Topic: Best levelling system in Switch games?

Hi Guys!

Recently I made a thread about MMO's for the switch. Now I've come to the point where I have to accept that Onigiri is crap, DC Universe is not for everyone, and thus we have to look for our (MMO) Levelling needs elsewhere. Hence the question: What Switch games have the best levelling system? Please try to explain why instead of just posting the name of the game.

For me a great example would be Dragons Dogma. The levelling is great: The progress is tied to the level of your character because if you're too low you'll simply not be able to beat some monsters, but 10 levels later you can roflstomp them. Additionally, the level cap is a nice grind to get too, but once you get there it feels like you truly accomplished something.

So, what do you guys think, what is the best game where you can grind some juicy Exp and level up with a purpose?

Skyrim still possesses my favorite progression system, play-to-progress. Better than static stat gains from leveling up in jrpgs or the random gear drops of dungeon crawlers. Want to be a great thief? You've got to steal a lot first. Want to be a deadly archer? Use that bow and arrow more often than sword or sorcery.

@Magician Yeah, great suggestion. I did already buy Skyrim, but I have yet to replay it (I will probably get around to it in a bit). It's indeed an amazing progress system that makes you want to put in the extra effort for max lvl as well. Felt very satisfactory when I maxed sneak for the first time haha.

Dragon's Dogma probably has my least favourite levelling system of any major title I've ever played. Threshold levelling is bad enough as is (cough cough BOTW armour cough) but DD kinda takes it to the next level by tricking you into thinking you are playing a skill-based game when that couldn't be further from the truth. You've got a full set of movement and attack options, bosses with varied movelists and things to learn, and yet, if you are just a level below the threshold, even if you know the boss inside out, you are forced to either die and grind or grin and bare 30 minutes of chip damage. The game throws so many healing options at you that you never feel threatened by anything either so one half of you wants to bum rush the next boss and the other knows you'll just be sitting around for minutes on end slowly poking away if you get too excited. If it were threshold-based with an insane loot drive I'd be more inclined to enjoy it but there are already other loot-based titles like Diablo 3 which do that bit with a considerable amount more depth and excitement.

I do enjoy Skyrim's progression system, especially given how it bolsters the RP part of RPG. If you spec certain things, you can take down enemies much ahead of your current abilities (flame spells against ice trolls, sneaking around with potions, conjuring atronachs to distract high-health bosses, etc) and you are heavily incentivised to think carefully about the strengths and weaknesses of your build in the various environs throughout the game.

I'd argue Terraria has one of the best levelling systems in any game I've ever played, and it doesn't even have conventional levels. It strikes a near-perfect 50/50 balance of knowledge and numbers. There are constant high-level threats like invasions to be on the lookout for so even when in the safety of the entry biome, you need to be clever with your resources. There's so much stuff you need to keep in mind that resource accumulation feels less like grinding and more like a constant stream of necessity. You CAN beat the game off the back of sheer time investment but clever players will be rewarded with early and immediate boss kills, not through acquisition of legendary weapons after months of playtime, but through thoughtful and logical traps or defensive measures. You are constantly rewarded for thinking ahead and thinking sharp. Due to almost the entirety of the game being run on emergent systems, it kinda feels like where mainstream RPGs will end up in due time.

@cryptologous Very good point about Dragons Dogma. I never thought about it like that, but it's certainly true. For me the levelling felt very satisfying because gaining that level could mean making or breaking it, but you do make very valid points that they could make it more loot compelling. A game with the levelling and loot balance of World of Warcraft would be perfect for me. Diablo 3 feels like anything you gain loot-wise before 70 is useless (because the levelling to max doesn't take long enough) and thus D3 isn't perfect in my opinion either. Though it's an amazing game, it's too much just about the endgame (max lvl). Terraria is indeed a great suggestion, it's amazing how well that game ended up. I played it when it just got released on PC, and it turned into a true gem. levels are worth something, but no matter the level if you don't understand the boss you'll die regardless.

I also played Dragon marked for Death, but for the love of god that did not feel rewarding at all. Levelling took too long, and when you did gain a level it seemingly had no impact. I had such high hopes for this game as it seemed to have it all, but turned out to be a bit blend. Might have to give it another try though, maybe it gets better with time.

@cryptologous Yeah I didn’t like that in DD. I thought the leveling system was the worst part of that game, and felt kinda haphazard.

For action RPGs, I’d say either Skyrim or Dark Souls have the best leveling since they didn’t try to mess too much with what works. I also like how BOTW doesn’t bother with leveling and closing things off to players at all. So you can use the best weapon in the beginning of the game if you find it.

I find leveling is a bit of a tabletop D&D cliche at this point, and developers should really consider alternatives at this point.

Now that worlds in games have become more expansive, it seems reward enough to continue playing without the leveling/grinding gimmick.

@NotTelevision I disagree with you there. A well implemented levelling system is still some of the most rewarding aspects a game can have i.m.o.
What I do agree with is that people got lazy by implementing it. They now have it for the sake of having it, and not to make the game better. Levelling can be great when used to work towards a goal. Become level X to wear this piece of armor, RRecommended level X to fight this boss/go to this area/do this quest. In the latter case it feels even better when you beat it under the recommended level.
Levelling is still a great gimmic and it can really add something to a game, to the point that gaining a level can feel super rewarding. But yes, nowadays people just have it to create a fake grind/limit.
I do hope a game will be released on the Switch soon that does all these elements right.

@Cissero Yeah I agree that it can be satisfying getting into that gameplay loop. If I like the game I’m playing, I don’t really mind leveling that much either. JRPGs obviously need to have a deep leveling and upgrade system, since they are based around “dice rolling” turn based battles. That’s fine and it works for now.

I just think in an action game, RPG or not, game designers should look beyond making people look at Excel spreadsheet style menus full of numerical data in the future. With that option not there, I’m sure they’d come across some good alternatives to keep players invested. I always imagined there’d be a more organic way to go about it.

@NotTelevision Good point And I think it is heading that way looking at BOTW for example.

@Cissero I believe you're trying to satiate your mmo-type of leveling- hunger where you shouldn't. Leveling in mmos is(and should be) fundamentally different that in single player rpgs. In most mmos today leveling is just a grind until you reach the lvl cap where the "real" game starts(DCUO being a prime example of that).
Whereas i don't like the term "grind" on my single player rpgs. There's no endgame destination that you should be aiming for.The journey is what should matter.
For example, and to answer your question, i think The Outer Worlds(the closest thing to Fallout the Switch will get for some time) will have one of the most meaningful progression systems in the console when it comes out. The fun in that game is not in reaching lvl 30(which is the lvl cap) but in the way you build your character and interact with the world around him/her on your way there.
And that's what your character in a single player rpg should feel like imo. An integral part of a living world that evolves around you depending on your actions and not just a grinding machine that gets more powerful with every gear drop.
There's nothing wrong with the latter(i've done it multiple times in several games). I'm just saying there's a time and a place for everything.

@Syndrome " I believe you're trying to satiate your mmo-type of leveling- hunger" - Guilty as charged haha. It's true, and Outer Worlds does indeed look very promising. I'm really looking forward to that game.
Yet, if an MMO would release on Switch I would be so happy. The levelling in Diablo 3 is simply to quick for example. If that game had a way slower levelling system that requires you to play through the quests etc. it would be amazing.
Maybe I should consider looking at TorchLight II again haha.

Anyway, I've just picked up Sword Art Online Hollow Realization, and I am getting a bit of my MMO craving out of that for now. It's not optimal, but so far I enjoy the story and gameplay (even though it's a whole lot of talking).

"And that's what your character in a single player rpg should feel like imo. An integral part of a living world that evolves around you depending on your actions and not just a grinding machine that gets more powerful with every gear drop." - this is very much true, the grinding should not be the core element. But I do love games that allow for grinding for the (die-hard) fans. I.m.o. Pokémon does this perfectly well. You certaintly don't have to grind, but maxing to lvl 100 still feels like a nice rewarding grind that you do get something out of. That's my closest example to what I'm looking with regards to levelling in a initially singeplayer game that's soon coming to switch.

What would be your opinion on Pokémon for example in this regard?

@Cissero I'm sorry but i'm not a Pokemon fan so i don't have an opinion about it. An alternative to what you're looking for might be Warframe. And i'm using the term "alternative" very loosely. In many regards it's different from traditional mmos and in other it's very similar. For example it does have a lot of grinding and crafting is a core element of the game but doesn't have traditional player levels. Your progression and "level of power" is determined by new Warframes(essentialy the game's classes) and weapons that you unlock/craft and how you upgrade them with mods, formas etc. Keep in mind though that it's a 3d person shooter with a frantic-pace style of gameplay. Like i said: not your traditional mmo. But it's free and it wouldn't cost you anything to give it a try. Assuming you haven't already;)

@Syndrome I have indeed tried Warframe and loved it haha. But quite quickly after picking it up it started to feel very repetetive. The missions weren't varied at all. But I do understand what people see in the game, especially when playing with friends. After playing Warframe was the moment where I started to look for a open world/fantasy/OG MMO again But thanks for the suggestion
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Dragons Dogma fit my picture really well of a semi-perfect singeplayer MMO. Have you tried that one?

@Cissero Yes i understand that Warframe's repetitive nature combined with it's limited mission variety could repel new players. Actually i was afraid you'd say that. But once you get to unlock Plains of Eidolon(Earth) and Fortuna(Venus), the 2 open world areas and especially once you start unlocking new frames and weapons and start experimenting with builds is where the fun factor goes up a lot.
I've started Dragon's Dogma once on pc and i remember getting to the point where i visited the first major city(don't remember it's name but i do remember getting arrested and thrown into jail for some reason lol). But other things got in the way and left it there. But i'm interested in picking it up at some point again and probably starting from the beggining.
Speaking of which how is it on Switch in terms of performance?

@Syndrome Haha, yeah. Warframe is definetely a game I'll end up picking up again in the future at some point. It's just that I've played quite some shooters lately so that urge is fullfilled for now

Dragons Dogma performs very well on Switch. It looks beautiful, runs smooth, and controls are great. The online aspect works well, and the expansion after you finished the main story is a nice addition. After I picked it up, I could not put it down untill the moment I was fully maxed (level and gear wise). Only con in my opinion is that the world felt a bit small after I finished it. That's where a game like Skyrim shines more. But I can fully recommend Dragons Dogma, especially for the low price point (which even gets dropped lower thanks to regular sales)