Topic: Switch 2 Lite incoming. Thoughts?

Well if it it doesnt come with 1080p then I don't think I'll be buying. I'd rather trade battery life than go back to 720p.

If you just want a smaller more power efficient switch 2, just go get a switch 1

Lots of games you run on Switch 2 are in 720p mode like Switch 1 games without an update and games like Cyberpunk 2077 in their performance mode at 40fps. Also the Switch Lite has a pixel density of about 267 per inch where as Switch 2 is 279 per inch so there isn't much in it with the original lite model and the perceived resolution and sharpness is actually better on the Switch Lite because of that smaller screen. Personally I tend to hold my Switch Lite at the same position as my Switch OLED so benefit from sharper visuals but with a smaller screen.

The problem with making it a 720p display is that, even if a game targets that, it's currently getting upscaled to 1080p, so you'd have to downscale it again, giving you two needlessly lossy conversions unless you go and change the game's code to handle the new resolution.

This is already a problem with some Switch 1 games targeting sub-native resolutions running under backwards compatibility, giving a smeary "Vaseline screen" effect because of that extra scaling step.

It's not like 1080p screens are that expensive or anything, either. It's features like 120 Hz and VRR that are making the Switch 2 pricey, and those aren't things that could easily be dropped without breaking certain games.

Nintendo have never changed the display resolution of a handheld device mid-generation, because it introduces these kinds of problems, and I can't see them changing that now.

I think you are over-thinking this. Why would a game targeting 720p upscale to 1080p on a 720p screen. Remember there are three resolutions on Switch 2, there is the native resolution of the game, the upscaled resolution maybe DLSS AI upscaled and then the final resolution to suit your monitor or display panel. The DLSS upscale or other upscaling technique is controlled by the software itself of the game but the final upscale or downscale is controlled by the Switch 2 operating system. If you have a 720p television that only supports up to 720p then the Switch 2 OS will limit final output to 720p this is effectively what would be happening with a Switch 2 Lite. So;

Switch 1 game with dynamic scaling from 240p to 720p to Switch 2 Lite 720p screen: Same results as original Switch or if there is an update to 1080p for Switch 2 image will be downscaled to the 720p screen or re-patched to 720p ideal results.

Switch 2 game with DLSS upscaling will be either downscaled from 1080p to 720p by OS or re-patched to 720p in a very simple update.

Switch 2 game with DLSS but targeting 720p output will give better results on Switch 2 Lite screen with a 1:1 pixel match.

Switch 2 game without DLSS upscaling downscaled from 1080p to 720p by OS or re-patched to 720p.

Lets not forget 720p resolution puts a lower load on the system and the display panel of the Switch 2 has many issues.

Key Display Issues:
Slow Response Times & Ghosting: The LCD panel has slow pixel response times (high gray-to-gray), resulting in noticeable image trailing (ghosting) and blur, even in games running at 60fps, making fast-moving content look smeared.
Worse Than Original Switch: Surprisingly, the Switch 2's LCD performs worse in response time than the original Switch's LCD, making the blur more apparent to users familiar with the older model.
Poor HDR Implementation: Despite being advertised, HDR doesn't provide deep blacks or a significant difference, primarily because the screen isn't bright enough and lacks local dimming zones (using a single backlight instead).
Color & Contrast: Colors lean towards cooler tones and aren't as vibrant as the Switch OLED's panel, with less impressive contrast ratios.
"Unforgivable" Performance: Some critics, like Digital Foundry, found the display's slow response time and motion blur to be a significant drawback, especially given the console's premium price point.

Many of these issues could be addressed more cheaply with a 720p panel especially input lag and pixel response and Nintendo could implement overdrive on a such a panel.

Also the Switch 2 Lite needs to be cheaper and inferior to the full fat Switch 2 with dock etc.

I have a Teclast T50 mini tablet which has a 120Hz adaptive sync/refresh panel. It's 8.7" with a resolution of 1340x800. The whole tablet cost me about £62. I suspect you could probably add another £20-30 to the price if it had been a 1080p or 1440p panel. Even at 8.7" the resolution seems perfect I don't need any more resolution and that is larger than the 7.9" panel of the Switch 2. The panel is incredibly responsive too thanks to its TDDI panel technology. I'm sure Nintendo could make significant savings by moving to a 720p panel and if the Switch 2 Lite had lets say a 6.2" screen like the original Switch I don't think you would care at all about lack of 1080p. I have a cheap Celeron laptop that I use when I need a portable computer running off battery. That has a 11.2" screen with a resolution of 1360x768 or thereabouts. On that screen the reduced resolution is noticeable, its still very usable but not ideal.

Nintendo does profitable hardware and so a Switch 2 Lite needs to make significant cost savings and lets not forget there are both advantages and disadvantages to moving to 720p. I'm thinking in the UK market such a device would need a price point of about £280-300.

@BonzoBanana It just isn't that simple. What's typically going on is that a sub-native image gets upscaled and then composed with native elements, such as text and HUD overlays and that's always going to be at 1080p because that's the only resolution it currently knows about.

A 720p Switch 2 just isn't happening. It might have been a defensible choice back when they first launched it, but now that they've gone with 1080p, I don't think there's any changing that.

Yeah, no. Ok, sure, the resolution stuff could be done. It's not ideal but it could be done. There's just no need for it, it's entirely possible to have a screen that's smaller and even still 1080p/120Hz. There are literally full smartphones, outright with no plan, made by Samsung that are ~$100AU cheaper than the Switch Lite with 1080p/90Hz OLED panels. The screen isn't a barrier here so any efforts to "resolve" that issue is for naught, it's not an issue

The problem is that the SoC is just.... fairly big... and already pretty heavily underclocked to hit the level of efficiency it has. Which makes a Lite model a bit of a stretch. There's just not really the space for it with the current design. I just don't see this happening without a node shrink. It almost surely will happen eventually, of course, I just don't see any reason to believe it at this point

And no, even if they could underclock it they wouldn't. That would effectively just create another performance profiles making developers lives even harder. All of a sudden you'd have Portable, Docked and Lite performance profiles. All of a sudden that game you shipped last year which ran fine doesn't run fine on particular models of the Switch 2. Yeah, that part is just a non-starter

A Switch 2 Lite would also need to somehow get more battery life than the current Switch 2, realistically. The Switch 2 can get away with being somewhat borderline in that field due to being a hybrid serving both roles, but a dedicated handheld? You need as many hours of play as you can possibly eek out. And there isn't really any way to do that, since all the power-sucking parts that impact the current Switch 2 battery life, are still needed in a Switch 2 Lite.

@metaphysician It'd not only need better battery life but to be able to achieve it with a smaller battery, in order to get the significant size and weight reduction required. I just can't see any way around that without doing a die shrink.

In terms of overall battery life, I'd think that two to three hours is about the sweet spot these days, and the Switch 2 only just falls short of the low end with the most demanding games. Bearing in mind that you can get a lot more if you're prepared to play lo-fi games (e.g. Stardew Valley), turn off a few settings, and maybe add a small external battery pack, it's bearable. Most other recent handhelds aim for similar, and in some cases that means packing a monster battery to get it.

Back in the day, my main use case for the DS Lite's nineteen hour battery life was pulling an entire long haul flight on a single charge and, now that most seats have a mains power socket, that's no longer a thing. If a hypothetical Lite 2 could offer three hours with most games, rather like the Lite currently does, that'd be plenty for me.

Sure. To be more precise, a Switch 2 Lite would need more battery density, basically. It might be able to get away with roughly the same life, but if so it'd definitely need to be smaller. And that only happens via a die shrink. Even if we get a battery tech breakthrough, there's no way Nintendo will get their hands on it before the Switch 3 ( not with every cellphone manufacture being willing to spend nigh-endless money to monopolize the supply for phones ).

Going back to the source of this discussion, we're talking about a three letter product code prefix here. That's where this is coming from. Three letters that exist within Nintendo's account portal which didn't exist before. Effectively, this is code used when you log into your Nintendo account in a browser and look at the consoles you have connected to your account

They have codes for the OG Switch, the Lite, the OLED, the Switch 2, the quiet Switch revision (red box) and now this new code. And tied to this code, currently, is an image of the Switch 2

So it seems likely there is some kind of different Switch SKU being planned. Or otherwise some kind of device that would need to show up alongside Switch consoles in your Nintendo account where you can see game/licence management stuffs. And they're using the Switch 2 image as its placeholder

I hope the rumours are true and its cheaper price. I cannot help feeling Nintendo should have done a Pro and Non-Pro Switch 2. Maybe the Pro with a better screen/Battery life and more storage. And the Non-Pro with a standard screen and less storage. But both having the ability to add more storage.

Sorry what is a sub native image in the context of the Switch 2, if you are talking about something like Metroid Prime 4 where it has a 1440p native image but 4K overlays I would still consider the 1440p to be the native resolution and the 4K overlay as a final resolution on top with the upscale. The main GPU is still natively rendering 1440p for the action screen. I think ultimately you think a lot of text will be unreadable with a 720p screen on many games and I don't, I think it will be rare and completely manageable. There is text I can't read on the Switch Lite screen very well but can still read it, it just doesn't look as clean.

I thought I'd covered this previously if the Switch 2 Lite was Switch 1 size plus you have a lower power 720p screen, lower clocks and a much reduced cooling system as there is no dock mode with higher power levels then the system will have more space for a larger battery in relation to its size. 7.9" while bigger is not hugely bigger than the 6.2" to 7" screen of the normal Switch models. It is perfectly possible to make a Switch 2 Lite model with longer battery runtime on the existing fabrication process. It may not be the ideal design but it would be cost effective and have huge manufacturing cost savings for Nintendo so they could introduce a more budget model. I think it is something like 19.2Wh currently in the Switch 2 plus an extra 2x1.9Wh for the joy cons, but it would be easy to fit in a single battery 25-32Wh.

Lots of gaming handhelds have much higher Wh batteries in a small form factor. Nintendo went incredibly cheap with the Switch 2, it is not going to break the bank to increase that by 30-50% for a portable only model and there is space for it too. It is really the only component that would cost more with everything else cost reduced. It should be able to achieve an easy minimum 3 hours of gameplay compared to the 2 hours of the launch Switch 2. The panel itself is a huge part of power consumption and that will probably drop 20-30% in power requirements compared to the larger screen. Also lets not forget no detachable joy cons so their power requirements are massively reduced with no need for wireless connectivity so there is extra space in that area too with no joy con batteries. The original Switch Lite lacked vibration feedback and this could be the same, so again more space available less power needed. Lastly its minor but the fan cooling will take less power.

I do think it wouldn't be possible if the Switch 2 lite was Switch Lite size but I don't think they will do that I think they will go slightly smaller maybe around 6.2-6.5" size. It's minimum battery runtime must be longer for a model focused on portability.

@BonzoBanana
Uhm… have you held some of those PC handhelds? Even the Steamdeck? They are massive. They make the Switch 2 feel like you’re holding a piece of cardboard lol

@rallydefault @BonzoBanana
Yeah, just looking at the two now the Deck is noticeably thicker. Throwing a ruler against it it's maybe 1.5cm for the Switch 2 vs almost 2cm for the Deck. And that's just the section near the screen, ignoring the grips on the Deck (which I don't mind, personally), the additional space gained by not having the controller portions separate and the additional width of the thing

They could probably make the battery slightly bigger though, I expect. They just didn't really need to because, generally, the Switch 2 is pretty power efficient. It has basically half of the battery size of the Steam Deck and, if we're being honest, probably a slightly better battery life when you really push the hardware. Honestly despite all the commentary on it I haven't really had an issue with it

Where it falls short a bit vs the Deck is with those super low demanding games. At that point the power draw of the screen and the raw battery capacity are the bigger factors. And a 120Hz, larger LCD with a 20Wh battery just can't really compete with a smaller, 90Hz, OLED panel with a 50Wh battery in something like the Deck.....

..... but, personally, I'm also never using the Deck like that because of the bulk so. It's not really a several hours at a time away from power kind of a device. For that job I probably pick the Switch 2. Possibly I even grab my Switch OLED for those less demanding game. So even that's not a huge win for the Deck

@rallydefault Agreed. Since I take the Switch with me on trips, the size of the console is a pretty important factor in making it an actual portable gaming device. I'm not sure if my shoulder bag would even have enough room for a Steam Deck in a carrying case, let alone for some of those larger handheld PCs. So if the smaller size of the Switch 2 means a shorter battery life, that's an okay compromise for me, since almost all buses, trains, plains, etc. have a USB charging port nowadays (at least here in Finland they do). And the extra USB port they added on top of the Switch 2 makes it even easier to play it handheld mode while charging it at the same time.

One thing I will say about the bulk of the Switch 2 vs the Steam Deck OLED. I have hard-cases for both, which adds significantly to the actual carrying bulk. Honestly they're really not that different. The main difference between the two is more that the Deck is a fair bit wider for a smaller screen and it's also heavier. But also because it's wider it somehow feels more hollow and a bit "cheaper" despite that additional weight

I think in terms of size and feel Nintendo certainly did a better job. They're of course entirely different devices with fairly different use cases, and I love the Deck so I'm certainly not complaining about it. But I don't think the size and bulk of PC portables is something Nintendo should be aspiring to. If anything I would hope they would go the other way. And if there's a Steam Deck 2 in a couple of years I'd like to see them do the same

Honestly the size of the Steam Deck in combination with its button layout completely put me off it. The Switch 2 took some getting used to because of its size, but I don’t think I could ever get used to the Steam Deck.

As someone who finds the original Switch to be the perfect size, I’d absolutely love a Switch 2 Lite…but only if it’s dockable.

@BonzoBanana A sub-native image on the Switch 2 could be as low as 540p for a game like Star Wars Outlaws, that's primarily designed for more powerful home consoles.

For first-party games, sure, I doubt that there's much below 1080p at the moment, but the issue of having to scale both up and then down would be a real one if they were to introduce a 720p model, and the games that would suffer the most would be those big third-party ports.