Soapbox features enable our individual writers and contributors to voice their opinions on hot topics and random stuff they've been chewing over. Today, Kate examines how Nintendo learned economic lessons from past Zelda games in Tears of the Kingdom...
Much like me, Hyrule has always been bad with money. It's hardly surprising. In an economy where you can find cold, hard cash in rocks, trees, bushes, pots, grass, and even sometimes just lying on the floor, you don't have to be a financial expert to know that you're going to experience inflation at some point.
In most games, money is used for things that make the game better, like upgrades, new weapons, and new skills, but in Zelda games, those things are goddess-sent. Why buy new weapons when you have the Master Sword? Why acquire new skills when dungeons provide you with all you need? Why purchase an upgrade when you can just wander into a cave and find a Great Fairy to do it for free?
And so, the money problem is compounded: you eventually have a lot of it, and you have very little to spend it on, which leaves the poor Rupee feeling undervalued and useless. So why have Rupees at all?
The problem is that games are all about dopamine. We play games like mice in a maze, racing towards the delicious cheese prize. We are reward-oriented creatures, and that means we have to have something to entice us into exploring, discovering, and excitedly opening chests in the hopes of finding something new, which in turn means that the designers need to come up with something to put in those chests that doesn't break the game. Hence, Rupees – something that isn't even really a prize in itself, but a promise of being able to obtain a greater prize in future through the exchange of money for goods.
Therein lies the rub: Rupees are not prizes in themselves; they have to be worth something, they have to be put towards a purchase, for them to have any value to the player. When Zelda games struggle to offer exciting purchases, Rupees in a chest might as well be a piece of paper that says, "You did it, here's a gold star!"
Past Zelda games have attempted to iterate on the Rupee economy to make it a little more exciting, but they've all failed:
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Ocarina of Time has multiple Wallet sizes, each with limited capacity, but this feels like a restriction for the sake of restriction; if Link can carry bombs, shields, three changes of tunic, multiple pairs of shoes, and an entire chicken in his pockets, why not a little more money?
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Majora's Mask resets your Rupees at the start of each cycle, making them more precious, but then also introduces a bank that is somehow causality-proof that can retain Rupees across cycles, nullifying the point of the reset entirely
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The Wind Waker makes you pay Tingle for plot-required items, and later on introduces the Magic Armor, which consumes Rupees instead of hearts for damage – but that just reinforces the uselessness of Rupees, especially in the late game
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Phantom Hourglass introduced the Rupoor, which subtracts Rupees from your wallet, but you could easily make that money back from a single treasure haul
You get my point. Opening a chest containing Rupees in a Zelda game began to feel like some cosmic joke being played on you, like a Christmas present of socks (again). Slowly, though, over the course of the last few Zelda games, things started to change.
Skyward Sword introduced Treasures – not the first time they had appeared in games, of course, but the first time they existed free from the economy. You could sell them, but they were primarily used to upgrade weapons and items, like a crafting system. Suddenly, a treasure chest was a more enticing proposition, because it might contain a rare Treasure instead of a cache of pennies.
In Breath of the Wild, this expanded further from Treasures into Materials. Again, you could sell them, or you could cook with them, craft with them, upgrade armour with them, or create stat-boosting and survival-encouraging elixirs. Even the item descriptions steered you towards putting these resources to good use: "You could sell it to a store," reads the description of a dragon's claw, "but it must have some other use."
Weapon degradation gave the designers something to put in the insane number of chests sprinkled throughout Hyrule – the cheese in the open-world maze
But the big change to Breath of the Wild's treasure system was a controversial one. Weapons would now break after just a few uses, despite that being something that swords and shields are specifically designed not to do. The weapon degradation system came from a place of well-intentioned design, which hoped that players would be more willing to experiment, mix things up, and not be too precious about their sword hoard; it also gave the designers something to put in the insane number of chests sprinkled throughout Hyrule – the cheese in the open-world maze.
But players didn't like the weapon degradation system in BOTW, did they? It felt fussy, unfair, and irritating, especially when having to change weapons in the midst of a tense boss battle. Besides, isn't the Master Sword supposed to be a bit more powerful and longer-lasting than a dish sponge? Hasn't it already survived through hundreds of years of Zelda lore? Why has it been nerfed to little more than a pointy stick that needs naps? Sure, the treasure chests in Hyrule had renewed purpose, but only thanks to a system akin to someone snapping all your pencils.
Enter Tears of the Kingdom, with its narrative reasoning for weapon degradation (bad magic made the weapons rot!) and its Fuse system (stick a chicken leg onto a spear to make a +5 Chicken Spear!). Fundamentally, they haven't changed the number of items in the game that much – you can still get Bokoblin Fangs, Rusty Halberds, and dragon scales – but suddenly, the combinatorial possibilities turn weapon degradation and treasure hunting into a whole new ball game.
Everything is now a treasure worth having, limited only by your imagination. Do you like keeping your distance from enemies? Combine a crappy spear with another crappy spear to make a DOUBLE CRAPPY SPEAR, which is twice as long! Are you about to fight a Lynel, and you're aiming to not die a billion times? Combine your Extra Durable wooden club with one of your rarest materials – a Black Bokoblin Horn, maybe, or a Diamond – to make something that can take chunks out of that Lynel's health bar in one swipe. Every single treasure chest is either an exciting unknown or a genuine gift, something that you can actually use immediately rather than putting it in a pot of money for some as-yet-undecided purpose.
isn't the Master Sword supposed to be a bit more powerful and longer-lasting than a dish sponge?
Rupees still exist in TOTK's Hyrule, of course, and they can still – rarely – be found under rocks and in pots, mostly just as a fun callback to the olden times, but thanks to the ubiquity and variety of degraded weapons and treasures for fusing, Rupees no longer need to bear the weight of player dopamine generation. They are obtained instead as rewards for quests, or through selling items to merchants, and only very occasionally as treasure chest prizes (or as the lifeblood of a poor Blupee). You know, like actual money. It's almost like the Rupee has been allowed to retire comfortably after carrying the treasure economy of Hyrule on its glittering back for decades; allowed to sink back into an economy of currency that makes sense.
Listen, I know a lot of you are probably still up in arms (heh) about weapon degradation continuing to exist in Tears of the Kingdom. I understand – it's still a little fussy, a little irritating, and a little unfair. But the trade-off is that every single cave, every chest, every Bokoblin camp, is exciting again. Money is more precious, too, as it should be, because it has more prizes to compete with.
You see, dopamine isn't actually about rewards. It's not about the cheese at the end of the maze. Dopamine is the thing that drives you to go towards those rewards – which means that it's actually all about expectations. You are far more likely to be excited to find a chest and open the chest than to have what's inside the chest. That's the thrilling part. When you know that a chest is likely to contain the same exact prize as the last ten chests, that excitement is lesser, and the dopamine hit is, too.
But in Tears of the Kingdom, with its hundreds of items, weapons, clothing, shields, bows, arrows, et cetera et cetera, every chest is an unknown, and even when you have the thing that was in the chest, there's still the unknown of what it does when fused with other items.
The joy is in the not knowing, and Tears of the Kingdom is the most unknowable Zelda game there's ever been. I hope I never know it all. I hope there's always a little bit more cheese hidden away in that maze somewhere.
Comments 110
happy to see kate back but... that title phrasing is not it, lol
Weapon Degradation <----- Making games annoying. Not a fan.
I love that trade is a thing. So acorns for milk, milk for cheese and whatnot. I also like that the game eats arrows like water, as I buy them and use amiibo. BOTW got to a point that I always had money and more weapons than I needed. So far TotK hit a sweet spot. Basically the economy makes rupees feel like they have value. And if you are flush you can just use the armor that eats rupees. Also bump weapons and rupees… I am glad that dragon farming and star fragments are way easier to farm (with out gaming the system). I like upgrading armor now.
Oh, an article by Kate! What a nice surprise. Always glad to see her back.
Weapon degradation is great anyway, makes you use a variety of weapons rather than just one or two all game like most adventure games. It just adds to the exploration and makes finding better ones that much more fun!
Every podcast. Every article. Tears of the kingdom. Is there literally anything else that nintendo sites and podcasts could comment on. Last night I had to find some retro neo geo podcast to regain sanity.
@KateGray
Is this a one off? Are you back for realsies?
The fuse system is fun for the first hour or so, after that it gets tedious whenever you find a new weapon. Having to spend time fusing it to make the most of it.
Really hope this goes away in the next game.
I hated the weapon degradation in BOTW and still do but rather like it here as it keeps giving me reasons to experiment with such a vast array of items, the exception being the Master Sword and I still don't think it's necessary to confiscate it every 5 minutes.
As for rupees, whilst they aren't necessary to play through the game, they're obviously needed for armour upgrades and a lot are needed for a fun side quest. I seem to be able to get plenty of rupees, many side quests seem to give me 100, plus there's that guy with the sign and the many many blupees to farm
Never completely got the hate for the weapon durability system. Sure, it's annoying at times but if your weapons never break, you never use a different one. Maybe a durability counter would make it better.
The weapons degradation system in BotW and TotK is great if you embrace it. I'm using and throwing weapons about like candy and it's great fun. People who keep complaining about it are just too stubborn to give it a go and find out how quick paced and chaotic the combat can be.
The secret is to throw weapons at enemies as a form of crowd control instead of waiting for them to nearly break.
I don’t really break a lot of weapons so I have never hated the weapon system. I agree with users that say weapons breaking forces variety. And with fuse that is 10 fold. Especially when I compare to say Assassins’s Creed where I have 50 swords and 50 bows but only really use 5 of each now. Meanwhile in Zelda I actually cycle through weapons and armor. It really depends on how you get that dopamine hit. Personally I hate that plateau where you have the best gear and enemies are just a button mashing triviality instead of actually some semblance of a combat challenge. I loved having to make ambush strategies using runes and the environment and ToTK keeps that up.
Nice to see Kate back =) I've had a hard time trying to make some Rupees in this game, no easy moneyz for me ><
Everyone knows, the true currency of Hyrule is arrows.
That title is very badly worded. Wow
I have had some seat of the pants gameplay moments that Indiana Jones would be proud of!
The issue with limited wallet size and rupees eventually becoming unnecessary was a very, very minor problem that didn't really need fixing. Like so many things about the modern Zeldas, they've over-corrected and ended up with something worse.
Weapon degradation, crafting materials and cooking have simply made the games become more fussy (add stamina to that list). Nintendo used to be able to spot the ideas that didn't work and discard them, but it's not been so good at this since Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild. Even though they at first appear to be very different styles, they both have a focus on combat, materials and, with BotW/TotK, breakable weapons. To me, it feels like they don't want the player to be at ease. You never have the satisfaction of knowing you possess some really good gear that's going to last you through your battles.
Zelda is now much more influenced by action games and RPGs than it used to be, which is odd, because its brilliance was that it knew how to avoid the excesses of both.
Are people really triggered by the "Great Again" part of the title? Why not just enjoy the content of the article?
Weapons breaking is not for me.
I think Zelda has struggled with making rupees useful since its move to 3D, although The Wind Waker seemed to have more stuff to buy (and maps to translate). To nitpick a minor inconsistency, it's actually Twilight Princess that had the rupee-draining armor, not TWW.
I do agree that BotW and TotK (moreso) do a good job with rewards for the most part. Armor sets are particularly rewarding, and they demand lots of materials for the best defensive ratings which can mean the difference between victory and defeat. That said, I still wish there was a way to quickly convert weapons/shields/bows into rupees or Zonaite or something on the spot, since my limited inventory still makes finding treasure into a bit of a crap shoot.
this might be the worst article title on this site.
I don’t mind weapons breaking, off topic a bit here but the things that seem a little griping are bugs and certain foods that seem to be extremely hard to get hold of now, I’ve noticed this a lot in Lurelin Village, bugs no longer spawn on the palm trees and not many crabs crawling around, not that I have seen anyway, the rivers in the game seem to run more quickly than they did in BoTW too
I didn't dislike the weapon degradation in Breath of the Wild, but did eventually settle into that common routine of long-time BotW players: avoiding low-level battles and saving my best weapons for difficult enemies, which eventually leads to senseless hoarding. I still do that in Tears of the Kingdom, but far less, because the fusing possibilities mean that I can make new powerful weapons on the fly with the right materials. So I'm getting into more battles, willingly, just to expand my combinatorial possibilities.
As for rupees, I do think they're fairly important in the early game, since you have to buy a lot of armor sets for environmental hazards and combat. I ]agree Zelda games have struggled to give rupees purpose in the past, outside of the very first game, where buying items and health potions is worth doing (and where rupees essentially play the role of experience points). In later games, they're relevant early on and then eventually become useless, since you have no long-term, late-game purchase goals (and the games are easier, so you don't need to buy health potions as much).
I wish that instead of weapon degradation we would have been able to just enhance weapons in the same way that we do armor in the game. I wouldn't mind fewer weapons but with more unique traits either. Like a fire sword that gets more fiery with upgrades. As it is now I just use whatever weapon I pick up and snap whatever strongest fusion material I have on it. This actually just makes everything feel even more same-y. There's no real difference between a traveler's spear and a soldier spear beside one tiny thing, which tends to get negated since the weapon is bound to break after killing the third or fourth enemy. It was a missed opportunity to make side quests even more rewarding if it gave you a unique weapon or materials to enhance said unique weapon. What a shame...oh well there's always the next Zelda game!
I've always been baffled at everybody parroting each other that weapon degradation is the worst thing ever.
I played now over a hundred hours of TotK and it hasn't ever been an issue. The one part of the game I can consider even close to tedious is accidentally activating your hero abilities when attempting to collect materials and...yeah, no, that's pretty much it. Weapon degradation hasn't bothered me once.
I actually enjoyed weapon degradation in botw and totk. It made combat more interesting than spamming a or b
I love weapon degrading it is a necessary evil. Having weapons that never break would make combat trivial and boring. I love of how in most BOTW/TOTK combat you are just making it up as you go. Though we should be able to repair weapons.
@LawnChairMan I agree
Also I forgot to mention that we should be able to how much a weapon is degraded. Either in a Minecraft system or a X/100
MAZA
Make Zelda Great Again
Personally, I like the weapon degradation.
@MatthewTaranto It was rupee draining in wind waker HD(not the original). Which why it was probably put in the article.
Weapon degradation never really bothered me all that much, it's always exciting to find the next new cool sword or what have you. and I think in TotK, they've tweaked things slightly. My weapons do seem to last noticeably longer than in BotW, especially after fusing.
But, the one aspect I take issue with relates to certain classic Zelda weapons I've found throughout the world. Apparently these one of a kind weapons can break too. I seldom ever use them because of that fact. I have my usual set of armaments, and a bunch of precious antiques taking up space.
@Devann
You mean Nintendo Life's best writer?
Weapon Degradation has never been great and will never be great!
@pspooky strange way to spell "sensationalist".
I miss the days you could farm rupees slowly but surely by cutting grass with your sword for 3 hours straight.
As for weapon degradation, although I would prefer not to have it at all, it's not the degradation itself that is annoying, it's the fact that you always have to pause an exciting fight halfway through (or 1/10th of the way through) to swap out weapons. It both destroys your tempo while simultaneously being kind of outside of the game since reality pauses while swapping weapons. If weapon degradation was slower, visible, and actually punished you for breaking in an in-game way (e.g.you didn't watch the degradation bar and therefore you occasionally get knocked flat in the middle of a fight as your weapon explodes), it would be infinitely better. Just adding lore to a badly designed system doesn't actually make it better.
As for Tears of the Kingdom, the game literally has gacha machines, so they could have easily super-charged the rupee economy that way if they had wanted.
Remember when Link fused an arrow to a Rupee every time he used it?
Is it just me or do weapons break way faster in TotK than in BotW? In BotW, I felt the complaint was blown out of proportion. Weapons lasted a while, but in this game I've burned through several very high level weapons just fighting through a few basic enemy camps.
@sketchturner I think that's probably because of the whole Upheaval weapon decay thing which I never really got.
absurd i noticed most of the game itens(specialy armor set, seen to have suffered a increase in price) absurd 5.000 Rupees for the Stealth Set? 4.500 Poes for the Dark Link/Depth armor set, it seens inflation has hit Hyrule hard.
“Ocarina of Time has multiple Wallet sizes, each with limited capacity, but this feels like a restriction for the sake of restriction; if Link can carry bombs, shields, three changes of tunic, multiple pairs of shoes, and an entire chicken in his pockets, why not a little more money?”
Because that’s the sense of progression that TOTK and BOTW fail at. A meaningful reward after solving a sidequest or reaching a difficult chest is a bigger wallet… which in turn means higher capacity of money… which in turn means the ability to buy more expensive items… which in turn means you can access new places with your newly bought items.
THAT’S what’s a big failure of these new games.
I’d rather have the surprise of getting as a reward a bigger wallet than my 100th amber AGAIN or grind for materials that I’m getting from the start of the adventure.
I mean, I shouldn’t have to explain the purpose of money in video games or IRL. 🙄
Planned obsolescence is what happens in Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild.
But there's a lot wrong with this thesis.
In previous games money was used for fun mini games, and often story or side quest items.
There's many uses for money in Majora's Mask (maps and the quest to upgrade your sword come to mind), and saving at the bank turns out to be an end in itself.
Rupees are also shiny, making them fun to collect, like power stars, coins, jiggies or notes; sometimes it is just that basic and intuitive.
The limits on how many weapons you can hold suffer from same issue of limited wallets in previous games.
And you can go through a whole difficult quest, not knowing what the reward will be, to find that it is a great weapon that you do not have space for, forcing you to discard a weapon you like (by late game you'll have filtered it out to only have weapons you like) or face having to do the whole quest again (depends on what it is, but certainly in shrines) which is obnoxious.
And as many people have pointed out, in Tears of the Kingdom the opposite problem is also true, chests for tricky tasks often have something almost completely worthless. 5 arrows for something that cost me 20 arrows to achieve? BIMMY!
And the rupee is still essential in Tears of the Kingdom for armour for certain environments, but with rupees scarce. It's a major flaw with the early game. Don't have enough materials to make enough food that will get you through this temple or didn't have enough rupees to buy the gear to do so? ***** you, leave the whole temple to accumulate these and then come back to the boss! Awful game design. The rupee is far from retired; it's more important than ever due to wildly overrpriced items. Live out UK energy price inflation in your favourite games, yay!
As I've discussed a few times, weapon degradation is good to entice early game exploration, but in the late game there needs to be an option to keep them (hey they could have you spend rupees on that!) as you are now exploring for its own sake, know which weapons you like, and are running out of space.
The degradation actually makes weapons less valuable as a prize, knowing that you can't keep it, making you even afraid to use it.
And I love getting socks for Christmas these days.
For me weapon decay doesn’t make treasures exciting. It makes it boring. Like when you reach the end of a particularly long Skyrim dungeon only to find an elixir of resist lightening and an unenchanted Dwemer warhammer. Disposable things you spent more resources getting to than you’ll get out of them. It’s why I couldn’t get into BotW after pushing through for a good thirty hours across two attempted playthrough. And why I won’t be buying tears of the kingdom. It just makes the open world feel barren, empty and pointless when the only reward is consumables. Even if you can smash said consumables together.
I've noticed they've been trying to fix the rupee economy ever since WW and I'm glad they've been progressively successful. It's just as Kate says, a hidden chest was way less exciting in OoT than it is now on TotK
Glad Kate’s back! I had a hard time with Rupees at first, but after spending way too much time in caves…it’s been easier to snag them.
I do wish for a weapon crafting/repair option, but…weapons and materials come so quickly, it’s not a huge deal.
I was always so thrilled to get a colourful sparkly thing from a chest that I never really considered its function in the wider economy.
Rupees just look so… pretty. One of my favourite parts of Four Swords was all the sparkly jewels you could get, even though you couldn’t actually spend them on anything.
…I think I’m basically Tingle.
Not sure how people have money issues on TotK. I have hundreds of gems and monster parts to make money out of and basically be able to buy anything I need.
I like that they finally made rupees have a reason to exist and that they make you choose wisely on what you are willing to sell and balance your inventory the way you choose.
Welcome back, Kate!
Rupees have never felt like a big deal. I just use them to buy ingredients I haven't found enough of. If I need more rupees, I sell ingredients I have too many of. It all works out fine. It's another part of the resource scavenging cycle.
TotK has definitely made weapons more interesting, as you say, with all the varieties and combinations it lets you play with.
@Madao
I think it mostly comes down to the materials being used by the great fairies, and for side quests. And going in blind to TOTK, while also having played BOTW previously, many people are hesitant to part with their inventories, until upgrades are being made, and side quests are being completed.
My first time playing BOTW, I sold a bunch of gems in the early game for rupees, and then I was sorely lacking in the many hundreds of gems that the fairies want once it's time for upgrades. Handing over valuable monster parts to Kilton for Mon also contributed to these problems. So, in any subsequent play-throughs on normal mode, I did not repeat this mistake, and hoarded aggressively all potentially valuable materials.
This was actually less of an issue in the "Master Mode" of the game provided by the BOTW DLC, as in that mode, they handed out gems like candy on the floating platforms, and higher level enemies that drop gems and more valuable/frequent monster parts started spawning sooner. So on the subject of rewards, the reward for playing a mode with harder combat difficulty instead of normal mode, was completely trivializing the economy, ensuring your wallet was always full, and being able to buy anything and everything at your leisure. In short, they removed the "grind", and let people focus on the gameplay.
@Uncle_Franklin yep. And that’s why item duplication is great. It fights overpriced armor so I get to use it in the game.
On weapon degradation, I think the issue is with the master items like your Master Sword and the special weapons (Great Eagle Bow, etc). It doesn’t make narrative sense — here is the God Weapon that you earned by … oh! Gee! It’s TiReD and needs to rEsT! And it makes Link less powerful which at that point in the game is imo a blight on the storytelling.
I have the same issue in Animal Crossing when you earn the gold tools and they break.
If they had a smith or someone who could repair your weapons it would have made more sense in BOTW. TOTK system of abilities just seem a bit of a stranger selection than BOTW. Sure fuse can make items last longer, but the concept is kinda strange.
BOTW was a sandbox physics game, so magnesis and stasis to impart momentum etc made sense.
TOTK is kind of a sandbox steampunk physics game. Ultrahand makes sense and is probably the best thing about TOTK. Fuse only makes sense because of ultrahand. Ascend doesn’t really make a huge amount of sense. Recall I’m on the fence about - I haven’t finished the game waiting to see if it ties in with time travel or something. And link is making an infinity gauntlet? If he snaps his fingers at the end I’ll never play Zelda again.
Good article. Kind of off topic but ever since TOTK came out there's the same 5 or so commentators in these comments sections writing essays about why it's actually a bad game. Find something better to do guys
@sketchturner Land on a dragon. They have 12 spike shards. Fuse one of these to your weapon, and not only will it be a lot more powerful, the durability seems to be increased 10 fold (I’m guessing here, but man do they last a lot longer).
Ahh! It's @KateGray! What a pleasant surprise!
NO SLEEP FOR ME
NO SLEEP FOR ME
I absolutely loved this article. I normally skim through most, but this one had me hooked. Well done!
The only reason I need rupees is for ingredient purchases, arrows and, most importantly, armors.
Armors are the biggest reason I find a use for rupees.
@sixrings I imagine it would work just as well doing that tonight! Or at least it would work better than going to a Nintendo site and clicking on a TotK article. It's a big release...
My TOTK financial experience can be summed up as follows...
I am a purveyor of fine meats.
Thankfully, the amiibo usually supply me with an ample supply so that I can usually buy what I like without having to grind for resources.
Weapon degradation is the best thing to ever happen to open world games.
@Manxman64 Eh let em. It promotes more engagement on the topic which gets more people talking about the game. Which can prompt more folks to buy the game. Especially the ones that scream about Aonuma poisoning the well. As if he hasn’t had a direct hand in most of the old games they love so much. Now all of a sudden he doesn’t know what he is doing …meanwhile the world loves these games.
@KateGray, is this a one-time thing, or are you back for good? Either way, it’s nice to an article by you!
Removed - unconstructive feedback
Good article. The weapons breaking is great. Adds peril and causes you to think on your feet and keeps combat from getting stuck in a rut.
Agree that rupees in the older Zelda games became completely inconsequential at a certain point in the game. When you'd open a chest in Link to the Past and get a rupee you'd start to feel cheated.
The first thing that popped into my head when I saw who wrote this article was "Wait, Kate? Great!" But I won't post that comment here because I have standards.
Link is without a doubt the poorest person in Hyrule
@LikelySatan
Hey Satan. Just wanted you to know I’m doing my best not to click and comment on these TOTK posts but hey temptation gets the best of us. Anyways since I’ve already showed my allegiance by clicking and commenting I’ll just point out how many “news” articles there has been on this site in the last month. 221!!!!! Two hundred and twenty one. What the fork. Based on how many articles this site has pumped out you would think the Nintendo switch is going to fall off a cliff with no news once zelda is done being talked about. How about IGN NVC. They have a weekly Nintendo podcast which has for 7 consecutive weeks somehow managed to make tears of the kingdom their exclusive talking point. I’m almost about to sell my soul for any new content. Call me up and we can make a deal.
Love to see Kate back with this article (even in case it's just a one-off) and yeah, overall agree with it!
@Mrkittyhead @Kiwi_Unlimited it's just a one-off, I'm afraid... except I'll be writing more one-offs in future, too!
I actually used to hate the weapon degradation when it was first introduced in BOTW, but now I have come to appreciate the strategizing it presents when dealing with a difficult mob encounter.
I know it's not the point of the article about this actually an in-game explanation for why the bank in Majora's Mask works through cycles.
The bank actually works with some sort of stamp system (I'm imagining like ink stamps on your body but I don't actually know for sure). So every time you change your rupee amount, the banker adds/removes/changes the stamps on your body.
Since your body goes back in time, the rupee amount you have deposited is always accurate through cycles. Well, accurate for you at least... Since you never deposited the money in this cycle, you're actually stealing from the banker lol
Actually most Zelda games are well balanced when it comes to the rupees you come across in the majority of the game. The wallet size is there as an additional quality of life reward and also prevents you from spending too many rupees in the early game on a single thing. Keeping in mind you can technically always farm more rupees if you really want to but it's really tedious and not really supposed to do that. Late-game, yeah they are kind of a non issue, and there isn't really enough stuff to spend them on, which is why they added the rupee draining armor and other rupee-sinks, as their end-game usefulness is limited. Most games have this "issue", really, if you find most/all of the treasures, you end up with too much money, that's just natural, as the game is not really balanced around finding every single thing, that would be a big ask for the average player.
I agree with this, I actually kind like the weapon mechanics in both games. I think it's better now though - I did hoard a bit in BOTW because I was more concerened about losing a particular weapon, whereas with materials I can pull something that approximates it anytime now.
The one issue I disagree with is treasure chests being more exciting - when you've got ten opals in a row from the optional chests in shrines, you become a little bit less interested in continuing to do them haha
As the old saying goes, a Kate Gray day is a good day.
Shocked no one has mentioned A Link Between Worlds - I feel like that game handled the rupee economy better than pretty much any other, with all items being rentals which could eventually be purchased, giving them an upgraded power. Rupees really felt integrated into the core experience in a way that no other Zelda game has managed.
@NinjaNicky Absolutely. It sucks for me. Not fun at all to faff around in menus mid-battle and is one of the main the reason I just gave up on BOTW eventually.
I hope the standard size traditional 3D Zeldas with weapons that don't collapse aren't dead forever...
Nope, the joy for me is definitely not in not knowing. And I still don’t like weapon degradation. 🙄
@NinjaNicky I know right?
The narrative reasoning for weaponing degradation is probably one of the lamest excuses I've ever heard. I guess this means every Sword Axe and Shield in the Elder Scrolls games should just fall to pieces too spontaneously because everyone knows the land there is full of magic. At least in those games weapons break through actual long use but here? it just makes the game a chore in its own way and don't get me started on having to keep going through menus either. Yes it's definitely an improvement over Breath of the Wild's weapon degradation but nevertheless it still exists when it shouldn't.
Weapon degradation is terrible, puts me off replaying BOYW and made me switch off TOTK after a few hours. I don’t mind weapons weakening (like in Monster Hunter) and needing sharpening or upgrading, but having to carry around dozens of items just in case one breaks during battle is messy and annoying. Give me back the old Zelda ranked swords anyday, along with decent shields.
Weapon degradation was my least favourite feature in BOTW, but I like how they addressed it with Fuse. They really did listen to the feedback. But instead of taking the suggestions literally (i.e. remove weapons degradation), they incorporated it into the gameplay.
@sketchturner They brake faster than in BotW if you don't fuse them with anything. If you do they brake much slower, maybe even slower than in BotW, I'm not quite sure.
@Gamecuber "Having to carry around dozens of items". Do you like want to refuse to even pick up weapons? Carrying them is not annoying at all because they're just in a menu. How does that make anything annoying?
@BTB20 They still break and that's the problem. Permanently losing an item that took time and effort to make is never a good thing.
The worst example of useless rupees was Twilight Princess. Every chest contained either rupees or heart piece. And you almost never needed to use the rupees for anything. The game was also so pathetically easy you really didn't need the heart pieces either outside of those you get from bosses.
In BotW you constantly needed rupees for arrows and opening the great fairies, and in TotK you'd better have some cash everytime you need to upgrade armorsets. Hearts are needed so you don't get killed instantly by stronger enemies, because unlike the earlier game they can actually hit 10 + hearts away from you if you haven't upgraded armor. In the older games enemies were much weaker.
I also like the fact there's more than rupees and heartpieces in chests.
As for weapon breaking it's a great game mechanic, imo, because it guarantees you're not using the same boring sword all the time.
That being said, TotK did it even better because you can repair the weapons if you want.
@rushiosan It’s annoying because all I want is a sword and shield, just like in the older games. Ingredients and ammunition in menus is fine (as I said on my previous post I played Monster Hunter plenty in the past) but constantly worrying about my weapon breaking and then having to dig into a menu to find something else to fight with, which is far weaker and even more prone to breaking) is a chore. Then to finally get the Master Sword, only to find that it needs to ‘recharge’? Urgh! The more I think about it the more I dislike both modern Zelda games even more…
@Cia Except you are. At the end of BotW, you only care about Royal gear because endgame enemies get 10x more health and no other weapon gets enough durability to stand a single encounter. In Silver Lynel fights, you switch between everything you have at your inventory and ends up wasting at least 3 good melee weapons. For what? Are the rewards really worth that much? Anyway, the strategy is always: 1- Farm Durians, cook all five in a single dish to full recovery + 20 bonus hearts; 2- Go to the castle, loot weapons, ignore enemies, warp outside; 3- Buy arrows.
@rushiosan I agree… and the worst thing is that enemies are just hit sponges. They don’t add difficulty to harder enemies by changing the strategy of how you defeat them… they only make them harder by “uhhh let’s make this one take 20 hearts with a single hit!”
Which at the end of the day you just use any of your 30 meals to recover, and recover and recover ad nauseum.
I miss the days when you needed to find the strategy of how to beat certain enemies with specific items…. Not just dodge and hit them with whatever crappy sword you just fused.
And, as you said, the economy is terrible. Should I waste all these meals and weapons to defeat a Lynel that will give me …. Wow, a crappy ingredient and a weapon that I already had?
At least in older Zelda’s you got a key to advance or an important dungeon item, or a heart container.
The BotW/TotK economy sucks
@Varkster wow it's almost like other people have different opinions or something
@TenEighty Weapon Degradation <----- Making games annoying. Not a fan.
No kidding they've should've made a feature where players can fixup or restore damaged weapons back. Because with the game we are collecting resources and items so why not use some of those for that repair purpose.
@solarwolf07 Then how do you explain away every other adventure and rpg that has a variety of weapons for you to use? It's a pretty poor excuse. -_-
When have you ever heard anyone say, Wow, I got some new gear! I can't wait for it to be completely destroyed after 8-10 uses! No one says that. And most weapons aren't ammo. Even then, ammo for guns and bows can be replenished and the gun or bow doesn't crumble into dust the moment the player runs out.
Zelda has encouraged multiple weapons use since the first game. The vast majority of adventures and rpgs have allowed you to find, purchase, or be gifted new gear for decades. If a few pieces of gear is breakable there are blacksmiths to fix it up for you.
Everyone who defends and claims to love weapon degrading has got to be trolling.
@Switch_Pro @Bass_X0 Well said
@Tempestryke seriously your calling people who dont mind the weapon degrading trolls man salty much.
@RiasGremory I am. Because their excuses don't make a lick of sense
1) "Weapons breaking is realistic."-No its not. Weapons have outlasted their owners for centuries.
2) "We don't play Zelda for realism."-Then why did you say that weapons breaking that quickly is realistic?
3) "If weapons don't break, it won't encourage you to use other weapons man!"-Most adventure and rpg games do encourage it,through purchase, treasure chests, and in-game moments, including Zelda.
4) "If weapons weren't breakable, it would ruin the game."- Keeping your weapons has never ruined any other game.
You can't tell me they're arguing in good faith and not actively messing with people, when they conveniently ignore every other game in existence that doesn't rely on crappy weapon degrading mechanics, and will frequently move goalposts.
Inflation is caused when the central bank cartels print money to feed socialist causes and devalue actual time and work.
@Tempestryke
sorry for not hating a game's weapon system... I'll think twice next time i express my opinion under an opinion article...
Also, I apologize for ruining your day with a 7 month old comment about a video game you don't HAVE to play...
???
@Tempestryke nintendo is allowed to shake the zelda formula up abit reason why zelda is going to be open world for now on and weapons breaking as well so if you dont like it then dont play it simple as that instead of attacking others on liking the weapon breaking system.
A well made, real life, steel sword can last many generations, and survive many battles.
Whoever makes the weapons in Hyrule, are terrible at their job.
Imagine buying a hammer, that break after just one day of work.
No matter how many times this article is republished, weapon degradation is still the worst part of BotW. 😛 It's part of the reason I never bought TotK. Just my opinion obviously, but it really just made the game less fun for me and I don't have the energy to revisit it even if TotK has tweaked the formula.
If monster hunter rise had weapons etc. that would degrade themselfes over time, the game had real unlimited replay value !!! already told capcom that, sadly my real monsmode didnt get reality. But still can be ! On the horns now !
I like weapon degradation.
Weapon degradation makes you care about your stuff more.
I like the way weapon degradation was implemented.
Skyward sword should be played in hero mode solely. I've always said it but a lot of its systems actually click when in hero mode. Money is one of them. All of a sudden crafting is important, potions matter and thus money matters. It's not perfect mainly because stuff is not as expensive as it should be but it really significantly makes steps in the right direction.
Economy is indeed fixed in BotW and made even better in TotK, even though some have said they have gone a little too hard on the money problem and have made the game to grindy. I don't really agree with that since I think the problem is only there if you want to upgrade everything 100% which I think is not necessary and the game has been designed for you to make choices in how you upgrade your sets and what to upgrade because it suits your needs and/or your playstyle. And it is not an issue in the game either : all enemies are beatable without fully upgraded armors and all situations are possible to overcome without perfect equipment. The game simply wasn't designed with the idea that you should upgrade everything and that's fine. In fact it even makes it better. That way it's got builds that you have to choose from. It's got options and it becomes replayable.
That being said I think the article is too harsh with Majora's Mask. That game is the first to really cleverly solve the money issue. Like for Skyward Sword it's not perfect but it's way better than what was before. Resetting money at each cycle effectively solves the issue. The game is not impossible but hard enough so that you might want to upgrade your sword before going against a boss. Money matters when you reset it to zero every hour of playtime. Of course there is the bank. But it's not like it cancels the efforts of this game to solve the economy problem. First you need to realise that the bank is even there. Which is not necessarily something that would happen from the get go in your first playthrough. In fact nothing indicates that the bank exists. You need to go look for it. Second, oftentimes you will just forget to place your money at the bank or find yourself in a situation where you can't and lose all the precious content of your wallet. And last but not least, the bank is a system in itself. It actually serves another purpose. Saving money there unlocks other stuff so it entices the player NOT to use that money. All of these combined effectively fixes a good part of the zelda economy, especially to first time players. We have a tendency to review games based on our multiple playthroughs but let's not forget our precious first times with each of these adventures.
I hundred percent agree with the text in its entirety. I liked the breakable items in BOTW and I liked them in TOTK. It challenge the player to new horizons, to explore and to change their ways of thinking playing.
@Steel76 you do realize real life weapons can shatter too especially swords during battles.
@RiasGremory
Sure, but a well made sword, would survive many battles, compared to how easily they break in Zelda.
They would get blunt, and needed sharpening, of course.
I'd rather see a feature like that in Zelda, when you can sharpen and keep using the better swords.
Old rusty, or badly made, weapons, would fall apart quickly though, just like in the game.
Weapon degradation's always been awful. There's no challenge added because you're still continually tripping over great weapons all the time, the only purpose is to make the experience more tedious.
“The weapon degradation system came from a place of well-intentioned design”
I thought they stole it from Story of Thor?
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