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Topic: Pokémon Sun & Moon - Discussion & Speculation

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Eel

I think the most we had before was in Black and White with the family quiz, the sandwich restaurant and the patrat mini game.

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

Haru17 wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

@Bolt_Strike Well, it's more than Pokemon games usually have...

No, it's not. It's a throwaway sidequest that takes all of 2 minutes. Why is Game Freak making such a big deal about this anyway?

Which is more than Pokemon games usually have. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I did something in a Pokemon game that wasn't A: walking, B: battling, or C: some tedious minigame mode like Super Training or Pokemon Contests. If there's a few of these side quests actually involving the new pokemon, that'll do wonders to develop Alola as a setting. The best Pokemon game I can imagine is one that has a side quest for each new pokemon it introduces, developing their pokedex lore, but in real time. This is ever-so-slightly closer to that.

So a 2 minute minigame offers more than Contests, Secret Bases, the Battle Frontier, the Pokeathlon, Pokestar Studios, and Join Avenue? LOL okay. I'll take any of those over this any day, at least those are fun and give you more to do.

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

He's talking about world building, not content in general.

These little menial activities won't replace, say, contests, but they help give the world a bit of personality.

Specially since the pokedex entry for this Pokemon takes the time to say this kind of thing is usual.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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-Juice-

I for one am happy for aimless sidequests to pad out the adventure and make it feel like I'm actually living in the Pokemon world. Immersion is key.

@Bolt_Strike Stop being such a drama queen. It's not like sidequests are taking the place of mini game institutions. They're just there to make the game feel more alive and varied (rather than just being gym, story, gym, story, gym, story, etc). Not to mention, it's completely optional. If you're going to complain about something optional, complain about life as well, because there a whole bunch of things you can do that you don't have to do out there too.

Edited on by -Juice-

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Bolt_Strike

They don't need to add in a boring sidequest just to make the game feel more alive, there are much better ways to accomplish that goal.Pokeride already does that job well enough and has the potential to add more content to the game. Beyond that, how about sidequests that are actually, you know, sidequests? Something that requires a little more work to complete and has a better reward than just money. This is just a waste of time for something that isn't that fun.

Bolt_Strike

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-Juice-

@Bolt_Strike Then don't do it. Others will enjoy it. Seriously, you're complaining about something that shouldn't affect you at all. It wasn't in any previous games so you're not losing anything by forgoing it, and it's not taking the place of fun institutions so you're not losing anything by it being there. It literally shouldn't affect you. In fact, it'll be a godsend for those who run into a bit of trouble when it comes to in-game currency.

Heck, you should at least be happy that Pokemon are actually adhering to their own lore and appearing in the overworld doing things the 'dex says they do.

Edited on by -Juice-

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DarthNocturnal

@Bolt_Strike

You're making a Mt Moon out of a Diglett-hill.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0
Now Playing: Triangle Strategy (Switch), Spyro: Reignited Trilogy (Xbox), Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door (Gamecube), Codename S.T.E.A.M (3DS), Pokemon Crystal (3DS VC).

Haru17

Bolt_Strike wrote:

So a 2 minute minigame offers more than Contests, Secret Bases, the Battle Frontier, the Pokeathlon, Pokestar Studios, and Join Avenue? LOL okay. I'll take any of those over this any day, at least those are fun and give you more to do.

My problem with all of those activities is that they're all a "mode." Like, you don't walk along a route and run into most of them: You have to go to a specific city, enter a building, and talk to an NPC to start them. I really enjoyed pokemon contests and the underground, but they're both totally ancillary to the main game: a Pokemon game. I just hope they go further in the direction of actually telling stories—role playing—with these creatures.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

-Juice-

@Haru17 What I don't like about battle facilities is that there isn't a title to gain for beating the head honchos. In the main game you get to become the Champion. You actually feel rewarded by getting gym badges. When you beat battle facilities they're all like: Yeah here's a cool little trophy thing for beating something infinitely harder than the Elite Four. They don't even give you good story incentives for competing in the Battle Facilities. I wish the battles took place outside, and that there would be a tournament styled choice list. I also wish there would be some type of special "official" feeling prize for beating whatever you need to beat. Honestly this is why the World Tournament was amazing. I hope they bring something similar to that back, and make up some new type of position higher than Champion (World Champion for instance, something after you beat every other past Champion in the new and improved World Tournament Frontier).

Edited on by -Juice-

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Eel

I actually really love how Shinnoh incorporated the underground.

It was 100% optional, quite fun and worth visiting every now and then.

You didn't go there to have battles, it was all about mining and exploring (and if you had friends, then it was like a whole new game).

And every town had vents to keep it safe, so it was like a real part of the world instead of, say, the online theme park from platinum.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

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Bolt_Strike

Haru17 wrote:

My problem with all of those activities is that they're all a "mode." Like, you don't walk along a route and run into most of them: You have to go to a specific city, enter a building, and talk to an NPC to start them. I really enjoyed pokemon contests and the underground, but they're both totally ancillary to the main game: a Pokemon game. I just hope they go further in the direction of actually telling stories—role playing—with these creatures.

That's a pretty nitpicky difference to claim that it offers less than a minor sidequest. Fact is, they offer much, much more content that the Pyukumuku throwing. And until I see any indication that this is anything comparable in scale to those "modes" there's nothing to really get excited about. It's just objectively not on the same level.

Bolt_Strike

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-Juice-

@Tsurii I agree. I'd even like full fledged character side stories that you can do at any point while playing the game. Like, imagine things like the Delta Episode and the Looker Sidequest being available all over the Pokemon world for you to do as soon as you discover a new area. Not only does that open up a lot of optional things for you to do during the main playthrough and postgame, but it really gives all of these side characters some actual depth (not to mention it makes the game feel a bit more real, because there's no way your character would realistically only go from gym to gym to gym. It'd burn them out!)

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Silly_G

A random idea just sprung to mind that I would like to see incorporated into the Pokémon franchise...

For sexless, magnet/data-based Pokémon such as Magnemite, Rotom, Porygon, Klink, Beldum etc., I think they should introduce an Electric Charge category so that they can be either Positive/Negative in lieu of Male/Female. This could result in a new egg group (Magnetic?) in which such Pokémon are not forced to breed with Ditto in order to reproduce. Pokémon such as Klink and Magnemite will finally be able to breed and potentially pass on traits, egg moves etc. It's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, yes, but it could pave the way for some interesting possibilities in-game. Perhaps pairing Positive/Negative Pokémon could have consequences (or benefits) during Double/Triple Battles (such as two adjacent Pokémon of the same charge being unable to attack, while two adjacent Pokémon of opposite charges will benefit each other). A magnetic Pokémon will also be incapable of physically attacking a Pokémon of the same charge as it (special attacks will be unaffected), while physical attacks toward a Pokémon of an opposite charge could deal greater damage.

To avoid Wobbuffet v.s. Wobbuffet style situations, two adjacent same-charge Pokémon can suffer from a bit of damage each turn, and players should finally be able to choose precisely how many Pokémon they would like to use during a double/triple/rotation battle, rather than being forced to use multiple Pokémon at a time.

Other sexless and legendary Pokémon can remain as such, however.

Edited on by Silly_G

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Bolt_Strike

Tsurii wrote:

God forbid an RPG actually having some world building...

Go back to playing X and Y or the Gen 1 games if you hate learning bits and pieces about a region and its people so much and enjoy your bland, empty Kalos and Kanto.

Who said I wanted a bland, empty region? There's a world of difference between those two feelings, what I'm saying is that the bits and pieces do little to nothing to create that feeling and you need something on a larger scale to create that sense of world building. Kalos had similar bits and pieces to it and that didn't save the region from feeling bland and empty, it was bland and empty because it didn't have substance, there was too little extra content to really flesh out the region. This suffers a similar problem, and overall we haven't seen the game as a whole rectify the problem either. We don't have that big sidequest like the Contests, Secret Bases, etc. of past regions that really made the game and the region feel alive.

Bolt_Strike

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DarthNocturnal

Well, we once had the Game Corner... but the UK took it from us.

I feel sorry for that former owner in OR/AS.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0
Now Playing: Triangle Strategy (Switch), Spyro: Reignited Trilogy (Xbox), Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door (Gamecube), Codename S.T.E.A.M (3DS), Pokemon Crystal (3DS VC).

Silly_G

DarthNocturnal wrote:

Well, we once had the Game Corner... but the UK took it from us.

Western classification bodies are generally much MUCH stricter now when it comes to gambling content in their games since the early days of the 3DS' lifespan. Pokémon Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold and Silver were originally classified G in Australia with no consumer warning whatsoever. Beginning with Crystal version through to Platinum (which was the last Pokémon game to have the Game Corner in Australia), the games were classified PG for "Mild gambling references", despite Red/Blue/Yellow/Gold/Silver containing the very same "gambling" content. I suspect that if any of the original Pokémon games were to be reclassified today (and they legally do not need to be reclassified in Australia so long as the content remains the same, no matter what platform it is released on), they could receive a classification as high as M (!) for "Simulated gambling" (Australia's M rating is roughly equivalent to PEGI's 12 rating and ESRB's T rating). Similarly, the original games were recently rated 12 by PEGI. A far cry from the 3 rating given to HeartGold/SoulSilver/Black/White and the like.

Australia is perhaps the strictest concerning gambling content, giving games such as Mario Party DS, Wario Land: The Shake Dimension and even Wii Party U PG ratings for "Mild gambling references", even though I struggle to discern exactly what these gambling references that they are referring to are (and they seem to interpret "gambling" very loosely). More recently, Kirby: Planet Robobot was rated PG for "Mild violence and gambling references", however, I am yet to buy the game and cannot comment. The other classification bodies have made no reference to any form of gambling whatsoever in their classifications of the aforementioned games.

Up until around 5-6 years ago, I had never seen a game receive a classification greater than PG for gambling content. Now it seems that games with any type of "realistic" gambling content (whether it be a game of blackjack or a slot machine etc.) are now slapped with an M rating by default.

The hypocrisy here is that a game like Pokémon Shuffle, which is rated G, allow players to spend REAL currency for the mere CHANCE to beat a stage more easily (and there's no guarantee that they will), which I would argue is far more detrimental and would constitute gambling to a greater degree than the arguably innocuous content contained in Red/Blue/Yellow, which use only virtual currency, and the gambling content in the Pokémon games constitutes an incidental, almost negligible part of the overall experience to the point that it isn't much of a concern (except for those obsessively trying to get their hands on a Porygon).

In my opinion, games that contain any kind of gambling with real currency should be given an adult rating (18+). Just as a child would be barred access from the facilities of a casino, so should children be barred from accessing games that encourage the use of real money for only the chance to advance through a game.

Edited on by Silly_G

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Araquanid

At the same time, there should be a distinct boundry between casual friendly gambling, and mature gambling. By default anything that has any sort of gambling should be M or above in your ratings or in general by the current system's ratings.

Yet you look at other categories like blood or gore and there is a distinct difference between the games that are M and T. For example, a zombie game thats rated T would have some gore it in since the zombies on constantly bleeding, or losing limbs, but then in say halo reach, there is just the blood of your character should you get hurt, yet the different is T for the zombie game, M for halo.

Its not like kirby 64 was rated T for the bleeding zero two at the end, or earthbound being T for the several suggestive themes, crude humor, and I think some gambling. What about diamond pearl or platinum when you had to pick a lottery number for a chance to get a master ball or something like that? Was that gambling?

Edited on by Araquanid

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DarthNocturnal

They could make other mini-games in replacement... although, the last (and only) time they did that, we got Voltorb Flip. I HATE Voltorb Flip.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0
Now Playing: Triangle Strategy (Switch), Spyro: Reignited Trilogy (Xbox), Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door (Gamecube), Codename S.T.E.A.M (3DS), Pokemon Crystal (3DS VC).

Araquanid

Who wanted voltorb flip to unlock ANYTHING in the games?

They couldn't think of something different?

3DS FC: 0774-5098-1425
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