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Topic: Splatoon 2

Posts 4,841 to 4,860 of 4,952

BenAV

@Northwind As someone who has been in the position of the experienced player, I have to admit that it can be pretty satisfying to pick up like 20 splats and keep an entire team trapped in their spawn.

BenAV

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Northwind

I’m guessing new-player retention is a genuine problem for this game...

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Snatcher

@Northwind The fact that there is no SBMM is a big issue, there is a level 38 STAR vs level 6-13, They have added patches to this game so idk why they wont add SBMM, Nintendo is a freaky company some times.

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BenAV

@Snatcher There is SBMM. That's why there's seven low level players in that lobby at the same time. But there are other factors that go into matchmaking so it's not always that simple to always get a room with completely even levels. For all we know the level 38* might have joined the lobby through the friend list. And keep in mind that this is the just for fun Turf War mode. In the more competitive ranked mode, you get matched against players of the same rank.

BenAV

Switch Friend Code: SW-4616-9069-4695 | 3DS Friend Code: 3652-0548-9579 | Nintendo Network ID: Ben_AV

Snatcher

@BenAV Oh I heard northwind say there wasnt any or he sounded like there wasn't so its not all just randome?

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BenAV

@Snatcher The game tries to match you against players of a similar level if it can. I'm level 53* so when I play turf war it's mostly other players with stars or at least 50+.

BenAV

Switch Friend Code: SW-4616-9069-4695 | 3DS Friend Code: 3652-0548-9579 | Nintendo Network ID: Ben_AV

Northwind

I have personally seen little to no evidence of any SBMM at all. That particular lobby was mostly lower-levelled players, but I had to go through a dozen or so lobbies with ranges from <10 to >100 before I found that one. Additionally, you can see from my earlier screenshots that I have matched into lobbies (quite frequently, in fact) filled with level 30-100 players and maybe one or two players at levels <15. None of those players were my friends. It was totally random.

Additionally, I do know that the friend list can be used to invite players regardless of level - but maybe it shouldn’t be able to outside of private lobbies? If those high-level players were indeed invited by someone...well, I didn’t consent to that and I genuinely don’t wish to play with such players yet. If there is indeed some kind of SBMM, one player should not be allowed to unilaterally ruin it for everyone in a lobby.

ETA: level in this game is not merely a measure of player experience and practice. It’s also a measure of literal strength. Until you get to level 30, you literally don’t have access to all the weapons. You can’t necessarily know what they can do, so you can’t be expected to know how best to play against them - and, of course, they can be used against you but you can’t use them yet no matter how much you want to. Additionally, higher-level players almost certainly have more-optimised gear.

I was going to use the analogy of an amateur fighting game player being thrown against a pro player, but that analogy is inaccurate. A better analogy would be a low-level MMORPG character being thrown into PvP against a high-level character: the difference is not just one of player skill, but equally one of avatar strength.

Edited on by Northwind

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BenAV

@Northwind The fact that you're not able to consistently find players near your level is probably just an indication of there not being a ton of low level players looking for matches at the same time these days compared to higher level players. Can't start a game without eight players so can't have all low level players if there aren't enough searching. If there was no SBMM then you'd be seeing a lot more higher level players than you are now.

Turf war is meant to be the casual just for fun mode so I don't think there's anything wrong with being able to jump in with your friends regardless of level. A lot of my friends are like level 40 or lower and it'd suck if I had no way to casually play with them outside of private lobbies.

BenAV

Switch Friend Code: SW-4616-9069-4695 | 3DS Friend Code: 3652-0548-9579 | Nintendo Network ID: Ben_AV

Northwind

@BenAV, I respect your opinion but I do disagree. Getting utterly destroyed eight games in a row - to the point that you can’t even get off spawn much of the time - is the opposite of ‘fun’. It also doesn’t provide new players much real opportunity to improve their skills, if they can’t move for two-thirds of every match. Remember: Turf is literally the only mode available at the start of the game, and it takes hours of play to unlock anything else. So, please remember: you have other options to play (private lobbies for friends, ranked and league for serious play). New players don’t have most of those options.

In a very real sense, the game should not still be on the market (at least at full price) if it cannot provide new players a reasonable path to hone their skills. I do feel like the $60 I spent on this game has been wasted, because outside of the Splatfest I honestly cannot find a fair match to save my life. I don’t feel it’s unreasonable to say that’s unfun and not what was advertised when I bought the game.

(Also, please read the analogy I edited into my above comment, as I feel it nicely sums up the situation here.)

Autocorrect keeps causing me to write things I didn't Nintendo.

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BenAV

@Northwind Private lobbies aren't viable when you only have 2-3 players. Taking away the ability to play with friends would be screwing over long-time players just for the sake of new players potentially having a slightly better experience for the first few dozen hours but even that's not guaranteed. Can always hone skills in the single player which is basically a glorified tutorial or the Octo Expansion which is really fun and has a bit of challenge to it. Or in Salmon Run which is PvE. Or just tough it out against the stronger players, try to learn what you're doing wrong and figure out what you can do better. They're more experience but they're not unbeatable.

Northwind wrote:

the difference is not just one of player skill, but equally one of avatar strength.

What do you mean? The difference in Splatoon is almost entirely player skill.

BenAV

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gcunit

@Northwind You're running into the same issues I've had with the game. Games with players scoring 0p happen WAY too often.

I don't mind opponents camping (it's to be expected in turf war), I just dislike the respawn delay time. Spending half a game respawning over and over is the opposite of fun.

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BenAV

@gcunit If a player scores 0p then that's an indication that they dropped connection or rage quit half way through. It sucks when it happens as it's almost impossible to win 3v4 most of the time but that's online play for you I guess.

I get the frustration about the respawn time but it's a necessary evil as without it there wouldn't be enough penalty for getting splatted.

Edited on by BenAV

BenAV

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Northwind

@BenAV, I can tell you’ve never tried to hone PvP skills in PvE modes. To a very large extent, they’re not comparable (in basically any game). The opposition you face in PvE modes generally translates almost zero to PvP modes, and this game is no exception.

@gcunit, yeah, I agree - and several others here have said the same. It seems there’s a real disconnect in this forum between the experienced players and the newcomers. The experienced players are genuinely trying to be helpful - which I do appreciate - but they don’t seem to actually understand the extent of the issues. Like, sure, everyone gets spawn-camped sometimes. I get that. But I sort of doubt most of them have ever spent a solid hour and a dozen lobbies just trying to get to play the game before giving up in frustration. It seems to be the classic issue of ‘it’s not a problem for me, therefore it’s not a problem that needs addressing’.

I think the solution ought to be to drop the price of the game and just be honest with buyers that the low-level player base is too small to offer the experience that players who adopted much earlier got. Then each person could make their own decision, and no-one would be paying $60 for what is no longer a $60 experience. Unlike most games, the experience this game offers to new players actually has changed significantly since its release. Its price should reflect that.

Edited on by Northwind

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Snatcher

@Northwind Good luck getting nintendo to drop the price on that game, they still sell wii u games for 60 bucks.

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Northwind

@Snatcher, oh yeah, I don’t think it’ll actually happen. All I’m saying is that it should.

Most games, the general experience doesn’t change with time. At most, older games might seem dated by comparison - but in a vacuum they’re still the same game they always were, so keeping the price static has some justification.

This game isn’t most games. For a person buying this game now, the core experience is significantly different - not in a good way - compared to those who bought it two years ago.

Nintendo has made a lot of decisions recently that drew some ire from players and fans - and tbf this one isn’t even high on that list, because it’s Nintendo’s long-standing MO - but just in this forum alone are several people who have bought this game recently and been unhappy. Seems like it might be a good PR move to just be honest that this game isn’t the same for new adopters as it once was. I know that’ll never happen - but it probably should.

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BenAV

Northwind wrote:

@BenAV, I can tell you’ve never tried to hone PvP skills in PvE modes. To a very large extent, they’re not comparable (in basically any game). The opposition you face in PvE modes generally translates almost zero to PvP modes, and this game is no exception.

@Northwind Umm, yeah I have. In Splatoon 2. I played a ton of Salmon Run early on and I think it's actually extremely valuable in learning a lot of the fundamentals of the game. It won't help much when it comes at aiming at human players but it's great for honing your movement, ink management and situational awareness as Salmon Run on the higher difficulties gets super hectic and staying alive requires you to get pretty good at a lot of the basics. Plus it's the best way to earn food tickets, drink tickets and chunks to use towards creating your perfect gear so two birds with one stone.

BenAV

Switch Friend Code: SW-4616-9069-4695 | 3DS Friend Code: 3652-0548-9579 | Nintendo Network ID: Ben_AV

Northwind

BenAV wrote:

Northwind wrote:

@BenAV, I can tell you’ve never tried to hone PvP skills in PvE modes. To a very large extent, they’re not comparable (in basically any game). The opposition you face in PvE modes generally translates almost zero to PvP modes, and this game is no exception.

I played a ton of Salmon Run early on and I think it's actually extremely valuable in learning a lot of the fundamentals of the game. It won't help much when it comes at aiming at human players but it's great for honing your movement, ink management and situational awareness as Salmon Run on the higher difficulties gets super hectic and staying alive requires you to get pretty good at a lot of the basics.

Emphasis mine, but...uh...that’s a pretty big portion of PvP in this game - and, in fact, seems to be the thing most newcomers here have complained about.

I might have missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone here complaining about running out of ink, about moving around stages (once they can get off spawn, I guess) or about difficulty being aware of where threats are.

None of those things seems to be the prevailing issue. Rather, the prevailing issue for most of the newcomers here seems to be unbalanced matchmaking and the resulting problem of getting locked down for huge portions of every match by humans.

Now, I’ll give benefit of the doubt that you’re not trying to be deliberately disingenuous in ignoring the main point others here have made - but I’m afraid we do seem to have some degree of failure to understand one another, so I’m not sure any further discussion will be productive. Shall we drop this for now?

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BenAV

@Northwind If you're using an Inkbrush or even something like the Splattershot Jr then aiming is hardly a factor in the first place. Skills like being able to read the situation well, being able to move around comfortably while avoiding attacks and being able to react quickly are a lot more important to escaping from that situation than being able to aim is. If you were using a long range weapon like a Charger or Splatling then that'd be a different story.

BenAV

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gcunit

I think what it boils down to is that Splatoon, like pretty much all online shooters, doesn't really cater for casual players. If you wanna play online matches, you've just got to accept the nature of the beast - it's competitive and predominantly populated by players who have played it a lot, which makes it tough for casual players and latecomers.

This is why I don't really play online shooters. I don't have the time or inclination to commit to them enough. Splatoon looks like it's going to be different enough to the mainstream, because it's a Nintendo product, but it isn't. It could do with bots in turf war match making so that you can insist on only playing against opponents that are within a number (of your choosing) of levels either side of yours. Guess that's easier said than done with the turf war system.

Edited on by gcunit

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