thoughts on this game. it's too short to be a full game of course, and I miss the huge number of places to go and explore, but the actual focus of the game is just soo much better in all these ways. They went too far the other way and oversimplified the battle system by far, but so many things in the first game that were too complicated for the sake of being complicated were refined in wonderfully functional, addiction loop driven ways. I never bothered leveling up towns in the main game. They were all 2-3 when they were done. Buy everything in the store to then maybe get the deed to the store as an option (or not, if you somehow don't have the right level for the store to carry all the items needed to get the deed, and nothing will tell you) etc. etc. was a mess.

I have done every quest presented to me so far, even the 75 barrels! Now I'm grinding the affinity trees. Not sure if I'll max them. I'm close, but there's a few that I can't actually find enemies to grind that let me get off the proper mix of driver/blade combos to to get the numbers up on using them. I didn't do that in the main game. I left the trees at bare minimum and the quests half undone. They didn't compel me to complete them, here they do!

Malos isn't so bad. he's a pushover compared to his Gargoyles. Each and every one of them is that darned Core from the main game in Temperantia.

@NEStalgia No, there's more afterwards. The game will warn you when the final battle is anyway and unlike the base game there isn't a point in the story where certain content is impossible.

@Grumblevolcano Ohh cool, maybe I'll head down the elevator tonight rather than trying to max out the affinity fighting tirkins and krabbles over and over. I'm like level 54 now

Is there a significant (ish) remaining chunk or just sort of a sequence of hallways and boss battles, World Tree style?

@Tsurii You guys just made my week. I really did NOT want the game to end yet!

Edit: At least it made me do most of the affinities and find all 75 barrels though!

@NEStalgia Indeed, I want it to be longer, and I know I'm probably already more than half way done with Torna, but its just been wonderful. The combat isn't less complicated unless you mean how easy it is to stack orbs(which it is). I kind of like how swapping between front and backline adds an effect, like topple so that you can use it as if it were another art. Then being able to decide who is passively supporting in the back line decides what passive bonuses you get, like if I want some healing but don't want to swap to Haze to actively heal and lose tons of DPS I can just change to her as back line over Jin. Once I recognized that it helped add another layer of complexity. That is think is why it would be great to get more blades so you can customize, but as it stands it is fine and works well, I just want to explore the backline/frontline thing with more combos.

Also the only reason I upgrade the community stuff is because I like that, but realized it didn't do anything and just finished it in the main game out of principle. In XC1 I absolutely loved seeing colony 6 get rebuilt, inviting people to it, having new quests because of it, and unlocking stuff like shops and extra resource gather points. I hope whatever they do for their next game, monolith do something like colony 6, but make it less obnoxious to upgrade since that was the only real issue with the inferior resource gathering method.

@hirokun Yeah I really like the overall system. But it did get somehow too easy....or leveling became too easy. In the main game I spent all my bonus xp as soon as I got it and it never seemed enough. In this game I virtually never use any of it and still seem overleveled.

"That is think is why it would be great to get more blades so you can customize, but as it stands it is fine and works well, I just want to explore the backline/frontline thing with more combos."

Oh please no, anything but RNG blades with skill trees and merc missions!

Colony 6 I didn't understand that whole mechanic most of the game and when I finally figured it out it was kind of too late to do much with it....so I skipped that whole part of the game really

I never used any bonus xp in the main game or this one.

In terms of blades I mean my system would be, no common blades, and each special blade would be as a result of its own core crystal that is either bought or a reward from a specific quest, no randoms. Also I'd have done away with merc missions as a way to grind the skill tree and instead make it as a passive means to gain resources or maybe a special piece of armor etc. Nothing that forces you to do it like polar bear girl(shudder).

Speaking of new blades and the main game... Is it worth it to generate new blades for your other party members, or does it only mechanically matter for the main character?

@FaeKnight All of them except Tora who is limited to only 3 (2 are story, 1 is side quest). Getting new Blades for the rest is important for both battle (letting them be more useful allies) and exploration (field skills).

Wow! I really like Torna: The Golden Country! I know it’s just an expansion, but it improves on the main game in many ways. It feels like I will have a really good time with this title!