Wonder Boy - Asha In Monster World Director Explains Why He Chose That Divisive 2.5D Art Style

Honestly, I think it looks great. Don't get why the art style is divisive but that might just be me.

@tanaka2687
Same, I think it looks pretty great and unique.

What somebody needs to explain to me is why a wonderboy game stars a girl? Shouldn't it be wonder girl?

Either way looks great to me! It's like She's the original Shantae!

@tanaka2687 @NintendoKnight Same here guys. It looks gorgeous to me!

I love the style they went with also, and am looking forward this. One thing I found odd is, he said they didn't have amazing artists for 2D. How did they make the Wonderboy remake then? That game was gorgeous too.

I think it's fair for them to say not every studio has amazing 2d artists to hand and 3d is easier and more flexible. We can't expect Lizard Cube to do every remake.

It would have been interesting to talk to a studio back when they were struggling in the early days of 3d and tell them that soon it would be more difficult to go back to 2d production. There are a lot more development tools for 3d work now, I suppose. Maybe there ought to be some work on more tools for 2d development again? Like in this example, if the director wants to change the lighting of a scene surely there could be a shader that could update the sprites without having to completely re-draw them? Perhaps something similar to the lighting effects in Octopath Traveller could work.

Aside from the fact the game can be good anyway, to sum it up what Nishizawa-sensei says is that there were not good enough 2D artists in the team and that it was cheaper to do it this way. We gotta give it to him: the man is honest.

I do like the visuals, unfortunately, with that pony tail, all I can think of is Shantae.

The main fault of the remake here, if you can call it that, seems to be subverting the expectations of a fanbase that has come to expect a series of remakes made using 2D graphics. I agree with the developer that 3D development is ultimately easier as mistakes are easier to correct, and the fine-tuning process is loads easier. The price to pay is that a hand-drawn 2D game in the style of the previous remakes or Cuphead, just to give a few examples, has a very distinct style to it that is inevitably lost in the transition to 3D no matter how much polish is put into the graphics.

I was rewatching some gameplay footage for the previous games and I think this game is especially lacking in the backgrounds for the actual levels. It seems to me that they are made with set pieces that are copy-pasted and look reptitive as a result, in stark contrast with the meticulous detail put in the backdrops for the two previous games. I think that is the main area of improvement that can be worked upon for this game, as the art style looks fine in the more cinematic locations, and the expressions of the character seems to be about as good as they can get for a 3D game (without a huge budget).

I wished the digital release included the original version.

I will only complain if it plays like a pig. Sounds like Journo's trying to find a story where there isn't one.

Luckily I'm long past childish bias against CG stuff, but my bias towards 2D will follow me into the grave. The explanation here is common knowledge and it would be absolutely unfair to chastise the team for picking the tech according to their capabilities. But a lot of what he describes here also makes for the results that help 2D animation remain unique and irreplaceable to this day, all while CGI, especially in feature movies, still takes twice the effort and resources in some aspects for all the economy thereof in others. Water, hair, clothes - you name it. But yes, stuff like camera work and easier dynamic tweaks throughout the production are among CGI's comparative perks alright.

In the end, neither tech can ever replace the other whereas merging them is a historically more fertile ground. Asha in Monster World looks fine (and its visuals by no means undo the 2D charm you can always revisit in the original), but so do games like Cuphead, The Little Acre and Forgotton Anne. I hope to keep living in the world that has enough room for both. Even "local" disasters like Hollywood's mid-2000s kneejerk should never happen again.

Sooo... This is Shantae before Shantae, and without the that thing about transformation both franchises do...?

@Zeldafan79 i honestly think it wouldn't sell as much if it was called wonder girl. Guys might be put off by the title imo. Looks amazing though

@Zeldafan79 Actually yes - because the original title of the game does not say Wonder Boy at all, in Japan, the Mega Drive game is simply called "Monster World IV".

So...outsource it to Wayforward? I mean this is obvious that 3D games take less time to animate than 2D games but really it feels lifeless a lot of the times and takes away the feel of the 2D game entirely.

@tanaka2687

The first Trailer looked REALLY unpolished and soulless.
The second one was much nicer.

Ordered a Copy yesterday.
I really like Games like those and i can actually spend Time inbetween the Time Devourers to play through them

@dugan Just search for Monster World IV and see which was possibly inspired by which.

It's not as gorgeous as Dragon's Trap obviously, but it doesn't look bad. And let's be honest, the art style was Dragon's Trap's main appeal, gameplay aged rather badly.

I'd still buy it. The question is should I sacrifice some of the stimulus money to get the Mega Collector's Edition, or go basic for that Genesis Version of Monster World IV? I have it on the Genesis Mini, but that's what drives me to ask.

@The_Pixel_King @NintendoKnight @tanaka2687

Comparing the current trailer to the reveal, you can see they polished the game up as expected. The original trailer had inconsistent animation and a choppy frame rate. Those issues more than anything are what I think led to the concerns about the visuals. Now that the animation is better, I think it makes a better impression.

While I generally prefer 2D and pixel art at this point, I'm not against 3D done in this style and I think it looks quite good. The original trailer had a variable, choppy frame rate and some inconsistent animation, so many of the concerns stemmed from that. They have definitely improved things since then. I always appreciate Mr. Nishizawa's straightforward approach whenever he makes statements like this. I get the impression he's straight with people, which I appreciate.

@Luoti-Lasse Thank you for the info! I did not know that! As someone who loves the game play and humor of Shantae, this looks like something I would like.

Mine to day one!

Asha is a girl!
I really hate the fact that this game is called "Wonder Boy" when the protagonist is literally a girl, i prefer the title "Monster World"

Why does everyone keep calling 3D sidescrollers 2.5D? Because it doesn't take as long to type? I don't think I've ever seen 2.5D described for any other genre, including other fixed camera angle games like Spider-Man Friend or Foe or the remake of Link's Awakening.

I think the visuals look great! You can do a lot worse when updating classic pixel art to 3D (Secret of Mana on PC for example) or to modern 2D (Final Fantasy 6 on PC for example)

@Zeldafan79 @Chibi_Manny I think it's because "Wonder Boy" is the established title by now, like how Zelda's name appears in almost every game Link is in even when Zelda herself is not part of the story. It's pretty dumb to be quite honest, but that's the industry for ya. Even so, I don't remember this being a problem for Enix when they started calling the Dragon Warrior series by its original Japanese name Dragon Quest.

@DrDaisy Its a holdover from the 32-bit era, I'll always call 2D games with 3D backgrounds 2.5D games. BUG (this and Klonoa fit the description better) and Clockwork Knight on the Saturn back in 1995 were my first ones.

As a fan of sprites and 2.5D games, I am actually glad they went this route as it distinguishes itself from the other recent games in the series even if it doesn't look quite as good. It'll still look good years from now though because of its simplicity.

Besides, the gorgeous sprite-based original will be on the cartridge in all its glory for alternative play throughs.

@TurboTEF I don't have any issues with the style or gameplay, although I hope the soundtrack is more diverse and there's an optional English dub if there are speaking voices in the game. I've played several 3D sidescrollers over the years including Klonoa, Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards, the Pandemonium games, and Mischief Makers (a game that I feel actually deserves the 2.5D label since it mixes 2D characters and objects with 3D stages) and quite enjoyed them. Well, Mischief Makers and Klonoa anyway. I not so sure about the Pandemonium or Kirby 64, although the multiplayer mini-games in the latter were a blast to play with friends.

Octopath still is my favs when it comes to using pixels in a 3D background. The game looked gorgeous.

What's the problem, it looks great!

@Lapses 3D is not easier nor more flexible; it is actually limited in a number of ways compared to 2d art; 2d art can get away with implied detail that just doesn't work in 3d without major trickery. 3d is also far less forgiving than 2d, which is why this game is actually decisive; its super janky looking 3d with a lot of really bad animation and not enough done to match the 2D concept art one to one. The 2d target art here is also just not as good as some of the original 2d promo/concept art for MW4, henceforth the 3d versions are worse because they're targeting worse 2d art. 3D is maybe cheaper but only because of that perception that its less valuable; I'm guessing they hired desperate 3d artists who where willing to work for less because 3d artists in general have their labor devalued and declared less worthy than 2d artists, ergo they are exploited more often. A lot of people, especially older people like the game's director, have unreasonable expectations for turnover rates on 3d art; they like you think its "easier" so it must take less time when the opposite is true: a 2d artist can just draw a background like the castle sequence in this game. But since its 3d every prop and character is its own project that takes as much time if not more than an entire illustration.

The reality here is that the game could have looked a lot better in 3d, it is possible to have character models that match the l old concept art for the Genesis game almost one to one and to use nicer rendering techniques and more skilled animators to create a game that wouldn't look janky and disappointing like this. The director is an old guy who doesn't understand 3d, thinks its less valuable and he's likely mismanaging the project.

What's the issue in the first place? Personally, I prefer it when 2D games series are upgraded to 3D graphics (at least once we got past the early days of the 32/64 bit generation). Nobody was really complaining when 2D Mario, Donkey Kong, and Kirby platformers made that jump, were they? Does anyone want the "Street Fighter" series to go back to 2D graphics?

@DrDaisy "2.5D" comes from the fact that the games have 2D gameplay with 3D graphics. It just wouldn't make sense to describe them as purely either 2D or 3D games.

It's not just platformers either but any genre with side-view 2D gameplay including 2D fighters and most SHMUPs. (While top-down games like the "Link's Awakening" remake could technically also be described that way, it's less common due to those games appearing like they have pseudo-3D gameplay, anyway).

I'll never understand the thought process that "3D is cheaper". It may be cheaper to correct, yes (since if you have old art, you have to redo it, recolor it, etc.). But, the workload of a 2D game compared to a 3D one aren't one and the same. You can draw a ton of imagery in 2D in a short time without even touching a single polygon, spline or z-axis.

Each piece in a 3D game is its very own project and the game itself looks fine if I'm being quite honest. I really think it's bad to downplay or undervalue 3D when most great games today from companies we all know and love ARE 3D. Not every platformer needs to be pixel or hand-drawn... :/