Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH
People always cite Steam Deck sales here but you kinda have to remember that Steam Deck is a product with a very restricted level of retail availability. I mean, if I want a Steam Deck OLED I'd have to buy through a reseller, have it shipped from overseas and I'm certainly spending comfortably over $1000AU. It's also a gen-1 product with all the clunk that goes along with that. Plus it's a device built around convincing people that gaming on Linux is a thing. No doubt it's a compelling product and having Steam behind it certainly gives it some weight but.... it's pushing against the current

I think with the position Microsoft finds themselves in between XBox not doing particularly well ATM, them having a lot of software muscle behind them and a lot of marketing weight with normies. Strong retailer relationships. "XBox OS" being wider than just XBoxes is the play. Again, I don't know if when Microsoft inevitably do this it goes down as well as like the Zune or something but still. It's the play. And I think the hardware is only going to make that product more and more compelling as the years go on

And you know, Switch for most of its life had over half of all console sales. Some of that is certainly just Switch being a hit and Nintendo's IP in general. But I think a lot of it is just that people like powerful portable gaming devices. And think that level of power is largely good enough most of the time. I think that market only grows bigger over time so..... I wouldn't say the portable market generally is niche. There's space for more than one product here, portable PCs seem to have the strongest hand ATM

There's almost no way Switch 2 will take off as well as Switch did - Switch came during a real lull in handheld and Nintendo hardware, few people cared for the N3DS, Wii U or Vita, but now the market has been pretty well satiated by Switch. Switch 2 will be welcomed, but I doubt it will catch fire in quite the same way, not unless the launch year software is irresistible. And if it doesn't soar, modern culture is to call anything that doesn't break records a flop. So a competitor could see it as a ripe time to spice up the market and take some share.

Just make Mario Kart 9 a banger that blows MK8D out the water and you'll be fine though, N.

Yeah, the Switch was the first to market with the successful hybrid model. You can only be first once. The hybrid model won't be AS novel, but thats's fine. Just give us good games, more power (so we can play modern games), and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, give us ANALOG TRIGGERS for racing games & throttle control.

The fact that Nintendo never made an official controllers with analog triggers is appalling, and it crippled the market for racing games for the whole Switch generation. If you can make steering wheels, and and other BS accessories (thigh strap for Switch Sports), you can make a controller with analog triggers.🤣

@gcunit
I agree with that. Switch 2 won't reach the heights of Switch, that's for sure. But it'll still comfortably reach 100m+. Switch will break the PS2 record though. And that's probably never gonna be touched again afterward.

@skywake
There's definitely room in the handheld market, I just don't ever see handheld PCs, of any kind, Steamdeck or not, being the ones to capture it.

Steamdeck would do better if it had full availability, but that hasn't really helped the other PC handhelds despite listings on Amazon. I don't think it would make that much of a difference. Reason devices like this have limited availability is because they know demand is low, so they'd rather not give up that retailer cut on the few sales they do get.

I think Linux is a selling point. SteamOS is so much simpler to use than Windows. It feels like a dedicated console rather than a PC. I know a lot of ppl who bought a Deck specifically because it's simplified like a console, and would never dream of buying a full Windows handheld.

But we'll see. I don't expect anything to change in the next 10 years. I expect Switch 2 to come and go, sell about 100-120m, with Steamdeck being followed by Steamdeck 2 and Steamdeck 3, capping out at around 5-10m. I see Windows handhelds continuing to remain niche without ever really breaking further ground. And Xbox, I see them simply offering streaming as an option, and ignoring the handheld market (though I agree that would be the play, but I have no faith in them pursuing it).

In the end it doesn't really matter. I'm going to continue to use Switch and Deck, or Switch 2 and Deck 2, or whatever combination is currently available. Unless MS integrated KB/M support on a system level and then incorporated gyro in a handheld, and mapping mouse to gyro on a system level, I have no interest in any handheld they might produce anyways.

@skywake
Btw, did you dive into Steamdeck and/or PC handhelds? If not, I highly recommend Steamdeck OLED. It's the perfect compliment to Switch OLED.

Get these Mobapad M6 HD joycon and a Switch OLED to use them with, get a 2TB 2230 NVMe and a Steamdeck OLED to use it with, get 1.5 TB microSD cards for each of them, and you're officially set with the single greatest duo of video game hardware conceived by man.

Of course, you gotta download Emudeck and use it to install Emulation Station on the Deck, and throw a few hundred gigs of your favorite games on there. I loaded it with NES, SNES, Genesis, GBA, N64, a half dozen PSP games I'll actually play and about a dozen GameCube and Wii games I'll actually play. Looking at my folder of 200 GC/Wii games I was like nah, I'm not gonna play 90% of these. Not gonna waste the space on em. Let's just pick the 10 best games that also work well on Dolphin in handheld mode (so no Metroid Other M, setting controls for that is a serious pain). But stuff like DKC Returns, Zelda Windwaker, Zelda Twilight Princess, Sin & Punishment 2 (works surprisingly well with gyro active for the Wiimote aiming), Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Super Paper Mario (TTYD is coming to Switch, and Skyward Sword is on Switch, as is Mario Galaxy, stuff like that can be safely omitted).

Having 2 handhelds with OLED screens and gyro aiming, that covers Xbox, PS and Nintendo exclusives and 90% of multiplats (some aren't compatible through Proton, or are exclusive to Epic Game Store or Ubisoft launcher- stuff like Trials Rising, Kingdom Hearts games, Alan Wake 2, etc) just feels like peak efficiency. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled now but, not having portability or gyro aiming for a game I buy, that's a dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned.

After acclimating to the battery life of Switch OLED and Steamdeck OLED, I can't even imagine trying to play on those Windows handhelds where AAA games get 60-70 minutes. The AyaNeo Kun solves this with a 75 Whr battery, but at the cost of weighing nearly 1,000 grams. For comparison, Steamdeck is 670 grams, Steamdeck OLED is 640 grams, and Switch OLED is 400 grams. Deck OLED is about as heavy as I can handle without it feeling too heavy. We need a Win handheld with a 75 Whr battery and which weighs under 650 grams. Seems like the holy grail of Win handhelds atm. It would be nice to have one that played Trials Rising and all the games Deck can't. Side loading Windows off a microSD could be an option, if they ever perfect the drivers.

Once Switch 2 releases though, I'm hoping it picks up ports of the games Deck can't run. Like Prince of Persia on Switch is fantastic, and extremely fortunate given its not sold on Steam and must be ran via Ubisoft launcher. Switch 2, hopefully it gets native ports of all the KH games, Alan Wake 2, the next Trials game, etc.

@JaxonH
You're probably right but I think there's still a fair chance that something else comes along that steals some of the market Switch has found. I mean we brought up the PS2's record breaking sales here, where did those sales go? They didn't disappear. The next generation there were more sales it's just Sony was down ~70mill while Nintendo gained ~80mill and MS ~60mill

I don't think you move Switch tier numbers and not have some competitor come out with something that reclaims some of that market. I mean sure, Swtich 2 probably hits around 100mill. But where did those other ~50mill go in that prediction? And at this stage I think this new category of "portable PCs" will be the way its done

Also yes, you're right about "Linux" being a selling point. But that's not because it's Linux. I love that Linux gaming is taking off don't get me wrong, I used Linux on my main PC from like 2007-2010 and I still regularly tinker around with little Linux boxes. But compatibility is still a barrier. The only reason they've got it to work is that they've cleverly recognised that the biggest barrier to PC gaming is optics. People are scared of it because it's "complicated". Throw up a nice dash and get the marketing right? Valve has shown you can overcome that. Someone else will do the same and, frankly, Microsoft is really the only other player who can do it

I don't have a huge amount of confidence that Microsoft will stick the landing. If they don't I think Switch 2 probably gets a clear run again and maybe their competition is a portable from someone else. But in terms of risk for Switch 2? I think PC portables pose the greatest risk. Not that they'll sink it but.... risk in a similar way to Nintendo and Microsoft were risks for the PS3. I don't think a hypothetical "Xbox Go" overtakes Switch 2 but.... I could see it stealing 20-30mill

@JaxonH
RE: What hardware I have/intend to get for this next "cycle". I think Switch 2 is central, 4K output with HDR basically means that I'd have no reason to get pretty much any lighter games on PC anymore. I'll still have my desktop which I need for work and I'll still do the old hardware shuffle as I upgrade that over time. Which is 4060Ti now (i.e. 2x the compute of the PS5) so plenty enough power and I'll still probably lean towards it for larger titles as well as my backlog. And of course I spend a lot of gaming time playing strategy games and sims so, PC is the way to go for those. But I think Switch 2 when it comes out steals a lot of my attention. I mean, Switch already does because it's one button to start but still. Once you've seen 4K with HDR at relatively high framerates it's hard to go back to 720p SDR sub 30fps.... Switch 2 will close that gap

On the portable side? I have a laptop right now that I rarely use, I have little intention of getting a new one because this laptop is good enough for playing BluRay rips and typing which is all I do on it. I also have an older Android tablet which I got years ago for "Netflix in bed on a lazy Sunday morning" but could easily just not exist. If I want portable I use my phone if I want a larger screen I take my laptop. But really, I honestly don't think I bother buying a laptop or a tablet again. If I was to get a new device of that size it's going to be a portable gaming PC. If I was to grab one right now? Due to availability it'd probably be the ROG Ally. But I think I want to see this segment mature a bit

But for me, I like even more portable devices. The RG35XX+I got recently, does emulation of everything upto around N64/PS/DC/DS tier. Which means I can throw on all my old SNES/GB/MS ROMs on there as well as some stuff like Cave Story and even some old DOS games. Of course, it'd be nice if it could also do GC/Wii/3DS and the lack of a touch screen/analogue sticks does limit it a tad. But at this point in time it's my go-to portable gaming device. Been playing a fair bit of Pokemon Pinball, did a run through of Crystal but also Donkey Kong Country, Advance Wars, Mario Kart DS (calm down, I own them all in some form). For me this is one of the more exciting categories but.... it's super niche and, frankly, a tad sketchy and will never go mainstream

Switch 2 again though, going to chew up a lot of that portable gaming space

@skywake
I love that Deck OLED is now my default emulator for everything up through GameCube and Wii. But I've seen those handhelds for emulating up through N64 and they look super convenient. I just like the gyro aiming integrated through Steam Input so Deck is especially favorable in that regard

I just sent my brand new Switch OLED (Splatoon 3 special edition) off to get a mod-chip installed. I like the Emuiibo app which you can pull up in game to scan in any amiibo digitally. I own every amiibo so I can dump all mine. Plus mod managers and sys-clk to overclock. Will be able to smooth out performance for most games like Monster Hunter Stories 2. That'll become 720p 60fps locked. And Persona 5 Royal even has a resolution mod that increases it to 720p handheld and doesn't even require overclocking. Which makes me wonder, why didn't the devs do it in the release? It boggles my mind.

In any case, I already own every game digitally, but being able to access any amiibo through a menu, and smoothing out performance in handheld to 720p with locked 30 or 60 in games that struggle a bit or have an uncapped framerate, that alone makes it worthwhile. Plus Retroarch to emulate NES, SNES, N64, GB, GBA, Genesis, and I'm not sure about GC/Wii but if it can handle it, those too. If not, I have Deck. And ya know, custom themes and menu layouts and save backups and save editing... all that jazz is appreciated too.

I modded my 3DS back in the day, but got lazy with Switch and didn't have the energy to bother. Plus I wanted the OLED hacked, and you need a modchip for those. So I waited until the end of the generation so all the homebrew could mature, and being the final year of Switch, I decided it's time to move forward with the modchip for Switch OLED.

If overclocking can fix Trials Rising in handheld mode, I'm gonna be so happy. Cause it won't play on Deck. And just ironing out small issues in the Trails of Cold Steel games, Dragon Quest Builders 2, Zelda BotW, Xenoblade 1 and 2 (wonder if I can get handheld res up to 720p? OC may not do it if the game is capped to a lower res, but perhaps there's a mod to raise the cap like with Persona 5 Royal)... it's not gonna magically fix games that have major issues. But small framerate issues, dynamic res drops, uncapped framerates... those are the games it can push to 720p 30 locked or 720p 60 locked. And OLED has enough battery life for it to still have respectable playtime even after being OC.

Only $120 for the modchip and labor installing, plus loading it up with apps, including shipping round trip. I don't think that's bad at all. To me, that's worth the price to improve performance in tons of games and have digital amiibo in a menu and save backups and game backups, etc.

For some reason i just wanna say that i love my switch, and cant wait til switch 2 releases!

@JaxonH The first two Xenoblade games vary pretty significantly in terms of their undocked display resolution, so I don't see what the point of a cap would be. It's already adaptive.

Halfway tempted to repurchase MHS2 on Deck just to experience it without the stuttering and dips. Apparently it runs very well with a 45fps cap.

@Ralizah
It does. Though personally I started using a 40fps cap which feels very close to 60, then with the OLED I started using 36fps with 72 hz refresh rate, which feels identical to 40. Amazing what a difference 6 frames makes with a proper refresh rate. Yet the battery life is essentially as good as 30. Highly recommend, proud member of the 36fps master race 😀

I look forward to playing on my chipped Switch OLED though, where I have a 20 hr save file. My Steam save file is only 5 hrs or so.

@DennisNOR Can't remember if it was last night or this morning, but sometime recently I had pretty much the same thought, like I just wanted to get online and declare my love for Switch only gets stronger with each passing year.

Speaking of passing years (and this may have had something to do with the above), but I was talking to a family member (generation younger than me) yesterday about Switch and Smash Bros. and I put my Smash game card in my Switch to show them the game. In doing so, it threw up the Save Data Cloud check screen and I noticed my last save was dated 2019. How the Reggie-Fils-Aime have I not played Smash for 4 years!?! And where the Miyamoto have those 4 years gone?!?

I also think its tragic how little I've played Smash Bros. And I'm sure I put at least 70 hours into it, but that's actually not enough. Even ignoring that Melee was my most played game ever even before Brawl came out, there's so much to that game that I just want to play so much more.

I think a combination of other games and my complete lack of interest in Smash online and difficulties in playing local multiplayer in recent years really took away a lot of time I could've spent on it.

@gcunit
I feel that too. I think Deck OLED not only made me fall in love with that device, but it also reinvigorated my appreciation for Switch OLED, with its much lighter weight and tabletop mode with detachable controllers and HD rumble. But having proper joycon was the missing link. Now that my Switch feels as comfy as Deck in hand while retaining all the functionality I've grown accustomed to, I've felt a renewed interest in the system.

Hence why I sent an OLED off to get chipped. Not for piracy- I already own every game digitally. There's literally nothing to gain in that respect. But edging out peak performance on the system I love so much, that's the goal. Cause really, that's the only downside to Switch OLED for me now. It has an OLED screen, good kickstand, I have tons of storage now, proper joycon... the only negative is performance in some games. If chipping can resolve that one final issue, then so be it. And Switch 2 may make a chipped Switch obsolete if it's BC and irons out uncapped framerates and maxes res, but even so, it likely won't have an OLED screen, and there's no guarantee it'll be BC with games or joycon, and it's not here yet. There's still time to enjoy Switch min-maxed to its full capabilities.

I look at my friends list and see only 1 other person played Prince of Persia demo, and none played the full game, and I think what are you guys even doing!!! This game is the pinnacle of the Switch experience! This here is what it's all about!

Oh well. I'm still gettin it in on Switch OLED, and can only continue to repeat how great of an experience it is playing top-shelf games like Prince of Persia with M6 HD joycon and soon, a modchip to eek out stable framerates and resolution for those borderline games. If you can spend it, I say spend it. The experience is worth it.

Same, and after reading the essays back and forth between @JaxonH and @skywake , I can't help but feel that we sometimes lose sight of why the Switch kicks so much butt: It's simple, and it just works.

And with the Switch 2 or whatever it's gonna be called, I really hope Nintendo doesn't lose the essence of what their stuff has always been: simple and fun. (Sometimes their stuff is so simple that it's actually kind of complex... but you guys know what I mean lol)

Also, my moonshot of hoping they go back to some kind of dual-screen design when it's in handheld mode.

@JaxonH You need me on your friends list bruh! Love Prince of Persia so far. Though strangely this weekend I've had a massive hankering for some Yoshi so I've been playing Crafted World, but PoP is most definitely in the rotation.

PS. Srs... SW-3124-5612-5724

Interesting reading about your modchip pursuit - fingers crossed you get a hassle free experience and it provides those extra boosts you're hoping for. You're braver than I.

BTW, your new controllers look sweet. I would be tempted, but I am a bit of a Nintendo purist and have always loved the joy-con design. The asymmetrical shape of yours just doesn't quite sit right with me. I don't doubt they're ace though and might still pick some up some day. Nice find - your valiant search for the perfect controllers has paid off so I'm chuffed for you.

@rallydefault
To be fair, the simplicity (and portability) of the Switch is why most of my gaming time outside of stuff like Civ is on Switch. It's just one button boot and I can just pick it up and carry on from where I was. I have a pile of indie games on Steam I'll never touch because if I want something that light it's just easier to go for the Switch Pro Controller

But even so, when I go back to the Switch after playing a bit on my PC and seeing what my OLED can do? You just boot up the thing and see the UI in all it's 720p glory and.... yeah.... it's quite a downgrade. I still go back to it because of the convenience and in portable mode if you pick your titles it's still good tier. But yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to Switch 2

I am enthusiastic about Switch 2 not because I hate the Switch. I'm enthusiastic because I love Switch as a concept and just want to see it continue to improve

@gcunit
Sent. Be nice to see someone else playing this gem for a change and not just me. You've restored my faith in Switch gamers 😎

Btw, I've largely enjoyed the official joycon, though I did get a dpad mod, HALL Effect analogs and metal latches. But these feel like they should be the official joycon. First 3rd party pair that has every last bit of functionality and more, finally surpassing the official joycon and raising the bar.

Curious what you mean about asymmetrical, given the official joycon are also assymetrical? I've found it perfect as your thumb naturally rests on the face buttons. Also, I swapped the left analog with their M9 HD pro controller which has fatter analogs, so both joycon and that pro controller have a fatter grey analog on the left for movement (perfect since your thumb rests on it) and smaller white analog for camera (perfect because the smaller concave dome grips more for fine movements).

I do hope everything goes well with the mod. I think it will. But it does mean investing quite a bit of time into learning how to do things. And I've grown lazy over the years. I just want overclocking, pretty much. And dumping all digital games to use with the flashcart for posterity. I sent a spare Switch OLED so no risk to my main system. And being a paid service from someone who does it for a living I'm pretty confident they know what they're doing. So much easier with a chip, no worries about losing the soft mod with an update and stuff like that. I remember the pain of keeping 3DS files up to date to work with new system updates.

@skywake
I am enthusiastic about Switch 2 not because I hate the Switch. I'm enthusiastic because I love Switch as a concept and just want to see it continue to improve

This pretty much. Most of us love Switch, and it's specifically because of how much we love the system we're especially excited to see what's next. It's not an "I'm over Switch, lemme see what's next", it's an "I love Switch, can't wait to see what's next!". And trust me, once it's here, everyone else will be excited too.

With that mig switch cart out in the wild now is the 2nd hand switch game market in trouble as how can you tell if N will ban you online for playing a 2nd game that someone has already cloned ?

@skywake
I still play WoW on my PC, but my Switch was like 90% of my gaming this generation.

I had a friend over the other day, and he was like: Why is your TV stand empty? Where's your PS5/Xbox?

And I was like: Dude, I've been a father for a few years now. I own a Switch if I want to game, and if I didn't own a Switch, I probably wouldn't get to game nearly as much as I do.

The portability and snappy UI of the Switch that just gets me right into and out of the games has allowed me to play sooooo much more than a traditional console would have the last few years. When I do get a few minutes after my daughter goes to bed and I can dock it and play on my TV, it's like luxury mode lol

Nintendo has (almost) always designed their stuff for all sorts of people, and the Switch is the epitome of that. I hope they don't try to start chasing power or go more of a Steamdeck direction. Keep the Switch simple and fun.