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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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Octane

To be fair, this is the first time a Nintendo Switch gets consistent quality indie titles too. There were hardly any quality games on the Wii shop. And the Wii U missed out on so many good indie games, no wonder the VC titles topped the weekly charts.

Octane

Harmonie

If an Indie is less interesting than a Virtual Console title I already own a few times over, than I don't think that's Nintendo's problem.

I don't like this idea of depriving us all of VC because it might help Indies sell more. There's got to be some other way. In a market where Sony and Microsoft are able to support Indies and the release of their own kinds of "VC", I don't understand where the problem is.

Harmonie

Nintendo Network ID: WoodwindsRock

Haruki_NLI

@Harmonie Well on Sony's end the "VC" is so poor quality and hilarious infrequent it may as well not exist, so no issue there.

And MS is pushing towards services exclusively so everyone is along for the ride regardless.

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IceClimbers

@Harmonie It has nothing to do with being less interesting. There's many interesting indie games that can get skipped in favor of a VC title solely because the latter had Mario or Zelda in the name.

Also, Sony and Microsoft's classics don't have issues coexisting with indies the same way their current titles don't have an issue existing alongside big 3rd party titles. Nintendo's systems typically have way different purchasing trends - third party games get completely stiffled by Nintendo's own titles. This is true of their legacy content vs indies as well.

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SLIGEACH_EIRE

I'm sure the lack of VC on Switch has played some sort of role in Indie developers success, how much so is debatable. But another factor is that the Indie scene has grown considerably since the Wii.

The Wii was limited in technology and a tiny amount of memory space. Wii U was powerful enough for most but wasn't easy to develop for and was a failure. The Switch has plenty of power, only a few Indies don't find it enough, it's a breeze to develop for and it's doing well. And one last thing, I remember on Wii U, developers had to sell a certain quantity before they got paid any money. Nintendo have improved terms and relations with Indies. Sorry, no, one more last thing, Nintendo have gone after Indies in the last number of years. They can't get the big 3rd party support so they went down this avenue.

There's no reason why you can't have both but Nintendo haven't given 3rd parties all that they want. But I've said it before that if I was given a choice between Indies or 3rd parties, I'd choose the latter all the time. When I hear another Indie game is coming to the Switch, I immediately think there's a good chance it'll be one or a combination of; 2D, pixelated, sidescrolling, platformer.

There have been some truly excellent Indie games but you don't buy an expensive supercar to drive at 30mph when it's capable of so much more. I'm sure there are a lot better analogies but I'm tired and I'm going to sleep.

SLIGEACH_EIRE

Nintendo Network ID: SLIGEACH_EIRE

MFD

@IceClimbers "Nintendo's systems typically have way different purchasing trends - third party games get completely stiffled by Nintendo's own titles. This is true of their legacy content vs indies as well."

But that can't be the case anymore, otherwise the sales would have been abysmal for games like Dragonball Xenoverse 2. Oh wait, I forgot that portability sells anything, carry on.

@darkfenrir He is right about one thing though, there are a metric TON of any combination of side-scrolling 2D indie platformer games on Switch. I'm surprised over saturation hasn't set in yet.

Edited on by MFD

MFD

Haruki_NLI

@SLIGEACH_EIRE On Wii you had to earn enough first before payment. There was also the 40MB limit on sizes.

On Wii U, both were removed.

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rallydefault

@SLIGEACH_EIRE
I used to be like you in how I thought of indies, especially with the last thing you said: when I heard of a new indie game, I used to assume it was yet another pixelated platformer.

Hrm...it's tough, though. 'Cuz yea, many times they ARE pixelated platformers!

But by god, these games have heart. And in the last 2ish years I've slowly learned that they have more heart than many of these bloated 3rd party sequels that are being shoved down our throats on other platforms.

I think my change of heart started when I got Stardew Valley on PC when it first launched. I was totally anti-indie all through the previous generation and with my Wii U; didn't even buy Shovel Knight. But I started dabbling on PC last year, LOVED stuff like Stardew and the Steamworld games, and now I'm full-in with the offerings on the Switch. Celeste was one of my favorite games in the last few years, and I still kick myself for waiting so long to buy Shovel Knight. Sina Mora is a blast, and I've put 40ish hours into Graceful Explosion Machine. In a way, indies are kind of becoming mainstream to me. It's like they're picking up where the larger 3rd-party games are starting to lose sight of what gaming is, at least to me.

Don't get me wrong: I'm still gonna go hog wild for when the next big Tomb Raider game and Last of Us come out. But I've seriously soured on a lot of the big series. Got burned by the Division, Destiny, Assassin's Creed, CoD, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars... a lot of those games aren't even fun to play anymore. They're just time commitments slicked over with movie-quality cutscenes. And don't even get me started on the unbridled greed behind loot boxes.

Indies seem to get that video games are about GAMING: ya know, deriving fun from tight controls and addictive gameplay hooks. For example, controlling Celeste with just 2 or 3 tight and responsive moves was infinitely more satisfying than AC: Origins (how many times will they profess they've "reinvented" the thing but still it's the same?) with its floaty combat and spacey detection with the free running moves (as always). You have to REALLY be into the narrative to get lots of pleasure out of those games, and I'm just not that kind of gamer.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming years. Will some of these big 3rd-parties just implode on themselves? I don't think so because the new generation of gamer seems totally fine with what is being served to them. But people my age... I don't know, at least for me, I'm not feeling a lot of those games anymore.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

RunninBlue

Has anyone played Joe Dever’s Lone Wolf? I really like the looks of it and am thinking about getting the Switch version. Impressions?

Edited on by RunninBlue

RunninBlue

kkslider5552000

gcunit wrote:

Is there anyone here who can honestly say they really wanted to get X indie game, but they didn't get it because they bought a VC game instead? It doesn't work like that, does it?

I can say with confidence that there were Wii U indie games I would've bought had I not gotten the few VC games I got on Wii U. There are at least a few games I missed out despite actively focusing on supporting (mostly) quality indie games during the middle of Wii U's lifecycle. Probably Wii as well. Not as much on 3DS, but largely because I was avoiding buying more retail 3DS games in order to play certain smaller games (steamworldheistisbetterthananyfireemblemdealwithit).

Very objectively, time and money put into games is time and money not put into other games. It does not AUTOMATICALLY mean you would play X instead of Y, but it is still relevant. And when some of the most popular Wii U downloads were old games that were already available on the far more successful Wii with no permanent VC price drops since 2007, it says a lot to me to how Nintendo's and its fanbase's focus on its own IPs can be detrimental to competition on the same platform.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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JaxonH

Right.

Most people will buy, say, 2-3 games a week. And a lot of people don't even do that. Those games are $10-$15 apiece- that's $20-$40 a week being spent. If Nintendo starts releasing VC and we get two games a week that cost dang near 10 bucks apiece, are people suddenly going to double their budget for the next five years? I'm betting 95% of people wouldn't. They might increase their spending by one game a week to account for more games but, there are still games being left on the table, getting shafted as a result. Even one VC game a week can have that effect. But selling them en masse separately from the Switch can garner the same revenue, while not affecting people's eShop budgets. It's a psychological thing- people will spend that same money on the games, but they're not spending it on the eShop so they see it as a separate purchase like buying a tricycle or pizza on Friday.

Heck, even I, at times, have skipped out on indies that I was otherwise planning to purchase because so many games released that week. Not necessarily because of money but because I just want the best of the best and I felt like buying seven games that week was excessive, so I chose the top 3. Sure, those games were just other indies but the same thing will apply to virtual console- it's a game just like any other, and people will choose them over other games just like they would any other.

There is a reason we have not seen Virtual Console yet. Do people honestly just think Nintendo hates money? Do people honestly think they just said nah, we'd rather make less money so let's not release virtual console, or let's postpone it for years because we're already making enough right now... is that really what people think is going on? VC is a sure bet. Guaranteed money. Easy money at that, compared to the expenses associated with developing a brand new modern game, when they can release a Virtual Console title that can sell 1 million copies (probably even more) because it's Super Mario Brothers. They are not going to actively avoid making extra money unless there is very good reason to do so. Notice how they didn't hesitate to release these games on the last three platforms. Don't you find it a little odd they haven't committed to doing the same for the most popular console in years? Does that not strike you as even a little odd? It should.

They aren't idiots. If VC had no detrimental effect they would've already released the games. They would've released them within months of launch, just as they did with the Wii U. Get that cash rolling in and bounce back strong from the Wii U era, please those investors... Why do you think it is they are finding alternate methods of selling these games? Methods which avoid the problems that arise with weekly releases monopolizing the digital storefront? They are going to continue selling these games- it's just a question of how they are going to do it. And right now it seems weekly releases that dominate the consumer's attention and wallet is off the table. They might loosen up when the online launches, because the system will be nearly 2 years old by then and it's success will be on a trajectory well past the point of no return.

Edited on by JaxonH

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MsJubilee

@RunninBlue If you like choose your own adventure books this game is right for you. If you can get the past the long loading screen when you launch the game and the weird controls(especially during fights),i would recommend it.

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Anti-Matter

@JaxonH
"Most people will buy, say, 2-3 games a week. And a lot of people don't even do that."
Well, not all peoples spent their money for 2 - 3 games in one week.
Depend on their budget and their needs, sometimes they can spend their money for a lot of games, sometimes not at all.
Me, myself still have to save my money for other important things, not just for games only.
I just wonder, what job do you take ?
How much money you get for each month ?
Looks like you can easily buy this or that games whenever you want.

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Harmonie

darkfenrir wrote:

https://nintendoeverything.com/yonder-the-cloud-catcher-chron...

On another note while you guys are talking about indie, Yonder is coming to Switch. Hmmm, kind of tempted to give it a try on Switch but I'm not sure.

It does looks great though, maybe I should watch some let's play to be sure.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE And it's not another of 2D, pixelated, sidescrolling, platformer you are ticking off ( o-o)

That looks kind of interesting! And I'm like SLIGEACH_EIRE here in that I see most Indies and they're just 2D pixelated stuff that looks like it belongs on the NES or SNES and it's an instant turn-off for me. This game and My Time At Portia look interesting to me.

For the record Nintendo could start releasing VC and release nonsense that I've already played and owned ten times over like SMB, ALTTP, etc. and my eyes would still be on these Indies.

Harmonie

Nintendo Network ID: WoodwindsRock

RunninBlue

MsJubilee wrote:

@RunninBlue If you like choose your own adventure books this game is right for you. If you can get the past the long loading screen when you launch the game and the weird controls(especially during fights),i would recommend it.

Sweet. Yeah, I like the concept of it, haven’t read a Choose Your Own Adventure in a long time though. Thanks.

RunninBlue

Octane

The thing with these smaller indie games is, you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. There's so much rubbish that's it's very easy to label the whole bunch as rubbish. Yeah, there are a lot of 8/16-bit inspired pixel platformers, and likewise there are a lot of mediocre 3D Journey/Zelda/Ico inspired ''adventure'' games. But once in a while you get something good like Fez or Hyper Light Drifter. I find it difficult to like the over-ambitious 3D games made by small teams. When I do, I gravitate towards the bigger budget stuff, those seem to be more polished and unique, like Firewatch or The Witness.

JaxonH wrote:

Most people will buy, say, 2-3 games a week.

Most?

Octane

Shellcore

@JaxonH I buy probably one game per month. If not, one every two months. Think 2-3 per week is a little OTT.

StuTwo

I’d bet that a sizeable percentage of console owners - as in 25% up - never buy a single eshop game. On a console like 3DS maybe 50% never even opened the eshop app.

I’ve definitely substituted a VC in for an indie purchase in the past. Why but a game that advertises it wants to be like Super Metroid when you can buy Super Metroid? It’s like having the Godfather duology (they only made 2) on Blu Ray and deciding to watch 5 hours of Eastenders instead.

In general Nintendo has more of an issue competing with indies because their 8 & 16 bit back catalogue is so but stronger but also because so many indie games are homages to Nintendo’s own games (but usually lacking a true understanding of why they were great to begin with and without the same level of budget or polish).

StuTwo

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