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Topic: What does Nintendo need to learn from previous failures?

Posts 21 to 40 of 40

LzWinky

I would like to see more interactivity between games with amiibo.

Current games: Dragon Quest Builders 2

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Rumorlife

Megas75 wrote:

I don't mind amiibo support, but I heavily dislike locking content behind amiibo. Small things like "Health recovery", "More arrows" are perfectly ok, but for the love of god don't lock things like missions, items, or an entire freaking dungeon behind them, especially with how difficult some of them are to find, especially at a reasonable price.

All content locking arguments aside, maybe if they hid bigger content if they hid it across the whole series that's applicable it would be better. Meaning if they hide the same Zelda dungeon behind any LoZ related Amiibo, then that's a lot less ridiculous than saying "to get this specific dungeon, you need Ganondorf and it only works with Ganondorf" and then they do 1 for each Amiibo. But if it would work universally with Link, Toon Link, Zelda, Ganon, Sheik, or Wolf Link, then it's more accessible. So if you tapped any one of those, you'd unlock the secret dungeon. Although the downside to that is it evens the playing field in terms of the figure value itself to some I'm sure. If they all do the same thing then the only thing special about them is the actual figure. But they can still do the universal thing, and have other games be unique like the Mario Kart or Mario Maker costumes. But that at least solves the problem of "I can't find that specific amiibo" well, if you want that figure then you gotta wait, but if you just want the content and a related figure, then you can probably find Zelda or Toon Link with ease.
The example works with any series. It doesn't have to be a Zelda dungeon if that sounds disgusting. It can be the Super Mario series, Animal Crossing, Kirby or Splatoon, or even one that doesn't exist yet.

Edited on by Rumorlife

Rumorlife

FragRed

I was just looking at Nintendo's E3 2005 conference (https://youtu.be/anRy0JeHeCY) when the Wii was revealed under the codename "revolution". I find it fascinating just how different a company Nintendo has become is the last decade and how different their target fan base is.

Nintendo really needs to take a good long look at their past and really try and reconnect with that audience when it comes to the NX reveal.

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iKhan

FragRed wrote:

I was just looking at Nintendo's E3 2005 conference (https://youtu.be/anRy0JeHeCY) when the Wii was revealed under the codename "revolution". I find it fascinating just how different a company Nintendo has become is the last decade and how different their target fan base is.

Nintendo really needs to take a good long look at their past and really try and reconnect with that audience when it comes to the NX reveal.

They really do. One of the reasons the Wii was so successful out of the gate was that the system was still heavily marketed to teens and young adults amongst the broader advertising. Nintendo realized that those groups were the early adopters who could really spread the hype and excitement around.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Bass_X0

What about games that you can only use amiibo with?

Edgey, Gumshoe, Godot, Sissel, Larry, then Mia, Franziska, Maggie, Kay and Lynne.

I'm throwing my money at the screen but nothing happens!

BlueSkies

WiiU:
-You have to have a graphical advantage
-You have to have a robust online infrastructure and exclusive online titles w/ voice chat options on launch day
-You need Western exclusives (especially first person shooters)
-No touch screens or controllers that cost $150 period
-Use name branding that makes sense like NS7
-Nintendo needs Western 2nd parties again
-The obvious evolution from the Wii is the best answer for the controller-- a 3D tracking, 1:1 controller

Edited on by BlueSkies

BlueSkies

Luna_110

I think that having a more "normal" control and an easier architecture to port third party games is a must. A lot of companies shied away from the Wii U due to how hard it was to code for it (plus its lack of power).

With normal control I mean something with the standard buttons MS & Sony's controls have, just scrap the Wiimotes altogether and leave the game pad as an optional controller.

I have a chronic lack of time, for everything.

Now playing: Okami HD, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

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erv

That all can be solved with dancing humanoid stripper bananas.

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PlayStation: genetic-eternal

Nintendo Network ID: genet1c

SuperPaperLuigi

Super Paper Mario...

Problem: collecting all Catch Cards and Recipes is an arduous grind. Early recipe lists too well hidden and not given to the player early enough. Not a strongly enough defined branching structure to the recipe progression, and format of the recipe lists is muddled and confusing. Not enough inventory space or direct routes through the game to let the player complete collect tasks simultaneously (i.e. ferrying recipe ingredients an arduous grind. Having to stock up on blank Catch Cards and make special runs to catch characters with Catch Cards is arduous, laborious, too time-consuming and makes for much much too much backtracking and repetition (due to having to replay the levels repeatedly to 100% the recipes and Catch Cards)

Stuff I think would have made it a much better game:

Aim to let the player 100% recipes and Catch Cards before the end of the main story path.

Give the player the recipe lists as early as possible and in order of difficulty so that they can be encouraged to start using the cooking/crafting function much earlier. Start them off small and simple, progressing (with future recipes) on a much gentler difficulty curve.

Player's inventory space is so limited, let the player store ingredients and cooked food items in the cook's restaurant, so they're ready and available to combine with each other.

Give (more or lesss) every NPC a Catch Card trading deck and give the player a trading deck separate to the main inventory.

Give the player the option to pay very large numbers of coins to open up direct routes to the various areas with shops. Set the price to open the routes (pipes) so as to direct the order in which the player is most likely to open them and have the appropriate ingredients for a smoother learning curve accessible via those routes.

Have a delivery service where you can drop off ingredients to be sent to the restaurant where you store your ingredients (to free up inventory space).

To encourage use of items in combat without raising the combat difficulty level,make the weapon items a little cheaper and have them produce twice the number of coins when used against enemies.

Edit: improve/design the economy so that crafting/cooking can be used to make funds to open new routs to ingredients for more advanced recipes. This won't break the core game if inventory space is still limited, but give more opportunities for re-stocking in the field (i.e. more item drops and extra experience points for use of items rather than melee combat).


Edit: Also, if NX is capable of stereoscopic 3D make light gun / pointer games that exploit the depth (3DS FPS on a 2D screen has no tactile sense of depth.) But I guess that's obvious right?

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

"I try to put good out into the world, that way I can believe it's out there". --CKN

CM30

What lessons should they learn? Well first off, and not referring to just one console:

Marketing isn't bad. Seriously, marketing your products is how people learn they exist, and that means spending money on things like commercials, ads, social media, real world campaigns, etc. Nintendo in the last few generations or so seems to have become terrified of doing this, decided that spending any money at all on brand awareness was a bad thing (especially in the UK) and hence watched Microsoft and Sony's heavily advertised systems mostly eat them for lunch. So spend some of that 'war chest' on getting the word out.

As well as:

Don't rely on gimmicks. Not every game needs a gimmick, or the current console's tech forced into it. Mario & Luigi is the best example here, since both Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team had their consoles gimmicks (touch screen and microphone, gyroscope) put in mandatory mini games and sections just because they could have them, not because they made the games any better. As did Mario Galaxy with Manta Surfing, Ball Rolling, Bubble Blowing and Fluzzard. Or Donkey Kong Country Returns and its 'shake to roll' stuff.

Lesson From the 3DS and Wii U: Good naming is paramount. Good console names help people understand what's a new system and what isn't. But Nintendo forgot this, so we got the 3DS, the Wii U, the 2DS, the New Nintendo 3DS and heck, the Wii Mini as well. Average Joe doesn't know one of those things from the other, let alone which ones can run which games. What's the difference between a new Nintendo 3DS and a New Nintendo 3DS? How about between a 2DS and a 3DS? Lesson to learn here is to name your consoles clearly. Give each one a new name, and stop trying to be 'clever' with crap like the 'New Nintendo 3DS'.

(Though to be fair, this is a massive problem with the industry as a whole at the moment. Nintendo releases Star Fox Zero with a confusing name, Microsoft's new Xbox console was the 'Xbox One' and then Battlefield gets a new game called 'Battlefield One'. How stupid are the marketing guys here?)

Lesson From the Wii (and Wii U): Droughts are bad, so try and make sure you have a game to fill those empty spots in the year. Don't just do what they're doing now (and did in the last days of the Wii) where the console is basically left out to die.

Lesson From 2015's games: Don't rush games. Remember, as Miyamoto said, a delayed game is eventually good but a rushed one might be bad forever. There is no excuse for stuff like Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival or Mario Tennis Ultra Smash. There's also no excuse for doing what was done with Mario & Luigi Paper Jam where the testers apparently did sod all to make sure it wasn't glitched to hell. So many people had that game freeze or softlock on them, and eventually the speedrunners broke it so much the record is down from 35 hours to less than 1 hour. After about 3 months work.

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GrailUK

I think Nintendo have been quite upfront with what they have learned.

  • Their IP needs to feature more in public mindshare and not rest on the laurels of the usual suspects.
  • Their software output needs to be more profitable and productive in a more meaningful way.

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

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FragRed

How about allow people to post YouTube videos of Nintendo's first and second party games as well as do live streams without having to sign up to a partnership programme. Get the big YouTube gamers on board and send them free copies of the games early to get them promoted as much as possible. It helps for big YouTube gamers, no matter how much we hate them, to publicise Nintendo games.

Perhaps also invest into opening more western studios or acquiring one or two whom can produce games to help fill out the library especially during those likely droughts, especially if the games are the kind that appeal to the western audiences.

ENGAGE VG: www.engagevg.com

MarcelRguez

@GrailUK Pretty much. As long as they can manage to correct these two things, they'll manage. If they can sell a significant number of consoles by the strength of their IPs alone, third-party studios will eventually support the console.

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

skywake

@FragRed
I personally think that the youtube issue is a bit overstated. It'd obviously be better if Nintendo's policy was a bit more relaxed but I don't think it hurts them as much as the hype suggests. Really the "free advertising" platforms like youtube give is still advertising in a sense. And as advertising it mostly helps make people aware of content that they otherwise wouldn't have known about.

For big AAA titles including a lot of Nintendo's strongest IP? For the most part the people who would be interested know about it even without advertising. For the biggest titles official trailers for them can go viral. Like the Pokemon Sun/Moon trailers or pretty much anything that was related to Splatoon and Smash. I don't think having youtubers cover those games would have changed much.

I'm not saying that their approach to Youtube doesn't hurt them. I think that for games like Mario Maker in particular Youtube could have really pushed it to another level. I just think that for Nintendo's content in general there's enough exposure even without Youtubers. Its the indies that need that sort of coverage more than companies like Nintendo.

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SuperPaperLuigi

I guess if you flip the question, and ask what they could learn from their biggest success, I'd say keep developing for the mainstream. So what comes next...

...Simple (for the user), accessible, enthralling, amazing...VR.

Something anyone and everyone can pick up and instantly understand. I'd say VR Sports since it already has mind-share/brand-recognition etc. in the mainstream (and sports are almost instantly recognisable and understandable by most people)...yes it's the Nintendo Sports you know and love, but this time...it's in VR.

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

"I try to put good out into the world, that way I can believe it's out there". --CKN

puNINTENDed

I'll give you one reason and what I think is the biggest reason as to why the Wii U didn't do so well. The lack of online multiplayer functionality, especially at launch. Nintendo games need more online multiplayer options instead of just local multiplayer.

puNINTENDed

DefHalan

@puNINTENDed They do have Online Multiplayer... I am guessing you mean they need more software that supports Online Multiplayer, but the way your post is phrased makes it sounds like you think they don't have Online Multiplayer at all.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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iKhan

Luna_110 wrote:

I think that having a more "normal" control and an easier architecture to port third party games is a must. A lot of companies shied away from the Wii U due to how hard it was to code for it (plus its lack of power).

With normal control I mean something with the standard buttons MS & Sony's controls have, just scrap the Wiimotes altogether and leave the game pad as an optional controller.

I don't think Nintendo will ever scrap the Wii Remote, or at least not their design. To put it simply, that's one of the easiest ways to make games accessible to broader audiences, be it kids or unfamiliar adults. And that is something that is important to the company, even if it isn't their No. 1 goal anymore.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

DefHalan

iKhan wrote:

Luna_110 wrote:

I think that having a more "normal" control and an easier architecture to port third party games is a must. A lot of companies shied away from the Wii U due to how hard it was to code for it (plus its lack of power).

With normal control I mean something with the standard buttons MS & Sony's controls have, just scrap the Wiimotes altogether and leave the game pad as an optional controller.

I don't think Nintendo will ever scrap the Wii Remote, or at least not their design. To put it simply, that's one of the easiest ways to make games accessible to broader audiences, be it kids or unfamiliar adults. And that is something that is important to the company, even if it isn't their No. 1 goal anymore.

They can still provide the simplistic use of a Wii Remote, with having the same number of buttons on the controllers. I had an idea where basically you don't have a nunchuck, just two Wii Remotes. Each Wii Remote then has a tringger and a button above the Trigger. (basically the R1 or Bummper Button) Then on the top you have an Analog Stick and a + D-Pad. The + D-Pad buttons could act as ABXY also. So with two Remotes, you have Two analog Sticks, a D-Pad, 4 face buttons, Two Shoulder Buttons, and Two Triggers. Basically equaling a "Traditional" Controller, but with extra motion and you could even add extra Buttons. Both Wii Remotes could have a Start and Select Button, and they would always keep 1/2 as the bottom. It could remain approachable and still have enough buttons for all major titles. The only tough thing would be instructions, how do you tell which Wii Remote (Right or Left) a certain action is tied to. Guess you could just add R/L before the button on screen maybe.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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