Topic: So, how do we all feel about Nintendo's ability to 'brick' your Switch 2

Let me first start off by saying that I in no way condone piracy.

But do you feel as though you really 'own' your Switch 2 if Nintendo is allowed to do this, seemingly they have the right to render your console "permanently unusable" if you dare to modify it in any way they don't approve of.
Let that sink in for a bit, the console that you paid for, brought home and set up in your living room Is not actually yours and you are just leasing it from Nintendo and they're just letting you borrow it with conditions!
What's particularly disturbing is how broad these "restrictions" are. They include anything from modifying hardware to reverse engineering software.
Want to fix your Joy-Con drift (feature, by the way) or put in some extra apps by yourself? Nah sorry, that might brick your system. Curious about how your favourite games work under the hood? Too bad Nintendo might remotely disable your device.
Even more outrageous is the class action waiver buried in the agreement. The clause explicitly states: "This arbitration provision precludes you and Nintendo from suing in court, having a trial by jury or participating in a class action lawsuit" They're not just claiming ownership of your hardware - they're stripping away your legal recourse if anything goes wrong!
Don't know about you all out there but I feel like this is setting a very unhealthy precedent for gaming in general. Nintendo's 'brave' first new step will soon become the norm their audacious power grab isn't just concerning it's setting a dangerous precedent that Sony will undoubtedly follow with the Playstation 6.
Sony's track record speaks volumes. Remember when they yanked Linux support from PS3 after people had already bought the console? Or their resistance to crossplay until public pressure became overwhelming? I'm sure They're watching Nintendo's EULA experiment with keen interest, probably drafting their own version as we speak.
Sorry if I ruffled a few feathers with this, didn't mean to just thought it was an interesting topic for discussion.
As ever your comments would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I am for it to be honest. Its there to protect Nintendo from all the dummies out there to the honest. To many you get people who dont know what they are doing tinkering with their system and then breaking it and I am sure they demanded that Nintendo fix it or replace it for free. I am pretty sure they had their share of frivolous lawsuits for that reason that just take up time and money.

As for tinkering with the system to repair it, that's unnecessary since Nintendo offers repairs as well as warranties with their products and their repair service is top notch so there is no need to do it yourself.

Then on the other hand you have people doing stuff like that for nefarious means such as for pirating and such. So I can see why they would do that also, to protect their I.P.s and such.

So in the end it makes sense for them doing it. If people would just use the system as intended, to play games it would be fine problem is people dont and thus you have to resort to these type of measures.

Hasn’t there been a line like that in the EULA of Nintendos consoles for literally years? I’m pretty sure I remember talking about it with the 3DS or Wii U, and I think I saw a post somewhere that said they even had it as far back as the Wii.

In fact, I just looked up the 3DS EULA to check and sure enough there’s a line about your system risking being made permanently unusable if you use an unauthorised device with it. Now, look at the state the 3DS is in now, it’s so easy to hack it’s literally a meme.

I’m pretty sure it’s just a standard line that has existed for a while, which has only just now been noticed by some YouTubers who kicked up a stink about it. I genuinely wouldn’t worry about it.

Edit to add: I just read through the equivalent part of the Switch 2 EULA as well, and it and the 3DS one are both worded almost identically. They seem to be both warning that system updates could cause bricking if unauthorised devices are installed, which should be common knowledge to anyone who is messing with that kind of stuff. There’s nothing in either to suggest that Nintendo will actively go out of their way to brick you, just that updates may change how things work. It’s scare tactics, sure, but it’s literally no different to how things have been for over a decade.

Edit 2: because I’m deep in this rabbit hole now I checked the PS5 license agreement as well, and sure enough there’s a line in there about how updates could render your system unusable if anything unauthorised has been done to it. It’s a completely standard thing. You don’t have to like it, but it is neither new nor unique to the Switch 2.

They already talked on YT and Nintendo they Brick "HomeBrew and Hacked Switches. What are you so afraid of for general consumer user usage? Their EULA/TOS already said this since Wii so nothing is different. This "Fear Mongering" is someone doing Hacking the general consumer has nothing to worry about this. If you feel you can't handle the EULA/TOS return all your electronics as they use the same EULA/TOS nothing is different or changed.

Alright, this is not gonna set a precedent. Because it’s already been set. Check this out: https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/205722-microsoft-bricks-co...

EDIT: In case you think that’s because they violated the NDA, quote from article: “On VMC's side, the contractors violated the NDA in a pretty explicit way. They've been removed from their projects and the company's legal department is looking things over. This is really what you have to expect when breaking an NDA, but the pair also violated the Xbox Live EULA. That's why their personal consoles and accounts are on the chopping block.”

My original Switch it's battery died, well past warranty Nintendo wanted an arm and a leg to repair it, I couldn't see official batteries for sale so I ordered a knock off Chinese one and went inside the Switch, sorted it out and got two years more out of the system, I also sorted out sticks that drift before Nintendo said they'd do it.... There should be a right to fix your gear.

Piracy fair enough but let's be honest if they find a way to brick stuff pirates will find a way to sort it out, and if they wrongly brick anyone's stuff it will breed massive resentment and will push people to piracy and anti Nintendo sentiments.

@kerr9000 Yeah. I feel that if the switch was more repairable to the general consumer it would cost less for Nintendo to repair it since they wouldn’t have to work as hard to. But I guess they ‘have to’ save every penny.

I know at one stage there was a possible European law that was going to come into effect which would make phones and handheld devices be legally required to have easily changeable battery's like unscrew a flap and click them in and out easy. To me this is the way it should be, too many people buy Apple Phones the battery dies in three years but the phone beyond this would be fully functional and could have another 5 years of life in it..

Too long didn't read....We live in a society that's too into things being disposable.

@kerr9000 Personally, I think there should be a way to make the handheld device have a less easy way to get the battery replaced, as that would increase costs by a noticeable amount, but I think that most batteries should not be held in place with glue, instead with screws.

it's gross, but I think Nintendo has had similar agreements from Wii onward. I don't think they ever bricked anyone's Wii, 3DS, Wii U, etc for modding, piracy, etc.

I don’t really care. Not only has that been a part of the EULA ever since the Wii, it’s never gonna happen to the average consumer, and modders already know the risks when modding consoles

Just to reiterate for anyone who’s concerned: I’ve read the relevant part of the EULA, and it absolutely does not mean you’ll get your console bricked for something like replacing the battery or analog sticks. What it means is that if you mod your console, and then a new update is released that changes how something works, there’s a risk that the mod could mean the update breaks the console, and if that happens Nintendo won’t help you. That’s it, nothing more or less. Anyone who says otherwise either hasn’t read it properly or is looking for rage clicks.

You can understand why Nintendo wants to do this but you can also understand its a worry for consumers in that they wonder if their Switch 2 will stop operating some day because a component failed and it looked like a hack attempt. I think with all these things if it makes you uncomfortable and seems like something you don't want, don't buy the hardware.

It's Nintendo's terms and conditions so make a choice whether you want the console with those terms and conditions. It is what it is. I'm sure Switch 2 emulators will be along in a reasonable time line, it seems like already there have been some successful hacks on the console and most of the hardware is well documented both the T239 and the ARM processors. It maybe once Nintendo have bricked the console there will be repair solutions to it in the modding/hacking community. I don't think Nintendo can stop the eventual hacking of the Switch 2 and modding of it or Switch 2 emulators being created. In many countries there is no way they can afford to own a Switch 2 yet they may be desperate to play Switch 2 games. Probably everyone who ends up with a bricked Switch 2 is going to claim they were using it normally and perhaps get a chargeback on their credit card etc.

I mean I live in the EU. Basically 0% chance Nintendo will brick mine so...

@CinnamonRobin
This was the idea i was getting from what i had heard about the EULA stuff, that a lot of it was just standard agreement lingo and that its something which had been in agreements for years across multiple devices (iirc people even pinpointed the sentances in other EULAs which have similar wording) but looking at some discussions in various places it feels like people think that there's some kind of kill code which they remotely send to your system if you do so much as try to repair your device.

Im all for calling out anti consumer BS or for criticising companies but in this case it can feel like there's some misinformation in the wild regarding this kind of thing and a lot of the headlines on news sites didn't help.

also iirc usually when a modding scene on a console gets pretty big (usually by the time a system is on its way out) the community has already found how to do it safely and avoid issues (seems to be the case with the wiiu which from what i gather has a big modding and CFW scene)

Just my opinion: Nintendo doesn't owe anyone anything. It's a company that exists to make money. I think pretty much every major hardware player out there has the ability to do this to you if they feel like they need to protect their IP, security, etc. Doesn't mean they would unless you're doing something nefarious. Are you doing something nefarious?

I also don't get the logic of people needing to have the physical copy of everything. It's just plastic that slowly "melts" over time and becomes un-useable anyway. So yeah, maybe Nintendo can't take a physical game card from you like they can with a digital one, but physics and chemistry eventually will.

And with anything electronics the more you use it the shorter it's lifespan becomes so you Physical Switch 2 will eventually fails because all electronics die or starts the road to the recycle bin. So your digital games doesn't have legs to stand on either.

Be honest, what else are you going to do with a modded switch besides piracy? Even if there are a very small percentage of people who do honest, legal things with a modded console, it is still primarily used for piracy.

The Mariko Switches were capable of running at far higher clock speeds so many have modded and overclocked their Switches so the games they have bought don't struggle with frame rates. What we are seeing with the Switch 2 playing original Switch games is something that has been going on for some time in the modding community. You can have Nintendo Switches that run Android or Linux and many other media players so the Switch becomes an all around more versatile device.

There is a device called a mig cart I think its called that allows you to run original Switch software from a micro sd card that plugs into an un-modded Switch cartridge bay. That is the only thing it can do run pirate games or so called back ups....cough. It doesn't allow you to extend the functionality of the Switch at all, no apps, no operating systems and no overclocking. If you really just want to run pirate games a mig cart is a much better option. Modding a Switch can be difficult the circuit board is tiny. Lots of people want to run their original Switch games with better frame rates.

Overclocking allows up to a 2x CPU boost and a 50% gpu boost. Zelda Breath of the Wild I think can be run at up to 60fps unlocked etc or maybe you can run your Switch 1 games with dynamic resolution scaling but it always stays at the highest resolution etc. A Switch 2 is about 64000 dmips from its CPU but the original Switch is about 18000 dmips less than a third as powerful but a doubling of speed gives you 36000 dmips which is far more competitive. The original PS4 was about 57600 dmips and PS4 Pro is 76,680 dmips (2.13Ghz vs 1.6Ghz). Of course normally the Switch 2 CPU would be a lot more powerful than PS4 but the Switch 2 only runs the CPUs at approx 1Ghz not the 3.3Ghz a 5Nm fabricated A78 can go up to. I have based the Switch 2 dmip figures on the ARM A78 cores providing 8 dmips per mhz. In the Switch 2 the CPU is on a mainly 10 Nm fabrication process with some 8Nm and the figures I have seen have shown between 7 and 12 dmips per mhz but the 12 dmips is on a 5Nm process. The T234 which the T239 is a cutdown version of is about 7 dmips per mhz. They were designed around the same time 2020/2021 and both fabricated on a Samsung 8Nm process (which is actually mainly 10Nm). However if you believe the Switch 2 can achieve higher dmips performance despite its very old fabrication process and not being on the 5Nm fabrication that ARM gives its full performance figures for then it would be 12x1000x8 or 96000 dmips. Also bear in mind the Switch 2 has 68Gb/s memory bandwidth in portable mode and 102GB/s in docked mode. The Switch 1 has 21.3GB/s in portable mode and 25.6GB/s in docked mode so we have over 3x memory bandwidth in portable mode and 4x exactly pretty much in docked mode and most of the memory bandwidth will be graphic data normally in games console and the graphics of the Switch 2 are far more powerful than Switch 1. An overclocked Switch 1 can have a memory bandwidth boost of about 25%, 1600mhz to 2Ghz.

My point is modding a Mariko based Switch like the later normal Switches and OLED plus the Lite model can bring huge performance improvements and reduced battery runtime too of course.

Don't think I'd be pirating, it would just be nice to install some different apps/media and to mess around with the hardware to see what it really can and can't do.