Topic: Discussion: Switch Successor & Backwards Compatibility

Hey all, with all the talk about the upcoming switch sucessor; I wanted to see how you all felt about backwards compatibility. Do you think the next console should be backwards compatible? If so, does it need to run the games exactly as is, or would you want them to be upgraded in some way, like PS4 games on PS5? Would you want them to just not include backwards compatibility if they for some reason ran worse. The only example I can really think of is how pixelated DS games look on the 3DS. Hope to hear some of your opinions. Have a great day.

@Yousef- To achieve that, they may need to add a notch to the "Switch 2" cartridges so they don't fit into the Switch 1 console. Sorta like what they did with the 3DS cartridges.

@Konsori The Switch was the first Nintendo console in a while 15+ years that didn't have backward compatibility, and I think much of that had to do with going with cartridge format and omitting disks. I think it would be foolish for them to develop their proprietary cartridge for only one console. So, I imagine the switch carts will work in the next console.

Although, I'm a little worried that the cart production costs (which are more expensive than cheap-as-heck disks) may continue to scare off third parties from offering physical versions of their bigger games. Going forward, I hope those days are mostly behind us.

My interest in Nintendo's next platform hinges on backwards compatibility. If my Switch 1 collection isn't coming with me to Switch 2, I have no qualms about skipping the Switch 2. I'm a fan of the Switch concept. More so than being a Nintendo fan.

@Konsori : They don't need a "notch". I think NIntendo only did that with the 3DS so that people didn't confuse it for being an incremental upgrade to the original DS. I strongly suspect that the next console will continue to use the same-sized cartridges. There's no need to make them any bigger or smaller than they already are without rendering them impractical to use and store.

Meanwhile, Sony has been using the same-shaped discs without issue since their very first console, in spite of the change in formats over the years (from CD to DVD to Blu-ray to UHD Blu-ray).

I suspect that inserting a Switch 2 cartridge into an original Switch family console will simply inform the user that the cartridge is incompatible. Easy peasy.

I don’t care about Nintendo’s next console if it isn’t backwards compatible.

If it isn’t backwards compatible, then we’re probably gonna be stuck with a bunch of $70 Deluxe versions of the games we just bought on Switch.

It is a day one buy for me if backwards. If not, not so sure. There is oodles and oodles of games on Switch to last me my life time really. Sure, I would WANT to play the new Nintendo titles, but I wouldn't NEED it. I am super happy with my Switch and all that it has to offer.

@SillyG
The notch is something they also did on GBC cartridges. Also if we're being technical it was also done for GBA, DS, SNES, N64, GC, Wii and Switch. The only consoles that didn't make the new games physically incompatible with the old system were Wii U, DSi and New 3DS

The notch I think is almost certainly happening. And it will exist for games that are strictly Switch 2 only. But I suspect there will be plenty of cross compatible games that run better on Switch 2 and full BC. Possibly with the exception of games that require Switch specific features like Labo and Ring Fit (but even then, JoyCon are just Bluetooth)

I probably won't get a Switch 2 if it is not backwards compatible.

The GBC is an interesting case, because most of its games were dual mode, and would still run on an original GB, albeit with reduced features. Only the ones that came in clear shells didn't have the cutout for the power switch cartridge lock, and even if you modified them to fit, they'd still display a warning that they were incompatible.

Assuming that the Switch 2 also has a mix of dual mode and exclusive games, they might well go with a similar solution. I suspect that it'll probably involve a download if you've not got the right cartridge for the console you've got, however, rather than including both versions of the game. At least, that's how Sony and Microsoft are doing it.

@Yousef- : Not true. Gold and Silver are compatible with original Game Boy models. Only Crystal was exclusive to the Game Boy Color.

@RygelXVIII : I never owned one growing up (or since for that matter 😅), but the GBC completely blew my mind back in the day. A full colour gaming device that ran on a few AA batteries?! Unbelievable! And just look at how far we have come since.

@Matt_Barber
I'm not sure if it will require a download for two "versions" of the game. Switch 2 code should be able to run natively on the Switch. The problems with forwards compatibility is mostly going to come down to features, performance and precompiled shaders. In theory you should be able to achieve cross compatibility by just having alternate code paths with different settings and possibly assets

Backwards compatibility would be more or less the same just with either a patch for specific games or some kind of compatibility layer for the GPU

Personally, I hate backwards compatibility, and I think consoles should just move on and be their own thing. People who want to play old games should get the old consoles to do so.

That being said, backwards compatibility has become something that people are rabid about (just look at this thread lol), so they really have no choice. They have to have it.

Backward Compatibility is really great feature.
Not just only economic but also gives you two functional different machines in one body.

@Yousef- : Again, not true. Even the packaging itself states that they're compatible with original Game Boy systems, complete with a monochromatic screenshot. Only Crystal version cannot be played on an original Game Boy.

I'd argue that this view is antiquated. In the past I might have agreed with you given the obvious downsides to backwards compatibility that have existed. The most obvious example being the screen resolution mis-match between GC/GBA/DS/3DS. And also the rapid advancement of hardware making it so you don't necessarily want to go backwards, like playing Mario Kart Wii on a Wii U when you could be playing Mario Kart 8

But I don't think that's as true as it once was. We're hitting a wall in terms of resolution and scope. There are plenty of games that exist on Switch that will still be worthwhile looking at decades from now. And not just through nostalgia goggles. When Switch 2 launches I don't really want to have to carry around a Switch and a Switch 2 just so I can swap between the next 3D Mario and Arms or Super Mario Wonder. And I I don't see what benefit that'd bring

Imagine if there hadn't been a Wii U/3DS/Switch split. Would it have not been nice to have had Samus Returns on Switch in that first year? Maybe it would've been nice to have had Pokemon Ultra Sun/Moon? Or, heaven forbid, maybe Wind Waker HD. Obviously that wasn't technically possible with the Switch transition because of the dramatic differences in hardware but with Switch 2 it could easily be done. And I for one wouldn't be opposed to DKCR HD on an 8" screen on day 1 of Switch 2

In any case, PC has been doing it this way for years. Is it a bad thing that I can still download Portal even though I bought that game something like 5 GPUs ago? I'd argue not. Especially given there are now portable devices I could get and play it on and an RTX remix version. I'd take that over posting in Nintendo Direct threads wondering whether or not they'll put Metroid Prime 3 on Switch.....

It doesn't. I'm surprised someone can be so confidently wrong about this on a Nintendo forum of all places. I'm half tempted to grab my copy and my original clear "Play It Loud" GameBoy from when I was a kid and take a photo to prove it. But because I'm nice I'll just link you to Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Game_Pak#Color-enhance...

@skywake
My viewpoint is indeed antiquated, but when it comes to a hobby that has no impact on the wellbeing of human beings, I think that is perfectly fine.

In fact, hobbies are sort of the last bastion of where it’s “ok” to hold antiquated views and do things the old-fashioned way for perhaps a bit more charm and feel.

So yea, agreed - what you’re saying is technically correct. But batter my britches if playing games on the intended hardware and intended controller isn’t the best-feeling way to game for me.

I doubt we're looking at downloading the whole game. Like you say, code is a non issue and there will be a lot of common assets. It's more a case of cartridge space already being a squeeze, so they probably won't find the space for everything both versions would need.

For what it's worth, PlayStation and Xbox games rarely come with both versions on the disc, and some of them will trigger a full download rather than reusing the common assets.

@Matt_Barber
I'd think it'll probably depends on how they go about it. And it might well be a game-by-game thing. For example for a game like Echoes of Wisdom you might decide that the only thing the Switch 2 "version" needs to do different is increase the target resolution and framerate. All assets the same but instead of 720p/60fps (with dips to 30) you let it go to 1440p and allow the CPU to rip giving you a stable 60fps. In which case it's a few lines in the same code

But at the other end you might look at something like BotW and decide that what you actually want to do is significantly improve load times by compressing assets. And also putting assets on faster storage i.e. not a Switch 1 cartridge. Hell, maybe for a cross-compatible TotK they recognise that the video quality of the cutscenes in TotK was.... well.... what it was.... and for a Switch 2 version they'll use AV1 which is more efficient and Ampere supports hardware decoding of. But at that point it's almost more of a remaster than just a cross-compatible game

So it's going to depend I think. But I would say for a lot of cases the difference will mostly be just be a different target resolution/framerate. And for those there probably won't be a need for download, other than possibly a precompiled shader blob which.... shouldn't take up too much space anyways and there might be some other solution for

@rallydefault
Again, I think you're looking at this retrospectively rather than how things are going to play out. I agree with you that original hardware is better in some circumstances. Not all, some. The best way to play DS games is on a DS, the best way to play 3DS games is on a 3DS. Wii and GC I'm emulating those personally but for both, and Wii in particular, I'm using original controllers. I don't think it's always true but it has often been true

However I don't think that's how this Switch 2 transition is going to play out. I suspect that the Switch 2 will be the best hardware to play Switch games on. For a start, plenty of Switch games don't hit 1080p for the TV or 720p portable anyways so the screen resolution mis-match that has often been the issue with BC on Nintendo portables won't be a factor. If anything Switch 2 might improve things in that regard. And then there's the fact that the CPU limitations of the Switch is very often the cause of performance issues. Again, something that Switch 2 will address and almost surely mean that Switch games run better on Switch 2

For controls? I mean, there's nothing controller wise the Switch does which is particularly odd. Functionally speaking. It's just two sticks, two triggers, two shoulder buttons, D-Pad and ABXY. I would assume those will carry. There's also the IR camera, HD rumble and Gyro which may or may not carry bit I would susspect at least the second two will. But even if they don't or you just "like the feel" of the originals, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's support for the JoyCon/Pro Controllers over bluetooth. It's just bluetooth. I don't think this will be at all like the transition from the Wii/Wii U era to Switch where in the transition you lost the weight of the Wii Mote, the IR pointer and the second screen of the Wii U. So this argument is moot

Also, frankly, I think you have it all wrong. See for me the main reason I want backwards compatibility is so that from day 1 I have games like Hades, Super Meat Boy, Baba is You, Boomerang Fu, Clubhouse Games and so on. All of that plus whatever Switch 2 only games come out on one system. So that I can pick up one system for a games night and it'll be the one with all of the things including a Mario Kart 9 or something. I doubt anyone upon booting JackBox Party Pack 4 will complain (or even notice) that I'm booting it up on a Switch 2. But they probably would complain if I turned up to a games night without Boomerang Fu

I really can't see what valid argument there could be for allowing "console generations" to get in the way of that kind of flexibility. All things being equal. Even if you personally prefer the "authentic" experience, which is flirting with gatekeeping IMO, I don't see why you would be against the option being available. It's not like Switch 2 being backwards compatible is going to brick all OG Switches